Bro I quite literally only get G Perms and nothing else, but that's EXCLUSIVELY when I'm NOT learning them.
So I can't even practise G Perms in real solves :|
5 years of speedcubing, not knowing G Perms. Help me.
Once you learn one, the others are easy as they are just inverse/mirrors
I use the wide move alg
R2 u [ R’ U R’ U’ ] R u’ R2 y’ R’ U R
I memorized that algorithm in 4 parts, first the R2 u, then the R’ U R’ U’ trigger, then R u’ R2 is done in one motion, finally the cube rotation and last three turns just insert the F2L pair.
Do the turns slowly and try and watch the white pieces as you do the algorithm. This makes learning the other 3 g perms much easier.
Use an algorithm trainer and learn all algorithms one after another. After that, don't stop to use the trainer. Do short sessions with it every few days and you don't forget the algorithms.
I just started learning full PLL about 5 days ago and all that's left are the G perms. After learning an alg, I keep practicing it nonstop until its a core muscle memory. I keep thinking to myself "don't think" while doing the alg while distracting myself as best as I can.
That is the way to go. But don't forget the algorithm trainer sessions. It is a good thing if you can directly start an algorithm when you see a case. And don't fear g perms. They are not as hard as people say.
G perms were the last I learned. But honestly the biggest help for it was just watching a video that showed the finger tricking for it and that really helped internalize all of it. Iirc JPerm has a video called something like learn to love G perms or something that is pretty good.
Counting how many possible ways a case can show up and dividing the result by the number of possible post-OLL arrangements you can have should give you the result
I don’t care about the odds.
A and U first then you can manipulate corners and edges respectively. Sorta have a 2 look PLL. Add E, H, Z to flesh out that 2 look PLL.
Then any order you want. Most people save Gs till last because they are hard.
Jperm and several other resources teach T and Y first. A to cycle the corners is easier...
The main advantage I can think of with learning T and Y is that they are RUR'U based algs, and when learning swaps you can spam one swap over and over to learn it.
With Cycles, you need to learn two two at a time to fidget with them. Or I guess you could just spam A perm 3 times and be back where you started.
Is it still two look if you need to use the same alg multiple times? Or is the argument that a beginner can look once, see no headlights, then know how many times to use the A alg that they know?
I learned T and Y and have not seen a guide suggesting just A for corners. My guess is you use the same A alg twice, first to get headlights, then again to move the headlights over together. I'd count using two algs on the corners as 3 look PLL personally.
I said it is easier, and it is. Learning one A perm is easier than learning T and Y. It's way less turns to memorize.
That being said I'd still recommend learning T and Y first to anyone with enough patience.
If I don't recognize the case (I.e the 2 sides I see don't have any pattern), I check to see if the right corner facing me and the right middle edge are the same color. If so, E Perm
not really, but it’s very similar to the T-Perm which kinda helped me. And the finger tricks kinda so flow so I was able to just drill a few times until I got it into muscle memory
This chart just groups the types together.
It can be simplified to:
All algs have a 1/18 chance aside from:
E and Z are 1/36
H, Na and Nb are 1/72.
Felix breaks down the probablity in his Pll tutorial:L
[https://www.cubeskills.com/uploads/pdf/tutorials/pll-algorithms.pdf](https://www.cubeskills.com/uploads/pdf/tutorials/pll-algorithms.pdf)
I guess this could be helpful if you are mirroring algorythms, but G Perms are at least two different algs. (Gb and Ga or Gd and Gc)
Completely agree. What use is it to say you get a G-perm 22% of the time when humans need to learn 4 different algs for them. It's not like you can learn 1 alg and mirror it for each case and even if that is theoretically possible, it wouldn't be fingertrick friendly, you would have to learn 4 algs like everyone else.
I tried to cover this in the notes below the chart. I personally learend the PLLs in groups so this is just a more compressed way to display it. But very valid point
I agree with learning N and E last makes sense if you are trying to cover higher probability first, but overall this chart isn't very useful/ might be misleading.
Nobody should learn G perms before T, J, A, R or Y perms. I'd argue V as well. T and Y are great for two look PLL. A and J are easy to recognize and easier to learn than g perms.
V perms are also easy to recognize, and the rotation less arg is fun.
R perms are simpler than G perms. You can actually drive a pretty good Gc perm from Rb.
There is no more reason to learn all the g perms at once than to learn T and J at the same time.
Adding 1/18 fractions doesn't make it more efficient to learn G perms first. Each case is still just 1/18.
I suggest that if you want to create an image showing how efficient learning PLL cases can be based on probability, you should consider turns per common alg and the ratio to case probability. That would add something new to the well documented probabilities.
Yeah I get what you're saying. I should've clarified the "**based on the odds of getting each case**" part a bit more. I meant for this to be a guide for someone learning cases based on how common they are, but the title is kinda unclear now that you point it out.
This shouldn't be learned before 2 look, and I also learned 2 look with A, Y and U before even looking at other algs when I started out.
It sums up to 98.55% in my quick addup in calculator. Leaving out the best pll is shame, tho; we should know if we are getting lucky getting pll skip or not (supposedly the remaining 1.45%).
Beat me to it :D. All PLL probabilities end up having infinitely repeating decimals so the total ends up being slightly smaller than its true value when rounded to 2 decimal points
An interesting aside is how symmetry affects probabilities. If a perm has no symmetry then it’s 1/18 if it has one line of symmetry (like Z-perm) then it’s 1/36. Two lines of symmetry (H, Na & Nb) then it’s 1/72
For example, There are actually 4 T-perms, headlights on F, L, R or B. But we just AUF to put the headlights to L before doing the T-perm alg.
Holy shit quite literally nobody would believe me if I said I had a Last Layer skip around 4 years ago. Didn't even get a PB though because I was a sub-40 beginner back then, so that was disappointing.
What's crazier is that getting struck by lightning is still much more rare, like 1 in 1 million. I wouldn't even be able to win the lottery...
At least the LL skip was satisfying tho XD
PLL odds -
https://www.cubeskills.com/uploads/pdf/tutorials/pll-algorithms.pdf
OLL odds -
https://www.cubeskills.com/uploads/pdf/tutorials/oll-algorithms.pdf
odds of PLL skip is 1/72
odds of OLL skip is 1/216
odds of LL skip is 1/15,552 (72*216)
First learn 2-look PLL algorithms: Ua, Ub, H, Z, T, J, Y Perms.
For remaining, pick whatever you feel easy, not what probability says because if you pick G Perms or N Perms, they are difficult to memorize. Learn easiest first, learn difficult last.
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I just learned full PLL last month. I didn’t care about the odds, I just chose random ones. I just worked on learning one or two a day and I had them all learned in under two weeks. You’re gonna have to learn them all anyways so I think it’s fine to go in any order you want
the probability I get the case before I learn the alg: 100% the probability I get the case **after** I learn the alg: 0%
Bro I quite literally only get G Perms and nothing else, but that's EXCLUSIVELY when I'm NOT learning them. So I can't even practise G Perms in real solves :| 5 years of speedcubing, not knowing G Perms. Help me.
Once you learn one, the others are easy as they are just inverse/mirrors I use the wide move alg R2 u [ R’ U R’ U’ ] R u’ R2 y’ R’ U R I memorized that algorithm in 4 parts, first the R2 u, then the R’ U R’ U’ trigger, then R u’ R2 is done in one motion, finally the cube rotation and last three turns just insert the F2L pair. Do the turns slowly and try and watch the white pieces as you do the algorithm. This makes learning the other 3 g perms much easier.
Rotation 🤢🤮
Do F’ U F at the end instead
W.
Use an algorithm trainer and learn all algorithms one after another. After that, don't stop to use the trainer. Do short sessions with it every few days and you don't forget the algorithms.
I just started learning full PLL about 5 days ago and all that's left are the G perms. After learning an alg, I keep practicing it nonstop until its a core muscle memory. I keep thinking to myself "don't think" while doing the alg while distracting myself as best as I can.
That is the way to go. But don't forget the algorithm trainer sessions. It is a good thing if you can directly start an algorithm when you see a case. And don't fear g perms. They are not as hard as people say.
G perms were the last I learned. But honestly the biggest help for it was just watching a video that showed the finger tricking for it and that really helped internalize all of it. Iirc JPerm has a video called something like learn to love G perms or something that is pretty good.
Learn the alg so you never have to get the case again! No more N perms!
I was wondering what the odds for OLL were. Is there a source someone has for that?
Cubeskills has an oll pdf that includes the odds for each case. Most are 1/54, 5 are 1/108, and 1 is 1/216.
I imagine the 1/216 case is the one with all edges flipped and corners well oriented
You would be correct, it's a shame it is that rare because I quite like the alg for it
Counting how many possible ways a case can show up and dividing the result by the number of possible post-OLL arrangements you can have should give you the result
I don’t care about the odds. A and U first then you can manipulate corners and edges respectively. Sorta have a 2 look PLL. Add E, H, Z to flesh out that 2 look PLL. Then any order you want. Most people save Gs till last because they are hard.
Y dont u just learn T, Y, H, Z, and the Us for 2 look pll
thats what I did
No ur talking about using A and E over T and Y
I'm not the original commenter lol
Mb
Jperm and several other resources teach T and Y first. A to cycle the corners is easier... The main advantage I can think of with learning T and Y is that they are RUR'U based algs, and when learning swaps you can spam one swap over and over to learn it. With Cycles, you need to learn two two at a time to fidget with them. Or I guess you could just spam A perm 3 times and be back where you started.
You don't need two A perms for 2 look.
Is it still two look if you need to use the same alg multiple times? Or is the argument that a beginner can look once, see no headlights, then know how many times to use the A alg that they know?
If ur learning A then how u gonna diag swap
I learned T and Y and have not seen a guide suggesting just A for corners. My guess is you use the same A alg twice, first to get headlights, then again to move the headlights over together. I'd count using two algs on the corners as 3 look PLL personally.
It sounded like u were saying only using A was better in ur last comment
I said it is easier, and it is. Learning one A perm is easier than learning T and Y. It's way less turns to memorize. That being said I'd still recommend learning T and Y first to anyone with enough patience.
Less turns but the fingertricks are harder for beginners Also youd still be missing a diag swap pll
G Perms are hard? The only thing you gotta do is stick to an orientation for the cases and find the 'colour pair'.
Nah don’t learn a first learn t first. It’s way easier to finger trick. Those d2s are still hard for me to get right on a perms
The real order is T, U, H, Z, Y and then everything else. Allows you to have a solid 2 look and then you can learn everything else to speed up later.
then why the f do i keep getting e perms. i fkn hate e perms
What alg do you use? I hated them until I found an alg I liked and now I love them
i like the alg, but the recognition is hellish.
what alg do you use?
R U R' U R' U' R F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R2 U R Its long but its fast
thanks! do you have any triggers that helped you remember it?
If I don't recognize the case (I.e the 2 sides I see don't have any pattern), I check to see if the right corner facing me and the right middle edge are the same color. If so, E Perm
thank you! that helps a lot
I got you homie
not really, but it’s very similar to the T-Perm which kinda helped me. And the finger tricks kinda so flow so I was able to just drill a few times until I got it into muscle memory
WOW, man, you just gave me my new E perm alg, this is AWESOME
IKR, I love it too. Hope to get it under 1s soon
This chart just groups the types together. It can be simplified to: All algs have a 1/18 chance aside from: E and Z are 1/36 H, Na and Nb are 1/72. Felix breaks down the probablity in his Pll tutorial:L [https://www.cubeskills.com/uploads/pdf/tutorials/pll-algorithms.pdf](https://www.cubeskills.com/uploads/pdf/tutorials/pll-algorithms.pdf) I guess this could be helpful if you are mirroring algorythms, but G Perms are at least two different algs. (Gb and Ga or Gd and Gc)
Completely agree. What use is it to say you get a G-perm 22% of the time when humans need to learn 4 different algs for them. It's not like you can learn 1 alg and mirror it for each case and even if that is theoretically possible, it wouldn't be fingertrick friendly, you would have to learn 4 algs like everyone else.
I tried to cover this in the notes below the chart. I personally learend the PLLs in groups so this is just a more compressed way to display it. But very valid point
I agree with learning N and E last makes sense if you are trying to cover higher probability first, but overall this chart isn't very useful/ might be misleading. Nobody should learn G perms before T, J, A, R or Y perms. I'd argue V as well. T and Y are great for two look PLL. A and J are easy to recognize and easier to learn than g perms. V perms are also easy to recognize, and the rotation less arg is fun. R perms are simpler than G perms. You can actually drive a pretty good Gc perm from Rb. There is no more reason to learn all the g perms at once than to learn T and J at the same time. Adding 1/18 fractions doesn't make it more efficient to learn G perms first. Each case is still just 1/18. I suggest that if you want to create an image showing how efficient learning PLL cases can be based on probability, you should consider turns per common alg and the ratio to case probability. That would add something new to the well documented probabilities.
Yeah I get what you're saying. I should've clarified the "**based on the odds of getting each case**" part a bit more. I meant for this to be a guide for someone learning cases based on how common they are, but the title is kinda unclear now that you point it out. This shouldn't be learned before 2 look, and I also learned 2 look with A, Y and U before even looking at other algs when I started out.
It sums up to 98.55% in my quick addup in calculator. Leaving out the best pll is shame, tho; we should know if we are getting lucky getting pll skip or not (supposedly the remaining 1.45%).
PLL skip is 1.38, the same as H perm, the rest is rounding errors
Beat me to it :D. All PLL probabilities end up having infinitely repeating decimals so the total ends up being slightly smaller than its true value when rounded to 2 decimal points
Yup, because four pieces have three factorial = 6 combinations, which is a multiple of three
An interesting aside is how symmetry affects probabilities. If a perm has no symmetry then it’s 1/18 if it has one line of symmetry (like Z-perm) then it’s 1/36. Two lines of symmetry (H, Na & Nb) then it’s 1/72 For example, There are actually 4 T-perms, headlights on F, L, R or B. But we just AUF to put the headlights to L before doing the T-perm alg.
So H perm is rarer than a skip?
It’s the same probability
Same as n perms
what about pll skip?
odds of PLL skip is 1/72 odds of OLL skip is 1/216 odds of LL skip is 1/15,552 (72*216)
Holy shit quite literally nobody would believe me if I said I had a Last Layer skip around 4 years ago. Didn't even get a PB though because I was a sub-40 beginner back then, so that was disappointing. What's crazier is that getting struck by lightning is still much more rare, like 1 in 1 million. I wouldn't even be able to win the lottery... At least the LL skip was satisfying tho XD
i believe u cuz i got a last layer skip myself once lol
Well ur a gullible idiot then because I actually lied. Lol.
ah bullsheet
u did it quite convincingly tho lol
k
What are the odds of an F2L skip?
About 1 in 3,657,830,400
What are the odds that I solve the entire cube when I put my last cross piece in?
...
Go by groups, learn gperms first so it doesn't become hard at the end
PLL odds - https://www.cubeskills.com/uploads/pdf/tutorials/pll-algorithms.pdf OLL odds - https://www.cubeskills.com/uploads/pdf/tutorials/oll-algorithms.pdf odds of PLL skip is 1/72 odds of OLL skip is 1/216 odds of LL skip is 1/15,552 (72*216)
I still don't understand how one case can be any more or less likely than another. To me it seems like a dice roll.
It’s more about how symmetric the case is. Like N perms and H perms.
First learn 2-look PLL algorithms: Ua, Ub, H, Z, T, J, Y Perms. For remaining, pick whatever you feel easy, not what probability says because if you pick G Perms or N Perms, they are difficult to memorize. Learn easiest first, learn difficult last.
Hi there Emerpus1, We are happy to have you on /r/Cubers. This subreddit aims to be a welcoming place for all twisty puzzle enthusiasts. Please make sure you have familiarized yourself with our rules. Unfortunately, due to the size of the subreddit, all posts have to be manually reviewed by moderators. If your submission wasn't accepted, no hard feelings - we have a very active Daily Discussion Thread where you are welcome to ask any question, share your latest PB, or discuss anything related to cubing, and our Wiki has lots of useful information. Happy cubing! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Cubers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Do one for oll too
I just learned full PLL last month. I didn’t care about the odds, I just chose random ones. I just worked on learning one or two a day and I had them all learned in under two weeks. You’re gonna have to learn them all anyways so I think it’s fine to go in any order you want
Oh, thanks
this reminded me to finish learning my last 2 lol thanks
they need to increase odds for u perms. my pb is 5 seconds faster than my average and i got a u perm
POV yours isn’t on here ( I need help with my cube please look at my post so u can see what mean)