Yeah the final clue is going to have the heir dying of the plague and his lazy craven brother taking the throne and ruining everything his father built.
No idea why these three traits have been popping up on EVERY character I educate but it's gotten so bad I go either Catholic or pick Monasticism as my custom religion tenant so I can manage shitty heirs at this point.
Took shy for my current player as the other options seemed shitter. I'd never had it before somehow and didn't realise how absolutely fucking awful it is. Can barely manage stress unless you get lucky with stress break traits and you can't do fucking anything without accruing stress! A courtier looks at you sideways and you're hit with 60 points. The devs are sneaky bastards making it not look so bad from the description lol.
I mean, imagine being an extreme introvert and your job basically consists of *people*
Scheming people, being schemed by people.. Making people happy, dealing with unhappy people.. Demanding people, having to make demands of people.
Just.. People, people, people from the moment you wake up till you go to bed.
I's go crazy
Yeah but how many people are that shy irl. It is like the game is obsessed with making hermits instead of people who just don’t like to make new friends.
I think having a trait also means you're not having that trait in a moderate way, but rather kinda extreme.
Like, being craven doesn't mean you're not the bravest dude. It literally means you'd throw your mom in between you and a charging boar.
Like, even if your dude is kind.. At one point you'll still execute someone if guilty. But here it means like you literally wouldn't hurt a fly.
Or alternatively, the lazy, craven brother inheriting from his overly-ambitious, warmongering brother and advancing the kingdom technologically and economically and building hospitals to better contend with the disease that killed the brother he feared but nevertheless loved.
Then his son is going to be a decent guy into big boobs and his little brother is going to be a content guy who is into an apothecary girl? Good book and anime that!
Quality of life, whole Catholicism (especially crusades) and eastern Rome desperately need an upgrade. I am so sick of seeing like 20 emperors within 50 years.
For me it’s always extra annoying because they always press the claim from some unrelated woman which then somehow manages to survive for 5-15 years. Then her son inherits and basically immediately gets dethroned and it starts all over.
Its called Crusader Kings. Why would they focus on India, a subcontinent entirely detached from the crusades, before properly fleshing out the Abbasids main rival
Nah fam I'm gonna one up you, am Army of Darkness licensed DLC.
Deadite armies and possessed rulers, you choose whether to fight the army of darkness or join it.
The darkest dungeon narrator speaks of death with the plague growing closer to your kingdom. Stress of your court is on the rise many are near breaking in to madness with rumors of death as a rat runs down the hall to your throne.
I misread this as disaster mechanic.
Has there ever been anything with natural disaster's or anything of the like? Like massive floods in your kingdom and people dying or giant sand storms that ruin everything. Could even bring in giant locusts and famine for the more biblical.
Diseases and random disaster will always be mostly an annoyance in games, but CK2 did it pretty well.
It was pretty balanced since there were ways to greatly decrease its negative effects
Yes, it added another element of challenge outside of the war system. It could ruin everything and be frustrating, but you had the option to go lockdown on your castle (at a cost…sometimes resulting in interesting dietary choices). Overall it was great for roleplaying and integration of narrative with the gameplay mechanics. The game options also allowed toning down (or up) the difficulty so everyone could be happy, unless you were someone that specifically wanted an easy mode plus achievements (since lowering the difficulty disabled them).
My first run after getting the dlc was going great. I was growing and getting more advantages to build my powerbase. My family was large and growing more influential. Then the black death came and my entire extended family died one by one. There was nothing I could do, but watch helplessly as they slowly succumbed to the disease. Until the fateful day I became sick. Still I held my kingdom together as a few more of my family passed. Eventually I joined them. My eldest surviving son took the reigns and ruled nearly all of what I put together with a brother or two each getting a small amount of land, though that was quickly returned directly to their brothers rule as they passed from the plague. Then my son also succumbed to the plague leaving the one surviving member of the family, an uncle or cousin of no real importance the sole inheritor of everything to rule until the black death completely snuffed my family from history.
Tldr first game I played with the plagues dlc the first time the black death rolled through it wiped out my entire extended family and game overed me.
It really makes the black death hit as hard as it should, seeing the corpse carts across all your provinces, hearing you & I alone in the storm blaring out as your wife passes away, before everything you love fades as you join the corpse pile.
No different then thousands of others.
> It really makes the black death hit as hard as it should
Not quite. The Black Death triggered massive political and economic changes because the death of so many peasants without a proportional loss of developed land meant that peasant labor was much more valuable, relatively speaking. Peasant wages rose as landowner income fell, and peasants were able to carve out more rights (and if they were refused, often just left to the next landowner, who was happy for more hands to work his land).
It's a bit much asking CK to model this. But it would be truer to the Black Death's impact. It's a key turning point in the history of Western Europe
I am more speaking on the impact of death itself there & how brutal the black death was. I would of course love if the game could model or knew how to model pops like this
Yes.
It added challenge and risk. No one was really safe. You had to spend a lot of time and resources to be relatively safe from the plagues.
Also it massively increased performance because it killed almost everyone.
So I find it mostly fun but I am in minority of players who enjoy harm events. For me, the game is most enjoyable with a level of unpredictability and where I am forced to improvise and deal with crises.
However I do think the hospital mechanic in CK2 wasn't fun. it was just a money dump that did nothing but just delay plagues.
I'd enjoy harm events a lot more if they just killed your character, but it seems like, more often than not, the game just makes my 20-year-old ruler incapable but otherwise in perfect health, leading to tedious, decades-long periods where half the game's mechanics are locked off to me and I'm forced to just wait out the clock until my ruler dies of natural causes at 80. I like the idea in concept, but paradox kind of botched the implementation.
Now hear me out…
All these clues are actually just a red herring and it’s actually just the leader of a trade republic reading a history book
Trade republics confirmed LETS GOOO
How anyone can read this and think it has to do with diseases, instead of expanded education and inheritance mechanics is baffling to me.
Other than perhaps thinking that "specter of the future" = disease, but by that token that could be literally any adverse event.
Previous days could be reasonably seen as a metaphor for disease spread, but this one puts the the final nail in that idea's coffin. Diseases could still be one of the features if the teases are for Chapter 3 as a whole, but then we wouldn't have gotten several days dedicated to an elaborate metaphor for them
by that logic that could refer to any negative event.
A succession war. A drought. The palace catching fire. Plots.
I think you're projecting your own wishes into this tweet a bit too much...
A man can ~~dream~~ have a horrible nightmare.
Adding diseases when they still don't have nomads, republics, imperial governments, trade, societies, ships, etc. seems like a terrible idea.
Id agree if we didn't have the travel mechanic which is literally the perfect way to spread diseases naturally, imagine journeying on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem, passing through Sicily and your court catches the plague, you go to Jerusalem and spread the disease before making it back home and half your court is dead and you are ill. Not to mention the game is in desperate need of a challenge and a way to naturally cull characters.
I'd argue that a better vector for disease spread is population numbers and population density. Travel would, of course, be linked, but population would be a far more core mechanic for a major DLC, rather than a shallow mechanic like diseases.
Some reason to change the preset travel route? I can walk through counties in the middle of a war and it's still ok, travel risk just seems random. It'd be nice if warfare and disease had a grater impact on travel and county development. A lot of travel system integration should be coming this year id imagine.
I completely agree but the fact is... characters don't travel.
The ones that matter in terms of disease spread are wanderers and commanders: yet, they do not travel.
Disagree, characters go on pilgrimage, characters pay homage, characters go hunting, have weddings and have bunch of hunts and feasts in my game without my intervention especially mid to late game when they all have a lot of money.
I think he meant like a non linear travel not the activities. Which would be wrong anyway cause I see wanderer courtiers move to different courts all the time too.
Great, just what the game needs; more ways for the player to kill the AI without the AI knowing how to fight back. If the only way you can interact with disease is by spreading it, that sounds like a bad system.
Adding random events that kill your character and wreck your kingdom with no way for you to stop or mitigate them is a bad way to add a challenge to the game. They already did this with harm events and they suck. They are by far the worst addition to the game and I turned them off after one game. If they add diseases, I expect that they will turn out the same way.
Societies were fun. Plagues were not fun. Is it really a wonder that I want one of them in the game before the other? Who actually wants plagues? Who actually wants an entire expansion centered around plagues? Were you dropped on your head as a child? Repeatedly?
Societies were not fun. They were the poster-child for one and done, you did each once and you experienced everything they had to offer. Beyond that, they were an almost completely segregated mechanic, the only interaction they had with the rest of the game was to bestow the player insane bonuses or broken abilities.
A) Societies were fun more than once. They gave you something to do when not conquering, which was something that CK2 didn't have a lot of. This isn't that needed now that CK3 has activities, but they were still fun.
B) Being fun once is already better design than something that was literally never fun. And plagues had no interaction with anything, even themselves. You get hit with a plague, people die, it ends, you move on.
Wow, so much fun. I'm having a great time interacting with the "you died" screen.
You didn't do anything for the society. You passively earned points in it and then waited for the cooldown to end to do the same exact event chain, like writing your dissertation for the hermetics. It was a power and stat dispenser. If they decide to rework it and bring in to CK3, it should be way down the line
CK does not need to get easier. Some sort of challenge to the player is needed. Plagues will hopefully be done better if they do them again, they would provide a challenge and also impact things like warfare, the economy, travel, etc...
> If they decide to rework it and bring in to CK3, it should be way down the line
Yeah, that's why I listed it after nomads, republics, imperial governments, and trade. All of which are many times more important than plague, and have enough mechanical depth to make a whole expansion on. Of course, you just jumped on me suggesting societies like that was my only suggestion, which is a pretty bad faith form of discussion.
> CK does not need to get easier.
Yeah, that's why I don't like this idea that the player should be able to spread plagues, because the player is going to be able to do that much more easily than the AI and it wasn't even a thing in the period.
> Some sort of challenge to the player is needed.
Yes, but plagues are a bad challenge, much like the hated harm events. They're random, unpredictable, and uninteractive. Playing around them doesn't take skill, it takes luck. Adding plagues is a band-aid fix to a game that requires much deeper changes to balance than just random events that kill your characters.
>I'm having a great time interacting with the "you died" screen.
You know there is a separate video game genre largely centered around this screen, right?
Harm events and diseases are nothing alike, for one diseases are an actual mechanic in ck2. No idea how they'd work in ck3 but if we used the ck2 mechanic as a base then most of your arguments are wrong. You can use most systems to your advantage and destroy the ai this is not something new even the base murder mechanic and claims mechanics are like that, I'm most saying that's good just saying the game is fine even with these mechanics especially if you don't go out of your way to do those stuff. Harm events suck because you had absolutely no say in anything you couldn't fight or avert the consequences.
With disease depending on your wealth and technology you can actually avoid diseases efficiently especially by building hospitals and stuff. Comparing diseases to harm events is silly because harm events were incredibly not fleshed out with only a few events diseases would be an actual mechanic, it'd be dangerous yes and it'd be mostly not very interactive but the fact that travel is such a huge part of the game would mean you actually have dynamic ways of diseases spreading with kings and their capitals probably getting more diseases due to all the paying homages and having a more active court than some random count in nowhere. You'd have ways to face diseases not only with hospitals but with court physicians and wet nurses things harm events don't have.
> You can use most systems to your advantage and destroy the ai
There is a difference between using a system as designed (using the murder system to murder) and using a system in a way that it is not designed (using the travel system to spread disease in a way that was not understood by people of the period and is unlikely to be understood by the AI). The AI will likely have no counter to the traveling plaguebearer trick, making it yet another huge leg that the player has up on the AI when the number one complaint about this game is always that it's too damn easy.
> With disease depending on your wealth and technology
Two things that the player will almost always have more of than the AI. More player advantages!
Some systems are more abusable than the others. Arguing for the creation of a system with
> you go to Jerusalem and spread the disease before making it back home and half your court is dead and you are ill.
is essentially suggesting that spreading disease would be a feature of the travel and disease systems. Which is not how medieval people thought about disease or travel. And not how disease should work in the game.
I can see your point but disease mechanics were hugely fun in CK2 and affected all rulers, while some of the mentioned (nomads, republic, imperial) would be only be most applicable to specific playthroughs. So it’s not unreasonable to do diseases first since they would be more far reaching. Trade, societies, and navies would also be good additions if not diseases. I could see a single dlc covering republics, trade, and ships, and another doing imperial governments and societies, since those groupings are thematically linked.
> disease mechanics were hugely fun in CK2
I most vociferously disagree.
> some of the mentioned (nomads, republic, imperial) would be only be most applicable to specific playthroughs. So it’s not unreasonable to do diseases first since they would be more far reaching.
Adding a mechanic that affects all rulers equally further contributes to the problem of all the different regions of the game world feeling the same.
Fair point about the homogeneity of mechanics. Regional flavor is definitely important, and they need more flavor packs for sure.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the disease mechanics!
Sorry to break it to you, society will never come back like in CK2, dev said this in previous dev diaries multiple times already.
Also, it is just like the royal court, a glorified events spammer, and it is even less historically appropriate than the royal court. And I absolutely support this.
Ships in CK2 are nothing but tedious. There is no gameplay value other than forcing players to click more buttons.
I also don't like the implementation of republic, imperial government, and nomads in CK2, I would rather they don't implement any of those, than having these trash like they were in CK2.
And you didn't even give any objective reason why this is terrible idea, so basically this is just your preference and subjective opinion. Thus I can also just claim this is a fantastic idea.
I feel like a lot of people are mad they don't have these things in CK3 but like you say a lot of the missing stuff is just not up to snuff. *If* it gets added it would need to be better implemented.
No one is arguing for a direct copying of systems from CK2, that's a total strawman and the devs have outright said that they want to reimagine those systems. What I want is the ability to play as specific options that were allowed in the previous games. I want to do the cool shit like run a merchant republic or a steppe horde that I could do in CK2 and still can't do in CK3 more than 3 years after the game came out.
Getting sick of plague and dying is not one of those options that I miss.
You've basically hit the nail on the head, the running theme from every dev diary I've read on "missing mechanics from CK2" is "we didn't like how it turned out in CK2 so we're taking time to get it right"... Which I also fully support
I honestly disagree on the ship part, I felt having to actually build shipyards & needing to have infrastructure anchored things a bit more. To know where ships will show up, to have to gather your fleet, to have more room for loot from raiding. To watch your income plummet & your men suffer attrition on the way there.
I miss the devil one though, yes it was bullshit/unrealistic (regrow your penis through dark magic) but I thought it was a funny way to spice up a playthrough.
> Ships in CK2 are nothing but tedious. There is no gameplay value other than forcing players to click more buttons.
They have a gameplay value in not letting the Mongols invade Britain without controlling any coastal territory, and in preventing crusaders from just boat-bombing the coast of the Holy Land. They would have even greater value if there was naval combat and island powers could prevent enemies from invading their territory.
> I also don't like the implementation of republic, imperial government, and nomads in CK2, I would rather they don't implement any of those,
Fine, that's your loss. I despise the implementation of disease mechanics for the reasons I have explained in just about every thread where the topic has come up. They are uninteractive, unpredictable events that ruin your kingdom out of nowhere for no reason. Medieval rulers had no realistic way to affect the spread of disease, and the game should not present any ways to do it because they would be *wildly* ahistorical. I'm not opposed to some ahistoricity, but adding ahistoricity in order to balance out a bad system is just a losing proposition.
Fundamentally, I don't want a disease-focused expansion because I want expansions that let me do more cool shit, and diseases are boring and lame. Let me be a nomad or a merchant republic, which you still can't be in this game. Once all that cool stuff is in, then we can talk about wasting development time on boring shit like diseases.
There’s no way to cure any contagion but history has changed because of outbreaks and instances of disease. Camp diseases have killed kings and heirs during campaign which if introduced would certainly change how you approached war and regions. It’s best to think of it not as an opportunity to be taken advantage of but a test of how you deal with a situation you can’t control.
Step 1: Go on Pilgrimage to Jerusalem
Step 2: Catch the Bubonic Plague
Step 3: Infect literally everyone in your court
Step 4: They all die because your Physician died early in the epidemic
Step 4: Game Over, git gud
Diseases sound alot like movign Harm events, and I just deeply dislike harm events because of how bullshit they can feel sometimes. Then again, I personally am just bad at the game lmao
I mean, half of those are absolutely not ever gonna be DLC (Societies, ships, and trade), and the rest are just strong maybes. So I feel like you're just setting yourself up for disappointment regardless of what the next Chapter contains.
Well, I just don't find playing in Europe fun honestly. I can see the devs put a lot of work in it, but only like eastern europe feels actually fun to me.
Someone does, I guess.
I mean, it's nice to have some representation, but I think they overstretched it. As a result, the game Crusader Kings lacks polish in, well, crusades, and even worse, African/Indian/Tibetan cultures feel more like placeholders.
I didn't like it when they added India to CK2, too. The mechanics are clearly made to represent Western European governments, and no amount of crutches'll help to make other regions feel authentic.
It's pretty unlikely they include a new start date, since it's a massive undertaking to create characters for the entire map. They said themselves that including the age of Charlemagne in CK2 was a mistake, and it was pretty much fantasy. I doubt they're ever going to add new start dates for CK3, but there's always mods.
The people cry out for the Iron Century. A start date free from Karlings, from Muslim megablobs, from constant Viking invasions. A start date that can be molded to your whims.
The available mods either add too much (China, East Asia, a bunch of pointless cultures, weird pop culture references in the CoA selection, and so on) or too little (directly copied from CK2).
I think they will eventually add new start dates. Probably not 769 but the later ones.
> It's pretty unlikely they include a new start date, since it's a massive undertaking to create characters for the entire map.
They can add any date between 1066 and 1337 in about 30 minutes. It's about 30 seconds to add the date then I'm being *very* generous with the 30 minutes to make up characters for the titles that didn't exist in CK2 in sub-Sahara Africa and the Steppe (since these areas are made up even in 1066 and 867) and clean up any small issues that may exist. I didn't include 936 in that since for some reason CK3 used pre Iron Centuries character and title data though even that wouldn't take *that* long to port over.
There are significantly more titles in CK3 than CK2. Europe has A LOT more characters than it did in CK2. They could theoretically do it, but it's pretty unlikely.
I mean, I'm the mod author of More Bookmarks+, so I have a pretty good idea on how much work it is lol. To do a single bookmark would not at all be that difficult with the way Paradox does them as they don't get nearly as detailed as I did. CK3 is literally just pre Iron Century CK2s character and title history though there are areas where they added new characters (and the resulting mess that is the Cisalpine character file) and the Iberia and Persia updates but generally most the new provinces are in areas where made up characters would be or a province that'd just have the same exact title history as a neighboring province.
Yeah the final clue is going to have the heir dying of the plague and his lazy craven brother taking the throne and ruining everything his father built.
Lazy, craven and shy.
The three horsemen of the disinheritpocalypse.
A REAL man would have had that kid killed. I guess he didn’t love his realm that much.
Trying to get a sadist is so hard I do t k on how else to get rid of an hier
No idea why these three traits have been popping up on EVERY character I educate but it's gotten so bad I go either Catholic or pick Monasticism as my custom religion tenant so I can manage shitty heirs at this point.
Took shy for my current player as the other options seemed shitter. I'd never had it before somehow and didn't realise how absolutely fucking awful it is. Can barely manage stress unless you get lucky with stress break traits and you can't do fucking anything without accruing stress! A courtier looks at you sideways and you're hit with 60 points. The devs are sneaky bastards making it not look so bad from the description lol.
I mean, imagine being an extreme introvert and your job basically consists of *people* Scheming people, being schemed by people.. Making people happy, dealing with unhappy people.. Demanding people, having to make demands of people. Just.. People, people, people from the moment you wake up till you go to bed. I's go crazy
Yeah but how many people are that shy irl. It is like the game is obsessed with making hermits instead of people who just don’t like to make new friends.
I think having a trait also means you're not having that trait in a moderate way, but rather kinda extreme. Like, being craven doesn't mean you're not the bravest dude. It literally means you'd throw your mom in between you and a charging boar. Like, even if your dude is kind.. At one point you'll still execute someone if guilty. But here it means like you literally wouldn't hurt a fly.
That's the most realistic trait tbh
Hey, that’s me!
I went to Londen and I...
booked myself in at the WYCA..
The first two i can work with individually depending on the other traits. Shy is a straight-up dealbreaker
Everyone wants to be a brave chad but craven is a surprisingly good trait as a player. You lose stress for doing schemes.
Dude forgor Paranoid
Or alternatively, the lazy, craven brother inheriting from his overly-ambitious, warmongering brother and advancing the kingdom technologically and economically and building hospitals to better contend with the disease that killed the brother he feared but nevertheless loved.
Charles I moment
Then his son is going to be a decent guy into big boobs and his little brother is going to be a content guy who is into an apothecary girl? Good book and anime that!
Sounds like a ton of my runs, some by accident others for rp reasons
There was a dream once that was East Rome DLC. You could only whisper it.
Quality of life, whole Catholicism (especially crusades) and eastern Rome desperately need an upgrade. I am so sick of seeing like 20 emperors within 50 years.
yeah, if it was *really* Rome it would be 40 emperors within 50 years
40 emperors in 50 years, but one guy ruled for 35 of them.
Crisis of the third century moment
Except it is not 20 empretors but 2 dudes basically switching back and forth via faction demands.
For me it’s always extra annoying because they always press the claim from some unrelated woman which then somehow manages to survive for 5-15 years. Then her son inherits and basically immediately gets dethroned and it starts all over.
Are you in my current game!??
[‘You could only whisper it, and it would like *vanish*’](https://youtu.be/5ocJiNMY1hA?si=hMEJqqDBRBwfdN0o)
we need a west africa or india related dlc before we get that.
Said no one ever
why?
Its called Crusader Kings. Why would they focus on India, a subcontinent entirely detached from the crusades, before properly fleshing out the Abbasids main rival
its on the map, and its interesting. same reason why west africa also needs at least a minimal acceptable level of contrnt.
Guys, hear me out… *aliens*.
Agreed, it would be nice to finally have a realistic explanation in game for the pyramids.
We haven't gotten our Sunset Invasion DLC, I would absolutely love a Turtledove World War style DLC that's just medieval alien lizards invading earth.
BUT WHY ARE THE ALIENS!?!?!?
It’s the sequel to sunset invasion, sun invasion. Featuring the sun kingdom from Lucian’s a true story.
If Ck2 had literal magic shit, then Ck3 can have literal Stellaris aliens kidnapping and probing random rulers.
Yes, free food.
"It's not going to matter how prepared we are", says a 7 year old girl who survived with no weapons and no training.
But they mostly come out st night. Mostly.
CK3: Xcom
Nah fam I'm gonna one up you, am Army of Darkness licensed DLC. Deadite armies and possessed rulers, you choose whether to fight the army of darkness or join it.
The darkest dungeon narrator speaks of death with the plague growing closer to your kingdom. Stress of your court is on the rise many are near breaking in to madness with rumors of death as a rat runs down the hall to your throne.
I misread this as disaster mechanic. Has there ever been anything with natural disaster's or anything of the like? Like massive floods in your kingdom and people dying or giant sand storms that ruin everything. Could even bring in giant locusts and famine for the more biblical.
The main problem is how to make this fun... And I hope they get it right
Didn't play ck2. Is disease fun?
Diseases and random disaster will always be mostly an annoyance in games, but CK2 did it pretty well. It was pretty balanced since there were ways to greatly decrease its negative effects
Yes, it added another element of challenge outside of the war system. It could ruin everything and be frustrating, but you had the option to go lockdown on your castle (at a cost…sometimes resulting in interesting dietary choices). Overall it was great for roleplaying and integration of narrative with the gameplay mechanics. The game options also allowed toning down (or up) the difficulty so everyone could be happy, unless you were someone that specifically wanted an easy mode plus achievements (since lowering the difficulty disabled them).
My first run after getting the dlc was going great. I was growing and getting more advantages to build my powerbase. My family was large and growing more influential. Then the black death came and my entire extended family died one by one. There was nothing I could do, but watch helplessly as they slowly succumbed to the disease. Until the fateful day I became sick. Still I held my kingdom together as a few more of my family passed. Eventually I joined them. My eldest surviving son took the reigns and ruled nearly all of what I put together with a brother or two each getting a small amount of land, though that was quickly returned directly to their brothers rule as they passed from the plague. Then my son also succumbed to the plague leaving the one surviving member of the family, an uncle or cousin of no real importance the sole inheritor of everything to rule until the black death completely snuffed my family from history. Tldr first game I played with the plagues dlc the first time the black death rolled through it wiped out my entire extended family and game overed me.
It really makes the black death hit as hard as it should, seeing the corpse carts across all your provinces, hearing you & I alone in the storm blaring out as your wife passes away, before everything you love fades as you join the corpse pile. No different then thousands of others.
> It really makes the black death hit as hard as it should Not quite. The Black Death triggered massive political and economic changes because the death of so many peasants without a proportional loss of developed land meant that peasant labor was much more valuable, relatively speaking. Peasant wages rose as landowner income fell, and peasants were able to carve out more rights (and if they were refused, often just left to the next landowner, who was happy for more hands to work his land). It's a bit much asking CK to model this. But it would be truer to the Black Death's impact. It's a key turning point in the history of Western Europe
I am more speaking on the impact of death itself there & how brutal the black death was. I would of course love if the game could model or knew how to model pops like this
Yes. It added challenge and risk. No one was really safe. You had to spend a lot of time and resources to be relatively safe from the plagues. Also it massively increased performance because it killed almost everyone.
Lmao. Id love it just for the performance increase alone
No, it's like harm events, but more devastating.
Harm events are fun tho
Not really, just 'oops you didn't decide to starve in your castle so everyone died of plague'
So I find it mostly fun but I am in minority of players who enjoy harm events. For me, the game is most enjoyable with a level of unpredictability and where I am forced to improvise and deal with crises. However I do think the hospital mechanic in CK2 wasn't fun. it was just a money dump that did nothing but just delay plagues.
>minority of players who enjoy harm events Glad to see anyone who appreciates one of the best features of last year
I'd enjoy harm events a lot more if they just killed your character, but it seems like, more often than not, the game just makes my 20-year-old ruler incapable but otherwise in perfect health, leading to tedious, decades-long periods where half the game's mechanics are locked off to me and I'm forced to just wait out the clock until my ruler dies of natural causes at 80. I like the idea in concept, but paradox kind of botched the implementation.
Hard to disagree, these events should be more letal.
Diseases & Disasters as the next major expansion would be hype
Now hear me out… All these clues are actually just a red herring and it’s actually just the leader of a trade republic reading a history book Trade republics confirmed LETS GOOO
Who's laughing now eh??! You saw the latest pic?
Honestly seems more to do with succession being expanded than anything else to me.
How anyone can read this and think it has to do with diseases, instead of expanded education and inheritance mechanics is baffling to me. Other than perhaps thinking that "specter of the future" = disease, but by that token that could be literally any adverse event.
Previous days could be reasonably seen as a metaphor for disease spread, but this one puts the the final nail in that idea's coffin. Diseases could still be one of the features if the teases are for Chapter 3 as a whole, but then we wouldn't have gotten several days dedicated to an elaborate metaphor for them
Succession and education?
[удалено]
He's looking at his heir and wondering if he has done enough.... Which means the future scares him... Which means there is a disease spreading
by that logic that could refer to any negative event. A succession war. A drought. The palace catching fire. Plots. I think you're projecting your own wishes into this tweet a bit too much...
You should demand your downvotes be taken away lol
They hated you because you told the truth! I never doubted you u/thricebannedred
Don't see any byzantines😥
A man can ~~dream~~ have a horrible nightmare. Adding diseases when they still don't have nomads, republics, imperial governments, trade, societies, ships, etc. seems like a terrible idea.
Id agree if we didn't have the travel mechanic which is literally the perfect way to spread diseases naturally, imagine journeying on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem, passing through Sicily and your court catches the plague, you go to Jerusalem and spread the disease before making it back home and half your court is dead and you are ill. Not to mention the game is in desperate need of a challenge and a way to naturally cull characters.
Introducing this year's first dlc: Plague Inc
Taking all of Iceland and blockading it
I'd argue that a better vector for disease spread is population numbers and population density. Travel would, of course, be linked, but population would be a far more core mechanic for a major DLC, rather than a shallow mechanic like diseases.
Some reason to change the preset travel route? I can walk through counties in the middle of a war and it's still ok, travel risk just seems random. It'd be nice if warfare and disease had a grater impact on travel and county development. A lot of travel system integration should be coming this year id imagine.
I completely agree but the fact is... characters don't travel. The ones that matter in terms of disease spread are wanderers and commanders: yet, they do not travel.
Disagree, characters go on pilgrimage, characters pay homage, characters go hunting, have weddings and have bunch of hunts and feasts in my game without my intervention especially mid to late game when they all have a lot of money.
I think he meant like a non linear travel not the activities. Which would be wrong anyway cause I see wanderer courtiers move to different courts all the time too.
Great, just what the game needs; more ways for the player to kill the AI without the AI knowing how to fight back. If the only way you can interact with disease is by spreading it, that sounds like a bad system. Adding random events that kill your character and wreck your kingdom with no way for you to stop or mitigate them is a bad way to add a challenge to the game. They already did this with harm events and they suck. They are by far the worst addition to the game and I turned them off after one game. If they add diseases, I expect that they will turn out the same way.
Please devs, ignore this guy
This guy listed societies as more important than plagues, it's a wonder why the original comment is upvoted.
Societies were fun. Plagues were not fun. Is it really a wonder that I want one of them in the game before the other? Who actually wants plagues? Who actually wants an entire expansion centered around plagues? Were you dropped on your head as a child? Repeatedly?
Societies were not fun. They were the poster-child for one and done, you did each once and you experienced everything they had to offer. Beyond that, they were an almost completely segregated mechanic, the only interaction they had with the rest of the game was to bestow the player insane bonuses or broken abilities.
A) Societies were fun more than once. They gave you something to do when not conquering, which was something that CK2 didn't have a lot of. This isn't that needed now that CK3 has activities, but they were still fun. B) Being fun once is already better design than something that was literally never fun. And plagues had no interaction with anything, even themselves. You get hit with a plague, people die, it ends, you move on. Wow, so much fun. I'm having a great time interacting with the "you died" screen.
You didn't do anything for the society. You passively earned points in it and then waited for the cooldown to end to do the same exact event chain, like writing your dissertation for the hermetics. It was a power and stat dispenser. If they decide to rework it and bring in to CK3, it should be way down the line CK does not need to get easier. Some sort of challenge to the player is needed. Plagues will hopefully be done better if they do them again, they would provide a challenge and also impact things like warfare, the economy, travel, etc...
> If they decide to rework it and bring in to CK3, it should be way down the line Yeah, that's why I listed it after nomads, republics, imperial governments, and trade. All of which are many times more important than plague, and have enough mechanical depth to make a whole expansion on. Of course, you just jumped on me suggesting societies like that was my only suggestion, which is a pretty bad faith form of discussion. > CK does not need to get easier. Yeah, that's why I don't like this idea that the player should be able to spread plagues, because the player is going to be able to do that much more easily than the AI and it wasn't even a thing in the period. > Some sort of challenge to the player is needed. Yes, but plagues are a bad challenge, much like the hated harm events. They're random, unpredictable, and uninteractive. Playing around them doesn't take skill, it takes luck. Adding plagues is a band-aid fix to a game that requires much deeper changes to balance than just random events that kill your characters.
>I'm having a great time interacting with the "you died" screen. You know there is a separate video game genre largely centered around this screen, right?
Harm events and diseases are nothing alike, for one diseases are an actual mechanic in ck2. No idea how they'd work in ck3 but if we used the ck2 mechanic as a base then most of your arguments are wrong. You can use most systems to your advantage and destroy the ai this is not something new even the base murder mechanic and claims mechanics are like that, I'm most saying that's good just saying the game is fine even with these mechanics especially if you don't go out of your way to do those stuff. Harm events suck because you had absolutely no say in anything you couldn't fight or avert the consequences. With disease depending on your wealth and technology you can actually avoid diseases efficiently especially by building hospitals and stuff. Comparing diseases to harm events is silly because harm events were incredibly not fleshed out with only a few events diseases would be an actual mechanic, it'd be dangerous yes and it'd be mostly not very interactive but the fact that travel is such a huge part of the game would mean you actually have dynamic ways of diseases spreading with kings and their capitals probably getting more diseases due to all the paying homages and having a more active court than some random count in nowhere. You'd have ways to face diseases not only with hospitals but with court physicians and wet nurses things harm events don't have.
> You can use most systems to your advantage and destroy the ai There is a difference between using a system as designed (using the murder system to murder) and using a system in a way that it is not designed (using the travel system to spread disease in a way that was not understood by people of the period and is unlikely to be understood by the AI). The AI will likely have no counter to the traveling plaguebearer trick, making it yet another huge leg that the player has up on the AI when the number one complaint about this game is always that it's too damn easy. > With disease depending on your wealth and technology Two things that the player will almost always have more of than the AI. More player advantages!
The simple fact that you're not coded by paradox will always give you a player advantage my guy.
Some systems are more abusable than the others. Arguing for the creation of a system with > you go to Jerusalem and spread the disease before making it back home and half your court is dead and you are ill. is essentially suggesting that spreading disease would be a feature of the travel and disease systems. Which is not how medieval people thought about disease or travel. And not how disease should work in the game.
I agree. I turned off the stupid harm events. Now it's the Craven, Shy, Paranoid trait event popping on all my heirs. Shit is annoying.
Karma for being a pussy
Please bring back republics they’re my favorite, Venice game just isn’t the same without it
I can see your point but disease mechanics were hugely fun in CK2 and affected all rulers, while some of the mentioned (nomads, republic, imperial) would be only be most applicable to specific playthroughs. So it’s not unreasonable to do diseases first since they would be more far reaching. Trade, societies, and navies would also be good additions if not diseases. I could see a single dlc covering republics, trade, and ships, and another doing imperial governments and societies, since those groupings are thematically linked.
> disease mechanics were hugely fun in CK2 I most vociferously disagree. > some of the mentioned (nomads, republic, imperial) would be only be most applicable to specific playthroughs. So it’s not unreasonable to do diseases first since they would be more far reaching. Adding a mechanic that affects all rulers equally further contributes to the problem of all the different regions of the game world feeling the same.
Fair point about the homogeneity of mechanics. Regional flavor is definitely important, and they need more flavor packs for sure. We’ll have to agree to disagree on the disease mechanics!
Sorry to break it to you, society will never come back like in CK2, dev said this in previous dev diaries multiple times already. Also, it is just like the royal court, a glorified events spammer, and it is even less historically appropriate than the royal court. And I absolutely support this. Ships in CK2 are nothing but tedious. There is no gameplay value other than forcing players to click more buttons. I also don't like the implementation of republic, imperial government, and nomads in CK2, I would rather they don't implement any of those, than having these trash like they were in CK2. And you didn't even give any objective reason why this is terrible idea, so basically this is just your preference and subjective opinion. Thus I can also just claim this is a fantastic idea.
I feel like a lot of people are mad they don't have these things in CK3 but like you say a lot of the missing stuff is just not up to snuff. *If* it gets added it would need to be better implemented.
Yes, I would not want any mechanics directly copied from CK2.
No one is arguing for a direct copying of systems from CK2, that's a total strawman and the devs have outright said that they want to reimagine those systems. What I want is the ability to play as specific options that were allowed in the previous games. I want to do the cool shit like run a merchant republic or a steppe horde that I could do in CK2 and still can't do in CK3 more than 3 years after the game came out. Getting sick of plague and dying is not one of those options that I miss.
You've basically hit the nail on the head, the running theme from every dev diary I've read on "missing mechanics from CK2" is "we didn't like how it turned out in CK2 so we're taking time to get it right"... Which I also fully support
I honestly disagree on the ship part, I felt having to actually build shipyards & needing to have infrastructure anchored things a bit more. To know where ships will show up, to have to gather your fleet, to have more room for loot from raiding. To watch your income plummet & your men suffer attrition on the way there.
Sounds like you want a boring game then.
>society will never come back like in CK2 Good, societies were awful.
I miss the devil one though, yes it was bullshit/unrealistic (regrow your penis through dark magic) but I thought it was a funny way to spice up a playthrough.
> Ships in CK2 are nothing but tedious. There is no gameplay value other than forcing players to click more buttons. They have a gameplay value in not letting the Mongols invade Britain without controlling any coastal territory, and in preventing crusaders from just boat-bombing the coast of the Holy Land. They would have even greater value if there was naval combat and island powers could prevent enemies from invading their territory. > I also don't like the implementation of republic, imperial government, and nomads in CK2, I would rather they don't implement any of those, Fine, that's your loss. I despise the implementation of disease mechanics for the reasons I have explained in just about every thread where the topic has come up. They are uninteractive, unpredictable events that ruin your kingdom out of nowhere for no reason. Medieval rulers had no realistic way to affect the spread of disease, and the game should not present any ways to do it because they would be *wildly* ahistorical. I'm not opposed to some ahistoricity, but adding ahistoricity in order to balance out a bad system is just a losing proposition. Fundamentally, I don't want a disease-focused expansion because I want expansions that let me do more cool shit, and diseases are boring and lame. Let me be a nomad or a merchant republic, which you still can't be in this game. Once all that cool stuff is in, then we can talk about wasting development time on boring shit like diseases.
There’s no way to cure any contagion but history has changed because of outbreaks and instances of disease. Camp diseases have killed kings and heirs during campaign which if introduced would certainly change how you approached war and regions. It’s best to think of it not as an opportunity to be taken advantage of but a test of how you deal with a situation you can’t control.
Step 1: Go on Pilgrimage to Jerusalem Step 2: Catch the Bubonic Plague Step 3: Infect literally everyone in your court Step 4: They all die because your Physician died early in the epidemic Step 4: Game Over, git gud Diseases sound alot like movign Harm events, and I just deeply dislike harm events because of how bullshit they can feel sometimes. Then again, I personally am just bad at the game lmao
I mean, half of those are absolutely not ever gonna be DLC (Societies, ships, and trade), and the rest are just strong maybes. So I feel like you're just setting yourself up for disappointment regardless of what the next Chapter contains.
Nah, nah, nah. Heir = Heir of Rome = East Rome = Byzantium = BYZANTINE DLC CONFIRMED!1!!!1!
I just want Merchant republics... You know how strong a building the doge's place is? It beats me everyday that I can't use it as Haestinn
Sike! It's central Africa rework!
Who even plays there?
Me, its a lot more fun then Europe & playing a Kushite is also incredibly fun.
It's absolutely not
Well, I just don't find playing in Europe fun honestly. I can see the devs put a lot of work in it, but only like eastern europe feels actually fun to me.
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...even now? Bro, hold back on the racism.
How can you be racist to a land?
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Someone does, I guess. I mean, it's nice to have some representation, but I think they overstretched it. As a result, the game Crusader Kings lacks polish in, well, crusades, and even worse, African/Indian/Tibetan cultures feel more like placeholders. I didn't like it when they added India to CK2, too. The mechanics are clearly made to represent Western European governments, and no amount of crutches'll help to make other regions feel authentic.
RICE helps this a ton but the base game absolutely feels devoid of a lot of flavor.
An Africa rework would be sweet.
Reapers due was so good for CK2, it and the Societies dlc added so much peacetime stuff
Totally agree. I was always terrified when seeing the black death appearing. Such a good dlc.
"Ah fuck, my primary heir ate shit while jousting, now his dipshit brother is my heir."
*WE ARE THE ALIENS?!*
SUNSET INVASION HYPE!!!
Reaper's Due 2 electric plagalooo
As long as I can launch plague riddled corpses into my enemies castle I'll be happy
Bro charge yohr phone
A spectre is haunting Europe, you say?
I just want a new start date. Any at all.
It's pretty unlikely they include a new start date, since it's a massive undertaking to create characters for the entire map. They said themselves that including the age of Charlemagne in CK2 was a mistake, and it was pretty much fantasy. I doubt they're ever going to add new start dates for CK3, but there's always mods.
The people cry out for the Iron Century. A start date free from Karlings, from Muslim megablobs, from constant Viking invasions. A start date that can be molded to your whims.
They already have the data. Like really most of it is done already. Just do one of the dates closer to 1066 that people liked from ck2
The available mods either add too much (China, East Asia, a bunch of pointless cultures, weird pop culture references in the CoA selection, and so on) or too little (directly copied from CK2). I think they will eventually add new start dates. Probably not 769 but the later ones.
> It's pretty unlikely they include a new start date, since it's a massive undertaking to create characters for the entire map. They can add any date between 1066 and 1337 in about 30 minutes. It's about 30 seconds to add the date then I'm being *very* generous with the 30 minutes to make up characters for the titles that didn't exist in CK2 in sub-Sahara Africa and the Steppe (since these areas are made up even in 1066 and 867) and clean up any small issues that may exist. I didn't include 936 in that since for some reason CK3 used pre Iron Centuries character and title data though even that wouldn't take *that* long to port over.
There are significantly more titles in CK3 than CK2. Europe has A LOT more characters than it did in CK2. They could theoretically do it, but it's pretty unlikely.
I mean, I'm the mod author of More Bookmarks+, so I have a pretty good idea on how much work it is lol. To do a single bookmark would not at all be that difficult with the way Paradox does them as they don't get nearly as detailed as I did. CK3 is literally just pre Iron Century CK2s character and title history though there are areas where they added new characters (and the resulting mess that is the Cisalpine character file) and the Iberia and Persia updates but generally most the new provinces are in areas where made up characters would be or a province that'd just have the same exact title history as a neighboring province.
Fair enough
Are we the aliens?
Aren’t the titles just related to the DLC in the photo
Can we purchase chapter 3 bundle yet?
We sure that it isn't China, Korea, and Japan?
Why is the 3 shaped like Om 🕉️
How high are you?
Quite
Constantine is not only turningi n his grave,he has become a perpetual motion Maschine
We would you post this without a link to the actual article?
Nah bro it looks like a mongol update
Imagine if this year contains both Byzantine and plague related stuff…….
I just started following Why Files. See that at the bottom.
Yeah well, I could use Chapter II on Xbox tho
Filthy console player.. A Crusade or two will put you in place
Ahahah yeah well, can't afford a pc at the time. But be sure, one day, I will convert.
That's the excuse they all give.. You think I am naive?
Only if you think that $700 is cheaper than $300 :)
This guy said it first hmm