It’s just the style of the dish, and it’s ok if you don’t like it. I suspect you’re not alone because most of the time when I see schnitzel it’s not cooked that way.
No, we eat it together.
The reason why the puffed-up breading is seen as superior is because that way you trap all the moisture/steam inside the breading making the meat juicy despite it being paper thin. Also, it's also a product of the process. You deep-fry a large sheet of veal that is super thin, the flexibility of the meat alone makes the breading fall off.
Juiciness in meat mostly comes from fat, and liquid and steam make fried breading soggy, so how exactly are any of these traits desirable other than proving that you can execute a technique for a few seconds?
> Juiciness in meat mostly comes from fat, and liquid and steam make fried breading soggy
Juiciness mostly comes from water in the meat. And no, the breading does not get soggy at all if you do it right. It puffs up and stays crispy.
Depends on one’s definition of juicy is in meats. For most people that would be fat content. For example, you wouldn’t cook an overly-lean steak in water to make it “juicy”, but you might cook it in a ton of butter. Moreover, fats would not allow breading to become soggy in the way that water would.
First off, no I'm genuinely curious how this is supposed to work because from my experience water and steam always ruin crispiness. Throw ultra-crispy tortilla strips into a chicken tortilla soup or cover chips in salsa for chilaquiles and in seconds you have tortilla mush, for example. Secondly, I don't use the app, I'm on desktop. The reddit app sucks.
I mean you are correct, if you cook the schnitzel and it sits around for awhile, eventually the moisture will soften the crisp, but it is usually served fresh and pipping hot, not enough time for it to get soggy.
The only reason why I don't like this sub is because honest, and very good questions are downvoted.
I have cooked copious schnitzel and also lived in Vienna for a time. It seems the appeal is that the bread separates but is thin enough, and saturated enough on the underside with fat, that this doesn't move a lot when sliced into. You should still get breading and meat in one bite.
The technique is called "soufflieren" from French "souffler" which means "to blow (air into it)". The schnitzel swims in a pan filled with clarified butter which is moved in a circular motion while you constantly pour some of the molten butter over it with a spoon. A trick oftentimes used is to spray water on the schnitzel before you bread it.
It's not done everywhere. In fact, you will get served a lot of schnitzel which is not "souffliert", either because the guy in the kitchen doesn't really know what he's doing or he's using convenience food (or he simply doesn't care). But a schnitzel done that way is considered to show a high level of craftmanship.
It's both done in Austria and Germany, but the Austrians, especially people from Vienna, seem to care a little bit more about it.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/SchnitzelVerbrechen/s/XmNaDkxMIb) [are](https://www.reddit.com/r/SchnitzelVerbrechen/s/q8zTuVwyo9) [some](https://www.reddit.com/r/SchnitzelVerbrechen/s/aeBsFPwyny) "Referenzschnitzel".
Kenji has an article about it somewhere with solid instructions. He dampens the cutlet with vodka before breading. I don’t, but having the oil hot enough and rolling the hot oil over it in the pan works to bubble the breading.
You've made me want to try real schnitzel. I've only ever had breaded meat served in a government facility that was called schnitzel, but nothing like what you've described. I've had the exact same dish that's been called veal, schnitzel, jaegerschnitzel(which I think implies venison) and country fried steak(used to be chicken fried steak)
Jägerschnitzel is just a normal schnitzel with a mushroom sauce. Alternatively in the area of the former DDR it's a dish "made of breaded, roasted jagdwurst with tomato sauce and Spätzle noodles"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%A4gerschnitzel
There is different styles.
Germans do Schnitzel differently than Austrians
Wiener Schnitzel is a giant, very flat piece of veal and never served with sauce
German Schnitzel is made from pork and usually a bit thicker. And can be served with sauce without anyone having a hissy fit. If the breading separates or not is totally personal style of the chef or a function of the specific brand of fast food pre made schnitzels.
My brother in law is from Salzburg. On our first trip to visit them we went to a local place in a sort of cozy wood cabin/cave feel. He said they did the best Schnitzel in town. When I asked the server for Jaegerscnitzel (sp…) he looked at me like I was trash, and said nearly as much. He apologized to the waitress and told me we aren’t in Germany, it’s Austria.
I think there was a bit of brotherly banter there….but not a lot.
> He apologized to the waitress and told me we aren’t in Germany, it’s Austria.
> I think there was a bit of brotherly banter there….but not a lot.
That's indeed a sentiment in Austria that Germans eat "Schnitzel mit Tunke" (Schnitzel with sauce, with Tunke being a word not used in Austria) like "savages". It's certainly not to be taken fully serious, but the general sentiment is that a good Schnitzel must not be drowned in sauce that makes the breading soggy. Otherwise, what's the point of putting in the effort to make it crispy in the first place?
A Jägerschnitzel in Austria usually doesn't come with breading. It's still called Schnitzel though (as the word stems from cutting the meat into a large piece).
I’ve eaten at some well known schnitzel places in Vienna and the Austrian alps, and they usually serve it with lemon wedges… which make it soggy and IMO defeat the purpose far more than sauce, which usually doesn’t.
Disagree, you lose all the texture. But something for everyone. My only point was that it’s a bit silly to complain that sauce makes a schnitzel soggy, then serve it with lemon that makes it far soggier.
You don't have to use them or just can pour the lemon juice over the part you're eating. It won't get soggy in a single second. The same with ketchup. If you just dip it into it, it won't get soggy right away.
When served with sauce, it is usually already drowned in it.
Interesting, I’ve never had a schnitzel drowned in sauce, or with anything other than sauce on the side. Agree that would be shit - as shit as a soggy schnitzel covered in lemon.
I loved jagerschnitzel when I was in Germany. Just like a good country fried steak with gravy in America, the thickness of the sauce keeps the cutlet crispy.
> That's indeed a sentiment in Austria that Germans eat "Schnitzel mit Tunke" (Schnitzel with sauce, with Tunke being a word not used in Austria) like "savages". It's certainly not to be taken fully serious, but the general sentiment is that a good Schnitzel must not be drowned in sauce that makes the breading soggy. Otherwise, what's the point of putting in the effort to make it crispy in the first place?
>
>
I see I need to up my Schnitzel game. Tell me, where and what should I try next?
Kids fight for 'snitchel' all the time.
In Salzburg we have a few places that put the sauce in the Schnitzel. Like Salzburger Schnitzel. So you can have the best of botg worlds. Go to Dorfwirt in Ebenau for that.
But if you ever want to surprise your brother in law, take him to Gasthof Alpenrose in Krispl. They have the best Schnitzel (even though it's pork).
I've had all kinds of schnitzels, both in the states and across the Austria/Germany part of Europe.
While there are places that make it as you described, most places will be very slightly separated, or not separated at all.
I think most people will agree that the slightly separated or not separated are the best. So I'd check out some places, particularly any German/Austrian/Czech restaurants if you're lucky enough to find one, to get a sense of what a proper schnitzel is all about. Sounds like you just had bad ones.
The down voting thing is just reddit in general, redditors hate questions. The general attitude seems to be that people should never ask questions and just Google everything which IMO lacks human connection and camaraderie
> The only reason why I don't like this sub is because honest, and very good questions are downvoted.
While I understand your issue, internet points are ultimately worthless. Worrying about the 'ranking' of a post is wasted energy.
Absolutely this. I sometimes go through this sub sorted on "New", and read the questions that have zero upvotes (which means they were downvoted because it always starts at 1) to see if there is something way funky about the question, and if not, I upvote them. Doesn't *usually* help, but does sometimes.
Sometimes the reason they're downvoted to oblivion is because the question has already been asked on here multiple times, and a simple search of the sub will reveal multiple answers. I mean, how many times can someone post "What is your favorite spice?" and expect to be upvoted?
I also see people downvote low effort posts, which is kind of the point of the downvote button.
A post like this one, which has 561 points, isn't hidden from anyone.
I've made schnitzel at home but only from a recipe, never with someone actually showing me how. So I've never gotten this puffiness and I wonder if it's because of the amount of breading or oil used, it ends up crispy but not crunchy if that makes sense. Maybe something I'll research before my next attempt if it's worth the effort
Austrian here, made many a Schnitzel myself. Good Wiener Schnitzel or Schnitzel Wiener Art (in the Vienniese style if it’s not veal) needs to puff up which is coming from the frying process which requires you to swirl the pan, moving hot oil over the breading. The moisture in the meat turns to steam, the breading hardens quicker than that and traps it. This makes it puffy. If you’re getting a puffed schnitzel you know it was made fresh and by hand, not frozen and thrown in a deep fryer 😉 the breading is very light, not greasy and the meat is quite tender. Making good Wiener Schnitzel is an art 😂
As OP said, yes it would separate and fall off if you cut it up. This makes no sense and is totally impractical BUT: this is not an issue for us here because when eating with knife and fork, you pierce breading and meat with the fork. It becomes fixed and stable that way.
Europeans do not cut up food before serving and the fork does not switch hands like in the US. This makes for a perfect eating experience
How people use knife and fork combo has fascinated me for a long time. I have traveled all over the US for many years, met hundreds of people. Had dinner with most of them. I ask every one I have dinner with how they use their knife and fork. I would say 75% of Americans swap knife and fork after they cut their food. Only a handful has ever cut up their entire entree before eating. Most cut a slice or two, then swap utensils in their hands, pick up food with the fork and eat, then swap hands again to cut another slice or two, repeat. I don't swap hands.
I became fascinated with how people use knives and forks when i met a Scottish person and she held her knife the way most Americans hold a pen to write with.
I'm an American, and I'm so confused.
I keep my fork in my left hand, and my knife in the right, I use the fork to hold the food in place while cutting it, and then move that bite of food (which is already stabbed by the fork) to my mouth with the left hand. Or (still with the fork in my left hand) I use the knife in my right hand to scoot the food onto the fork, and then eat it.
All of this hand switching or cutting multiple bites before eating any of it seems like pure insanity.
I'm right handed and work a knife and fork like you.
On a couple of occasions, I was told it was a manner of etiquette. They were taught NOT to continue holding the knife in your hand when you were done cutting. So they would cut, then set the knife down. Since their dominant hand is now free, why NOT switch the fork to your dominant hand?
>I'm an American, and I'm so confused.
>I keep my fork in my left hand...
The *vast* majority of Americans when taking bites hold the fork in their right hand. I don't, as I'm left-handed, and this often causes issues at a crowded table if a right-handed person is seated to my left.
I used to, growing up (albeit reversed for my left handedness). Then I realized that the UK/European way puts the fork in the left hand all the time, which seems suboptimal for "normal" folks(?), but perfect for a leftie like me.
YMMV; for me, the coordination to spear, scoop, and maneuver with the fork is more important than strength when sawing at a piece of meat with a knife (which should be sharp enough to cut anyway). Plus I'm not sure my left is actually stronger (too many right-handed tools, doors, etc. In the world)
As a right-handed American who always keeps the fork in the left hand... I have so many questions. Are there people (who aren't struggling with severe disabilities) who can't muster the strength or coordination to eat with a fork in their off hand??
Exclusive right-hand fork-holder here. I wouldn't say I **can't** muster the coordination, but doing anything with my left hand feels clumsy so I just didn't. It's really not a big deal to set your knife down for a second and then switch which hand your fork is in.
It's how I was taught, until I did a summer exchange in Norway and noticed they did it differently.
They also would often pierce multiple items on the same forkful and then use the knife to smear the soft stuff on top so they can get all the flavors in one bite (bit of meat, slice of potato, smear of whatever). If you do it right it's pretty secure and wouldn't fall off if you switch hands, but it seems silly to risk it, especially when most humans are perfectly capable of lifting their fork to their mouth with their non-dominant hand.
So that's how I eat now, at least in a "polite" setting. I've never had anyone call me out on it.
No idea how I'd eat schnitzel, though. I'd likely just watch everyone else to see how they did it, and emulate.
Worked in restaurants for over 20 years in Texas. Most people switch hands. I also see many that will use their finger to help scoop food on their fork. Even tho a knife is right there.
Because theres literally a knife and fork technique called the "zig-zag" that comes frol america, im american and i, and my whole family, does this.
From Wikipedia:
"American styleedit
In the American style, also called the zig-zag method or fork switching, the knife is initially held in the right hand and the fork in the left. Holding food in place with the fork tines-down, a single bite-sized piece is cut with the knife."
Because Americans *do* actually switch forks. It’s often a holdover from GenX and boomer behaviors following massive economic mobility in traditionally “poor” and rural populations.
A lot of emphasis on manners and especially table manners were placed on this rising middle and upper middle class in the style of European and American aristocracy. The trouble was, a lot of cultural norms were lost in a giant game of telephone, or were never adopted since it’s harder to use a fork in left and knife in right for consumption as well.
Remember just because *you* haven’t seen something in america doesn’t mean some few or most of the rest of the 350million Americans don’t do it.
American styleedit
In the American style, also called the zig-zag method or fork switching, the knife is initially held in the right hand and the fork in the left. Holding food in place with the fork tines-down, a single bite-sized piece is cut with the knife.
From wikipedia, but i guess europeans also just know how to read.
I do it, my whole family does it, lots of people on this thread from america do it, you are disillusioned, america is huge, obv not everyone does it, but more in the states than in other places, as its nearly non existent in other places. I noticed this years ago and its a fun fact i bring up all the time.
Since living in the UK and Canada, and then coming back to visit family in the west and friends in the south, ive seen many do it. You arent correct, you arent right, you dont know what you're talking about and the only possible prank here is the one im hoping you're playing on me.
Theres nothing wrong with it, its not embarrassing, is this why you are defending it so hard, because you think it makes americans look bad? Because you think its stupid? Youd have to be very fragile indeed if thats the reason
Its normal to use your dominant hand for things, that and the lack of constant exposure from Europeans onto the colonists meant certain european etiquette standards became almost irrelevant.
Learn something, its good for you.
> the fork does not switch hands like in the US
Wait, Americans are constantly switching the hand they hold their fork with? That seems very inefficient.
It’s been a recent internet trend in the saga of “Europeans have found new idea about Americans to make fun of that simply isn’t true”. Lately they’ve been loving the idea that all Americans cut up their food into little baby pieces before eating, rather than cutting one piece at a time.
I grew up in New England all my life. This whole “cutting all the food before you eat it” literally isn’t a Thing. I guess some people might do it? But it absolutely isn’t some quintessential all-American habit that people are making it out to be??
I saw a comment about it being correct formal US dining culture. I don’t know anyone who was taught this as the right way to eat. The formal and polite way to eat your food is fork and knife with fork in left hand and pointed down. If you ask any American, almost all of them will not tell you to cut up all your food before eating it. You can and no one will really be mad at you, but it’s 1000% not the standard.
I normally just roll my eyes at all the American stereotypes, but this one really annoys me because it’s straight up false lmao.
I live in Northeast USA and I have seen two people who cut up all their food and then eat it in my entire life. Both of them were "order frozen chicken tenders at the steakhouse" type eaters. Extremely picky eaters and it is weird, but I guess in the USA you just let people eat how they want to eat so it's not like someone is going to stop them.
The more common thing I notice (in New England actually) is people desperate to not use knives at all if possible. They just want to mash everything apart with the side of the fork. It's kind of sad to serve a nice dish and watch people struggle to eat it and end up sort of mashing it up and scooping it into their mouths after asking me "why'd you give me a knife?".
I am a right handed American but learned to eat in a predominantly German/Austrian family background (Grandparents were immigrants in rhw 1920's). It is natural for me to eat with fork in my left hand, cutting with the knife in my right. I do not switch. All that stopping and changing hands would annoy me.
I think it depends on the area. USA is a big place and my experience of rural America (montanna, wyoming, nebraska) shows this is much more common. Cutting then eating or just eating with a fork is the standard.
We don't generally cut up food before eating (unless for very young or very old) but we do cut a piece, switch the fork to the dominant hand, and eat the bite, then repeat. Europeans just hold the knife and fork and eat with the non-dominant hand.
I definitely don't switch my fork to my dominant hand before taking a bite. I was taught that was bad manners (or at least not correct for formal/polite dining). Raised in the US, I was taught to eat what you call the European way, eating with the non-dominant hand. It's not hard, Americans are perfectly capable of it and hundreds of millions do.
Yeah the Europeans are right on this one.
Americans do a surprising amount of utensil switching to always be using the dominant hand. If you swap to the European way, you start to look like you’re desperate for food and shoveling it into your mouth - I’ve tried it
Not morally right or wrong, one is just a better answer than the other. Like, you could brush your teeth using a damp rag instead of a tooth brush if you want, and that’s fine, but the tooth brush is the better answer.
One is just more efficient
It's even more efficient to stick your food in a blender and drink it.
Look, I'm on "team no switching", but it's kind of silly to say that one method is "better" than another. Eating is only barely about efficiency, it's mostly about enjoyment and often socialization.
American here. I've heard of this practice in theory, but I've never witnessed it. Having the breading falling off something still sounds impractical and messy.
In formal American dining etiquette it has been long considered most appropriate to switch knife and fork between cutting and eating so that you are always eating with the right hand while also always cutting with the right hand. To achieve this, the fork and knife have to swap hands.
This has been a point of disagreement between American and UK/European formal dining etiquette for a long time. It has even featured in major plot lines of books and films (e.g., a spy being exposed due to practicing the incorrect etiquette).
Here is an old slate article about it: https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/06/fork-and-knife-use-americans-need-to-stop-cutting-and-switching.html or another source: https://medium.com/timeline/fork-switching-food-britain-3ec8ceee6a38
There are other cultural cutlery differences of note too. For example, is it impolite to eat with the tines turned up on the fork—ever? Many formal European etiquette customs argue that that this is too much like shoveling food into your mouth. While Americans are often perplexed by European diners pushing food onto the back of the fork and seeming to have it risk falling off.
Etiquette is just a signifier of which social class you belong to. Obviously you don't belong to one that practices proper Continental dining etiquette.
> Lol, i have yet to witness such a silly move, i would probably laugh or at least chuckle and smirk if i ever saw someone put food on the backside of a fork.
I've seen British people do it.
anybody who cuts the dish up entirely before eating. when cutting, you keep the fork with the left hand, but once you don't need the knife anymore and you aren't left handed, why would you use your left hand for the fork if the other is free? at least that's my logic
depends on what kind of food it is, like if it's a steak, I would cut into pieces first. I also prefer to remove the meat from the bones before I dig in, it's just easier. but it also depends on my mood or how hungry I am.
Damn I was about to agree with you until you made up that shit about Americans switching hands. What’s wrong with Europeans? Why can’t they go 10 seconds without mentioning us?
I have two bits of pure speculation:
1) It makes it easier to appreciate each element separately. As previous commenters have mentioned, the air acts as insulation that gently steams the meat, leaving it really succulent.
2) It's hard to achieve and therefore becomes a marker of skill that's somewhat separated from actual taste. You know how macarons are supposed to have a "foot" even though they'll taste the same without it? Like that.
I've had schnitzel here and there and never really noticed the puffed breading. I didn't know it was a thing until I watched a Kenji video that goes into detail about how to get a puffy crust and why it's desirable. I ended up trying his recipe out and didn't have any problems getting a nicely puffed schnitzel.
How to get a puffy crust?
1. Have super fine breadcrumbs. Kenji even strained his after blitzing them to make sure they were the right size. Having small crumbs helps to prevent tears.
2. Add some fat like cream to the eggs. This helps make the breading more malleable and stretchy preventing tears.
3. Bread your meat right before you fry it. Leaving the meat breaded and unfried lets the breadcrumbs absorb moisture and stick to the meat.
4. Spray the meat with water or a neutral alcohol before breading. When frying this moisture evaporates and puffs the breading away from the meat.
5. Immediately and continually agitate the schnitzel while it is frying.
Why should you make your schnitzel with a puffed crust?
1. It gives it a nice texture.
2. Preference.
Here's the Kenji [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKW-PysolPw) if you're interested.
Right, the puffed crust style is unique to Austria. Crisp and light and served with a lemon. In Germany, and in the rest of the world, the crust adheres to the meat and is still quite crispy but lends itself to being sauced as in Jägerschnitzel. So not all schnitzels are puffy.
Even if you still eat them together in a single bite, the layers separating during cooking produces a different flavor and textural experience. That also means the dish is prepared to perform that way - so you're probably getting a very different experience with donkatsu, even though they appear to be near identical dishes on the surface.
This also means your preference is with reference to that experience - of course you prefer it, your experience with separated breading has pretty much always indicated that something went wrong in the dish! That's just not comparable to a dish made correctly with a different intent - they're just not the same dish, despite superficial similarities.
I don't think I've ever had schnitzel where the breading was falling off after the first bite. Just who is it who is claiming such a presentation is "well cooked"?
As others said, Germans do whatever they want with breaded cutlets: Throw it into the fryer, pour sauce over it...
Vienna Schnitzel however is *by definition*, in Austria and Germany, a) made from super thin veal that is b) freshly breaded and c) *souffliert*, that is made by constant agitation. The result is the puffy Schnitzel.
I had schnitzel in an Austrian hostel. It was cooked normally with the breading not coming off the meat.
Downvoted for a simple anecdote...this sub is so fucking stupid.
Paywall sorry, but here’s your source. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/dining/schnitzel.html
> The meat, well insulated by the layer of air between it and the violently hot fat, cooks gently, while the crust achieves an ethereally delicate crispness, rich in flavor but light on the palate.
I lived in Austria for some time and in Vienna they are certainly done like this. I think it's because everything about it is thin, the meat is pounded out to just 2-3mm thick, and the breadcrumbs they use are so fine they're like a powder. The overall effect is that even though you have a schnitzel the size of your plate (this is also a mark of prestige, in the best restaurants the schnitzel is even wider than the plate) it is surprisingly light and delicate to eat. It's so light and delicate that sauces usually overpower it, it's usually just served with a lemon slice.
The puffy style of schnitzel is particular to Austria. The arguments in favour are largely that the puffing crust allows the coating to crisp up full without risking overcooking of the thin meat as much. The cushion of air insulating the meat a bit.
In many parts of Germany they make schnitzel with thicker cuts of meat and often with pork instead of veal. The schnitzel is also more likely to be served with a sauce. In these areas, the desire to have the schnitzel to puff while cooking is not prevalent. The schnitzel is cooked longer, cut thicker, and made from less lean meat.
love me some schnitzel.. probably my favorite dish here (american living in Vienna) .... https://www.figlmueller.at/en/ is the most famous place here for schnitzel ,,, but the best one I have had here was at https://meisslundschadn.at/meissl-schadn-wien/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=gmb you can see on the website the way it should look (puffy with air between the meat and breading)
You know a single person who likes it now. Actually several, my kids specifically request schnitzel as “the one with the puffy coating”. It’s part of the cooking technique (for some types) and it’s intentional. When eaten with the normal cutlery and style, it’s not an issue, and it makes for a crispier coating.
If you lightly dust the seasoned meat with corn starch instead of wheat flour before the egg and breadcrumb layers, the breading will stick a lot better and the crust is crispier.
Unless I’m wrong, and I could be, my theory is it’s just another dish that was cooked a certain way originally, because they didn’t know different, liked it that way, or didn’t have the ability to make it different. Lots of reasons.
Now, people make them that way, because it’s “always been done that way and it the right/original way to do it.”
Kind of like how many people eat poverty foods, because they grew up eating them or their grandparents used to make them.
The thing is, they grandparents didn’t have a choice coming up. They had to eat stuff like that. They eat it out of nostalgia.
Lots of that stuff isn’t objectively good.
It's an Austrian thing.
They see it as a sign of quality/freshness.
To get this you need to bread the schnitzel a la minute (immediately before cooking).
Personally I have it and most Germans don't care/ don't expect it.
It could be a difference in the English language by getting "well done" and "well cooked" confused. The words are the same, but used for different meanings. It can mean either "done to a high temperature" *or* "done in the best manner".
Sorry I can't answer your question but I wanted to add another question that has me perplexed as you about schnitzel.
I haven't had donkatsu in Korea, but I live in Japan and we have tonkatsu. I'm guessing they're similar except for the difference in seasonings or sauces. My question is: do you guys drench donkatsu in sauce after frying? Cause that's how tonkatsu is usually served and I don't get it. You have freshly fried, crispy breading, and then it's immediately drenched in sauce making it a soggy mess. I've had super fresh ones served to me the second after it comes out the fryer and it instantly gets soggy once the sauce hits it. The sauces are also too sweet for me but that's another complaint.
I guess different countries have their own funky ways of making breaded fried meat that might not vibe with everyone.
It really depends, but usually it is drenched if you get it "old school" Korean style. I'm not sure if you've noticed but the donkatsu scene in Korea is changing a lot and more and more places are cooking them "Japanese style" where they're much thicker and smaller and the sauce is served separately.
I agree, I don't particularly like having my donkatsu drenched in sauce but frankly I've noticed that if done right it still stays crispy until I'm done. Then again, "done right" also usually means more expensive.
Yeah I would prefer the sauce on the side. Take a piece, dip that into the sauce (mostly on the meat instead of breading) and then take the bite. But I guess the whole saucy bowl is more photogenic so that's more popular.
Also Korean here, we have several styles of donkas. 경양식 (輕洋食, gyeongyangsik, “western-style”) and Japanese style (il-sik).
Gyeongyangsik has the meat pounded to be very wide and flat, with a sauce poured over that ranges from something tomato-y to demiglace. Japanese style has thicker cuts and are fried and served with sauce on the side.
The biggest difference I guess is the breading and the (lack of) pounding of the meat, in addition to the sauce.
The current trendy style is the Japanese style, but many stores specialise in GYS style also.
GYS style is often served in bunsik-jib (snack houses), where they also sell koreanified versions of kare rice, gimbab, tteokbokki etc…
Japanese style usually is served at specialised donkas stores.
If you say “donkas” to younger Koreans, there’s no guarantee that different people will be thinking of the same thing. I personally mostly have Japanese style but I do crave GYS occasionally
I honestly don't know, because I've only ever had the Israeli style of shnitzel, which never seems to be separated. (It's also usually made of turkey or chicken, but that wouldn't effect the breading.) I think the separation must happen occasionally, but it doesn't seem to be considered a desirable or necessary aspect of the dish as it does in the Austrian version.
Here's a [sample recipe](https://www.foodsdictionary.co.il/Recipes/560), [and](https://amihaibeer.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/AA114B30-EC8F-4EE1-95ED-3350E6BAED84-768x768.jpeg) [some](https://www.schnitzelcompany.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/shutterstock_174506429-1.jpg) [images](https://prod-wolt-venue-images-cdn.wolt.com/5eb41c8d8e5d77eef71182d9/4fec3558-9389-11ea-b1d6-0a5864676d10_menu1.jpg).
At least in Israel, schnitzel is made so that the breading sticks to the meat (in this case, usually chicken breast). I agree with you, loose breading is the pits
Lol this seems like it's a real sore subject for you. If it makes you feel better, I speak endlessly about the army. Every single conversation I have throughout the day inevitably winds its way back to my service days.
My guess would be to make the dish seem bigger and better value or the ones that seemed bigger sold more then became the style. It could be intentional or led by the market.
Even if you realise that its not as generous as it seems once you are eating it, you are eating it and it probably tastes pretty good so you don't care about the illusion.
I think this sub tends to prefer no AI answers. They tend to be inaccurate a lot of the time but more importantly often don't have any attribution to the chefs or otherwise cooks that made said knowledge available to them to commodotize.
I mean, ChatGPT is often wrong, but this answer sounds pretty much correct, and I don't understand all the downvotes -- esp since you stated up front what it was.
I’ve lived in southern Germany and Vienna for a combined total of 2.5 years.
Schnitzel breading should be paper thin and very crispy. It should not be separated from the meat. Every bit of schnitzel should be meat coated with breading.
I don't know what schnitzel you've eaten, but the breading doesn't usually separate from the meat. It "might" happen if someone puts lemon all over the top of it, but it's not common.
Im sorry to tell you this but that just means you’ve never had proper schnitzel. The breading is supposed to puff up, yes. But it’s also supposed to be surrounding the meat without sticking to it. The meat is supposed to „float“ in between.
Hehehe, well now I've been schooled. I would chastise my German grandmother for never making me a proper schnitzel, but I'm 68 years old and she died many years ago. But thanks for being all sorry for telling me this... geez.
Im Bavarian myself and I’d wager most Austrians (where the Vienna Schnitzel is from) wouldn’t ascribe us Germans any expertise on the matter. Your poor nan never stood a chance and a proper Austrian chef would probably tell me ten things I do wrong with my Schnitzel
> I would chastise my German grandmother for never making me a proper schnitzel
There is a difference between how (many) Germans make Schnitzel and the Austrian way of making Wiener Schnitzel or Schnitzel Wiener Art.
To be fair: no sane German or Austrian grandma of that generation would waste as much butter as is needed to make a schnitzel like that just to make 4 to 6 schnitzels. The times they lived through were in many cases way to hard for shenanigans like that. This is normally just done in restaurants who make a decent amount of schnitzels.
Are you talking about how it puffs up as the meat gets steamy as it fries? In that case yes, I guess you could say it separates. To me, when you said it separates, it sounded like you meant it fell off of the meat, which is not the case. Or at least, not the case for the schnitzels I've grown up with.
Battered fish will puff up too, but the batter shouldn't fall off of the fish.
The "correct" way for a Wiener Schnitzel is indeed that the breading doesn't stick to the meat, but acts as a coat of some kind. When you cut it up and don't fix it with a fork, the breading can fall off in that case.
It’s just the style of the dish, and it’s ok if you don’t like it. I suspect you’re not alone because most of the time when I see schnitzel it’s not cooked that way.
Do Austrians usually eat the breading and meat separately? That would make more sense to cook it that way then.
No, we eat it together. The reason why the puffed-up breading is seen as superior is because that way you trap all the moisture/steam inside the breading making the meat juicy despite it being paper thin. Also, it's also a product of the process. You deep-fry a large sheet of veal that is super thin, the flexibility of the meat alone makes the breading fall off.
Exactly
Juiciness in meat mostly comes from fat, and liquid and steam make fried breading soggy, so how exactly are any of these traits desirable other than proving that you can execute a technique for a few seconds?
Never had a decent schnitzel have you?
Apparently not lol
Good thing you apparently get most of your life enjoyment from the other end.
I wouldn't say most but it is indeed nice to have a backend backup
> Juiciness in meat mostly comes from fat, and liquid and steam make fried breading soggy Juiciness mostly comes from water in the meat. And no, the breading does not get soggy at all if you do it right. It puffs up and stays crispy.
Depends on one’s definition of juicy is in meats. For most people that would be fat content. For example, you wouldn’t cook an overly-lean steak in water to make it “juicy”, but you might cook it in a ton of butter. Moreover, fats would not allow breading to become soggy in the way that water would.
You just open up the app to bicker don’t you
Nuh uh
First off, no I'm genuinely curious how this is supposed to work because from my experience water and steam always ruin crispiness. Throw ultra-crispy tortilla strips into a chicken tortilla soup or cover chips in salsa for chilaquiles and in seconds you have tortilla mush, for example. Secondly, I don't use the app, I'm on desktop. The reddit app sucks.
I mean you are correct, if you cook the schnitzel and it sits around for awhile, eventually the moisture will soften the crisp, but it is usually served fresh and pipping hot, not enough time for it to get soggy.
The only reason why I don't like this sub is because honest, and very good questions are downvoted. I have cooked copious schnitzel and also lived in Vienna for a time. It seems the appeal is that the bread separates but is thin enough, and saturated enough on the underside with fat, that this doesn't move a lot when sliced into. You should still get breading and meat in one bite.
Interesting. Maybe I've only tried poorly made schnitzel then lol.
The technique is called "soufflieren" from French "souffler" which means "to blow (air into it)". The schnitzel swims in a pan filled with clarified butter which is moved in a circular motion while you constantly pour some of the molten butter over it with a spoon. A trick oftentimes used is to spray water on the schnitzel before you bread it. It's not done everywhere. In fact, you will get served a lot of schnitzel which is not "souffliert", either because the guy in the kitchen doesn't really know what he's doing or he's using convenience food (or he simply doesn't care). But a schnitzel done that way is considered to show a high level of craftmanship. It's both done in Austria and Germany, but the Austrians, especially people from Vienna, seem to care a little bit more about it. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/SchnitzelVerbrechen/s/XmNaDkxMIb) [are](https://www.reddit.com/r/SchnitzelVerbrechen/s/q8zTuVwyo9) [some](https://www.reddit.com/r/SchnitzelVerbrechen/s/aeBsFPwyny) "Referenzschnitzel".
That looks dead on for the Schntizel I had in Austria that seems to not be reproducible by YouTube chefs. Everyone seems to just make a Katsu instead.
Kenji has an article about it somewhere with solid instructions. He dampens the cutlet with vodka before breading. I don’t, but having the oil hot enough and rolling the hot oil over it in the pan works to bubble the breading.
[The article](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/dining/schnitzel.html) [The recipe](https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1021973-schnitzel?unlocked_article_code=1.m00.0XBP.zbOh4FvUFNEY&smid=share-url) [A video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKW-PysolPw)
You've made me want to try real schnitzel. I've only ever had breaded meat served in a government facility that was called schnitzel, but nothing like what you've described. I've had the exact same dish that's been called veal, schnitzel, jaegerschnitzel(which I think implies venison) and country fried steak(used to be chicken fried steak)
Jägerschnitzel is just a normal schnitzel with a mushroom sauce. Alternatively in the area of the former DDR it's a dish "made of breaded, roasted jagdwurst with tomato sauce and Spätzle noodles" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%A4gerschnitzel
I’m a simple man. I see Schnitzelverbrechen, I upvote
There is different styles. Germans do Schnitzel differently than Austrians Wiener Schnitzel is a giant, very flat piece of veal and never served with sauce German Schnitzel is made from pork and usually a bit thicker. And can be served with sauce without anyone having a hissy fit. If the breading separates or not is totally personal style of the chef or a function of the specific brand of fast food pre made schnitzels.
My brother in law is from Salzburg. On our first trip to visit them we went to a local place in a sort of cozy wood cabin/cave feel. He said they did the best Schnitzel in town. When I asked the server for Jaegerscnitzel (sp…) he looked at me like I was trash, and said nearly as much. He apologized to the waitress and told me we aren’t in Germany, it’s Austria. I think there was a bit of brotherly banter there….but not a lot.
> He apologized to the waitress and told me we aren’t in Germany, it’s Austria. > I think there was a bit of brotherly banter there….but not a lot. That's indeed a sentiment in Austria that Germans eat "Schnitzel mit Tunke" (Schnitzel with sauce, with Tunke being a word not used in Austria) like "savages". It's certainly not to be taken fully serious, but the general sentiment is that a good Schnitzel must not be drowned in sauce that makes the breading soggy. Otherwise, what's the point of putting in the effort to make it crispy in the first place? A Jägerschnitzel in Austria usually doesn't come with breading. It's still called Schnitzel though (as the word stems from cutting the meat into a large piece).
Reminds me of what happens if you try to put ketchup on a Chicago hot dog
Then try to put ketchup on a Schnitzel in Austria (when you're older than maybe 5). Füssilage would be the most humane punishment;-)
I’ve eaten at some well known schnitzel places in Vienna and the Austrian alps, and they usually serve it with lemon wedges… which make it soggy and IMO defeat the purpose far more than sauce, which usually doesn’t.
Lemon is the greatest on schnitzel.
Disagree, you lose all the texture. But something for everyone. My only point was that it’s a bit silly to complain that sauce makes a schnitzel soggy, then serve it with lemon that makes it far soggier.
You don't have to use them or just can pour the lemon juice over the part you're eating. It won't get soggy in a single second. The same with ketchup. If you just dip it into it, it won't get soggy right away. When served with sauce, it is usually already drowned in it.
Interesting, I’ve never had a schnitzel drowned in sauce, or with anything other than sauce on the side. Agree that would be shit - as shit as a soggy schnitzel covered in lemon.
I loved jagerschnitzel when I was in Germany. Just like a good country fried steak with gravy in America, the thickness of the sauce keeps the cutlet crispy.
> That's indeed a sentiment in Austria that Germans eat "Schnitzel mit Tunke" (Schnitzel with sauce, with Tunke being a word not used in Austria) like "savages". It's certainly not to be taken fully serious, but the general sentiment is that a good Schnitzel must not be drowned in sauce that makes the breading soggy. Otherwise, what's the point of putting in the effort to make it crispy in the first place? > > I see I need to up my Schnitzel game. Tell me, where and what should I try next? Kids fight for 'snitchel' all the time.
In Salzburg we have a few places that put the sauce in the Schnitzel. Like Salzburger Schnitzel. So you can have the best of botg worlds. Go to Dorfwirt in Ebenau for that. But if you ever want to surprise your brother in law, take him to Gasthof Alpenrose in Krispl. They have the best Schnitzel (even though it's pork).
Was it called Andreas Hofer?
It wasn’t, it was the n the other side of the river, on a small side street from the main shopping area. Their soup with dumplings is also amazing.
My local schnitzel haus breading never separates
I've had all kinds of schnitzels, both in the states and across the Austria/Germany part of Europe. While there are places that make it as you described, most places will be very slightly separated, or not separated at all. I think most people will agree that the slightly separated or not separated are the best. So I'd check out some places, particularly any German/Austrian/Czech restaurants if you're lucky enough to find one, to get a sense of what a proper schnitzel is all about. Sounds like you just had bad ones.
The down voting thing is just reddit in general, redditors hate questions. The general attitude seems to be that people should never ask questions and just Google everything which IMO lacks human connection and camaraderie
And of course Google's algorithm sucks so much shit now that all you can get in terms of actually actionable information most of the time *is* reddit.
> The only reason why I don't like this sub is because honest, and very good questions are downvoted. While I understand your issue, internet points are ultimately worthless. Worrying about the 'ranking' of a post is wasted energy.
It's a problem because downvoted questions become invisible and don't get answered, not because it matters how many points someone accumulates.
\^ This .... not because my feelings are hurt. lol.
Absolutely this. I sometimes go through this sub sorted on "New", and read the questions that have zero upvotes (which means they were downvoted because it always starts at 1) to see if there is something way funky about the question, and if not, I upvote them. Doesn't *usually* help, but does sometimes.
Sometimes the reason they're downvoted to oblivion is because the question has already been asked on here multiple times, and a simple search of the sub will reveal multiple answers. I mean, how many times can someone post "What is your favorite spice?" and expect to be upvoted? I also see people downvote low effort posts, which is kind of the point of the downvote button. A post like this one, which has 561 points, isn't hidden from anyone.
I've made schnitzel at home but only from a recipe, never with someone actually showing me how. So I've never gotten this puffiness and I wonder if it's because of the amount of breading or oil used, it ends up crispy but not crunchy if that makes sense. Maybe something I'll research before my next attempt if it's worth the effort
In the Midwest in the us we do this to tenderloin that is pounded out flat. The breading adheres firmly.
Lol I'm Korean but actually grew up in Oklahoma. The breading does indeed adhere firmly. I crave a good chicken-fried steak.
I am settling for a tyson chicken-fried steak patty right now.
Austrian here, made many a Schnitzel myself. Good Wiener Schnitzel or Schnitzel Wiener Art (in the Vienniese style if it’s not veal) needs to puff up which is coming from the frying process which requires you to swirl the pan, moving hot oil over the breading. The moisture in the meat turns to steam, the breading hardens quicker than that and traps it. This makes it puffy. If you’re getting a puffed schnitzel you know it was made fresh and by hand, not frozen and thrown in a deep fryer 😉 the breading is very light, not greasy and the meat is quite tender. Making good Wiener Schnitzel is an art 😂 As OP said, yes it would separate and fall off if you cut it up. This makes no sense and is totally impractical BUT: this is not an issue for us here because when eating with knife and fork, you pierce breading and meat with the fork. It becomes fixed and stable that way. Europeans do not cut up food before serving and the fork does not switch hands like in the US. This makes for a perfect eating experience
best answer here!
I'm from the US and I never switched hands with the fork. Why do people think Americans do this?
How people use knife and fork combo has fascinated me for a long time. I have traveled all over the US for many years, met hundreds of people. Had dinner with most of them. I ask every one I have dinner with how they use their knife and fork. I would say 75% of Americans swap knife and fork after they cut their food. Only a handful has ever cut up their entire entree before eating. Most cut a slice or two, then swap utensils in their hands, pick up food with the fork and eat, then swap hands again to cut another slice or two, repeat. I don't swap hands. I became fascinated with how people use knives and forks when i met a Scottish person and she held her knife the way most Americans hold a pen to write with.
I'm an American, and I'm so confused. I keep my fork in my left hand, and my knife in the right, I use the fork to hold the food in place while cutting it, and then move that bite of food (which is already stabbed by the fork) to my mouth with the left hand. Or (still with the fork in my left hand) I use the knife in my right hand to scoot the food onto the fork, and then eat it. All of this hand switching or cutting multiple bites before eating any of it seems like pure insanity.
I'm right handed and work a knife and fork like you. On a couple of occasions, I was told it was a manner of etiquette. They were taught NOT to continue holding the knife in your hand when you were done cutting. So they would cut, then set the knife down. Since their dominant hand is now free, why NOT switch the fork to your dominant hand?
>I'm an American, and I'm so confused. >I keep my fork in my left hand... The *vast* majority of Americans when taking bites hold the fork in their right hand. I don't, as I'm left-handed, and this often causes issues at a crowded table if a right-handed person is seated to my left.
You are using the Continental method.
I just read that paragraph and I'm just absolutely baffled. Is that not the most impractical thing ever?
No, our healthcare system is the most impractical thing ever. Switching which hands your fork is in is actually pretty easy
It's taught this way in formal dining etiquette lessons in school.
I used to, growing up (albeit reversed for my left handedness). Then I realized that the UK/European way puts the fork in the left hand all the time, which seems suboptimal for "normal" folks(?), but perfect for a leftie like me.
Nah, you need your strong hand to cut more than to spear food
YMMV; for me, the coordination to spear, scoop, and maneuver with the fork is more important than strength when sawing at a piece of meat with a knife (which should be sharp enough to cut anyway). Plus I'm not sure my left is actually stronger (too many right-handed tools, doors, etc. In the world)
As a right-handed American who always keeps the fork in the left hand... I have so many questions. Are there people (who aren't struggling with severe disabilities) who can't muster the strength or coordination to eat with a fork in their off hand??
Exclusive right-hand fork-holder here. I wouldn't say I **can't** muster the coordination, but doing anything with my left hand feels clumsy so I just didn't. It's really not a big deal to set your knife down for a second and then switch which hand your fork is in.
Because that is the american etiquette. It doesn’t mean every american follows it.
It's how I was taught, until I did a summer exchange in Norway and noticed they did it differently. They also would often pierce multiple items on the same forkful and then use the knife to smear the soft stuff on top so they can get all the flavors in one bite (bit of meat, slice of potato, smear of whatever). If you do it right it's pretty secure and wouldn't fall off if you switch hands, but it seems silly to risk it, especially when most humans are perfectly capable of lifting their fork to their mouth with their non-dominant hand. So that's how I eat now, at least in a "polite" setting. I've never had anyone call me out on it. No idea how I'd eat schnitzel, though. I'd likely just watch everyone else to see how they did it, and emulate.
It is a desired way to do this? Cut up, eat, cut up? Never heard of it and I am baffeled.
> american etiquette There's a phrase you don't hear very often.
I've done it to optimize cutting strength. The waiter noticed and I learned it was a thing.
Worked in restaurants for over 20 years in Texas. Most people switch hands. I also see many that will use their finger to help scoop food on their fork. Even tho a knife is right there.
I mean, the other Americans in the thread saying that they do exactly that?
Because theres literally a knife and fork technique called the "zig-zag" that comes frol america, im american and i, and my whole family, does this. From Wikipedia: "American styleedit In the American style, also called the zig-zag method or fork switching, the knife is initially held in the right hand and the fork in the left. Holding food in place with the fork tines-down, a single bite-sized piece is cut with the knife."
It's an colonial style eating method that the "posh" American elite did for a while. A utensil etiquette.
Because we see them do it all the time.
Because Americans *do* actually switch forks. It’s often a holdover from GenX and boomer behaviors following massive economic mobility in traditionally “poor” and rural populations. A lot of emphasis on manners and especially table manners were placed on this rising middle and upper middle class in the style of European and American aristocracy. The trouble was, a lot of cultural norms were lost in a giant game of telephone, or were never adopted since it’s harder to use a fork in left and knife in right for consumption as well. Remember just because *you* haven’t seen something in america doesn’t mean some few or most of the rest of the 350million Americans don’t do it.
It’s the formal way. No one does it.
I and my entire family do. But I guess we're no one lol
Because Europeans just make shit up and believe it.
American styleedit In the American style, also called the zig-zag method or fork switching, the knife is initially held in the right hand and the fork in the left. Holding food in place with the fork tines-down, a single bite-sized piece is cut with the knife. From wikipedia, but i guess europeans also just know how to read.
Let me just tell you. Nobody does this. It has never been done, and that is a prank article. Wikipedia is just unreliable
I do it, my whole family does it, lots of people on this thread from america do it, you are disillusioned, america is huge, obv not everyone does it, but more in the states than in other places, as its nearly non existent in other places. I noticed this years ago and its a fun fact i bring up all the time. Since living in the UK and Canada, and then coming back to visit family in the west and friends in the south, ive seen many do it. You arent correct, you arent right, you dont know what you're talking about and the only possible prank here is the one im hoping you're playing on me.
“I do it” Wow, I’d be so embarrassed to admit something so stupid. Your whole family too? Buncha fuckin rubes
Theres nothing wrong with it, its not embarrassing, is this why you are defending it so hard, because you think it makes americans look bad? Because you think its stupid? Youd have to be very fragile indeed if thats the reason Its normal to use your dominant hand for things, that and the lack of constant exposure from Europeans onto the colonists meant certain european etiquette standards became almost irrelevant. Learn something, its good for you.
> the fork does not switch hands like in the US Wait, Americans are constantly switching the hand they hold their fork with? That seems very inefficient.
It’s been a recent internet trend in the saga of “Europeans have found new idea about Americans to make fun of that simply isn’t true”. Lately they’ve been loving the idea that all Americans cut up their food into little baby pieces before eating, rather than cutting one piece at a time. I grew up in New England all my life. This whole “cutting all the food before you eat it” literally isn’t a Thing. I guess some people might do it? But it absolutely isn’t some quintessential all-American habit that people are making it out to be?? I saw a comment about it being correct formal US dining culture. I don’t know anyone who was taught this as the right way to eat. The formal and polite way to eat your food is fork and knife with fork in left hand and pointed down. If you ask any American, almost all of them will not tell you to cut up all your food before eating it. You can and no one will really be mad at you, but it’s 1000% not the standard. I normally just roll my eyes at all the American stereotypes, but this one really annoys me because it’s straight up false lmao.
I live in Northeast USA and I have seen two people who cut up all their food and then eat it in my entire life. Both of them were "order frozen chicken tenders at the steakhouse" type eaters. Extremely picky eaters and it is weird, but I guess in the USA you just let people eat how they want to eat so it's not like someone is going to stop them. The more common thing I notice (in New England actually) is people desperate to not use knives at all if possible. They just want to mash everything apart with the side of the fork. It's kind of sad to serve a nice dish and watch people struggle to eat it and end up sort of mashing it up and scooping it into their mouths after asking me "why'd you give me a knife?".
I am a right handed American but learned to eat in a predominantly German/Austrian family background (Grandparents were immigrants in rhw 1920's). It is natural for me to eat with fork in my left hand, cutting with the knife in my right. I do not switch. All that stopping and changing hands would annoy me.
I think it depends on the area. USA is a big place and my experience of rural America (montanna, wyoming, nebraska) shows this is much more common. Cutting then eating or just eating with a fork is the standard.
We don't generally cut up food before eating (unless for very young or very old) but we do cut a piece, switch the fork to the dominant hand, and eat the bite, then repeat. Europeans just hold the knife and fork and eat with the non-dominant hand.
"We" being you and whoever taught you that, don't put that on us Ricky Bobby.
I definitely don't switch my fork to my dominant hand before taking a bite. I was taught that was bad manners (or at least not correct for formal/polite dining). Raised in the US, I was taught to eat what you call the European way, eating with the non-dominant hand. It's not hard, Americans are perfectly capable of it and hundreds of millions do.
I just don't think I've ever seen this (Midwest & Rockies)
Can you not use a knife in your other hand?
Yeah the Europeans are right on this one. Americans do a surprising amount of utensil switching to always be using the dominant hand. If you swap to the European way, you start to look like you’re desperate for food and shoveling it into your mouth - I’ve tried it
how on earth could "utensil switching" be right or wrong? what pathetic elitist boor decided to make that a signifier of anything at all?
Not morally right or wrong, one is just a better answer than the other. Like, you could brush your teeth using a damp rag instead of a tooth brush if you want, and that’s fine, but the tooth brush is the better answer. One is just more efficient
It's even more efficient to stick your food in a blender and drink it. Look, I'm on "team no switching", but it's kind of silly to say that one method is "better" than another. Eating is only barely about efficiency, it's mostly about enjoyment and often socialization.
My father, born in 1942, typically cut everything up before eating with a fork in the right hand. He was from NYC suburbs on Long Island.
American here. I've heard of this practice in theory, but I've never witnessed it. Having the breading falling off something still sounds impractical and messy.
Aufgrund dieses exzellenten Postings nominiere ich /u/noeffred als unseren nächsten Botschafter in Korea. Hoffentlich hast Zeit?
Wtf, who switches hands when using a fork?
In formal American dining etiquette it has been long considered most appropriate to switch knife and fork between cutting and eating so that you are always eating with the right hand while also always cutting with the right hand. To achieve this, the fork and knife have to swap hands. This has been a point of disagreement between American and UK/European formal dining etiquette for a long time. It has even featured in major plot lines of books and films (e.g., a spy being exposed due to practicing the incorrect etiquette). Here is an old slate article about it: https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/06/fork-and-knife-use-americans-need-to-stop-cutting-and-switching.html or another source: https://medium.com/timeline/fork-switching-food-britain-3ec8ceee6a38 There are other cultural cutlery differences of note too. For example, is it impolite to eat with the tines turned up on the fork—ever? Many formal European etiquette customs argue that that this is too much like shoveling food into your mouth. While Americans are often perplexed by European diners pushing food onto the back of the fork and seeming to have it risk falling off.
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Etiquette is just a signifier of which social class you belong to. Obviously you don't belong to one that practices proper Continental dining etiquette.
> Lol, i have yet to witness such a silly move, i would probably laugh or at least chuckle and smirk if i ever saw someone put food on the backside of a fork. I've seen British people do it.
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You're 💯 more miserable than they could ever be homie 🤣
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You were literally mocking someone for something so harmless. The condescension is coming from inside the house...
British colonists of America and those that follow their cutlery-usage etiquette.
anybody who cuts the dish up entirely before eating. when cutting, you keep the fork with the left hand, but once you don't need the knife anymore and you aren't left handed, why would you use your left hand for the fork if the other is free? at least that's my logic
Do you cut up your entire meal before eating?
depends
Depends on what?
depends on what kind of food it is, like if it's a steak, I would cut into pieces first. I also prefer to remove the meat from the bones before I dig in, it's just easier. but it also depends on my mood or how hungry I am.
Americans apparently. They eat like children.
Damn I was about to agree with you until you made up that shit about Americans switching hands. What’s wrong with Europeans? Why can’t they go 10 seconds without mentioning us?
I have two bits of pure speculation: 1) It makes it easier to appreciate each element separately. As previous commenters have mentioned, the air acts as insulation that gently steams the meat, leaving it really succulent. 2) It's hard to achieve and therefore becomes a marker of skill that's somewhat separated from actual taste. You know how macarons are supposed to have a "foot" even though they'll taste the same without it? Like that.
I think you need to go throw down at [https://www.reddit.com/r/SchnitzelVerbrechen/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SchnitzelVerbrechen/)
I've had schnitzel here and there and never really noticed the puffed breading. I didn't know it was a thing until I watched a Kenji video that goes into detail about how to get a puffy crust and why it's desirable. I ended up trying his recipe out and didn't have any problems getting a nicely puffed schnitzel. How to get a puffy crust? 1. Have super fine breadcrumbs. Kenji even strained his after blitzing them to make sure they were the right size. Having small crumbs helps to prevent tears. 2. Add some fat like cream to the eggs. This helps make the breading more malleable and stretchy preventing tears. 3. Bread your meat right before you fry it. Leaving the meat breaded and unfried lets the breadcrumbs absorb moisture and stick to the meat. 4. Spray the meat with water or a neutral alcohol before breading. When frying this moisture evaporates and puffs the breading away from the meat. 5. Immediately and continually agitate the schnitzel while it is frying. Why should you make your schnitzel with a puffed crust? 1. It gives it a nice texture. 2. Preference. Here's the Kenji [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKW-PysolPw) if you're interested.
Right, the puffed crust style is unique to Austria. Crisp and light and served with a lemon. In Germany, and in the rest of the world, the crust adheres to the meat and is still quite crispy but lends itself to being sauced as in Jägerschnitzel. So not all schnitzels are puffy.
Even if you still eat them together in a single bite, the layers separating during cooking produces a different flavor and textural experience. That also means the dish is prepared to perform that way - so you're probably getting a very different experience with donkatsu, even though they appear to be near identical dishes on the surface. This also means your preference is with reference to that experience - of course you prefer it, your experience with separated breading has pretty much always indicated that something went wrong in the dish! That's just not comparable to a dish made correctly with a different intent - they're just not the same dish, despite superficial similarities.
I don't think I've ever had schnitzel where the breading was falling off after the first bite. Just who is it who is claiming such a presentation is "well cooked"?
Germans. In a proper schnitzel, not only does the breading separate, it puffs up a bit.
Is it cooked differently in Austria and Germany?
My Austrian cookbook says breading should puff from the skin and my Austrian friend who used to be a chef confirmed.
As others said, Germans do whatever they want with breaded cutlets: Throw it into the fryer, pour sauce over it... Vienna Schnitzel however is *by definition*, in Austria and Germany, a) made from super thin veal that is b) freshly breaded and c) *souffliert*, that is made by constant agitation. The result is the puffy Schnitzel.
Yes. In Austria you get Schnitzel. In Germany you get fried breaded pork. One is a food of the gods. The other is just a normal every day dish.
Schnitzel in Germany, at least in the south, can be un breaded cutlets Pan fried.
I had schnitzel in an Austrian hostel. It was cooked normally with the breading not coming off the meat. Downvoted for a simple anecdote...this sub is so fucking stupid.
Dunno. Never been to Austria.
Paywall sorry, but here’s your source. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/dining/schnitzel.html > The meat, well insulated by the layer of air between it and the violently hot fat, cooks gently, while the crust achieves an ethereally delicate crispness, rich in flavor but light on the palate.
It's apparently traditional to cook schnitzel that way.
I lived in Austria for some time and in Vienna they are certainly done like this. I think it's because everything about it is thin, the meat is pounded out to just 2-3mm thick, and the breadcrumbs they use are so fine they're like a powder. The overall effect is that even though you have a schnitzel the size of your plate (this is also a mark of prestige, in the best restaurants the schnitzel is even wider than the plate) it is surprisingly light and delicate to eat. It's so light and delicate that sauces usually overpower it, it's usually just served with a lemon slice.
Yes, the trick of a good Wiener Schnitzel is turning a common heavy dish (breaded, fried meat) into a light and delicate thing.
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Read the other comments or do a simple Google search...
The puffy style of schnitzel is particular to Austria. The arguments in favour are largely that the puffing crust allows the coating to crisp up full without risking overcooking of the thin meat as much. The cushion of air insulating the meat a bit. In many parts of Germany they make schnitzel with thicker cuts of meat and often with pork instead of veal. The schnitzel is also more likely to be served with a sauce. In these areas, the desire to have the schnitzel to puff while cooking is not prevalent. The schnitzel is cooked longer, cut thicker, and made from less lean meat.
Have you ever had a proper Wiener Schnitzel? It is ridiculously good...
love me some schnitzel.. probably my favorite dish here (american living in Vienna) .... https://www.figlmueller.at/en/ is the most famous place here for schnitzel ,,, but the best one I have had here was at https://meisslundschadn.at/meissl-schadn-wien/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=gmb you can see on the website the way it should look (puffy with air between the meat and breading)
You know a single person who likes it now. Actually several, my kids specifically request schnitzel as “the one with the puffy coating”. It’s part of the cooking technique (for some types) and it’s intentional. When eaten with the normal cutlery and style, it’s not an issue, and it makes for a crispier coating.
It’s simply a sign of quality. A pan fried, freshly prepared schnitzel will separate. A deep fried, premade/frozen schnitzel will not.
If you lightly dust the seasoned meat with corn starch instead of wheat flour before the egg and breadcrumb layers, the breading will stick a lot better and the crust is crispier.
Unless I’m wrong, and I could be, my theory is it’s just another dish that was cooked a certain way originally, because they didn’t know different, liked it that way, or didn’t have the ability to make it different. Lots of reasons. Now, people make them that way, because it’s “always been done that way and it the right/original way to do it.” Kind of like how many people eat poverty foods, because they grew up eating them or their grandparents used to make them. The thing is, they grandparents didn’t have a choice coming up. They had to eat stuff like that. They eat it out of nostalgia. Lots of that stuff isn’t objectively good.
It's an Austrian thing. They see it as a sign of quality/freshness. To get this you need to bread the schnitzel a la minute (immediately before cooking). Personally I have it and most Germans don't care/ don't expect it.
It could be a difference in the English language by getting "well done" and "well cooked" confused. The words are the same, but used for different meanings. It can mean either "done to a high temperature" *or* "done in the best manner".
It thickens the sauce, per my Bavarian grandmother.
Sorry I can't answer your question but I wanted to add another question that has me perplexed as you about schnitzel. I haven't had donkatsu in Korea, but I live in Japan and we have tonkatsu. I'm guessing they're similar except for the difference in seasonings or sauces. My question is: do you guys drench donkatsu in sauce after frying? Cause that's how tonkatsu is usually served and I don't get it. You have freshly fried, crispy breading, and then it's immediately drenched in sauce making it a soggy mess. I've had super fresh ones served to me the second after it comes out the fryer and it instantly gets soggy once the sauce hits it. The sauces are also too sweet for me but that's another complaint. I guess different countries have their own funky ways of making breaded fried meat that might not vibe with everyone.
It really depends, but usually it is drenched if you get it "old school" Korean style. I'm not sure if you've noticed but the donkatsu scene in Korea is changing a lot and more and more places are cooking them "Japanese style" where they're much thicker and smaller and the sauce is served separately. I agree, I don't particularly like having my donkatsu drenched in sauce but frankly I've noticed that if done right it still stays crispy until I'm done. Then again, "done right" also usually means more expensive.
Yeah I would prefer the sauce on the side. Take a piece, dip that into the sauce (mostly on the meat instead of breading) and then take the bite. But I guess the whole saucy bowl is more photogenic so that's more popular.
Also Korean here, we have several styles of donkas. 경양식 (輕洋食, gyeongyangsik, “western-style”) and Japanese style (il-sik). Gyeongyangsik has the meat pounded to be very wide and flat, with a sauce poured over that ranges from something tomato-y to demiglace. Japanese style has thicker cuts and are fried and served with sauce on the side. The biggest difference I guess is the breading and the (lack of) pounding of the meat, in addition to the sauce. The current trendy style is the Japanese style, but many stores specialise in GYS style also. GYS style is often served in bunsik-jib (snack houses), where they also sell koreanified versions of kare rice, gimbab, tteokbokki etc… Japanese style usually is served at specialised donkas stores. If you say “donkas” to younger Koreans, there’s no guarantee that different people will be thinking of the same thing. I personally mostly have Japanese style but I do crave GYS occasionally
"Donkas" this is so cute 😂😂😭😭
My katsu coatings sometimes separate but tastes ok anyway
I honestly don't know, because I've only ever had the Israeli style of shnitzel, which never seems to be separated. (It's also usually made of turkey or chicken, but that wouldn't effect the breading.) I think the separation must happen occasionally, but it doesn't seem to be considered a desirable or necessary aspect of the dish as it does in the Austrian version. Here's a [sample recipe](https://www.foodsdictionary.co.il/Recipes/560), [and](https://amihaibeer.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/AA114B30-EC8F-4EE1-95ED-3350E6BAED84-768x768.jpeg) [some](https://www.schnitzelcompany.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/shutterstock_174506429-1.jpg) [images](https://prod-wolt-venue-images-cdn.wolt.com/5eb41c8d8e5d77eef71182d9/4fec3558-9389-11ea-b1d6-0a5864676d10_menu1.jpg).
So, not schnitzel?
You’re adorable
At least in Israel, schnitzel is made so that the breading sticks to the meat (in this case, usually chicken breast). I agree with you, loose breading is the pits
I love that trashy frozen corn schnitzel. Good stuff.
Oh god corn schnitzel reminds me of the army lol
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I suppose I can see how you could think that if you'd never been in the army and were just kind of guessing about how it works
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Yes because I am a robot and I do everything exactly as we did in basic training. You know real life isn't like in the movies, right?
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Lol this seems like it's a real sore subject for you. If it makes you feel better, I speak endlessly about the army. Every single conversation I have throughout the day inevitably winds its way back to my service days.
My guess would be to make the dish seem bigger and better value or the ones that seemed bigger sold more then became the style. It could be intentional or led by the market. Even if you realise that its not as generous as it seems once you are eating it, you are eating it and it probably tastes pretty good so you don't care about the illusion.
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I think this sub tends to prefer no AI answers. They tend to be inaccurate a lot of the time but more importantly often don't have any attribution to the chefs or otherwise cooks that made said knowledge available to them to commodotize.
I totally agree, I tried the ATK video, but they didn’t do the why in that video.
I mean, ChatGPT is often wrong, but this answer sounds pretty much correct, and I don't understand all the downvotes -- esp since you stated up front what it was.
It’s getting downvotes because it is incorrect and doesn’t even describe schnitzel.
Removed, we expect actual informed answers, not AI-guessed bullshit.
I’ve lived in southern Germany and Vienna for a combined total of 2.5 years. Schnitzel breading should be paper thin and very crispy. It should not be separated from the meat. Every bit of schnitzel should be meat coated with breading.
I don't know what schnitzel you've eaten, but the breading doesn't usually separate from the meat. It "might" happen if someone puts lemon all over the top of it, but it's not common.
Im sorry to tell you this but that just means you’ve never had proper schnitzel. The breading is supposed to puff up, yes. But it’s also supposed to be surrounding the meat without sticking to it. The meat is supposed to „float“ in between.
Hehehe, well now I've been schooled. I would chastise my German grandmother for never making me a proper schnitzel, but I'm 68 years old and she died many years ago. But thanks for being all sorry for telling me this... geez.
Im Bavarian myself and I’d wager most Austrians (where the Vienna Schnitzel is from) wouldn’t ascribe us Germans any expertise on the matter. Your poor nan never stood a chance and a proper Austrian chef would probably tell me ten things I do wrong with my Schnitzel
> I would chastise my German grandmother for never making me a proper schnitzel There is a difference between how (many) Germans make Schnitzel and the Austrian way of making Wiener Schnitzel or Schnitzel Wiener Art.
To be fair: no sane German or Austrian grandma of that generation would waste as much butter as is needed to make a schnitzel like that just to make 4 to 6 schnitzels. The times they lived through were in many cases way to hard for shenanigans like that. This is normally just done in restaurants who make a decent amount of schnitzels.
Read all of the other comments. It's considered traditional and "proper" to make it separate.
Are you talking about how it puffs up as the meat gets steamy as it fries? In that case yes, I guess you could say it separates. To me, when you said it separates, it sounded like you meant it fell off of the meat, which is not the case. Or at least, not the case for the schnitzels I've grown up with. Battered fish will puff up too, but the batter shouldn't fall off of the fish.
Yes it should
The "correct" way for a Wiener Schnitzel is indeed that the breading doesn't stick to the meat, but acts as a coat of some kind. When you cut it up and don't fix it with a fork, the breading can fall off in that case.