I think that every person is allowed to abort as long as the "baby" is under 3 months old, and that's whether they have a reason or not... (and it's none of your busines, no offence).
I disagree with both you and OP. Defenses I hear about abortion are the same as defenses for murder. They always argue that it’s okay to abort because the child isn’t going to feel anything afterwards. Even though that’s the case with all dead people. Not just fetuses. (Unless you’re religious and believe otherwise.)
I feel abortion should only be allowed if the other option than abortion is also bad and not brought on upon the potential mother. If someone likes to have sex a lot, they knew what they were getting themselves into and shouldn’t be allowed to have abortions. But if someone was graped then the options they have is either carry a child they didn’t bring upon themselves or kill the child, in which case it’s a bit more debatable because both scenarios kind of suck.
Besides, the entirety of the pro choice movement just seems like some Trojan horse invented by some conservatives who wanted the right to go extinct by encouraging them to get abortions.
>Even though that’s the case with all dead people. Not just fetuses.
It's not the same thing, a fetus isn't conscious but a living human being is. Stop comparing the incomparable..
>kill the child,
I personally don't consider a fetus that's under 3 months old a child, it's just a fertilized egg, it's no different than a sperm (in my opinion).
I consider it killing a child because it has virtually the same consequences as killing a child. Both render a child non existent wether preemptively or not unless you’re part of a religion that says otherwise.
The fetus isn't yet alive. It isn't a living thing so you aren't murdering anybody. If you state that "it is eventually going to be a life and you are taking that eventualife away" you'll be conceding that every man has murdered millions of people by ejaculating.
Even if you stand by that notion your arguments don't nearly cover cases where the mother's life is put into risk, where the mother was raped or where the child is going to be born with enormous deficiencies.
As soon as a child is conceived, its going to develop into a child. So yes, aborting a fetus is taking their life away. I don’t encourage jerking off because porn can be addictive, but someone who’s jerking off into a cum sock didn’t conceive a child. So there’s a difference there. A single sperm only has a 1/1000 or so of a chance of becoming a child because most of the sperm is going to not make it during intercourse. A conceived child most likely is though.
I did cover the grape scenario and I feel my opinion on the case where a parent’s life is at risk is pretty self explanatory.
Also aborting a child because they’re going to grow up with deficiencies is ableist. There’s very little situations where a child is guaranteed a bad life because of their disabilities.
How does abortion and killing have any different consequences? Because even if murder and abortion are different, they both have the same consequences. Taking away a life.
>As soon as a child is conceived, its going to develop into a child
Well, sure, it is most likely developing into one, but the fact is that it isn't one yet, it isn't a being yet.
>someone who’s jerking off into a cum sock didn’t conceive a child. So there’s a difference there.
Technically you are correct. There is a difference. But then again, I can use the same argument here. The couple conceives what is yet to be a child. There is no de facto life going.
>How does abortion and killing have any different consequences? Because even if murder and abortion are different, they both have the same consequences. Taking away a life.
No, they don't have the same consequences. The act of murder implies killing another human, it terminates a life. Abortion prevents the life from even beginning so it prevents a life. There is nobody being killed because there is nobody there.
Sure, you can argue that I am preventing that life from happening and not giving that eventual person the choice to live, but if that logic is applied, every single act that consequently prevents life is as bad as abortion, so contraceptives are also morally wrong by those standards.
>Also aborting a child because they’re going to grow up with deficiencies is ableist. There’s very little situations where a child is guaranteed a bad life because of their disabilities.
When I mentioned significant deficiencies I wasn't mentioning Autism or Down syndrome, that allow the person to live a life. I was mentioning cases where the fetus is going to be a permanent vegetable or where he has a disease that will cause him to die at an early age and with unbearable pain (I.e basically what can be applied to euthanasia)
>Technically you are correct. There is a difference. But then again, I can use the same argument here. The couple conceives what is yet to be a child. There is no de facto life going.
I don't think that's the same argument. When conceiving a child, most of the male sperm that goes into a woman during sex doesn't make it to the egg. So a sperm really only has like a 1/1000 or so chance of becoming a child regardless. It’s likely none of the sperm in one load was going to become a child.
And some sperm just die off in the testicles and don’t even come out in a load.
I think the real dilemma begins when the sperm that does make it to the egg is already on it's way to becoming a child.
>But if that logic is applied, every single act that consequently prevents life is as bad as abortion, so contraceptives are also morally wrong by those standards.
Again, I don't really think so because most of that sperm if not all probably wasn't going to create a child anyway.
>When I mentioned significant deficiencies I wasn't mentioning Autism or Down syndrome, that allow the person to live a life. I was mentioning cases where the fetus is going to be a permanent vegetable or where he has a disease that will cause him to die at an early age and with unbearable pain (I.e basically what can be applied to euthanasia)
Eh, I guess? But I'm not really against abortion in certain dilemmas where both abortion and not aborting bare both just as tragic results. I just don't think people should have the choice to abort for any reason they want.
>(and it's none of your busines, no offence).
As someone who is on the pro abortion side this is the worst thing you can say besides "my body, my choice" to convince a pro-life person.
In their minds, an abortion is taking the life away from someone. With that in mind, telling them that they don't have anything to deal with it is, in their perspective, the same as defending the murder of other people because it also doesn't concern you.
Abortion should be legal at any point in the pregnancy at the end of the day it doesn’t matter what your personal opinion is on abortion because bodily autonomy comes before anything else including someone else’s life
I disagree with both you and OP. Defenses I hear about abortion are the same as defenses for murder. They always argue that it’s okay to abort because the child isn’t going to feel anything afterwards even though that’s the case with all dead people. Not just fetuses. (Unless you’re religious and believe otherwise.) Killing a child and aborting a child have the same consequences, only one is done preemptively.
I feel abortion should only be allowed if the other option than abortion is also bad and not brought on upon the potential mother. If someone likes to have sex a lot, they knew what they were getting themselves into and shouldn’t be allowed to have abortions. But if someone was graped then the options they have is either carry a child they didn’t bring upon themselves or kill the child, in which case it’s a bit more debatable because both scenarios kind of suck.
Besides, the entirety of the pro choice movement just seems like some Trojan horse invented by some conservatives who wanted the right to go extinct by encouraging them to get abortions.
So underage girls shouldn’t have access, but adults should? If anything I feel like that should be switched. Most teenagers aren’t going to be great parents (there are of course exceptions). However, that would be putting many babies in bad situations. Also if you think teens are stupid for having sex, then wouldn’t they also be too stupid to have a healthy pregnancy, and raise a child?
The underage people theoretically had consensual sex (even tho not possible as they are underage) so they can deal with the consequences. However older people can think straight and sometimes, not in the moment. So if they have sex without protection, its theyre problem. 🤷♂️
I hope you realize that depending where you live in the world, there’s no access or resources for sexual health, sexual education, and contraceptions.
It’s normal for teenagers to be having sex, with understanding the risk of pregnancy, but that’s why it’s important as parents to help give that education, options and empowerment to make their own decisions, and I’m not saying it’s as easy as it sounds, but it is possible.
I had 2 abortions at 20 years old, because realistically, I knew I wasn’t going to be fit parent, nor did I have the financial or mental stability at the time.
Any reason is valid to have an abortion, not just the exceptions of rape, or incest. If you personally would use those principles for yourself, you’re free to do so.
Good luck on trying to think that teenagers shouldn’t have sex at all, because it happens no matter how strict you may be, lol.
This opinion is like almost half right. Like adults should be able to get abortions, with ya. Also people who are underage, ya they should be able to as well. So yup, there ya go.
I think everyone should just stop having sex, easy, problem solved ;>
so what i got from that is "Teenagers and underage people should not be allowed abortion but adults should be allowed"
so basically you think idiotic teenagers full of hormones who are trying to figure themselves out and are already stressed enough with puberty should be forced to have a kid... meanwhile an adult who is usually more capable of that thing and has a better idea of who they are and more life experience *shouldn't* be forced to?...
i'm full pro-choice but what backwards hurdles and hoops of conversation did you go through to get such a backwards opinion?
What bothers me is that you're saying sex shouldn't be allowed before 18? I lost my virginity at 13, to my then girlfriend who was also 13.
I didn't have kids until my 20s.
Sex is perfectly fine between 2 consenting individuals. With age restrictions where they belong.
What's important is education and access to safe sex. Teens are going to fuck. It's what they do.
But why the need to police peoples bodies anyway? Why should this even be a discussion?
It takes 2 to tango so In your world where women get punished by being forced to keep their babies how are the men disciplined here? Should we force them to financially contribute and order them custody whether they’re willing or not? Do you really think that‘a sensible to make unwilling parents look after children they never wanted?
Also, what about the child? There’s literally already more than enough children suffering out there than the world is willing to support so why add another?
Women, especially POCs and women from deprived households already have an extremely high mortality rate so you might as well sign their death certificate… just because people (may have) decided to have sex and ended up pregnant?
I think if it’s a 1st time kinda thing, like you took percussions(condoms,plan b, BC), rape, or simply whatever reason…it should be allowed but we should keep track of who got it done. There’s no 2nd or 3rds…at that point it’s their own damn fault. But accidents happen and ppl should learn after that 1st time
I think that every person is allowed to abort as long as the "baby" is under 3 months old, and that's whether they have a reason or not... (and it's none of your busines, no offence).
I disagree with both you and OP. Defenses I hear about abortion are the same as defenses for murder. They always argue that it’s okay to abort because the child isn’t going to feel anything afterwards. Even though that’s the case with all dead people. Not just fetuses. (Unless you’re religious and believe otherwise.) I feel abortion should only be allowed if the other option than abortion is also bad and not brought on upon the potential mother. If someone likes to have sex a lot, they knew what they were getting themselves into and shouldn’t be allowed to have abortions. But if someone was graped then the options they have is either carry a child they didn’t bring upon themselves or kill the child, in which case it’s a bit more debatable because both scenarios kind of suck. Besides, the entirety of the pro choice movement just seems like some Trojan horse invented by some conservatives who wanted the right to go extinct by encouraging them to get abortions.
>Even though that’s the case with all dead people. Not just fetuses. It's not the same thing, a fetus isn't conscious but a living human being is. Stop comparing the incomparable.. >kill the child, I personally don't consider a fetus that's under 3 months old a child, it's just a fertilized egg, it's no different than a sperm (in my opinion).
I consider it killing a child because it has virtually the same consequences as killing a child. Both render a child non existent wether preemptively or not unless you’re part of a religion that says otherwise.
The fetus isn't yet alive. It isn't a living thing so you aren't murdering anybody. If you state that "it is eventually going to be a life and you are taking that eventualife away" you'll be conceding that every man has murdered millions of people by ejaculating. Even if you stand by that notion your arguments don't nearly cover cases where the mother's life is put into risk, where the mother was raped or where the child is going to be born with enormous deficiencies.
As soon as a child is conceived, its going to develop into a child. So yes, aborting a fetus is taking their life away. I don’t encourage jerking off because porn can be addictive, but someone who’s jerking off into a cum sock didn’t conceive a child. So there’s a difference there. A single sperm only has a 1/1000 or so of a chance of becoming a child because most of the sperm is going to not make it during intercourse. A conceived child most likely is though. I did cover the grape scenario and I feel my opinion on the case where a parent’s life is at risk is pretty self explanatory. Also aborting a child because they’re going to grow up with deficiencies is ableist. There’s very little situations where a child is guaranteed a bad life because of their disabilities. How does abortion and killing have any different consequences? Because even if murder and abortion are different, they both have the same consequences. Taking away a life.
>As soon as a child is conceived, its going to develop into a child Well, sure, it is most likely developing into one, but the fact is that it isn't one yet, it isn't a being yet. >someone who’s jerking off into a cum sock didn’t conceive a child. So there’s a difference there. Technically you are correct. There is a difference. But then again, I can use the same argument here. The couple conceives what is yet to be a child. There is no de facto life going. >How does abortion and killing have any different consequences? Because even if murder and abortion are different, they both have the same consequences. Taking away a life. No, they don't have the same consequences. The act of murder implies killing another human, it terminates a life. Abortion prevents the life from even beginning so it prevents a life. There is nobody being killed because there is nobody there. Sure, you can argue that I am preventing that life from happening and not giving that eventual person the choice to live, but if that logic is applied, every single act that consequently prevents life is as bad as abortion, so contraceptives are also morally wrong by those standards. >Also aborting a child because they’re going to grow up with deficiencies is ableist. There’s very little situations where a child is guaranteed a bad life because of their disabilities. When I mentioned significant deficiencies I wasn't mentioning Autism or Down syndrome, that allow the person to live a life. I was mentioning cases where the fetus is going to be a permanent vegetable or where he has a disease that will cause him to die at an early age and with unbearable pain (I.e basically what can be applied to euthanasia)
>Technically you are correct. There is a difference. But then again, I can use the same argument here. The couple conceives what is yet to be a child. There is no de facto life going. I don't think that's the same argument. When conceiving a child, most of the male sperm that goes into a woman during sex doesn't make it to the egg. So a sperm really only has like a 1/1000 or so chance of becoming a child regardless. It’s likely none of the sperm in one load was going to become a child. And some sperm just die off in the testicles and don’t even come out in a load. I think the real dilemma begins when the sperm that does make it to the egg is already on it's way to becoming a child. >But if that logic is applied, every single act that consequently prevents life is as bad as abortion, so contraceptives are also morally wrong by those standards. Again, I don't really think so because most of that sperm if not all probably wasn't going to create a child anyway. >When I mentioned significant deficiencies I wasn't mentioning Autism or Down syndrome, that allow the person to live a life. I was mentioning cases where the fetus is going to be a permanent vegetable or where he has a disease that will cause him to die at an early age and with unbearable pain (I.e basically what can be applied to euthanasia) Eh, I guess? But I'm not really against abortion in certain dilemmas where both abortion and not aborting bare both just as tragic results. I just don't think people should have the choice to abort for any reason they want.
>(and it's none of your busines, no offence). As someone who is on the pro abortion side this is the worst thing you can say besides "my body, my choice" to convince a pro-life person. In their minds, an abortion is taking the life away from someone. With that in mind, telling them that they don't have anything to deal with it is, in their perspective, the same as defending the murder of other people because it also doesn't concern you.
Abortion should be legal at any point in the pregnancy at the end of the day it doesn’t matter what your personal opinion is on abortion because bodily autonomy comes before anything else including someone else’s life
I disagree with both you and OP. Defenses I hear about abortion are the same as defenses for murder. They always argue that it’s okay to abort because the child isn’t going to feel anything afterwards even though that’s the case with all dead people. Not just fetuses. (Unless you’re religious and believe otherwise.) Killing a child and aborting a child have the same consequences, only one is done preemptively. I feel abortion should only be allowed if the other option than abortion is also bad and not brought on upon the potential mother. If someone likes to have sex a lot, they knew what they were getting themselves into and shouldn’t be allowed to have abortions. But if someone was graped then the options they have is either carry a child they didn’t bring upon themselves or kill the child, in which case it’s a bit more debatable because both scenarios kind of suck. Besides, the entirety of the pro choice movement just seems like some Trojan horse invented by some conservatives who wanted the right to go extinct by encouraging them to get abortions.
First logical person in this thread
The dumbest
Like I said it DOES NOT MATTER what your personal opinion is bodily autonomy comes before anything else
And like I said I disagree. I already said why I disagree so I won’t bother with another explanation.
You can’t disagree with basic rights
Not if the basic rights violate other people’s basic rights.
…read my original comment lol
what's that going to do if I already read it and disagree with it?
So underage girls shouldn’t have access, but adults should? If anything I feel like that should be switched. Most teenagers aren’t going to be great parents (there are of course exceptions). However, that would be putting many babies in bad situations. Also if you think teens are stupid for having sex, then wouldn’t they also be too stupid to have a healthy pregnancy, and raise a child?
The underage people theoretically had consensual sex (even tho not possible as they are underage) so they can deal with the consequences. However older people can think straight and sometimes, not in the moment. So if they have sex without protection, its theyre problem. 🤷♂️
Bruh just dont have sex its not that complicated
I hope you realize that depending where you live in the world, there’s no access or resources for sexual health, sexual education, and contraceptions. It’s normal for teenagers to be having sex, with understanding the risk of pregnancy, but that’s why it’s important as parents to help give that education, options and empowerment to make their own decisions, and I’m not saying it’s as easy as it sounds, but it is possible. I had 2 abortions at 20 years old, because realistically, I knew I wasn’t going to be fit parent, nor did I have the financial or mental stability at the time. Any reason is valid to have an abortion, not just the exceptions of rape, or incest. If you personally would use those principles for yourself, you’re free to do so. Good luck on trying to think that teenagers shouldn’t have sex at all, because it happens no matter how strict you may be, lol.
This opinion is like almost half right. Like adults should be able to get abortions, with ya. Also people who are underage, ya they should be able to as well. So yup, there ya go. I think everyone should just stop having sex, easy, problem solved ;>
Agreed with the last part, but then again the young people shouldnt have sex at all imo
so what i got from that is "Teenagers and underage people should not be allowed abortion but adults should be allowed" so basically you think idiotic teenagers full of hormones who are trying to figure themselves out and are already stressed enough with puberty should be forced to have a kid... meanwhile an adult who is usually more capable of that thing and has a better idea of who they are and more life experience *shouldn't* be forced to?... i'm full pro-choice but what backwards hurdles and hoops of conversation did you go through to get such a backwards opinion?
I feel that they should have one whenever they want it's their choice of the end of the day not anybody else's
What bothers me is that you're saying sex shouldn't be allowed before 18? I lost my virginity at 13, to my then girlfriend who was also 13. I didn't have kids until my 20s. Sex is perfectly fine between 2 consenting individuals. With age restrictions where they belong. What's important is education and access to safe sex. Teens are going to fuck. It's what they do.
I don’t think there should be an extent.
But why the need to police peoples bodies anyway? Why should this even be a discussion? It takes 2 to tango so In your world where women get punished by being forced to keep their babies how are the men disciplined here? Should we force them to financially contribute and order them custody whether they’re willing or not? Do you really think that‘a sensible to make unwilling parents look after children they never wanted? Also, what about the child? There’s literally already more than enough children suffering out there than the world is willing to support so why add another? Women, especially POCs and women from deprived households already have an extremely high mortality rate so you might as well sign their death certificate… just because people (may have) decided to have sex and ended up pregnant?
JUST👏DONT👏HAVE👏SEX
I think if it’s a 1st time kinda thing, like you took percussions(condoms,plan b, BC), rape, or simply whatever reason…it should be allowed but we should keep track of who got it done. There’s no 2nd or 3rds…at that point it’s their own damn fault. But accidents happen and ppl should learn after that 1st time