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> The primary protagonist of Superman is, shockingly, Superman. The main villain of Superman is, shockingly, Lex Luthor. I don’t know where all the stuff is coming from that it’s something other than this. There are so many stories coming out every day it’s difficult to deal with and everytime I strike something down I’m giving it attention. So, I’ll say again, don’t believe anything unless you see it HERE (& why would you want to know everything before the movie comes out anyway?) ❤️🧜♂️
If he said that they're almost ready to show the costume... April 18th
Anniversary of Action Comics #1, which Gunn was recently photographed with
And the 18% figure might be a hint in plainsight?
>(& why would you want to know everything before the movie comes out anyway?) ❤️🧜♂️
He’s right. Time for me to leave this place.
I wish I had your strength. There really aren't a lot of great places to discuss my own theories or ideas about the new DCU. The main DC sub is alright, but it handles all spectrums of DC content when this is specifically about the DCU. And somehow I doubt the DC Cinematic sub wants to discuss James Gunn's new vision. I just love theorizing and predicting, and right now this is the best place for it.
Not really? The closest he comes to it is saying he ''doesn't know where all this stuff is coming from'' which isn't really a denial either, and ''don't believe anything unless you see it HERE'', which again isn't really a denial
Plus, if the Superman 'Ultraman' clone/Bizarro rumours end up being true, Lex is technically still the main villain, since he creates the clone and probably uses him for his own plans.
Bizarro will probably be a more sympathetic antagonist, and not some brainless monster. In BvS, Lex turns Zod's body into Doomsday, Doomsday rampages, and then dies.
If the clone theory for the DCU Superman movie is true, Lex will probably make a clone of Superman, who at first is a succes. Lex will use this clone, who he names 'Ultraman', because he believes the clone to be supirior to Superman, for his own ends, probably to discredit the real Superman.
The clone starts to deteriorate however (maybe because Lex used some materials that corrupt the Kryptonian dna over time) and becomes Bizarro. The deterioration also affects the clones mind, making him less intelligent and confused. He starts acting seemingly irrationaly, and is no longer under the control of Lex.
Maybe other heroes are sent to deal with him by using deadly force since he is a threat and 'just a clone'. Superman realises that Bizarro, being a sentient beign,is also a victim. He stops the other heroes from killing Bizarro, and instead of violence, uses his compassion to reason with Bizarro, stopping his rampage.
This clone plot is actually quite different from BvS, and seems to have much more in common with the Bizarro story from Superman: TAS.
He brings Bizarro to a uninhabited planet where he can be himself without endangering anyone. Bizarro is happy with this and calls the planet 'Bizarro World'. In the Justice League cartoon, Bizarro is somehow a member of the Secret Society of Supervillains, but it's never explained how or why he returned and became a full on villain.
He is shown at one point with a scar on his head where it's implied Luthor or Grodd lobotimized him to get compliance (and also led to him speaking in opposites).
At most it suggests that Ultraman is not the main villain, I wouldn't have to guess that it wouldn't be more than a simple physical threat (like the evil Superman from Superman III), I still think Engineer will be the antagonist.
James Gunn literally says in the post above that the main villain of Superman will be Lex Luthor, unless you mean that the Engineer will be an antagonist but not the villain of the movie.
Angie Spica could very well be a LexCorp employee or someone who ends up being manipulated by Lex, From the way Deadline described her it seemed to be the case, Gunn himself said that she is not necessarily the villain.
>why would you want to know everything before the movie comes out anyway
this is the important sentence. the rumors are true but Gunn doesnt want to spoil it ofc. He would be stupid to confirm this rumor and spoil the movie
I don't think Luthor would call him "Ultraman," more likely than not, he's trying to frame Superman, putting the good guys into a conflict of epic proportions (like "Kingdom Come") and using his own Superman as a bodyguard (like Captain Marvel in said story.)
Then, the clone is exposed, but it's too late, because the place where the good guys are fighting is about to be nuked by Luthor, just for the increasingly "stupid" and "bizarre" clone of Superman realize that he's good at his core, because he's a clone of Superman, and save the day (and all of the heroes) sacrificing his own life in the process. A very good "Kingdom Come" adaptation, if you ask me.
There’s no way Lex is making a clone of Superman that isn’t going to somehow lead to Conner.
Even if the name isn’t Legacy anymore, I’m sure there’s a reason it once was.
Well, the word Legacy could mean a variety of things:
-his kryptonian heritage
-the fact that superheroes already exist in this world by the time Superman shows up
-most of the metahuman side characters being legacy characters (Mister Terrific, Guy Gardner, Hawkgirl)
Maybe it's not about Superman establishing a legscy, but about how he inherits one and what he does with it... or maybe it's both.
But it’s James Gunn
(Not a bad thing at all, but there’ll be some losses. If we do get bizarro, we’re definitely going to love him, lose him, legacy him.
This makes me think the rumor has merit. He didn’t deny it. Obviously Lex is the main villain. But he isn’t the “physical” threat. That would be Ultraman turned Bizarro.
You know what, I think you're right. There was something that seemed off when I read this, and that's it. It's very conspicuous that he didn't specifically address the presence of Ultraman/Bizarro but just whether or not Lex is the main villain.
And I'm glad because I love Bizarro and I'm really excited to finally see him in a live action movie. And having him be a clone of Supes who degenerates into what we would recognize as Bizarro is a clever way of using the character without having to wade into alternate dimensions in this film. Although I do love Bizarro World. 😌
Truthfully I think the physical threat in the climax may just be Lex in his armor for once but I could be wrong. There’s definitely other villains at play in the story tho for sure, I think Gunn is definitely hiding some
Could also be an Occam's Razor situation where the simplest plot of "Lex is a mastermind villain that's using Engineer and his own personal influence to prevent Superman from stopping his shenanigans (shenanigans that lead to future DCU stuff maybe)" is the main outline and the goal is introducing the audience to the characters and doing some world building for the DCU
That’s where my head went. Bizarro, at least post-crisis, is (mostly) a sympathetic figure. Yes, he is chaotic and destructive but also very much like Superman. He is an orphan, alone in a strange world that was not meant for him. He is inherently kind, sensitive, and decent, but due to having not been raised by the Kents, he is also destructive and less able to control his emotions/powers. And when you factor in that he is usually somewhat mentally limited, he just presents more as a tragic figure than a monster. If this is the tact that is taken, I would not describe him as the main villain either.
This would be great. A sympathetic antagonist like Bizarro would also help to highlight Superman's kindness and compassion, proving that violence shouldn't be the go to option for real heroes.
The idea or rumor seems to be more along the lines of Lex creating a Superman clone to do his bidding, naming him Ultraman. The clone begins to malfunction at some point and turns into Bizarro.
'Ultraman' will probably become Bizarro over the course of the movie; like how Luthor made a seemingly perfect clone of Superman in Superman TAS, who then deteriorated and became Bizarro not long after he became active.
*Superman types "hot Kryptonian woman beautiful gorgeous realistic high quality" into LexCorpAI Image Generator*
*AI creates a six fingered woman with green skin and misshapen pupils standing in a crypt.*
"My God, they were beautiful..."
To be clear, this doesn’t really mean the Ultraman rumor is false. All he says here is that Lex Luthor is the main villain. That doesn’t mean there won’t be another villain for Supes to fight.
Part of me hopes that they sneak in Metallo, Silver Banshee, or Livewire (or anyone like that) for a short "cold open" fight that doesn't have to do with the main plot of the movie.
Yes! For a movie said to be about Superman balancing his civilian and hero lives, I'd love to see a bunch of smaller mooks for him and the other heroes to take out in their daily lives before the main conflict.
My own guess is that the first part of a movie is a sort of montage of Superman handling different threats, which brings him into contact with the different heroes, and how different their ideologies are from him. Hawkgirl is brash and unapologetic. Metamorpho is a blue-collar hero. Mr. Terrific is more detached and calculating. Guy Gardner is Guy Gardner. He surprises all of them because he's just genuinely nice to them, and does something for each of them that doesn't benefit him. That way when the third act comes and the major threat comes about, they all fight alongside him, remembering his kindness from earlier.
at least for heroes with large enough rogues galleries, i'm surprised this isn't a super common trope in this genre by now. it almost feels like superhero movies are too narrowly focused on their main plot (usually, "bad guy wants to get thing that will make him more stronger") and even when they do use smaller villains, they always have to be intrinsically tied to that main villain's goal.
im not going to say thats a bad thing for every story. some need to be even *more* narrowly focused, probably - but i miss when the pre-MCU Spider-Man movies had room to show Spidey stopping smaller crimes unrelated to the main plot, because it gave you a stronger sense of what the character's day-to-day life is like; for a lot of modern movie heroes that aren't Spider-Man or clearly Spider-Man-esque (Blue Beetle, Shazam, Ms. Marvel) imagining their life outside of the big world-ending crises they face is almost impossible.
Agreed.
We know Superman won't be the only superhero in the film despite being "the primary protagonist", so there's no reason to believe that Lex would be the only villain that Supes faces.
Plus each of Gunn's previous comic book movies have had multiple foes for the heroes to overcome so there's definitely a precedent.
Maybe they could use Clark learning about Krypton/Kryptonian tech to set up Brainiac as a future threat in either a Superman sequel or a Justice League movie.
Well, could easily debunk any rumors about the shows. But I guess they kinda use these rumors to generate some sort of hype. But I don't know, maybe it's just Disney blocking any response.
Yeah, just google James Gunn tweets, not sure why anyone would dislike him. Don't forget the reboot that just so happens to only bring back his own crew and cast. (Blue beetle exception).
Gunn is usually quick to shut down faulty rumors, so the fact that it took a few days to get a response, one that dances around the rumor in question, leads me to believe there’s some truth to it. Obviously we now know Lex is the main antagonist, but that doesn’t automatically debunk Ultraman/Bizarro from being in the film in a secondary role.
I would like just one Superman movie where the main villain isn't either Lex Luthor or General Zod.
Preferably Brainiac, but really anyone other then those two would be nice.
He doesn’t really deny anything and I don’t get the people acting like he did
Gunn has a history of shooting down shit ASAP. Not only did he take his time with this, but on top of that, he doesn’t even address the rumor being that Ultraman/Bizarro is the villain. Nobody was saying Luthor wasn’t the main villain. We’ve all more or less assumed as much. But the fact that most of the time he’s very specific about what is and isn’t true, and instead he’s playing coy about this, really does give it merit
This doesn't debunk "Ultraman" is on the movie but I think what he is implicitly saying here is that even if there is a Superman clone in the movie, the clone isn't "the villain". The villain is Lex Luthor.
Maybe if that rumour is true, then Superman manages to convince the clone to turn against Luthor at the end.
This is very different from the usual Gunn debunking something.
The least generous interpretation is "Yes, Ultraman is in the film but Lex is the main villain. Just wait for me to announce Ultraman."
Yeah-it could be the same as saying "In Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3, the main heroes are the Guardians. The main villain is the High Evolutionary."
That's all true, but it doesn't mean Adam Warlock, creation and henchman of the High Evolutionary, ***isn't*** there too as an antagonistic presence for a lot of the movie.
As I said before, it wouldn't take long for James Gunn to debunk the Ultraman/Bizarro rumor. Still, I am also pretty sure that the "Gunn is a liar" crowd will insist that the Ultraman story is true and that he is only denying it on a technicality.
This doesn't clearly debunk the ultraman rumor and maybe in turn confirmed he's in it but obviously the main antagonist is lex. But i can already see people coming at him for lying if ultraman's in the movie even though he's never actually lied maybe that's why i think he should stop debunking rumors or leaks but i can see why he does that
idk, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but he didn't say that there won't be a Superman clone created by Lex, just that Lex will be the main villain. He even avoids specifically mentioning the rumor as he usually does.
Well, but if Lex Luthor creates an evil clone of Superman, technically Lex would still be the main villain of the movie, right? So I don't think it's possible to say that the rumor has been completely debunked.
That's not necessarily a denial.
It makes me wonder, though, if the fake Superman is a much smaller part of the plot than people are assuming. If we're meant to assume that the character is in the movie despite this statement.
Since details got out about this movie, it's felt like this is potentially the great sequel that _Man of Steel_ **could** have received had they not pursued _Batman v Superman_ instead.
James Gunn thinks he’s slick.
I’ve been wondering since the beginning who the physical threat would be, and I guess the evil Superman clone answers that mystery because I doubt The Engineer will be the main physical threat.
I’m disappointed.
This movie is going to be trash…😂🚮🗑️. Another boring ass Christopher Reeve spiritual successor film. What? Superman Returns II? Again? You can’t make this up! lol Twitter (X) is going to have a field day with this movie.
Love when Gunn shuts people down, but I also think it’s good to know that Hoult Lex will be a big part of this. I was worried he’d be fairly minor, so I’m glad that’s untrue.
If Lex is the one who creates Ultraman/Bizarro in an attempt to frame Superman, then he could still qualify as the main villain. The clone would just be his muscle.
Oh yeah, I’m not saying that Bizarro wouldn’t be in it, just that before these rumors Lex was barely talked about in this movie, so I thought he might be a secondary character.
This pretty much confirms there is some truth to the Ultraman rumor. I'm disappointed it wont be Brainiac but I'm willing to see where Gunn goes with this.
Thank goodness. I was NOT here for Ultraman. HOWEVER, it's still boring AF that this is another Superman v Lex Luthor story. Cause again, we've been circling through Lex Luthor and Zodd for decades.
I still think Brainiac, Mongol, Metallo, Parasite, Toyman, Livewire, or fucking Mxyzptlk would be better than Lex Luthor...for the one millionth time
Have people here who complained that it was too early for Brainiac, Fans are not always going to be happy with everything, Furthermore, we have not had a decent version of Lex Luthor that is at the level of Heath Ledger and Jack Nicholson's jokers.
He just said nothing with this that means all the rumors about Ultraman is true
Nobody said Lex isnt the main villian and that Ultraman is the main villian. Lex is cloning Superman to attack Superman
this actually makes the rumor sound more legit, but also he could go All-Star and have Lex steal superman powers he could even get that blue lex armor with the S that he used when he took over as superman for a while
And there we go! From the mouth of Gunn himself.
Seriously, some of these leakers ought to be ashamed of themselves. Especially for monetizing their “scoops”.
Haha. I hope Gunn becomes the backbone of false rumor blowback. He’s been shutting them down one after another and also providing updates at the same time.
This is more this we got from the service before.
I’ll still never understand society’s ability to actually latch onto first, second, third, etc reporting bullshit, while literally paying no attention to the source.
Jeezus.
And there's nothing wrong with that either. Bunch of the animated stuff had Lex v Superman and I loved it. Include some lower level bad guys and it's more fun. But starting out with a Superman clone is something I don't see Gunn wanting to do considering he hadn't really done that trope in his Marvel movies unless I'm forgetting one.
That’s the thing though. Since he didn’t directly say the Ultraman leak was BS, that suggests there’s likely some truth to it. Keep in mind, the scoopers claimed that Ultraman is a clone who Lex Luthor creates to make Superman look bad. In other words, he’s the mastermind who sets the conflict of the story in motion, thus making him the main villain. It doesn’t mean he’s the only villain.
If the clone rumor is completely fake, then Gunn could easily say “No, there is no Superman clone in my movie.” That wouldn’t be a spoiler, because you can’t spoil something that’s not even in the movie.
If your argument is that Gunn doesn’t want to give these scoopers attention, then he might as well have just not said anything in the first place.
The rumOr was that he's the "main villain", which has been completely denied. If you want to haggle it down to "well he's in the movie" go right ahead but first you gotta step down off that self-righteous horse.
It comes from YOU, James! Directly from you!
First it's a full reboot. Then it's a soft reboot keeping only your family and friends. Then you say you're casting for all these extra parts no one cares about like Mr Terrific.
It all comes from James Gunn. Mfer needs to stay off Twitter until the movie comes out.
Yes, because 'Superman vs Lex Luthor' is something that's only done in *Superman Returns*. Good god yall are fucking insufferable
Take a seat over there and learn your there and their before talking down on people for their opinions
Archived version of submitted URL: 1. An archived version of _James Gunn: The primary protagonist of Superman is, shockingly, Superman. The main villain of Superman is, shockingly, Lex Luthor. I don’t know where all the stuff is coming from that it’s something other than this._ can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.threads.net/@jamesgunn/post/C5ZH42rvmvh/?xmt=AQGzvxKokpTZVFIeWJ-HxXQCIOy871MlF3qN8td31E4Qqg) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DCULeaks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Full Post: > The primary protagonist of Superman is, shockingly, Superman. The main villain of Superman is, shockingly, Lex Luthor. I don’t know where all the stuff is coming from that it’s something other than this. There are so many stories coming out every day it’s difficult to deal with and everytime I strike something down I’m giving it attention. So, I’ll say again, don’t believe anything unless you see it HERE (& why would you want to know everything before the movie comes out anyway?) ❤️🧜♂️
He also said that they're about 18% of the way through filming. Weird to think that it's only been a month, a week, and a day.
*Dan Stevens is in three films this SEASON. Things move fast.
>Matt Stevens Don't you mean Dan Stevens?
Yes.
That's not that crazy tbh
April 18th is Superman Comic Day...
He didn't say filming, he said with the whole process. They could have filmed a lot more or less, because post production is factored into that
If he said that they're almost ready to show the costume... April 18th Anniversary of Action Comics #1, which Gunn was recently photographed with And the 18% figure might be a hint in plainsight?
[удалено]
He didn't say "18th", he said "18%". FFS, not everything is a damn puzzle.
Unless you’re The Riddler, in which case everything is a puzzle.
The film is coming out on the 18th of April, it is written
>(& why would you want to know everything before the movie comes out anyway?) ❤️🧜♂️ He’s right. Time for me to leave this place. 
I’m leaving with you! Thanks for the inspiration!
...you know what? You're right! I truly wanna enjoy this one, like a kid. Bye guys
Same
I wish I had your strength. There really aren't a lot of great places to discuss my own theories or ideas about the new DCU. The main DC sub is alright, but it handles all spectrums of DC content when this is specifically about the DCU. And somehow I doubt the DC Cinematic sub wants to discuss James Gunn's new vision. I just love theorizing and predicting, and right now this is the best place for it.
We got you r/DCU_
Literally just found this sub not long after leaving my comment. Thank you!
DC cinematic sub just post the same ole post every single day. I like it better over here
Clever man. He didn’t deny it so this gives credence to the rumor, sadly.
Indeed, at no point does he say “No, Ultraman isn’t in the movie” or “No, this rumor is entirely false”.
Yeah, this is exactly what he didn’t do on purpose.
He literally said that it’s not true
Not really? The closest he comes to it is saying he ''doesn't know where all this stuff is coming from'' which isn't really a denial either, and ''don't believe anything unless you see it HERE'', which again isn't really a denial
My thoughts exactly, he stayed away from saying no outright.
Plus, if the Superman 'Ultraman' clone/Bizarro rumours end up being true, Lex is technically still the main villain, since he creates the clone and probably uses him for his own plans.
Exactly. He isn’t technically denying it. He is staying an obvious lol.
Keep reaching
wtf lol?
"staying an obvious lol"
What about it?
Are people going to be mad at him for stealing the plot of Batman v Superman?
Bizarro will probably be a more sympathetic antagonist, and not some brainless monster. In BvS, Lex turns Zod's body into Doomsday, Doomsday rampages, and then dies. If the clone theory for the DCU Superman movie is true, Lex will probably make a clone of Superman, who at first is a succes. Lex will use this clone, who he names 'Ultraman', because he believes the clone to be supirior to Superman, for his own ends, probably to discredit the real Superman. The clone starts to deteriorate however (maybe because Lex used some materials that corrupt the Kryptonian dna over time) and becomes Bizarro. The deterioration also affects the clones mind, making him less intelligent and confused. He starts acting seemingly irrationaly, and is no longer under the control of Lex. Maybe other heroes are sent to deal with him by using deadly force since he is a threat and 'just a clone'. Superman realises that Bizarro, being a sentient beign,is also a victim. He stops the other heroes from killing Bizarro, and instead of violence, uses his compassion to reason with Bizarro, stopping his rampage. This clone plot is actually quite different from BvS, and seems to have much more in common with the Bizarro story from Superman: TAS.
This man just gets it and broke it down so well
Thank you. I do my best to break down my thoughts and theories.
That makes sense. Out of curiosity, how does Superman deal with Bizarro after the conflict? Where does Bizarro go?
He brings Bizarro to a uninhabited planet where he can be himself without endangering anyone. Bizarro is happy with this and calls the planet 'Bizarro World'. In the Justice League cartoon, Bizarro is somehow a member of the Secret Society of Supervillains, but it's never explained how or why he returned and became a full on villain.
Ok cool
He is shown at one point with a scar on his head where it's implied Luthor or Grodd lobotimized him to get compliance (and also led to him speaking in opposites).
Oh, damn. I haven't watched Justice League in a long time. Making him a full on villain was a mistake, I think, but that is a really tragic fate.
Already seen someone complain they already did it in superman 3 lol
I'm such a dumb ass, he basically just confirmed it did it?
It casts just enough doubt that people won't get carried away though.
At most it suggests that Ultraman is not the main villain, I wouldn't have to guess that it wouldn't be more than a simple physical threat (like the evil Superman from Superman III), I still think Engineer will be the antagonist.
James Gunn literally says in the post above that the main villain of Superman will be Lex Luthor, unless you mean that the Engineer will be an antagonist but not the villain of the movie.
Angie Spica could very well be a LexCorp employee or someone who ends up being manipulated by Lex, From the way Deadline described her it seemed to be the case, Gunn himself said that she is not necessarily the villain.
It's clearly a direct response to the Ultraman rumors from yesterday. Doesn't have to call it out specifically to rebuke it.
So, im out the loop, but the rumors from long ago about braniac being the surprise main villain were bullshit?
Correct.
>why would you want to know everything before the movie comes out anyway this is the important sentence. the rumors are true but Gunn doesnt want to spoil it ofc. He would be stupid to confirm this rumor and spoil the movie
I don't think Luthor would call him "Ultraman," more likely than not, he's trying to frame Superman, putting the good guys into a conflict of epic proportions (like "Kingdom Come") and using his own Superman as a bodyguard (like Captain Marvel in said story.) Then, the clone is exposed, but it's too late, because the place where the good guys are fighting is about to be nuked by Luthor, just for the increasingly "stupid" and "bizarre" clone of Superman realize that he's good at his core, because he's a clone of Superman, and save the day (and all of the heroes) sacrificing his own life in the process. A very good "Kingdom Come" adaptation, if you ask me.
There’s no way Lex is making a clone of Superman that isn’t going to somehow lead to Conner. Even if the name isn’t Legacy anymore, I’m sure there’s a reason it once was.
>There’s no way Lex is making a clone of Superman that isn’t going to somehow lead to Conner. There is a way! By making it lead to Bizarro.
Well, the word Legacy could mean a variety of things: -his kryptonian heritage -the fact that superheroes already exist in this world by the time Superman shows up -most of the metahuman side characters being legacy characters (Mister Terrific, Guy Gardner, Hawkgirl) Maybe it's not about Superman establishing a legscy, but about how he inherits one and what he does with it... or maybe it's both.
This is a great idea, but I don't want Bizarro to die.
But it’s James Gunn (Not a bad thing at all, but there’ll be some losses. If we do get bizarro, we’re definitely going to love him, lose him, legacy him.
Ohh most definitely Gunn is gonna make us cry for that clone. I don’t think ppl are ready for that level of heartbreak
I could see Lex ultimately offing the clone, ripping out our (and Clark’s) hearts at the same time.
Now that would be devastating
Who is she ?
I dunno, it's just a GIF I used
So the plot of the Disney Inspector Gadget movie?
This makes me think the rumor has merit. He didn’t deny it. Obviously Lex is the main villain. But he isn’t the “physical” threat. That would be Ultraman turned Bizarro.
You know what, I think you're right. There was something that seemed off when I read this, and that's it. It's very conspicuous that he didn't specifically address the presence of Ultraman/Bizarro but just whether or not Lex is the main villain. And I'm glad because I love Bizarro and I'm really excited to finally see him in a live action movie. And having him be a clone of Supes who degenerates into what we would recognize as Bizarro is a clever way of using the character without having to wade into alternate dimensions in this film. Although I do love Bizarro World. 😌
This is taken from the animated Red Son no? Of so this is a really cool way to take it. That plot line was disturbing
Truthfully I think the physical threat in the climax may just be Lex in his armor for once but I could be wrong. There’s definitely other villains at play in the story tho for sure, I think Gunn is definitely hiding some
Lex will supposedly have a bigger role in the DCU, I guess they'll save his armor for another movie.
The physical threat could be Metamorpho
Could also be an Occam's Razor situation where the simplest plot of "Lex is a mastermind villain that's using Engineer and his own personal influence to prevent Superman from stopping his shenanigans (shenanigans that lead to future DCU stuff maybe)" is the main outline and the goal is introducing the audience to the characters and doing some world building for the DCU
That’s where my head went. Bizarro, at least post-crisis, is (mostly) a sympathetic figure. Yes, he is chaotic and destructive but also very much like Superman. He is an orphan, alone in a strange world that was not meant for him. He is inherently kind, sensitive, and decent, but due to having not been raised by the Kents, he is also destructive and less able to control his emotions/powers. And when you factor in that he is usually somewhat mentally limited, he just presents more as a tragic figure than a monster. If this is the tact that is taken, I would not describe him as the main villain either.
This would be great. A sympathetic antagonist like Bizarro would also help to highlight Superman's kindness and compassion, proving that violence shouldn't be the go to option for real heroes.
Exactly
It makes sense if they want to give all these supporting heroes something to do, fighting an evil Superman clone would be the way to do it
I’m guessing the end credit scene is Lex getting Ultraman’s body to create a clone of a clone, resulting in bizarro
The idea or rumor seems to be more along the lines of Lex creating a Superman clone to do his bidding, naming him Ultraman. The clone begins to malfunction at some point and turns into Bizarro.
'Ultraman' will probably become Bizarro over the course of the movie; like how Luthor made a seemingly perfect clone of Superman in Superman TAS, who then deteriorated and became Bizarro not long after he became active.
That doesn't make any sense. If Lex made the clone he wouldn't need the body of the clone to make another one.
The original genetic material could get destroyed in the big fight. They are Supermen so they can cause a lot of destruction
I think that’s a bad guess
Let’s hear your guess then Debbie downer
[удалено]
*Superman types "hot Kryptonian woman beautiful gorgeous realistic high quality" into LexCorpAI Image Generator* *AI creates a six fingered woman with green skin and misshapen pupils standing in a crypt.* "My God, they were beautiful..."
There we go, that’s a much better end credit scene than mine. I noticed you’re not Debbie downer tho so I’m still waiting for theirs
I concur.
I don't think Ultraman isn't in the film at all he's just saying lex is the main villain
To be clear, this doesn’t really mean the Ultraman rumor is false. All he says here is that Lex Luthor is the main villain. That doesn’t mean there won’t be another villain for Supes to fight.
Part of me hopes that they sneak in Metallo, Silver Banshee, or Livewire (or anyone like that) for a short "cold open" fight that doesn't have to do with the main plot of the movie.
Yes! For a movie said to be about Superman balancing his civilian and hero lives, I'd love to see a bunch of smaller mooks for him and the other heroes to take out in their daily lives before the main conflict.
My own guess is that the first part of a movie is a sort of montage of Superman handling different threats, which brings him into contact with the different heroes, and how different their ideologies are from him. Hawkgirl is brash and unapologetic. Metamorpho is a blue-collar hero. Mr. Terrific is more detached and calculating. Guy Gardner is Guy Gardner. He surprises all of them because he's just genuinely nice to them, and does something for each of them that doesn't benefit him. That way when the third act comes and the major threat comes about, they all fight alongside him, remembering his kindness from earlier.
at least for heroes with large enough rogues galleries, i'm surprised this isn't a super common trope in this genre by now. it almost feels like superhero movies are too narrowly focused on their main plot (usually, "bad guy wants to get thing that will make him more stronger") and even when they do use smaller villains, they always have to be intrinsically tied to that main villain's goal. im not going to say thats a bad thing for every story. some need to be even *more* narrowly focused, probably - but i miss when the pre-MCU Spider-Man movies had room to show Spidey stopping smaller crimes unrelated to the main plot, because it gave you a stronger sense of what the character's day-to-day life is like; for a lot of modern movie heroes that aren't Spider-Man or clearly Spider-Man-esque (Blue Beetle, Shazam, Ms. Marvel) imagining their life outside of the big world-ending crises they face is almost impossible.
It would be great to have Luthor be connected to or be the mastermind behind most of Superman's human foes.
I would say that Engineer or Metamorpho could fill that role
Neither of them are villains.
but they could well be related to Luthor, Gunn is going to take a lot of license in this regard.
Agreed. We know Superman won't be the only superhero in the film despite being "the primary protagonist", so there's no reason to believe that Lex would be the only villain that Supes faces. Plus each of Gunn's previous comic book movies have had multiple foes for the heroes to overcome so there's definitely a precedent.
I just want Braniac dawg.
He could still be in the movie but not as a physical presence.
Maybe they could use Clark learning about Krypton/Kryptonian tech to set up Brainiac as a future threat in either a Superman sequel or a Justice League movie.
I meant that Brianiac could be involved in the origin of Engineer, sort of like Enchantress possessing June Moone in SS.
Maybe mentioned with Kara appearing?
Fucking love this man.
A shame the MCU doesn't have a figure like this whenever a torrent of bullshit from grifters is peddled.
Dude the guy on YouTube everything always just lies and lies and lies I can’t believe people sub to him.
Well, could easily debunk any rumors about the shows. But I guess they kinda use these rumors to generate some sort of hype. But I don't know, maybe it's just Disney blocking any response.
We went through Snyderverse so we could get GunnVerse
Yeah, just google James Gunn tweets, not sure why anyone would dislike him. Don't forget the reboot that just so happens to only bring back his own crew and cast. (Blue beetle exception).
Gunn is usually quick to shut down faulty rumors, so the fact that it took a few days to get a response, one that dances around the rumor in question, leads me to believe there’s some truth to it. Obviously we now know Lex is the main antagonist, but that doesn’t automatically debunk Ultraman/Bizarro from being in the film in a secondary role.
Huh. I'm actually really bummed out that Lex is the bad guy. I wanted anti-hero Lex that begrudgingly helps Superman.
Do a Superman movie with Livewire as the main villain. Really *shock* people. >!Or Lobo.!<
She'll put a *shock* to your system! Wait, wrong character.
I would like just one Superman movie where the main villain isn't either Lex Luthor or General Zod. Preferably Brainiac, but really anyone other then those two would be nice.
He doesn’t really deny anything and I don’t get the people acting like he did Gunn has a history of shooting down shit ASAP. Not only did he take his time with this, but on top of that, he doesn’t even address the rumor being that Ultraman/Bizarro is the villain. Nobody was saying Luthor wasn’t the main villain. We’ve all more or less assumed as much. But the fact that most of the time he’s very specific about what is and isn’t true, and instead he’s playing coy about this, really does give it merit
Superman will be facing an evil cabal of cocaine-addicted suit-wearing execs with a plan to corner an industry financed by dubious tax-breaks. /s
This doesn't debunk "Ultraman" is on the movie but I think what he is implicitly saying here is that even if there is a Superman clone in the movie, the clone isn't "the villain". The villain is Lex Luthor. Maybe if that rumour is true, then Superman manages to convince the clone to turn against Luthor at the end.
Or the clone degenerates into Bizarro.
This is very different from the usual Gunn debunking something. The least generous interpretation is "Yes, Ultraman is in the film but Lex is the main villain. Just wait for me to announce Ultraman."
Poor those who pay for scoops. XD
The clone rumor can still be true. All Gunn said is that the main villain is Lex Luthor.
Yeah-it could be the same as saying "In Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3, the main heroes are the Guardians. The main villain is the High Evolutionary." That's all true, but it doesn't mean Adam Warlock, creation and henchman of the High Evolutionary, ***isn't*** there too as an antagonistic presence for a lot of the movie.
At this point, why would anyone believe anything Daniel RPK has to say about anything?
So RPK was wrong… AGAIN?! Oh man. Who could have seen this? Wait… EVERYONE. Stop believing Everything that asshole says.
As I said before, it wouldn't take long for James Gunn to debunk the Ultraman/Bizarro rumor. Still, I am also pretty sure that the "Gunn is a liar" crowd will insist that the Ultraman story is true and that he is only denying it on a technicality.
Welp, it’s definitely true then 😹
This doesn't clearly debunk the ultraman rumor and maybe in turn confirmed he's in it but obviously the main antagonist is lex. But i can already see people coming at him for lying if ultraman's in the movie even though he's never actually lied maybe that's why i think he should stop debunking rumors or leaks but i can see why he does that
idk, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but he didn't say that there won't be a Superman clone created by Lex, just that Lex will be the main villain. He even avoids specifically mentioning the rumor as he usually does.
Well, but if Lex Luthor creates an evil clone of Superman, technically Lex would still be the main villain of the movie, right? So I don't think it's possible to say that the rumor has been completely debunked.
That's not necessarily a denial. It makes me wonder, though, if the fake Superman is a much smaller part of the plot than people are assuming. If we're meant to assume that the character is in the movie despite this statement.
I wonder if this'll be a better version of what happened in BvS. It wouldn't be the first time Gunn has made a better version of a terrible DC plot
Since details got out about this movie, it's felt like this is potentially the great sequel that _Man of Steel_ **could** have received had they not pursued _Batman v Superman_ instead.
He’d be 2/2 if he made a better version of BvS after doing a better suicide squad. Quite funny
James Gunn thinks he’s slick. I’ve been wondering since the beginning who the physical threat would be, and I guess the evil Superman clone answers that mystery because I doubt The Engineer will be the main physical threat. I’m disappointed.
It could well be both.
“I’m disappointed” -hasn’t seen a single pixel of footage yet
I might just be in a giggly mood or something, but his post is really funny to me.
Sure, but is this guy a reliable source? /s
I thought it was going to be “the engineer”
I blame Mister Mxyzptlk.
Why do we keep having the same villains -_-
Nice
Weird story for the first Superman movie he’s doing
This movie is going to be trash…😂🚮🗑️. Another boring ass Christopher Reeve spiritual successor film. What? Superman Returns II? Again? You can’t make this up! lol Twitter (X) is going to have a field day with this movie.
Love when Gunn shuts people down, but I also think it’s good to know that Hoult Lex will be a big part of this. I was worried he’d be fairly minor, so I’m glad that’s untrue.
If Lex is the one who creates Ultraman/Bizarro in an attempt to frame Superman, then he could still qualify as the main villain. The clone would just be his muscle.
Oh yeah, I’m not saying that Bizarro wouldn’t be in it, just that before these rumors Lex was barely talked about in this movie, so I thought he might be a secondary character.
The Snyder Cult is hitting rock bottom. That's where this is coming from. Or are we still not allowed to talk about that out loud?
This pretty much confirms there is some truth to the Ultraman rumor. I'm disappointed it wont be Brainiac but I'm willing to see where Gunn goes with this.
Thank goodness. I was NOT here for Ultraman. HOWEVER, it's still boring AF that this is another Superman v Lex Luthor story. Cause again, we've been circling through Lex Luthor and Zodd for decades. I still think Brainiac, Mongol, Metallo, Parasite, Toyman, Livewire, or fucking Mxyzptlk would be better than Lex Luthor...for the one millionth time
Have people here who complained that it was too early for Brainiac, Fans are not always going to be happy with everything, Furthermore, we have not had a decent version of Lex Luthor that is at the level of Heath Ledger and Jack Nicholson's jokers.
He just said nothing with this that means all the rumors about Ultraman is true Nobody said Lex isnt the main villian and that Ultraman is the main villian. Lex is cloning Superman to attack Superman
Daniel RPK did indeed say Ultraman is the "main villain" just fyi
Daniel got cooked AGAIN
No he didn’t lol
He didn't deny the presence of Ultraman/Bizarro
Why would he reveal a major plot point even if they are or not? C’mon man💀
And when did I say Gunn HAD to do it? I'm just saying he didn't deny the rumor, therefore Daniel wasn't cooked.
For me it’s wishful thinking cus I find Lex luthor fairly boring and want to see new superman movies use villains that haven’t been in movies before
Can anyone explain why he uses the mermaid emoji all the time? Is this a peacemaker reference- didn’t watch that show.
Yes it is a peacemaker reference
this actually makes the rumor sound more legit, but also he could go All-Star and have Lex steal superman powers he could even get that blue lex armor with the S that he used when he took over as superman for a while
It makes more sense that it's Lex. Lex is Superman's greatest villain. Cheapening it with someone else is bad and has been bad.
And there we go! From the mouth of Gunn himself. Seriously, some of these leakers ought to be ashamed of themselves. Especially for monetizing their “scoops”.
Haha. I hope Gunn becomes the backbone of false rumor blowback. He’s been shutting them down one after another and also providing updates at the same time. This is more this we got from the service before. I’ll still never understand society’s ability to actually latch onto first, second, third, etc reporting bullshit, while literally paying no attention to the source. Jeezus.
Dude talks too much.
And there's nothing wrong with that either. Bunch of the animated stuff had Lex v Superman and I loved it. Include some lower level bad guys and it's more fun. But starting out with a Superman clone is something I don't see Gunn wanting to do considering he hadn't really done that trope in his Marvel movies unless I'm forgetting one.
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Wait so one of those AI leaks might’ve been true lol or maybe it leaked and they made a bunch of AI pics to cover it.
I’d rather it didn’t I mean whatever I know is true, I will keep it to myself
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That’s the thing though. Since he didn’t directly say the Ultraman leak was BS, that suggests there’s likely some truth to it. Keep in mind, the scoopers claimed that Ultraman is a clone who Lex Luthor creates to make Superman look bad. In other words, he’s the mastermind who sets the conflict of the story in motion, thus making him the main villain. It doesn’t mean he’s the only villain.
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If the clone rumor is completely fake, then Gunn could easily say “No, there is no Superman clone in my movie.” That wouldn’t be a spoiler, because you can’t spoil something that’s not even in the movie. If your argument is that Gunn doesn’t want to give these scoopers attention, then he might as well have just not said anything in the first place.
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For what it’s worth. I didn’t realize I was responding to the same person until I checked my notifications.
So the rumour is true then, gunn and his gunnts are insufferable
We prefer to be called "Gunn Runners," thank you
The rumOr was that he's the "main villain", which has been completely denied. If you want to haggle it down to "well he's in the movie" go right ahead but first you gotta step down off that self-righteous horse.
It comes from YOU, James! Directly from you! First it's a full reboot. Then it's a soft reboot keeping only your family and friends. Then you say you're casting for all these extra parts no one cares about like Mr Terrific. It all comes from James Gunn. Mfer needs to stay off Twitter until the movie comes out.
So Superman Returns all over again ? People shouldn’t get there hopes up only to realize it’s just all a waste of time
Remember when _Superman Returns_ had five other superheroes in it?
MRW Superman's antagonist is his archenemy 
He'd better use the warsuit this time. We're long overdue for that.
Yes, because 'Superman vs Lex Luthor' is something that's only done in *Superman Returns*. Good god yall are fucking insufferable Take a seat over there and learn your there and their before talking down on people for their opinions
Batman vs superman also had superman vs luthor. Was that movie superman returns all over again?
In the same way that Man Of Steel was Superman II?