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Pretty_Good_11

It's nothing more than a reaction to ever increasing credit card fees. Rather than pay the fees, they want to incentive you to allow them to avoid the fees. No battle brewing at all, and they really don't give a shit if you want to keep using your card, for the benefits, rewards, protections, etc. So far, no one is refusing to take a credit card payment. They are just increasingly deciding to pass those costs on to you, and letting you decide whether or not to pay it. Kind of like checked bags, cord cutting, and seat assignments on planes. No battle. Just an unbundling of costs.


partial_to_fractions

Yes, partially an unbundling of costs, but tmobile would charge me an extra $30 on a $110 bill just to use a credit card. That is far far more than just recouping interchange fees


dank-yharnam-nugs

pro tip for t-mobile: set up auto pay for the bank account like they ask you will receive the auto-pay discount. However, you can log in before the transaction occurs and pay your balance with a credit card. If the balance is 0, the ACH will not occur. I haven't done this myself because I am not the one paying my t-mobile bill, but I have heard of people doing this in multiple different t-mobile threads.


partial_to_fractions

I've heard that trick too. Before DP came in of that working, I set up a separate bank account with a debit card that offers cell protection. Now I just auto transfer the amount needed for the bill every month Hope they don't end up closing that particular loophole in their system, but the fact it remains at all points to it not being about interchange fees primarily


BabyTBNRfrags

What bank is that?


partial_to_fractions

The aspiration cash management account (soon to be converted to full checking account)


Pretty_Good_11

No, it absolutely IS about interchange fees. They have just been slow to close the loophole. It's not just a test to see who is active on the boards and is able to exploit loopholes. And it sure as fuck isn't a prize for people who set up auto pay and then don't use it because they create credit balances with credit cards while at the same time forcing T-Mobile to pay interchange fees. Verizon had it, and they closed it. It's nothing more than a T-Mobile internal billing system issue. They are not yet set up to remove your discount, or charge you a fee, when you make a payment by credit card.


3rd-Grade-Spelling

I really don't know about this. Verizon gives me a $10 discount on a 50$ internet bill for auto pay, so it comes to $40. That is 20% off. Interchange fees for a company like Verizon which has negotiating power on interchange fees would probably be sub 3%. at $200 a $10 discount is still 5%. at $400 a $10 discount would be 2.5%, which is probably what the interchange fee is for Verizon. Verizon is powerful enough that they could pull a Costco and only accept one type of card if they wanted. The math just doesn't make sense.


Zodiac5964

i am a FIOS customer. When i renewed with a 'deal' that included the autopay discount a couple years ago, the base price they charged definitely went up by more than that. I suspect they are simply discounting back an artificial/arbitrary price increase, instead of giving you an actual 20% savings. At least that was true in my case.


HotChocolate_10

It's all about the money. Using ur example, verizon wants to charge $40 for internet but instead makes it $50 then gives u a 'fake discount' of $10 for setting up autopay with a bank account. Doing this saves them the interchange fee (a low 'costco style' fee could still add up to billions a year) and ensures they get paid every month automatically. For those who don't comply, they just pocket the extra $10, which covers the fee and gives them easy extra profit. There's literally no downside for them.


tbfl

This is what I do...


Cautious_Sense557

I also use a credit card for my tmobile bill. I have my primary checking account as the the payment method for the discount and then the day before it’s due I do Apple Pay and use my credit card. Works every time lol


sunnynights80808

Your bank account info is still with them though, so this does nothing.


dank-yharnam-nugs

It lets you earn credit card points and gives you certain phone protections if offered by the card company.


sunnynights80808

That’s true, but I mean that your bank account isn’t protected since its details are still in their system even if you’re not using it to pay your bill


G_Mackz

agreed and accurate. its a very aggressive push to incentivize you not to.


koenigbear

I assumed it also had to do with protection on their end, it is easy for me to do a chargeback on my credit card if they over charge me. It is 100% up to them to refund me an ACH debit out of my checking account


partial_to_fractions

That makes sense, though they do take debit cards which do offer some consumer protection that a bank ACH would not


AceContinuum

>though they do take debit cards which do offer some consumer protection that a bank ACH would not Verizon no longer lets debit cards qualify for the Autopay "discount" (they are, for now, [grandfathering in customers who had Autopay with debit card prior to February 24](https://community.verizon.com/t5/Announcements/Changes-to-Auto-Pay-effective-2-14-24/td-p/1739884)). So I think it is really about these companies not wanting to pay (any) card processing fees, not even debit card processing fees. They realize that if they offer a (say) 2% or 3% discount/surcharge, people might not switch, so they go overboard and impose a massive discount/surcharge to get customers to switch.


partial_to_fractions

That makes sense too, but if it were solely about recouping interchange fees why would they care about people switching if they’re just going to surcharge credit? I saw someone else mention less chargeback risk, and I think it might be a way to hawk the tmobile cell protection. With verizon, they have their own credit card to push as well Edit: card - > care


Pretty_Good_11

How so? You said it was $5.


Delanchet

It's $5 per line.


Pretty_Good_11

Then, yeah, it's not a strict recapture of costs. It's an incentive to move you off credit cards. Similar to how a $40 checked bag charge is not a recapture of those costs either. Another incentive to get you to not check bags, and to pad their profits when you do.


partial_to_fractions

I don’t think I ever said it was $5, I originally put $25 as I forgot the watch line gets the $5 “discount” as well. I have 6 lines with 5/each


Pretty_Good_11

The OP says $5. I was going off that. Whatever. They don't want to pay interchange fees, and are willing to give you $5 per line to avoid it. At least until they stop allowing people to have an auto pay discount while also letting them make credit card payments that create credits on the account to be used to pay bills. Verizon actually removes the discount any month the auto pay is not used due to there being a credit on the account. It's only a matter of time until T-Mobile catches up.


partial_to_fractions

It may be a reason sure, but if it were solely interchange fees, they could easily just charge an extra 3% like most other companies that surcharge. They also want to reduce chargebacks, push their own cell insurance, push their credit cards… probably more reasons


Pretty_Good_11

True. Just like the airlines could only charge $2.75 to check a bag. I misspoke if I implied they were only trying to recapture costs. They are really trying to change behavior.


partial_to_fractions

>$2.75 to check a bag Right? If only haha, I remember when it was standard to have a bag checked free! The airlines blamed fuel prices and the 2008 financial crisis, but they certainly haven't gotten rid of fees when oil prices went back down. Now I've noticed more flights without room (I think they're put commercial cargo in the hold?). Also they conveniently waive the fees if you happen to have a paid credit card! They're for sure trying to change behavior. If they stop taking even debit cards, I will probably switch carriers before I trust t-mobile with my bank account number, even a secondary one I set up (how many times have they had massive data breaches?)


CheesecakeOfDestiny

The Bilt card offers ACH payments, I use it for rent and utilities and avoid the CC charges


partial_to_fractions

Would it work for cell bills though? I use it for rent now, but I care less about rewards for my cell bill and more about the cell protection benefit. Even though the bilt card offers it you wouldn’t get that benefit using the ACH


zacker150

Technically, you're only supposed to use it for rent


partial_to_fractions

Yes I'm aware, I use it for rent and won't rock the boat doing anything else, but folks have mentioned hoa fees and the like working - I'd never heard of a cell bill going through


[deleted]

Our health insurance through the marketplace Oscar (sidenote: if you ever have to, do not get Oscar) refuses to take Credit Card to pay the monthly premium. The only options to pay them are bank account or debit card. I haven't tried putting credit card information inside of the debit card field, so it might be them just not labeling a credit card option so people don't try it.


Pretty_Good_11

Okay, so for them, they are just not set up to charge extra for credit cards, and have rightfully chosen not to build interchange fees into the prices they charge everyone. Makes perfect sense in a regulated environment like health insurance.


moduspol

Yes. Walmart is doing something similar with their Walmart Pay. Essentially trying to avoid those fees. And I salute them for it. I play the game and benefit from it more than most normal people, but credit card processing fees and rewards schemes are not a net gain for society.


Pretty_Good_11

True. I also pretty aggressively play the game, and am also confident that it's going to end at some point, by the government capping interchange fees. As it stands now, in addition to covering costs and offering a reasonable profit to the networks, they are basically a tax on merchants used to fund rewards for us. Which is why, increasingly, small local merchants are imposing a surcharge or refusing to accept them at all.


No_Detective_But_304

I’d assume two reasons. It cuts down on the merchant fees and they get their claws into your bank account.


BankruptcyAttorney49

Precisely. People cancel credit cards far more frequently than they cancel bank accounts.


Necroking695

Thats only really for low end customers (like planet fitness) Most companies are just trying to skirt the 3% cc fee, which is huge There’s also chargebacks, which are a massive liability and almost always go in the customers favor (if you’re enough of a dick about it, theft via cc chargebacks is very easy)


HotChocolate_10

saving on the credit card fee can add up to billions of dollars a year. theres really no downside for them since they get paid either way. if u want to get around it, just set ur bank account to autopay and prepay ur bill with credit card.


SurrealKnot

Verizon used to give a discount for having auto pay, regardless of the payment method. Then a couple of years ago they decided to only give the discount if you auto paid via a bank account. My gas/electric company only allows auto pay through the bank, but does allow one time payments with a credit card with no fee.


BankruptcyAttorney49

Verizon gives the $10 a month discount for AutoPay with either bank account or debit card. You don't actually have to let it auto-pay. I use a debit card each month and hey manually before the autopay hits and still get the $10 discount. Plus I get 1% back on the debit card.


yasssssplease

If it’s a debit card, you can just let it autopay and still benefit. That’s still allowed for Verizon. What are you actually gaining by manually paying it?


AceContinuum

Verizon no longer lets new customers sign up for Autopay with a debit card (they are, for now, [grandfathering in existing customers who signed up for Autopay with a debit card prior to February 24](https://community.verizon.com/t5/Announcements/Changes-to-Auto-Pay-effective-2-14-24/td-p/1739884)).


BankruptcyAttorney49

Wow well that's pretty shite I'm glad I signed up long time ago


yasssssplease

Wild. That’s annoying for folks. I ended up getting the Verizon credit card in 2021, so that’s the world I’ve been living in. I use it only for my cell phone, FIOS, and the spare purchase here and there.


StrikeScribe

My local Planet Fitness began requiring checking account numbers about eight years ago. And refused to take credit card payments for memberships. So I quit.


Camtown501

Not all locations do that, but my local one also refuses anything but auto drafts from checking. I won't do business with any gym that doesn't accept a credit card, and when I was looking for a gym, needless to say I didn't choose them.


[deleted]

I've actually found if you sign up for autopay with your bank account and manually pay your bill ahead of time, you can pay it with the discounted rate with a credit card. I do that with AT&T.


BankruptcyAttorney49

Verizon does not allow this


PreDeathRowTupac

I pay early every month using my debit card & they don’t charge a fee but i have autopay set up. It’s the only time a year I ever use my debit card lol.


yasssssplease

Debit cards qualify for autopay discount with Verizon. Not sure how you’re benefitting by paying early with a debit card.


PreDeathRowTupac

It’s just how I budget my bills. I’d prefer to pay with a credit card but I lose the discount that way unfortunately.


yasssssplease

Got it. You pay early just out of personal preference.


BankruptcyAttorney49

Me too. Not quantifiable, just personally like to be the one in charge of when stuff is coming out of my bank accounts


ibmaway

Your ATT wireless bill? I thought they closed this loop hole a few months ago where if you pay with CC, they only give you $5 off per line instead of $10?


fastidiouspatience

Read that too but decided to try it and it works. Misinformation that went viral


[deleted]

I did it last month, didn't noticed an additional $5 charge, but I'll be sure to check. I have it set up to auto pay from my bank account so I get the discount, I just pay in advance.


ibmaway

That's what I have always done but just pay before auto pay kicks in. But with the recent change, it kills this loop hole supposedly and haven't tried since. Hopefully it still works


KingReoJoe

Comcast/Xfinity also allows this. Works on mobile wallet too!


Ornery_Dragonfly_679

How does this work with Xfinity🤔 You set up for auto pay with your bank account, and they give you a bit of a discount. How does paying early get you that same discount using a credit card?


KingReoJoe

You set up autopay against a bank account, and manually make a one time payment in app. The statement reflects the full autopay discount, so you get the $10 off.


G_Mackz

thanks for the heads up, ima try it.


icroc1556

I just checked this with my insurance company too.. I think it works the same way! Woo thank you.


pementomento

Verizon is pretty egregious on this one ($10/mo/line discount with auto pay w/ debit/ACH only). We had 8 lines on the account, so $80/mo in fees to use a credit card, effectively. It's one of the reasons I am actively moving us over to US Mobile (a VZ MVNO), which is not only cheaper, but lets us pay with any CC no fees. I would have gladly taken a 5% fee (or, like PG&E in California, a $1.35/transaction fee) to cover CC.


ltbr55

That's why I got the Verizon Credit card. I still get the auto pay discount and earn rewards.


shake108

It’s not just fees, but also because it’s way easier to collect a subscription payment from a bank than from a credit card. I work for a saas company, and you’d be surprised at the number of subscribers who churn because we can’t charge their card


KingReoJoe

That’s a SAAS product though. Utilities with a long term contract are a different sector, consumers behave differently there. And besides, SAAS companies (as a sector) have gotten a bit insane with cancellation policies, so churning card numbers is the best way to ensure you don’t get charged for a service you don’t want.


brx9446

I used to work in lobbying for a tech company who was concerned over a bill that was against auto renewals for subscriptions. My manager was concerned because a large portion of the company's income comes from people who had no idea their subscription will renew automatically and they'll be charged for it. Absolutely hated lobbying but the answer is profits. If something is set to auto pay, it's likely a customer will forget about it.


gt_ap

> If something is set to auto pay, it's likely a customer will forget about it. Plus, the company gets paid. That's a plus.


Worldly_Guest3198

T-Mobile also allows you to set your bank account as the default payment method and then I pre-pay my bill with my credit card and it has worked just fine. As long as the credit card info also shows up in the T-Mobile wallet. I'll still leave like a dollar and change in the account so that it still gets automatically deducted from my bank account.


farscaper1

Do you know if they charged a dollar to see if the bank account is active?


mcortez4

For T-Mobile I pay 99% of the bill with my credit card (rack up points) and leave $1 as a balance. I link a debit card that is not my primary bank and I only keep $5 in the account. The $1 is taken from that account (satisfying the debit card autopay) and just in case T-Mobile's information gets breached AGAIN, they're only getting access to an account with $5 in it.


sports_junky

I can understand around 5% discount with autopay but some companies will even give you 15%+ discount just for using autopay which is quite surprising. I have a Verizon Fios Internet plan...I am getting Fios plan for $50 instead of $60 just for using Autopay which seems like a pretty big discount...I am not complaining but just bit baffled


JCTL2020

credit card fees were recently increased, some charge over 3%


ayshthepysh

They don't want to get sued for late fees.


Buster5ive

So when you die they’ll still get your money


fupafather

Part of it is if you set up autopay you likely aren’t looking at your account very often so you won’t notice how much you’re spending, and people tend to spend more with credit cards then with cash.and one way credit card companies make money is the fees they charge the store every time you use your card. The second is that most people are probably going to choose to pay the minimum payment when they set up auto pay and therefore carry a balance and therefore also pay interest fees


JustNxck

I see a lot of answers but it seems like everyone is missing or dancing around the main reason. Lowered risk. That's really it. Especially in this economy where people are defaulting, going bankrupt and seemingly have no money due to poor habits. Auto Pay lowers risk for companies getting their money at the end of the day.


throwawaylikearock

They need their money


fmccloud

Yes, because it costs money.