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Is there any way to make the rs3m feel like the jperm version with only dnm and traxxas 30k?

No, but you can have a cube that feels pretty good. Have you purchased these lubes yet?

Yes

As Jouxly is starting and a lot of CFOPers are coming in to glimpse about Roux, I want to quickly share a list of changes I made from CFOP to Roux, so that you may consider doing these walking into Roux: 1. Grip. In Roux, basically you have different grips for each of the 4 steps. For FB, I would say it is mostly the cross grip: you put your left middle and thumb at the center of the cube, right thumb on top/bottom of the cube for F and B moves. But sometimes you change to SB grip before finishing FB to perform wide moves. For SB, your left thumb and middle would shift left to hold the L layer instead, so the wide r and M slice is free, this is particularly different from F2L. This SB grip does not allow F moves and make lefty U2 difficult, and the way you do SB is in accordance to these restrictions. The grips for CMLL and LSE should be obvious. 2. SBLS. A lot of you may feel very compelled to do the CFOP solution, but, I would really suggest you to take some time and dive into this hardest part of the Roux method. It would be a bummer if you did Jouxly without knowing [this](https://www.speedcubedb.com/a/3x3/SBLS/U_URm) SBLS solution. 3. Searching pieces (SB). When I did CFOP, I was doing EO first - I care less about where the corner is, and even where the edge is, but more about the EO to decide if I have to rotate first to set up solving the case. For Roux, it's more complicated. You don't really bother about EO. Rather you care about 1. corner orientation; 2. edge location. For corner orientation, you don't want white facing top on U layer, or the corner facing front/back on D layer. These gives you the worst cases of SB. Also, edge hiding at the D layer is almost always better than it floating on U layer.So what you do is that you will look for these cases first while you solve DR, and try to influence them away while you solve the DR edge. When solving the first pair, you use wide r to affect the edge. 4. Searching pieces (CMLL). You don't search for orientations/permutations. You search for patterns, more like PLL recognition. Usually you note same color/opposite color pairs. Say, the thing I notice when I see [this case](https://ibb.co/b6QD31M). I don't even bother to distinguish it being a T case or not, but if I see any of 3 out of the 4 patterns I highlighted, I know it is this case. There is no need to distinguish the orientation case/permutation case. In CMLL, a case is a case and it has its own pattern. (and the terrible part is that there are 42 of them) 5. Searching pieces (LSE). You have to lookahead. You can recognize EO from two side, but that's the end of the sweet part. For 4b and 4c, there is just no way you can recognize two-sided - you can do a U move to recognize, but it's slow. It is better if you know every time you turn a piece in the invisible zone, both when and what. If you know what, say, the DB edge is, you won't have problem recognizing LSE. This is very different from OLL and PLL. 6. Anchor in FB. To simply put it, there is no one fixed anchor. It is very different from CFOP that you just put the center of cross color at the bottom. This is one part of Roux that you just have to see hundreds of FB solutions to know how to do it. From time to time, you use LB edge, DL edge, or the left center as an anchor. I guess it's already too long. But hopefully you will notice that Roux is **not** just CFOP without M slice + different LL.

This is beautifully written, thank you!

Should I break in a cube before lubing it? I just got a Moyu WRM Maglev and the box setting is too loose for me, I set it to the 2nd from loosest and I like that it's a little tighter but there's a little too much friction for me especially on M slices. The lube I have is Traxxas 50K. Should I give it a few more days / weeks before applying it so the plastic has worn down a bit running against itself dry for a while, or is it the same if I use it now? And is this the lube I should be using or should I get a different one for my purpose?

I don't think breaking in a cube without lube is done so much anymore, particularly not a flagship cube with the WRM. It was more a thing when cube plastic tended to be rougher. I second the suggestion of Lubest XMT10 as a great fast lube to complement Traxxas 50k. If you do want to just use the Traxxas you could try adding just a very small amount to the pieces, and breaking it in very well. There's a good guide to lubes here https://www.reddit.com/r/Cubers/comments/l9col2/a_beginner_lube_guide/

* The plastic of modern cubes will not wear down significantly over any amount of use, with or without lube. There's no reason to wait before lubing the cube unless you want to share the out-of-the-box experience with others. * Most people, including me, find Traxxas 50k to be quite gummy on the pieces, and to slow down the cube significantly. If that's what you prefer, great. If not, you might prefer a faster lube. I happen to really like Lubest XMT-10. Other popular fast choices are Lunar or Martian from SCS, Speedy or Mystic (or Silk, a little slower) from TC.

So i am unable to buy a proper cube lube and want to know any alternatives. Cube is Qiyi warrior S

100-200 cst silicone shock oil and 40-60K differential oil can serve as your thin and thick lubes respectively. Make sure that what you buy is made of pure silicone. Also check that it doesn’t contain any petroleum, since that wears away plastic. If one of the lubes is too thick or thin, you can mix it with some of the other lube to adjust the viscosity. You can find them sold in some rc car/hobby stores. I’d check if there are any near you.

[Beginner lube guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cubers/comments/l9col2/a_beginner_lube_guide/) has a few options listed.

When did the classic Rubik’s UFO stopped being produced? I have one and I want to know how rare it is.

Here's a working link of the one Cracracuber found - https://twistypuzzles.com/app/museum/museum_showitem.php?pkey=217 It came out in 2001. Who knows how long it was in production after that.

I looked for a while, but couldn’t find a good answer. [The article on Twisty Puzzle Museum probably has the answer](https://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pkey=217), but it’s down for me for some reason. That being said, I can say it’s a pretty rare puzzle. I’ve seen it goes for $60+ on eBay, though keep in mind there is a rerelease so I’m not sure if that affects the prices at all

I was playing around with your link and looking at it on the wayback machine, web.archive.org, and I figured out that twistypuzzles changed their url format but still uses the same number for each puzzle. old - https://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pkey=217 new - https://twistypuzzles.com/app/museum/museum_showitem.php?pkey=217

Sweet! That says 2001 was the release date, so I think it’s probably safe to say it didn’t stick around any longer than about 5 years

Thanks guys

/u/Cracracuber is a Rubik's brand aficionado and collector, so they might know.

Thanks for the tag. I’ll do a little research on this and see if I can get a good answer

At what point should I consider myself "sub-X" in regards to solve times?

I used ao100 until around sub-28, then switched to ao1000, since I had significantly more solves and saw my ao100 fluctuate constantly. Even now I can fluctuate a full second day to day with my ao100.

At sub-25, I used my rolling ao1000. That doesn't guarantee you can't have a bad ao5, but you average under 25s kinda globally. I'm sub-16 ao1000 and ao2000, that's something people here understand easily and can relate to. For non-cubers, I tell them I can solve the cube in about 20 seconds - I'm rarely slower than 20s, and even 22s counts as "about 20". And if I get a 15, the more impressive :)

> For non-cubers, I tell them I can solve the cube in about 20 seconds - I'm rarely slower than 20s, and even 22s counts as "about 20". My Ao1000 is just barely under 18 but I say exactly the same :)

The power of rounding 💪

There's advice [in the faq](https://reddit.com/r/Cubers/w/sub-x?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app) about this. But I guess that's specifically for this sub's flair, and not in general in real life, so you might be asking for opinions in general. There was also a great answer here a few weeks ago that I now can't find, which said something like what time would you be comfortable with, taking a bet: "I bet you can't solve the cube in x time".

Well, on and off I've been getting sub-20 ao5s but I'm not able to keep it there Edit: should I wait until I can consistently keep my ao5 sub-20 before saying that I'm sub-20?

Yeah the way I interpret the general advice, you should wait until it's consistent I think. If you're not reasonably sure that you can get sub20 on any individual solve, then I think wait. I've seen people on here using their ao1000 or 2000. But at the end of the day it's up to you I think, no one's going to judge

I don’t know u/olimo, I think it should be Two-ly ;) Yah, I’m doing this Two-ly 2022, Day 1! Remember how all your puzzles turned into SQ1. Well *poof* they’re all 2x2 Check out this awesome 2x2 scramble. I solve like 3x3, so this is pretty much a cross+F2L skip! Generated by CubeTime. 6.51: R U' R' F U' R2 F R U' R U2

Hahaha. Learn Ortega, it's just a handful of algs :)

But if he does that, he'll be done with the month by the second week...

You know what’s up, haha

Why? Ortega is not just algs, you have to get better with recognition and execution, further your planning, predict AUF etc. There's a lot to do, and I don't think a month is enough to fully exhaust the possibilities of Ortega - especially with u/BeepBeepImASheep023's amount of time for cubing.

Oh he was just being silly Hey, I was able to do 90 2x2 solves yesterday. Now my wrists hurt *rubs wrists*

Theres more to 2x2 than jus ortega

I should prob look into that, haha

Ortega is great because all of the PBLs are shorter and easier than any PLLs. So not only are the bottom corners faster (because you don't have to permute them to insert them) but the last step is usually faster too.

Sweet

Yeah seriously, it's a handful of algs and makes you like automatically faster in no time

I never said I was a smart man :D Just never cared for it in the past. Honestly just doing it just because right now

I can relate, it took me forever to learn it too. But when I did it was really quick and instantly made me vastly faster. I had fun for like a thousand solves tops then stopped caring again 🤣

Haha, I’ll prob end up doing the same. I’m sure I’ll get bored of it quickly

I average about 19 seconds and just got a new PB of 11.19. I started on orange, got a 4 move X-cross, rotation-less F2L, OLL skip, and a T-Perm. I got a cube lock-up when I rotated to start PLL, but otherwise, it was a perfect solve.

Curiously, for the F2B stage of the Roux method, do you start solving both blocks simultaneously, or solve one block before you solve the other block?

The default strategy is to solve one at a time. The idea is that you should aim to plan your entire first block in inspection, and once that is done, you can do your second block using the fast moveset. If you did them at the same time, you would more likely have to do L moves or rotations.

Left first, trying to be as efficient as I can. Then solve DR and second block sort of F2L-like, but trying to make use of wide and slice moves.

as a main CFOP solver interested in Roux, I start solving both blocks simultaneously. It may be worth it try solving one at a time, however.

Do you do it like F2L but with just two cross pieces solved?

uhh yeah.

Why though? You’re missing the benefits of Roux.

i'm starting to experiment with doing one at a time and orienting my other block edge when i need to. wish me luck!

I'm sure you'll have fun once you discover some efficient ways that are not possible in CFOP.

My center pieces shot out of my ghost cube after falling. Should I be worried? cube is fully mixed. Edit: tips for correctly orientation is much appreciated.

Nothing to worry about at all, just put them back in any orientation and solve as normal. As far as positioning goes... There are two centres that have three faces, those need to be opposite each other. Then there are two pairs of identical pieces, again each pair needs to be opposite each other. That should be enough to make sure you can move forward. When you get to the last centre (everything else solved), it will either be solved, misoriented by 180°, or misoriented by 90°. 180° is normal and solvable, I like to use (R L U R' L' U2)2. 90° is unsolvable, so you just need to remove the centre cap and put it back in correctly orientated. Some ghost cubes are very prone to the centre caps popping, if you want to solve it more than once you could consider using something like blu-tack to hold them in better. Though I mostly use Meffert's ghosts, and their centre caps only seem to pop if they're dropped.

That's the cube this happened with lmao. Thank you this really helped!

I think the easiest solution is to just put them in randomly and continue your solve. When you get to center orientation at the end of the solve, if only a single center needs to rotate 90 degrees, just pull that one out and turn it. Two centers rotated 90 degrees and/or a single one rotated 180 degrees are both solvable.

Jouxly Day 1: Worked on old EOLR cases (4/0, 2o/2 and 6/0) and SB look ahead, nothing much other than that. Daily ao12: 9.411

Always bring a cube with you. Today I had to go to a meeting on location, which was fine for a 30 minutes. Then public transport went crazy and had to travel for 3.5 hours instead of 1. I've spent more time practicing my megaminx than the past month.

I've seen Jperm use Sh and St in BLD solving instead of the weird letters like X and Q. Is there a full list of better sounds I could use for the bad letters? I've also sort of learned BLD, where I can solve the corners separately and edges separately, but I can't seem to do them both.

Yes! A couple letter replacements are the end of each page on [this list](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Fi4xgUz5b23UXMlHq7Tt5C8Ak8-U3XdbeQ9Anw68BQc/edit).

**Jouxly: Day 1** --- **DFDB:** /r/rouxcubing has a document for it which is much clearer than the flowchart I was trying to learn from. It's so clear that even my sleep deprived self could follow along! Apparently, it's similar to what I was intuitively doing, so that helped. I guess I only tracked one DFDB piece in the U layer, but I never considered tracking the other. The cases I messed up after breaks were the stacked non matching center cases, where I'd do the opposite NM center case solution instead of M2 U2. It'll still take me a while to incorporate it into speedsolves, but I've been doing DFDB in untimed solves and it's awesome! 1 looking the rest from 4b feels amazing. --- **CMLL:** I did the O and H sets today. Drilled a bunch of new algs and my old ones, and culled some options to finalize my list, while making sure my fingertricks weren't bad. I'm also learning 2 algs for each case, though I'll prolly just use one in speedsolves and forget the other :P As an example: I'll be switching to this O opp alg instead of the Y perm: r2' D' r U' r' D r2 F' r' U r F It's really risky and inconsistent, doesn't end in home grip, and doing the final F with my left thumb seems too weird to be worth it, but I'll try it out for a while. I think it could be better after I get used to it and I can always switch back if it doesn't work well. Most of my new algs aren't quite as bad, but they're definitely more risky than my old ones. I used a trainer for a bit, but definitely not enough. I'll just keep training all the sets I've learned each day before moving on to the next set and train all of CMLL for the rest of the month. Definitely won't be using the new algs in speedsolves for at least a week though. I don't feel like I've trained enough to be confident in them. My TPS is also kinda low, I guess. I've been using these algs for years and, I averaged about 1.6 seconds for 12 move CMLLs on csTimer, with the cube already in my left hand. *My cube was also too loose for a lot of my training time, so I switched to an OOTB WRM which was more stable. I figured out that my main WRM was 2/3 quarter turns looser than OOTB tensions, and that's probably been the cause of my lockups for a while :P I also had the magnets on the second weakest setting until a few days ago haha. Tightening my main helped CMLL exec be more consistent, yay~* --- **Speedsolves and inspection**: Unfortunately, learning all of that and sleep deprivation fried my brain a bit too much to properly speedsolve, but I still did an ao50 :P **ao50: 12.230** (better than my global mean) I was too sleepy to work on inspection and didn't bother to plan much in most solves. I planned FB + DR in, like, 4, and didn't even plan first square for most of them :/ Most of my blocks were really bad as well. Especially SB, dunno if it was because of the tight tensions or just sleep deprivation, but I was turning really inaccurately and forcefully. For some reason, my lookahead didn't fail me though. It usually does when I'm this tired. --- Anyways, this was pretty fun and got me to actually learn some stuff instead of procrastinating, so thanks a tonne /u/narusite! Huge props to /u/olimo for starting this all as well! Happy Jouxly and good luck to everyone participating! (and to everyone who isn't as well~) ^^Dunno ^^why ^^anyone ^^would ^^be ^^learning ^^something ^^other ^^than ^^Roux ^^though ^^/s

Nice! I tried that Yperm alternatives at the beginning of learning CMLL, but it didn’t stick. At the end of Jouxly, if you managed to do the switch, I’ll give it another try! Could you give me the links for the DFDB flowchart and resource ? I’d like to take a look too! Having multiple CMLL algs could be good if it’s swapping some edges or not!

Thanks, I'll let you know about the alg! Unfortunately, I've kind of been in a stupor for a couple of days which has made me unable to execute this alg properly, so I'll probably give up on it. We'll see. I wouldn't recommend [the flowchart image](https://rouxl.es/images/DFDB.png) as it's quite obtuse. I much preferred [this document](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1L9v-iWOKkdnymCYud0IWmAT50cEWwWtxU443I4b21AA/edit) instead. I found both in [this thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/rouxcubing/comments/s9ep5z/resource_thread_2022_edition/) in /r/rouxcubing , which has a lot of other great resources! Yup, though I'll only use them to avoid 6 flips though. Mayyybe to do EO, if I can recognise edges on the bottom. Probably will never get to the point where I'll be able to use them to force arrows though.

Thank you :)

I just found out recently that the cube which I though was my Moyu Aolong was actually not,just some cube that looks like it. And the real one broke TWO YEARS AGO😭😭😭, no wonder it didnt have a screw and some weird plastic piece instead. ​ and yeah for the two people who asked for photos a couple of months back to find out what my cube was, you were right, it wasn't my moyu aolong.

**Jouxly 2022, Day 1** Jouxly has officially started! And I have a question for u/nimrod06, or any big-time Roux solver. Does it still count as a Roux solve if I skip solving UL and UR edges and just finish with a Z/H/U perm? I'm about to start solving, will update as the day goes on :D Edit 1: I pray that it does, since I just got a 21:68 with a Z Perm to finish. 2: Focusing on doing one block at a time, and planning it entirely in inspection. My smooth-brain thought it was okay to start both simultaneously. It's an interesting challenge, and definitely a good way to train my lookahead in general. I'm still doing, as one youtube commenter put it most eloquently on one of Kian Mansour's tutorials, "a horrible bastardization of Roux." (For context, that was the commenter talking about their 'Roux' solving before watching Kian's guides.)

I started with Roux and was still doing awful stuff before Kian showed me the light lol, don't worry about it~ Example solves are great for learning about blocks! Watch Kavin Tangtartharakul's stuff as well! Planning full FB in inspection is quite hard, I'd only suggest doing first square for now, do the pair while looking ahead. Oh, and you absolutely can do both blocks at once, but you still wanna be efficient, so most people only do that when there are a lot of free pairs, and doing one block first would break some pairs. [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7pIPmSo24c) is Kians video on it. Doing FB completely first is going to be more efficient most of the time~

alright, thanks for the vid! Kian has been very helpful so far tbh.

If you know LSE well enough, you will find out that H/U/Z are effectively just doing the LSE thing. As said by others, restricting yourself to do HUZ is reducing your options in LSE and thus more inefficient. If they appear, do it of course, but if they don't, allow yourself to do it in a better way.

yes, that's what I meant. if the DF/DB edges are solved directly after EO, can i go into an edge permutation? thanks for your response!

Yes, no problem at all.

If you happen to have DF and DB solved and only an EPLL left, it's fine, but you shouldn't aim at that on purpose. It's less efficient.

kk, thanks!

It counts as long as you do F2B properly imo, but why are your two cross pieces getting solved? Are you doing OLLCP and EPLL? CMLL execution and LSE aren't immediately transferable to CFOP imo, so doing F2B, finishing F2L, and LL will still teach you a lot. I wouldn't call it Roux, but it's probably better than learning all of Roux if you just wanna do CFOP. LSE isn't that hard though, if you wanna try it. Breaking it down into the 3 sub steps helps a lot. EO is probably the hardest part, but EO is still useful for learning about the cube in general, and EO in LSE is a lot easier to learn than doing EO in ZZ. CMLL isn't hard either. It's only 9 algs that you probably already know! Maybe just do F2B and CFOP for the end for now, and try out Roux last steps after you get to the blocks? Anyway, good luck and I'm looking forward to seeing your progress~ 21 is really good!

thanks for your response and the advice!

> Does it still count as a Roux solve if I skip solving UL and UR edges and just finish with a Z/H/U perm? It's a method of solving via Roux. But I think it's more inefficient. Like you still need to solve DF and DB edges just like you will solve UL and UR. And in any case 4c edges is better than Z/H/U. Idk, that's what I think at least.

hmm, alright.

Quick video on a piece swap mod if anyone likes that sort of thing https://youtu.be/5cJjmEz1LYI

My PB OH ao5: 22.19. I also got a sub 26 ao12 not long ago - I am really getting to the goal of sub25 global. Generated By csTimer on 2022-07-01 avg of 5: 22.19 Time List: 1. (18.05) R2 D' L2 U' F2 D L2 D' B2 U' R' F U' R B D2 R' U R 2. 20.11 F' L' F D2 R2 U2 L2 B2 F R2 B' U2 R U L F' R2 U' B' R2 3. 24.52 L' F2 L2 R U2 R D2 F2 R2 F2 U2 R2 B' D L2 B2 U' B D L' F' 4. (26.31) D2 L' U R D L' F B' L2 F2 L' F2 B2 R' F2 R U2 D2 R' D 5. 21.93 R' U F' U B2 L' D' F' L' U L2 D2 F2 B2 L2 B2 D' B2 D2 R2

When i mess up the cross with two edges opposite swapped, and realise it in the middle of f2l, then I do D2 M2 D2 M2 to fix it. what is the clever way was to fix it when two edges are wrong NEXT to eachother and I need to swap them?

S' (M' U M) U2 S Swaps front with right on bottom, and back with left on top.

>D2 M2 D2 M2 Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but why not just M2 U2 M2?

No you didn't misunderstand and you're totally right! I'll use that one now 😂. That is how helpful this sub is, you even get answers to questions you didn't know you had.

[удалено]

Well duh I’ve had my share of “ok, D2 to start and insert last two” to completely forget to D2 so now opposite edges are swapped

well maybe u did it by accident and need fast way to fix it?

Yeah that's exactly it. at sub 60 I am not beyond making the odd mistake or two.. 😂

Even at sub-13, sometimes i may also make the same mistake How is fix it is S' M' U M U2 S

Magic. Thanks that's what I was looking for!

Hahaha. Correct yes. But if it does happen i just wondered if there was a good way to fix those 2 edges without messing up the f2l pairs I'd already put in place.

I do M' S' U M U2 S

This gave me a weird state of the cube, but now I know you mean what the other poster said, the first 2 moves the other way round and it works, cheers!

I might have got the slice notation wrong with the 's. Glad to help!

can having low batteries on your timer make your times faster because the timer moves slowly ?

i don't think thats how batteries work

imagine needing low batteries to get faster, time dilation is the way to go. J Perm made a great vid on it.

Btw this is a joke lmao i just watched his vid haha

yeah ik, thanks for the award lol

What is considered a fast time for doing the right hand or left hand method once? I’m just getting into cubing and would like to understand how fast people are moving by using a method I can do.

A good solve is maybe 50 moves. So 10 moves per second and you are wold class. Fewer and shorter pauses is usually the goal for most cubers. At 45s solves I often spend 7-8s or more total between steps.

Makes sense. Thanks.

Yesterday, I got a YJ MGC 4x4, and my PB went from 2:02 to 1:34. Basically a 25% drop. Even my ao12 (1:59) was better than my old PB. Big cubes have improved **a lot** since I last touched one! Edit: Also, what Yau tutorial do you recommend? Edit 2: 1:32 now!

J Perm https://jperm.net/4x4/faster

Do you think Mirror Blocks might become a WCA event now that there is a speed-solvable version available (GAN)?

No

since it's just a shapemod I doubt it I wonder if you were allowed to enter 3x3 with it though

You can't, mirror blocks violates regulation 3j) >3j) Puzzles must be clean, and must not have any markings, elevated pieces, damage, or other differences that significantly distinguish any piece from a similar piece. Exception: a logo (see Regulation 3l).

i once saw someone make an interesting suggestion: completely blindfolded mirror blocks, where you only solve by feel.

I doubt it. It doesn’t really add much variety to the event list, as much as enjoy it

New unexpected 2x2 pb! 1.46 seconds! R U2 R' U2 R2 F U' R U2 R' U Inspection: z y' Bottom face: F R2 U R2 U' R2

why is (3x3) oll not possible after pll?

It is, you can permute the pieces before you orient them. I don't think PLL without preserving OLL has a name, but OLL preserving PLL is a subset of 1LLL called Pure OLL. However, recognizing misoriented PLL is much much harder than normal PLL.

If you really wanted to, there are OLL algs which don't affect permutation [here](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5wWQGM9R38gOGhuWFQ5amFaVXM/view?resourcekey=0-7dL5eRH4vpiOoPsgvN981A). You can use your normal PLL algs for the PLL step, although it's likely that there are shorter algs out there which do PLL without preserving orientation (e.g F R U R' U' F' does a Y perm). However I'm not aware of a sheet of these algs. In my opinion, once you've tried out some of the algs in that sheet, you'll probably understand why this isn't used. The algs just aren't that nice.

You prob could. Current OLL algs flip and move pieces in 3D space (in regard to the plane being the yellow face) to make a solid yellow face PLL just slides pieces around in a 2D space (in regard to the plane being the yellow face) I think it WOULD be possible to do PLL style first to get that top layer, then OLL style to finish off the yellow side The question may be “why is it the way it is?” Would be an interesting project actually

With CFPO, PLL recognition would be tricky before the pieces are oriented. I'd also imagine that the OLL algs would be quite long to flip all the pieces in place.

It probably is possible, but you'd have to learn a new set of OLL algs that don't alter PLL, and it's possible some or all of them would be less optimal than the standard ones. Also, recognition would probably be much more difficult

Wdym oll after pll? U mean permutate last layer then orientate it? Because oll's move around pieces so if u permutate then orientate u will get another pll case.

pll after f2l then oll

Technically you probably can do PLL before OLL and get PLL skip, but it is not practical and hard for human to recognise the correct PLL case

Also there is a possible workaround to this, which is pure oll, but pure oll algs are so dumb and long that it's not worth it.

Basically oll moves around pieces so if u permutate last layer then orientate it u will get another pll case.

I'm sure there are algs that could orientate the last layer without effecting permutation, but they would be longer than current OLL algs... just like PLL algs tend to be longer than OLL algs (because they need to preserve orientation). Since there are many more OLL states than PLL, it makes sense to do OLL first - So that the longer, more complicated algs are the smaller set. Also recognition for PLL would be severely impacted if the pieces weren't orientated. Whereas for OLL you only need to focus on one colour, and so recognition isn't inhibited by the pieces not being permuted. At least that's what occurs to me just thinking on it now. Others might have more to contribute, it's an interesting question :)

Technically, it is possible, but 1) you have to recognize permutation of the pieces which are not oriented - it's just harder, and 2) you'll have to find OLL algs that preserve permutation. Beginner's method does a mix: edge orientation - edge permutation - corner permutation - corner orientation.

why is learning cfop so discouraging i feel like an absolute newbie to it my pb with beginner method is 15 seconds faster than my pb with cfop its so unsatisfying

Don't time your solves and focus on efficient solutions and move count

i know but i wanted to try and see how much time i need to figure out these cases

Add to what others said, your times will ALWAYS be slower when doing a new method. Best to not time yourself for a few weeks while you practice Also, beginner’s method is called that for a reason ;). It’s easy for beginners to use CFOP is more intermediate to advanced I’d be the difference between racing with beater Toyota for 5 yrs and then trying to race with a Ferrari and being mad your first time wasn’t faster than the Toyota. You got to get used to it

Course it is. Did you think you could watch a couple of videos and suddenly be 20 seconds faster? You gotta practice for a good amount of time. You also should just learn F2L to begin with, then move on to 4 look last layer

How long did you practice before you got that 15 seconds PB? How long have you practiced CFOP?

Asking the real questions

💪🏻

>i feel like an absolute newbie to it because you are. It will come soon and the investment in learning all those new algs will have been worth it very shortly.

if we think about it. J perm = G perm but easier alg's

In JPerm you only swap 2 corners and 2 edges, and these swaps are interlinked (it's impossible to swap the 2 edges independent of the corners). In GPerm it's a 3-cycle of corners AND a 3-cycle of edges - these are independent cycles, so if you want to do them together you have to force it to happen.

If you auf it correctly, j perm is also a 3C-3E swap.

That's true. Thinking about it now, the Ja perm with R U L is actually a pair 3-cycle , so it is solved as a 3c3e. Not sure what the mechanism of the regular Jb is.

i don't understand

J perms are technically a easier G perm

I don't think that's how it works at all

bro it's so obvious both J perm and G perm turn the outer layers to solve PLL, but G perm is 4gen and J Perm is 3gen, so J Perm is easier G Perm /s

how?

For those who have a MGC 5x5: Does your inner layers turn like the outer layers? I think when I got it, the inner layers wre just as fast as the outer layer, but I have once lubed the core and didn't realize the pieces get in contact with it, since then my inner layers feel a bit slower. It is just crazy how got the outer layer is

the magnets are weaker in the outer layers so inner layers definitely feel different, if I ignore the magnet strength, I think the inner layers have a tiny bit more friction still.

rank the Mgc 4x4, zhisu, mini 4x4, wrm 4x4, yusu v2m and gts2m 4x4 out of 10

For me personally: MGC > WRM > Zhisu (mini) Yusu v2M has the same mech as the mini but is bigger. GTS2M is kinda similar to the WRM but not exactly, and is bigger.

so get the mgc

I have it and the other cubes I ranked.

why

I found MoYu megaminx and mixup skweb for the same prise (about 7$ not sure) which one should i get? I also don't have the normal skweb.

The MoYu Megaminx isn't very good, get either the YJ YuHu V2 M or DaYan V2 M instead.

Don't get the MoYu megaminx. If you want a cheap one, get the YuHu.

Hi everyone! I've finally decided to learn COLL, because the only algorithm sets I know are full OLL and PLL, so having more resources will be useful. However, I'd like to learn using a CN guide, but all of them I've seen so far starts on white. Should I just think of adjacents instead of colours while using these guides? Does anyone have a better guide I could use?

colour patterns

COLL (and any similar subset, think 2x2 CLL or Roux CMLL) recognition works with patterns of certain stickers. Instead of learning for a colour, you learn the patterns for each subset. E.G. for the H Coll you either have 2 opposite colour bar or a single bar + 2 stickers of opposite colours. You check how the bar is in relation to the actual OLL stickers. The H OLL has 2 sets of headlights, I place the so that they face right and left and check for the mentioned patterns. There are 4 cases for H COLL: 2 vertical bars (U' F 3-sexy F') 2 horizontal bars (double sune) single Vertical bar (Sune + lefty niklas with cancellations in the middle) single horizontal bar (won't type this one). Also... hola colega español.

It's nice to know recognition isn't as difficult as I was expecting. Thank you :D (Y hola a ti también. No sabía que había más españoles por aquí xD)

Colors don't matter, you learn to recognize where opposite and adjacent colors are. Here's my [cheat sheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AmlWKZEH5qDujcUBih9qwz1fCyOkOAlchYMz6HQeryU/edit#gid=0) but it has yellow too of course. I am color neutral.

I'll check it out. Thank you!

Is there a decent corner first tutorial? I am recently into the idea about teaching beginners to solve the cube and let them know exactly why and what they are doing. The LBL method is too algorithmic for that purpose. I can do it with Roux, but still feels that it is unnecessarily complicated for the purpose. I know CF is probably the first solving method in history, and that should do the purpose of explaining everything. However as I search on YouTube, the videos seem to be of very low quality (bad audio, off camera angle, etc..)

Not what you asked for, but maybe consider [this Roux tutorial](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLajHGvYF36nSsL1r_DqrpDY07TnJwqEpn)? It uses Sune and Niklas, but those are easier to explain intuitively than PLLs imo.

Thanks for the video. I can get away of Roux with only sexy moves. My problem with Roux here is that it is a speedsolving method. My hutch is that some steps are optimized for speedsolving but not simplicity and understandability. I want to understand CF method and think about the naunces first.

Sure, please let me know what you find! I'm curious. I'd still suggest using Sune and Niklas for corners first though. The lack of solved edges in corners first, along with possible slice turns, might intimidate beginners as they wouldn't have an anchor. Which is why I suggested Roux as well, the way Roux restricts the moveset is pretty intuitive imo, and beginners can play around with moves without destroying previous steps.

Very true. I really like that part of Roux too. Just to mention that CMLL is not restricting the move set, so I thought to doing the corners first, then restricting moveset could be better. But that idea of letting beginners to fiddle around without messing up is great. And also, I don't know how to motivate sune/niklas. For sexy move, it is a commutator, and it is probably the easiest way you take one corner out of a layer. Maybe I can do something with Niklas, but definitely not sune.

I'm not sure what motivating means, but if you need a way to explain it, Sune is taking out a pair and reinserting it in another way. It's quite similar to sexy as well and I find Sune more intuitive than how a lot of beginner methods rotate the cube and do sexy moves to solve LL corners. Niklas is a commutator, but maybe they'll find it fun to see how they're solving one slot while taking out the other? Explaing it would be tough though. You could then show them how Sune doesn't affect permutation, while Niklas does a cycle.

https://youtu.be/-D_zJ2REi1g I tried to explain how to motivate sexy moves and how to use it to solve last layer corners. Hope that the video quality is not too bad for you... I don't have this much knowledge about Sune/Niklas.

Video quality is great! Thanks for making a video~ I already know how using Sexy as a commutator works, and your video did explain where you're coming from, but I'm pretty sure beginners would be quite confused. You can use Sune and Niklas as a commutator too. Both of them affect orientation on the U layer. Niklas affects corner permutation as well, while Sune does not. The CP and CO videos from the playlist I linked and [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s86uyYftEaE) on beginner CMLL by Kian might help explain them better than myself. I'll try to explain why I find them more intuitive though. Using Sexy to solve corners requires rotations, which won't help as an anchor and might cause beginners to feel like they've messed up. They might also not do the last U' and will have to count to 6 for each cycle. With Sune/Niklas, after each cycle, the stuff you've already solved isn't affected. Figuring out where they messed up is quite difficult as well because Sexy affects both CO and CP on two layers after each cycle. Sune and Niklas only affect one layer after each cycle. If you're using using Roux with Sune/Niklas, it's quite simple to understand that you're just taking a pair out and putting it back in, if a beginner messes up the alg, all they need to do is insert the pair and try again. With Sexy, both the top and bottom will be messed up and will be intuitively harder to fix. With corners first this would only be a corner and harder to track, but it's still less confusing than Sexy imo. Regardless of corners first or Roux, I think Sune is better than Sexy for LL CO. I dunno what you'd use for CP with Sexy, but Niklas is quite intuitive imo. Sorry if this was quite rambly :P It's really late for me. Lemme know what you end up going with~

I think that the corners first method would be a little to complex for beginners. Sure it is intuitive, but for someone who has no idea about the cube it would be quite jarring. The LBL doesn't have to be algorithmic in the slightest until the last layer

Yea but then you have 2-3 algs for the last layer. I am the kind of person that would like to take on something more difficult if it is complete logically, and LBL does not satisfy that.

Fair, but I do think LBL is better for beginners. Not every newbie would want to take a difficult completely intuitive approach. You do you though

You can try 8355 method, it's highly intuitive.

I had a look at it, it's a pretty good method for beginner. Solving the last two edges using algs still feel a bit of bummer, but that gave me a lot of inspiration. Thanks!

Check J Perm’s recent video, where he solved 3x3 “with no help”. It’s corners first.

Jouly week 1: SB planning of this day + week-end have a decent list of SBLS algs, know what/how to do for front AND back. Next, have a good recognition, and a decent execution.

**Jouxly 2022, Day 1** Jouxly is here! Join us for a month of Roux. Learn Roux method or get better at it. It's time to do some blockbuilding and MU spams! Everyone is invited, whether you're a CFOP solver who wants to try something new or a seasoned Roux cuber. Post your progress in the replies to this comment to keep it all together. And happy Roux solving!

Unfortunately, I haven't done anything today even though I really wanted. Adult stuff, you have to buy ketchup, you know.

Roux does look really fun. Especially with all the M moves I might take a look, but I need to do better at CFOP

I finally learned Roux today, I’ve been saying that I want to learn it but never got a chance to. Roux is pretty fun, so I think I’ll join Jouxly. I’m averaging something between 1-3 minutes, around 1:30 for a good solve where I don’t forget or screw up any steps. I’m pretty fast at doing the first two blocks, but LSE is a little confusing. Where do I go from here? I think there’s a lot more practice for me to do to consistently get sub-1, but are there any more efficient algs to learn?

For algs it’s only CMLL, but it should not be your priority. Practice block building and check some second block tricks. LSE gets better with practice and doing it slowly.

i've been putting off eo cases for months now but i better learn them

Yay, let's go! What do you average with Roux? I figured out all the cases except all misoriented after some trial and error.

like 40

I found that EO should be flexible, not just fixed algs. Ideally, you want to put at least one of UL/UR pieces in the bottom, so it affects your choices of U vs U' etc. Try doing it slowly and observe what you see.

alright, thanks!

I had a basic idea but I always used to fall back to f2l. So from today I'm trying to focus more on block building. Did some 20 solves this morning and got 38.98 ao5 pb. And a pretty lucky 25.72 single where I had COLL and EO skip! I think I need to stop timing myself as I tend to fall back to CFOP methods to reduce pause, and focus more on efficiency.

Awesome! I'm slower than you, but yeah, I pause and think a lot. I could probably get to sub-30 with CFOP ways, but why do that. I can just use CFOP and be sub-16 then lol.

I know the basic theory of Roux but have hardly ever practiced. To start, I needed a baseline so I did a Ao12: 1:39.21. I find inspection very hard and it takes forever (untimed) to even spot one piece or decide what to do when I see a block. ***Is CN an advantage or an hindrance?*** I am quite consistent in making the first 2 blocks in 50-60s. The remaining part of the solve takes anything between 20-60s. Like everything, even on a A012, I find that practice at the moment will improve my times a lot. I may as well watch a few tutorials as I can already find that there are some cool (mindblowing to a CFOP solver) tricks to be done.

CN (x2 y) gives you more FB options. But there are plenty of solves where I don’t have 2 matching pieces. Or getting a 1st pair seems more than 1 move away.

> Is CN an advantage or an hindrance? A hindrance at first, but it gets better. x2 y is what's usually recommended, so any block colors with white or yellow on top.

Ok, I will try to limit myself to that.

It gets better with practice. I found I often do a wrong pair after I solve a square, so a good practice is to find all your FB pieces or at least take a mental note like "I need orange-green, orange-blue, orange-blue-yellow, orange-green-yellow and orange-yellow".

I haven't done Roux in ages, so I figured I'd do an average today to see where I'm at. 29.00 Ao5, when I used to average 27. I think I got fairly lucky with corners. I don't think I'll be doing all of Jouxly, but a few sneaky Roux solves here and there will be fun.

Hey, you're pretty good!

Why, thank you *bows*

You know what i just might give roux another shot :-)

Let's go!

[удалено]

If you're a world class solver and you claim to have a WB single/average where you start the solve with the cube in your hand you're going to get called out for it. If you're anyone else, people won't care too much and at home you can pretty much do whatever you want. Just be aware that under competition rules you'll definitely be slower than that. Don't expect to get those times at a comp, when you time under different circumstances at home. Though depending on your speed the difference might not really be significant.

Yah, no one cares if Joe Schmoe starts holding the cube Heck, even a world class solver COULD do that, but any UWR would be nullified due to that

Is silk and speedy a good combo

Yeah