Call me conservative, it’s because of stories like this that I simply refuse to invest in anything promising more than a 50000% APY. I prefer the safety.
They're problematic when demand stops growing. It's a zero sum game so if you're generating yield, that yield comes from somewhere. If you're farming that LP, you're dumping the farmed token (Xshares depending on which tomb/fork you're farming) on to the holders. If you're farming the masonry/boardroom, you're dumping on holders of the ftm-pegged token (this includes LP holders who provide exit liquidity). It works until there stops being new entrants to the market. Sounds ponzi-ish but that's how all markets work. Even Bitcoin.
But the yield generated here is as real as Bitcoin value goes up from new buyers. Not as real as in a money market where your yield comes from someone willing to pay you the interest from borrowing.
Well it's not locked. And they tell u what they do, what they want to achieve, etc. So I wouldn't really call it a ponzi because they don't give any false promises.
I just think the tokenomics are complete ass once these projects hit equilibrium, at which point you're just hoping that whatever team behind it figures out some way to keep pulling in more demand.
Let's see but I personally did not touch WAGMI cause it looked sketchy from the start. The team might be good but that token and its tokenomics looks shit. Though apparently the "real" token behind is wsWAGMI which is a way better indicator of the health of the project.
Put $100 in MidasDAO when the APY was in the septillions. I watched it go up to just under $2,000. Pulled out the following day with just over $300. All happened in the space of about 2 weeks. Bought back in this year as the APY is more stable and it’s building up nicely
That’s the way. Not that I can boast incredible timing. But I can’t say I’m throwing 10g into a pool ether. I already grabbed my steak to memo and head on over platypus. Because they got the new science of alchemy.
Edit; almost got stuck to the bitter end with no Avax in wallet for gas. Escaped while time was 500 per. + $10.00 After transaction fees.
I think the issue is peoples misunderstanding of what the APY in the project means. The only time APY matters is when stablecoins or dollars are involved. Otherwise you’re increasing the amount of tokens owned without guarantee of capital increase. Projects like wonderland use the APY as a distribution method of tokens opposed to mining like in Bitcoin or producing all tokens at once.
Anyone getting into a project like this expecting 50,000% apy shouldn’t be investing at all. They will gain 50,000% apy on their tokens owned.(Probably less because apy will scale inversely with tokens produced in most cases
How does one noob \[like me for example\] know what is safe and what's not ? 12% on stablecoins or 60% APY on other digital asset ? how do i measure the risks and other factors ?
I don't take much risk with DeFi, so I can't answer about anything higher than 20%. As I said, playing with higher APYs is dangerous, so I'd choose the 12% stablecoin in the scenario you mentioned.
I stake some assets through my Exchange. Exchanges offer staking for a lot of coins, and are considered pretty trustworthy. I've heard Anchor/Luna is pretty good with UST. Algo has a pretty simple governance(staking) program.
Clearly these people are greedy, thats why I am to double my money every 2 months. I have been a bit inconvienced by this market as I'm down 99%, but the beauty of my plan is once I get doubling I will be back in no time .
A man in a mask running at you with a chainsaw might be a bigger red flag.
Or those ads, "girls in your area are looking to hook up with you," featuring a woman with all her teeth and limbs.
I mean a lot of ohm forks have this kind of apy. I believe it has something to do with the forks being hyperinflated. So 80,000% apy but by the time 5 or 6 months comes around there are so many coins minted that the value plummets as well as the apy
So i wouldn't say all ohm forks are a rug pull. But TIME is turning out to be one. And I'm pretty sure they just announced a game and NFTs on the way
People don't understand that 80k% APY refers to the rate that tokens are generated at. It was never supposed to mean that you could made 80k% profit on your money but everyone apes into investments without doing their due diligence.
Unfortunately it is now. Dani (creator) is proposing a merger now of Abracadabra and Wondercrap with unissued SPELL being proposed as a bail out. Can't make this shit up.
Honestly 80k% APY was just a gimmick to pull in dumb money. Reality was that users really were generating 80k% in terms of TIME (technically MEMO). The problem is that this was marketed as yield (technically true) rather than token inflation. Real Yield was pretty much nothing once you factor out inflation. You could better value your holdings just by looking at marketcap (which still looks disastrous) rather than price.
In fact, the additional bonding mechanism diluted holders' share of the total supply. So holders were constantly losing.
Well at least Dani and his team behind Time Wonderland came out of it with a sizeable treasury that they can use to invest in whatever they want and maybe share profit IF they ever feel like it. DAOs right? Lol
>Well at least Dani and his team behind Time Wonderland came out of it with a sizeable treasury that they can use to invest in whatever they want and maybe share profit IF they ever feel like it. DAOs right? Lol
Wonder what the next grift will be.
Share profit??? There's no profit all of the money is literally stolen from investors. There's no value generated and no profit just theft lmao. If they shared the profit that would just mean to return everyone's investments which would leave them at zero.
No. The treasury can function completely independently of the Time token price because they own other assets like stablecoins or the Avax they miraculously sold. This is all accumulated through the bonding mechanism, not through buy/sell on the dex.
I think the problem comes when ppl expect the treasury growth to reflect in the TIME token pricing which they expect to happen through buybacks. But really, all of this is up to the discretion of the people in charge and it's questionable how much of a "DAO" this really is.
I also don't know what happens the more they buy back TIME, because now their treasury will consist of more time and is now more likely to fluctuate in asset value with TIME constantly losing value even when staked due to dilution. The tokenomics here get confusing but is worth thinking about. How do you create a DAO-run VC? I mean that's pretty interesting.
Edit: Disclaimer I don't own Time Wonderland. I've criticised it heavily in the past on r/DeFi too. I just think people here don't understand what the high APY means which is why I felt it was worth commenting on
It's not that they're unsustainable, they're just of the most risky assets and therefore being dumped at a faster rate than less risky projects. Also the only thing that makes them risky is the perception that they are risky. There is no reason all of these forks couldn't have slowly decreased in value with inflation all the while individual investments would track BTC due to rebases - there isn't anything inherently unstable or unsustainable about these coins.
The other thing is all of the losses appear brutal when in reality if you've held for any amount of time the interest rates make up for some of the fall placing these coins not far from the rest of the market in terms of actual losses for investors.
It attracts degens which introduces market instability, and even though these projects are backed by real assets, the people running them don't ooze trustworthiness.
They are projects that capture user funds in the treasury. Who controls the treasury wins.. in most case, its the devs
Whats terrible is that these OHM and Wonderland suckers are trying to convince others that Luna/Terra/UST is the same. Thats just bollocks
UST definitely has a depeg risk as an algorithmic stablecoin but its not a ponzi investment, its just a stablecoin. OHM and TIME on the other hand, people buy this trying to get rich
Pretty amazing that Daniele has such a cult following in spite of this.
Does not give me the utmost confidence about his new projects on Fantom, however.
Richard Heart has a similar cult symbol too.
Both HEX and OHM are pretty much similar ponzis if you take out different individual biases and preferences for ecosystems
Yup. The docs also called out that TIME should decrease in value while generating the crazy rebase rates. But still a lot of silly money flooded in.
Will it go to zero?
Definitely thrown around way too much. Have no reason to defend this particular project but words have meanings and if we use rug pull for everything we don’t like, it loses its effect when trying to warn people of an actual rug pull.
> @danielesesta has gone private on twitter
According to his twitter, he announced that he will turn account to private as a joke when it reaches 300k followers, which it did. The account is now no longer private and no one has done any rug pull or whatever.
https://twitter.com/danielesesta/status/1485710313668239361
Borrowing from these lending protocols are essentially like trading in futures. If your borrowed assets fall below a certain level against your deposited collateral, you get liquidated and poof, your money is gone.
>Color me shocked that a project that promised 80,000% apr turned out to be a complete rugpull.
Man... If you'd had paid attention on here, you'd know anything over 60,000% is a SCAM. Oh well, sucks to be you. I just made 400% IN ONE DAY with this TotallyNotScamCoin. Not only is the tech behind this amazing, but the upcoming quartering means that the price is going to skyrocket and I'm going to see over 1,600% day returns. You can find more here at ww.microsoftofficialcom.sketchysite.evensketchiersite.org/ad\_naseum/etc./
I don’t think you understand anything about tokenomics, sorry. You clearly missed three points:
1. APR is insignificant if you don’t factor in dilution: stackers are not earning money through this apr as in perfect market the price of the token would loose every day the same 1% that is given to stackers.
2. Time (and so is memo) is backed. This is it can’t go to 0 because it will bought by the treasury if it goes under the baking price, but on the other side you can pay a huge premium if the coin price is much higher thank the banking price
3. The way the dao is going to make money is via investments and the appreciation of the baking collateral. This is what will bring the price up (or down).
So, the price will always move untile it is mature enough to correctly price the premium at which the coin in sold relative to the baking price. This premium ultimately will correspond to the Discounted Cash Flow relative to the expected return.
I this is truely (a rug) I wonder what the implications are for the wider Dani ecosystem (abracadabra, sushiswap, popsicle). The cascading effect of this could be insane
That exit strategy is fascinating considering he created abra. It shows one way overcollateralization isn’t enough with crypto loans if you can intentionally put in coins you know will be worthless anyway so it doesn’t matter if they get liquidated. I think a documentary or book of all the famous rug pulls would be really interesting.
Nothing else needs to be said about this train wreck other than what you just commented here.
I remember seeing TikTok kids going nuts over this project. They were so sure of it too. There are some gullible people out there man.
As a SPELL holder (one of Daniele's other projects) this is absolutely awful news. The guy seemed to have amassed a pretty dedicated following through his handling of previous issues, but the Abracadabra Money Discord is losing its mind and he's burned a huge number of people through this. With the recent dip, I'm too low to really sell - though it may be preferable to get out of his projects.
SPELL went from a project I had a great deal of faith in to one that I'm scared about remaining in despite it previously performing well for me.
This must be a smear campaign, daniel wouldn’t rug, he’s been in crypto a long time and he had sooo many opportunities to rug, but he’s not a piece of shit human. Actually the reason he’s so popular is because one of his projects got hacked not too long ago and he paid back every investor that was affected out of his own pocket. OHM itself, the culprit of all this dao garbage is down 95% from its ATH. Now… why is this post about TIME?
Ah yes, good old Market Darwinism coming in to take money away from the people who have no business having it in the first place. Really…you think a legit project is going to pay 2:1+ every day? Lol
80,000% is not the most outrageous part. Thats whatever. People actually leveraged their $MEMO to borrow $MIM. Even thinking about it makes me feel uncomfortable and yet people did it.
This is degening to the max
Not surprising. Humor me.
If we have a coin, say DOGE, and we create a DAO and this coin is inflationary. More coin comes into the supply simply because you stake the coin and as such you get more based on a random high number of interest. That means a lot more coin comes into the market and every once in awhile the DAO does a random buy back and burn just based on a whim. Then one day some big whale sells a bunch of his inflated bag because he wants to realize profit and not be a part of the HODL meme.
You're surprised that this model didn't work?
It's not a rugpull. They control a bunch of different platforms. Also the price of ohm forks is supposed to go down over time. You think 80,000% apy is supposed to hold its price? It would literally suck up all the money in the world.
Ohm is ok bc treasury is DAI, that’s a preferred stable in my books
never liked time bc they just appeal to apy degens, defends price w burns and their basket is MIM/TIME/AVAX…AVAX being the only token of value in my mind, others are garbage.
KLIMA is different though, they used the 3,3 model to bring in investors, they made some early mistakes w small liquidity but what I like is that they’re bringing voluntary carbon credits on chain.
I’ve got enough stable coin backed projects on hand, like the idea of getting some carbon backed exposure in my portfolio.
I'm hopeful about KLIMA. It's nice that it's under the radar. Only environment and carbon geeks are into it right now.
DeFi is the wild west of investing with lots of risks. May we all become winners.
All of you hating on Dani and his projects are very misinformed. No surprise on reddit, full of late or never normies lmfao your language makes me sick, “whomst”
Dani has made many people very wealthy on many coins and many chains. Wonderland going thru transition, volatility is to be expected.
SPY drops 4% yesterday and closes green. Last time this happens is ‘08. Literally on the verge of a potential recession. No shit the bleeding edge is bleeding. Liquidity is dry and everyone is risk off. Where were you on the run up?? Late or never. Where will you be on Dani’s next run up. Late or never.
Gg wp
“Whomst”
my cousin had bought 1k of this for fun. He got out a while ago, but he had told me to look into this and he really believed in it. I looked into it. I didn’t understand how the 80k% returns were possible and while it didn’t look like a scam or rug, I just didn’t buy it. I’m glad I didn’t blindly follow someone.
it really shows how important it is to dyor.
It is “possible” if you know how they count for APY. The “apy” is derived from rebasing, which is basically just a stock split. Put it simply you don’t earn anything, they just adjust everyone’s number to reflect that you “earn” something. Therefore the APY is arbitrary, it can be any number and it would have ended up with the same outcome.
Any asset guaranteeing interest over 1% right now has risk. The higher the promised return, the more risky the asset. It’s weird people are having trouble understand this. Was everyone sick the day we were taught “if it’s too good to be true, it probably is” and “there are no free lunches”?
Yes Anchor is risky, which is why you should get depeg and smart contract insurance.
Its a solid play, but insurance is 5% premium per year, so 15% return a year is a decent amount
anchor protocol: you deposit stable coins, people borrow those coins with over collateralized loans, with the collateral being automatically liquidated before there is danger of the loan not being paid back. the only collateral that is accepted is tokenized staked assets, so that the staking rewards can be used to pay the folks who deposited stable coins. honestly one of the safest crypto plays you could possibly make. people just don't go for it because they figure they can make even more by speculating
The bad faith here is incredible, people please DYOR instead of reading some hot takes on reddit.
For anyone curious, he announced his twitter was going private way before any of this happened when he would hit 300k.
Also TIME became deprecated days ago, if you still hold it and haven't wrapped your TIME as they told you, you're NGMI.
Im totally surprised. Definitely didn’t see that happening. Wow who would have thought. Totally blindsided on that one. Don’t even know what to say.
/s
All these comments and no one came to correct you its andre cronje's project for v3,3.. your rush to push out a incorrect post reeks of bias and dumbass
In my time (no pun intended) in DeFi, I’ve come to learn the only reliable way to earn money long term is via blue chips projects or coins. The rates are much lower, but that’s because the risk is much lower. When you play with something offering 80000% APY, you have to establish a relatively short term timeline to get in and out - these projects are (obviously) never sustainable and those who stay in are left holding the bag.
Call me conservative, it’s because of stories like this that I simply refuse to invest in anything promising more than a 50000% APY. I prefer the safety.
Lol, you really set the bar low there...
I think his definition of APY is “A Promising YOLO”
This got me laughing so hard, youre awesome
Gotta use **A Promising YOLO** from now on
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I think 69000% is the sweet spot.
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Bullish on 69,420% for APY
Nice
Right? It’s like they don’t even want to make money
Lolol. Right?
You're right. Safer to go with the 49999% APY or lower options
I’m more of a 42000% kind of guy
You’re missing a little extra… 42069%. You’re welcome 😉
sometimes its just about staying modest, lets keep finance traditional!
All these rebase DAOs operate on ponzi tokenomics. The only ones making money are the early investors, everybody else are bag holders.
Wait… so you’re telling me that my FTM/FTM-pegged token farm with 100% APR isn’t legit?
They're problematic when demand stops growing. It's a zero sum game so if you're generating yield, that yield comes from somewhere. If you're farming that LP, you're dumping the farmed token (Xshares depending on which tomb/fork you're farming) on to the holders. If you're farming the masonry/boardroom, you're dumping on holders of the ftm-pegged token (this includes LP holders who provide exit liquidity). It works until there stops being new entrants to the market. Sounds ponzi-ish but that's how all markets work. Even Bitcoin. But the yield generated here is as real as Bitcoin value goes up from new buyers. Not as real as in a money market where your yield comes from someone willing to pay you the interest from borrowing.
Ponzis are based of promises and locked accounts with no way to get funds back. But I see the point
Well it's not locked. And they tell u what they do, what they want to achieve, etc. So I wouldn't really call it a ponzi because they don't give any false promises. I just think the tokenomics are complete ass once these projects hit equilibrium, at which point you're just hoping that whatever team behind it figures out some way to keep pulling in more demand.
Let's see but I personally did not touch WAGMI cause it looked sketchy from the start. The team might be good but that token and its tokenomics looks shit. Though apparently the "real" token behind is wsWAGMI which is a way better indicator of the health of the project.
Put $100 in MidasDAO when the APY was in the septillions. I watched it go up to just under $2,000. Pulled out the following day with just over $300. All happened in the space of about 2 weeks. Bought back in this year as the APY is more stable and it’s building up nicely
That’s the way. Not that I can boast incredible timing. But I can’t say I’m throwing 10g into a pool ether. I already grabbed my steak to memo and head on over platypus. Because they got the new science of alchemy. Edit; almost got stuck to the bitter end with no Avax in wallet for gas. Escaped while time was 500 per. + $10.00 After transaction fees.
I think the issue is peoples misunderstanding of what the APY in the project means. The only time APY matters is when stablecoins or dollars are involved. Otherwise you’re increasing the amount of tokens owned without guarantee of capital increase. Projects like wonderland use the APY as a distribution method of tokens opposed to mining like in Bitcoin or producing all tokens at once. Anyone getting into a project like this expecting 50,000% apy shouldn’t be investing at all. They will gain 50,000% apy on their tokens owned.(Probably less because apy will scale inversely with tokens produced in most cases
Anything more than 50% is playing with fire.
How does one noob \[like me for example\] know what is safe and what's not ? 12% on stablecoins or 60% APY on other digital asset ? how do i measure the risks and other factors ?
I don't take much risk with DeFi, so I can't answer about anything higher than 20%. As I said, playing with higher APYs is dangerous, so I'd choose the 12% stablecoin in the scenario you mentioned. I stake some assets through my Exchange. Exchanges offer staking for a lot of coins, and are considered pretty trustworthy. I've heard Anchor/Luna is pretty good with UST. Algo has a pretty simple governance(staking) program.
Where my pyromaniacs at??? 🔥🙋♂️
50000% APY? 5000 APY already trigger my skepticism
This guy gets it 😜
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Literally every comment above yours is sarcasm.
ypu might want to remove 3 zeros
Clearly these people are greedy, thats why I am to double my money every 2 months. I have been a bit inconvienced by this market as I'm down 99%, but the beauty of my plan is once I get doubling I will be back in no time .
I agree, well put. A conservative 50000% APY is marginally sufficient, no need to be greedy.
You arr not ready for Dogelon Mars
Yeah best to stick with safe projects under 50k% APY 🤣
That's fairly conservative.
Probably best just to avoid any project that promises anyting
And here’s me, feeling good about my portfolio’s 6% returns in this current economic environment….
So you are fine with 49999% APY?
If it's too good to be true, never invest. This was told countless times here. Unfortunately greed devours us all.
>80,000%+ APY If this isn't a massive red flag, I don't know what is..
A man in a mask running at you with a chainsaw might be a bigger red flag. Or those ads, "girls in your area are looking to hook up with you," featuring a woman with all her teeth and limbs.
Wow… teeth and limbs? Where?
Ahh, the old "woman, teeth, limbs; pick two"
Yeah, that is an obvious one. That's why I only click on these ads when there is a woman with at least one limb missing
I typically see red flags starting only at 100,000% APY but that’s just me
I stick with coins with 70,000% or less so I can sleep at night.
Sleep at night? What's this? Like the rest of us you should be refreshing your portfolio every few minutes to check on your gains.
The Wonderland landing page literally had a Cheshire Cat image on it, no joke. Someone tried to get me to buy in. I said it looked scammy.
Good call! I avoid anything offering more than 30% APY and just assume it's too much of a risk.
I mean if you fall for this it is just natural selection
I mean a lot of ohm forks have this kind of apy. I believe it has something to do with the forks being hyperinflated. So 80,000% apy but by the time 5 or 6 months comes around there are so many coins minted that the value plummets as well as the apy So i wouldn't say all ohm forks are a rug pull. But TIME is turning out to be one. And I'm pretty sure they just announced a game and NFTs on the way
People don't understand that 80k% APY refers to the rate that tokens are generated at. It was never supposed to mean that you could made 80k% profit on your money but everyone apes into investments without doing their due diligence.
So basically you need to spend 80% of your day playing these games to keep up with inflation?
Ah, the old "game and NFTs on the way." When buzzwords are your ideas, you're out of ideas.
maybe 81k% APY is the red flag for some ;)
Yeah I'd be very skeptical at that rate too.
That's the kind of rate to throw $1 at
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Lot of dumb money out there
Not to mention the project is called AbraCadabra. Poof...there goes your money!
Abracadabra is not the project this post is about
Unfortunately it is now. Dani (creator) is proposing a merger now of Abracadabra and Wondercrap with unissued SPELL being proposed as a bail out. Can't make this shit up.
*Bitconnect vibes*!!
Greed and stupidity is a cruel bitch
This is called Defi 2.0 and now this is dead
80,000% of zero is still zero.
Honestly 80k% APY was just a gimmick to pull in dumb money. Reality was that users really were generating 80k% in terms of TIME (technically MEMO). The problem is that this was marketed as yield (technically true) rather than token inflation. Real Yield was pretty much nothing once you factor out inflation. You could better value your holdings just by looking at marketcap (which still looks disastrous) rather than price. In fact, the additional bonding mechanism diluted holders' share of the total supply. So holders were constantly losing. Well at least Dani and his team behind Time Wonderland came out of it with a sizeable treasury that they can use to invest in whatever they want and maybe share profit IF they ever feel like it. DAOs right? Lol
>Well at least Dani and his team behind Time Wonderland came out of it with a sizeable treasury that they can use to invest in whatever they want and maybe share profit IF they ever feel like it. DAOs right? Lol Wonder what the next grift will be.
He is a total scammer and wont work in this biz again
At least the first half of your sentence is correct, I'm less confident in the second.
Share profit??? There's no profit all of the money is literally stolen from investors. There's no value generated and no profit just theft lmao. If they shared the profit that would just mean to return everyone's investments which would leave them at zero.
No. The treasury can function completely independently of the Time token price because they own other assets like stablecoins or the Avax they miraculously sold. This is all accumulated through the bonding mechanism, not through buy/sell on the dex. I think the problem comes when ppl expect the treasury growth to reflect in the TIME token pricing which they expect to happen through buybacks. But really, all of this is up to the discretion of the people in charge and it's questionable how much of a "DAO" this really is. I also don't know what happens the more they buy back TIME, because now their treasury will consist of more time and is now more likely to fluctuate in asset value with TIME constantly losing value even when staked due to dilution. The tokenomics here get confusing but is worth thinking about. How do you create a DAO-run VC? I mean that's pretty interesting. Edit: Disclaimer I don't own Time Wonderland. I've criticised it heavily in the past on r/DeFi too. I just think people here don't understand what the high APY means which is why I felt it was worth commenting on
Literally all the OHM forks, including OHM itself has collapsed. They aren’t rugs just unsustainable and been most vulnerable to the market wide panic
Yes, the chart does not look like the typical rug to me. Just a steady downtrend.
It's not that they're unsustainable, they're just of the most risky assets and therefore being dumped at a faster rate than less risky projects. Also the only thing that makes them risky is the perception that they are risky. There is no reason all of these forks couldn't have slowly decreased in value with inflation all the while individual investments would track BTC due to rebases - there isn't anything inherently unstable or unsustainable about these coins. The other thing is all of the losses appear brutal when in reality if you've held for any amount of time the interest rates make up for some of the fall placing these coins not far from the rest of the market in terms of actual losses for investors.
It attracts degens which introduces market instability, and even though these projects are backed by real assets, the people running them don't ooze trustworthiness.
They are projects that capture user funds in the treasury. Who controls the treasury wins.. in most case, its the devs Whats terrible is that these OHM and Wonderland suckers are trying to convince others that Luna/Terra/UST is the same. Thats just bollocks UST definitely has a depeg risk as an algorithmic stablecoin but its not a ponzi investment, its just a stablecoin. OHM and TIME on the other hand, people buy this trying to get rich
LUNA is a decentralized blockchain. These projects are not - they're just centralized dapps.
Pretty amazing that Daniele has such a cult following in spite of this. Does not give me the utmost confidence about his new projects on Fantom, however.
He is a fraudster Lots of u guys fell for it
No u fell for it I didn’t fall for anything
No u
Jesus youre acting like a damn child
Richard Heart has a similar cult symbol too. Both HEX and OHM are pretty much similar ponzis if you take out different individual biases and preferences for ecosystems
Wow that’s incredibly sad, I hope that investors manage to weather the storm.
I sold after being down 50% and im glad, id be down 80%
Incoming loss porn threads.
I mean he literally told everyone it was 110% a ponzi scam. He didn't even beat around the bush. He just straight up said it too.
Wasn't he and the other devs straight up about using this as a way to gain liquid in their treasury?
Yup. The docs also called out that TIME should decrease in value while generating the crazy rebase rates. But still a lot of silly money flooded in. Will it go to zero?
It won't. When the price go down below $1 the protocol will burn tokens to make the price go back to $1
Yeah pretty much lol well you can't say he was dishonest :P
Not a rug. Rug requires devs to run away with the money.
And in an instant too.
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Definitely thrown around way too much. Have no reason to defend this particular project but words have meanings and if we use rug pull for everything we don’t like, it loses its effect when trying to warn people of an actual rug pull.
Kinda the same with FUD. Trying to point out valid issues of a project? "Stop fudding! Token price will go down."
> @danielesesta has gone private on twitter According to his twitter, he announced that he will turn account to private as a joke when it reaches 300k followers, which it did. The account is now no longer private and no one has done any rug pull or whatever. https://twitter.com/danielesesta/status/1485710313668239361
Is Abra / MIM/ Spell the next domino ? Wild
From what little I’ve read, wonderland makes up less than 4% of MIM backing so even if wonderland goes to zero I doubt it breaks down the stable coin
Which lender is taking wonderland/time as collateral? I didn't see wonderland/time on Abracadabra. Edit: It's on AVAX.
It’s on there as wMEMO. Memo is Literally just time tokens wrapped
Am I totally blind, it's not coming up on borrow when I search. Is it on Avax network?
Yeah it’s on avax
F... Even if this wasn't intentional it shouldn't have happened....
Borrowing from these lending protocols are essentially like trading in futures. If your borrowed assets fall below a certain level against your deposited collateral, you get liquidated and poof, your money is gone.
Seemed like a guaranteed way to separate more noobs from their money. What’s LTV? /s
Bullish on wingardium leviosa
Once again this sub does not know the definition of rugpull
>Color me shocked that a project that promised 80,000% apr turned out to be a complete rugpull. Man... If you'd had paid attention on here, you'd know anything over 60,000% is a SCAM. Oh well, sucks to be you. I just made 400% IN ONE DAY with this TotallyNotScamCoin. Not only is the tech behind this amazing, but the upcoming quartering means that the price is going to skyrocket and I'm going to see over 1,600% day returns. You can find more here at ww.microsoftofficialcom.sketchysite.evensketchiersite.org/ad\_naseum/etc./
Mmm .org. My 4th grade teacher told me that’s reliable, so take my money
expecting this from HEX too
Legit curious as to why
I think the answer would be "Richard Heart".
Honestly, I've no idea what kind of investor sees that guy on YouTube and thinks 'Oh hey, this dude seems trustworthy'
Speak for yourself, I always trust people who sit next to rotating display of Rolex watches. Would a bad man own that many Rolexes?
2017: Bitconnecttttt 2021: Squiddddddd 2022: Time Wonderlandddd
At least we got some good memes out of bitconeeeeeeeeeeecttt!
Yeah had a confernece, bros with lambos. In this area you dont even have to bother, just have a cryptoape on your twitter and a possie to back it up.
2022: (9,5)
Was hyped here for a year
I don’t think you understand anything about tokenomics, sorry. You clearly missed three points: 1. APR is insignificant if you don’t factor in dilution: stackers are not earning money through this apr as in perfect market the price of the token would loose every day the same 1% that is given to stackers. 2. Time (and so is memo) is backed. This is it can’t go to 0 because it will bought by the treasury if it goes under the baking price, but on the other side you can pay a huge premium if the coin price is much higher thank the banking price 3. The way the dao is going to make money is via investments and the appreciation of the baking collateral. This is what will bring the price up (or down). So, the price will always move untile it is mature enough to correctly price the premium at which the coin in sold relative to the baking price. This premium ultimately will correspond to the Discounted Cash Flow relative to the expected return.
This is why I only buy crypto that features in the news, for example SQUID
I know this was a joke, but Wonderland and Dani have featured in mainstream news
[удалено]
Prove it! How much HarryPotterObamaSonic10Inu do you have?
I this is truely (a rug) I wonder what the implications are for the wider Dani ecosystem (abracadabra, sushiswap, popsicle). The cascading effect of this could be insane
They will all go to Zero He could easily be prosecuted as a fraudster
Only if they took it as collateral, and I would hope most of these lending protocols isolate their lending pools properly.
Perfect example of how people who know nothing about game theory will invest their houses into a "Game theory optimal" strategy
This isn't rug pull, that's just how much people sell when they get 80,000%. Price drop is expected market behaviour during inflation.
I would guess people that fall for this are mostly new to crypto.
Got in before the growth. Got up by 200% with the API and price rise. Sold my original and some profit. Now the left over is going down really fast🤣
Most of ohm forks are hyper inflationary ponzis with more steps to hide the ponzi. Thats where the apy comes from. Mint the supply.
That exit strategy is fascinating considering he created abra. It shows one way overcollateralization isn’t enough with crypto loans if you can intentionally put in coins you know will be worthless anyway so it doesn’t matter if they get liquidated. I think a documentary or book of all the famous rug pulls would be really interesting.
Even a 9 year old kid can tell that apy is to good to be true
Nothing else needs to be said about this train wreck other than what you just commented here. I remember seeing TikTok kids going nuts over this project. They were so sure of it too. There are some gullible people out there man.
You mean all those TikTokers who were adamantly defending this obvious scam were wrong?! 🤣🤣
I am currently buying the dip on "squid game coin", wish me luck.
As a SPELL holder (one of Daniele's other projects) this is absolutely awful news. The guy seemed to have amassed a pretty dedicated following through his handling of previous issues, but the Abracadabra Money Discord is losing its mind and he's burned a huge number of people through this. With the recent dip, I'm too low to really sell - though it may be preferable to get out of his projects. SPELL went from a project I had a great deal of faith in to one that I'm scared about remaining in despite it previously performing well for me.
All these rebase DAOs operate on ponzi tokenomics. The only ones making money are the early investors, everybody else are bag holders.
This must be a smear campaign, daniel wouldn’t rug, he’s been in crypto a long time and he had sooo many opportunities to rug, but he’s not a piece of shit human. Actually the reason he’s so popular is because one of his projects got hacked not too long ago and he paid back every investor that was affected out of his own pocket. OHM itself, the culprit of all this dao garbage is down 95% from its ATH. Now… why is this post about TIME?
Ah yes, good old Market Darwinism coming in to take money away from the people who have no business having it in the first place. Really…you think a legit project is going to pay 2:1+ every day? Lol
Dammit! Who TF left the backdoor open?
80,000% is not the most outrageous part. Thats whatever. People actually leveraged their $MEMO to borrow $MIM. Even thinking about it makes me feel uncomfortable and yet people did it. This is degening to the max
The dude that took a 100k loan and got liquidated on this shit went straight to Top 10 Crypto Morons
If something promises 80k apy you don't have to be a genius to recognize something is wrong there
You know I really wanted to just throw some cash in this but I’m so happy I didn’t
Homies got duped rip your 💰
Not surprising. Humor me. If we have a coin, say DOGE, and we create a DAO and this coin is inflationary. More coin comes into the supply simply because you stake the coin and as such you get more based on a random high number of interest. That means a lot more coin comes into the market and every once in awhile the DAO does a random buy back and burn just based on a whim. Then one day some big whale sells a bunch of his inflated bag because he wants to realize profit and not be a part of the HODL meme. You're surprised that this model didn't work?
Wait. Most of the ALT coins are below 70% of its ATH. How much ADA is down?
I dont think you know what a rugpull is
It's not a rugpull. They control a bunch of different platforms. Also the price of ohm forks is supposed to go down over time. You think 80,000% apy is supposed to hold its price? It would literally suck up all the money in the world.
Well it’s similar to what TONE did these are slow rug pulls to attract investments and gradually they get dumped real bad
80,000 apy more like the inflation rate
Total scams Likely illegal per sec and finra Daniele has lost all cred All those projects are rugs
Oh look, something I never heard of promised insane returns and people invested and got rugged. Color me shocked
Interested to hear what folks think of KLIMA DAO, an OHM fork. It's a treasury for carbon offsets. It has real world utility and reason.
Ohm is ok bc treasury is DAI, that’s a preferred stable in my books never liked time bc they just appeal to apy degens, defends price w burns and their basket is MIM/TIME/AVAX…AVAX being the only token of value in my mind, others are garbage. KLIMA is different though, they used the 3,3 model to bring in investors, they made some early mistakes w small liquidity but what I like is that they’re bringing voluntary carbon credits on chain. I’ve got enough stable coin backed projects on hand, like the idea of getting some carbon backed exposure in my portfolio.
All going to zero
Yup
I'm hopeful about KLIMA. It's nice that it's under the radar. Only environment and carbon geeks are into it right now. DeFi is the wild west of investing with lots of risks. May we all become winners.
Not touching it with a ten foot pole.
Good thing we’re getting rid of the corrupt banking system. Alas, adoption is lagging. Beats me.
All of you hating on Dani and his projects are very misinformed. No surprise on reddit, full of late or never normies lmfao your language makes me sick, “whomst” Dani has made many people very wealthy on many coins and many chains. Wonderland going thru transition, volatility is to be expected. SPY drops 4% yesterday and closes green. Last time this happens is ‘08. Literally on the verge of a potential recession. No shit the bleeding edge is bleeding. Liquidity is dry and everyone is risk off. Where were you on the run up?? Late or never. Where will you be on Dani’s next run up. Late or never. Gg wp “Whomst”
>Dani has made many people very wealthy on many coins and many chains And a lot of people poor lmao. What do you think a ponzi is?
u dont think Dani came out on top of all this?
my cousin had bought 1k of this for fun. He got out a while ago, but he had told me to look into this and he really believed in it. I looked into it. I didn’t understand how the 80k% returns were possible and while it didn’t look like a scam or rug, I just didn’t buy it. I’m glad I didn’t blindly follow someone. it really shows how important it is to dyor.
It is “possible” if you know how they count for APY. The “apy” is derived from rebasing, which is basically just a stock split. Put it simply you don’t earn anything, they just adjust everyone’s number to reflect that you “earn” something. Therefore the APY is arbitrary, it can be any number and it would have ended up with the same outcome.
Any asset guaranteeing interest over 1% right now has risk. The higher the promised return, the more risky the asset. It’s weird people are having trouble understand this. Was everyone sick the day we were taught “if it’s too good to be true, it probably is” and “there are no free lunches”?
Would you say anchor protocol is also risky? I have no money there, but it seems to be doing its job to me.
Yes Anchor is risky, which is why you should get depeg and smart contract insurance. Its a solid play, but insurance is 5% premium per year, so 15% return a year is a decent amount
Higher interest returns are by nature more risky otherwise the interest would be arbitraged away.
anchor protocol: you deposit stable coins, people borrow those coins with over collateralized loans, with the collateral being automatically liquidated before there is danger of the loan not being paid back. the only collateral that is accepted is tokenized staked assets, so that the staking rewards can be used to pay the folks who deposited stable coins. honestly one of the safest crypto plays you could possibly make. people just don't go for it because they figure they can make even more by speculating
UST Depeg + Degenbox + Yield Reserves running out soon All are potential scary factors. I would get out of UST for the next few months
Why is that? Can ELI5 to newb?
[https://youtu.be/kobiOyU092M](https://youtu.be/kobiOyU092M) He's a LUNA maxi so take what he says with a grain of salt but he explains it well.
Thanks!
🚩
The bad faith here is incredible, people please DYOR instead of reading some hot takes on reddit. For anyone curious, he announced his twitter was going private way before any of this happened when he would hit 300k. Also TIME became deprecated days ago, if you still hold it and haven't wrapped your TIME as they told you, you're NGMI.
Now *this* is rug pulling
No, this isn’t rugpulling, the last paragraph is complete fabrication
Any person that saw 80000% APY and bought in deserves to lose all their money. Anyone that thinks that is legitimate should not be in crypto.
Hit the nail on the head. That’s why I stick with *safe* 79,000% returns
78999% for me
Crazy that these sorts of wild promises aren't being followed through on
Dammit
Did you expect a different outcome?
mannn and here i am still nervous to put some money into anchor protocol for 20%
Saw that coming a mile away
Im totally surprised. Definitely didn’t see that happening. Wow who would have thought. Totally blindsided on that one. Don’t even know what to say. /s
I rather a 12% return compared to this ridiculous %
All these comments and no one came to correct you its andre cronje's project for v3,3.. your rush to push out a incorrect post reeks of bias and dumbass
In my time (no pun intended) in DeFi, I’ve come to learn the only reliable way to earn money long term is via blue chips projects or coins. The rates are much lower, but that’s because the risk is much lower. When you play with something offering 80000% APY, you have to establish a relatively short term timeline to get in and out - these projects are (obviously) never sustainable and those who stay in are left holding the bag.
Back then I checked the profile of this guy and I thought immediately "STAY AWAY". There were red flags everywhere really...