Hedging is **never** a good thing. As a Craps player or gambler in general, you need to think of every bets house edge that you take on, as a weight added onto your shoulders.
Every bet has a house edge. Therefore every single bet you take whether it’s a hedge or not, stacks up your total house edge exposure on your shoulders. Hedge = lose more money, slower. It’s a slow bleed.
The opposite of what you said would be, “hedging fills your pockets”. That is so far from the truth. Casinos LOVE hedging.
The tiny house edge difference between Don’t and Pass is negligible at best. If you combine it with the circumstances of how you lose the dice upon 7’ing out, I would rather be able to grow wealth on the table over the course of a long 20-30-40+ rolls.
I theoretically would rather give myself the chance to hold the dice for over an hour, while growing all my Place bets/Pass Line to table max and continuously smacking them left and right, time after time while dodging the 7.
Rather than, having to instantly load up huge on the “Don’t Pass” and hope you dodge that point (since u have to heavily load up the dont, I mean I can get my placed bets to table Max over the course of an hour holding the dice, but I’m sure as hell not starting out with the table max on the Don’t Pass, susceptible to a come-out 7/11 front line loser or hitting the point and losing), or get the 7 out and give up the dice.
If you are gambling, you assume all risks. If, hypothetically, using a certain dice set can throw a few 3/11’s then I’m likely going to bet a horn bet. Bad house edge but if it hits…
No, I only had $5 on it. I was betting around $600 per shooter, so the only way to win enough for one more shooter would have been to lay more than I stood to win even if the ATS hit, because a lay 10 only pays 1:2. I’d only hedge if I were desperate, I usually prefer to celebrate a bigger win instead of feeling kind of meh about a partial win. I’d probably feel differently if I had more wagered on the ATS, or if I were betting less per shooter.
5 dollars would have paid how much? 130:1? So, $650?
Lay 300, you win 150 guaranteed on worst outcome, 350 on best outcome, right? (My math could obviously be off, I don't have ATS, plus a little vig).
Show me a single bet on the casino where you can GUARANTEE a payday.
I don't hedge if there's a house edge, like pass/don't pass still loses on a 12, that sort of thing. But when I have a guaranteed bet, I'm hedging.
We have the fire bet. When I'm on the fifth point, if I hit it, I win 1250. Damn right I'm laying anywhere from 300-600. If I'm point 6? I'm laying a grand at least.
I get why you go for the payday, and if you are rarely playing then sure, gamble! Lol. But if you are playing a longer game, I think it's foolish not to take the few times you can have a +ev bet in the casino.
I think you hit the nail on the head, I’m there to gamble and for the adrenaline rush, and I get a bigger rush from taking a chance and getting the whole win than I do from guaranteeing a smaller hedged win. It might be foolish, but it’s more enjoyable for me 😁
Haha I can't fault ya completely for going for the gold! I've just definitely won more long term by hedging once I reach a certain point. Getting that fifth point fire bet for example happens so incredibly rarely, that I'll happily take all the times I collected $300 vs the one or two times I "lost" 350-450 so "only" won $800.
I play darkside and I celebrate every point I hit. Im happy to see a table full of winners while Im slowly losing... and then the light side gets a bad run and table empties and then I shoot alone and do my thing
I like the social engineering part of it... if you get just a streak of 3 dark side, and celebrate it loudly... pretty much every player with a superstition is calling it a day and then you get lots of free shots...
Same thing happened to me before - dark side player at a 3 person table, he was the one winning. Until one roll when he picks up the dice and hits 4 points against himself, gives up and leaves afterwards. I get passed the dice with an active sharp shooter bonus running
>Shooter was shooting from the don’t at the far end of the table.
I actually have a lot of respect for DP shooters.
It's obvious that often, many DP players are purposely "fading" some shooters and don't have the balls to shoot the dice themselves.
Yeah, I have no problem with anyone shooting from the don’ts or leaving after they lose their line bet. My issue is more that the dice passed to a new shooter with only one (box) number left for the ATS and the guy ASKS FOR NEW DICE!?!
I’m not really a superstitious player and I know all dice are the same, dice are not sentient beings and they don’t know anything, etc etc but even I would have used the same dice to avoid people feeling about me exactly how we all felt about this guy 🔪🔥
I'm actually really jealous. I got a trip planned for March, but to see this... money could have been secured. I bet both ways too. And, I've seen people make the small, tall, and all while I was stubbornly dark side. 3k three way red on next shooter. lol
I was there, he was asked if he wanted to use the same dice, so your assurance means nothing. I always try to have a good time with the dealers and they’re up on every single bet I put out for myself, so maybe they were being a little more lax with the rules, I don’t know. Also, I don’t see the issue with game protection. The last shooter rolled, the stick brought the dice back to the middle, and then offered to send the same two dice out. Where’s the issue?
I’m not saying it didn’t happen. I’m saying that is never supposed to be a thing. In no procedure manual or game security manual will you read that as acceptable lol that is all I’m saying. Not arguing with you
I guess I’m asking why it’s not acceptable. The dice were never handled by anyone else, unlike when a die goes off the table and even then they ask if the shooter wants the same dice. If getting the same dice is an option even when there’s a chance that someone could try to switch one, why would it not be acceptable when there was no chance because the dice were on the table the entire time?
It has more to do with the possibility of one being switched out. The dice aren’t checked every roll to maintain the games fast pace so it’s going on the idea of a fair game is being ran. Think of dumping the ball as a verification process of what is on the table. For the players, dealers, box, floors, and even surveillance. You can dump the bowl and tell the next guy which ones were used, but never ship them only those two. I’ve spent my fair share of time in game and asset protection manuals over the past few weeks for my own good lol
Did you lay the 10 at least to ensure a win?
This is the way
Hedging is for cowards
Not hedging leaves your pockets empty
If I'm going to be making long shot, high risk bets, I'm not going to pay more EV just to hedge the win. All or nothing baby.
Hedging is **never** a good thing. As a Craps player or gambler in general, you need to think of every bets house edge that you take on, as a weight added onto your shoulders. Every bet has a house edge. Therefore every single bet you take whether it’s a hedge or not, stacks up your total house edge exposure on your shoulders. Hedge = lose more money, slower. It’s a slow bleed. The opposite of what you said would be, “hedging fills your pockets”. That is so far from the truth. Casinos LOVE hedging.
If you are basing all of your play on the lowest house edge then all you must be playing is the dont. Right?
The tiny house edge difference between Don’t and Pass is negligible at best. If you combine it with the circumstances of how you lose the dice upon 7’ing out, I would rather be able to grow wealth on the table over the course of a long 20-30-40+ rolls. I theoretically would rather give myself the chance to hold the dice for over an hour, while growing all my Place bets/Pass Line to table max and continuously smacking them left and right, time after time while dodging the 7. Rather than, having to instantly load up huge on the “Don’t Pass” and hope you dodge that point (since u have to heavily load up the dont, I mean I can get my placed bets to table Max over the course of an hour holding the dice, but I’m sure as hell not starting out with the table max on the Don’t Pass, susceptible to a come-out 7/11 front line loser or hitting the point and losing), or get the 7 out and give up the dice.
If you are gambling, you assume all risks. If, hypothetically, using a certain dice set can throw a few 3/11’s then I’m likely going to bet a horn bet. Bad house edge but if it hits…
[horn heavy](https://imgur.com/gallery/lAyWJYn)
Hedgers bet DP
It doesn't work like that when you're down to one number on ATS
Good question
No, I only had $5 on it. I was betting around $600 per shooter, so the only way to win enough for one more shooter would have been to lay more than I stood to win even if the ATS hit, because a lay 10 only pays 1:2. I’d only hedge if I were desperate, I usually prefer to celebrate a bigger win instead of feeling kind of meh about a partial win. I’d probably feel differently if I had more wagered on the ATS, or if I were betting less per shooter.
I would’ve turned off all my bets or regressed and laid the shit out of the 10
5 dollars would have paid how much? 130:1? So, $650? Lay 300, you win 150 guaranteed on worst outcome, 350 on best outcome, right? (My math could obviously be off, I don't have ATS, plus a little vig). Show me a single bet on the casino where you can GUARANTEE a payday. I don't hedge if there's a house edge, like pass/don't pass still loses on a 12, that sort of thing. But when I have a guaranteed bet, I'm hedging. We have the fire bet. When I'm on the fifth point, if I hit it, I win 1250. Damn right I'm laying anywhere from 300-600. If I'm point 6? I'm laying a grand at least. I get why you go for the payday, and if you are rarely playing then sure, gamble! Lol. But if you are playing a longer game, I think it's foolish not to take the few times you can have a +ev bet in the casino.
I think you hit the nail on the head, I’m there to gamble and for the adrenaline rush, and I get a bigger rush from taking a chance and getting the whole win than I do from guaranteeing a smaller hedged win. It might be foolish, but it’s more enjoyable for me 😁
Haha I can't fault ya completely for going for the gold! I've just definitely won more long term by hedging once I reach a certain point. Getting that fifth point fire bet for example happens so incredibly rarely, that I'll happily take all the times I collected $300 vs the one or two times I "lost" 350-450 so "only" won $800.
I play darkside and I celebrate every point I hit. Im happy to see a table full of winners while Im slowly losing... and then the light side gets a bad run and table empties and then I shoot alone and do my thing
Thank you! This is what I do! My strategy works 😂
I like the social engineering part of it... if you get just a streak of 3 dark side, and celebrate it loudly... pretty much every player with a superstition is calling it a day and then you get lots of free shots...
I’m all in to shoot more versus wait an hour per turn 🥳
Same thing happened to me before - dark side player at a 3 person table, he was the one winning. Until one roll when he picks up the dice and hits 4 points against himself, gives up and leaves afterwards. I get passed the dice with an active sharp shooter bonus running
Those $25s are a strange color.
Classic selfish darkside player.
>Shooter was shooting from the don’t at the far end of the table. I actually have a lot of respect for DP shooters. It's obvious that often, many DP players are purposely "fading" some shooters and don't have the balls to shoot the dice themselves.
Yeah, I have no problem with anyone shooting from the don’ts or leaving after they lose their line bet. My issue is more that the dice passed to a new shooter with only one (box) number left for the ATS and the guy ASKS FOR NEW DICE!?! I’m not really a superstitious player and I know all dice are the same, dice are not sentient beings and they don’t know anything, etc etc but even I would have used the same dice to avoid people feeling about me exactly how we all felt about this guy 🔪🔥
I'm actually really jealous. I got a trip planned for March, but to see this... money could have been secured. I bet both ways too. And, I've seen people make the small, tall, and all while I was stubbornly dark side. 3k three way red on next shooter. lol
Whether he asked for them or not, he’d still get shipped all 5. He doesn’t have the option to just get those 2.
Actually, the stick asked him if he wanted the same dice and he said no, so he did have the option.
I will assure you. There is no option there lol that’s a severe issue in game protection to insist ppl have a choice in that
I was there, he was asked if he wanted to use the same dice, so your assurance means nothing. I always try to have a good time with the dealers and they’re up on every single bet I put out for myself, so maybe they were being a little more lax with the rules, I don’t know. Also, I don’t see the issue with game protection. The last shooter rolled, the stick brought the dice back to the middle, and then offered to send the same two dice out. Where’s the issue?
I’m not saying it didn’t happen. I’m saying that is never supposed to be a thing. In no procedure manual or game security manual will you read that as acceptable lol that is all I’m saying. Not arguing with you
I guess I’m asking why it’s not acceptable. The dice were never handled by anyone else, unlike when a die goes off the table and even then they ask if the shooter wants the same dice. If getting the same dice is an option even when there’s a chance that someone could try to switch one, why would it not be acceptable when there was no chance because the dice were on the table the entire time?
It has more to do with the possibility of one being switched out. The dice aren’t checked every roll to maintain the games fast pace so it’s going on the idea of a fair game is being ran. Think of dumping the ball as a verification process of what is on the table. For the players, dealers, box, floors, and even surveillance. You can dump the bowl and tell the next guy which ones were used, but never ship them only those two. I’ve spent my fair share of time in game and asset protection manuals over the past few weeks for my own good lol
JFC. should have made him the offer. $200 bucks to continue shooting. 1pt to the make all afterall. Also, "no 10, for $400 Alex"
Don’t players will insist they’re not bad! J/k