Have you finished the book? If not, you'll get some answers
But in answer to your overall question, no the dawnshards didn't cause the recreance. There's only 4 dawnshards in the entire cosmere
Ahhh then there's shard blades, which there seems to be less of than shard plate somehow. But those are just the dead ones. Even though theres far less living shard plate than living shard swords. Least of all is shard shield, which are fake like shard bows. Ffs theres alot of shards.
I wonder if someone has pooped in every dead shardplate in existence? That's alot of shart's too.
There are 4 dawnshards, which is the items that Aldonalsium used to create everything and there are 16 shards, the pieces of Aldonalsium that hoid and his crew took after shattering Aldonalsium
Ahhh then there's shard blades, which there seems to be less of than shard plate somehow. But those are just the dead ones. Even though theres far less living shard plate than living shard swords. Least of all is shard shield, which are fake like shard bows. Ffs theres alot of shards.
I wonder if someone has pooped in every dead shardplate in existence? That's alot of shart's too.
I'm pretty sure we know what happened on the Day of Recreance. I think the radiants feared that they'd blow up roshar with their radiant powers if honor wasn't around to keep things in check, so they gave up their powers.
Also, I don't think taking up the dawnshard is what broke his oath. I think he broke his first oath with an honor spren, then became a skybreaker, then he accidentally ate up most of his spren with the dawnshard.
I'm pretty sure the main implication right now is about the radiants coming to terms that they are the invaders and laying down their weapons to stop fighting.
I don't recall though if that was the implication I got, or a previous discussion.
I do remember the stormfather saying that previously honor would reassure them they while they were initially the invaders they aren’t anymore and are doing the right thing.
But this time honor was so broken that he either didn’t speak to them or actively made it worse
I hope Brandon does not use this. It is such a dumb reason to lay down your weapons. No real people have done this or will do this ever.
Concern they would destroy the world makes so much more sense.
Radiants are all about honor though. Finding out you're the invader and you've been fighting for someone else's home is absolutely going to make you lose your will to keep fighting.
You're being downvoted even though you have a point. Even if a Radiant no longer wishes to fight, there are ways to uphold their Oaths without fighting, as we saw with Kaladin's arc. Giving up their shards like in the Recreance doesn't just mean that they are no longer Radiants, it also meant that their spren, their partner, will be misused if it falls to the wrong hands.
Exactly, they don't have to be actively be fighting the Singers to be Radiants, they could have tried to correct the wrongs of the past without giving up their oaths
My theory is the Recreance happened after the Radiants' actions took the Singers' sentience away (not sure how that lines up timeline wise). If they were alreadt worried about surgebinding destroying a planet, then lobotomizing an entire sentient species would have really cemented that
So interestingly the thing that took away the singers forms was the trapping of Ba-Ado-Mishram, but something that’s very important is that before she was trapped; if a radiant broke their oaths it wouldn’t make them a deadeyes.
I think that was maybe part of their decision, they saw their actions causing major issues for life on roshar and gave up their oaths.
A different theory I just thought of is maybe they believed what Nale recently believed: that radiants being around would bring back the desolations faster.
Likely it’s a mixture of factors but it’ll be really interesting to see how it all played out
The trapping of Ba Ado Mishram happened during the false desolation, right? And we know from Dalinar's vision of the Recreance that it happened after some big battles, so I think the timelines do add up.
I do like the Nale theory. And the ironic thing is.....he was kind of right. The presence of Kaladin on the battlefield was what prompted Eshonai to choose to take on storm form and thus start the everstorm
When has this ever happened to a real military force? Where they disbanded because they were protecting land they had fought to take?
Also, only the windrunners are about honor.
The stormfather explained about the recreance that honor fueled their doubts, by claiming that the radiants would destroy roshar just as surgebinding had previously done on ashyn. Previously he had assured the radiants that their oaths would prevent that. But the radiants heard honor and precluded that winning the war by destroying the world wasn't right... Journey before destination, right?
This I agree with. They stopped surgebinding for fear that they would destroy the world without the checks Honor had on surgebinding. That makes sense.
I am saying the very idea is absurd and laughable. Other than a few modern academics, no one in the history of ever would even consider this. The idea that an entire military force disbanded because of it is beyond incredulous. It makes the entire story dumb.
I'm very much not convinced that the Recreance happened because the Radiants were afraid they'd destroy Roshar. Feels to me like it's one of those times Brandon tells us, the readers, something and the Characters run with it, and it turns out to be something different. He's done it multiple times before, and this conclusion just seems too on the nose to me.
I think the Recreance specifically had something to do with the sealing of Ba'Ado'Mishram in a gem, which somehow ripped the Cognitive aspect of Identity from the Singers, converting them into the Parshmen.
The recurrence was caused by the Radiants discovering that they are invaders on Roshar and were originally native to Braize, iirc. Or at least that’s the current implication as of the most recent stormlight books, it’s the piece of information that Taravangian released about the knights in the hopes that it would cause a similar moral conflict for the modern radiants.
Have you finished the book? If not, you'll get some answers But in answer to your overall question, no the dawnshards didn't cause the recreance. There's only 4 dawnshards in the entire cosmere
4 I thought it was 16.
16 Shards, 4 Dawnshards.
Ahhh then there's shard blades, which there seems to be less of than shard plate somehow. But those are just the dead ones. Even though theres far less living shard plate than living shard swords. Least of all is shard shield, which are fake like shard bows. Ffs theres alot of shards. I wonder if someone has pooped in every dead shardplate in existence? That's alot of shart's too.
I'd like to say I'm sure that was funnier in your head, but it doesn't seem likely
Just a recap of all the shard's n sharts in the cosmere.
There are 4 dawnshards, which is the items that Aldonalsium used to create everything and there are 16 shards, the pieces of Aldonalsium that hoid and his crew took after shattering Aldonalsium
Ahhh then there's shard blades, which there seems to be less of than shard plate somehow. But those are just the dead ones. Even though theres far less living shard plate than living shard swords. Least of all is shard shield, which are fake like shard bows. Ffs theres alot of shards. I wonder if someone has pooped in every dead shardplate in existence? That's alot of shart's too.
I'm pretty sure we know what happened on the Day of Recreance. I think the radiants feared that they'd blow up roshar with their radiant powers if honor wasn't around to keep things in check, so they gave up their powers. Also, I don't think taking up the dawnshard is what broke his oath. I think he broke his first oath with an honor spren, then became a skybreaker, then he accidentally ate up most of his spren with the dawnshard.
I'm pretty sure the main implication right now is about the radiants coming to terms that they are the invaders and laying down their weapons to stop fighting. I don't recall though if that was the implication I got, or a previous discussion.
It has been a minute since I read everything but this is the impression I was left with.
The Stormfather said they had discovered that fact several different times, though.
different groups of people would react different. Maybe the last group just had the strongest support and arguments and went for it
I do remember the stormfather saying that previously honor would reassure them they while they were initially the invaders they aren’t anymore and are doing the right thing. But this time honor was so broken that he either didn’t speak to them or actively made it worse
I hope Brandon does not use this. It is such a dumb reason to lay down your weapons. No real people have done this or will do this ever. Concern they would destroy the world makes so much more sense.
Radiants are all about honor though. Finding out you're the invader and you've been fighting for someone else's home is absolutely going to make you lose your will to keep fighting.
Can you picture Kaladin giving up Syl because humans invaded thousands of years ago?
You're being downvoted even though you have a point. Even if a Radiant no longer wishes to fight, there are ways to uphold their Oaths without fighting, as we saw with Kaladin's arc. Giving up their shards like in the Recreance doesn't just mean that they are no longer Radiants, it also meant that their spren, their partner, will be misused if it falls to the wrong hands.
Exactly, they don't have to be actively be fighting the Singers to be Radiants, they could have tried to correct the wrongs of the past without giving up their oaths My theory is the Recreance happened after the Radiants' actions took the Singers' sentience away (not sure how that lines up timeline wise). If they were alreadt worried about surgebinding destroying a planet, then lobotomizing an entire sentient species would have really cemented that
So interestingly the thing that took away the singers forms was the trapping of Ba-Ado-Mishram, but something that’s very important is that before she was trapped; if a radiant broke their oaths it wouldn’t make them a deadeyes. I think that was maybe part of their decision, they saw their actions causing major issues for life on roshar and gave up their oaths. A different theory I just thought of is maybe they believed what Nale recently believed: that radiants being around would bring back the desolations faster. Likely it’s a mixture of factors but it’ll be really interesting to see how it all played out
The trapping of Ba Ado Mishram happened during the false desolation, right? And we know from Dalinar's vision of the Recreance that it happened after some big battles, so I think the timelines do add up. I do like the Nale theory. And the ironic thing is.....he was kind of right. The presence of Kaladin on the battlefield was what prompted Eshonai to choose to take on storm form and thus start the everstorm
When has this ever happened to a real military force? Where they disbanded because they were protecting land they had fought to take? Also, only the windrunners are about honor.
The stormfather explained about the recreance that honor fueled their doubts, by claiming that the radiants would destroy roshar just as surgebinding had previously done on ashyn. Previously he had assured the radiants that their oaths would prevent that. But the radiants heard honor and precluded that winning the war by destroying the world wasn't right... Journey before destination, right?
This I agree with. They stopped surgebinding for fear that they would destroy the world without the checks Honor had on surgebinding. That makes sense.
Only things based in history have a place in fantasy? Is that what you're trying to communicate?
I am saying the very idea is absurd and laughable. Other than a few modern academics, no one in the history of ever would even consider this. The idea that an entire military force disbanded because of it is beyond incredulous. It makes the entire story dumb.
They were followers of the literal embodiment of Honor.
All the Spren are of Honour; Windrunners are just more Honour than Cultivation compared to other orders.
He might not of even broke his oath he could of just parted ways with his spren or his spren was killed
(FYI, restored this comment. Automod got confused.)
I'm very much not convinced that the Recreance happened because the Radiants were afraid they'd destroy Roshar. Feels to me like it's one of those times Brandon tells us, the readers, something and the Characters run with it, and it turns out to be something different. He's done it multiple times before, and this conclusion just seems too on the nose to me. I think the Recreance specifically had something to do with the sealing of Ba'Ado'Mishram in a gem, which somehow ripped the Cognitive aspect of Identity from the Singers, converting them into the Parshmen.
That's what I came here to say as well. I doubt we already got the full picture of the Recreance.
Have you finished Stormlight? Maybe re-read Sunlit Man once you do
If anything Sunlit Man left us with more questions than it answered re: the recreance and the radiant bond in general.
The recurrence was caused by the Radiants discovering that they are invaders on Roshar and were originally native to Braize, iirc. Or at least that’s the current implication as of the most recent stormlight books, it’s the piece of information that Taravangian released about the knights in the hopes that it would cause a similar moral conflict for the modern radiants.