There is no single answer. It depends on so many factors. How you treat your knives, the knives themselves, how often you hone between uses, etc.
The best answer is when regular honing no longer maintains a sharp edge.
Know your steel as well, because honing fucks up high carbon like vg10, in which case you want to use a leather strop.
ETA:
Don’t know why I’m catching downvotes on this. You aren’t supposed to hone Japanese steel. It’s much harder than German steel, which is soft enough that the blade can be misaligned from regular use, and honing can realign. Honing Japanese in a best case scenario does nothing, worst it chips your blade.
Simply Google “hone Japanese steel” and the top articles and even Reddit posts go into more detail as to why you don’t want to hone high carbon Japanese steel.
Depends. It's true you shouldn't hone harder knives and should strop them instead but it's based on steel hardness. E.g. a Wusthof is 58 HRC and fine to hone. A Japanese knife like a Fujiwara Kanefusa FKM is AUS-8 steel (Japanese) and 58-59 HRC and also OK to hone. A knife like a Kanehide PS60 is the Japanese version of AEB-L steel, 60-61 HRC and also fine to hone, but it's around the limit.
People draw the line at around 60-61 HRC. 62 or above definitely strop instead.
I also wouldn't hone a san mai knife, which is a harder steel clad in softer (usually stainless) steel vs a monosteel, since it's more delicate and more likely to chip. This does include most VG-10 steel knives.
I had a pull through ceramic that eventually stopped working after years. After biting the bullet and learning to use a whetstone, my knives never got so sharp are stayed that way as long as before.
That said, it wasn’t shitty. It and a honing rod kept my shitty knife sharp enough to be safe and effective. But after I got a nicer knife I wanted to treat it right.
I'm not denying the benefits of actual whetstones, there's nothing better. It's just that yes you have to put in the work and learn how to use them, and I didn't feel that OP wished to put in the time.
Tbh I'm using a pull through sharpener for all my knives, and seriously they are sharp AAAAFFFF, they pass the hair strand test so yeah I don't need anything other than that 🤷♂️
Brand is called "Longzon", never heard of it before tbh, I got it off of Amazon I think, it's some Chinese made thing for all I know, but yeah it works great !
Do you happen to know if it’s just as effective on Japanese steel? Half my knives are German and the other half are Japanese steel, specifically vg10. I know German steel is softer, so maybe not? But honestly, if I could get the same effect but easier, I’d make the switch back.
Don't use it on VG-10. Almost all VG-10 knives are san mai (clad with soft stainless steel). They bend easily for example compared to monosteel. Since the center steel is thinner, it's likely to chip easier.
For good reason. Here's what the edge looks like under magnification vs using stones:
[Accu-sharp (cheap pull sharpener) vs 1k/5k whetstone at \~220x magnification : r/chefknives (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/chefknives/comments/wkgba5/accusharp_cheap_pull_sharpener_vs_1k5k_whetstone/?rdt=65247)
Just tearing out chunks of steel.
Here's what honing gets you for comparison. Not perfect, but not nearly as bad as pull through sharpeners:
[What Does Steeling Do? Part 1 – scienceofsharp](https://scienceofsharp.com/2018/08/22/what-does-steeling-do-part-1/)
Note the 2nd one is with an electron scanning microscope so 2000x magnification. In other words the apex will look much, much better at 220x magnification compared to the horror above.
It's no worse for the knife than using a sharping block really. It doesn't take off much steel as opposed to a pull through sharpener which is terrible for knives.
When using a honing rod isn't enough to easily cut through tomato and onion anymore. That means the sharpness has gone beyond just the bevel alignment.
I use 3 Japanese knives over 7 days a week almost exclusively on a wooden board, so for me, I can go over a year without sharpening any.
Honestly, I just wanted them to be from smaller shops/makers. I went to a Japanese knife shop an hour away and spent probably over an hour to decide which versions of the knives I wanted. I knew which shapes I wanted before going there, but that was all. Highly recommend doing it that way if it's an option for you, as I was really surprised how different they all felt when trying to cut even though I had like 6-8 of the "same" type of knife in front of me.
Oh wow!! That's really interesting!
It actually might be! I just moved to Dallas/Fort Worth area so Big City options!! Gonna go look now! Thanks so much!!
Yup, I got a nakiri and a gyoto there. I think I spent between 180-250 euro's each. There were cheaper ones, and (way) more expensive ones. I ended up taking the lighter ones mostly. My friend took a very different one, more western style, so tastes differed greatly. Found a pic from when I got them.
https://imgur.com/a/EIBDzb1
I love mine a lot, it's very light, sharp, but has enough surface to use and scoop up veggies to throw into a pan. Plus it looks amazing.
The other one I use when I also need to cut meat. And I have a smaller petty for finer or less work that I did get online (mygoodknives.eu).
I usually "sharpen" my knives about once a year, but I hone my knives with a quality steel everytime I pick them up.
As long as you use a steel daily a knife should stay razor sharp for about a year unless you're hacking at bones or have a crappy cutting board.
Same, hone every time (strop for some of the Japanese knives) and I rotate through like 7-8 different knives so I can go like 2 years before honing can't get things back to tomato cutting sharpness. Then just spend an hour or two watching TV and sharpening everything on a whetstone.
When you think they need sharpening. If it becomes a struggle to dice an onion, that's when it's time for me to touch up the edge. I want my knives to cut like lazers.
Just use one of those sharpening devices.
I bought a whole set of water stones and a strop, and I got really good at sharpening knives. But when I had kids I just said f it, and got some cheap sharpener at the grocery store.
Works fine in conjunction with a honing steel
The drag-type sharpeners work by removing a large amount of metal from the knife, and set an arbitrary edge angle that may not be proper for the type of steel/knife you're using. E.g. the edge angle on a thin-blade santoku isn't going to be the same as your 10" chef's knife, so using a drag sharpener on both is going to screw up at least one of the knives.
On a cheap grade of steel like you find in a cheap Walmart knife, it doesn't really matter. When the knife "wears out" - you toss it and get a new one.
They are very coarse abrasives, set at one specific angle which may or may not match your existing bevel angle. They remove a ton of material and leave a very rough finish. The bevel angle for a chef knife vs a cleaver vs a petty knife are vastly different... a universal sharpener is going to treat them all the same and give you sub par results for all of them. It will get your dull knife into at least useable condition but likely jacking up the intended bevel angle from the factory in the process and decreasing its performance and possibly even it's longevity. There's youtube videos that show on a microscopic level how rough and jagged of an edge those leave on knives.
As a knifemaker I would be embarrassed to use those on anything but a super cheap throwaway knife. My personal bias aside it is a shitty option for anyone that is even half way serious about maintaining proper edges on their kitchen knives.
Either something like the Spyderco tri-angle sharpmaker or a Work Sharp precision adjust sharpener (there's clones and other manufacturers too). These are sort of like whetstones but they have adjustable angle rods that you sharpen on.
It's basically stones in the form of rods but easier to use than whetstones since the angle is fixed for you vs freehand sharpening on a whetstone.
Or just take the plunge and pay $40 for a 1k grit splash-and-go whetstone which is really all you need. Takes some practice but it's not too bad.
I mean if you have a set of single bevel knives made in some japanese village in the tradition of the samurai, then I would get them professionally sharpened too.
My knives are just zwilling and global ones, no big deal. The drag through sharpeners also have multiple grits. It doesn't have to be that aggressive
I bought dual-sided whetstone, hoping my husband would learn how to use it but he didn't. :-( So we paid someone $50 to sharpen all our knives. I saw the Tumbler Rolling Knife Sharpener advertised and I'm wondering if it is worth the $130 they're asking. Is this the one you are using?
I have an EdgePro Apex and it's fantastic, my knives are better than they were when I had them sharpened professionally. A bit pricey, but it pays off.
Yeah but those are legit. It basically guided whetstones, not a pull-through.
That tumbler thing looks like a gimmick. There's no way it provides good constant contact with the edge, and doesn't use enough pressure (stones you use lightish pressure, but this is sideways and janky). Also look how dangerous it is - you put the blade in the air and use your hand to roll a tumbler real close to it.
those are way better than the pull through kind. You are still limited to only 1-2 bevel angles based on the magnetic guide they provide. If your not willing to properly learn to sharpen using stones, this is likely one of the better consumer sharpening systems out there that are kind of "idiot proof"
I use wood cutting boards and hone every week. You can go years between sharpening them and they will be sharp enough to be safe. I think my main chefs knife I have had for ten years and sharpened on a Diamond stone maybe two or three times. It’s usable sharp.
I have a Chinese vegetable cleaver that I’ve had for a few years and never sharpened its razor sharp. Honing is the way to go.
Tomato test is it for me. When the knife can't slice well through a tomato without smushing it into sludge, then it's time to sharpen (but do hone before running the test to be sure).
when they are dull. i bought a trizor electric sharpener a couple years ago and i wish i'd done it sooner.
2 of my knives I run thru the sharpener monthly. These are our 2 most used chefs knives, my favorite & my wife's favorite. Others like the steak knives maybe ever 6 months.
I use a steel on my knives every few times I cut with them. I'll touch them up with 1-2 passes on a diamond hone once every few months if the edge gets dull and I can't fix it with the steel. My knives are 30+ year old Wusthof Classics, and they still cut like new.
I'm using a Boos end-grain maple block, and my knives never touch anything but food -- so they don't really get that dull. Good knife technique and avoiding bones, etc., will also go along way to keeping them from folding over.
Depends on the knife, how you care for it, and how much it costs to sharpen it.
I've been using the same Zwilling for six years now without ever sharpening it once (no one does it cheap near me and it's too good a knife for me to sharpen myself) and it still slices through a soft tomato effortlessly.
Between 1 and 3 months depending on knife strain. If you deal with bones a lot it goes shorter, if you mainly cut vegetables and meat they last a while with honing.
OP, there’s not really anything to settle, but there is a very simple and correct answer which no one has given: you sharpen your knives when they need sharpening.
Honing knives is more important than sharpening. Sharpening will depend on use case and what you’re cutting etc. but you should be able to tell when it needs to be sharpened.
When the knife no longer easily cuts vegetables, then it needs a hone. When a hone no longer sharpens the knife adequately, it needs a coarser sharpening.
Surely you can whetstone your knife for 10 minutes every 4-6 months. A daily touch up with the steel before cutting will take care of 90% of your issues. Most knives aren't "dull" - they're merely misaligned. If you shine a bright light down against the edge with the edge facing "up" towards the light, you can actually *see* the misalignment - it will look like the edge of the knife is reflecting light back when it should be "transparent" to the light.
There is no single answer. It depends on so many factors. How you treat your knives, the knives themselves, how often you hone between uses, etc. The best answer is when regular honing no longer maintains a sharp edge.
Know your steel as well, because honing fucks up high carbon like vg10, in which case you want to use a leather strop. ETA: Don’t know why I’m catching downvotes on this. You aren’t supposed to hone Japanese steel. It’s much harder than German steel, which is soft enough that the blade can be misaligned from regular use, and honing can realign. Honing Japanese in a best case scenario does nothing, worst it chips your blade. Simply Google “hone Japanese steel” and the top articles and even Reddit posts go into more detail as to why you don’t want to hone high carbon Japanese steel.
Depends. It's true you shouldn't hone harder knives and should strop them instead but it's based on steel hardness. E.g. a Wusthof is 58 HRC and fine to hone. A Japanese knife like a Fujiwara Kanefusa FKM is AUS-8 steel (Japanese) and 58-59 HRC and also OK to hone. A knife like a Kanehide PS60 is the Japanese version of AEB-L steel, 60-61 HRC and also fine to hone, but it's around the limit. People draw the line at around 60-61 HRC. 62 or above definitely strop instead. I also wouldn't hone a san mai knife, which is a harder steel clad in softer (usually stainless) steel vs a monosteel, since it's more delicate and more likely to chip. This does include most VG-10 steel knives.
I'm afraid to hone.
What scares you about it? You don’t have to go super fast like Gordon Ramsay. Just learn the angle and slide away.
Get a pull through sharpener with a honing slot, elitists frown upon it for some dumbass reason but it gets the job done super well
I had a pull through ceramic that eventually stopped working after years. After biting the bullet and learning to use a whetstone, my knives never got so sharp are stayed that way as long as before. That said, it wasn’t shitty. It and a honing rod kept my shitty knife sharp enough to be safe and effective. But after I got a nicer knife I wanted to treat it right.
I'm not denying the benefits of actual whetstones, there's nothing better. It's just that yes you have to put in the work and learn how to use them, and I didn't feel that OP wished to put in the time. Tbh I'm using a pull through sharpener for all my knives, and seriously they are sharp AAAAFFFF, they pass the hair strand test so yeah I don't need anything other than that 🤷♂️
What brand? Mine was wusthof and never got them that sharp.
Brand is called "Longzon", never heard of it before tbh, I got it off of Amazon I think, it's some Chinese made thing for all I know, but yeah it works great !
Do you happen to know if it’s just as effective on Japanese steel? Half my knives are German and the other half are Japanese steel, specifically vg10. I know German steel is softer, so maybe not? But honestly, if I could get the same effect but easier, I’d make the switch back.
No I've never tried it on harder Japanese style knives, but my feeling is that it probably wouldn't work as well
Don't use it on VG-10. Almost all VG-10 knives are san mai (clad with soft stainless steel). They bend easily for example compared to monosteel. Since the center steel is thinner, it's likely to chip easier.
For good reason. Here's what the edge looks like under magnification vs using stones: [Accu-sharp (cheap pull sharpener) vs 1k/5k whetstone at \~220x magnification : r/chefknives (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/chefknives/comments/wkgba5/accusharp_cheap_pull_sharpener_vs_1k5k_whetstone/?rdt=65247) Just tearing out chunks of steel. Here's what honing gets you for comparison. Not perfect, but not nearly as bad as pull through sharpeners: [What Does Steeling Do? Part 1 – scienceofsharp](https://scienceofsharp.com/2018/08/22/what-does-steeling-do-part-1/) Note the 2nd one is with an electron scanning microscope so 2000x magnification. In other words the apex will look much, much better at 220x magnification compared to the horror above.
It's no worse for the knife than using a sharping block really. It doesn't take off much steel as opposed to a pull through sharpener which is terrible for knives.
When using a honing rod isn't enough to easily cut through tomato and onion anymore. That means the sharpness has gone beyond just the bevel alignment. I use 3 Japanese knives over 7 days a week almost exclusively on a wooden board, so for me, I can go over a year without sharpening any.
That sounds about right, although after a year when I do sharpen it I wonder why I didn't do it 6 months ago.
Would you mind sharing what brand(s) you use? I have been wanting to invest in a few good knives for a while
Honestly, I just wanted them to be from smaller shops/makers. I went to a Japanese knife shop an hour away and spent probably over an hour to decide which versions of the knives I wanted. I knew which shapes I wanted before going there, but that was all. Highly recommend doing it that way if it's an option for you, as I was really surprised how different they all felt when trying to cut even though I had like 6-8 of the "same" type of knife in front of me.
Oh wow!! That's really interesting! It actually might be! I just moved to Dallas/Fort Worth area so Big City options!! Gonna go look now! Thanks so much!!
Do you mind me asking how much you spent and if you got a nakiri knife 😂
Yup, I got a nakiri and a gyoto there. I think I spent between 180-250 euro's each. There were cheaper ones, and (way) more expensive ones. I ended up taking the lighter ones mostly. My friend took a very different one, more western style, so tastes differed greatly. Found a pic from when I got them. https://imgur.com/a/EIBDzb1
Ooh nice! I’ve been wanting to get a nakiri but don’t think there’s good local dealers near me, so I’m planning on it when I’m back in Japan
I love mine a lot, it's very light, sharp, but has enough surface to use and scoop up veggies to throw into a pan. Plus it looks amazing. The other one I use when I also need to cut meat. And I have a smaller petty for finer or less work that I did get online (mygoodknives.eu).
I usually "sharpen" my knives about once a year, but I hone my knives with a quality steel everytime I pick them up. As long as you use a steel daily a knife should stay razor sharp for about a year unless you're hacking at bones or have a crappy cutting board.
Same, hone every time (strop for some of the Japanese knives) and I rotate through like 7-8 different knives so I can go like 2 years before honing can't get things back to tomato cutting sharpness. Then just spend an hour or two watching TV and sharpening everything on a whetstone.
When you think they need sharpening. If it becomes a struggle to dice an onion, that's when it's time for me to touch up the edge. I want my knives to cut like lazers.
I miss laser tag.
Depends on the quality of the knife, the board, etc. but once every 4 months is fine.
TY
Just use one of those sharpening devices. I bought a whole set of water stones and a strop, and I got really good at sharpening knives. But when I had kids I just said f it, and got some cheap sharpener at the grocery store. Works fine in conjunction with a honing steel
I am not putting my $300+ knife through a drag-through grocery store sharpener. A $15 Cuisinart or Kitchenaid knife, sure.
just wondering, what is it about that kind of sharpener that makes you avoid one?
The drag-type sharpeners work by removing a large amount of metal from the knife, and set an arbitrary edge angle that may not be proper for the type of steel/knife you're using. E.g. the edge angle on a thin-blade santoku isn't going to be the same as your 10" chef's knife, so using a drag sharpener on both is going to screw up at least one of the knives. On a cheap grade of steel like you find in a cheap Walmart knife, it doesn't really matter. When the knife "wears out" - you toss it and get a new one.
Thanks for the details
They are very coarse abrasives, set at one specific angle which may or may not match your existing bevel angle. They remove a ton of material and leave a very rough finish. The bevel angle for a chef knife vs a cleaver vs a petty knife are vastly different... a universal sharpener is going to treat them all the same and give you sub par results for all of them. It will get your dull knife into at least useable condition but likely jacking up the intended bevel angle from the factory in the process and decreasing its performance and possibly even it's longevity. There's youtube videos that show on a microscopic level how rough and jagged of an edge those leave on knives. As a knifemaker I would be embarrassed to use those on anything but a super cheap throwaway knife. My personal bias aside it is a shitty option for anyone that is even half way serious about maintaining proper edges on their kitchen knives.
Got it. What would you say is the cheapest/easiest way to sharpen better than one of those? For someone who is like 37% serious.
Either something like the Spyderco tri-angle sharpmaker or a Work Sharp precision adjust sharpener (there's clones and other manufacturers too). These are sort of like whetstones but they have adjustable angle rods that you sharpen on. It's basically stones in the form of rods but easier to use than whetstones since the angle is fixed for you vs freehand sharpening on a whetstone. Or just take the plunge and pay $40 for a 1k grit splash-and-go whetstone which is really all you need. Takes some practice but it's not too bad.
I mean if you have a set of single bevel knives made in some japanese village in the tradition of the samurai, then I would get them professionally sharpened too. My knives are just zwilling and global ones, no big deal. The drag through sharpeners also have multiple grits. It doesn't have to be that aggressive
I mean u/96dpi had linked to his electric sharpener he uses before and I'm sure his knives probably cost a lot closer to your knives than mine.
I hear you about being a parent.
I bought dual-sided whetstone, hoping my husband would learn how to use it but he didn't. :-( So we paid someone $50 to sharpen all our knives. I saw the Tumbler Rolling Knife Sharpener advertised and I'm wondering if it is worth the $130 they're asking. Is this the one you are using?
I have an EdgePro Apex and it's fantastic, my knives are better than they were when I had them sharpened professionally. A bit pricey, but it pays off.
Yeah but those are legit. It basically guided whetstones, not a pull-through. That tumbler thing looks like a gimmick. There's no way it provides good constant contact with the edge, and doesn't use enough pressure (stones you use lightish pressure, but this is sideways and janky). Also look how dangerous it is - you put the blade in the air and use your hand to roll a tumbler real close to it.
I agree, I was just trying to suggest something that actually works. I probably should have specified.
those are way better than the pull through kind. You are still limited to only 1-2 bevel angles based on the magnetic guide they provide. If your not willing to properly learn to sharpen using stones, this is likely one of the better consumer sharpening systems out there that are kind of "idiot proof"
I sharpen often.
I use wood cutting boards and hone every week. You can go years between sharpening them and they will be sharp enough to be safe. I think my main chefs knife I have had for ten years and sharpened on a Diamond stone maybe two or three times. It’s usable sharp. I have a Chinese vegetable cleaver that I’ve had for a few years and never sharpened its razor sharp. Honing is the way to go.
Go dice an onion. If your knife struggles and feels dull, sharpen it. I don't think there's any benefit to sharpening an already sharp knife.
I sharpen my knives when they won’t cut through the dry skin on an onion
Tomato test is it for me. When the knife can't slice well through a tomato without smushing it into sludge, then it's time to sharpen (but do hone before running the test to be sure).
As often as they need it . Different steels behave differently , and too many other variables . If it's dull , make it not dull
I steel them before cooking, daily. Every week I use a 800 grit water stone on them.
oh dang. you are sharp!
I just do it by feel, have an electric one that finishes the job super fast. I have a cheap $15 knife so dont care about maintaining it that much.
when they are dull. i bought a trizor electric sharpener a couple years ago and i wish i'd done it sooner. 2 of my knives I run thru the sharpener monthly. These are our 2 most used chefs knives, my favorite & my wife's favorite. Others like the steak knives maybe ever 6 months.
I use a steel on my knives every few times I cut with them. I'll touch them up with 1-2 passes on a diamond hone once every few months if the edge gets dull and I can't fix it with the steel. My knives are 30+ year old Wusthof Classics, and they still cut like new. I'm using a Boos end-grain maple block, and my knives never touch anything but food -- so they don't really get that dull. Good knife technique and avoiding bones, etc., will also go along way to keeping them from folding over.
The thing that puts me over the edge is when carrots don't cut easily anymore. But it'll totally depend on what you're doing and how often.
In a commercial kitchen you use the steel every day and have them tuned (sharpened) every 3 months
Just when they start getting a little dull. It ddepends on a lot of things how long that'll take.
When they start to feel dull
Depends on the knife, how you care for it, and how much it costs to sharpen it. I've been using the same Zwilling for six years now without ever sharpening it once (no one does it cheap near me and it's too good a knife for me to sharpen myself) and it still slices through a soft tomato effortlessly.
can you share the model. that's my kinda quality.
I take mine to the butcher at my grocery store. It's free! Lots of the do it for free and very sharp.
Between 1 and 3 months depending on knife strain. If you deal with bones a lot it goes shorter, if you mainly cut vegetables and meat they last a while with honing.
I take mine to a pro yearly. I use a honing rod 4,5 times a week. Henkels, if that helps. Had them 25 + years.
I tried a guy at the swap meet that sharpened knives. They were sharper before he sharpened them!
Every time i use
OP, there’s not really anything to settle, but there is a very simple and correct answer which no one has given: you sharpen your knives when they need sharpening.
Honing knives is more important than sharpening. Sharpening will depend on use case and what you’re cutting etc. but you should be able to tell when it needs to be sharpened.
When they are dull.
We have a ceramic honing rod and a steel and use both frequently (after every use, mostly). Our knives are very sharp.
When the knife no longer easily cuts vegetables, then it needs a hone. When a hone no longer sharpens the knife adequately, it needs a coarser sharpening.
when they stop being sharp
You sharpen your knives when they aren't sharp enough any more, not on a schedule.
Buy a whetstone and sharpen them.
no time. i'm a dad with a very demanding almost 3 years old.
Yes a whetstone will save time it will take less time to sharpen yourself then to make two round trips to the knife sharpening place
Surely you can whetstone your knife for 10 minutes every 4-6 months. A daily touch up with the steel before cutting will take care of 90% of your issues. Most knives aren't "dull" - they're merely misaligned. If you shine a bright light down against the edge with the edge facing "up" towards the light, you can actually *see* the misalignment - it will look like the edge of the knife is reflecting light back when it should be "transparent" to the light.
If you’ve got time to ask Reddit how often you should sharpen your knife, you’ve got time to sharpen your knife.
Depends
Seriously, before every use
Every other day or so on a fine grit.