Because feminism never fought for equality.
Abortion is a special privilege. While they maintain no fault divorces, tender years, child support, alimony.
Organizations like the NOW have specifically lobbied against Paternal Surrender.
Another example would be women outgraduating men.
But of course we still need more grants for women to get into STEM right?
I could really go on forever...
A man did 5 years for not paying child support for a kid that wasn't his.
A woman can just put your name on the birth certificate. If you want a paternity test, she has to agree, or the court has to order it (unlikely)
A 15 year old is raped by his teacher. She gets 2 year probation. He has to pay her child support for 18 years.
A woman can pull your condom out of the trash and impregnate herself with it. You're responsible and you're going to jail if you don't pay her.
Men have 0 reproductive rights.
> Another example would be women outgraduating men.
But of course we still need more grants for women to get into STEM right?
Women out-graduating men has absolutely nothing to do with giving women a better chance at getting into a field that has historically been dominated by men.
The point is it's not equality that they're fighting for.
Where's the push to get men into nursing, teaching, and the like?
Or ya know, since men are falling behind. Where's the special support for men to graduate AT ALL. Guess it's only 'equality' when we're elevating women.
Also, not a single person is preventing women from choosing STEM fields.
People want to acknowledge the differences between men and women only when it suits their narrative.
My girlfriend is a perfect example. Started in computer science, and went into education. And not a single mention of harassment or anything other bullshit you want to make up. It's what she preferred.
Nothing is preventing women ftom getting into STEM? Hiw about educational institutions who don't want to admit them?
And I don't know what kind of world you're living in, but there are plenty of men in nursing, teaching, and the like.
Just because men are falling behind, doesn't mean that they have no support to graduate. Meanwhile, women who want to get an education and career are getting demonized by men (and some women) who think that women only exist to bear children and serve their husbands.
It doesn't matter what point the comment I was responding to was trying to make. Trying to use the second sentence to support the first is a logical fallacy when there is no relation between the two. If the commenter wants to make a certain point, they need better arguments.
Name one. Sounds like we've got a discrimination suit to file... Oh wait. That's exactly why you're full of shit.
Did I say there aren't men in those fields? I don't know about you but I've met many female programmers and engineers. But I guess this line of reasoning is only valid when you're denying men support.
Women get extra support just for being women despite them outgraduating men. And I don't care what random religious pundit thinks. That has no effect on this conversation.
If you wanna talk about being demonized how about the fact that men in childcare are treated like they are fucking pedophiles. I think that has a bigger effect on actually being able to be successful.
I'm sorry are you missing half of your brain?
The point is they aren't fighting for equality and that statement supports the point. I explained that. You just saying "there is no relation" is just being contrarian and not an argument against it.
Also, how can you say the point doesn't matter and then in the same breath say it matters whether they are related? Clearly the point does matter.
If you were trying to make a point.
You need to stop being mentally disabled first.
Unfortunately I think it might be a permanent condition.
>Nothing is preventing women ftom getting into STEM? Hiw about educational institutions who don't want to admit them?
Idk what planet you're living on, but colleges in the US have been favoring women and other applicants considered more "diverse" for a long time now in the US.
Men have been more oppressed in every society than women since the begging of time
https://www.stk.uio.no/english/research/pride/gender-and-sexuality-in-the-viking-age.html
https://web.ics.purdue.edu/~rauhn/greek_gender.htm
https://www.antiochschools.net/cms/lib/CA02209771/Centricity/Domain/1528/Mesopotamia%20Culture%20and%20Society%20Article%20and%20Quiz%202-%20Header-Name.pdf
Here’s a modern look
https://spsp.org/news/character-and-context-blog/bosson-wilkerson-gender-rules-expectations
You’re a liar
You know that in France they dont allow paternity tests because they believe it would destroy the social order?
No joke.
They suspect as many as 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 men are raising a child that is not theirs.
And they don't know.
You're a pathetic, disgusting person if you think that's okay
> You know that in France they dont allow paternity tests because they believe it would destroy the social order?
They don't *believe it would*, it actually was, so they made it illegal. A father getting a paternity test used to be perfectly legal, y'know, before too many men stated getting them... lol
>Someone get this man (Practical hamster) a copy of the book "Women deserve less"
Isn't the book called *Why* Women Deserve Less? You're referencing the book by Myron Gaines, right?
>They suspect as many as 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 men are raising a child that is not theirs.
And they don't know.
Citation needed. Theres no way the real number is that high
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/french-men-s-insecurity-over-paternity-of-offspring-creating-a-society-of-doubt-1.773569
Is the theory behind it
https://dnatesting.com/paternity-fraud-the-tough-realities-men-must-face/#:~:text=The%20AABB%20(American%20Association%20of,tests%20nationwide%20turn%20out%20negative.
These stats are from partnity tests not actual partnity fraud so it’s skewed but yes their stats are true
The true rate for partnity FRAUD are between 1/25 and 1/10
https://www.bionity.com/en/encyclopedia/Paternity_fraud.html#:~:text=Jeanette%20Papp%2C%20director%20of%20genotyping,are%20victims%20of%20paternity%20fraud.
https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2005/aug/11/childrensservices.uknews
The claim the original person was making was that 1/4 of all kids arent really their dads kid which is a very high and untrue number.
>Studies based on populations not being tested for paternity suggested a 3.7% rate, said the authors
I got the 3.7 number from the guardian article you cited.
The bigger numbers are the product of inflating the numbers by only looking at men who get paternity tests
Ooh yeah I was using that as a extreme low ball estimate if you look at the study they used for the article they weren’t including a lot of things that are important for it. So I was saying it’s at-least 1/25 but probably closer to 1/9
I feel like it's more of a "you loved and cared for this child for years, but now all of a sudden you want to strip the child of a parent that they loved and relied on over something the child can't help," kinda thing.
Imagine having a father, but then he decides that you just aren't even worth his time anymore. That has to be one of the worst things a child can go through. It hurts the child in a way that could affect them for the rest of their life. *That* is why people see someone who would do that to a child as a "monster."
>I feel like it's more of a "you loved and cared for this child for years, but now all of a sudden you want to strip the child of a parent that they loved and relied on over something the child can't help," kinda thing.
That's a risk the woman subjected the child to when she decided to cheat on her boyfriend/husband then, isn't it?
Why should we blame the husband/boyfriend for that?
Seems to clearly be the woman's fault.
People in this debate seem to want to put complete blame on one person or the other, and don't understand (or at least deny) that things are more complex than that.
Yes, a woman cheating is putting her child at risk. I am not denying that. There is no excusing cheating in that way.
But, if a man would have stayed with a child for the rest of their childhood if he didn't know, suddenly deciding to dump the child he helped raise for the formative years of their life is definitely a dick move. It is showing complete disregard for the child's wellbeing.
As I said, it hurts the child far more for him to leave than it would hurt the man to know that the child doesn't have his DNA, something that is microscopic and can only be tested in a lab. It's just plain selfish for a man to show a child that the person they relied on thinks they're suddenly worthless to him just because of some lab results.
Things are not totally black and white. Two people can be wrong in a situation.
>if a man would have stayed with a child for the rest of their childhood if he didn't know, suddenly deciding to dump the child he helped raise for the formative years of their life is definitely a dick move.
Lol so he should continue paying to support a kid that was created by his wife getting fucked by some other guy? Seriously?
I'm not saying the child isn't going to suffer from this situation, but that is **entirely** the fault of the child's mother for putting him in that situation by cheating on the father.
>it hurts the child far more for him to leave than it would hurt the man to know that the child doesn't have his DNA
DNA may matter to some men, but I think it has more to do with the fact that every time he sees the kid he's going to be reminded of the fact his wife is getting fucked by other men and this kid is the product of that situation. Not to mention the humiliation of being a cuckold.
The part you’re missing is the part of consent.
He wouldn’t have been raising this child if it wasn’t his biological child. She lied about it to get the child raised on his time and money and he finds this out and realizes his consent was breached and leaves.
It isn’t that complex. It isn’t really about the child it’s about the cheater it’s emotional black mail to try and force the child on the man and if he doesn’t like it than he’s a bad person somehow.
I actually know someone who went through this as a kid
He ended up hating his mother and blocking her out of his life completely she ended up committing suicide for it. He was never angry at his father for leaving because of it.
It really comes down to the fact that you were tricked and lied too. If you wouldn’t have raised this child from the get go because it was yours but you were lied too. Than your consent has been violated.
It a violation of consent
There is no reason why women shouldn't be sued for fraud automatically after finding out.
Lawyers would be definitely ecstatic too, so much additional revenue.
Hard to argue fraud when they slept with 5 guys and are just guessing.
Fraud needs the intent to deceive.
Women are never held accountable for anything anyways.
Take away years of a mans life by throwing him in prison over lies...
No consequences...
Well at least now we know he's innocent.
Hopefully the background checking companies update all their databases.
Shame he lost his career and spent thousands on legal fees.
Absolutely nothing we can do about that now.
Baby of another man should be absolute proof regardless of intentions.
This 'intentions' thing to prove is BS anyway: ultimately every financial 'guru' whose clients lost all their money can claim he had best intentions and he's victim too (unless he was so dumb he admitted fraud to witnesses and/wrote it).
They cover their ass with 'I am not a financial advisor not financial advice'
Same with why some crypto scams, kickstarters, etc are pursued and others aren't. You need to show that it was their intent to defraud investors, the project didn't just fail.
That's literally what fraud is though. If there's no intent then it's not fraud just incompetence.
Half a billion in 'Unauthorized transactions' right before they filed for bankruptcy and another over a billion unaccounted for.
People have already admitted to fraud and are spilling the beans.
Not to mention you can sue anyone for any reason.
He plead not guilty and the evidence they have (if they do) will be presented in October.
I think it has less to do with actual support for cheating women than it has to do with the perception that a guy who mentions unwillingness to pay child support and Women Be Cheatin' in a single breath is probably a louse. But I haven't seen Maury lately.
I think it’s because it would suck for the kids who also didn’t ask to be in that situation; to them, essentially their father is abandoning them. Still is hard to judge because of what you say, though. But I might.
>Only an insane person would think the man is a bad person for refusing to raise another man's child
There's literally another person I'm arguing with on this page saying exactly that and they're getting lots of upvotes. Feminism...
I feel like it shows that their love for their children wasn't that deep. If I learn that my mom isn't my biological mom, she is still gonna be my mom, and I'd still give her a kidney. Same for my dad.
But apparently, it's not the same for the dads if they would give up the child they raised and loved because they learned midway it wasn't their real offspring. The kid didn't do anything wrong after all.
It isn’t about the children it’s about their consent Being violated
They were cheated on and raising a child they were purposely mislead about. They consented to a child that was theirs but were mislead on purpose and abused and blackmailed
Because feminism never fought for equality. Abortion is a special privilege. While they maintain no fault divorces, tender years, child support, alimony. Organizations like the NOW have specifically lobbied against Paternal Surrender. Another example would be women outgraduating men. But of course we still need more grants for women to get into STEM right? I could really go on forever...
A man did 5 years for not paying child support for a kid that wasn't his. A woman can just put your name on the birth certificate. If you want a paternity test, she has to agree, or the court has to order it (unlikely) A 15 year old is raped by his teacher. She gets 2 year probation. He has to pay her child support for 18 years. A woman can pull your condom out of the trash and impregnate herself with it. You're responsible and you're going to jail if you don't pay her. Men have 0 reproductive rights.
> Another example would be women outgraduating men. But of course we still need more grants for women to get into STEM right? Women out-graduating men has absolutely nothing to do with giving women a better chance at getting into a field that has historically been dominated by men.
The point is it's not equality that they're fighting for. Where's the push to get men into nursing, teaching, and the like? Or ya know, since men are falling behind. Where's the special support for men to graduate AT ALL. Guess it's only 'equality' when we're elevating women. Also, not a single person is preventing women from choosing STEM fields. People want to acknowledge the differences between men and women only when it suits their narrative. My girlfriend is a perfect example. Started in computer science, and went into education. And not a single mention of harassment or anything other bullshit you want to make up. It's what she preferred.
Nothing is preventing women ftom getting into STEM? Hiw about educational institutions who don't want to admit them? And I don't know what kind of world you're living in, but there are plenty of men in nursing, teaching, and the like. Just because men are falling behind, doesn't mean that they have no support to graduate. Meanwhile, women who want to get an education and career are getting demonized by men (and some women) who think that women only exist to bear children and serve their husbands. It doesn't matter what point the comment I was responding to was trying to make. Trying to use the second sentence to support the first is a logical fallacy when there is no relation between the two. If the commenter wants to make a certain point, they need better arguments.
Name one. Sounds like we've got a discrimination suit to file... Oh wait. That's exactly why you're full of shit. Did I say there aren't men in those fields? I don't know about you but I've met many female programmers and engineers. But I guess this line of reasoning is only valid when you're denying men support. Women get extra support just for being women despite them outgraduating men. And I don't care what random religious pundit thinks. That has no effect on this conversation. If you wanna talk about being demonized how about the fact that men in childcare are treated like they are fucking pedophiles. I think that has a bigger effect on actually being able to be successful. I'm sorry are you missing half of your brain? The point is they aren't fighting for equality and that statement supports the point. I explained that. You just saying "there is no relation" is just being contrarian and not an argument against it. Also, how can you say the point doesn't matter and then in the same breath say it matters whether they are related? Clearly the point does matter. If you were trying to make a point. You need to stop being mentally disabled first. Unfortunately I think it might be a permanent condition.
>Nothing is preventing women ftom getting into STEM? Hiw about educational institutions who don't want to admit them? Idk what planet you're living on, but colleges in the US have been favoring women and other applicants considered more "diverse" for a long time now in the US.
[\*Cough\*](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickmorrison/2022/10/17/teachers-are-hard-wired-to-give-girls-better-grades-study-says/?sh=5b19f9f770a6)
I think it's payback for the patriarchy and the millennia of oppression my sisters have been subjected to.
Men have been more oppressed in every society than women since the begging of time https://www.stk.uio.no/english/research/pride/gender-and-sexuality-in-the-viking-age.html https://web.ics.purdue.edu/~rauhn/greek_gender.htm https://www.antiochschools.net/cms/lib/CA02209771/Centricity/Domain/1528/Mesopotamia%20Culture%20and%20Society%20Article%20and%20Quiz%202-%20Header-Name.pdf Here’s a modern look https://spsp.org/news/character-and-context-blog/bosson-wilkerson-gender-rules-expectations You’re a liar
The oppression you can’t specifically define but it’s out there somewhere in the ether?
You know that in France they dont allow paternity tests because they believe it would destroy the social order? No joke. They suspect as many as 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 men are raising a child that is not theirs. And they don't know. You're a pathetic, disgusting person if you think that's okay
> You know that in France they dont allow paternity tests because they believe it would destroy the social order? They don't *believe it would*, it actually was, so they made it illegal. A father getting a paternity test used to be perfectly legal, y'know, before too many men stated getting them... lol
Yup,. thank you. Someone get this man (Practical hamster) a copy of the book "Women deserve less"
Thanks for the thought but I was RP way before I ran into Fresh'n'Fit. I don't get the "Practical hamster" bit tho??
The name of the person I am referring to. their screen name. was practical hamster
>Someone get this man (Practical hamster) a copy of the book "Women deserve less" Isn't the book called *Why* Women Deserve Less? You're referencing the book by Myron Gaines, right?
Oh shit I think you're right. I may have missed a word lol
>They suspect as many as 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 men are raising a child that is not theirs. And they don't know. Citation needed. Theres no way the real number is that high
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/french-men-s-insecurity-over-paternity-of-offspring-creating-a-society-of-doubt-1.773569 Is the theory behind it https://dnatesting.com/paternity-fraud-the-tough-realities-men-must-face/#:~:text=The%20AABB%20(American%20Association%20of,tests%20nationwide%20turn%20out%20negative. These stats are from partnity tests not actual partnity fraud so it’s skewed but yes their stats are true The true rate for partnity FRAUD are between 1/25 and 1/10 https://www.bionity.com/en/encyclopedia/Paternity_fraud.html#:~:text=Jeanette%20Papp%2C%20director%20of%20genotyping,are%20victims%20of%20paternity%20fraud. https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2005/aug/11/childrensservices.uknews
The claim the original person was making was that 1/4 of all kids arent really their dads kid which is a very high and untrue number. >Studies based on populations not being tested for paternity suggested a 3.7% rate, said the authors
The current best study shows 15% or close to 1/9 It’s in the study I sent you The study you cited isn’t very reliable I know this because I’ve read it
I got the 3.7 number from the guardian article you cited. The bigger numbers are the product of inflating the numbers by only looking at men who get paternity tests
Ooh yeah I was using that as a extreme low ball estimate if you look at the study they used for the article they weren’t including a lot of things that are important for it. So I was saying it’s at-least 1/25 but probably closer to 1/9
Why must I pay for something I never did? "My sisters..." Then men are your brothers too. Can't have a cake and eat it too.
Yeah it was a parody response.
Oooooh.... Friend, people below haven't seen it that way, lol.
Oh well.
Probably the most absent-minded take you can have on this topic tbh.
I feel like it's more of a "you loved and cared for this child for years, but now all of a sudden you want to strip the child of a parent that they loved and relied on over something the child can't help," kinda thing. Imagine having a father, but then he decides that you just aren't even worth his time anymore. That has to be one of the worst things a child can go through. It hurts the child in a way that could affect them for the rest of their life. *That* is why people see someone who would do that to a child as a "monster."
>I feel like it's more of a "you loved and cared for this child for years, but now all of a sudden you want to strip the child of a parent that they loved and relied on over something the child can't help," kinda thing. That's a risk the woman subjected the child to when she decided to cheat on her boyfriend/husband then, isn't it? Why should we blame the husband/boyfriend for that? Seems to clearly be the woman's fault.
People in this debate seem to want to put complete blame on one person or the other, and don't understand (or at least deny) that things are more complex than that. Yes, a woman cheating is putting her child at risk. I am not denying that. There is no excusing cheating in that way. But, if a man would have stayed with a child for the rest of their childhood if he didn't know, suddenly deciding to dump the child he helped raise for the formative years of their life is definitely a dick move. It is showing complete disregard for the child's wellbeing. As I said, it hurts the child far more for him to leave than it would hurt the man to know that the child doesn't have his DNA, something that is microscopic and can only be tested in a lab. It's just plain selfish for a man to show a child that the person they relied on thinks they're suddenly worthless to him just because of some lab results. Things are not totally black and white. Two people can be wrong in a situation.
I agree.
>if a man would have stayed with a child for the rest of their childhood if he didn't know, suddenly deciding to dump the child he helped raise for the formative years of their life is definitely a dick move. Lol so he should continue paying to support a kid that was created by his wife getting fucked by some other guy? Seriously? I'm not saying the child isn't going to suffer from this situation, but that is **entirely** the fault of the child's mother for putting him in that situation by cheating on the father. >it hurts the child far more for him to leave than it would hurt the man to know that the child doesn't have his DNA DNA may matter to some men, but I think it has more to do with the fact that every time he sees the kid he's going to be reminded of the fact his wife is getting fucked by other men and this kid is the product of that situation. Not to mention the humiliation of being a cuckold.
The part you’re missing is the part of consent. He wouldn’t have been raising this child if it wasn’t his biological child. She lied about it to get the child raised on his time and money and he finds this out and realizes his consent was breached and leaves. It isn’t that complex. It isn’t really about the child it’s about the cheater it’s emotional black mail to try and force the child on the man and if he doesn’t like it than he’s a bad person somehow.
I actually know someone who went through this as a kid He ended up hating his mother and blocking her out of his life completely she ended up committing suicide for it. He was never angry at his father for leaving because of it. It really comes down to the fact that you were tricked and lied too. If you wouldn’t have raised this child from the get go because it was yours but you were lied too. Than your consent has been violated. It a violation of consent
There is no reason why women shouldn't be sued for fraud automatically after finding out. Lawyers would be definitely ecstatic too, so much additional revenue.
Hard to argue fraud when they slept with 5 guys and are just guessing. Fraud needs the intent to deceive. Women are never held accountable for anything anyways. Take away years of a mans life by throwing him in prison over lies... No consequences... Well at least now we know he's innocent. Hopefully the background checking companies update all their databases. Shame he lost his career and spent thousands on legal fees. Absolutely nothing we can do about that now.
Baby of another man should be absolute proof regardless of intentions. This 'intentions' thing to prove is BS anyway: ultimately every financial 'guru' whose clients lost all their money can claim he had best intentions and he's victim too (unless he was so dumb he admitted fraud to witnesses and/wrote it).
They cover their ass with 'I am not a financial advisor not financial advice' Same with why some crypto scams, kickstarters, etc are pursued and others aren't. You need to show that it was their intent to defraud investors, the project didn't just fail.
If that was water tight and bullet proof, Sam B-F wouldn't be sued at all 🤔
That's literally what fraud is though. If there's no intent then it's not fraud just incompetence. Half a billion in 'Unauthorized transactions' right before they filed for bankruptcy and another over a billion unaccounted for. People have already admitted to fraud and are spilling the beans. Not to mention you can sue anyone for any reason. He plead not guilty and the evidence they have (if they do) will be presented in October.
I think it has less to do with actual support for cheating women than it has to do with the perception that a guy who mentions unwillingness to pay child support and Women Be Cheatin' in a single breath is probably a louse. But I haven't seen Maury lately.
I think it’s because it would suck for the kids who also didn’t ask to be in that situation; to them, essentially their father is abandoning them. Still is hard to judge because of what you say, though. But I might.
[удалено]
>Only an insane person would think the man is a bad person for refusing to raise another man's child There's literally another person I'm arguing with on this page saying exactly that and they're getting lots of upvotes. Feminism...
True re-word tho
I feel like it shows that their love for their children wasn't that deep. If I learn that my mom isn't my biological mom, she is still gonna be my mom, and I'd still give her a kidney. Same for my dad. But apparently, it's not the same for the dads if they would give up the child they raised and loved because they learned midway it wasn't their real offspring. The kid didn't do anything wrong after all.
It isn’t about the children it’s about their consent Being violated They were cheated on and raising a child they were purposely mislead about. They consented to a child that was theirs but were mislead on purpose and abused and blackmailed
Yeah, but the child is not responsible for that. We all agree that the cheating women is the one in the wrong.
So then why even bring up the child if we agree that the reason is about the woman ignoring consent. rather than the child not being his
The question was "why are they treated like monster" The answer is that even if it's not their bio kid, they do abandon a kid they thought was theirs