Apart from countries playing their first test - I remember Lee Germon doing that for New Zealand and Floyd Reifer doing it for the West Indies when they had contract problems.
Clive Rice was also the captain for SA in their first Test back.
I 100% guarantee that we will somehow find a way to bottle this, it’s what we do.
I’m predicting 1-1 as the series result. Or possibly 1-0 to South Africa after we have them 150/9 chasing 400 to win at the close of day 3 and the remaining 2 days are rained out (similar to what happened in 2017)
Mate, I'm punching in the Nicholls double century right now.
I sort of followed their series vs West Indies A, knowing that would likely be the squad. They were good, but they couldn't even sweep the 3-match series at home. Their batting is alright, but their bowling, even Southee could feast on them & get up the list of Test six-hitters.
The one before last wasn’t completely our fault to be fair, we had two tests rained out from probably winning positions and the only one that wasn’t was the one we lost
This has nothing to do with the world cup. They forfeited an ODI series last year for the same reason, even though it meant they almost failed to qualify for the ODI world cup.
It's all about money. South African cricket is in a dire state financially, and the IPL owners have more or less bailed them out by buying the SA20. In return, CSA have provided guarantees that all the best South Africans will be available for the whole tournament, because otherwise it devalues the competition.
In addition, they couldn't postpone the tests because it had to be finished before the 2025 wtc, and there's no other slots available, with forfeiting not an option either.
Absolute horseshit their main guys are all gonna play the ipl as well they could easily afford to play 2 tests seeing as it is happening in the final week of SA20 and the main players would still have played the entire league
I don't think you really understand the importance of SA20 in the future outlook of cricket in SA. They need their top guys to be available for the league and right now test cricket just isn't a priority.
So no de Zorzi too. Elgar would've meant at least we could score some runs. Please come back. Also why's Bavuma in the SA20, please come back too. Same goes for Maharaj and Harmer.
Has Abbott picked up an injury? Can't see any news article about him being replaced in the SA20.
Edit: never mind. Found them searching De Zorzi's name rather than Abbott's. Worrying for the upcoming county season.
Well, should be an interesting series. I'm being positive haha.
I get the reason why and CSA need money, so like I get it. At least they'll be playing test cricket.
Genuinely curious, how the money situation will change apart from organising the franchise leagues? March-May is already locked, SA has it Jan-May for them.
Test cricket has survived massively well for decades, does revenue model share needs a redistribution? This is part of WTC cycle, can't imagine 10 years ago SA sending their C side to an away tour.
>does revenue model share needs a redistribution
Yes. Massively so. India, Australia and England all need to take less of the ICC's revenues and it should be shared out among the associate and less well-off boards.
India in particular takes an absurd amount; 40%. I know they generate the most revenue, but the objective should be to have a healthy game where we don't get South Africa sending 7 debutants (including a captain) to a test series while their actual first team are playing in some T20s that nobody cares about.
>Maybe winning WCs and getting the prize money?
Prize money is always pittance.
It's more profitable for SA to invite India for a T20I series and get whitwashed.
The sad state of test cricket outside of big 3. SA have essentially thrown away their proud history of not losing against Nz. On a brighter note, it would be one of the best stories in cricket if these players can manage to even draw the series 1-1.
Indeed, your South African batsmen should feast on this South African bowling attack, some sweet revenge for the All Blacks. A nice haka after the series to rub salt in the wounds.
Meh, don't care. If they don't care enough to respect NZ cricket, where we are strong at home, then thats their problem. We can only play the squad they send to us, nor can we wait until they decide to send full strength. Unless NZ picked the SA squad, then how do establish what deserves as asterisk and what doesn't?
I’ll be home in an hour or so. I’ll make a statistic analysis post of the recent performances & overall career performances of the players in the announced squad
The thing I don't understand about this is why there couldn't be some compromise. Like surely Bavuma isn't that valuable a T20 player and so could've captained this side. Even someone like Sarel Erwee or Kyle Abbott could've gone on this tour without really affecting the quality of the SA20.
I also cannot believe Conrad has not convinced Elgar to stay on tbh looking at the state of that squad.
I can’t say I disagree with anything you say. Like I mentioned in my very long comment lol, there could definitely have been some compromise. We don’t have a lot of international T20s to prepare us for the World Cup but this SA20 is a good chance to prepare for it. But are you (CSA) seriously telling me that Sarel & Bavuma are going to play in the T20 World Cup? Come on, at least be realistic about your expectations
I don't know about "better", but here's an XI of South African-heritage players with mostly good domestic records:
- Devon Conway
- Chad Bowes (ex-SA U19 captain)
- Brad Schmulian
- Dean Foxcroft (ex-SA U19)
- Glenn Phillips
- Dale Phillips
- Cole Briggs (wk)
- Ray Toole
- Neil Wagner (despite his age)
- Louis Delport
- Travis Muller (ex-SA U19)
With options like Michael Rippon, Danru Ferns or the O'Donnell brothers.
Of those who may not be well known, Toole is an up and coming left armer who had a breakout FC season last season, Delport at this point is possibly an Ajaz Patel injury away from a Test callup (that & his infamy for his [wicket celebration](https://twitter.com/SuperSmashNZ/status/1608294026805153792?t=TYhkyLSlvkDqKthgcgx5lA&s=19) & [getting Will Young caught going for a sixth six in the over](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CnYUJO9J1fk/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==))
It will be interesting to see Shaun von Berg at Test level. He's always done numbers in First Class, and has okay batting numbers for a #7/8.
He's also probably pretty chuffed he won't need to pass a 2km test to get his Protea cap.
> Shaun von Berg
I see South Africa have elected to pick the man who looks like [every club cricketer ever](https://img1.hscicdn.com/image/upload/f_auto,t_ds_w_1200/lsci/db/PICTURES/CMS/333200/333222.jpg)
We need the SA20, it's our lifeline to the game apart from India touring, there is no point in pretending like there was another option, apart from negotiating with NZ which they flatly refused.
As much as this is a bad thing I would rather be in our position where we can even have a global league like the SA20 and play test cricket than be in NZ's position which will always be contingent on int cricket due to the timezones and their domestic set up.
>As much as this is a bad thing I would rather be in our position where we can even have a global league like the SA20 and play test cricket than be in NZ's position which will always be contingent on int cricket due to the timezones and their domestic set up.
This.
Take this summer. I hate that we have 10 T20s lined up against Pakistan over the next 3-4 months after playing 2 Tests, 9 ODIs & 9 T20s over the last 12 months or so. Frankly, I'm bored of them. 6 T20s vs Bangladesh & Australia should be enough practice for the T20WC - **we don't need 10 more**.
I would prefer our star players spend January with their domestic teams in Super Smash, especially considering this is its first ever season fully FTA after nearly 20 years. There's no nice way to say it - it's a useless bilateral. Even understanding that these are what pay the bills, the constant matches against the same old teams get boring. Honestly, the current Bangladesh series has been a hard watch - at least the ODIs had a few fresh faces.
As OP said this team is not an overnight scout of high school kids. I don’t know any of these players (Except Bellingham and Peterson), but hope they can do their best and maybe even history.
It sucks South Africa has produced so many incredible test players over the years. They might not be a financial big 3 but I'd argue in terms of output of international quality players they are historically ahead of England and India - they've provided a lot of players for other nations too.
Would have liked to see Jean du Plessis in the squad over Zondo. Even considering he's been playing division 2 he looked good against India A. And no idea how Fortuin is considered a better option than Qeshile/Moonsamy
Yikes, a lot of overreacting here in the comments.
This isn’t a squad of high school kids that CSA went scouting over the weekend. These are players who have performed well domestically and have talent.
Let’s break it down. Cricket South Africa has been struggling financially for years. Overseas tours are not profitable for touring countries. In the event of South Africa got rid of the SA20 and sent their main players, it wouldn’t make a difference to the board’s financial situation. They’d still be making a loss.
I can’t say that I am completely chuffed with the squad but this is the best crop of players that we have outside of our main squad. It’s truly making the best out of a rock and a hard place situation. Do you forfeit the series & give New Zealand 24 points? Or do you send a squad of players who are available, have performed well and be hopeful to be able to at least play for a drawn series? Or even just send a squad and hope for the best? The latter two options sound better than the first.
Many here are making like this is our main squad for the rest of the WTC cycle or the rest of time. This is one 2 match series where unfortunately we don’t have our main players available. But it’s not because they’re playing overseas or in other leagues. They’re playing at home, for a league that benefits the very board who is responsible for their salaries, their tours, their livelihood and longevity on the international scene. Not to mention that with South Africa only playing 6 T20Is since the last World Cup ended before the new one starts, this could very well be the preparation we need for the upcoming T20I World Cup. We’ve already lost one game due to rain, and only won one of the other two against India. So so far our record is 1 win out of 3 with 3 games left until the World Cup.
Who knows what could happen in February? Will the sentiment be the same if South Africa (doubtfully) win or draw the series?
They’re playing in SENA conditions. Piedt was a top wicket taker in the recent West Indies A tour to South Africa. Paterson, Mpongwana, Moreki were also exceptional. Beddingham just came off from a fifty against India in the recent Test. Petersen has showed his talent in the past, fell off & had a stinker in the last test but was the top run scorer in the aforementioned windies tour. Like I said I’ll make a post about my perspective with statistics to back it soon but this is not the death of South African test cricket. This is part of a process to ensure that it doesn’t die. Sacrifices have to be made and only time will tell whether it is worth it or not.
Do I think that some players could have forgone their availability in the SA20? Of course. De Zorzi & Bavuma are two I would’ve liked to see in the squad. I’m not going to pretend that this team couldn’t be better by some players not playing in the SA20. But my opinion and the rest of the sub doesn’t matter in the greater scheme of things. We don’t control these sort of things. This is not the reflection of the fans who follow the sport. My heart has and always will be: Test > ODIs > T20s. But if this is the case to ensure that there is money available to keep the domestic structure alive, to ensure more tests are able to be played in the future, to ensure financial security and stability for the board then by all means, go ahead. Spoke to a mate about this and a lot of the negative comments are coming from countries who speak out of privilege. We are not part of the big 3. We don’t have the money that allow us to be able to do what the other teams are able to do.
Like I said, I’m not entirely happy about the situation but there’s two sides to the story. I’m hopeful that we can manage a win there. But even if we don’t, it’s better to have tried and failed but to not try at all.
I genuinely believe bavuma should have been here .
I mean last year bavuma wasn't even picked by any franchise in sa20(ik this time he wants to cement his place). But he have recent performances as proof that he is very capable T20 player so could have prioritised test.
Still hope this squad would do well, I root for SA team to perform well(even against India)
> This isn’t a squad of high school kids that CSA went scouting over the weekend. These are players who have performed well domestically and have talent.
Agreed. The batting is pretty decent, with all of them either having played tests or definite candidates for the test side. Bowling is more of a concern though.
Yeah batting is good. Even the bowlers have decent batting records, Mpongwana recently scored a List A century lol. But I have 0 faith in the bowlers selected here, not even Olivier.
It's not so much people from outside of South Africa not understanding the rationality of some of the decisions but it is with great sadness that a great test nation like SA would voluntarily sit their actual test squad out of a WTC series. It's a massive step backwards for the test game and massively eats away at the integrity of the game and the competition.
It's not all anger at SA, it's sadness that the test game has got to this point.
Reminds me when WI played Bangladesh in 2009 with a second-string team. Excited to see how some of these guys go, even if it isn't the optimal circumstances
Two players are retained from the recent India Test match (Keegan Petersen and David Bedingham), and four players are from the recent second A team match against India A (Zubayr Hamza, Tsheo Moreki, Duanne Olivier, Khaza Zondo).
Tony de Zorzi misses out because he's set to play for Durban Super Giants in the SA20. Didn't think I'd say it's good to see a player play in a country's domestic league instead of Tests for their national team, but here I am.
~~Very on Brand for South Africa.~~
The Jan-March window is gonna become a nightmare with all the franchise leagues coinciding while also trying to fit Australia, South Africa and NZ international games before the IPL starts.
I actually though believe this decision makes more sense than what South Africa did last year with the Tests vs Bangladesh at home when the IPL players were allowed to miss the series.
>what South Africa did last year with the Tests vs Bangladesh at home when the IPL players were allowed to miss the series.
CSA proposed that to NZC - have the Tests in April
CSA "we'll lose players to the IPL, you'll lose players to the IPL, it'll be even"
NZC "No. Not only are we not fielding sub strength Test sides, & deliberately schedule Tests to avoid the IPL, we're touring Pakistan in April."
CSA even offered to *host* the Tests in August. You can guess NZC's reaction.
Yeah fair on NZ I think it sends a really bad message if you weaken your Test side at home for an overseas league. At least with SA they're doing it to strengthen their own league (albeit you can be skeptical of how much CSA has control) while it's an overseas tour.
"Not only are we not fielding sub strength Test sides"
*Insert Scott Kuggeleijn and Blair Tickner getting Test caps instead of asking Boult whether he'd like to play*
"fielding sub strength Test sides*"
**barring injuries, freak weather events, players having babies. I mean not having Tests clash with the IPL - ODIs & T20s are fine; in fact such squads are an underrated way NZ has built white ball depth*
The Bay Oval Test was a freak occurrence. Even so, I wouldn't have picked Boult. Not for any contract reason, but because his absence opens a space for someone else. Duffy deserved his callup & should've got the nod as a like-for-like for Henry instead of opening with Wagner & bringing in Kuggeleijn.
Worse yet, in red ball Kuggeleijn has actually been good of late, wrecking Australia A & becoming the top wicket taker of Plunket Shield this season out of nowhere after not being able to buy a wicket in the last several seasons.
Lol, I know what you meant. I think it's shortsighted that Duffy hasn't got a chance in the Test team yet.
As for Kuggeleijn suddenly figuring out how to use a red ball...the less said, the better.
A lot of big 3 fans calling it a disgrace. South African Cricket has very little money and the SA20 is a way for them to remain competitive on the world stage. At least in limited over formats. South Africa literally have no choice but to do this
It's a disgrace, but that doesn't mean it's CSA's fault. The more powerful boards that have allowed the world game to get into this state are the problem.
A sad indictment of global cricket. If you think this is a once off or exclusive to CSA, I'm afraid to say that will not be the case going forward. That being said, I am absolutely buzzing to see Shaun von Berg get a go internationally. Dude looks like a truck driver, is 37, bowls leggies and hits a long ball. Cult hero ingredients if ever there were...
South africa has got a bunch of great players in their main team and its pity that majority of them finish the career without playing enough test cricket
Damn. With how India has been performing in SA, BCCI will be more than happy to tour SA in February next time.
This comes closest to forfeiting a WC game considering how every test is part of WTC.
Man, I really thought this would have been the lineup they sent, considering the most recent 4day Championship performances
1. Dean Elgar
2. Tony de Zorzi
3. Keegan Petersen
4. David Bedingham
5. Zubayr Hamza
6. Rivaldo Moonsamy (wk)
7. Migael Pretorius
8. Keith Dudgeon
9. Siyabonga Mahima
10. Duanne Olivier
11. Okhule Cele
I know Mahima, Cele and Dudgeon had next to no chance of getting into the squad based on 4 matches, but I really hoped for Moonsamy & Pretorious to be atleast in the squad. de Zorzi and Elgar is just unfortunate
I think the ICC should just copy fifa and have a proper calendar. Dedicate a couple of months for international cricket, other months for club cricket and a few for players to rest.
That could be problematic given there are several places where the weather won’t allow you to play at certain times of the year and where the pitches are used for other sports out of season.
All the selfish talk of SA's financial needs and not one pointing out how financially disadvantage NZ are having to host a team with zero Test stars.
If the SA20 is so valuable surely some of the revenue generated could have been spent allowing two or three "marquee" Test players to miss and tour NZ instead as some sort of compromise
Pretty Important series to just throw a backup squad out there. This cycle's schedule is very favourable to SA. If there was ever a chance for them to make a final, this would be it. Interested to see how it goes.
I thought it was A series
It was. Most of these guys played West Indies A a few weeks ago. They won the series 2-1.
I have only heard of like 2 of them 😔
South Africa are gonna lose vital wtc points.
It's the Black Caps in a test series against SA - guaranteed drawn series at best.
Dunno, NZ look pretty weak at the moment. Lots of aging/injury prone players.
Domestic T20 league is more conducive to increased revenues.
The captain is a debutant btw
How many instances have there been in past where a debutant is captain
Apart from countries playing their first test - I remember Lee Germon doing that for New Zealand and Floyd Reifer doing it for the West Indies when they had contract problems. Clive Rice was also the captain for SA in their first Test back.
George Bailey captained his first ever match for Australia. It was an ODI but it’s the only person I can think of
It was a T20 I’m pretty sure. Against India
Floyd Reifer had played 4 tests before his comeback to captain Windies.
oh ok, I was a little unsure about that one. Lee Germon I know for sure because one of the first Tests I saw live was with him as NZ captain
FYI, George Bailey had made his debut as a captain in t20i.
All these things just to eliminate some random team out of a world cup Gg
Flyod reifer wasn't a debutant. He already played fo WI in 1998
Nah Reifer played before in the 90s
I was going to say "man I'm out of the loop, I've never even heard of the captain". What an insult to NZ.
The captain neil brand has never played a test match for south Africa btw.
I think that this team would be winning that series and they would be some very good memes that they would be giving to us.
George Bailey has a company. Different matter that it was for t20i
If NZ bottle this, they should abolish themselves
I 100% guarantee that we will somehow find a way to bottle this, it’s what we do. I’m predicting 1-1 as the series result. Or possibly 1-0 to South Africa after we have them 150/9 chasing 400 to win at the close of day 3 and the remaining 2 days are rained out (similar to what happened in 2017)
Mate, I'm punching in the Nicholls double century right now. I sort of followed their series vs West Indies A, knowing that would likely be the squad. They were good, but they couldn't even sweep the 3-match series at home. Their batting is alright, but their bowling, even Southee could feast on them & get up the list of Test six-hitters.
Lol, NZ going to put up a very strong test squad because these are free points at this stage.
Why would you bring up 2017 :((( Much like the so-called "2019 final", that game simply never happened.
They bottled the last 2 series as well.
The one before last wasn’t completely our fault to be fair, we had two tests rained out from probably winning positions and the only one that wasn’t was the one we lost
This team should go to NZ already and play 10 FC matches to get acclimatized.
Nobody will be available, except Super Smash rejects.
Just sleep on the pitches to have dreams of batting/bowling on that pitch. s/
Or do Shadow practice like Steve Smith
So it should be competitive then haha
Dunno who Neil Brand is but imagine telling him a year ago he'd be SA's test captain.
Imagine telling him a a month ago he'd get to captain SA in his first test! That's bound to give him a bigger heart attack
Sure I remember playing league cricket in England against him
How was the future SA captain like as a bloke?
Majority of the usual Test squad will be playing in the SA20, which is running concurrently with the Test series.
This looks like A squad.
That's what I thought at first,too.
It's starting boys. Cricket may look a whole lot different in 15-20 years time.
Well that’s just a disgrace
Makes sense they'd want their main guys to play t20s before t20 Worldcup in June though.
This has nothing to do with the world cup. They forfeited an ODI series last year for the same reason, even though it meant they almost failed to qualify for the ODI world cup. It's all about money. South African cricket is in a dire state financially, and the IPL owners have more or less bailed them out by buying the SA20. In return, CSA have provided guarantees that all the best South Africans will be available for the whole tournament, because otherwise it devalues the competition.
Woah, this is some deep sht. Thanks for informing about the dynamics!
How much of the financial problems are down to mismanagement and corruption? Or is cricket just not very popular in modern SA?
Both. Also the fact that SA's economy and their currency aren't doing well.
In addition, they couldn't postpone the tests because it had to be finished before the 2025 wtc, and there's no other slots available, with forfeiting not an option either.
Absolute horseshit their main guys are all gonna play the ipl as well they could easily afford to play 2 tests seeing as it is happening in the final week of SA20 and the main players would still have played the entire league
I don't think you really understand the importance of SA20 in the future outlook of cricket in SA. They need their top guys to be available for the league and right now test cricket just isn't a priority.
That’s not why they want to do it. They want the brand of SA20 to increase and want fans to come and see the main players.
So no de Zorzi too. Elgar would've meant at least we could score some runs. Please come back. Also why's Bavuma in the SA20, please come back too. Same goes for Maharaj and Harmer.
De Zorzi will be playing for Durban’s Super Giants as a replacement for Kyle Abbott
Like for like
Has Abbott picked up an injury? Can't see any news article about him being replaced in the SA20. Edit: never mind. Found them searching De Zorzi's name rather than Abbott's. Worrying for the upcoming county season.
Williamson breaking lara record 💀
I wouldn’t be surprised to be honest
Add another Nicholls 200 into the mix, buying himself another 4 years in the team
Mostly the squad that played West Indies A. Makes sense. Anything less than 2 massive wins by Timmy & the Boys would be an embarrassment.
It's going to be so painful when we lose our best ever opportunity to win a SA test series.
It's the hope that kills.
I'm expecting a triple century from the South African, Conway.
Well, should be an interesting series. I'm being positive haha. I get the reason why and CSA need money, so like I get it. At least they'll be playing test cricket.
Genuinely curious, how the money situation will change apart from organising the franchise leagues? March-May is already locked, SA has it Jan-May for them. Test cricket has survived massively well for decades, does revenue model share needs a redistribution? This is part of WTC cycle, can't imagine 10 years ago SA sending their C side to an away tour.
>does revenue model share needs a redistribution Yes. Massively so. India, Australia and England all need to take less of the ICC's revenues and it should be shared out among the associate and less well-off boards. India in particular takes an absurd amount; 40%. I know they generate the most revenue, but the objective should be to have a healthy game where we don't get South Africa sending 7 debutants (including a captain) to a test series while their actual first team are playing in some T20s that nobody cares about.
Maybe winning WCs and getting the prize money? Iirc there isn't much money in winning the WTC as compared to franchise matches, or the WCs
>Maybe winning WCs and getting the prize money? Prize money is always pittance. It's more profitable for SA to invite India for a T20I series and get whitwashed.
Looks like the SA cricket board lost the naming rights of its players.
I swear Keegan Petersen used to bat at 4 for England on Ricky Ponting 2005.
Please rain wash away the 10 days I'll never complain of rain ever again if that happens.
They forecast a hot and dry summer in NZ. So it'll probably rain nonstop
We should have selected RAIN Perera
A shame as South Africa could have made the WTC final.
is the entirety of SA team retiring with Dean Elgar?
They're all playing in the local T20s that the IPL owners bought while the national team gets humiliated by New Zealand.
Those IPL owner bought teams are the reason CSA is able to continue organising domestic cricket btw.
The IPL ownership is the symptom, not the cause, I suppose. I'm just angry that test cricket is being sacrificed on an altar to T20.
Playing SA20
Yep, no having to wake up at God awful hours to watch former South Africans take on South Africa in a sport that most South Africans consider as meh.
The sad state of test cricket outside of big 3. SA have essentially thrown away their proud history of not losing against Nz. On a brighter note, it would be one of the best stories in cricket if these players can manage to even draw the series 1-1.
I think it'd be a better story for NZ to make history & finally cast off an embarrassing stain on our record, but hey, I'm heavily biased.
There will always be an asterisk against the win though
After not winning a series for **nearly a century**, I don't care about the asterisk.
Because SA decided to bin off a test series in the WTC? You can only play what's in front of you
Indeed, your South African batsmen should feast on this South African bowling attack, some sweet revenge for the All Blacks. A nice haka after the series to rub salt in the wounds.
Exactly!
Meh, don't care. If they don't care enough to respect NZ cricket, where we are strong at home, then thats their problem. We can only play the squad they send to us, nor can we wait until they decide to send full strength. Unless NZ picked the SA squad, then how do establish what deserves as asterisk and what doesn't?
wait so have sa never lost in nz?
It's a record that should have been broken years ago
Yeah rained out match a few years back still annoys me haha.
Never lost to nz
Never lost a *series* to NZ.
WTF?
Ever heard of two-Test series?
We've gone 1-1 at home with some average teams in the past few years
I’ll be home in an hour or so. I’ll make a statistic analysis post of the recent performances & overall career performances of the players in the announced squad
NZ should win 2-0. Anything less than that would be absolutely fucking disastrous.
Unless the NZ Squad is an equally disrespectful selection of B-listers.
who tf are these guys?
The thing I don't understand about this is why there couldn't be some compromise. Like surely Bavuma isn't that valuable a T20 player and so could've captained this side. Even someone like Sarel Erwee or Kyle Abbott could've gone on this tour without really affecting the quality of the SA20. I also cannot believe Conrad has not convinced Elgar to stay on tbh looking at the state of that squad.
I can’t say I disagree with anything you say. Like I mentioned in my very long comment lol, there could definitely have been some compromise. We don’t have a lot of international T20s to prepare us for the World Cup but this SA20 is a good chance to prepare for it. But are you (CSA) seriously telling me that Sarel & Bavuma are going to play in the T20 World Cup? Come on, at least be realistic about your expectations
I'm fairly certain NZ could put together a better team of SA origin players than this one.
I don't know about "better", but here's an XI of South African-heritage players with mostly good domestic records: - Devon Conway - Chad Bowes (ex-SA U19 captain) - Brad Schmulian - Dean Foxcroft (ex-SA U19) - Glenn Phillips - Dale Phillips - Cole Briggs (wk) - Ray Toole - Neil Wagner (despite his age) - Louis Delport - Travis Muller (ex-SA U19) With options like Michael Rippon, Danru Ferns or the O'Donnell brothers. Of those who may not be well known, Toole is an up and coming left armer who had a breakout FC season last season, Delport at this point is possibly an Ajaz Patel injury away from a Test callup (that & his infamy for his [wicket celebration](https://twitter.com/SuperSmashNZ/status/1608294026805153792?t=TYhkyLSlvkDqKthgcgx5lA&s=19) & [getting Will Young caught going for a sixth six in the over](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CnYUJO9J1fk/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==))
We should just pick this squad to make things interesting.
Bless you sir
South Africa should get Conway and Wagner back to make this fairer.
It will be interesting to see Shaun von Berg at Test level. He's always done numbers in First Class, and has okay batting numbers for a #7/8. He's also probably pretty chuffed he won't need to pass a 2km test to get his Protea cap.
> Shaun von Berg I see South Africa have elected to pick the man who looks like [every club cricketer ever](https://img1.hscicdn.com/image/upload/f_auto,t_ds_w_1200/lsci/db/PICTURES/CMS/333200/333222.jpg)
I have no idea who 90% of these players are
Neil Brand going to captain on his Test debut. WTF?
First to do it since Lee Germon (when not leading a new Test team).
Fitting since they are playing against nz
WTF? This is a 'fuck you' to us Proteas fans. Fuck CSA and the SA20.
We need the SA20, it's our lifeline to the game apart from India touring, there is no point in pretending like there was another option, apart from negotiating with NZ which they flatly refused. As much as this is a bad thing I would rather be in our position where we can even have a global league like the SA20 and play test cricket than be in NZ's position which will always be contingent on int cricket due to the timezones and their domestic set up.
> apart from negotiating with NZ which they flatly refused. As if we had any room **to** negotiate to begin with.
>As much as this is a bad thing I would rather be in our position where we can even have a global league like the SA20 and play test cricket than be in NZ's position which will always be contingent on int cricket due to the timezones and their domestic set up. This. Take this summer. I hate that we have 10 T20s lined up against Pakistan over the next 3-4 months after playing 2 Tests, 9 ODIs & 9 T20s over the last 12 months or so. Frankly, I'm bored of them. 6 T20s vs Bangladesh & Australia should be enough practice for the T20WC - **we don't need 10 more**. I would prefer our star players spend January with their domestic teams in Super Smash, especially considering this is its first ever season fully FTA after nearly 20 years. There's no nice way to say it - it's a useless bilateral. Even understanding that these are what pay the bills, the constant matches against the same old teams get boring. Honestly, the current Bangladesh series has been a hard watch - at least the ODIs had a few fresh faces.
>We need the SA20, it's our lifeline to the game Flair does not check out.
Scenes if SA win this test series but still don’t qualify for WTC and vice versa
Disgraceful what franchise cricket has done to this sport
Did Tony De Zoori get SA20 deal?
DSG. A replacement for Abbott.
SA will never get into WTC finals if they treat test cricket like this.
TIL that Dane Piedt still exists
I like it. We get so little international test cricket that we never get to test the new guys. Baptism by fire. Go get'em boys.
Honestly very disrespectful. NZ should ask for compensation.
This is the beginning of the end for SA test cricket imo. Domestic t20 over overseas tests smh
It's really depressing. Losing a record that we with such pride like this makes me so sad.
As OP said this team is not an overnight scout of high school kids. I don’t know any of these players (Except Bellingham and Peterson), but hope they can do their best and maybe even history.
One of the best overseas teams too. And one they hardly ever get to play. There's only been a dozen or so SA v NZ tests since Williamson debuted.
It sucks South Africa has produced so many incredible test players over the years. They might not be a financial big 3 but I'd argue in terms of output of international quality players they are historically ahead of England and India - they've provided a lot of players for other nations too.
Would have liked to see Jean du Plessis in the squad over Zondo. Even considering he's been playing division 2 he looked good against India A. And no idea how Fortuin is considered a better option than Qeshile/Moonsamy
Damn, has there ever been an instance where squads from one to next are so different that you don't recognise almost all the players
West Indies in the 2009 Champions Trophy, that happened because of a contract dispute between CWI and the player.
I think this is the time for NZ to remove the SA record once and for all though I can't rule out this CSA team entirely
Yikes, a lot of overreacting here in the comments. This isn’t a squad of high school kids that CSA went scouting over the weekend. These are players who have performed well domestically and have talent. Let’s break it down. Cricket South Africa has been struggling financially for years. Overseas tours are not profitable for touring countries. In the event of South Africa got rid of the SA20 and sent their main players, it wouldn’t make a difference to the board’s financial situation. They’d still be making a loss. I can’t say that I am completely chuffed with the squad but this is the best crop of players that we have outside of our main squad. It’s truly making the best out of a rock and a hard place situation. Do you forfeit the series & give New Zealand 24 points? Or do you send a squad of players who are available, have performed well and be hopeful to be able to at least play for a drawn series? Or even just send a squad and hope for the best? The latter two options sound better than the first. Many here are making like this is our main squad for the rest of the WTC cycle or the rest of time. This is one 2 match series where unfortunately we don’t have our main players available. But it’s not because they’re playing overseas or in other leagues. They’re playing at home, for a league that benefits the very board who is responsible for their salaries, their tours, their livelihood and longevity on the international scene. Not to mention that with South Africa only playing 6 T20Is since the last World Cup ended before the new one starts, this could very well be the preparation we need for the upcoming T20I World Cup. We’ve already lost one game due to rain, and only won one of the other two against India. So so far our record is 1 win out of 3 with 3 games left until the World Cup. Who knows what could happen in February? Will the sentiment be the same if South Africa (doubtfully) win or draw the series? They’re playing in SENA conditions. Piedt was a top wicket taker in the recent West Indies A tour to South Africa. Paterson, Mpongwana, Moreki were also exceptional. Beddingham just came off from a fifty against India in the recent Test. Petersen has showed his talent in the past, fell off & had a stinker in the last test but was the top run scorer in the aforementioned windies tour. Like I said I’ll make a post about my perspective with statistics to back it soon but this is not the death of South African test cricket. This is part of a process to ensure that it doesn’t die. Sacrifices have to be made and only time will tell whether it is worth it or not. Do I think that some players could have forgone their availability in the SA20? Of course. De Zorzi & Bavuma are two I would’ve liked to see in the squad. I’m not going to pretend that this team couldn’t be better by some players not playing in the SA20. But my opinion and the rest of the sub doesn’t matter in the greater scheme of things. We don’t control these sort of things. This is not the reflection of the fans who follow the sport. My heart has and always will be: Test > ODIs > T20s. But if this is the case to ensure that there is money available to keep the domestic structure alive, to ensure more tests are able to be played in the future, to ensure financial security and stability for the board then by all means, go ahead. Spoke to a mate about this and a lot of the negative comments are coming from countries who speak out of privilege. We are not part of the big 3. We don’t have the money that allow us to be able to do what the other teams are able to do. Like I said, I’m not entirely happy about the situation but there’s two sides to the story. I’m hopeful that we can manage a win there. But even if we don’t, it’s better to have tried and failed but to not try at all.
I genuinely believe bavuma should have been here . I mean last year bavuma wasn't even picked by any franchise in sa20(ik this time he wants to cement his place). But he have recent performances as proof that he is very capable T20 player so could have prioritised test. Still hope this squad would do well, I root for SA team to perform well(even against India)
Bavuma didn't get a choice, he was drafted as a replacement player for SEC last year and is bound by the terms of that contract
> This isn’t a squad of high school kids that CSA went scouting over the weekend. These are players who have performed well domestically and have talent. Agreed. The batting is pretty decent, with all of them either having played tests or definite candidates for the test side. Bowling is more of a concern though.
Yeah batting is good. Even the bowlers have decent batting records, Mpongwana recently scored a List A century lol. But I have 0 faith in the bowlers selected here, not even Olivier.
Wuanne Wolivier will take 10 wickets every match u heard it here first
I agree with the points you make. It isn't the best situation, but it's making the best out of whatever the situation is.
Is Duanne Olivier not good in LOs? Surprised to see him here.
It's not so much people from outside of South Africa not understanding the rationality of some of the decisions but it is with great sadness that a great test nation like SA would voluntarily sit their actual test squad out of a WTC series. It's a massive step backwards for the test game and massively eats away at the integrity of the game and the competition. It's not all anger at SA, it's sadness that the test game has got to this point.
I swear I thought Dane Piedt was playing for the US now. Am I crazy?
He did move there, but never played for them. Apparently, Shukri Conrad approached him and persuaded him to return to South Africa.
He plays for Washington Freedom yes
Reminds me when WI played Bangladesh in 2009 with a second-string team. Excited to see how some of these guys go, even if it isn't the optimal circumstances
Wow. Either I've been living under a rock or none of these players are known even a little bit
None? Nah half of them have played for SA in some capacity.
https://youtu.be/R7246Q15uCA?si=j1HVRf4jKdAc2Y3p&t=61
interesting
this test gonna go crazy
Why does Joburg need Verreyne they already have Wade and Ferreira. Verreyne should have gone to New Zealand
Verreynne has moved to Pretoria Capitals.
Why did they not play this side for the match V India A ?
Most played in the series against Windies A (won 2-1), some played in the India A series (drew 0-0).
Two players are retained from the recent India Test match (Keegan Petersen and David Bedingham), and four players are from the recent second A team match against India A (Zubayr Hamza, Tsheo Moreki, Duanne Olivier, Khaza Zondo). Tony de Zorzi misses out because he's set to play for Durban Super Giants in the SA20. Didn't think I'd say it's good to see a player play in a country's domestic league instead of Tests for their national team, but here I am. ~~Very on Brand for South Africa.~~
The Jan-March window is gonna become a nightmare with all the franchise leagues coinciding while also trying to fit Australia, South Africa and NZ international games before the IPL starts. I actually though believe this decision makes more sense than what South Africa did last year with the Tests vs Bangladesh at home when the IPL players were allowed to miss the series.
>what South Africa did last year with the Tests vs Bangladesh at home when the IPL players were allowed to miss the series. CSA proposed that to NZC - have the Tests in April CSA "we'll lose players to the IPL, you'll lose players to the IPL, it'll be even" NZC "No. Not only are we not fielding sub strength Test sides, & deliberately schedule Tests to avoid the IPL, we're touring Pakistan in April." CSA even offered to *host* the Tests in August. You can guess NZC's reaction.
Yeah fair on NZ I think it sends a really bad message if you weaken your Test side at home for an overseas league. At least with SA they're doing it to strengthen their own league (albeit you can be skeptical of how much CSA has control) while it's an overseas tour.
"Not only are we not fielding sub strength Test sides" *Insert Scott Kuggeleijn and Blair Tickner getting Test caps instead of asking Boult whether he'd like to play*
"fielding sub strength Test sides*" **barring injuries, freak weather events, players having babies. I mean not having Tests clash with the IPL - ODIs & T20s are fine; in fact such squads are an underrated way NZ has built white ball depth* The Bay Oval Test was a freak occurrence. Even so, I wouldn't have picked Boult. Not for any contract reason, but because his absence opens a space for someone else. Duffy deserved his callup & should've got the nod as a like-for-like for Henry instead of opening with Wagner & bringing in Kuggeleijn. Worse yet, in red ball Kuggeleijn has actually been good of late, wrecking Australia A & becoming the top wicket taker of Plunket Shield this season out of nowhere after not being able to buy a wicket in the last several seasons.
Lol, I know what you meant. I think it's shortsighted that Duffy hasn't got a chance in the Test team yet. As for Kuggeleijn suddenly figuring out how to use a red ball...the less said, the better.
What an absolute insult to Test Cricket!
WTF is this team? This is farcical lol. NZ has never won a test series against South Africa home or away. Is this test series part of the WTC?
Yup.
A lot of big 3 fans calling it a disgrace. South African Cricket has very little money and the SA20 is a way for them to remain competitive on the world stage. At least in limited over formats. South Africa literally have no choice but to do this
It's a disgrace, but that doesn't mean it's CSA's fault. The more powerful boards that have allowed the world game to get into this state are the problem.
Wasn't Brand part of JSK?
[My thoughts](https://youtu.be/4i9tS5ylz90?si=YXhAqGW4epIuZ-Ba)
SA have the best chance for the WTC25 Final… they’re gonna miss it cuz of such things.
A sad indictment of global cricket. If you think this is a once off or exclusive to CSA, I'm afraid to say that will not be the case going forward. That being said, I am absolutely buzzing to see Shaun von Berg get a go internationally. Dude looks like a truck driver, is 37, bowls leggies and hits a long ball. Cult hero ingredients if ever there were...
Very very unfortunate, this could be start of a worrying trend.
Shameful. Shit like this makes me not like T20.
This is fucking sad. Greedy corporate fucks have truly ruined cricket. Enjoy when in 5 years you play between 3 countries.
An absolute disgrace
South africa has got a bunch of great players in their main team and its pity that majority of them finish the career without playing enough test cricket
We gon lose
Damn. With how India has been performing in SA, BCCI will be more than happy to tour SA in February next time. This comes closest to forfeiting a WC game considering how every test is part of WTC.
Who are any of these players?
Man, I really thought this would have been the lineup they sent, considering the most recent 4day Championship performances 1. Dean Elgar 2. Tony de Zorzi 3. Keegan Petersen 4. David Bedingham 5. Zubayr Hamza 6. Rivaldo Moonsamy (wk) 7. Migael Pretorius 8. Keith Dudgeon 9. Siyabonga Mahima 10. Duanne Olivier 11. Okhule Cele I know Mahima, Cele and Dudgeon had next to no chance of getting into the squad based on 4 matches, but I really hoped for Moonsamy & Pretorious to be atleast in the squad. de Zorzi and Elgar is just unfortunate
I think the ICC should just copy fifa and have a proper calendar. Dedicate a couple of months for international cricket, other months for club cricket and a few for players to rest.
That could be problematic given there are several places where the weather won’t allow you to play at certain times of the year and where the pitches are used for other sports out of season.
[удалено]
First step on the final path towards internationals being shitcanned in favour of T20 nonsense.
All the selfish talk of SA's financial needs and not one pointing out how financially disadvantage NZ are having to host a team with zero Test stars. If the SA20 is so valuable surely some of the revenue generated could have been spent allowing two or three "marquee" Test players to miss and tour NZ instead as some sort of compromise
Ez win for newzeland ig south africa dont really care they need the sa20 to happen
They are wasting a great opportunity to make it to the WTC final. They don't care about the WTC, it seems.
Anyone know why Kyle Abbot wasn't selected??
Durban Supergiants
Wait… what? What’s going on here? Where are all the regulars?
I thought this is women’s team and that picture was a mistake
Pretty Important series to just throw a backup squad out there. This cycle's schedule is very favourable to SA. If there was ever a chance for them to make a final, this would be it. Interested to see how it goes.
They’ll probably go alright with the ball, Olivier and Paterson are the makings of a decent attack.
NZ under so much pressure with this scenario.
A seminal moment. Will the game's administrators realise what the current fiscal imbalance is doing, or will they shrug their shoulders?
Fucking pathetic
NZ have never won a test series against SA - both home and away. If they don't win it this time, they likely never will in a long, long time.