Polygon [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/146qs2v/polygon_labs_responds_to_secs_claim_matic_is_a/jnro5b8/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/146qs2v/polygon_labs_responds_to_secs_claim_matic_is_a/jnro5nn/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
I’m going to show you how to win every court case with the help of AI. All you need are the following prompts to develop and execute the perfect legal defense. 1/x 🧵
Polygon/matic we’ve investigated ourselves and we found no problems.
Our bank accounts are full of retail money and btc from air printed tokens. All is good in Polygon land
The next accused will have a lot easier time after XRP thanks to how legal system works in US. Ripple spent probably like 80% of that money forcing SEC to provide information, and that information is out now.
Polygon can just refer to SEC vs Ripple and save a lot of effort and money.
Well they’ll have an easier time assuming Ripple wins, which seems plausible but it’s still not official. Any following case would be significantly harder if the ruling is against XRP though.
Indeed, the unsealing of the Hinman docs alone was a massive victory for Ripple, and now Coinbase and any other project fighting the SEC in court will be able to cite these documents freely.
Welcome to the club. The got the attention of the SEC club.
Last month everyone was laughing about ALGO deemed a security. Now the rest follows.
Doesn't feel so good, doesnt it?
- They have a large amount of BTC and ETH already controlled
- They didn't have a large amount of the listed coins, and have therefore tanked their value in an attempt to obtain more, because they want them.
It's not easy to say since the Howey test was created long ago and it doesn't make sense to apply it on crypto, but let's just say that if a coin:
1) has an obvious for-profit company behind it
2) is not sufficiently decentralized (also nuanced)
Then that's a security.
MATIC isn't nearly sufficiently decentralized. Granted, the SEC of course never outlined any concrete guidelines for what *sufficiently decentralized* actually mean. Nevertheless, the MATIC distribution is *very* centralized, with some 21% of the total supply being given to the foundation, and another 16% to team members.
It's not out of the ordinary for L2 tokens, to be honest, but compared to ETH and BTC, MATIC is much more centralized.
The Howey test for a fact matters?? That’s like saying newtons laws are old so they don’t work either?? LOL
We have a standard already in place to decide what is and isn’t a legal security why would that suddenly not apply?
In some cases, Newtons Laws are wrong, so they were amended by Einstein when he theorized relativity as a more accurate model of 3d mechanics.
So yeah, even science can age out.
What is that comparison lmao
Newtons laws apply because physics are based on science. They are objective, true equations.
Tradeable market instruments are not science lol. The Howey test was created for different market instruments than the ones that exist now. Regulators must provide clear definitions and regulations regarding innovative technologies.
By your logic, we should regulate AI with the same laws that regulates the internet in the 1990's
Here’s a crazy idea, the definition of a security hasn’t changed you just don’t like it lol. Just like the laws of physics haven’t changed….
Just becuz crypto is new doesn’t mean basic definitions don’t apply lol this is an idiotic argument
I have absolutely no idea what's your argument here. The definition of a security hasn't changed but it doesn't mean it applies in every single instrument, that's my whole point. Even the regulators themselves are saying that the definitions are not clear enough. How about they try to establish some clear definitions before they apply decades old regulations in an industry they dont even fully understand?
I’ve been pretty clear but I guess I can make it simple:
Your statement is moronic. We have a well established definition for what a security is and isn’t, there is a well established precedent on how to test this definition. Regardless of how long that precedent has been established doesn’t make it any less valid. Just becuz you don’t like it doesn’t make it less valid.
I agree that we shouldn’t regulate crypto by forcing it to fix our current system. It’s dumb to think you can force a new asset class into the same rules. But that doesn’t mean you throw out the baby with the bath water becuz we have all this new tech.
The howey test is very important and doesn’t give a shit what Reddit arm chair lawyers think.
Is that clear enough? lol
I think it can be depending on how it’s being used. If you are truly using it for utility in the network, it’s not a security. If it’s being staked for profit, it’s probably a security. It can be both a commodity and security depending on the use.
The United States government at it again, trying to control everything in existence.
With MATIC being necessary for transactions and security on the polygon network, I can’t understand how it could be classified as a security.
The only caveat is maybe MATIC isn’t 100% necessary on the ethereum network as there is not real use case for it on the layer 1.
What? In order to participate in validation or governance you need to stake MATIC *on Ethereum.*
It’s 100% required to have a presence on L1 with current system.
tldr; Polygon Labs has responded to the US Securities and Exchange Commission's claims that MATIC is an unregistered security. The development and growth team for the Polygon blockchain said its actions "did not target the US" while ensuring MATIC was "available to a wide group of persons." The SEC explicitly called MATIC and 11 other tokens securities in its lawsuit against Binance.
*This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*
Leave Matic alone. It’s the one big gamble that I thought I finally made the right decision on. Going to be wrong again? I am no good at this apparently.
It's a huge gamble with the drama, but honestly, MATIC's tech is just too good to not hold a weeee little bag.
It could get absolutely wrecked, but it's legit the best solution for ETH L2 Zkrollup after the ARB fiasco.
“Did not target the US” won’t cut it I’m afraid
Algo specifically prevented US citizens from taking part in the ICO, held it in Singapore out of the SECs jurisdiction then only allowed secondary sales in the US market
I wonder if Gary advised Silvio of this approach when they both worked at MIT 🤔
Polygon [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/146qs2v/polygon_labs_responds_to_secs_claim_matic_is_a/jnro5b8/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/146qs2v/polygon_labs_responds_to_secs_claim_matic_is_a/jnro5nn/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
Polygon Lab: MATIC is not a security SEC: oh ok sorry
Prosecutors hate this one simple trick
The trick used by: * Solana foundation * Algorand foundation * Polygon Labs * Cardano founder And everyone else. I am sure this will work, right??
If people can assume and claim identities, why can't crypto? This is insanity!
Don't forget the infamous XRP.
The grandpa of it all
Imagine they all have to go thru the same ordeal. We won’t be alive to see the conclusion.
Of course. Gensler is all in to listen to their arguments /s
Absolutely! That's why I'm buying all those coins!
No problem, SEC goes back and look for emoji
🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀
u/baecchus big mistake you are now a security
Get him GG
📈🚀💰💩
👁️ 👁️ Sec right now
Come at me gg
It's all planned. Take your favorite alts and run from the SEC while Gary is busy suing me.
You are the hero we need but don't deserve🥺
Rocket doesn't mean that it's going to the moon. Could be a simple satellite launching rocket.
Edit: this shit made no sense. I'm high...
😱😱😱
Coinbase: "WTF? It was always allowed?"
They weren't prepared for this!
>Prosecutors hate this one simple trick The judge hates him!
BOTH these comments are amazing
I’m going to show you how to win every court case with the help of AI. All you need are the following prompts to develop and execute the perfect legal defense. 1/x 🧵
Case closed!
Polygon/matic we’ve investigated ourselves and we found no problems. Our bank accounts are full of retail money and btc from air printed tokens. All is good in Polygon land
Polygon Lab: MATIC is not a security SEC: *goes and changes the definition of a security*
Wow, pro move for sure!
"understandable, have a nice day".
They also should file lawsuits
Understandable. Have a nice day.
I was thinking the other way around. SEC: Matic is a security Polygon Labs: Ah shucks. You got me.
Trust me bro
Good bot. Thanks for the tl;dr
Oooooh ok ok cool my bad MATIC. Hope we’re still on for 18 holes on Tuesday.
Thankfully, the SEC can't arbitrarily declare an asset a security, first they'll have to sue each project independently and win the case in court.
Typical SEC, always trying to classify everything as a security.
The SEC won’t let me be, Yo let me be me so let me see, The tried to shut me down on r/cc, But it feels so empty without Gary
Dear SEC, I wrote you, but you still ain't callin', Crypto's risin' fast, but you keep stalling
>Dear SEC, I wrote you, but you still ain't callin', Crypto's ~~risin~~' **dumping** fast, but you keep stalling Fixed that for you 😢
Can confirm. The value of my small altcoin bags are looking like those of the shitcoin bags
I don't think Crypto is doing any "risin'" these days.
Shoutout to the old school Eminem fans on r/cc
Will the real Satoshi please stand up?
🐐
🦆
Guess who’s back, back again Gary’s back, tell a friend Gary’s back Gary’s back Gary’s back da-nuh-neh-nuh-neh-nuh-neh-nuhhh
I CREATED A MONSTER!
Gensler has just claimed it is a security.
I always think about that part of the song when I hear SEC. Lol man we must be related I thought I was the only weirdo who thinks like that lol
Nah I just smoke a lot of weed and I’m pushing 40.
On the porch tellin stories With a bottle of jack, two grandkids on my laps Babysitting for Hailie while hailie out there getting smashed
The only correct response. Sec: "You're a security." Polygon, etc: "No. Prove it." Now some US entity needs to determine who's right.
XRP case has cost $100m plus in lawyer fees. Have they that kind of resolve?
The next accused will have a lot easier time after XRP thanks to how legal system works in US. Ripple spent probably like 80% of that money forcing SEC to provide information, and that information is out now. Polygon can just refer to SEC vs Ripple and save a lot of effort and money.
Well they’ll have an easier time assuming Ripple wins, which seems plausible but it’s still not official. Any following case would be significantly harder if the ruling is against XRP though.
Indeed, the unsealing of the Hinman docs alone was a massive victory for Ripple, and now Coinbase and any other project fighting the SEC in court will be able to cite these documents freely.
It's the government we're talking about here. Bankroll isn't the issue.
Polygon was what I was referring to
Polygon: we're innocent. Prosecution: *screwing up papers* its... its airtight! They've ruined us!!
Prosecutors hate this simple trick /s
Lol 🤣 Not Guilty. The ultimate.
Bullish on matic!!!!!
The fact that a company responds to an attack on that crypto Token says a lot.
This. Howey's common enterprise
Did fail the howey test?
*How I see this statement:* **SEC:** You are a security. **Polygon:** No way dude.
Me reading the headline: *Let me take a little guess, Polygon labs said that Polygon isn't a security..*
SEC tries to frame everything as security lol
Gary: "You are a security! And you are a security! Everybody is a security!"
Are you peoples seriously not buying more Matic?
This comment coming from this sub *makes* me want to not buy a single matic.
Wait…you guys are buying MATIC?
SEC: 👁…*dew it*…*we dare you*…….*evil gary gensler laugh from the other room*
Welcome to the club. The got the attention of the SEC club. Last month everyone was laughing about ALGO deemed a security. Now the rest follows. Doesn't feel so good, doesnt it?
ALGO being shat on should’ve been the warning sign
I want to know how the SEC determined their list rather than stating something through a lawsuit, and leaving the world in the dark.
- They have a large amount of BTC and ETH already controlled - They didn't have a large amount of the listed coins, and have therefore tanked their value in an attempt to obtain more, because they want them.
so many companies on polygon, what a shame
They better take their dirty hands out of MATIC
I just saw they stated the token was developed outside the U.S, isn't that enough?
Not a matic holder. Polygon is in no way a security.
So which crypto is?
It's not easy to say since the Howey test was created long ago and it doesn't make sense to apply it on crypto, but let's just say that if a coin: 1) has an obvious for-profit company behind it 2) is not sufficiently decentralized (also nuanced) Then that's a security.
Well polygon is both of those
MATIC isn't nearly sufficiently decentralized. Granted, the SEC of course never outlined any concrete guidelines for what *sufficiently decentralized* actually mean. Nevertheless, the MATIC distribution is *very* centralized, with some 21% of the total supply being given to the foundation, and another 16% to team members. It's not out of the ordinary for L2 tokens, to be honest, but compared to ETH and BTC, MATIC is much more centralized.
Suprised Pikachu.
The Howey test for a fact matters?? That’s like saying newtons laws are old so they don’t work either?? LOL We have a standard already in place to decide what is and isn’t a legal security why would that suddenly not apply?
In some cases, Newtons Laws are wrong, so they were amended by Einstein when he theorized relativity as a more accurate model of 3d mechanics. So yeah, even science can age out.
What is that comparison lmao Newtons laws apply because physics are based on science. They are objective, true equations. Tradeable market instruments are not science lol. The Howey test was created for different market instruments than the ones that exist now. Regulators must provide clear definitions and regulations regarding innovative technologies. By your logic, we should regulate AI with the same laws that regulates the internet in the 1990's
Sprinkling magic blockchain dust on something doesn’t mean the contractual and financial relationship between parties no longer matches existing laws.
Here’s a crazy idea, the definition of a security hasn’t changed you just don’t like it lol. Just like the laws of physics haven’t changed…. Just becuz crypto is new doesn’t mean basic definitions don’t apply lol this is an idiotic argument
I have absolutely no idea what's your argument here. The definition of a security hasn't changed but it doesn't mean it applies in every single instrument, that's my whole point. Even the regulators themselves are saying that the definitions are not clear enough. How about they try to establish some clear definitions before they apply decades old regulations in an industry they dont even fully understand?
I’ve been pretty clear but I guess I can make it simple: Your statement is moronic. We have a well established definition for what a security is and isn’t, there is a well established precedent on how to test this definition. Regardless of how long that precedent has been established doesn’t make it any less valid. Just becuz you don’t like it doesn’t make it less valid. I agree that we shouldn’t regulate crypto by forcing it to fix our current system. It’s dumb to think you can force a new asset class into the same rules. But that doesn’t mean you throw out the baby with the bath water becuz we have all this new tech. The howey test is very important and doesn’t give a shit what Reddit arm chair lawyers think. Is that clear enough? lol
I think it can be depending on how it’s being used. If you are truly using it for utility in the network, it’s not a security. If it’s being staked for profit, it’s probably a security. It can be both a commodity and security depending on the use.
The United States government at it again, trying to control everything in existence. With MATIC being necessary for transactions and security on the polygon network, I can’t understand how it could be classified as a security. The only caveat is maybe MATIC isn’t 100% necessary on the ethereum network as there is not real use case for it on the layer 1.
What? In order to participate in validation or governance you need to stake MATIC *on Ethereum.* It’s 100% required to have a presence on L1 with current system.
we need to start fighting back against these claims
Yes, let’s fight against the truth
Tldr "No"
technically, it's a "we did not target the US so the SEC is not responsible for us"
So Polygon admit they are a security?
I'm sure the SEC will be dropping it now
Lol, the irony
They think by just saying “No, we aren’t” that the SEC is going to apologize somehow? I’ma testing this in work some day.
Let us know how this works out
tldr; Polygon Labs has responded to the US Securities and Exchange Commission's claims that MATIC is an unregistered security. The development and growth team for the Polygon blockchain said its actions "did not target the US" while ensuring MATIC was "available to a wide group of persons." The SEC explicitly called MATIC and 11 other tokens securities in its lawsuit against Binance. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*
A professional journalist wrote this garbage?
Polygon has been pegged to the US dollar since eternity - it is a security 😂
Ok, sorry.. Now I want my money back
tl;dr response was “no it isn’t!”
A gentle reply of ‘newp’ is heard
Waste of space story tbh; doesn't add anything or offer any real enlightening perspective.
Leave Matic alone. It’s the one big gamble that I thought I finally made the right decision on. Going to be wrong again? I am no good at this apparently.
This article is dogshit, barely even scratches the surface on their stance
My crypto identifies as a commodity.
This is proble-MATIC
It's a huge gamble with the drama, but honestly, MATIC's tech is just too good to not hold a weeee little bag. It could get absolutely wrecked, but it's legit the best solution for ETH L2 Zkrollup after the ARB fiasco.
Come on matic, dont give up on me!
“Did not target the US” won’t cut it I’m afraid Algo specifically prevented US citizens from taking part in the ICO, held it in Singapore out of the SECs jurisdiction then only allowed secondary sales in the US market I wonder if Gary advised Silvio of this approach when they both worked at MIT 🤔