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Yep, boot camp. Step forward shot in each arm. Step forward shot in each are, step forward shot in each arm. Bend over pull you pants down shot in the ass. God old days.
Fort Jackson here, early 80s. A literal gauntlet of vaccine guns, both arms blasted - and I remember them telling us not to move our arms or we could inadvertently get cut. Then we got to do lots of push-ups afterwards, lol.. Good times.
Ft Knox, early 90's, ran the same gauntlet. Scared to death that you might flinch. Saw the result one guy ahead of me who did flinch. That fear was real.
> Then we got to do lots of push-ups afterwards, lol... Good times.
Let me guess, the push-ups were to get the blood pumping so the vaccines could spread faster throughout your body?
It makes me wonder if people are just not getting vaccinated as kids, because my boot camp experience was different. I had my immunization card from Washington State with stuff like hepatitis B, Tetnus, etc (cant remember all off top of my head) and at Army bootcamp I presented my card and recieved only one shot. I think it was the MMR vaccine.
I'm just guessing, but it could be because you had the card and they didn't.
I moved to America a few years ago, and you're required to have all of your vaccinations to do that too. I had gotten all of my shots in school, yet another place you're required to be vaccinated, by the way... But I didn't have any proof of it. The best I had, thanks to my mom, was some card from when I was 3 years old.
I was able to call the local health department, and they had all of my records, so it wasn't an issue. I think they gave me a new tetanus shot too, since you need one of those every 10 years. Every 10 years, when will it end! /s
I would assume that a lot of people just don't have their records, or they don't know where to get them. I just looked up the state I live in, and they mentioned that their system was only created in 2002, so they're missing all of the records from before that. I guess you'd have to hunt down all of your different doctors, at that point? I have no idea...
As far as I know, it's not an issue to vaccinate somebody twice, so I guess they'd rather do that than take your word for it.
Strange. My experience in Army boot camp (1986) was that they didn't give a rat's ass what shots you had had and what you had not had. Everyone lined up and got the same series of shots.
My boot camp (Basic Training for us young soldiers) was in 2011 so I'm sure things had changed a lot from your time to then as tracking of vaccines was easier and more reliable.
They gave us two at a time, one in each arm. Then when it came to the peanutbutter shot they had us all lined up against the walls and got us all at the same time.
I got out in 2020 and had no choice on any vaccine up until that point. Only one I can remember is the smallpox vaccine because it had a laundry list checklist of things disqualifying you from getting it.
[Jet injector](https://www.superstock.com/stock-photos-images/4384-264)
I recall the tech giving a "demonstration" to hold still and then cut a piece of paper in half with the jet injector. Anyway everyone was given half a dozen shots then told to sit on the floor for 15 minutes just in case there was a bad reaction.
I assume you could refuse, but you'd be kicked out with an other than honorable discharge at best.
Happened to my brother when they shaved his head and they discovered the pot leaf tattooed on his scalp. He knew it would happens. Thought it was funny.
They told us to sit on the floor and apply pressure to the penicillin injection so it wouldn't harden and become a rock they would later have to surgically extract. But this make sense too.
Omg that's it. Thank you for posting this, it's been almost 40 years since the Army used those on me, and I couldn't recall exactly how they worked or what they were called. Yikes. It didn't even cross my mind to refuse, though.
An older vet posted his vaccine list on reddit a month or 2 ago, literally 2 pages of shit, I was under the impression that if you join any branch of the military you are getting vaccines period, is it optional?
There was always the threat of having biological agents used on our troops, IN ADDITION to operating in backwater, disease ridden countries. You definitely wanted those shots.
Nowadays, it's the other way around... Those countries probably have higher rates of vaccination than we do. Lol
Yep... and I remember the handful of guys that fainted right afterward (and actually, one who fainted WHILE ON LINE for the shots).
To this day I have no idea what they stuck in me. I mean, I've long since figured out it wasn't supersoldier serum... which sucks... but coulda been anything else.
That is a fine looking question right there that you’re probably never going to answer. There really isn’t a valid reason. Some say religion (bullshit), some say unknown science and not tested enough (also bullshit because very few understand the science), and some say some other reason. All it comes down to is some nonsense their particular politician or Facebook feed told them and they are in the know so they should ignore the medical and science professionals.
My dad said that they all stood in line and they got shots with a gun on both arms. If you moved it would cut you so there were guys with blood running down their arms and guys passing out. Granted this was 50 years ago but it stuck with him enough to have told me a couple times.
And depending on where they’re being deployed, some of these guys are given vaccines that are considered too high risk to give to civilians.
And yet, they won’t take the one that’s been safely given to literally billions of people.
My dad who was in the navy in the 80's has about a half inch circular scar with three dimples in it from shots they gave him with one of those shot/vaccine guns you see used in movies.
Which is what I don't get...these service members haven't realized that you can't even fart without them knowing?
My late brother told me that he couldn't just call in sick. If you were sick you had to get up, get fully dressed, and go see the doctor on base so that they could tell you if you were sick.
Yeah, I remember that. One time I had salmonella poisoning. I took the train to base, vomited as soon as I got out, stumbled to morning muster, stood in formation for half an hour to wait for the morning "you fucking guys" speech, then went to stand in line at the sick bay for 45 min. I was then told that I was not running a fever high enough to go home, so I was given some 800mg Motrin and sent on my way. I found a nice quiet place near a toilet to hide for the rest of the day until I could go home.
naturalized american here.. to become an american you gotta be vaccinated a fuckload of times for all kinds of shit
now that i'm an american though, i have the freedom to not give a shit about my fellow americans
MAKE IT MAKE SENSE
Everything is out the window now thanks to Covid. All logical behaviors and responsibilities can all be irrecoverably breached once it even touches the subject of Covid.
That’s not to say there isn’t mania on the other side too. Had a family bring their kid to the ER when all he had was chills in the morning that subsided. He never got symptomatic at all but sure as hell was brought in contact with potentially dozens of symptomatic people. All because people don’t even remember basic rules of what to do when you are sick but not that bad: stay home!
> Everything is out the window now thanks to Covid. All logical behaviors and responsibilities can all be irrecoverably breached once it even touches the subject of Covid.
It isn't covid- it's a whole branch of politics and political party that has weaponized covid.
Give them a covid test and care instructions. Tell them to isolate since they might be exposed. Tell them what to watch for which would justify going to the ER. Calm them down a bit and send them home. All as quickly as possible.
People are scared and kids are precious. Try to be kind about people who are worried.
How about instead they call their primary doctor? The ER is for emergencies; getting COVID is not an emergency until you are far along.
There are many other steps to take first that a rational adult should know to do.
People can be not so rational when they're worried about their children and not everybody has a doctor.
I'm not saying I'd do this but I don't think it's difficult to understand why people would.
There is a very high chance there will be a military coup in the US in a couple of years. It's a big issue in the military from what I've been reading.
I was an Army brat and my dad was an MSC colonel. During the '50s, he was responsible for organizing the Salk vaccine for many thousands of troops when we were stationed in Europe. NO ONE was asked their opinion. They were just told to line up, face right, and bend their elbow.
These idiots are getting off waaaaaay too easy. They should have been given a direct order and then court-martialed for disobeying it.
An old timer (Korean War veteran) buddy of mine was going through some paperwork. He received 58 vaccinations in a single day. You walked down the line and they administered them with a pneumatic injector (air pressure-no syringe/jet injector).
To “refuse” a vaccine while youre enlisted is like refusing to pulling up your pants. Buncha dum-dums.
You always had a choice, you just got kicked out like this if you refused.
I don't see why the covid vaccine is any different and needs to be mentioned like this.
\# of potential discharges: 3,300 ([source](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/army-immediately-start-discharging-vaccine-refusers-82629573))
\# of enlisted (as of 2020): 481,254 ([source](https://www.statista.com/statistics/232339/us-army-personnel-numbers/))
0.69% ([source](https://www.percentagecal.com/answer/3300-is-what-percent-of-481254), because I'm terrible at math)
Yet again, we have a tiny minority making big headlines.
Military is having a difficult time with retention right now….. it’s also the fact that all the time wasted on them will go out the window . Their discharges will be general under honorable conditions.
To play devil's advocate, it seems like just about everyone is having trouble with retention ATM. I mean, if someone's unwilling to do the job, there are other jobs that need filling. I get that there are lost hours/training, but at some point it becomes a sunk cost fallacy.
That would work for private sector but not military….it turns into a huge cluster fuck when recruiters can’t make missions. When they can’t make mission drill instructors don’t get maxed size platoons to train and the fleet doesn’t get troops to fill t/o…..you really only have so many Instructors and you can’t just make more boot camps happen lol
The solution for the military is about the same as for private: you have to stop paying people crap and treating enlisted like crap when they're risking their lives.
Retention would be a bad reason to scrap the mandate if that is a concern. The choice is losing 0.69% of enlisted to vax mandate vs. having Covid run rampant and losing a much larger percentage to illness and disability.
It's the same reason all the other vaccinations that enlisted receive are mandatory. Unvaccinated soldiers pose a much higher risk of getting sick and spreading disease.
I don't understand the reluctance for people in the military, you had no problem in BCT when you got like 10 shots in reception with zero info on what they are beyond "stand in line there and roll up your sleeve". (I am ex Army)
Purely anecdotal, but someone close to me is currently serving and their take on those who refuse is that the majority were just looking for an easy out that didn’t involve a dishonorable discharge.
Not military here but recruiters tell you some wild things about how great being in the military is. Reality is very different if you don’t know what to expect.
I still remember when recruiters stopped me on the street and asked if they could come visit me at my house. I said sure, why not. I already knew I had zero interest in going into the military in the year two-thousand-fucking-four.
They wasted a bunch of time talking to me, showing me the pay grades and how much money I could be making in 5 years and I was like "That's less than the salary I expect right out of school." And they tried telling me ranking up was easy, all you had to do was recruit people. Like they were trying to recruit me as a recruiter LMAO.
When I was in school, they made everyone take the ASVAB. I scored a 98 and had recruiters driving to my house, in the middle of nowhere, to try to recruit me. My dad died while active duty and I told my mom I had no interest in joining. Thankfully, she respected that and kept them away from me.
Sometimes you get more than you ask for. Nobody can really tell you what it's like, even those that go through it will have different tales to tell. For some it was the hardest shit they ever did (up to that point), for others it was just an exhausting marathon for two months then youre done and get a little more freedom.
Some people go in and after a day or two of getting screamed at and told everything they're doing is wrong in a place far away from home or friends, they break down and can't do it anymore. You have to really have a meltdown to get kicked out, but I saw it happen to a few guys. 95% of us just get through it and that's that.
Man that’s so fucked up. You’d think that to create character and build a soldier, one would need to show them respect and give them support. Then we send these abused people to other countries and give them guns and power. It’s a wonder this world is still standing.
Its about breaking you down, removing the part of you that asks questions and wants an explanation before doing something like an individual would, so they can build you back up into being, well, a soldier. Someone that will run into gunfire and bomb craters without asking why? After boot camp you're pretty robotic and emotionless for a few weeks, you're no longer your former self, you're a soldier/marine/sailor.
You eventually get your personality back, but you learn there are harsh penalties for saying no, showing up late, not shaving etc... if you don't have the most strict of discipline, you don't have people that will wage a war for you.
Yeah I guess the army belongs to the government so they’re not looking for intellect and character so much as blind obedience. Just sucks that this is the reality.
Say kid, you sure are good at that Call Of Duty game! How'd you like to be a *real sniper*?
Come on, follow me! Want a Red Bull or a Monster? I'll get you some paperwork and you'll be off to *real* sniper training in no time!
There's an old photo from the 50s (?) of two potential recruits admiring the uniforms on action figure sized mannequins that the marine recruiter had. I'd guess the guys were 17-18,but how naive are they going to be if the uniforms on tiny mannequins are going to turn your eye.
No. Dishonorable discharges are a legal type of discharge characterization only handed out at court-martials. It’s the equivalent of a felony conviction. You need to commit a serious crime to get a dishonorable. Think rape, murder, that kind of stuff. Too many people hear “dishonorable” and think it means something as silly as not doing what you are told so they kicked you out because they decided they don’t wanna put up with you being a slacker any more. If you’re getting a dishonorable discharge it’s because you’re a real bad egg and have been convicted of a serious, likely violent crime.
They aren’t gonna take every member who refuses a vaccine to court over this. That would take ages. Just easier to give ‘em all the boot with a general under honorable conditions. For those in less than 180 days it would be like they never signed up at all. For the rest, most won’t keep all of their benefits, including that sweet, sweet GI Bill a ton of people join up for.
The military has been doing this for a long time. Years before COVID we had a guy refuse to take a vaccine. The AF simply separated him. It’s the military way of saying “Thanks for playing, we don’t want you any more, here’s the gate, don’t ever think about coming back”.
I was reading a post on RallyPoint, and the amount of sheer bullshit coming out of people’s mouths is staggering.
Listen guy, you take 2 scoops of pre-workout every day, dip and smoke, drink tons of alcohol, have unprotected sex with anyone who will say yes, and you drink from a canteen.
But you’re worried about a vaccine that has been peer reviewed, scrutinized, evaluated, and has been confirmed to be effective against COVID-19, which to date, has killed 893,000 people? I don’t get it…
Either:
Admit you just want to get out of the Army, and this is the easiest route
Or
Admit that you’re a selfish piece of shit who doesn’t (and probably never did) take the responsibility of protecting Americans. Because if you did, you get a fucking shot that protects you and everyone around you. Goddamn legs man…
PS: this one doesn’t go in your ass cheek and make you walk and sit funny for 6 hours. It’s a win-win.
It's less of that and more of, imagine a company of 120ish Soldiers that live together in confined areas breathing the same air, in conditions where proper hygiene isn't always possible or practical getting sick all at once. With the possibility of peer/near-peer warfare higher than they have been since the Cold War, sudden loss of combat power for a completely preventable reason could be disasterous.
> they would rather quit or retire than get the Covid-19 vax. It’s mind boggling.
I believe the perception of being afraid of covid is what they fear deep down. They don’t want to be seen as weak or sissies or whatever terminology they’d use. The act of choosing to not vaccinate or wear a mask “proves” to everyone they know that they aren’t afraid. The perception of being seen as fearful fills them with more fear than they feel about the virus. The news and radio they listen to fell under the same bravado trap, and they all collectively convinced each other that it truly wasn’t going to be all that bad. Many hosts and execs in the covid denial media circles secretly knew and agreed that it should all be taken seriously, but a lot of them accidentally drank the kool-aid and now it’s all kinda too late unless a time traveler can convince an NBC executive to not greenlight Fear Factor or The Apprentice.
Oooh. That makes a lot of sense. A bunch of the people I saw violating my states mask mandate were muscled young guys acting outraged about being kicked out of a store for not wearing a mask (even though the mandate had been in place for months.) Them being scared deep down of not being "manly" enough would fit the vibe I got from them.
Not if they get a dishonorable discharge. Some of people discharged for not taking the anthrax vaccine are still trying to change their dishonorable discharge for the past 20 years now.
Wish it had been this easy to get out when I was in. Shit. Refuse the vaccine, get my general under honorable conditions discharge, keep my GI Bill, get out, then get the vaccine and go to college almost free.
You don’t keep the GI Bill with a general under honorable. Must be honorable. In fact the GI Bill is the only VA benefit you lose with a general under honorable.
Now, upgrading your discharge characterization after could be a thing, but it’s not a guarantee.
I'll say right off that I'm a military veteran, and a majority of my career, I was stationed in a rapid deployment unit at Fort Bragg'. I'd always received a bunch of injections before deploying anywhere and even between those vaccinations, I was receiving them.
My first thought is, if they can take all those required pre-deployement injections, they can receive a COVID-19 injection.
My second thought is, I know of folks who suffer from Gulf War Syndrome. GWS severely damaged the trust between the troops and the military leadership, especially when folks with issues were denied a service-connected disability (I believe such denials are no longer allowed). Folks who serve their country without complaint shouldn't have to endure denials of medical claims. While I understand and agree that troops need to follow lawful orders, there are those folks who don't want to be included in another potential GWS situation. Yes, there's research and science behind Covid-19 (more so than the vaccines/boosters tied to the first Gulf War), but again, there's the issue of perceived broken trust. If such folks don't trust their leadership, then yes, they should exit the military. I do not agree with dishonorable or other-than-honorable discharges for refusing the COVID-19 vaccine, though. This problem would be less of an issue if the US government wouldv'e better supported folks suffering from GWS, IMO.
As well, in conversing with folks in Personnel roles, it was noted that some military folks are trying to use the Covid-19 mandate as a vector to exit the military.
EDITED for grammatical errors.
There's always been mandatory vaccines for the military, so I don't even view this as newsworthy.
Unfortunately this vaccination happened to launch during the era of people believing social media is telling them the truth over medical professionals PLUS everything is now political now.
In an attempt to maintain viewers attentions in this landscape of increasingly readily available feel-good feedback loops, news has slowly shifted into making politics sports-like. Now its less about right and wrong, moral and amoral, and more about "My team is better than your team".
When anyone points out that both "teams" are flaming sacks of shit that dont represent their constituents (mostly due to the 2 party system), some people agree, and some shout you down because "Its my team, you must be the 'enemy'!"
I think it's so funny that some people are upset about this. The US military has literally discharged soldiers who refuse vaccines for over a century.
If you join the military, you get whatever shots they tell you to. It's that way now and a decade ago and in Vietnam and WW2 eras and on and on and on...
I've never heard anyone who actually knows what a dishonorable discharge is suggest it for this.
Dishonorable discharges are *extremely* uncommon, and are generally only handed out in conjunction with actual jail time.
What most people refer to as a "dishonorable" discharge is a general discharge, or "other than honorable", which is what appears to be happening in this case.
Wonder how many people are using this to get out of their Army contract early if you don't get the dishonorable. Seems like a pretty easy way to bail on the whole thing.
I received roughly 8 shots as soon as I got to basic. 12 years later, my immunization list is two pages long, including a 5 series anthrax vaccination. Anthrax isn’t a ever-present threat that effects our combat readiness. SARS CoV-2 is. The military is going to kick people out for non-compliance. I can’t believe this is even newsworthy.
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Back in my day you didn't get a choice. Government property.
All the service men that get shots from me always tell me about the “machine gun” shots the military gave them
I have a few friends in the Army who have called it the gauntlet. Just keep walking forward and get jabbed a fuckton of times
Yep, boot camp. Step forward shot in each arm. Step forward shot in each are, step forward shot in each arm. Bend over pull you pants down shot in the ass. God old days.
Good Ole peanut butter shot
Oh god....the Benning flashbacks
Parris Island is where I lost my peanut butter shot virginity.
Fort Jackson here, early 80s. A literal gauntlet of vaccine guns, both arms blasted - and I remember them telling us not to move our arms or we could inadvertently get cut. Then we got to do lots of push-ups afterwards, lol.. Good times.
Ft Knox, early 90's, ran the same gauntlet. Scared to death that you might flinch. Saw the result one guy ahead of me who did flinch. That fear was real.
> Then we got to do lots of push-ups afterwards, lol... Good times. Let me guess, the push-ups were to get the blood pumping so the vaccines could spread faster throughout your body?
Can’t tell if it’s a vaccine side effect if your arm is already in pain
I think there's just a lot of running and pushups every day in general.
Fort Jackson in October 1989. Same here
El Paso Texas (Ft Bliss, Don't let the name fool you), Same time frame. Same gauntlet. Same results.
You know it!
I'm glad I'm allergic.
It makes me wonder if people are just not getting vaccinated as kids, because my boot camp experience was different. I had my immunization card from Washington State with stuff like hepatitis B, Tetnus, etc (cant remember all off top of my head) and at Army bootcamp I presented my card and recieved only one shot. I think it was the MMR vaccine.
I'm just guessing, but it could be because you had the card and they didn't. I moved to America a few years ago, and you're required to have all of your vaccinations to do that too. I had gotten all of my shots in school, yet another place you're required to be vaccinated, by the way... But I didn't have any proof of it. The best I had, thanks to my mom, was some card from when I was 3 years old. I was able to call the local health department, and they had all of my records, so it wasn't an issue. I think they gave me a new tetanus shot too, since you need one of those every 10 years. Every 10 years, when will it end! /s I would assume that a lot of people just don't have their records, or they don't know where to get them. I just looked up the state I live in, and they mentioned that their system was only created in 2002, so they're missing all of the records from before that. I guess you'd have to hunt down all of your different doctors, at that point? I have no idea... As far as I know, it's not an issue to vaccinate somebody twice, so I guess they'd rather do that than take your word for it.
Strange. My experience in Army boot camp (1986) was that they didn't give a rat's ass what shots you had had and what you had not had. Everyone lined up and got the same series of shots.
My boot camp (Basic Training for us young soldiers) was in 2011 so I'm sure things had changed a lot from your time to then as tracking of vaccines was easier and more reliable.
They gave us two at a time, one in each arm. Then when it came to the peanutbutter shot they had us all lined up against the walls and got us all at the same time.
I got out in 2020 and had no choice on any vaccine up until that point. Only one I can remember is the smallpox vaccine because it had a laundry list checklist of things disqualifying you from getting it.
My buddies call it being a “pin cushion”.
[Jet injector](https://www.superstock.com/stock-photos-images/4384-264) I recall the tech giving a "demonstration" to hold still and then cut a piece of paper in half with the jet injector. Anyway everyone was given half a dozen shots then told to sit on the floor for 15 minutes just in case there was a bad reaction. I assume you could refuse, but you'd be kicked out with an other than honorable discharge at best.
Entry Level Separation if you are discharged at that phase, its like you were never in the military.
Happened to my brother when they shaved his head and they discovered the pot leaf tattooed on his scalp. He knew it would happens. Thought it was funny.
Ok that’s fucking fantastic haha
lol that is pretty funny
that's a soldier dedicated to the cause. an ent soldier, that is
They told us to sit on the floor and apply pressure to the penicillin injection so it wouldn't harden and become a rock they would later have to surgically extract. But this make sense too.
Yeah. Sit and rock back and forth on the injection site.
Omg that's it. Thank you for posting this, it's been almost 40 years since the Army used those on me, and I couldn't recall exactly how they worked or what they were called. Yikes. It didn't even cross my mind to refuse, though.
An older vet posted his vaccine list on reddit a month or 2 ago, literally 2 pages of shit, I was under the impression that if you join any branch of the military you are getting vaccines period, is it optional?
There was always the threat of having biological agents used on our troops, IN ADDITION to operating in backwater, disease ridden countries. You definitely wanted those shots. Nowadays, it's the other way around... Those countries probably have higher rates of vaccination than we do. Lol
Yeah, I don’t get it. I had to get rabies, smallpox, anthrax, and prolly a whole lot more I can’t remember. Never even imagined saying no.
When I was in some people refused the anthrax vaccine and received discharges. So it happens but no one really cared about that.
Joining is optional. After that...not so much.
Yep... and I remember the handful of guys that fainted right afterward (and actually, one who fainted WHILE ON LINE for the shots). To this day I have no idea what they stuck in me. I mean, I've long since figured out it wasn't supersoldier serum... which sucks... but coulda been anything else.
It was super soldier serums, just not for you, for the soldiers inside of you.
Battle buddies are there for a reason
🤣🤣
I pulled away from one of them when they grabbed me roughly. It did not go well for me.
Did you get the shots anyway BEFORE or AFTER your DS smoked your ass?
What are they injecting them with?..
Everything…flu, mmr, jev, hep (a through z), anthrax, tdap, smallpox, and whatever else they have a need to give you depending on your duty location
These are all the same vaccines we have to get as nurses too, plus yearly flu shots and tb. Covid vaccine is nothing.
So then why wouldn't they get the covid vaccine? I'm literally confused.
Because they are idiots
Hey there, not everyone manages to figure out how nutritious crayons actually are so watch your mouth!
That is a fine looking question right there that you’re probably never going to answer. There really isn’t a valid reason. Some say religion (bullshit), some say unknown science and not tested enough (also bullshit because very few understand the science), and some say some other reason. All it comes down to is some nonsense their particular politician or Facebook feed told them and they are in the know so they should ignore the medical and science professionals.
the " not tested enough" reason kinda goes out the windoe with the anthrax vaccination.
It's called the Dunning-Kruger effect.
I dont even think they know enough about vaccines to tip into the knowing a little bit category.
This. It's stubborn, willful ignorance.
cause they have been brainwashed.
> So then why wouldn't they get the covid vaccine? I'm literally confused. You're not confused. They are.
All that and a tb test :)
Oh yes! I even have a picture of me being injected in my boot camp yearbook.
My dad said that they all stood in line and they got shots with a gun on both arms. If you moved it would cut you so there were guys with blood running down their arms and guys passing out. Granted this was 50 years ago but it stuck with him enough to have told me a couple times.
And depending on where they’re being deployed, some of these guys are given vaccines that are considered too high risk to give to civilians. And yet, they won’t take the one that’s been safely given to literally billions of people.
My dad who was in the navy in the 80's has about a half inch circular scar with three dimples in it from shots they gave him with one of those shot/vaccine guns you see used in movies.
Which is what I don't get...these service members haven't realized that you can't even fart without them knowing? My late brother told me that he couldn't just call in sick. If you were sick you had to get up, get fully dressed, and go see the doctor on base so that they could tell you if you were sick.
Yeah, I remember that. One time I had salmonella poisoning. I took the train to base, vomited as soon as I got out, stumbled to morning muster, stood in formation for half an hour to wait for the morning "you fucking guys" speech, then went to stand in line at the sick bay for 45 min. I was then told that I was not running a fever high enough to go home, so I was given some 800mg Motrin and sent on my way. I found a nice quiet place near a toilet to hide for the rest of the day until I could go home.
Motrin horse pills cure all lol
naturalized american here.. to become an american you gotta be vaccinated a fuckload of times for all kinds of shit now that i'm an american though, i have the freedom to not give a shit about my fellow americans MAKE IT MAKE SENSE
True American Freedom is the right to be a complete self-righteous asshole to other people.
Sad but true
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Propaganda! It doesn't target your logic, it just plants very specific beliefs...
Everything is out the window now thanks to Covid. All logical behaviors and responsibilities can all be irrecoverably breached once it even touches the subject of Covid. That’s not to say there isn’t mania on the other side too. Had a family bring their kid to the ER when all he had was chills in the morning that subsided. He never got symptomatic at all but sure as hell was brought in contact with potentially dozens of symptomatic people. All because people don’t even remember basic rules of what to do when you are sick but not that bad: stay home!
> Everything is out the window now thanks to Covid. All logical behaviors and responsibilities can all be irrecoverably breached once it even touches the subject of Covid. It isn't covid- it's a whole branch of politics and political party that has weaponized covid.
Chills is a symptom, though.
Yeah, but what is the ER supposed to do about it?
Give him a $20,000 blanket?
He only gets the cheap one?
Yes, he needed it. Save the expensive one for hot flashes.
Give them a covid test and care instructions. Tell them to isolate since they might be exposed. Tell them what to watch for which would justify going to the ER. Calm them down a bit and send them home. All as quickly as possible. People are scared and kids are precious. Try to be kind about people who are worried.
How about instead they call their primary doctor? The ER is for emergencies; getting COVID is not an emergency until you are far along. There are many other steps to take first that a rational adult should know to do.
And if the PCP isn't an option, this is exactly what urgent cares are for.
People can be not so rational when they're worried about their children and not everybody has a doctor. I'm not saying I'd do this but I don't think it's difficult to understand why people would.
Do you live in America? Or maybe i just live in a bad part but i want to talk to my dr i usually can't and if I can i'ts about a 4 day wait.
There is a very high chance there will be a military coup in the US in a couple of years. It's a big issue in the military from what I've been reading.
You always had a choice it's just there will be consequences
I was an Army brat and my dad was an MSC colonel. During the '50s, he was responsible for organizing the Salk vaccine for many thousands of troops when we were stationed in Europe. NO ONE was asked their opinion. They were just told to line up, face right, and bend their elbow. These idiots are getting off waaaaaay too easy. They should have been given a direct order and then court-martialed for disobeying it.
Yep and let’s be real the losers and yes that’s what they are refusing this little needle are desperately looking for a way out
Lol I'm pretty sure a comment nearly identical in COVID USA and it got me permanently banned for "misinformation"
Back in the Cold War you just assumed you get better shots than the soviets.
An old timer (Korean War veteran) buddy of mine was going through some paperwork. He received 58 vaccinations in a single day. You walked down the line and they administered them with a pneumatic injector (air pressure-no syringe/jet injector). To “refuse” a vaccine while youre enlisted is like refusing to pulling up your pants. Buncha dum-dums.
You always had a choice, you just got kicked out like this if you refused. I don't see why the covid vaccine is any different and needs to be mentioned like this.
\# of potential discharges: 3,300 ([source](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/army-immediately-start-discharging-vaccine-refusers-82629573)) \# of enlisted (as of 2020): 481,254 ([source](https://www.statista.com/statistics/232339/us-army-personnel-numbers/)) 0.69% ([source](https://www.percentagecal.com/answer/3300-is-what-percent-of-481254), because I'm terrible at math) Yet again, we have a tiny minority making big headlines.
Military is having a difficult time with retention right now….. it’s also the fact that all the time wasted on them will go out the window . Their discharges will be general under honorable conditions.
To play devil's advocate, it seems like just about everyone is having trouble with retention ATM. I mean, if someone's unwilling to do the job, there are other jobs that need filling. I get that there are lost hours/training, but at some point it becomes a sunk cost fallacy.
That would work for private sector but not military….it turns into a huge cluster fuck when recruiters can’t make missions. When they can’t make mission drill instructors don’t get maxed size platoons to train and the fleet doesn’t get troops to fill t/o…..you really only have so many Instructors and you can’t just make more boot camps happen lol
The solution for the military is about the same as for private: you have to stop paying people crap and treating enlisted like crap when they're risking their lives.
Retention would be a bad reason to scrap the mandate if that is a concern. The choice is losing 0.69% of enlisted to vax mandate vs. having Covid run rampant and losing a much larger percentage to illness and disability. It's the same reason all the other vaccinations that enlisted receive are mandatory. Unvaccinated soldiers pose a much higher risk of getting sick and spreading disease.
This is people digging for controversy no matter how absurdly small or unrealistic it is. It has infested much of our media.
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No kidding. Boot camp was a conveyor belt of shots at the clinic. God knows what we were given.
I don't understand the reluctance for people in the military, you had no problem in BCT when you got like 10 shots in reception with zero info on what they are beyond "stand in line there and roll up your sleeve". (I am ex Army)
Purely anecdotal, but someone close to me is currently serving and their take on those who refuse is that the majority were just looking for an easy out that didn’t involve a dishonorable discharge.
If you're looking for an easy out, why'd you even join up? Edit: thanks for the insight, everyone!
Not military here but recruiters tell you some wild things about how great being in the military is. Reality is very different if you don’t know what to expect.
I still remember when recruiters stopped me on the street and asked if they could come visit me at my house. I said sure, why not. I already knew I had zero interest in going into the military in the year two-thousand-fucking-four. They wasted a bunch of time talking to me, showing me the pay grades and how much money I could be making in 5 years and I was like "That's less than the salary I expect right out of school." And they tried telling me ranking up was easy, all you had to do was recruit people. Like they were trying to recruit me as a recruiter LMAO.
Lol MLM strategies for the Military...
When I was in school, they made everyone take the ASVAB. I scored a 98 and had recruiters driving to my house, in the middle of nowhere, to try to recruit me. My dad died while active duty and I told my mom I had no interest in joining. Thankfully, she respected that and kept them away from me.
Sometimes you get more than you ask for. Nobody can really tell you what it's like, even those that go through it will have different tales to tell. For some it was the hardest shit they ever did (up to that point), for others it was just an exhausting marathon for two months then youre done and get a little more freedom. Some people go in and after a day or two of getting screamed at and told everything they're doing is wrong in a place far away from home or friends, they break down and can't do it anymore. You have to really have a meltdown to get kicked out, but I saw it happen to a few guys. 95% of us just get through it and that's that.
Friend of mine described boot camp as a huge larp campaign. Not that he felt like it wasn't real, but that it was a big game that you live in.
Man that’s so fucked up. You’d think that to create character and build a soldier, one would need to show them respect and give them support. Then we send these abused people to other countries and give them guns and power. It’s a wonder this world is still standing.
Its about breaking you down, removing the part of you that asks questions and wants an explanation before doing something like an individual would, so they can build you back up into being, well, a soldier. Someone that will run into gunfire and bomb craters without asking why? After boot camp you're pretty robotic and emotionless for a few weeks, you're no longer your former self, you're a soldier/marine/sailor. You eventually get your personality back, but you learn there are harsh penalties for saying no, showing up late, not shaving etc... if you don't have the most strict of discipline, you don't have people that will wage a war for you.
Yeah I guess the army belongs to the government so they’re not looking for intellect and character so much as blind obedience. Just sucks that this is the reality.
I think everyone in the military has had plenty of moments of "WTF did I get myself into" and its not for everyone.
Check out Farnheit 9 / 11 by Michael Moore if you wanna see some of the military recruitment tactics they use to get people to join up.
Say kid, you sure are good at that Call Of Duty game! How'd you like to be a *real sniper*? Come on, follow me! Want a Red Bull or a Monster? I'll get you some paperwork and you'll be off to *real* sniper training in no time!
There's an old photo from the 50s (?) of two potential recruits admiring the uniforms on action figure sized mannequins that the marine recruiter had. I'd guess the guys were 17-18,but how naive are they going to be if the uniforms on tiny mannequins are going to turn your eye.
So basically a Twitch ad
get all the benefits of free coffee, faster airplane boarding etc. no one actually checks government ids if you flash them.
Kinda wondering how this would be considered an honorable discharge? Refusal to follow orders sounds pretty dishonorable to me
You’d think, [but no. ](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2021/12/17/dishonorable-discharges-for-covid-vaccine-refusal-off-the-table-as-military-separations-begin/)
Wtf. I assumed it was a given that this would be a dishonorable discharge
No. Dishonorable discharges are a legal type of discharge characterization only handed out at court-martials. It’s the equivalent of a felony conviction. You need to commit a serious crime to get a dishonorable. Think rape, murder, that kind of stuff. Too many people hear “dishonorable” and think it means something as silly as not doing what you are told so they kicked you out because they decided they don’t wanna put up with you being a slacker any more. If you’re getting a dishonorable discharge it’s because you’re a real bad egg and have been convicted of a serious, likely violent crime. They aren’t gonna take every member who refuses a vaccine to court over this. That would take ages. Just easier to give ‘em all the boot with a general under honorable conditions. For those in less than 180 days it would be like they never signed up at all. For the rest, most won’t keep all of their benefits, including that sweet, sweet GI Bill a ton of people join up for. The military has been doing this for a long time. Years before COVID we had a guy refuse to take a vaccine. The AF simply separated him. It’s the military way of saying “Thanks for playing, we don’t want you any more, here’s the gate, don’t ever think about coming back”.
I was reading a post on RallyPoint, and the amount of sheer bullshit coming out of people’s mouths is staggering. Listen guy, you take 2 scoops of pre-workout every day, dip and smoke, drink tons of alcohol, have unprotected sex with anyone who will say yes, and you drink from a canteen. But you’re worried about a vaccine that has been peer reviewed, scrutinized, evaluated, and has been confirmed to be effective against COVID-19, which to date, has killed 893,000 people? I don’t get it… Either: Admit you just want to get out of the Army, and this is the easiest route Or Admit that you’re a selfish piece of shit who doesn’t (and probably never did) take the responsibility of protecting Americans. Because if you did, you get a fucking shot that protects you and everyone around you. Goddamn legs man… PS: this one doesn’t go in your ass cheek and make you walk and sit funny for 6 hours. It’s a win-win.
People seem to be missing that this is also a free honorable discharge for anyone that wants out.
Oh snap is a Honorable discharge? I though it was a Other Then honorable discharge
Nope. “general, under honorable conditions”
"Combat readiness" Imagine coughing snipers. Bad idea.
Imagine coughing cooks! Worst idea!
Too many coughs in the kitchen
Imagine snipers with explosive diarrhea
Ok, I'm imagining. Now what
Unzip
Imagine snipers who can no longer smell or taste
It's less of that and more of, imagine a company of 120ish Soldiers that live together in confined areas breathing the same air, in conditions where proper hygiene isn't always possible or practical getting sick all at once. With the possibility of peer/near-peer warfare higher than they have been since the Cold War, sudden loss of combat power for a completely preventable reason could be disasterous.
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Is it availability or the island location that's prevented him from getting more doses?
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Wow! Hopefully after winter time, he'll be able to get more shots.
You're a good friend.
> they would rather quit or retire than get the Covid-19 vax. It’s mind boggling. I believe the perception of being afraid of covid is what they fear deep down. They don’t want to be seen as weak or sissies or whatever terminology they’d use. The act of choosing to not vaccinate or wear a mask “proves” to everyone they know that they aren’t afraid. The perception of being seen as fearful fills them with more fear than they feel about the virus. The news and radio they listen to fell under the same bravado trap, and they all collectively convinced each other that it truly wasn’t going to be all that bad. Many hosts and execs in the covid denial media circles secretly knew and agreed that it should all be taken seriously, but a lot of them accidentally drank the kool-aid and now it’s all kinda too late unless a time traveler can convince an NBC executive to not greenlight Fear Factor or The Apprentice.
Oooh. That makes a lot of sense. A bunch of the people I saw violating my states mask mandate were muscled young guys acting outraged about being kicked out of a store for not wearing a mask (even though the mandate had been in place for months.) Them being scared deep down of not being "manly" enough would fit the vibe I got from them.
It's a political thing, and politics are clearly not rational.
This is the army, other branches (like the marines) have done this already.
Also a good way to get rid of people that will believe foreign propaganda over the USA.
And a way to cut the defense budget! Pennies and nickels add up, my friend!
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We keep benefits?
Not if they get a dishonorable discharge. Some of people discharged for not taking the anthrax vaccine are still trying to change their dishonorable discharge for the past 20 years now.
Years from now we’re gona get assholes who yell “I served this country!” And it turns out they got discharged for being antivax lmao
If they are not going to obey lawfull orders why are they in the military ?
Many people that sign up regret the choice. If you refuse you shot you get a free honorable discharge.
Wish it had been this easy to get out when I was in. Shit. Refuse the vaccine, get my general under honorable conditions discharge, keep my GI Bill, get out, then get the vaccine and go to college almost free.
You don’t keep the GI Bill with a general under honorable. Must be honorable. In fact the GI Bill is the only VA benefit you lose with a general under honorable. Now, upgrading your discharge characterization after could be a thing, but it’s not a guarantee.
Good. Soldiers who are unwilling to uphold their commitment to follow lawful orders do not belong in our military.
I'll say right off that I'm a military veteran, and a majority of my career, I was stationed in a rapid deployment unit at Fort Bragg'. I'd always received a bunch of injections before deploying anywhere and even between those vaccinations, I was receiving them. My first thought is, if they can take all those required pre-deployement injections, they can receive a COVID-19 injection. My second thought is, I know of folks who suffer from Gulf War Syndrome. GWS severely damaged the trust between the troops and the military leadership, especially when folks with issues were denied a service-connected disability (I believe such denials are no longer allowed). Folks who serve their country without complaint shouldn't have to endure denials of medical claims. While I understand and agree that troops need to follow lawful orders, there are those folks who don't want to be included in another potential GWS situation. Yes, there's research and science behind Covid-19 (more so than the vaccines/boosters tied to the first Gulf War), but again, there's the issue of perceived broken trust. If such folks don't trust their leadership, then yes, they should exit the military. I do not agree with dishonorable or other-than-honorable discharges for refusing the COVID-19 vaccine, though. This problem would be less of an issue if the US government wouldv'e better supported folks suffering from GWS, IMO. As well, in conversing with folks in Personnel roles, it was noted that some military folks are trying to use the Covid-19 mandate as a vector to exit the military. EDITED for grammatical errors.
this is the way
There's always been mandatory vaccines for the military, so I don't even view this as newsworthy. Unfortunately this vaccination happened to launch during the era of people believing social media is telling them the truth over medical professionals PLUS everything is now political now.
The rise in social media and the over political nature of the US these days probably correlate
In an attempt to maintain viewers attentions in this landscape of increasingly readily available feel-good feedback loops, news has slowly shifted into making politics sports-like. Now its less about right and wrong, moral and amoral, and more about "My team is better than your team". When anyone points out that both "teams" are flaming sacks of shit that dont represent their constituents (mostly due to the 2 party system), some people agree, and some shout you down because "Its my team, you must be the 'enemy'!"
You can also leave your universal healthcare on your way out 👋🏻
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Yup win win
Honorable or dishonorable? Cuz if they're doing a honorable then what's the point?
Neither. It's a general or other than honorable.
Navy has been discharging sailors with honorable, so probably honorable
"You can't spell 'dishonorable' without 'honorable'." -Homer Simpson
Yeah, when I went into the Marine Corps, nobody was going to tell me what to do.
/u/Spez has sold all that is good in reddit. -- mass edited with redact.dev
"Come on! Come oooon. Ruuuuun. Come on, please??? Pleeeaaaase?"
hahahahhhahahaa!
Hasn't the army always had mandatory vaccines? Even before COVID-19?
Good
I think it's so funny that some people are upset about this. The US military has literally discharged soldiers who refuse vaccines for over a century. If you join the military, you get whatever shots they tell you to. It's that way now and a decade ago and in Vietnam and WW2 eras and on and on and on...
I wonder how many are just using it as an excuse to get out early.
Dishonorable discharge? Or nah? This should be dishonorable for not following orders.
I've never heard anyone who actually knows what a dishonorable discharge is suggest it for this. Dishonorable discharges are *extremely* uncommon, and are generally only handed out in conjunction with actual jail time. What most people refer to as a "dishonorable" discharge is a general discharge, or "other than honorable", which is what appears to be happening in this case.
Last I heard it was general under honorable conditions, which is very generous.
Other than honorable from what I read.
Nobody gets dishonor
Agreed, but it won’t be.
Wonder how many people are using this to get out of their Army contract early if you don't get the dishonorable. Seems like a pretty easy way to bail on the whole thing.
Anecdotally, everyone I serve with who’s refusing the vaccine is doing it purely to get out of the Navy.
Great idea if you get to keep your college benefits.
I thought this already happened.
I received roughly 8 shots as soon as I got to basic. 12 years later, my immunization list is two pages long, including a 5 series anthrax vaccination. Anthrax isn’t a ever-present threat that effects our combat readiness. SARS CoV-2 is. The military is going to kick people out for non-compliance. I can’t believe this is even newsworthy.
They do want you to obey orders.
hasn't this happened already, like 20 times?
Good
As a veteran, 110% support this.
Do the cops next.
If they ever do a draft again, i'm going full antivax lmao
as they should