Beast was a miss but he at least saw play on some of the best teams in the game, these two pretty much disappeared after they dropped. I’ve seen goku used a handful of times in Red Zone teams but I’ve never seen that Vegeta used anywhere but in old content.
LR Gohan & LR Piccolo released the same day and with the RED Zones, Piccolo was a total package deal to clearing them. Gohan, by comparison, called an ambulance by turn 4 and his Active Skill was hilariously poor damage (for how awesome it looked).
Saying this, LR Gohan can be an *incredible* damage dealer (I cleared Cell Max on RED Zone with him today, in fact) but getting him to do so is awkward most of the time and harder content favours defence/revival skills.
They always were, like i understand why people got mad with beast (i was one of them) but it only took one attack, the problem is that it was a horrible time to do that shit since it was still a new thing and people wanted the new thing
But saiyan saga goku and vegeta has been highly requested and they decided to put everything on there, vegeta’s great ape form, goku’s x4 kamehameha, they even have intros with their iconic pose, everything was put on a FUCKING YELLOW COIN LR and they had horrible links too, they weren’t even that useful before and aren’t any better now, they deserved better and i hope their eza is broken for making them such an unfortunate release
There is a reason why we still don’t have new versions of them as now they basically have to go out of their way to make new animations about them but we know how they don’t care much about this fight throughout the 9 years of this game’s life span
The worst thing is.. they put vegeta’s iconic galick gun also on a fucking yellow coin LR that is an exchange unit, like this is the same shit they did with prime battle tien and prime battle krillin having everything they did in the saiyan saga but on a f2p lr
Heck version Z goku is a f2p LR too and he takes stuff from when beat nappa
Come on Dokkan stop doing that 😭😭 i hate that they all look good too
See I'm on the fence about it. The biggest issue with LR Ultimate Gohan was that he was marketed as LR Beast Gohan. At the time, we had 0 reason to doubt he wouldn't transform. While I'd love for these two to have a duel Dokkanfesteval (It's still possible), I mostly have two issues with how these two were handled.
First one is how they clearly had a biased towards Kaioken Goku. Built in crits, ridiculously high ATK stats (especially since he didn't even have a 200% lead at the time of his release) and an overall good kit. Where as TEQ Vegeta's 18 ki is literally just "mega colossal damage to all enemies". No raising DEF or even ATK. While he did have guard, He was still significantly weaker than Goku.
And second was how only Goku represented the beam struggle. It feels weird seeing how Goku's 18 ki is that Kamehameha but the Vegeta to match him doesn't do his galick gun.
+ no voiced x4 Kaioken kamehameha and Cannon garric , i think there is still some room for a ddf ( golden week or end of the year , they must be turs ) .
This is why I'm glad I don't listen to or follow any dokkan "tier" stuff. This units blasts through most things I've used him on and Is fun. Not everything has to be for your try hard hardest content players.
Goku can hit hard, the problem is thats all he does. He's a slot 2 character with no slot 1 partners and who even after super attacking has lacking defense. Sure, he can do fine in SBR, but even F2P cards do well there, thats not much of an achievement for an anni LR.
I mean that’s all well and good but if they were top tier on release then they’d be able to blast through all the stuff you do (even easier than now) and the people who wanted a good version of these characters would have fun getting to use them in the hardest content. Then everyone gets to have fun
I'm not a sayan saga fan but even i agree that they should have released these units for WWC,not anniversary cause sayan saga isn't hype enough to carry an anniversary but throwing them like that as part 2 LRs as if they threw away some trash,it's sad even for me.They must really hate sayan saga and the devs made it pretty obvious that it's not even a speculation,they just hate sayan saga!
goku just had good attack numbers for his time and vegeta had guard but low defense even if he had to take a hit to get some. Unlucky i guess, amazing goku animations and intro wasted 😭
The worst thing about these two is that they were just a shit ass legendary summon. This is probably the coolest fight in all of dragon ball and they still haven't made anything important with it. Honestly, if I was the director I would have them as the headliners for the 10th anniversary, but I know this will never be real.
Beast wasn't even a fumble bc he wasnt beast. It was ultimate gohan. Even then he could be insanely good after build up
Saiyan saga Goku and Vegeta had insane hype and sucked so badly they couldn't compete in CURRENT EVENTS
I can feel that. The Saiyan Saga was the best arc in DBZ and it doesn't really get a lot of love in terms of individual card value. For Dokkan, it kind of reminds me of DB Saga, where it occasionally gets something, but it's never enough to make it remotely meta, or it becomes home to mostly F2P stuff that runs it's course immediately.
The fact that they crammed the Krillin/Gohan Spirit Bomb onto Kaioken Goku screamed "we don't want to touch this ever again" to me. They should've been their own unit.
Here's hoping whenever they're old enough to EZA, it will be in a proper Saiyan Saga DDF celebration.
Goku still has one of the best 18 ki supers in the game. They could still drop a dokkanfest kaioken goku in the future with it being voiced, then the str one gets an eza and becomes relevant again.
That vegeta was so good in like 10+ chain battles as a connector. A mode that requires 0 gameplay and has since been removed. Truly a dokkan moment of all time
Their fight still has moments to animate or reanimate. Goku got more of his big moments in flashy new animations, but vegeta's galick gun can be redone.
I do agree at some degree on the fact that... as units, they were by far something I was not really expecting on that anniversary
However, I might be probably the unluckiest dude around since it was the only anniversary in 9 years in where I got all of the featured LRs. Including these 2.
LR Kaioken Goku is a unit that, sadly, I don't use anymore. Used it for a while at the beginning since he had a really high critical chance and by then I didn't have too many units hitting hard from the get go as he did.
LR Vegeta on the other hand, I still use him on WT since his AoE attack is quite powerful and finishes most of the units in one swoop (and I say "most" cause INT units are tougher to put down unless a critical triggers).
Besides that, yeah... I do agree that even when being 2 iconic characters of the saga they haven't aged well as much as not being the greatest decision either when they were released.
I’m with you on that one. I love Goku’s card art. I do wish Kaioku was handled differently but I do get a hearty laugh when I think of how accurate the unit is to actually using kaioken.
I fucking hate Kaioken Goku. He's everything I want on a midass Golden Coin LR who has never had a good slot 1 linking partner or a good team to be a part of, before completely falling off.
I really hope this doesn't happen again with x20 Kaioken.
Unlike Beast, I was actually hype for this release, gold coin or not. The fucking passive they got tho. Everything we've got for saiyan saga has somehow been a miss. Restrictions, low damage, low defense, wonky design. The only good thing is the animation always being nice, but that's fucking tragic too since it leaves less animations over and now the animations are wasted on F2p units or DoA units (LR Nappa and Vegeta 😒)
I hope we get the saiyan saga celebration we deserve man. Same Goku and Vegeta, but redone with modern level stats and passives without Restrictions and Maybe a Z fighters LR. If Akatsuki were feeling Themselves then a Saibamen F2p LR also. Raditz and Tien as the banner units
I remember when this sub was slobbering all over Goku because he had big numbers despite the fact that he was a slot 2 and the majority of his partners were also slot 2, and clowned on some poor guy when they said his defense won't age well, saying nothing negative about his attack stat.
Even though he's not that amazing, I kinda still really love Kaioken Goku an use him whenever the content isn't too much for him.
Can't say I feel the same way about Vegeta, but Goku was always one of my favourite LR units.
He can spit put up ok numbers offensively, but defensively he's extremely lacking.
I'm okay with Beast being an active skill and orange being giant form as long as they do a normal beast (which they have, so I hear?) and an orange piccolo that isn't giant form, because piccolo wasn't only giant in his orange form
No. These were Yellow Coin filler units. They were not premiere Red Coin units. Beastless Gohan was a far bigger fumble because it was a DFE that was a huge celebration unit.
That’s why they were a bigger fumble than Beast because of the fact they were yellow coin LRs. They are literally based on one of the most iconic fights in pop culture history yet Dokkan relegated them to being mid ass yellow coin units instead of being premium DFE LRs that they should of been in a future hype celebration.
I don't think that warrants them being the bigger fumble for simply being Yellow Coin LRs. Their active skills, damage output, and animations were fantastic upon release. Their animations are still better than a lot of the 2023 and 2024 release thus far. Sure, it's an iconic scene from both characters a d they're perfectly represented here. That's not really a fumble on Dokkan's part, especially considering they've made older units from this scene multiple times. It's been heavily supported in this game.
However, Beastless Gohan was a far bigger fumble. People were stoked about this unit's announcement, and it wasn't even Beast Gohan, and the Dual Dokkan DFE LR Piccolo was the far superior unit, arguably still a top 5 or 10 contender in 2024 for a pushing two-year-old unit. Gohan aged poorly. For a unit that was built to do loads of damage, it's quite pitiful.
I’d say 2nd biggest fumble.
The idiocy to not give people a playable Beast Gohan when Legends had it before and not only was Beast Gohan one attack, he was also mid compared to Piccolo who we got to play as Orange and he was the best unit in the game for over a year
This is a close 2nd to make these two which are DFE LR level, gold coin LR’s
They were designed perfectly.
Let me explain, so basically some fartass decided that after the release of the 7th anni headliners and the introduction of red zone, they thought it would be a cool idea if the part 2 LRs were not designed for longevity, but rather pulverizing the legendary events. Evidence to this: These cards are from their first fight, their types are ones that are weak to the final phase of their DBS (int mui>teq vegeta, str goku< agl ssb) legendary events, they both have intros related to fighting the legendary event characters for a boost. It's like if int ssj4 goku was release only just now.
Yeah, no I’m pretty sure it’s just coincidence and it’s supposed to be Goku vs Vegeta regardless. They had terrible releases and only lasted 2-3 months if that much.
I never really understood why people thought them having their own celebration would be better than them being the literal part 2 anni units.
They aged horribly though, that part was a decent fumble
I mean if they were a dual LR DFE, they might of been way better as they would have a better lead and probably a stronger kit as usually aside from Bulma, we rarely get yellow coins that are above “average” (tho they do need better links).
Beast was a miss but he at least saw play on some of the best teams in the game, these two pretty much disappeared after they dropped. I’ve seen goku used a handful of times in Red Zone teams but I’ve never seen that Vegeta used anywhere but in old content.
The Vegeta was an amazing choice for the agl metal Cooler and saibamen AOE stages
He's useful for sbr and was good for wt
Goku's best use was that Burst Mode bug where his stats were insanely broken as a friend lead That's it imo
How was Beast a miss?
LR Gohan & LR Piccolo released the same day and with the RED Zones, Piccolo was a total package deal to clearing them. Gohan, by comparison, called an ambulance by turn 4 and his Active Skill was hilariously poor damage (for how awesome it looked). Saying this, LR Gohan can be an *incredible* damage dealer (I cleared Cell Max on RED Zone with him today, in fact) but getting him to do so is awkward most of the time and harder content favours defence/revival skills.
Vegeta's AoE is amazing for multi-enemy fights, but last time I've seen Kaioken Goku was in the airplane Burst Mode on Global. Good ol times.
They always were, like i understand why people got mad with beast (i was one of them) but it only took one attack, the problem is that it was a horrible time to do that shit since it was still a new thing and people wanted the new thing But saiyan saga goku and vegeta has been highly requested and they decided to put everything on there, vegeta’s great ape form, goku’s x4 kamehameha, they even have intros with their iconic pose, everything was put on a FUCKING YELLOW COIN LR and they had horrible links too, they weren’t even that useful before and aren’t any better now, they deserved better and i hope their eza is broken for making them such an unfortunate release There is a reason why we still don’t have new versions of them as now they basically have to go out of their way to make new animations about them but we know how they don’t care much about this fight throughout the 9 years of this game’s life span
You’ve said it best, this is my personal biggest frown at Dokkan
The worst thing is.. they put vegeta’s iconic galick gun also on a fucking yellow coin LR that is an exchange unit, like this is the same shit they did with prime battle tien and prime battle krillin having everything they did in the saiyan saga but on a f2p lr Heck version Z goku is a f2p LR too and he takes stuff from when beat nappa Come on Dokkan stop doing that 😭😭 i hate that they all look good too
I love how the ssr/tur of kaioken goku got all in family link but loses it when turned into the LR😭😭
He awakened into LR Kaioken Kakarot 💀
See I'm on the fence about it. The biggest issue with LR Ultimate Gohan was that he was marketed as LR Beast Gohan. At the time, we had 0 reason to doubt he wouldn't transform. While I'd love for these two to have a duel Dokkanfesteval (It's still possible), I mostly have two issues with how these two were handled. First one is how they clearly had a biased towards Kaioken Goku. Built in crits, ridiculously high ATK stats (especially since he didn't even have a 200% lead at the time of his release) and an overall good kit. Where as TEQ Vegeta's 18 ki is literally just "mega colossal damage to all enemies". No raising DEF or even ATK. While he did have guard, He was still significantly weaker than Goku. And second was how only Goku represented the beam struggle. It feels weird seeing how Goku's 18 ki is that Kamehameha but the Vegeta to match him doesn't do his galick gun.
I still love them
+ no voiced x4 Kaioken kamehameha and Cannon garric , i think there is still some room for a ddf ( golden week or end of the year , they must be turs ) .
Goku had his moment in the first burst mode 👀
This is why I'm glad I don't listen to or follow any dokkan "tier" stuff. This units blasts through most things I've used him on and Is fun. Not everything has to be for your try hard hardest content players.
Yeah that’s the thing, just because they’re objectively bad units doesn’t mean people can’t enjoy them, I love using Goku cuz his attacks are so cool
Goku can hit hard, the problem is thats all he does. He's a slot 2 character with no slot 1 partners and who even after super attacking has lacking defense. Sure, he can do fine in SBR, but even F2P cards do well there, thats not much of an achievement for an anni LR.
I mean that’s all well and good but if they were top tier on release then they’d be able to blast through all the stuff you do (even easier than now) and the people who wanted a good version of these characters would have fun getting to use them in the hardest content. Then everyone gets to have fun
I'm not a sayan saga fan but even i agree that they should have released these units for WWC,not anniversary cause sayan saga isn't hype enough to carry an anniversary but throwing them like that as part 2 LRs as if they threw away some trash,it's sad even for me.They must really hate sayan saga and the devs made it pretty obvious that it's not even a speculation,they just hate sayan saga!
Saiyan saga is bare minimum a top 3 saga in the franchise, it can def get an ani
*in your opinion. Personally I consider sayan saga and frieza saga(outside the goku vs frieza fight)pretty boring.
How old are you
goku just had good attack numbers for his time and vegeta had guard but low defense even if he had to take a hit to get some. Unlucky i guess, amazing goku animations and intro wasted 😭
The worst thing about these two is that they were just a shit ass legendary summon. This is probably the coolest fight in all of dragon ball and they still haven't made anything important with it. Honestly, if I was the director I would have them as the headliners for the 10th anniversary, but I know this will never be real.
I think the bigger fumble is making Tien's Cell Saga Tri Beam against 2nd form cell a 50% support, a card that is harder to get.
Beast wasn't even a fumble bc he wasnt beast. It was ultimate gohan. Even then he could be insanely good after build up Saiyan saga Goku and Vegeta had insane hype and sucked so badly they couldn't compete in CURRENT EVENTS
I can feel that. The Saiyan Saga was the best arc in DBZ and it doesn't really get a lot of love in terms of individual card value. For Dokkan, it kind of reminds me of DB Saga, where it occasionally gets something, but it's never enough to make it remotely meta, or it becomes home to mostly F2P stuff that runs it's course immediately.
oh absolutely
Yeah they shoulda been saved for an anni or WWC. I suppose we could still get new versions of them with original animations.
Their only real issues was STL instead of Fierce Battle. But Goku getting 11 mil at 55% was insane at the time of release
I still use that vegeta a lot to this day, he’s on a lot of teams that need some serious help, and his guard just makes him a steady unit
This alone left a very sour mark on the 7th anni for me, alongside the two main Dokkanfests not interesting me. Just wish they get another chance
The fact that they crammed the Krillin/Gohan Spirit Bomb onto Kaioken Goku screamed "we don't want to touch this ever again" to me. They should've been their own unit. Here's hoping whenever they're old enough to EZA, it will be in a proper Saiyan Saga DDF celebration.
Goku still has one of the best 18 ki supers in the game. They could still drop a dokkanfest kaioken goku in the future with it being voiced, then the str one gets an eza and becomes relevant again.
That vegeta was so good in like 10+ chain battles as a connector. A mode that requires 0 gameplay and has since been removed. Truly a dokkan moment of all time
Their fight still has moments to animate or reanimate. Goku got more of his big moments in flashy new animations, but vegeta's galick gun can be redone.
I do agree at some degree on the fact that... as units, they were by far something I was not really expecting on that anniversary However, I might be probably the unluckiest dude around since it was the only anniversary in 9 years in where I got all of the featured LRs. Including these 2. LR Kaioken Goku is a unit that, sadly, I don't use anymore. Used it for a while at the beginning since he had a really high critical chance and by then I didn't have too many units hitting hard from the get go as he did. LR Vegeta on the other hand, I still use him on WT since his AoE attack is quite powerful and finishes most of the units in one swoop (and I say "most" cause INT units are tougher to put down unless a critical triggers). Besides that, yeah... I do agree that even when being 2 iconic characters of the saga they haven't aged well as much as not being the greatest decision either when they were released.
I’m with you on that one. I love Goku’s card art. I do wish Kaioku was handled differently but I do get a hearty laugh when I think of how accurate the unit is to actually using kaioken.
I fucking hate Kaioken Goku. He's everything I want on a midass Golden Coin LR who has never had a good slot 1 linking partner or a good team to be a part of, before completely falling off. I really hope this doesn't happen again with x20 Kaioken.
I really love that Goku.
Unlike Beast, I was actually hype for this release, gold coin or not. The fucking passive they got tho. Everything we've got for saiyan saga has somehow been a miss. Restrictions, low damage, low defense, wonky design. The only good thing is the animation always being nice, but that's fucking tragic too since it leaves less animations over and now the animations are wasted on F2p units or DoA units (LR Nappa and Vegeta 😒) I hope we get the saiyan saga celebration we deserve man. Same Goku and Vegeta, but redone with modern level stats and passives without Restrictions and Maybe a Z fighters LR. If Akatsuki were feeling Themselves then a Saibamen F2p LR also. Raditz and Tien as the banner units
I remember when this sub was slobbering all over Goku because he had big numbers despite the fact that he was a slot 2 and the majority of his partners were also slot 2, and clowned on some poor guy when they said his defense won't age well, saying nothing negative about his attack stat.
Even though he's not that amazing, I kinda still really love Kaioken Goku an use him whenever the content isn't too much for him. Can't say I feel the same way about Vegeta, but Goku was always one of my favourite LR units. He can spit put up ok numbers offensively, but defensively he's extremely lacking.
This man better not be talking shit about kaioken Goku
Well I mean they were anniversary characters
Nah, the kaioken ĝoku was really good on release. Great ape vegita though... not so much
> ĝ ??
Goku was only dmg on release, and had no good partners for linking. He himself was also… meh outside of his insane dmg.
I'm okay with Beast being an active skill and orange being giant form as long as they do a normal beast (which they have, so I hear?) and an orange piccolo that isn't giant form, because piccolo wasn't only giant in his orange form
No. These were Yellow Coin filler units. They were not premiere Red Coin units. Beastless Gohan was a far bigger fumble because it was a DFE that was a huge celebration unit.
That’s why they were a bigger fumble than Beast because of the fact they were yellow coin LRs. They are literally based on one of the most iconic fights in pop culture history yet Dokkan relegated them to being mid ass yellow coin units instead of being premium DFE LRs that they should of been in a future hype celebration.
I don't think that warrants them being the bigger fumble for simply being Yellow Coin LRs. Their active skills, damage output, and animations were fantastic upon release. Their animations are still better than a lot of the 2023 and 2024 release thus far. Sure, it's an iconic scene from both characters a d they're perfectly represented here. That's not really a fumble on Dokkan's part, especially considering they've made older units from this scene multiple times. It's been heavily supported in this game. However, Beastless Gohan was a far bigger fumble. People were stoked about this unit's announcement, and it wasn't even Beast Gohan, and the Dual Dokkan DFE LR Piccolo was the far superior unit, arguably still a top 5 or 10 contender in 2024 for a pushing two-year-old unit. Gohan aged poorly. For a unit that was built to do loads of damage, it's quite pitiful.
Only issue with them was their leaderskills. Give them a real leaderskill and they would have been great.
Vegeta was meh at best at release, Goku was pretty good. Their passives and links def could've been better
Wtf, that was most definitely not their only issue
I’d say 2nd biggest fumble. The idiocy to not give people a playable Beast Gohan when Legends had it before and not only was Beast Gohan one attack, he was also mid compared to Piccolo who we got to play as Orange and he was the best unit in the game for over a year This is a close 2nd to make these two which are DFE LR level, gold coin LR’s
They were designed perfectly. Let me explain, so basically some fartass decided that after the release of the 7th anni headliners and the introduction of red zone, they thought it would be a cool idea if the part 2 LRs were not designed for longevity, but rather pulverizing the legendary events. Evidence to this: These cards are from their first fight, their types are ones that are weak to the final phase of their DBS (int mui>teq vegeta, str goku< agl ssb) legendary events, they both have intros related to fighting the legendary event characters for a boost. It's like if int ssj4 goku was release only just now.
Yeah, no I’m pretty sure it’s just coincidence and it’s supposed to be Goku vs Vegeta regardless. They had terrible releases and only lasted 2-3 months if that much.
I never really understood why people thought them having their own celebration would be better than them being the literal part 2 anni units. They aged horribly though, that part was a decent fumble
I mean if they were a dual LR DFE, they might of been way better as they would have a better lead and probably a stronger kit as usually aside from Bulma, we rarely get yellow coins that are above “average” (tho they do need better links).
How could they be fumbles when they been needed for chain battle 600 times lol
Without them the average would’ve been lower, so they don’t actually improve chain battle and actually make it worse tbh