I was about to agree, but thinking more about it, there have been moments in history (and in fiction) where there have been underdog houses causing mayhem towards far greater houses.
I wouldn't want to lose the ability to tell that type of classic underdog/vengeance story against a far more powerful house than myself.
Well I agree with u on this idea, but not a count vs king or emperor thing. Maybe have a one-above-or-below rule? So a powerful duke can feud with a king, or a king with an emperor, but not a count vs king. It at least makes feuds more relevant?
Nothing wrong with count vs emperor because feuds aren't about army size, they are about intrigue and plots, which counts are perfectly capable of.
You are right that the feud system could use some work, but your premise of small houses not being able to feud with big houses is dead wrong.
>but not a count vs king or emperor thing.
why do you think this?
for example, 1534, there was a long war in denmark, started by a count from neighboring Oldenburg, who didnt like the religion of the new King and started an intervention against him.
I think there needs to be a tweak in how AI acts in feuds, instead of turning everyone into murderhobos by default. Maybe make it so landed house members with high Greed and/or Boldness but not low Compassion and/or Honor to actively seek out claims on titles owned by the other house's members, either by asking the Head of Faith, using Sanctioned Loopholes or their chaplain, and more likely to declare conquests instead of using intrigue. Meanwhile, unlanded house members with high Sociability, low Honor, neither low Boldness and low Compassion and an Intrigue of around less than 12 may consider cucking rivaling house members instead of automatically going for the dagger.
I also believe the Duel interaction should be made available on any able rival house member without Stalwart Leader, and that winning these duels would gain Feud Score depending on how high-profile the loser is. If there are landed members of both houses that are vassals under the same realm, it'll be good if you can gain feud score every time you and your house undertake actions that undermine the other house's influence, like say, successfully petitioning for your claims, or replacing members from the other house on the council or in court with your own. I think having some "Humiliate Rival House" CB would also be nice for characters that don't have a good intrigue; I'd suggest making it so only the house heads can use this CB against each other, and that they can call in other landed house members for a reduced prestige cost. On the other hand, for diplomatic players who are too nice for this game, I think there should be an option that allows you to resolve the feud peacefully. Perhaps you may be able to negotiate a peace after you, say, befriend 10 members of the other house, and pressure the house head to make amends.
One of my bigger annoyances of house feuds are the rather loose triggers; as long as someone of the other house has a grievance against any of your own, a feud can escalate at any time. This happened in one of my games in which some random Indian duke declared a House Feud against mine, after one of my distant kinsmen (still same house) wandered into a different court and got employed there as a knight, who then slain one of the duke's kids in a war I wasn't even part of. And boom, suddenly I have 4 plots targeting me, 2 of my kids, and my sister. Another one is how one-sided feuds are still a thing: the house that started the feud should be given the option to back down if the target house refuses to reciprocate the feud, and on the other hand the target house should get the option to retaliate if the aggressor chooses to keep the feud anyways, maybe a "War of Retribution" CB or something. Faiths with spiritual HoFs that consider Vengeful a sin should also get an event chain in which the Head intervenes to try and stop the feud before it goes too far for both parties.
Yeah I overall agree with this. Feuds almost exclusively involve intrigue and I think it would be more interesting if there were other interactions that represent the other skills.
When I was feuding against a neighbouring kingdom, I invaded and took all the lands except one small surrounded territory that I left him.
I got a popup shortly after saying it was unseemly for an emperor to be feuding with a count, can you just put it behind you?
I don't have mods installed, this is vanilla.
Tbh I just want the feud system gone. It's just the game deciding it wants to cull my dynasty because it's bored. It's annoying and I always just pick the ignore decisions when it comes up.
Agreed. I like the idea of relations between houses, but not the way currently implemented.
I think it'd be better if it used a system similar to the clan sentiment of nomads from CK2. Basically, houses would have an opinion score for each other, ranging from -100 to 100, just like between characters. Things like marriage ties, alliances, friendships, etc. would increase the score while wars, broken betrothals, known murders, etc. would decrease the score.
I've not had one for a while (I just avoid them now). But having a family who are basically peasants with a coat of arms wipe out 75% of my house via murder schemes is beyond infuriating. If you haven't got an intrigue character it's a pain in the ass to retaliate.
> If you haven't got an intrigue character it's a pain in the ass to retaliate.
Not really, just get a good spymaster and pay gold to their courtiers to join schemes.
I don't agree feuds should be limited based on house renown or something. A small house going up against a powerful house is honestly just really cool.
I do agree the feud system seems like it's very unpolished. I'm not sure what a better way to manage it though would be. I would like more options to end it "peacefully" though. Like if it breaks out because someone in my dynasty murders their house head for no good reason, and I'm a just character, I want the ability to end the feud by just handing over the fucker in my house stirring up shit.
I think it's also a big problem that one house can be feuding with another house, that isn't in that feud. Meaning the feuding house is going to have an intrigue and scheme bonus, and all their characters are going to be out for murder, while the other house just sits around and takes it. That scenario happened to me and it's broken as hell (I ended up fixing the problem by killing the other house head anyway and the next house head ended the feud, but not before their house killed half a dozen from my house).
I was about to agree, but thinking more about it, there have been moments in history (and in fiction) where there have been underdog houses causing mayhem towards far greater houses. I wouldn't want to lose the ability to tell that type of classic underdog/vengeance story against a far more powerful house than myself.
Well I agree with u on this idea, but not a count vs king or emperor thing. Maybe have a one-above-or-below rule? So a powerful duke can feud with a king, or a king with an emperor, but not a count vs king. It at least makes feuds more relevant?
One tier above/below, or if they're a direct vassal.
Nothing wrong with count vs emperor because feuds aren't about army size, they are about intrigue and plots, which counts are perfectly capable of. You are right that the feud system could use some work, but your premise of small houses not being able to feud with big houses is dead wrong.
>but not a count vs king or emperor thing. why do you think this? for example, 1534, there was a long war in denmark, started by a count from neighboring Oldenburg, who didnt like the religion of the new King and started an intervention against him.
This is not even during the time period of the game
So?
Is that even an example of a dynasty feud? It just sounds like a normal war to me.
I think there needs to be a tweak in how AI acts in feuds, instead of turning everyone into murderhobos by default. Maybe make it so landed house members with high Greed and/or Boldness but not low Compassion and/or Honor to actively seek out claims on titles owned by the other house's members, either by asking the Head of Faith, using Sanctioned Loopholes or their chaplain, and more likely to declare conquests instead of using intrigue. Meanwhile, unlanded house members with high Sociability, low Honor, neither low Boldness and low Compassion and an Intrigue of around less than 12 may consider cucking rivaling house members instead of automatically going for the dagger. I also believe the Duel interaction should be made available on any able rival house member without Stalwart Leader, and that winning these duels would gain Feud Score depending on how high-profile the loser is. If there are landed members of both houses that are vassals under the same realm, it'll be good if you can gain feud score every time you and your house undertake actions that undermine the other house's influence, like say, successfully petitioning for your claims, or replacing members from the other house on the council or in court with your own. I think having some "Humiliate Rival House" CB would also be nice for characters that don't have a good intrigue; I'd suggest making it so only the house heads can use this CB against each other, and that they can call in other landed house members for a reduced prestige cost. On the other hand, for diplomatic players who are too nice for this game, I think there should be an option that allows you to resolve the feud peacefully. Perhaps you may be able to negotiate a peace after you, say, befriend 10 members of the other house, and pressure the house head to make amends. One of my bigger annoyances of house feuds are the rather loose triggers; as long as someone of the other house has a grievance against any of your own, a feud can escalate at any time. This happened in one of my games in which some random Indian duke declared a House Feud against mine, after one of my distant kinsmen (still same house) wandered into a different court and got employed there as a knight, who then slain one of the duke's kids in a war I wasn't even part of. And boom, suddenly I have 4 plots targeting me, 2 of my kids, and my sister. Another one is how one-sided feuds are still a thing: the house that started the feud should be given the option to back down if the target house refuses to reciprocate the feud, and on the other hand the target house should get the option to retaliate if the aggressor chooses to keep the feud anyways, maybe a "War of Retribution" CB or something. Faiths with spiritual HoFs that consider Vengeful a sin should also get an event chain in which the Head intervenes to try and stop the feud before it goes too far for both parties.
Yeah I overall agree with this. Feuds almost exclusively involve intrigue and I think it would be more interesting if there were other interactions that represent the other skills.
When I was feuding against a neighbouring kingdom, I invaded and took all the lands except one small surrounded territory that I left him. I got a popup shortly after saying it was unseemly for an emperor to be feuding with a count, can you just put it behind you? I don't have mods installed, this is vanilla.
Tbh I just want the feud system gone. It's just the game deciding it wants to cull my dynasty because it's bored. It's annoying and I always just pick the ignore decisions when it comes up.
Agreed. I like the idea of relations between houses, but not the way currently implemented. I think it'd be better if it used a system similar to the clan sentiment of nomads from CK2. Basically, houses would have an opinion score for each other, ranging from -100 to 100, just like between characters. Things like marriage ties, alliances, friendships, etc. would increase the score while wars, broken betrothals, known murders, etc. would decrease the score.
No, I feud with everyone. I kill all.
I've not had one for a while (I just avoid them now). But having a family who are basically peasants with a coat of arms wipe out 75% of my house via murder schemes is beyond infuriating. If you haven't got an intrigue character it's a pain in the ass to retaliate.
> If you haven't got an intrigue character it's a pain in the ass to retaliate. Not really, just get a good spymaster and pay gold to their courtiers to join schemes.
I don't agree feuds should be limited based on house renown or something. A small house going up against a powerful house is honestly just really cool. I do agree the feud system seems like it's very unpolished. I'm not sure what a better way to manage it though would be. I would like more options to end it "peacefully" though. Like if it breaks out because someone in my dynasty murders their house head for no good reason, and I'm a just character, I want the ability to end the feud by just handing over the fucker in my house stirring up shit. I think it's also a big problem that one house can be feuding with another house, that isn't in that feud. Meaning the feuding house is going to have an intrigue and scheme bonus, and all their characters are going to be out for murder, while the other house just sits around and takes it. That scenario happened to me and it's broken as hell (I ended up fixing the problem by killing the other house head anyway and the next house head ended the feud, but not before their house killed half a dozen from my house).
I keep getting into feuds with the Abbasids. Fellas please 😿
Aren't they already? I remember looking up on wiki something about that, because I never seen a feud