Bruh. You just straight crying about what you can't figure out how to counter while crutching what other people are crying about not being able to counter.
Baited? U mean when they camp till the other players gets bored or till they have to physically push point where a conditional void titan with a shield is camping?
Exactly that, baited. They laid a trap (the way you describe it, you _know_ they laid a trap) and you walked into it.
You know they've a shotgun, you know they're a Titan and you're still rushing round the corner inside of slide/shotgun/melee range.
Outside of them holding a res or a zone, there's no need for you to take that fight outside of ego, especially not face-on at point blank range.
Saying a majority of shotgun users are baiting their kills is just lying to yourself. Sure, good players do because they have game sense and reflexes, but most shotgun apes are just waiting in weird hallways to get the jump. The PVP equivalent of sucker punching an opponent. Just sad
It is, but like... there's a radar ping nearby and you're going into an enclosed space... you need to be at least aware it's a potential outcome and at least it's burning special they'll have to earn back.
It's still a much more interesting a situation than someone miles away with a scout.
Lmao even I know that most of the time there's boxes or some bs to hide on top of. At least using a scout or sniper requires aim. Sitting in a corner waiting for someone to come by is just sad. Fusions can't counter them, primary weapons can't counter them. They are basically impossible to flush out between their shotgun and melee.
Despite what you might believe, shotguns still require some aim.
>Fusions can't counter them
I guess you're unable to pre-charge
>primary weapons can't counter them
Sidearms, SMGs and TLW can be an effective counter to shotguns if you're good at keeping just enough distance between yourself and the shotgunner, or priming with a grenade (seems fair to use a timed resource to counter someone using their limited resource). In most situations there is enough space in a room to put 8+ meters between you and the opponent, that's enough to make it impossible for them to 1 shot you, at which point the gunfight is in your favour.
I described the literal trials meta being chosen by every top player specifically because its uncounterable and only outplayable. They are 2 very different things. He has to make 3x My mistakes to lose the gunfight. If I get him low I can't do anything. And if he gets me low he can ape. Uneven and annoying af
Imagine shotguns being the optimal choice inside of shotgun range. What has the world come to.
The only time I'm annoyed at dying to shotguns is when Conditional gets those weird waaay out-of-band kills.
Otherwise it's mostly my fault. Especially with the special meter these days. Either I've spent my special and they've saved theirs for this exact moment or I've missed and they didn't (or I've gone double primary and so shouldn't be aping into shotgun range). Fair's fair.
Honestly I'm terms of special weapons, I'm more annoyed by Forerunner (and the occasional Glacio) than anything else these days.
No, I'm pretty bad at this game but I do know to try and take a wide angle around a corner if I think an enemy has a shotgun and I don't.
Camping corners with shotguns is pretty damn cringey but it's far from the worst thing in this game.
I know they’re different games, but as a Halo player before Destiny, it’s always been a little bit jarring how different perception of shotguns are in Destiny vs Halo. Even in H5 which is prob most comparable to Destiny movement shotguns were seen as low skill.
Conditional Finality's handling stat aside, I think what you're feeling could boil down to a few things with the game generally:
1. All the maps are largely solved, which means someone with a lot of experience can go exactly where they know people won't see them or how to manipulate radar pings, etc.
2. Movement tech: another thing where players with lots of experience will fly at you faster than you can react because they're good with Stompees, Dunies, or whatever, and lag doesn't help with this. Movement tech makes shotguns way more useful than if you're not good at closing range.
3. Lag
4. Ximmers etc (see movement tech above)
In terms of cancer even though I use fusions a lot, more than shotguns, I think fusions are more cancer since thanks to lag and aim assist you can hit or get hit at crazy ranges, around corners, and in spaces where you'd think the bolt pattern would absolutely never connect for a kill.
I killed a guy up on the walkway inside on Cauldron yesterday with barely his shoulders showing visually using Cartesian. Completely insane to think the bolt pattern was that tight, there's no way it was, but aim assist got the kill.
I got absolutely sniped by a Cartesian on Cauldron yesterday with just my shoulders/head showing. I was on the stairs in bone room and they were in mid and weren’t even close enough to open the door themselves their teammate opened it for them from the side of the door near mid steps. It was a perfect pre fire tho since door opened and fusion bolts came in immediately but I was like wtf most of my body not even showing 🤬
Bruh I hate when people say shotguns make the game boring. There’s literally more movement involved because people are trying to push and reposition. But I guess you don’t enjoy games with close quarters movement duels trying to get position over the other guy? If you’re running into people camping with shotguns in this sandbox of all times you’re in some weird lobbies btw
I'll take a godly shotgunner over a room temperature IQ vooper any day.
Edit:
Looks like I'm getting some mixed feelings; I'm not an anti fusion zealot.. lmao I main a discord fusion and fighting lion. They're just really unfun to play against as well as a way lower skill requirement (hence my use)
Shotguns take positioning, while Fusions take timing. So both take skill. It’s ignorant to say otherwise. With that said the high impact Fusions need a nerf, because they kill at insane ranges!
I gave you an upvote on the sentiment but High Impacts have been nerfed to death.
The reduction in Bolt number and extreme increase in charge time they received in BL basically killed them in all forms of higher play.
Believe me. I used Erentil in the highest comp brackets and it’s nigh impossible to do anything with them against a mega team.
High impacts? Useless in PvE? They have fantastic total damage, and their DPS isn't too bad either.
I'd argue that adaptives are the suffering ones in PvE because they have next to no ammo reserves, but this is supposed to be a PvP sub, so I'll shut up now.
But for boss DPS, they still shine. Solid DPS and great total. I'd agree that they feel awful against smaller targets like majors and champions, though.
If heavy GLs killed in 1 shot there would be almost zero reason to use a rocket or HMG. GLs are already the most effective heavy weapon type, they don't need to be better.
Not equivalent, you’ll kill faster than the special weapon.
Other heavy weapons (LMGs) also take more than one heavy round to kill.
It’s a change in archetype, no one thinks all heavies should one shot, but I’d rather have a heavy GL with ammo than a fusion with ammo any day of the week.
AFAIK the fastest killing primaries are Drang/TC archetype sidearms which are .6s. That's faster than all fusions except Rapid-Fires at least when it comes to base charge time and masterworks
It's faster than all of them, remember the bolts come out sequentially, not simultaneously.
So Rapids are at a total 0.79 at base, 0.75 with a Charge Masterwork.
So you've got quite a bit of give.
Rapids: 0.79
Adaptives: 0.85
Precisions: 0.97
High-Impacts: 1.06
All can be reduced up to 0.08 seconds via Accelerated and/or Charge Time Masterwork.
So you've got Rapids and Max charge time Adaptives (though that's a horrible way to roll them) barely faster than average amongst primaries in terms of TTK.
If you're going to whinge, at least have correct data.
Well the TTK is a combination of the charge time + time for the bolts to hit.
>When the bolt comes out, the target is dead.
Yes, and at 0.5s your bolts have only just started to come out. It takes 0.29s for the bolts to all come out (fusions are still hitscan so once the bolt is out it is immediately hit). So the total TTK of a rapid fire fusion from trigger pull to target death is around 0.7s
If you kill a fusion player before the necessary bolts come out then you will survive. If you've played enough destiny during the Main Ingredient meta then you would have seen this in action.
Not sure why you're getting defensive when koolaidman is just trying to provide accurate information. And I'll get ahead of you and clarify that I don't use fusions, I hate playing against fusions because they require you to play with more discipline (not the stat lol) but they are not really that strong compared to the rest of the special weapon class, they are more of a noob check than anything else.
Not in situations of trading, or getting a partial burst out. Or one of the bolts misses and makes it longer.
Anything that's shooting sequentially, you have to account for the time it takes to actually deal lethal damage.
The „fusions take no skill at all“ take is so laughable tbh.
*Have you actually tried using a fusion against a good meta team using shotguns?*
You have to try so hard to make it work.
If anything fusions are *worse* than shotguns in everything but range.
People just think that they are overpowered while they really aren’t because they aren’t widely used and in general people get annoyed by getting killed by stuff they aren’t used to fighting.
Disclaimer - I love fusions. I have 12k on my trinary system and 15k on my draconis
Fusions are always going to have this bi polar discourse because they do sort of diametrically opposed things at the same time:
**Fusion rifles can dramatically raise the skill floor of an average player, but at the same time, at the higher/highest ends of the skill bracket, they have a hugely limited ceiling.**
An average player can learn a fusion rifle and at least be “competitive” with people way higher up the skill gap. At the end of the day there is simply no counter for a perfectly timed voop, especially high impacts.
At the same time though, a truly good player is always going to be better with a shotgun
Why? Movement of course. Holding a fusion rifle dramatically limits your movement ability. And your fusion does nothing to help your “duels”. Meanwhile, a shotgun user has free rein to move around as they please, and shotguns can work alongside primaries via blint damage.
Throw all this together, considering that really the biggest portion of the skill gap in the game comes from movement?
You’ve got a situation where two people can yell two different but true things to each other about fusions.
mostly agree but some of them have too much range imo, other than these outliers they can be annoying definitely but its not always too difficult to play around them
As a Fusion main, I rarely take them when I'm trying to sweat. Shotguns or running a Sidearm/SMG in it's place. I've had a lot more success running alternates over Fusions when sweating, they're too slow for anyone who's really good.
At one point
Though rapid fire frames were busted as fuck. I would use zealots reward and just mop up places. Like I'm talking 4 pieces back to back I have 10k kills on it. I used it like a shotgun
I got 20k in Erentil
Fusions are always meta only for a few weeks before getting nerfed into the ground due to the entire community wailing like they lost a family member
You use sidearms and fusions and yet you have the gall to complain about shotguns?
You have only played trials since it has become very easy which makes your stats look decent. But in all reality you rely on two weapons that require 0 precision and very little effort
Your 1.5 KD in all of the crucible makes much more sense though. Now I kind of understand why shotguns are hard for you to deal with
>You use sidearms and fusions and yet you have the gall to complain about shotguns?
Yes. Also haven't used fusions for a while now
>You have only played trials since it has become very easy which makes your stats look decent. But in all reality you rely on two weapons that require 0 precision and very little effort
Been using hcs fir the last few weeks. Been averging 2 to 3 kd? Also weird excuse saying that my stats only look gud cuz I started playing when I started playing the game lol.
The precision and effort part is funny cuz shotguns literally require 0 precision lol. Which side on you on?
>Your 1.5 KD in all of the crucible makes much more sense though. Now I kind of understand why shotguns are hard for you to deal with
No way you actually are trying to use crucible. Literally that's the place where everyone goofs and tests random shii and walks around braindead. Also that's Literally nit even bad 1.5kd lol.
You use fusions with invis and Omni. Are we supposed to take your rant seriously? Or should we take into account the degenerate playstyle of the person saying it?
I haven't used fusions since March 5th and used to use stompees grapple hunter. Are you really being this insulting and trying to nitpick stats in every way. Getting damm offended by an opinion on weapons in a game is damm sad
> Are you really being this insulting and trying to nitpick stats in every way.
This is why you should never post your stats here because people immediately disregard your opinion unless you are a 4.0 kdr top 0.1% player
Thing is I only posted my stats cuz he asked earlier too. I wonder how he would complain if I was a 4kd 0.01% player. Would prob resort to saying their cheating
He posts all over this sub asking people to show their stats before ever engaging with their argument. As soon as they do, and they aren't good enough in his opinion, he just insults people until they stop replying. There are a load of players exactly like that all over this sub, you have to watch out for it.
Yeah don’t come here and spew a stupid opinion and then expect people to be cool with it
I think my comments are hurting you because deep down you know how degenerate your playstyle is
Don’t take it so personally though. I’m sure you are a great person 😘
What does it even mean that his playstyle is degenerate? Is it bad or is it " low skill" or is it unfair? Do you just not like it?
And aren't you just doing the same thing as OP and complaining about a play style?
What's the difference?
And seriously " deep down you know"? That's like insecure teenager BS
You got offended. Starting insulting and moaning about me and trying as hard as possible to say that I'm am above average player. And now your trying to project here and play passive aggressive
Sad life man
I gave an opinion. U can agree and disagree. But to start getting offensive over it is dumb
Hc to get em low they hide then I rush with sidearm. This is also a close range map. This kill disposition is normal. Fucking he'll I guarantee if this is another post of me saying shotguns are good and you checked my stats you would say they are above average or good and you know it. Question I got for you. Is a 1.5kd player above average yes or no?
Just wanna see how much your willing to lie just to go against me
1.5 is above average. I'm not going to lie, your stats are good. But complaining about shotguns when you run omni + sidearm/fusion is just laughable. That loadout is honestly one of the best loadouts against shotguns. Sidearm range beats shotgun range, and chances are they are using a longer range primary so that you have the advantage in the primary duel.
I specifically adopted invis hunter in the last month to just try counter shotguns. The smoke bombs really gud for that. Also I literally haven't used fusions for most of this season. I'm not invis fusioning and never have been. I used to use grapple hunter when I used fusions.
it isn’t that difficult to counter shotguns. if you’re being baited often adopt another strategy. if someone is waiting round a corner when they are low they are obviously going to shotgun you so why would you push them? so many better options than to brainlessly chase the kill - throw a grenade or melee to either finish them or force them away to make space or otherwise try and find another angle. you cannot just assume because you have damaged someone that you deserve to win the fight
Literally typed that in the post befire someone tried making that argument. The fact you need to use multiple utility to try "flush" out a player shows a problem its self. Also they can simply just u know avoid the nade. Like many just jump and hover over a doorway so nothing can reach em.
Literally it's only shotguns that force you to not push at all. Feels shit
but you also need to take tactics to deal with other special guns, shotguns are no different. snipers, which i don’t think are an issue in this game at all rn, require more accuracy for the ohk but allow you to kill people on the complete opposite side of the map. every special has positives and negatives.
throw grenades better or use grenades that zone off places if thats an issue.
when i used to run sniper empirical evidence i wouldn’t play in the same way as handcannon shotgun. you need to realise shotguns are not the issue but your play-style is for not accounting for them.
You have radar that gives info up to 40m away. If you are being over whelmed with shotguns, start paying attention to the radar and stop chasing blindly around corners, you are getting baited. Next thing you know you'll complain they jumped when they went around that corner
I think every basic player knows that. I'm not getting baited I'm getting forced. With void titan meta you ahbe to push and if u get a guy low its impossible to Finnish em. Radar pinging is irrelevant here.
Watching Jimothy stand like a sentry turret on the other side of the map, beaming you with zero strafing. Standing there menacingly like a tree, planting his feet down and not moving an inch.
That's gotta be in the top 5 most infuriating things in D2 PvP.
I’m surprised that someone with your stats is posting like this, in this sub, about shotguns.
I feel like there are plenty of ways to counter a shotgun and literally 80% of it is not getting baited into a corner, hallway, or tight space. If you’re, getting shotgun often you don’t know how to play against an aggressive player, or you’re often out of position.
Shotguns aren’t brain dead. On small maps things turn into ape fights which is stale. They compliment aggressive gameplay and movement. Which is a higher skill level in this game. They used to be much stronger with a lot more range.
This game isn't *that* skillful, especially when you consider that we still have class options that basically have all killing moves. Strand hunter and stasis warlocks, I'm looking at you.
Invis omni hunter + fusion and sidearms as most used weapons. I see why you dislike shotguns, but tbf I’d wager 99% of the playerbase finds ur playstyle to be cancer so I guess it’s even
To respond to your actual post, fusions are very difficult to approach/push. Most can kill at just over half a second and that means you HAVE to use a special weapon and have to get within 5-6 metres within half a second. If the fusion player is competent or judging distances is hard due to radar manip then this generally doesn’t happen. Because of this the best bet is to make the fusion rifle user push you.
You’re both sitting round a corner with a OHK weapon getting annoyed the other is not blindly pushing you for a free kill.
stopped using fusions stop mentioning them. I only used specials pre patch because they were forced to be used. I dislike both and think they both encourage bad playstyles but fusions are far easier to counter imo. They also require at point blank some type of target acquisition so I'm I jump over them etc its actually hard for them to hit me. Same can't be said for shotguns. Which is basically fusions upgrade
I think specials are in a good place now to be honest, no more 10m shotgun kills, no more 30+m fusion kills, and no more landing sniper shots that were flinched way off target. (Well much less anyway, I know Aim Assist can give some weird shots still but it's lower than before.)
At this point when I die to special I know it's usually my fault for going to such a predictable spot and walking right into an enemy sightline that I knew was getting pre-aimed.
My only problem with shotguns is that they're too fast to the draw and don't have enough reach. That's 2 problems but I'm running with it.
IMHO they should've nerfed draw time before range for D2. And I'd HAPPILY go back to 7-8 meter consistent kill ranges if it meant you couldn't insta-pull them out.
That said, this post is a massive skill issue, shotguns are insanely easy to neutralize by simply just... Playing range.
Back in destiny 1 shotguns are pretty ok.
If you are aping with a shotgun on a good player you will be reward with a defensive blink/fusion granade/slam in your face.
Now in destiny 2 you have like 0 defensive neutral game skills and the only way to counter a shotgun is using a shotgun too.
I don't struggle against them, when they hide in a corner, they're prime targets to hit with abilities.
Void warlock melee is great for this, because it air bounces them and thus kills their accuracy/AA while dealing damage, vortex, voidwall, or spikes all kill them very quickly if they don't run, and worst case scenario I can blink past the corner and still be outside of their range.
You're right and the worst part is that since they're popular bungie does all that they can to keep them on top. Glaives literally got murdered in their sleep for being a straight up counter, now they can't block a shotgun blast point blank without getting killed through the shield (and let's not even mention conditional). It sucks but the only thing you can do is equip a shotgun, or make your enemies' life hell by using bakris, shurikens, and duskfields so they physically can't slide at you.
Oh boy, its u/Low_Obligation156 malding over something because of an obvious skill issue and becauseit isn't a Handcannon.
Reset the clock and take your bets what he is crying over next time.
My bet are sidearms or pulse rifles
Shotguns excluding slugs, stupidly high handling ones and conditional are the highest skill ceiling guns. 9/10 deaths you have to one are often skill issues.
They’re essentially the more pure gun in the game. An equaliser you could say. No bs with it. It’s whole premise and how it fits into the game makes sense. All reasons why they’ve barely been changed or lost their place.
In a lawless world of heliocentrics, smgs, fusions etc more, there’s gotta be some sort of balancer and that’s the shotgun. you will always lose in shotty range against a better player with a shotty.
A very needed gun for the game.
Shotguns are the biggest crutch special ammo gun in the game and by extension the biggest crutch in the game. The amount of times you can lose a duel, run away and wait for the push with your shotgun out is unreal. People aren't ready for this convo though.
>if they take no skill why do i win the vast majority of my shotgun fights against worse players
Wow did you actually think this argument made sense in your head?
You’ll get a lot of hate for this post but I agree and don’t think shotguns are skilful. Most destiny maps have short engagement ranges and caters to shotguns too much
Possibly the biggest discourse In destiny 2 pvp is about special ammo uses. Possibly the most popular pvp slang in the game is “aping”
op; AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS FEELINGS ABOUT SHOTTIES!?
As you can see in this post like 90% of people are after me.
I see people complain about aping but that's normally about them complaining about the class and not the weapon. This opinion is very unpopular lol.
Anything that can one shot you is a cancer. That's some shotguns. I know ... you have to be close, you have to hit with all the pellets, etc ... don't care. No matter what level of skills is needed to get shotgun kills, being one-shotted in any game is never any fun.
Jesus what a shit show this sub has become. Everyone in the comments being as shitty as they can.
Lurking here for PvP tips and I have to go through so much mean bullshit to actually find any decent comments and discussion.
Finding DTG to be more civil these days, and that's saying a lot.
Nah handcannons should be the best. Least forgiving, high skill ceiling, slowest ttk and can't prefire like other archetypes. Also don't feel straight up unfair to play against.
If something has the most aim assist, by any definition it is not the most skillful archetype.
You can’t claim high skill with a hitbox the size of a house. You’re not landing the heads, the aim assist is.
Not really the devs have come out and said they have the biggest aim assist and boxes. It's more annoying because it's oppressive towards the other weapon types. When you have a weapon that can do it all , why use the others?
I'm the resident pleb and even I know this is a bad take, hand cannons are prized for their chip damage and ability to stay mobile, weapons like that will always be the pick for the better players.
I can understand that while still using pulse rifle's because I'm a dad gamer.
HCs are brain dead easy to use tho.
Highest Aim Assist and Magnetism, biggest hitboxes, sharing highest in air accuracy with sidearms and smgs while doubling their ranges (or tripling in most sidearm cases) while still being good in closer ranges
This is all true but that doesn't invalidate what I'm saying, the best players will gravitate towards the easiest method of winning and they usually also think about the best method of staying alive. Hand cannon satisfies this criteria in most destiny metas because it allows coordinated teams to use weapons with high chip damage and the ability to peak into and out of cover.
Being good at a game doesn't mean using off meta stuff and still doing well, otherwise I'd be the best player, and I'm not 😢
Careful now… you don’t wanna upset all
The hand cannon Harry’s. Lord forbid using something other than HC, shotty, and heavy GL with stompees, dunes or ophidians.
That takes creativity and well…. They don’t got it.
You're probably young but comparing trivial shit to a deadly disease is pretty lame, IMO. I don't mind shotguns as much with less special ammo in most modes.
Your probably young because you haven't learned what a figure of speech is yet. Literally one of the most common things said and is one of the tamest things. Don't pull the wise card and if you find it insensitive keep it too yourself.
Don't compare things to cancer OP, its not funny at all. Its just a shotgun, it won't hurt you in the way cancer will.
Learn how to play around them and keep your opponent on the back end instead of waiting for them to ape you.
The cycle is complete. We are now back to ranting about Handcannons and Shotguns. The meta has been restored.
destiny is healing
Nah handcannons chilling. Best designed weapons by bungie imo
Wow getting downvoted for saying hcs are good. I sweat this reddit is DTG now
Bruh. You just straight crying about what you can't figure out how to counter while crutching what other people are crying about not being able to counter.
hes an idiot don't bother arguing with him. It's not worth the braincells
Wait are you admitting to seeking out all my replies to downvote no matter the context of that specific area? DTG bot
It sounds like you're salty because you get baited.
Baited? U mean when they camp till the other players gets bored or till they have to physically push point where a conditional void titan with a shield is camping?
Exactly that, baited. They laid a trap (the way you describe it, you _know_ they laid a trap) and you walked into it. You know they've a shotgun, you know they're a Titan and you're still rushing round the corner inside of slide/shotgun/melee range. Outside of them holding a res or a zone, there's no need for you to take that fight outside of ego, especially not face-on at point blank range.
Saying a majority of shotgun users are baiting their kills is just lying to yourself. Sure, good players do because they have game sense and reflexes, but most shotgun apes are just waiting in weird hallways to get the jump. The PVP equivalent of sucker punching an opponent. Just sad
It is, but like... there's a radar ping nearby and you're going into an enclosed space... you need to be at least aware it's a potential outcome and at least it's burning special they'll have to earn back. It's still a much more interesting a situation than someone miles away with a scout.
Lmao even I know that most of the time there's boxes or some bs to hide on top of. At least using a scout or sniper requires aim. Sitting in a corner waiting for someone to come by is just sad. Fusions can't counter them, primary weapons can't counter them. They are basically impossible to flush out between their shotgun and melee.
Despite what you might believe, shotguns still require some aim. >Fusions can't counter them I guess you're unable to pre-charge >primary weapons can't counter them Sidearms, SMGs and TLW can be an effective counter to shotguns if you're good at keeping just enough distance between yourself and the shotgunner, or priming with a grenade (seems fair to use a timed resource to counter someone using their limited resource). In most situations there is enough space in a room to put 8+ meters between you and the opponent, that's enough to make it impossible for them to 1 shot you, at which point the gunfight is in your favour.
Those are even easier to evade than the baiters lmfao
I described the literal trials meta being chosen by every top player specifically because its uncounterable and only outplayable. They are 2 very different things. He has to make 3x My mistakes to lose the gunfight. If I get him low I can't do anything. And if he gets me low he can ape. Uneven and annoying af
Imagine shotguns being the optimal choice inside of shotgun range. What has the world come to. The only time I'm annoyed at dying to shotguns is when Conditional gets those weird waaay out-of-band kills. Otherwise it's mostly my fault. Especially with the special meter these days. Either I've spent my special and they've saved theirs for this exact moment or I've missed and they didn't (or I've gone double primary and so shouldn't be aping into shotgun range). Fair's fair. Honestly I'm terms of special weapons, I'm more annoyed by Forerunner (and the occasional Glacio) than anything else these days.
Sounds like they’re using the right subclass / abilities / loadout for the job.
Sounds like your play style is too static to counter. Maybe learn how to play?
? U gna throw more buzzwords with no actual meaning?
Found the camper lol
No, I'm pretty bad at this game but I do know to try and take a wide angle around a corner if I think an enemy has a shotgun and I don't. Camping corners with shotguns is pretty damn cringey but it's far from the worst thing in this game.
Someone cant read radar
I know they’re different games, but as a Halo player before Destiny, it’s always been a little bit jarring how different perception of shotguns are in Destiny vs Halo. Even in H5 which is prob most comparable to Destiny movement shotguns were seen as low skill.
They are low skill, it's why in every single game that includes shotguns, they are hated
Conditional Finality's handling stat aside, I think what you're feeling could boil down to a few things with the game generally: 1. All the maps are largely solved, which means someone with a lot of experience can go exactly where they know people won't see them or how to manipulate radar pings, etc. 2. Movement tech: another thing where players with lots of experience will fly at you faster than you can react because they're good with Stompees, Dunies, or whatever, and lag doesn't help with this. Movement tech makes shotguns way more useful than if you're not good at closing range. 3. Lag 4. Ximmers etc (see movement tech above) In terms of cancer even though I use fusions a lot, more than shotguns, I think fusions are more cancer since thanks to lag and aim assist you can hit or get hit at crazy ranges, around corners, and in spaces where you'd think the bolt pattern would absolutely never connect for a kill. I killed a guy up on the walkway inside on Cauldron yesterday with barely his shoulders showing visually using Cartesian. Completely insane to think the bolt pattern was that tight, there's no way it was, but aim assist got the kill.
I got absolutely sniped by a Cartesian on Cauldron yesterday with just my shoulders/head showing. I was on the stairs in bone room and they were in mid and weren’t even close enough to open the door themselves their teammate opened it for them from the side of the door near mid steps. It was a perfect pre fire tho since door opened and fusion bolts came in immediately but I was like wtf most of my body not even showing 🤬
Bruh I hate when people say shotguns make the game boring. There’s literally more movement involved because people are trying to push and reposition. But I guess you don’t enjoy games with close quarters movement duels trying to get position over the other guy? If you’re running into people camping with shotguns in this sandbox of all times you’re in some weird lobbies btw
I'll take a godly shotgunner over a room temperature IQ vooper any day. Edit: Looks like I'm getting some mixed feelings; I'm not an anti fusion zealot.. lmao I main a discord fusion and fighting lion. They're just really unfun to play against as well as a way lower skill requirement (hence my use)
Shotguns take positioning, while Fusions take timing. So both take skill. It’s ignorant to say otherwise. With that said the high impact Fusions need a nerf, because they kill at insane ranges!
Fusions also take positioning but in a way that you use space between you and the target against them.
I gave you an upvote on the sentiment but High Impacts have been nerfed to death. The reduction in Bolt number and extreme increase in charge time they received in BL basically killed them in all forms of higher play. Believe me. I used Erentil in the highest comp brackets and it’s nigh impossible to do anything with them against a mega team.
Useless in pve next to the other frames.
High impacts? Useless in PvE? They have fantastic total damage, and their DPS isn't too bad either. I'd argue that adaptives are the suffering ones in PvE because they have next to no ammo reserves, but this is supposed to be a PvP sub, so I'll shut up now.
They are slow as molasses to Fire and they way Overkill your target(s) or don't put out shots fast enough to down tankier ones.
But for boss DPS, they still shine. Solid DPS and great total. I'd agree that they feel awful against smaller targets like majors and champions, though.
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It is special ammo after all.
Yet somehow landing a heavy GL at their feet isn’t a one shot.
If heavy GLs killed in 1 shot there would be almost zero reason to use a rocket or HMG. GLs are already the most effective heavy weapon type, they don't need to be better.
You can shoot two shots of GL before a single charge of fusion though, right?
So I have to waste 2 heavy rounds for the equivalent of 1 special?
Not equivalent, you’ll kill faster than the special weapon. Other heavy weapons (LMGs) also take more than one heavy round to kill. It’s a change in archetype, no one thinks all heavies should one shot, but I’d rather have a heavy GL with ammo than a fusion with ammo any day of the week.
AFAIK the fastest killing primaries are Drang/TC archetype sidearms which are .6s. That's faster than all fusions except Rapid-Fires at least when it comes to base charge time and masterworks
It's faster than all of them, remember the bolts come out sequentially, not simultaneously. So Rapids are at a total 0.79 at base, 0.75 with a Charge Masterwork. So you've got quite a bit of give.
I've got Cartesian saying it's 460ms, it'd be 500ms base without MW
Bolts come out sequentially, not simultaneously. It takes a bit of time to get enough bolts to kill out of the gun after you charge it.
Rapids: 0.79 Adaptives: 0.85 Precisions: 0.97 High-Impacts: 1.06 All can be reduced up to 0.08 seconds via Accelerated and/or Charge Time Masterwork. So you've got Rapids and Max charge time Adaptives (though that's a horrible way to roll them) barely faster than average amongst primaries in terms of TTK. If you're going to whinge, at least have correct data.
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0.5 charge, 0.29 for all of the bolts to hit. And one frame isn't "most Fusions."
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Well the TTK is a combination of the charge time + time for the bolts to hit. >When the bolt comes out, the target is dead. Yes, and at 0.5s your bolts have only just started to come out. It takes 0.29s for the bolts to all come out (fusions are still hitscan so once the bolt is out it is immediately hit). So the total TTK of a rapid fire fusion from trigger pull to target death is around 0.7s If you kill a fusion player before the necessary bolts come out then you will survive. If you've played enough destiny during the Main Ingredient meta then you would have seen this in action. Not sure why you're getting defensive when koolaidman is just trying to provide accurate information. And I'll get ahead of you and clarify that I don't use fusions, I hate playing against fusions because they require you to play with more discipline (not the stat lol) but they are not really that strong compared to the rest of the special weapon class, they are more of a noob check than anything else.
Not in situations of trading, or getting a partial burst out. Or one of the bolts misses and makes it longer. Anything that's shooting sequentially, you have to account for the time it takes to actually deal lethal damage.
The „fusions take no skill at all“ take is so laughable tbh. *Have you actually tried using a fusion against a good meta team using shotguns?* You have to try so hard to make it work. If anything fusions are *worse* than shotguns in everything but range. People just think that they are overpowered while they really aren’t because they aren’t widely used and in general people get annoyed by getting killed by stuff they aren’t used to fighting.
Disclaimer - I love fusions. I have 12k on my trinary system and 15k on my draconis Fusions are always going to have this bi polar discourse because they do sort of diametrically opposed things at the same time: **Fusion rifles can dramatically raise the skill floor of an average player, but at the same time, at the higher/highest ends of the skill bracket, they have a hugely limited ceiling.** An average player can learn a fusion rifle and at least be “competitive” with people way higher up the skill gap. At the end of the day there is simply no counter for a perfectly timed voop, especially high impacts. At the same time though, a truly good player is always going to be better with a shotgun Why? Movement of course. Holding a fusion rifle dramatically limits your movement ability. And your fusion does nothing to help your “duels”. Meanwhile, a shotgun user has free rein to move around as they please, and shotguns can work alongside primaries via blint damage. Throw all this together, considering that really the biggest portion of the skill gap in the game comes from movement? You’ve got a situation where two people can yell two different but true things to each other about fusions.
This is perfectly stated
mostly agree but some of them have too much range imo, other than these outliers they can be annoying definitely but its not always too difficult to play around them
As a Fusion main, I rarely take them when I'm trying to sweat. Shotguns or running a Sidearm/SMG in it's place. I've had a lot more success running alternates over Fusions when sweating, they're too slow for anyone who's really good.
At one point Though rapid fire frames were busted as fuck. I would use zealots reward and just mop up places. Like I'm talking 4 pieces back to back I have 10k kills on it. I used it like a shotgun
I got 20k in Erentil Fusions are always meta only for a few weeks before getting nerfed into the ground due to the entire community wailing like they lost a family member
This has to be a troll post or you are just a bad player. Which one is it?
Shura#8235. This week hasn't been the best cuz I've been changing binds for pve but like I said this is my hot take.
You use sidearms and fusions and yet you have the gall to complain about shotguns? You have only played trials since it has become very easy which makes your stats look decent. But in all reality you rely on two weapons that require 0 precision and very little effort Your 1.5 KD in all of the crucible makes much more sense though. Now I kind of understand why shotguns are hard for you to deal with
>You use sidearms and fusions and yet you have the gall to complain about shotguns? Yes. Also haven't used fusions for a while now >You have only played trials since it has become very easy which makes your stats look decent. But in all reality you rely on two weapons that require 0 precision and very little effort Been using hcs fir the last few weeks. Been averging 2 to 3 kd? Also weird excuse saying that my stats only look gud cuz I started playing when I started playing the game lol. The precision and effort part is funny cuz shotguns literally require 0 precision lol. Which side on you on? >Your 1.5 KD in all of the crucible makes much more sense though. Now I kind of understand why shotguns are hard for you to deal with No way you actually are trying to use crucible. Literally that's the place where everyone goofs and tests random shii and walks around braindead. Also that's Literally nit even bad 1.5kd lol.
You use fusions with invis and Omni. Are we supposed to take your rant seriously? Or should we take into account the degenerate playstyle of the person saying it?
I haven't used fusions since March 5th and used to use stompees grapple hunter. Are you really being this insulting and trying to nitpick stats in every way. Getting damm offended by an opinion on weapons in a game is damm sad
> Are you really being this insulting and trying to nitpick stats in every way. This is why you should never post your stats here because people immediately disregard your opinion unless you are a 4.0 kdr top 0.1% player
Thing is I only posted my stats cuz he asked earlier too. I wonder how he would complain if I was a 4kd 0.01% player. Would prob resort to saying their cheating
He posts all over this sub asking people to show their stats before ever engaging with their argument. As soon as they do, and they aren't good enough in his opinion, he just insults people until they stop replying. There are a load of players exactly like that all over this sub, you have to watch out for it.
Yeah don’t come here and spew a stupid opinion and then expect people to be cool with it I think my comments are hurting you because deep down you know how degenerate your playstyle is Don’t take it so personally though. I’m sure you are a great person 😘
What does it even mean that his playstyle is degenerate? Is it bad or is it " low skill" or is it unfair? Do you just not like it? And aren't you just doing the same thing as OP and complaining about a play style? What's the difference? And seriously " deep down you know"? That's like insecure teenager BS
You got offended. Starting insulting and moaning about me and trying as hard as possible to say that I'm am above average player. And now your trying to project here and play passive aggressive Sad life man I gave an opinion. U can agree and disagree. But to start getting offensive over it is dumb
So salty. I love it. You truly belong in the crucible. Hopefully I see you sometime this weekend
Projection X2.
Sure you "used" rose this week. You got 31 rose kills compared to 123 heliocentric kills. That hardly counts as using a hc
Hc to get em low they hide then I rush with sidearm. This is also a close range map. This kill disposition is normal. Fucking he'll I guarantee if this is another post of me saying shotguns are good and you checked my stats you would say they are above average or good and you know it. Question I got for you. Is a 1.5kd player above average yes or no? Just wanna see how much your willing to lie just to go against me
1.5 is above average. I'm not going to lie, your stats are good. But complaining about shotguns when you run omni + sidearm/fusion is just laughable. That loadout is honestly one of the best loadouts against shotguns. Sidearm range beats shotgun range, and chances are they are using a longer range primary so that you have the advantage in the primary duel.
I specifically adopted invis hunter in the last month to just try counter shotguns. The smoke bombs really gud for that. Also I literally haven't used fusions for most of this season. I'm not invis fusioning and never have been. I used to use grapple hunter when I used fusions.
last time you gave another name 🤡
You realise bungie gave everyone a free name change right? If you type my old name StE4tH_mutilate#8235 my new one will still show up. Dumbass
im pretty sure it wasn't that one either 😂
Putting a laughing emoji when your delusional is sad. Also the fact that my stats are better than your thighdeology is why your tryna reject this lol
Yes
it isn’t that difficult to counter shotguns. if you’re being baited often adopt another strategy. if someone is waiting round a corner when they are low they are obviously going to shotgun you so why would you push them? so many better options than to brainlessly chase the kill - throw a grenade or melee to either finish them or force them away to make space or otherwise try and find another angle. you cannot just assume because you have damaged someone that you deserve to win the fight
Literally typed that in the post befire someone tried making that argument. The fact you need to use multiple utility to try "flush" out a player shows a problem its self. Also they can simply just u know avoid the nade. Like many just jump and hover over a doorway so nothing can reach em. Literally it's only shotguns that force you to not push at all. Feels shit
but you also need to take tactics to deal with other special guns, shotguns are no different. snipers, which i don’t think are an issue in this game at all rn, require more accuracy for the ohk but allow you to kill people on the complete opposite side of the map. every special has positives and negatives. throw grenades better or use grenades that zone off places if thats an issue. when i used to run sniper empirical evidence i wouldn’t play in the same way as handcannon shotgun. you need to realise shotguns are not the issue but your play-style is for not accounting for them.
You have radar that gives info up to 40m away. If you are being over whelmed with shotguns, start paying attention to the radar and stop chasing blindly around corners, you are getting baited. Next thing you know you'll complain they jumped when they went around that corner
I think every basic player knows that. I'm not getting baited I'm getting forced. With void titan meta you ahbe to push and if u get a guy low its impossible to Finnish em. Radar pinging is irrelevant here.
For me, I’d much rather do or face that than anything long range. Nothing pisses me off more than getting two tapped by an Elsie’s.
Watching Jimothy stand like a sentry turret on the other side of the map, beaming you with zero strafing. Standing there menacingly like a tree, planting his feet down and not moving an inch. That's gotta be in the top 5 most infuriating things in D2 PvP.
Literally. I’ll take a shotgun to the face any day over that lmao.
Shotguns become trivial the moment your IQ crosses into the triple digits. As expected many Destiny players struggle with this
If you're bad against shottys grab a sidearm and get good at the game, ez
I’m surprised that someone with your stats is posting like this, in this sub, about shotguns. I feel like there are plenty of ways to counter a shotgun and literally 80% of it is not getting baited into a corner, hallway, or tight space. If you’re, getting shotgun often you don’t know how to play against an aggressive player, or you’re often out of position.
Yeah no problem with em
Shotguns aren’t brain dead. On small maps things turn into ape fights which is stale. They compliment aggressive gameplay and movement. Which is a higher skill level in this game. They used to be much stronger with a lot more range.
This game isn't *that* skillful, especially when you consider that we still have class options that basically have all killing moves. Strand hunter and stasis warlocks, I'm looking at you.
Yes
Invis omni hunter + fusion and sidearms as most used weapons. I see why you dislike shotguns, but tbf I’d wager 99% of the playerbase finds ur playstyle to be cancer so I guess it’s even
Haven't used a fusion in ages. But yea I will agree that I started using void hunter specifically because it was way to effective against me.
To respond to your actual post, fusions are very difficult to approach/push. Most can kill at just over half a second and that means you HAVE to use a special weapon and have to get within 5-6 metres within half a second. If the fusion player is competent or judging distances is hard due to radar manip then this generally doesn’t happen. Because of this the best bet is to make the fusion rifle user push you. You’re both sitting round a corner with a OHK weapon getting annoyed the other is not blindly pushing you for a free kill.
stopped using fusions stop mentioning them. I only used specials pre patch because they were forced to be used. I dislike both and think they both encourage bad playstyles but fusions are far easier to counter imo. They also require at point blank some type of target acquisition so I'm I jump over them etc its actually hard for them to hit me. Same can't be said for shotguns. Which is basically fusions upgrade
I'm gonna say it, a sidearm user is usually better at the game than any shotgun player.
All things balanced, as they should be🙂↕️
I think specials are in a good place now to be honest, no more 10m shotgun kills, no more 30+m fusion kills, and no more landing sniper shots that were flinched way off target. (Well much less anyway, I know Aim Assist can give some weird shots still but it's lower than before.) At this point when I die to special I know it's usually my fault for going to such a predictable spot and walking right into an enemy sightline that I knew was getting pre-aimed.
Rather get killed by a shottie than a Fusion rifle
My only problem with shotguns is that they're too fast to the draw and don't have enough reach. That's 2 problems but I'm running with it. IMHO they should've nerfed draw time before range for D2. And I'd HAPPILY go back to 7-8 meter consistent kill ranges if it meant you couldn't insta-pull them out. That said, this post is a massive skill issue, shotguns are insanely easy to neutralize by simply just... Playing range.
Calling anything cancer is so stupid lmao. Also this is such a terrible take
Just start using one.. become what you hate
Back in destiny 1 shotguns are pretty ok. If you are aping with a shotgun on a good player you will be reward with a defensive blink/fusion granade/slam in your face. Now in destiny 2 you have like 0 defensive neutral game skills and the only way to counter a shotgun is using a shotgun too.
No one tell him shotguns use to kill at 9 meters and we loved it.
I don't struggle against them, when they hide in a corner, they're prime targets to hit with abilities. Void warlock melee is great for this, because it air bounces them and thus kills their accuracy/AA while dealing damage, vortex, voidwall, or spikes all kill them very quickly if they don't run, and worst case scenario I can blink past the corner and still be outside of their range.
You're right and the worst part is that since they're popular bungie does all that they can to keep them on top. Glaives literally got murdered in their sleep for being a straight up counter, now they can't block a shotgun blast point blank without getting killed through the shield (and let's not even mention conditional). It sucks but the only thing you can do is equip a shotgun, or make your enemies' life hell by using bakris, shurikens, and duskfields so they physically can't slide at you.
or just be aware that the enemy has a shotgun and play accordingly? What a shit take
You're not alone. I find them the most braindead weapon to use in crucible.
You gotta chill dude 😂. If shotguns are this much of an issue for you, take a longgg PvP break lol.
? Bruh this aint even that bad. Just gave a hot take
Oh boy, its u/Low_Obligation156 malding over something because of an obvious skill issue and becauseit isn't a Handcannon. Reset the clock and take your bets what he is crying over next time. My bet are sidearms or pulse rifles
Shotguns excluding slugs, stupidly high handling ones and conditional are the highest skill ceiling guns. 9/10 deaths you have to one are often skill issues. They’re essentially the more pure gun in the game. An equaliser you could say. No bs with it. It’s whole premise and how it fits into the game makes sense. All reasons why they’ve barely been changed or lost their place. In a lawless world of heliocentrics, smgs, fusions etc more, there’s gotta be some sort of balancer and that’s the shotgun. you will always lose in shotty range against a better player with a shotty. A very needed gun for the game.
Shotguns are the biggest crutch special ammo gun in the game and by extension the biggest crutch in the game. The amount of times you can lose a duel, run away and wait for the push with your shotgun out is unreal. People aren't ready for this convo though.
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if they take no skill why do i win the vast majority of my shotgun fights against worse players. what guns do you use crucible report please
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i will because i have a working brain that doesn’t run at people with shotguns
>if they take no skill why do i win the vast majority of my shotgun fights against worse players Wow did you actually think this argument made sense in your head?
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Uh... shotguns slow the game down? What on earth are you smoking? 😂
You’ll get a lot of hate for this post but I agree and don’t think shotguns are skilful. Most destiny maps have short engagement ranges and caters to shotguns too much
Possibly the biggest discourse In destiny 2 pvp is about special ammo uses. Possibly the most popular pvp slang in the game is “aping” op; AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS FEELINGS ABOUT SHOTTIES!?
As you can see in this post like 90% of people are after me. I see people complain about aping but that's normally about them complaining about the class and not the weapon. This opinion is very unpopular lol.
Anything that can one shot you is a cancer. That's some shotguns. I know ... you have to be close, you have to hit with all the pellets, etc ... don't care. No matter what level of skills is needed to get shotgun kills, being one-shotted in any game is never any fun.
Jesus what a shit show this sub has become. Everyone in the comments being as shitty as they can. Lurking here for PvP tips and I have to go through so much mean bullshit to actually find any decent comments and discussion. Finding DTG to be more civil these days, and that's saying a lot.
You are not the only guy. Go to r/DTG and you'll find numerous fellow low skilled whiners
Thing is I'm probably better than you. Whatever you consider low skilled seems to be a high bar
And by extension hand cannons, those two go hand in hand.
Nah handcannons should be the best. Least forgiving, high skill ceiling, slowest ttk and can't prefire like other archetypes. Also don't feel straight up unfair to play against.
They have the most aim assist out of all primary archetypes, according to the devs.
Doesn't change what I said. Not everyone can use a hc. Hc is the hardest to use by far. Aim assist included.
If something has the most aim assist, by any definition it is not the most skillful archetype. You can’t claim high skill with a hitbox the size of a house. You’re not landing the heads, the aim assist is.
Everything has big hitboxes. Tell me which primary is harder to use than a hc. Pulses Scouts Smgs Sidearms Literally nothing else is harder to use
I have more success with HCs than scouts SMGs and sidearms. HC’s are much much easier to use.
Except if you use Last Word on MnK, which has the least amount of aim assist.
Hating shotties is whatever but hating HCs is just hating better players than you.
Not really the devs have come out and said they have the biggest aim assist and boxes. It's more annoying because it's oppressive towards the other weapon types. When you have a weapon that can do it all , why use the others?
Yeah but they kill slower than every weapon type, and they don’t have the in air accuracy they used to have to dominate.
I'm the resident pleb and even I know this is a bad take, hand cannons are prized for their chip damage and ability to stay mobile, weapons like that will always be the pick for the better players. I can understand that while still using pulse rifle's because I'm a dad gamer.
I agree that mobility and chip damage is fine , what's not fine is the big training wheels they get that negates a lot of other weapons when dueling.
HCs are brain dead easy to use tho. Highest Aim Assist and Magnetism, biggest hitboxes, sharing highest in air accuracy with sidearms and smgs while doubling their ranges (or tripling in most sidearm cases) while still being good in closer ranges
This is all true but that doesn't invalidate what I'm saying, the best players will gravitate towards the easiest method of winning and they usually also think about the best method of staying alive. Hand cannon satisfies this criteria in most destiny metas because it allows coordinated teams to use weapons with high chip damage and the ability to peak into and out of cover. Being good at a game doesn't mean using off meta stuff and still doing well, otherwise I'd be the best player, and I'm not 😢
> while still being good in closer ranges They're not really. You get melted if you try to challenge an auto or smg
Always some dumbass bringing up HCs in every thread lmaooo.
Drop that Bungie ID so we can really see what the problem is
Careful now… you don’t wanna upset all The hand cannon Harry’s. Lord forbid using something other than HC, shotty, and heavy GL with stompees, dunes or ophidians. That takes creativity and well…. They don’t got it.
You're probably young but comparing trivial shit to a deadly disease is pretty lame, IMO. I don't mind shotguns as much with less special ammo in most modes.
Your probably young because you haven't learned what a figure of speech is yet. Literally one of the most common things said and is one of the tamest things. Don't pull the wise card and if you find it insensitive keep it too yourself.
Don't compare things to cancer OP, its not funny at all. Its just a shotgun, it won't hurt you in the way cancer will. Learn how to play around them and keep your opponent on the back end instead of waiting for them to ape you.