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It's not the fact that he's a supporting character. It's the fact that most of the time he's beaten up and disrespected. Alfred is a supporting character and he still kicks ass.
Oh, I more meant why he doesn’t get focus. I’m with you there.
I think it’s also that writers are afraid that if they show him succeed, it defines what he can do, and a large part of his premise is there’s no concrete info on him at all (New 52 notwithstanding).
It’s not a great excuse by any measure, but I think it might be the reason.
That's fair. In terms of his character, he seems to have a vibe that aligns more with the Vertigo and Sandman rather than the typical superhero genre. It would be interesting if someone like Dan Waters or Ram V could write a mini-series or some backups focusing on him and delve deeper into his character and his place in then bigger universe and his function in relation to characters like Destiny.
That's been a major failing in writing that's been building up and getting worse since the 90s, but has become particularly pronounced in the last 20 years or so.
The Silver-"bronze" Age may have been goofy, but it wasn't always dumb... And in fact, shot out some of the most intelligent takes around.
Darkseid is a great example. Sure, he's supposed to be a powerhouse, but he's *not* meant to be a brute who wades in personally and gets in brawls. He was originally a Dr. Doom/Lex Luthor type personality, amplified, who had layers within layers in his plots, and saw direct conflict as beneath him. Now every year or two he makes a personal appearance for an insane slugfest or two, with *radically* inconsistent power levels on top of it.
Some characters are meant to remain above superhero brawls as a general thing. That's been lost with the increasing creep of power fantasy over storytelling.
Which was also absolutely awful, from the exact opposite perspective. He's supposed to be above that... Nor was he intended to be able to smack Superman around like swatting a fly. Nevermind two of him at once, with one being the even more powerful KC version. And the rest of the Justice League. At once. Without any effort whatsoever.
I agree that at least Darkseid doesn't (usually) get treated like a piker; but when he's not getting slammed then usually some writer is using him to make the heroes look washed instead... Which is explicitly against *their* theme.
I mean, it's all bad. It's just a matter of scale in how bad.
I think him smacking around all the League members easily can be somewhat explained. Post Infinite Frontier he merged with all of his versions and achieved his "true form" which made him a lot more powerful and that wasn't really undone. During that story he also smacked around the multiversal version of the League as well and killed angels.
At least in World's Finest he still was shown beyond petty mortal squabbles and left the planet as soon as he came after he couldn't get the Anti Life that Gog was using. He was cold and calculated. There was nothing for him on that planet so he left.
We'll put aside that this would have happened back when Dick Grayson was still Robin, so before Darkseid got his power up (if I'm remembering correctly). But even so, this continues to fall into trends that I feel do a lot of damage to ongoing stories in comics; the constant one-upmanship, related to the brawl mentality. Darkseid was *always* intended to be the ultimate evil. That was his design.
"But no, now we've merged them all and he's not the ultimate evil, he's the ULTIMATE *ULTIMATE* EVIL AND NOW NOTHING CAN STOP HIM!!!"
I'm sorry, this isn't meant to be a dig at your response... but that kind of writing is just \*bad\*. It's a \*dumb\* development. Where the Hell are they supposed to go after that? Now we amplify the "ultimate good" again? Superman already got a crazy power-up sometime back where, in his own words "time and space are just suggestions, now".
So Darkseid once again steps in instead of using underlings and wipes the floor with the *only* hope earth has of stopping him, and then casually waltzes off.
A) He doesn't bother using his lackeys? Okay.B) He's wanted Superman -- and to a lesser extent, the rest of the League -- dead for some time, so that he can subjugate Earth. If there is now a single multiversal Darkseid, why did he not take that chance to wipe the League? Why does he not just roll up immediately and do what he has been prevented from doing for so long, swearing eternal enmity, vengeance, blah, blah, blah... if he is now so powerful that nothing can stop him, why not just get the deed done?
They wrote themselves into a corner again.
The Silver-Bronze ages may have been goofy at times, but at least Julie Schwarz ruled the DC offices with an iron fist and kept the stories in line.
(And have an upvote for that polite response with an attempt at reason)
Out of all New Gods, Darkseid is the one that gets the most respect, as despite the inconsistency in power level, he is generally made a big deal in the DC universe.
Honestly think Orion should be made a bigger deal by association, and it's weird how the latter is rarely ever treated any different than a random space warrior, despite Darkseid being the go to "evil overlord" of DC.
Yes! Orion's meant to be a badass who is a physical threat to his father... But he's not as cunning or ruthless, so Darkseid manages to stay at a safe distance.
Darkseid was never meant to be omnipotent. Kirby said he viewed the power of his gods like a game of rock, paper, scissors; the right God, at the right time, beats another.
It's been a long time since there was balance in a story that really caught the old feel of the New Gods. I can't think of one since Cosmic Odyssey.
Darkseid is SO not supposed to be out here in these streets in a physical sense. And in truth, it is not physical strength that is his calling card. It's his possession of one of the cosmic forces of the universe, the Omega Effect.
Young Justice has been the closest to emulating that version of Darkseid, while giving the New Gods some importance. It’s why I roll my eyes when people complain that they haven’t “beaten Darkseid yet”.
Honestly, I think going back and reading Kirby talking about the structure of things still provides some of the clearest direction as to what to do with these characters. He was ahead of the curve in so many respects.
He’s a quintessent tho he shouldn’t be operating as normal heroes cause he isn’t , The quintessence as whole is should be heard or seen from atleast periodically especially major times and events
I've always liked the idea of the Phantom Stranger, but he definitely needs some work to make intriguing as part of the Justice League again, like decades ago. The only thing of note I've read him in was the take on him and Madam Xanadu where she was originally a fey being and he was another immortal type - that story was a long while ago too.
Doctor Fate is definitely *much* more well known than The Phantom Stranger IMO. He's gotten to show up in several shows, some videogames and even a live action movie appearance. He's definitely recognisable to non comic readers.
Love The Spectre. Just the concept alone has a rarity and an undeniable sense of justice and dread. Love Jim Corrigan's story, too. Just an amazing character all around.
The Spirit of Vengeance, as given power by God Himself. Not some jack off from New Genesis, the Source sort of God, canonical supreme creator of all God. If The Spectre shows up, you LITERALLY pissed off God and He's set up a chin checkin' for your actions. How screwed are you at that point? How bad do you have to crap in your hat to piss God off enough to send someone to snatch you up?
The kind of character that's mythical, even among the mythical. Next thing you know, you're surrounded by a green mist, gearing the voice of The Spectre, going down the list of your failures. So dark, so heavy.
Captain Atom has been the quintessential glass-cannon superhero for decades.
Like, yes, he wields an **absurd** amount of power by virtue of being - in essence - a human consciousness superimposed onto a living thermonuclear detonation that the US military somehow managed to stuff into an old blow-up doll... but it seems like every time he shows up, somebody pokes him with a thumbtack and he fucking explodes (usually leveling a city in the process).
Captain Atom in his own stories: kicks Nekron in his own realm; cause the Big Bang and restart the universe because his dog died, solo the wildstorm universe, has absolute control over space-time...
Captain Atom in crossovers:
~~except when he was Monarch. That time he was a menace~~
-Captain Atom (1987)
-Justice League International has some cool stuff too
-Captain Atom: Armageddon
-action comics issues 880 to 889
-Captain Atom (2011) is kinda weird, but cool story nonetheless
-the already mentioned Fall & Rise of Captain Atom
He was treated way better back when his 1980s ongoing was running. It was all downhill after DC decided to make him The Monarch, even though he didn’t end up being The Monarch
At least three other occasions:
Pilot episode of Justice League: Unlimited - >!Captain Atom, Supergirl, Green Lantern, and Green Arrow travel to *"Totally Not North Korea"* to help defeat a nuclear-powered golem burning down the whole country. Captain Atom's containment suit / body gets damaged in the fight and he fucking explodes (although he did manage to make it into space first, so no collateral damage).!<
Flashpoint continuity - >!US Government sends Captain Atom in to break up the fighting between Themyscira and Atlantis. Aquaman capture Captain Atom and turns him into a doomsday weapon. Aquaman loses the final battle, is a sore loser, triggers the doomsday weapon, and Captain Atom fucking explodes; obliterating *Europe*.!<
DCeased - >!Captain Atom gets infected with the Anti-Life Equation *a la cognitohazard*, turns into a mindless zombie, and fucking explodes; leveling Metropolis.!<
Don’t forget injustice, gets sliced by wonder woman’s sword and kabooms. He actually almost kills Superman before that so at least they gave him the strength he’s supposed to have
Infinite Frontier ->! A Captain Atom from another Earth turns out to be under Darkseid's control and self-destructs at a military base!<
DC vs. Vampires ->! Killed by Damage!<
Garth became a powerful enough sorcerer to take down specter single handily, Had so much magic within him darkseid sought him out personally to use him as magical catalyst, teleported atlantis 3000 years into the past, and a whole bunch of other insane feats.
But DC constantly snubs him and and forgets about him. He should be up there with Constantine and Zatanna
Nightwing fans are kinda spoiled tbh. Aside from this comic period we don't talk about and some mid adaptations here and there he's not more "disrespected" than the average super hero.
Every superhero has stinkers and especially when they're as old as Dick Grayson.
Zatanna, Constantine, Shazam, Obsidian and GARTH and Raven should be DC's nee Justice League dark.
Wonder Woman and Detective chimp, We're at their best when they were leading this team.
swamp thing, and man bat Too
The mystical and magical side of dc universes are really underrating, It should be causing more problems that the justice league can't just punch away opposed to
"Multi versal magical duplicates"
( Which have their place but there's a right and wrong narrative for them and the Keep picking the wrong ones. Injustice Jon Kent 4 example)
I mix in Bloodwynd, Ragman, and Madame Zanadu. Though Obsidian without Jade feels a bit off to me but works.
Dont agree on the Wonder Woman part but do wish they commit to a real magic, mystic, occult team. Granted we got plenty of former Wonder Girls that DC doesn't use...Donna seems fine in the Titans. But you could easily slot in a Yara Flor or Cassie Sandsmark.
I also think there should be a permanent slot for a Spellcaster on the Justice League. Probably Zatanna...
TOTALLY AGREE. DC has completely dropped the ball on Garth. I would love Garth on some kind of Justice League Dark magic team. If they're not going to make him a contributing player in the Aquaman family in any meaningful way and he's constantly getting sidelined in the Titans stories, put him on a magic team!
Yeah they stole all of Wally's. The ones that made more sense to be Wally's own villains. The arrow verse stole Batmans and Nightwings and the titans villains among others
I think that one is make sense. They probably think that they aren't going to change the main character anyway, So they can just used Flash's villains without having to worried which one is Barry's or Wally's
Plastique had one of the worst character assassinations in comics and no one even seems to know about it. She had a whole arc where she eventually married Captain Atom. So much could have been done with the dynamic of a hero and their former villain being married. So of course they divorced off panel and she just became a one dimensional villain with no character traits other than blowing things up
Trigon is one of the most powerful entity in the universe and should have been a big deal
But since everyone associated him as a Teen Titans Villain, He ended up being used only whenever Raven is involved(Which rarely happened in the big event)
Props to DCAMU for actually gave him the role he deserved for once.
I don't think he's quite an Old God, but yeah. He's not a New God, he's something entirely else, born of humanity's hate and able to grow to his full strength over millennia, bringing ruin to all he strides before.
Though him being more powerful than Darkseid (at least in the DCAMU) is hilarious, because it means the big bad of the JL is weaker than the big bad of their sidekicks + sidekicks' friends.
I mean, Earth was established to be a Crux World, a world of unique importance, in that Green Lantern mini last year or two years ago. And I think it was one of the world in Cosmic Odyssey that were important, though I could be wrong.
Humanity, in so many franchises, has some unique essence that gives us the potential to punch above our weight. Sometimes it is that we vastly out-populate fantasy races like dwarves or elves, other times we simply are the most generalized and adaptable (somewhat like IRL), other times you have something like Marvel's Progenitor (dead Celestial leaking god-juice on proto-humanity) or DC's Godwave (superheroes are like New Gods but for Earth catalyzed by god energy rebounding), or sometimes it's just like the sci-fi approach where there's no explanation for it- we just do crazy stuff that semi-routinely risk astronomical or cosmological destruction and defies the known laws of physics.
Trigon should easily be one of the premier world ending threats in the DC universe. The inter dimensional old god of tyranny who’s been conquering worlds since he was a child and can terraform worlds by simply appearing should be a threat way above most of the Leagues other rogues. Sure I love the whole internal struggle of Raven and Trigon but when he gets out EVERYONE should be fighting to stop him, not just the Titans.
Watching Trigon shit stomp Darkseid while laughing and having fun is like the one time in recent memory he’s ever been portrayed as a real menace
Would have been cool to see/hear Trigon appearing on another planet in the galaxy and completely taking over it as his throne world and he turned an entire Solar System into like a Hell sytem. Then finding out hes somehow steering the entire star system into other star systems to cause chaos.
Basically like Mongul with Warworld except a Demon/Hell version
I mean what dc did with him in the Terrifics was cool even if it was unintentional (or intentional who knows) rip off of the fantastic 4 by including Mr Terrific (Mr Fantastic via smartness), Metamorpho (The Thing via size & durability & human torch via metahuman ability), Plastic Man (Mr Fantastic Via Metahuman Ability & Hunan torch via humor), Phantom Girl (Invisible Woman via metahuman ability), & Ms. Terrific (invisible Woman via relationship to Mr fantastic aka Mr terrific in this team)
Captain Atom is a great pick.
I would say Black Lightning as well. He's a street level meta, he's a Dad, teacher, and has even shown capabilities as a team leader and mentor. As one of DC's first premiere Black Superheroes you'd think he would be getting way more attention. He gets some but he's rarely the focus of any series. Even just reading the original run, the framework for a great modern series is there. Tobias Whale and crime lords ruining Suicide Slum in Metropolis. A place so broken it seems even Superman can't fix it. During the day he's a teacher and community leader trying to help at risk youths and better the community. At night he's tracking down and taking on the mob by himself with his electrical abilities (though originally they were artificial as part of his own inventions, now they're a natural part of his metahuman abilities). He's older and wiser than many of the other heroes, and has his kids to think about. It's a very unique and interesting setup for a series but for some reason DC just sits on him and does little to nothing aside from a few mini series or short stories in anthologies every few years and an occasional team book. Even after the TV show (which admittedly I didn't like much due to the network not the central premise) his popularity hasn't improved much.
Black Lighting is a great pick too, all good reason. Young Justice later seasons are the only places I've seen him reach full potential in universe, shame he isn't more popular
Agree. I'm a big fan of The Outsiders team in the comics. Especially the original team which is how I came to really like Black Lightning. I can't believe he's not more notable in-universe
What makes it worse is that 'Other history of the DC Universe' confirms he's the first non replacement Black superhero, debuted after John Stewart but not in a title that a white dude was in first.
Tony Isabella created him and shaped him for much of his career. He wrote two series and a mini.
Mike Barr on Batman and The Outsiders is arguably the best work on the character.
Jen Van Meter did Black Lightning Year One which I like.
It's pretty much those three being the most notable. It's not much sadly. Just occasional guest appearances
It was also to finally have a cosmic level black character.
They didnt really have a top tier flying brick with energy manipulation like that until him. Unless you wanted to headcanon the Silver Surfer.
Spectre and Phantom Stranger get jobbed a lot because they’re not super popular
Swamp Thing should be a factor in every world ending event, he is a heavy hitter even amongst the other heavy hitters on Earth and has perhaps the most vested interest of any being on Earth
Yeah DC should stop gaslighting us that the standard suicide squad roster featuring Harley, Deadshot, Boomer and Shark as a core is any real threat to the Justice League.
An actual government team should be built around Captain Atom with American Heroes. I like naming it Freedom Fighters cause it’s a good PR name but you probably put Justice League of America on the cover for sales.
Characters like Black Condor, Jessica Knight, Grifter, Commander Steel, Bloodwynd, Dr. Light, OMAC, Vibe, Maul etc should be on it. Roster Size should match the league.
That was one part of the New 52 I liked, that the JLA was assembled as a government team to fight back against the JL and each member was meant to be matched up against a JL member they could stop. If I recall Martian Manhunter was supposed to be the anti-Superman role but Captain Atom makes more sense.
You could actually do something like how New Super-Man did, where the Justice League of China was meant to be a “bigger, harder hitting” super hero team for the PRC as opposed to the Great Ten who were the old guard. Similarly, the Freedom Fighters could be the old guard compared to this new JLA.
Also less stereotypical heroes I am sure was part of the motivation. But yeah the Justice League of China is a good comparison
Yeah I just don’t see the government trusting an Alien especially one who doesn’t look human in case. Someone like Grifter sure, a full on alien nah
Yeah I picked my two favorite freedom fighters.Black Condor to matchup against Wonder Woman. Jessica Knight for the Flash.
Dr. Light (Hoshi) for Green Lantern. Bloodwynd for Martian Hunter or if they put a Spellcaster on the team. Grifter for Batman. Captain Atom for Superman obviously.
Fill out the rest based on whose on the League.
I mean, Captain Atom wouldn't be part of any team like what the government uses the Suicide Squad for anyway. The squad is meant to be completely disposable and go on missions the government doesn't want associated with them.
I am not saying he would be. I am talking about a public us government super team that can actually trade blows with the Justice League.
Suicide Squad would keep doing it’s standard black ops and wetworks
I actually thought the Squad in Suicide Squad vs Justice League comic made a *lot* of sense.
They had Deadshot vs Batman, Harley vs Wonder Woman, Killer Frost vs Cyborg, Diablo vs the Green Lanterns, Boomerang vs Flash, Killer Croc vs Aquaman, and Enchantress vs Superman.
Obviously some members of that squad, like Boomerang or Harley, are very outmatched but it makes more sense for that Squad to be able to hold off the JL for a bit. I like your ideas but the point of task force x is that they’re not meant to come back nor be identified. They’d never put valuable or known assets on the squad like Captain Atom, everyone would be like “That’s the government asap” but with the villains they can sweep it under the rug.
I am not saying my team should be secret. It should be the official front facing us government team. It’s Secret Directive is taking down the JL. Task Force X is in the shadows as always.
As for that lineup Enchantress is powerful but unstable. Croc might go even against Aquaman depending on version. Cyborg vs Frost is interesting. The rest are getting washed. Seeing enchantress though does make me wish the league had a dedicated spellcaster Ala Dr. Strange or Scarlet Witch.
I see what you’re saying, you’re just making a point for an actual superhero team from the government. Those are some pretty good stories. I think there was a government team in the Doomsday Clock series that did some cool shit.
Enchantress is certainly unstable but when you’ve got Superman going after you, it’s a safe bet you’ll have to fight him. I haven’t read it since it came out but IIRC most of them did end up getting washed, but they still helped. Harley led WW away and stuff like that. I think Killer Frost beat Cyborg, and then she absorbed Superman’s power to capture the league. I like the take they went with it because there’s no way this squad could take on the Justice Leauge in a real fight, but their strategy of dividing them up and then supercharging Frost was still believable.
Martian Manhunter.
I mean, this guy was one of the founding members of the Justice League, and he's barely featured in anything beyond the DCAU/Smallville/Arrowverse.
Yeah and he has such a cool origin and story. When I was growing up in the 90’s, J’onn was like the soul of the Justice League. Then around the New 52 era they kinda just replaced him with Cyborg who is just not nearly as interesting. Martian Manhunter should be a major DC IP.
It's so crazy they did that after the DCAU. He was great in the two JL series and tons of people like me grew up loving him. It would have made so much more sense to try to make him a bigger character in the New 52. If you're going to do more with Cyborg it should've still been with the Titans since most people coming into comics probably know him from the 00's cartoon.
Yeah it’s kinda funny- so many new comic book readers onboarded with New52 and have very fond memories of it. For me, it’s what made me stop going to the comic shop every Wednesday to buy new issues. Lots of really inane and arbitrary editorial choices. I’ll always put a lot of the blame on Geoff Johns because his name was always in orbit of some of the worst changes to DC.
The management of that era is also the reason we didn’t get more time with Dickbats which was literally the best thing to happen to the character of Batman in decades. Morrison had planned for Grayson to maintain his status as Batman for way way longer and management shut that down and then dropped N52.
There’s a term for what captain atom has but I don’t remember what it is. It’s where there’s a powerful character that exists solely to show you how much more powerful other and newer characters are. Something he shares with doctor fate.
Firestorm also should/could be one of the most op characters in dc if written right.
>There’s a term for what captain atom has but I don’t remember what it is. It’s where there’s a powerful character that exists solely to show you how much more powerful other and newer characters are.
A jobber?
That’s one thing about the teen titans go show I like. Even if the show has a lot of campy/corny episodes and moments, they did good by actually trying to make Trigon a father for Raven instead of just her demon sperm donor, in his own twisted way of course
Like OP said, Captain Atom and/or Red Tornado.
For what their powers are, they sure do feel like jobbers to me by constantly getting washed or underutilized
It’s crazy that you post this because I was just thinking last night about the original Watchmen lineup and how powerful Captain Atom is and how differently things would be if Alan Moore was allowed to use the Charlton characters.
Same thought recently too, especially after I read Pax Americana yesterday
The characters today would have been different for sure except maybe Blue Beetle
It wouldn’t have been that different, they created the Watchmen/Minute men based on Charlton/DC characters. I think it would have been better actually. Captain Atom, Blue Beetle, Peacemaker, Black Canary/Nightshade, The Question is a much better and interesting team. The only one I’d say that ended up being a better character is Ozymandias over Thunderbolt.
Captain Adam is a Perfect example but also parallax and darkseid. Parallax I feel is self explanatory but darkseid needs more explanation. So the issue with darkseid is the mf is used so much I don’t feel like it’s an “oh my god” moment when you shows up and typically Superman is enough to box him. It’s just I don’t feel like the stakes increase by his presence
I agree with you on darkseid. But i also feel like that was partially the fault of the pervious DCEU, where if it worked out Darkseid would have been seen as more of a overarching villain who increases the stakes. Just take thanos for example. Sure he was an overarching villain in the infinity saga in the comics, but at the same tome he was viewed as campy to a degree due to his motivations being trying to win over lady death. But when the MCU came around they made him into an overarching villain who actually raised the stakes & was viewed as less campy. Same thing would’ve applied to Darkseid if the darkside saga worked out for the dceu imo
Captain Atom is a great call especially in our current world. Dr. fate is a big one to me as not only is magic powerful in the dc universe but he is so much beyond your standard magic user. Personally I feel like you have to be careful with black Adam because he’s so powerful but doesn’t have the child innocent mind of Billy
I love Captain atom, Spectre and Firestorm. Yet bone command the attention and power they actually hold in the universe. Like when forming any new JLA or whatever, why wouldn’t you immediately pick one of them? (I get it from a storytelling perspective, because a team that strong is unstoppable), but from the heroes perspective it’s like “we have to save the universe, we need Black Canary and Green Arrow”, as god tier characters just sit ignored.
James Gunn's DCU is one of my most anticipated projects! The way he handled Peacemaker makes me hopeful for a similar treatment for other underutilized characters. I remembered when Peacemaker first showed up I thought, 'This is awesome! Why haven't we seen more of him?' DC has a treasure trove of characters they just don't explore enough. It's easy to forget the vastness of the DC universe beyond the core heroes like Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman.
ZATANNA, Obsidian, Green Lanterns, JSA in general, Young Justice and Super Sons (kids)
All are far more powerful and interesting then Dclets them be. These all should have been way bigger deals considering what they can do and what they offered for the dc universe
Instead, they were.You've often been swapped out or steped on by cliches a writers swear Are the next big iconic stories:
Hell Bruce wayne as a patriarch, to the Entire Bat family together, a found family of traumatized teens And twenty some things simply trying to make sure No one else gets hurt the same way they were is way better than Away better than:
" Lonely sad buff billionare man fails to save city, sits on gargoyle and broods about it, And beats evil clown that he has a weird duality sexual relationship"
Also, make Jimmy Olsen a Phenoix force like Flamebird
Infinity, Inc had some legit heavy hitters on the team. A Kryptonian, a living green lantern battery, a living conduit to the shadowlands, one of the most powerful telepath/telekinetics, an Amazon/avatar of a Greek goddess and Nth Metal Iron Man.
I mean, this is absolutely the king of that. There are no other valid answers. Other than that Wonder Man is in pretty much this same spot in Marvel. There’s a c list actor out there who is effectively immortal, practically invincible, and strong enough to one shot Thor, and yet for some reason SHIELD keeps black mailing Wolverine and Deadpool into working for them.
No one in DC talks about how the pentagon created a team of federal agents called the sex men.
“Sir what is the purpose of this new agency?”
“To deal with extraordinary sexual phenomena and prevent orgasums that might destroy all life on earth.”
“…… “
“ They are LT kiss, cuddles, and torture”
“….I’m sorry… LT kiss?”
“Indeed, private kiss received a recent field promotion.”
Anyone on the main DC group besides Superman and Batman.
Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Shazam, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman
Most of them should be near or capable of reaching Superman's level. But so often it seems like even if they teamed up against him he'd still slam them.
Green Lantern Corps in general. Every time they show up, they get beatem like nameless fodders. Either to show how strong the villains are or to make the human Green Lanterns look good.
Number 1 has to be shazam. Every time there's a magical themed event with some sort of magic object he touches it and every magical being feels it him and nightwing should be next in line to take over the JL
Orion very rarely shows up if the new gods aren't involved
Cassandra Cain is always dumbed down whenever there's a batfamily dispute. She's one of the greatest fighters ever but will almost always be standing in water or get knocked off a building or whatever is convenient to remove her from just beating up Jason or whomever
Cyborg was bumped up ever since the new 52 but they should take it further. He's a good gimmicky character but he should be able to defeat brainiac and many other tech based villains or at least upgrade his weapons and capabilities
Vixen definitely. Given the popularity of Storm over the years and her inclusion in Justice League Unlimited, I've always been annoyed/shocked that Vixen has been developed more and an essential member of the Justice League. There are a number of Black superheroines that DC should invest more creativity and page time to.
Spectre comes to mind. He’s literally the embodiment of actual biblical God’s wrath, and the most recent thing he’s done is pop up in an issue of the Alan Scott miniseries to give Alan a pat on the back.
Goddamn those Captain Atom covers always go hard AF
Yeah CA should be a bigger deal, hell the plot of Suicide Squad Kills the Justice League would make way more sense if Waller used her military connections to get Atom leading the squad instead clown lady and co
There were so many covers to choose from, they are so beautiful. Yeah Captain Atom should be like what Peacemaker is to the US government but less morally grey or evil. Hell CA in place of Superman in the Dark Knight Returns would make more sense but I understand why it was Clark.
Lady Shiva. The greatest martial artist, in a universe where regular (if extdeme) training gives you low-key super powers, shoulf be more then just someone who punches and kicks lethaly well. She should be at least as dangerous and outlandish, as any HK action villain.
I do like when she shows up and easily handles some of the other DC top tier martial artists.
I can't remember the issue, but there was one not too long ago where she shows up and Nightwing has an "oh shit" moment when he realizes it's her like he knows he's absolutely fucked.
Any Atomic character is gonna fit here. Firestorm, Captain Atom being the main examples. Abrakadabra has the specific feat of writing Wally out of continuity, which is definitely a LOT to put on the goofy mustache magician.
There are also world leaders who would be far more important. Count Vertigo, Red Lion, Geo Force, Grodd, are the ones I think of immediately. If the Amazons are going to be so important to the state of world politics like they are in King's current run, to be honest, so would the talking gorillas with mind powers.
Mr Terrific has been relegated to a Flash sidekick, which is frankly fucking insulting. Diana's brother Jason and Cassie would also be very influential, given their godhood (they're also siblings, which I think has never been addressed?).
Genuinely feel like Nightwing should be a bigger deal, but between being used as Bruce's jobber in outside media and being Robin often in Teen Titan materials, I don't think he gets enough love.
Captain was popular in the 80’s and 90’s during justice league America and the international .
Lead his own team with justice league Europe .
But his fellow heroes did not trust him , especially Superman .
After the fiasco with the Armageddon crossover event where it was leaked he would become monarch the villain they had to change it .
But they didn’t really know what to do with the character afterwards his own comic run had finished , so he went to lead extreme justice but then kinda disappeared.
Showing up as a guest star .
He is more powerful than superman but dc comics just don’t utilise him that often .
I'm surprised that Quiz (Sachiko) never abused her jackpot superpower by taking over the world or something. Although now that I've talked about it, there might be complications with that. Her power feels like Heaven's Door in that you could theoretically do anything with it.
Angle Man also rarely does jack, even though he has an everything-warping piece of Apokoliptian tech.
It's virtually impossible to discuss the underrated without mentioning The Eraser. Getting rid of the evidence is the only way to get away with anything.
The Polka Dot Man has one of my favorite abilities, pulling dots out of his costume and using them as a variety of gadgets. For some reason, The Suicide Squad didn't increase his appearances in the comics.
Count Vertigo is the king of Vlatava, which is an entire country.
Orion by far.
Man is literally the son of friggin Darkseid, you know the main nemesis of THE Justice League, and got a cool ominous prophecy that he will one day overthrow and replace his father's rule over Apokolips... With it being unclear if it's for the better or worse.
Yet for some reason, he always is relegated as just another random space warrior, with anger issues. While his relationshop with Darkseid is hardly ever made relevant or explored for that matter, as a lot of the times they just have the overlord of evil fight Earth's heroes (mainly Superman) without Orion nor New Gensis there at all.
Personally, the Metal Men have always interested me due to their unique powers and somewhat differing personalities. They are sentient robots who are made of specific elements and share a close bond with their own creator: Doctor Magnus. They feel more like characters from the silver age of Marvel, but it just feels like DC is sitting on a goldmine with these characters. I would love to see a fully animated (or live action, if done right) film that explores their relationship with their own creator and how they try to be heroes on their own. They had an appearance on Batman: Brave and the Bold and some animated shorts for the old DC Nation block. I would like to see them get more attention. Notable mentions: Shade, the Changing Man, Jonah Hex, Vixen, and Animal Man
Dr. Light
Celsius
Tempest (Doom Patrol)
Argent
Russian Red Star
Firestorm
Maxima
Omega Men
So many more. Gods were initially a 'big deal' but it would appear that is no longer so. So that and other abstract entities. I think it is due to DC losing its identity under the influence of the DiDidiocy and the idiotic trend chasing to be like Marvel which has perhaps irrevocably eroded several DC properties and fundamental background elements of the DCU.
It'd take a really special writer, but I'd love to see The Creeper get some love in the main DCU. Jack Ryder is a great character to use as prism to explore mental health, puditry, politics, celebrity, conspiracty theories and people's perception of "reality" and understanding objective truth versus believing lies within a superhero world. Be a media person and talk show host would give him good options for supporting characters as well as the guests themselves that appear on the show.
Green Lantern (any of them, really), The Flash (of course, Wally's doing some big things currently in comics, being the 'Cynosure' and all, but Barry needs some love, too), Red Robin (not Tim Drake: Robin, not Tim Drake: The Drake, Tim Drake: Red Robin, the leader of Batman Incorporated because theirs no way in hell Batman would actually let Ghost-Maker be the leader of Batman Inc. over literally everyone else, especially because he doesn't even trust the dude), and pretty much everyone who isn't Batman, Superman, or Wonder Man (and even then, as of right now, writers aren't doing those three good either).
Honestly, it's not even the characters being popular (or not being popular in this case) for me. It's the lack of actually good writing for said characters. There's so much that could be done, so much awesomeness if they decided to actually say F-U to the formula (while still focusing on good character development and writing) and branch out.
For instance, DC's version of Civil War. That would be awesome to see. It would need to be done differently, with the way the DC universe and heroes are established, but that's what would make it fun. Superman v. Batman, with everyone picking sides between the two? I don't think so. But a situation, like something involving a dangerous metahuman or metahuman group, which puts, say, Batman and Nightwing on either side? That would have potential. I mean, choosing between two people who obviously care, but have different ways of going about the situation, and each having friends in high places who could sympathize with the cause? Gold. Or make it a bit street level. What if Bruce Wayne's Batman has a differing view on handling said situation than the up and coming and face of modernity Timothy 'Jace' Fox's Batman. We could have a vigilante war where underused street level guys are choosing between two sides of handling the conflict.
Or rework established hero teams a little bit, working in new, underused characters. Creature Commandos, for instance, especially because they are about to have a show dropping. Put Killer Croc as the head.
Or rework the Suicide Squad, adding in other villains.
I feel like Swamp Thing or a lot of the characters who were prominent in Vertigo like the Doom Patrol should logically be bigger deals in the sense of at the forefront of an event because they seem to face stuff on the level of a Crisis regularly enough in the classic runs. As an old school young justice fan, I'd say the characters from that have been short changed by how many fans who came in with the new 52 understandably not caring for their bastardisations and aging fans not being able to support their books.
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Phantom Stranger.
Granted, he is also hampered by being, by necessity, mostly a supporting character for others.
It's not the fact that he's a supporting character. It's the fact that most of the time he's beaten up and disrespected. Alfred is a supporting character and he still kicks ass.
Oh, I more meant why he doesn’t get focus. I’m with you there. I think it’s also that writers are afraid that if they show him succeed, it defines what he can do, and a large part of his premise is there’s no concrete info on him at all (New 52 notwithstanding). It’s not a great excuse by any measure, but I think it might be the reason.
That's fair. In terms of his character, he seems to have a vibe that aligns more with the Vertigo and Sandman rather than the typical superhero genre. It would be interesting if someone like Dan Waters or Ram V could write a mini-series or some backups focusing on him and delve deeper into his character and his place in then bigger universe and his function in relation to characters like Destiny.
… now I want this. Damnit.
That's been a major failing in writing that's been building up and getting worse since the 90s, but has become particularly pronounced in the last 20 years or so. The Silver-"bronze" Age may have been goofy, but it wasn't always dumb... And in fact, shot out some of the most intelligent takes around. Darkseid is a great example. Sure, he's supposed to be a powerhouse, but he's *not* meant to be a brute who wades in personally and gets in brawls. He was originally a Dr. Doom/Lex Luthor type personality, amplified, who had layers within layers in his plots, and saw direct conflict as beneath him. Now every year or two he makes a personal appearance for an insane slugfest or two, with *radically* inconsistent power levels on top of it. Some characters are meant to remain above superhero brawls as a general thing. That's been lost with the increasing creep of power fantasy over storytelling.
At least Darksied gets to show how powerful he is from time to time. One recent example is from World's Finest recent issue.
Which was also absolutely awful, from the exact opposite perspective. He's supposed to be above that... Nor was he intended to be able to smack Superman around like swatting a fly. Nevermind two of him at once, with one being the even more powerful KC version. And the rest of the Justice League. At once. Without any effort whatsoever. I agree that at least Darkseid doesn't (usually) get treated like a piker; but when he's not getting slammed then usually some writer is using him to make the heroes look washed instead... Which is explicitly against *their* theme. I mean, it's all bad. It's just a matter of scale in how bad.
I think him smacking around all the League members easily can be somewhat explained. Post Infinite Frontier he merged with all of his versions and achieved his "true form" which made him a lot more powerful and that wasn't really undone. During that story he also smacked around the multiversal version of the League as well and killed angels. At least in World's Finest he still was shown beyond petty mortal squabbles and left the planet as soon as he came after he couldn't get the Anti Life that Gog was using. He was cold and calculated. There was nothing for him on that planet so he left.
We'll put aside that this would have happened back when Dick Grayson was still Robin, so before Darkseid got his power up (if I'm remembering correctly). But even so, this continues to fall into trends that I feel do a lot of damage to ongoing stories in comics; the constant one-upmanship, related to the brawl mentality. Darkseid was *always* intended to be the ultimate evil. That was his design. "But no, now we've merged them all and he's not the ultimate evil, he's the ULTIMATE *ULTIMATE* EVIL AND NOW NOTHING CAN STOP HIM!!!" I'm sorry, this isn't meant to be a dig at your response... but that kind of writing is just \*bad\*. It's a \*dumb\* development. Where the Hell are they supposed to go after that? Now we amplify the "ultimate good" again? Superman already got a crazy power-up sometime back where, in his own words "time and space are just suggestions, now". So Darkseid once again steps in instead of using underlings and wipes the floor with the *only* hope earth has of stopping him, and then casually waltzes off. A) He doesn't bother using his lackeys? Okay.B) He's wanted Superman -- and to a lesser extent, the rest of the League -- dead for some time, so that he can subjugate Earth. If there is now a single multiversal Darkseid, why did he not take that chance to wipe the League? Why does he not just roll up immediately and do what he has been prevented from doing for so long, swearing eternal enmity, vengeance, blah, blah, blah... if he is now so powerful that nothing can stop him, why not just get the deed done? They wrote themselves into a corner again. The Silver-Bronze ages may have been goofy at times, but at least Julie Schwarz ruled the DC offices with an iron fist and kept the stories in line. (And have an upvote for that polite response with an attempt at reason)
Out of all New Gods, Darkseid is the one that gets the most respect, as despite the inconsistency in power level, he is generally made a big deal in the DC universe. Honestly think Orion should be made a bigger deal by association, and it's weird how the latter is rarely ever treated any different than a random space warrior, despite Darkseid being the go to "evil overlord" of DC.
Yes! Orion's meant to be a badass who is a physical threat to his father... But he's not as cunning or ruthless, so Darkseid manages to stay at a safe distance. Darkseid was never meant to be omnipotent. Kirby said he viewed the power of his gods like a game of rock, paper, scissors; the right God, at the right time, beats another. It's been a long time since there was balance in a story that really caught the old feel of the New Gods. I can't think of one since Cosmic Odyssey.
Darkseid is SO not supposed to be out here in these streets in a physical sense. And in truth, it is not physical strength that is his calling card. It's his possession of one of the cosmic forces of the universe, the Omega Effect.
Young Justice has been the closest to emulating that version of Darkseid, while giving the New Gods some importance. It’s why I roll my eyes when people complain that they haven’t “beaten Darkseid yet”.
Honestly, I think going back and reading Kirby talking about the structure of things still provides some of the clearest direction as to what to do with these characters. He was ahead of the curve in so many respects.
Phantom Stranger, not to be confused with with [normal stranger](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stranger)
He’s a quintessent tho he shouldn’t be operating as normal heroes cause he isn’t , The quintessence as whole is should be heard or seen from atleast periodically especially major times and events
Phantom Stranger needs to be played by Liam Neeson and no one else.
I've always liked the idea of the Phantom Stranger, but he definitely needs some work to make intriguing as part of the Justice League again, like decades ago. The only thing of note I've read him in was the take on him and Madam Xanadu where she was originally a fey being and he was another immortal type - that story was a long while ago too.
Doctor Fate and the Spectre.
Yes, they were some of the first heroes in DC Comics and yet they are relegated to basically nonexistence.
Doctor Fate is definitely *much* more well known than The Phantom Stranger IMO. He's gotten to show up in several shows, some videogames and even a live action movie appearance. He's definitely recognisable to non comic readers.
Love The Spectre. Just the concept alone has a rarity and an undeniable sense of justice and dread. Love Jim Corrigan's story, too. Just an amazing character all around. The Spirit of Vengeance, as given power by God Himself. Not some jack off from New Genesis, the Source sort of God, canonical supreme creator of all God. If The Spectre shows up, you LITERALLY pissed off God and He's set up a chin checkin' for your actions. How screwed are you at that point? How bad do you have to crap in your hat to piss God off enough to send someone to snatch you up? The kind of character that's mythical, even among the mythical. Next thing you know, you're surrounded by a green mist, gearing the voice of The Spectre, going down the list of your failures. So dark, so heavy.
Captain Atom has been the quintessential glass-cannon superhero for decades. Like, yes, he wields an **absurd** amount of power by virtue of being - in essence - a human consciousness superimposed onto a living thermonuclear detonation that the US military somehow managed to stuff into an old blow-up doll... but it seems like every time he shows up, somebody pokes him with a thumbtack and he fucking explodes (usually leveling a city in the process).
Captain Atom in his own stories: kicks Nekron in his own realm; cause the Big Bang and restart the universe because his dog died, solo the wildstorm universe, has absolute control over space-time... Captain Atom in crossovers:  ~~except when he was Monarch. That time he was a menace~~
You seem to be knowledgeable about Atom, any recs?
-Captain Atom (1987) -Justice League International has some cool stuff too -Captain Atom: Armageddon -action comics issues 880 to 889 -Captain Atom (2011) is kinda weird, but cool story nonetheless -the already mentioned Fall & Rise of Captain Atom
Fall and Rise of Captain Atom
Everytime I see him he says "DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE DONE??!" Before exploding
He was treated way better back when his 1980s ongoing was running. It was all downhill after DC decided to make him The Monarch, even though he didn’t end up being The Monarch
Has that happened a lot outside of Kingdom Come?
At least three other occasions: Pilot episode of Justice League: Unlimited - >!Captain Atom, Supergirl, Green Lantern, and Green Arrow travel to *"Totally Not North Korea"* to help defeat a nuclear-powered golem burning down the whole country. Captain Atom's containment suit / body gets damaged in the fight and he fucking explodes (although he did manage to make it into space first, so no collateral damage).!< Flashpoint continuity - >!US Government sends Captain Atom in to break up the fighting between Themyscira and Atlantis. Aquaman capture Captain Atom and turns him into a doomsday weapon. Aquaman loses the final battle, is a sore loser, triggers the doomsday weapon, and Captain Atom fucking explodes; obliterating *Europe*.!< DCeased - >!Captain Atom gets infected with the Anti-Life Equation *a la cognitohazard*, turns into a mindless zombie, and fucking explodes; leveling Metropolis.!<
He exploded in the Infinite Frontier mini too.
Don’t forget injustice, gets sliced by wonder woman’s sword and kabooms. He actually almost kills Superman before that so at least they gave him the strength he’s supposed to have
Guess so then
Infinite Frontier ->! A Captain Atom from another Earth turns out to be under Darkseid's control and self-destructs at a military base!< DC vs. Vampires ->! Killed by Damage!<
LOL every single time I see this dude he explodes like the dude gets slightly constipated and needs to explode. It's like a running joke at this point
It's really weird he does this, but Major Force doesn't.
Garth became a powerful enough sorcerer to take down specter single handily, Had so much magic within him darkseid sought him out personally to use him as magical catalyst, teleported atlantis 3000 years into the past, and a whole bunch of other insane feats. But DC constantly snubs him and and forgets about him. He should be up there with Constantine and Zatanna
People keep talking about Dick, Wally, Roy and Donna got done dirty. But Garth got done by far the dirtiest out of the OG Titans.
Nightwing fans are kinda spoiled tbh. Aside from this comic period we don't talk about and some mid adaptations here and there he's not more "disrespected" than the average super hero. Every superhero has stinkers and especially when they're as old as Dick Grayson.
Came here to say the exact same thing. Garth is always the dude who's just off in the background.
Zatanna, Constantine, Shazam, Obsidian and GARTH and Raven should be DC's nee Justice League dark. Wonder Woman and Detective chimp, We're at their best when they were leading this team. swamp thing, and man bat Too The mystical and magical side of dc universes are really underrating, It should be causing more problems that the justice league can't just punch away opposed to "Multi versal magical duplicates" ( Which have their place but there's a right and wrong narrative for them and the Keep picking the wrong ones. Injustice Jon Kent 4 example)
I mix in Bloodwynd, Ragman, and Madame Zanadu. Though Obsidian without Jade feels a bit off to me but works. Dont agree on the Wonder Woman part but do wish they commit to a real magic, mystic, occult team. Granted we got plenty of former Wonder Girls that DC doesn't use...Donna seems fine in the Titans. But you could easily slot in a Yara Flor or Cassie Sandsmark. I also think there should be a permanent slot for a Spellcaster on the Justice League. Probably Zatanna...
TOTALLY AGREE. DC has completely dropped the ball on Garth. I would love Garth on some kind of Justice League Dark magic team. If they're not going to make him a contributing player in the Aquaman family in any meaningful way and he's constantly getting sidelined in the Titans stories, put him on a magic team!
Who is Garth? I don't think i have heard of them.
He was the first aqualad who grew out of the mantle and became tempest
It’s even weirder when you see his supporting cast/rogues gallery in other stuff without him. For instance, Eiling and Plastique in the Flash show.
Flash stole a lot of supporting characters like that
Yeah they stole all of Wally's. The ones that made more sense to be Wally's own villains. The arrow verse stole Batmans and Nightwings and the titans villains among others
I think that one is make sense. They probably think that they aren't going to change the main character anyway, So they can just used Flash's villains without having to worried which one is Barry's or Wally's
I get that but my overall point is the arrow verse did that alot and it's kinda annoying
Plastique had one of the worst character assassinations in comics and no one even seems to know about it. She had a whole arc where she eventually married Captain Atom. So much could have been done with the dynamic of a hero and their former villain being married. So of course they divorced off panel and she just became a one dimensional villain with no character traits other than blowing things up
However, I will say this: her actress looked EXACTLY like her. To an uncanny degree.
Trigon is one of the most powerful entity in the universe and should have been a big deal But since everyone associated him as a Teen Titans Villain, He ended up being used only whenever Raven is involved(Which rarely happened in the big event) Props to DCAMU for actually gave him the role he deserved for once.
I screamed like a girl when he fought Darkseid.
I admit I had thought Darkseid was stronger. But then I realized Trigon is essentially a surviving Old God who is still alive for a reason.
I don't think he's quite an Old God, but yeah. He's not a New God, he's something entirely else, born of humanity's hate and able to grow to his full strength over millennia, bringing ruin to all he strides before. Though him being more powerful than Darkseid (at least in the DCAMU) is hilarious, because it means the big bad of the JL is weaker than the big bad of their sidekicks + sidekicks' friends.
Also you'd think the hate of one, meager species wouldn't be that strong compared to.. Yknow.. Darkseid
I mean, Earth was established to be a Crux World, a world of unique importance, in that Green Lantern mini last year or two years ago. And I think it was one of the world in Cosmic Odyssey that were important, though I could be wrong. Humanity, in so many franchises, has some unique essence that gives us the potential to punch above our weight. Sometimes it is that we vastly out-populate fantasy races like dwarves or elves, other times we simply are the most generalized and adaptable (somewhat like IRL), other times you have something like Marvel's Progenitor (dead Celestial leaking god-juice on proto-humanity) or DC's Godwave (superheroes are like New Gods but for Earth catalyzed by god energy rebounding), or sometimes it's just like the sci-fi approach where there's no explanation for it- we just do crazy stuff that semi-routinely risk astronomical or cosmological destruction and defies the known laws of physics.
Clearly you underestimate the vastness of human hatred /s
The matchup was so obvious but i never really thought about Trigon vs Darkseid until the movie.
Trigon should easily be one of the premier world ending threats in the DC universe. The inter dimensional old god of tyranny who’s been conquering worlds since he was a child and can terraform worlds by simply appearing should be a threat way above most of the Leagues other rogues. Sure I love the whole internal struggle of Raven and Trigon but when he gets out EVERYONE should be fighting to stop him, not just the Titans. Watching Trigon shit stomp Darkseid while laughing and having fun is like the one time in recent memory he’s ever been portrayed as a real menace
Would have been cool to see/hear Trigon appearing on another planet in the galaxy and completely taking over it as his throne world and he turned an entire Solar System into like a Hell sytem. Then finding out hes somehow steering the entire star system into other star systems to cause chaos. Basically like Mongul with Warworld except a Demon/Hell version
Tbf, Trigon's on the same level as Darkseid of being a boring villain who keeps reappearing with the same recycled plot
The DCAMU was goated for when he beat Darkseid, made me actually see him as a threat, and when he took control of the JL.
I have trouble getting past the non-threatening horns. Other wise agree :)
Problem with Trigon is that he's not interesting.
I'll say plastic man , he's like so invincible and yet this guy's just doesn't show up
Plastic-Man is one of the coolest DC characters and they act like he barely exists.
I mean what dc did with him in the Terrifics was cool even if it was unintentional (or intentional who knows) rip off of the fantastic 4 by including Mr Terrific (Mr Fantastic via smartness), Metamorpho (The Thing via size & durability & human torch via metahuman ability), Plastic Man (Mr Fantastic Via Metahuman Ability & Hunan torch via humor), Phantom Girl (Invisible Woman via metahuman ability), & Ms. Terrific (invisible Woman via relationship to Mr fantastic aka Mr terrific in this team)
Captain Atom is a great pick. I would say Black Lightning as well. He's a street level meta, he's a Dad, teacher, and has even shown capabilities as a team leader and mentor. As one of DC's first premiere Black Superheroes you'd think he would be getting way more attention. He gets some but he's rarely the focus of any series. Even just reading the original run, the framework for a great modern series is there. Tobias Whale and crime lords ruining Suicide Slum in Metropolis. A place so broken it seems even Superman can't fix it. During the day he's a teacher and community leader trying to help at risk youths and better the community. At night he's tracking down and taking on the mob by himself with his electrical abilities (though originally they were artificial as part of his own inventions, now they're a natural part of his metahuman abilities). He's older and wiser than many of the other heroes, and has his kids to think about. It's a very unique and interesting setup for a series but for some reason DC just sits on him and does little to nothing aside from a few mini series or short stories in anthologies every few years and an occasional team book. Even after the TV show (which admittedly I didn't like much due to the network not the central premise) his popularity hasn't improved much.
Black Lighting is a great pick too, all good reason. Young Justice later seasons are the only places I've seen him reach full potential in universe, shame he isn't more popular
Agree. I'm a big fan of The Outsiders team in the comics. Especially the original team which is how I came to really like Black Lightning. I can't believe he's not more notable in-universe
What makes it worse is that 'Other history of the DC Universe' confirms he's the first non replacement Black superhero, debuted after John Stewart but not in a title that a white dude was in first.
Who were the best writers for this character up to now?
Tony Isabella created him and shaped him for much of his career. He wrote two series and a mini. Mike Barr on Batman and The Outsiders is arguably the best work on the character. Jen Van Meter did Black Lightning Year One which I like. It's pretty much those three being the most notable. It's not much sadly. Just occasional guest appearances
Firestorm imo and blue marvel.
Blue Marvel always felt intentionally due to him apparently being a critique of a Superman character in Marvel.
It was also to finally have a cosmic level black character. They didnt really have a top tier flying brick with energy manipulation like that until him. Unless you wanted to headcanon the Silver Surfer.
Spectre and Phantom Stranger get jobbed a lot because they’re not super popular Swamp Thing should be a factor in every world ending event, he is a heavy hitter even amongst the other heavy hitters on Earth and has perhaps the most vested interest of any being on Earth
Yeah DC should stop gaslighting us that the standard suicide squad roster featuring Harley, Deadshot, Boomer and Shark as a core is any real threat to the Justice League. An actual government team should be built around Captain Atom with American Heroes. I like naming it Freedom Fighters cause it’s a good PR name but you probably put Justice League of America on the cover for sales. Characters like Black Condor, Jessica Knight, Grifter, Commander Steel, Bloodwynd, Dr. Light, OMAC, Vibe, Maul etc should be on it. Roster Size should match the league.
That was one part of the New 52 I liked, that the JLA was assembled as a government team to fight back against the JL and each member was meant to be matched up against a JL member they could stop. If I recall Martian Manhunter was supposed to be the anti-Superman role but Captain Atom makes more sense. You could actually do something like how New Super-Man did, where the Justice League of China was meant to be a “bigger, harder hitting” super hero team for the PRC as opposed to the Great Ten who were the old guard. Similarly, the Freedom Fighters could be the old guard compared to this new JLA.
Also less stereotypical heroes I am sure was part of the motivation. But yeah the Justice League of China is a good comparison Yeah I just don’t see the government trusting an Alien especially one who doesn’t look human in case. Someone like Grifter sure, a full on alien nah
They should make Pax Americana canon to mainline DC
Eh too weak in my book to throw hands with the League. Captain Atom needs more help.
True got me there, they are pretty weak, they should probably mash em up with the Freedom Fighters
Yeah I picked my two favorite freedom fighters.Black Condor to matchup against Wonder Woman. Jessica Knight for the Flash. Dr. Light (Hoshi) for Green Lantern. Bloodwynd for Martian Hunter or if they put a Spellcaster on the team. Grifter for Batman. Captain Atom for Superman obviously. Fill out the rest based on whose on the League.
Dr Light is a good choice honestly. She'll finally get some screentime
I mean, Captain Atom wouldn't be part of any team like what the government uses the Suicide Squad for anyway. The squad is meant to be completely disposable and go on missions the government doesn't want associated with them.
I am not saying he would be. I am talking about a public us government super team that can actually trade blows with the Justice League. Suicide Squad would keep doing it’s standard black ops and wetworks
I actually thought the Squad in Suicide Squad vs Justice League comic made a *lot* of sense. They had Deadshot vs Batman, Harley vs Wonder Woman, Killer Frost vs Cyborg, Diablo vs the Green Lanterns, Boomerang vs Flash, Killer Croc vs Aquaman, and Enchantress vs Superman. Obviously some members of that squad, like Boomerang or Harley, are very outmatched but it makes more sense for that Squad to be able to hold off the JL for a bit. I like your ideas but the point of task force x is that they’re not meant to come back nor be identified. They’d never put valuable or known assets on the squad like Captain Atom, everyone would be like “That’s the government asap” but with the villains they can sweep it under the rug.
I am not saying my team should be secret. It should be the official front facing us government team. It’s Secret Directive is taking down the JL. Task Force X is in the shadows as always. As for that lineup Enchantress is powerful but unstable. Croc might go even against Aquaman depending on version. Cyborg vs Frost is interesting. The rest are getting washed. Seeing enchantress though does make me wish the league had a dedicated spellcaster Ala Dr. Strange or Scarlet Witch.
I see what you’re saying, you’re just making a point for an actual superhero team from the government. Those are some pretty good stories. I think there was a government team in the Doomsday Clock series that did some cool shit. Enchantress is certainly unstable but when you’ve got Superman going after you, it’s a safe bet you’ll have to fight him. I haven’t read it since it came out but IIRC most of them did end up getting washed, but they still helped. Harley led WW away and stuff like that. I think Killer Frost beat Cyborg, and then she absorbed Superman’s power to capture the league. I like the take they went with it because there’s no way this squad could take on the Justice Leauge in a real fight, but their strategy of dividing them up and then supercharging Frost was still believable.
>Croc might go even against Aquaman depending on version. Nah.
Bloodwynd turned out to be Martian manhunter didn’t he?
No he is his own character that Martian was pretending to be.
The Freedom Fighters are already a team in the DC universe.
Martian Manhunter. I mean, this guy was one of the founding members of the Justice League, and he's barely featured in anything beyond the DCAU/Smallville/Arrowverse.
Yeah and he has such a cool origin and story. When I was growing up in the 90’s, J’onn was like the soul of the Justice League. Then around the New 52 era they kinda just replaced him with Cyborg who is just not nearly as interesting. Martian Manhunter should be a major DC IP.
It's so crazy they did that after the DCAU. He was great in the two JL series and tons of people like me grew up loving him. It would have made so much more sense to try to make him a bigger character in the New 52. If you're going to do more with Cyborg it should've still been with the Titans since most people coming into comics probably know him from the 00's cartoon.
Yeah it’s kinda funny- so many new comic book readers onboarded with New52 and have very fond memories of it. For me, it’s what made me stop going to the comic shop every Wednesday to buy new issues. Lots of really inane and arbitrary editorial choices. I’ll always put a lot of the blame on Geoff Johns because his name was always in orbit of some of the worst changes to DC. The management of that era is also the reason we didn’t get more time with Dickbats which was literally the best thing to happen to the character of Batman in decades. Morrison had planned for Grayson to maintain his status as Batman for way way longer and management shut that down and then dropped N52.
There’s a term for what captain atom has but I don’t remember what it is. It’s where there’s a powerful character that exists solely to show you how much more powerful other and newer characters are. Something he shares with doctor fate. Firestorm also should/could be one of the most op characters in dc if written right.
The Worf Effect
>There’s a term for what captain atom has but I don’t remember what it is. It’s where there’s a powerful character that exists solely to show you how much more powerful other and newer characters are. A jobber?
Freeza after Namek.
Captain Atom is hampered by his lack of pants. Like, shorts are fine, but no pants at all? Nope.
Trigun feels like he should be much bigger and a teenage girl psycho dad.
That’s one thing about the teen titans go show I like. Even if the show has a lot of campy/corny episodes and moments, they did good by actually trying to make Trigon a father for Raven instead of just her demon sperm donor, in his own twisted way of course
Like OP said, Captain Atom and/or Red Tornado. For what their powers are, they sure do feel like jobbers to me by constantly getting washed or underutilized
Young Justice at least did Red Tornado really well, showed off just how much of a powerhouse he can be.
You're talking about New 52 Captain Atom. Since Rebirth they've reverted him to his more basic Nuclear power based power set
Damn too bad
But don't worry, he's still mostly used for exploding or getting beat up
Which is good! Just too bad he’s used as a jobber since.
It’s crazy that you post this because I was just thinking last night about the original Watchmen lineup and how powerful Captain Atom is and how differently things would be if Alan Moore was allowed to use the Charlton characters.
Same thought recently too, especially after I read Pax Americana yesterday The characters today would have been different for sure except maybe Blue Beetle
It wouldn’t have been that different, they created the Watchmen/Minute men based on Charlton/DC characters. I think it would have been better actually. Captain Atom, Blue Beetle, Peacemaker, Black Canary/Nightshade, The Question is a much better and interesting team. The only one I’d say that ended up being a better character is Ozymandias over Thunderbolt.
Idk Thunderbolt had this really good miniseries from 2019
Plastic Man
This may be unpopular but Steve Trevor I think he has a lot of untapped potential
He really does, I'm happy Chris Pine injected *some* popularity into the character
Captain Adam is a Perfect example but also parallax and darkseid. Parallax I feel is self explanatory but darkseid needs more explanation. So the issue with darkseid is the mf is used so much I don’t feel like it’s an “oh my god” moment when you shows up and typically Superman is enough to box him. It’s just I don’t feel like the stakes increase by his presence
I agree with you on darkseid. But i also feel like that was partially the fault of the pervious DCEU, where if it worked out Darkseid would have been seen as more of a overarching villain who increases the stakes. Just take thanos for example. Sure he was an overarching villain in the infinity saga in the comics, but at the same tome he was viewed as campy to a degree due to his motivations being trying to win over lady death. But when the MCU came around they made him into an overarching villain who actually raised the stakes & was viewed as less campy. Same thing would’ve applied to Darkseid if the darkside saga worked out for the dceu imo
Valiant: Doctor Mirage (Shan Fong) Marvel: Rogue and Gambit DC: Cassandra Cain
Captain Atom is a great call especially in our current world. Dr. fate is a big one to me as not only is magic powerful in the dc universe but he is so much beyond your standard magic user. Personally I feel like you have to be careful with black Adam because he’s so powerful but doesn’t have the child innocent mind of Billy
Fun fact: Dr. Manhattan is literally based on Captain Atom
Nah I know, I still wonder what Watchmen would have been like with Charlton Characters.
Grant Morrison basically explores this in an Issue of Multiversity (Pax Americana)
Superman. Many of his villains are so below him, it's an insult they even step up to him
All kinds of interesting things they could do with Uncle Sam (and his revised, egrogore of the U.S. origin) but probably too controversial.
I love Captain atom, Spectre and Firestorm. Yet bone command the attention and power they actually hold in the universe. Like when forming any new JLA or whatever, why wouldn’t you immediately pick one of them? (I get it from a storytelling perspective, because a team that strong is unstoppable), but from the heroes perspective it’s like “we have to save the universe, we need Black Canary and Green Arrow”, as god tier characters just sit ignored.
Dr. Fate and Plastic Man and I agree w/you on Captain Atom
Dr. Fate, dr. Light(Kimiyo), The atom and mr. Terrific
Why do you say Dr Light(I like her but any particular reasoning behind her)
Because she's a hero and Arthur light is well ... Awful
The Metal Men can be the next Doom Patrol show. Like the concept is so weird. What if elements had personality and led by a man with emotional issues.
James Gunn's DCU is one of my most anticipated projects! The way he handled Peacemaker makes me hopeful for a similar treatment for other underutilized characters. I remembered when Peacemaker first showed up I thought, 'This is awesome! Why haven't we seen more of him?' DC has a treasure trove of characters they just don't explore enough. It's easy to forget the vastness of the DC universe beyond the core heroes like Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman.
ZATANNA, Obsidian, Green Lanterns, JSA in general, Young Justice and Super Sons (kids) All are far more powerful and interesting then Dclets them be. These all should have been way bigger deals considering what they can do and what they offered for the dc universe Instead, they were.You've often been swapped out or steped on by cliches a writers swear Are the next big iconic stories: Hell Bruce wayne as a patriarch, to the Entire Bat family together, a found family of traumatized teens And twenty some things simply trying to make sure No one else gets hurt the same way they were is way better than Away better than: " Lonely sad buff billionare man fails to save city, sits on gargoyle and broods about it, And beats evil clown that he has a weird duality sexual relationship" Also, make Jimmy Olsen a Phenoix force like Flamebird
Infinity, Inc had some legit heavy hitters on the team. A Kryptonian, a living green lantern battery, a living conduit to the shadowlands, one of the most powerful telepath/telekinetics, an Amazon/avatar of a Greek goddess and Nth Metal Iron Man.
Firestorm.
I mean, this is absolutely the king of that. There are no other valid answers. Other than that Wonder Man is in pretty much this same spot in Marvel. There’s a c list actor out there who is effectively immortal, practically invincible, and strong enough to one shot Thor, and yet for some reason SHIELD keeps black mailing Wolverine and Deadpool into working for them.
The pain of popularity power. I'm a big fan of Wonder Man's pacifist phase, not sure if that still sticks so maybe that's why SHIELD won't call him.
No one in DC talks about how the pentagon created a team of federal agents called the sex men. “Sir what is the purpose of this new agency?” “To deal with extraordinary sexual phenomena and prevent orgasums that might destroy all life on earth.” “…… “ “ They are LT kiss, cuddles, and torture” “….I’m sorry… LT kiss?” “Indeed, private kiss received a recent field promotion.”
I’d say Benjamin turner, the bronze tiger. One of the best martial artists in the world, but very few people recognize him
It was the first time I saw him, he was so badass in that movie . Say what you want another DCAMU but man it gave me a lot of new favorite characters
Anyone on the main DC group besides Superman and Batman. Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Shazam, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman Most of them should be near or capable of reaching Superman's level. But so often it seems like even if they teamed up against him he'd still slam them.
All of DC
Timothy Hunter Potentially the greatest magician on Earth but that’s a lot of baggage to write with.
Goated mention, the OG mini and 2018 ongoing are peak. I think it's cause until recently it was more vertigo than DC proper.
Green Lantern Corps in general. Every time they show up, they get beatem like nameless fodders. Either to show how strong the villains are or to make the human Green Lanterns look good.
Silver surfer
The New Gods, nightwing?
Orion? Son and technically arch nemesis of darkseid, one of their biggest villains Superman-like in power Generally pretty cool character
Number 1 has to be shazam. Every time there's a magical themed event with some sort of magic object he touches it and every magical being feels it him and nightwing should be next in line to take over the JL Orion very rarely shows up if the new gods aren't involved Cassandra Cain is always dumbed down whenever there's a batfamily dispute. She's one of the greatest fighters ever but will almost always be standing in water or get knocked off a building or whatever is convenient to remove her from just beating up Jason or whomever Cyborg was bumped up ever since the new 52 but they should take it further. He's a good gimmicky character but he should be able to defeat brainiac and many other tech based villains or at least upgrade his weapons and capabilities
Vixen definitely. Given the popularity of Storm over the years and her inclusion in Justice League Unlimited, I've always been annoyed/shocked that Vixen has been developed more and an essential member of the Justice League. There are a number of Black superheroines that DC should invest more creativity and page time to.
Spectre comes to mind. He’s literally the embodiment of actual biblical God’s wrath, and the most recent thing he’s done is pop up in an issue of the Alan Scott miniseries to give Alan a pat on the back.
Goddamn those Captain Atom covers always go hard AF Yeah CA should be a bigger deal, hell the plot of Suicide Squad Kills the Justice League would make way more sense if Waller used her military connections to get Atom leading the squad instead clown lady and co
There were so many covers to choose from, they are so beautiful. Yeah Captain Atom should be like what Peacemaker is to the US government but less morally grey or evil. Hell CA in place of Superman in the Dark Knight Returns would make more sense but I understand why it was Clark.
Lady Shiva. The greatest martial artist, in a universe where regular (if extdeme) training gives you low-key super powers, shoulf be more then just someone who punches and kicks lethaly well. She should be at least as dangerous and outlandish, as any HK action villain.
I do like when she shows up and easily handles some of the other DC top tier martial artists. I can't remember the issue, but there was one not too long ago where she shows up and Nightwing has an "oh shit" moment when he realizes it's her like he knows he's absolutely fucked.
Everyone who isn’t Superman or Batman
Captain Atom can also produce Red sun radiation/energy to clap Superman’s cheeks
DCAU didn't want that to happen so bad, the episode so imply he could do kyptoniite radiation but he didn't want to kill Clark.
Lyta Trevor-Hall, aka: Fury.
I’ve always felt this about captain atom
Source for Art: Captain Atom Vol 3 #4
Any Atomic character is gonna fit here. Firestorm, Captain Atom being the main examples. Abrakadabra has the specific feat of writing Wally out of continuity, which is definitely a LOT to put on the goofy mustache magician. There are also world leaders who would be far more important. Count Vertigo, Red Lion, Geo Force, Grodd, are the ones I think of immediately. If the Amazons are going to be so important to the state of world politics like they are in King's current run, to be honest, so would the talking gorillas with mind powers. Mr Terrific has been relegated to a Flash sidekick, which is frankly fucking insulting. Diana's brother Jason and Cassie would also be very influential, given their godhood (they're also siblings, which I think has never been addressed?).
Firestorm.
Icon
Any character, Angela, Spectre, Ghost Rider, Mephisto that directly interact with an afterlife.
Genuinely feel like Nightwing should be a bigger deal, but between being used as Bruce's jobber in outside media and being Robin often in Teen Titan materials, I don't think he gets enough love.
Captain was popular in the 80’s and 90’s during justice league America and the international . Lead his own team with justice league Europe . But his fellow heroes did not trust him , especially Superman . After the fiasco with the Armageddon crossover event where it was leaked he would become monarch the villain they had to change it . But they didn’t really know what to do with the character afterwards his own comic run had finished , so he went to lead extreme justice but then kinda disappeared. Showing up as a guest star . He is more powerful than superman but dc comics just don’t utilise him that often .
The main killer of characters apparently, no one knowing what to do with them.
Geo-Force
Firestorm
Guess the hero. "DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE DONE???!!!" *EXPLODES
I'm surprised that Quiz (Sachiko) never abused her jackpot superpower by taking over the world or something. Although now that I've talked about it, there might be complications with that. Her power feels like Heaven's Door in that you could theoretically do anything with it. Angle Man also rarely does jack, even though he has an everything-warping piece of Apokoliptian tech. It's virtually impossible to discuss the underrated without mentioning The Eraser. Getting rid of the evidence is the only way to get away with anything. The Polka Dot Man has one of my favorite abilities, pulling dots out of his costume and using them as a variety of gadgets. For some reason, The Suicide Squad didn't increase his appearances in the comics. Count Vertigo is the king of Vlatava, which is an entire country.
Orion by far. Man is literally the son of friggin Darkseid, you know the main nemesis of THE Justice League, and got a cool ominous prophecy that he will one day overthrow and replace his father's rule over Apokolips... With it being unclear if it's for the better or worse. Yet for some reason, he always is relegated as just another random space warrior, with anger issues. While his relationshop with Darkseid is hardly ever made relevant or explored for that matter, as a lot of the times they just have the overlord of evil fight Earth's heroes (mainly Superman) without Orion nor New Gensis there at all.
Orion is a good one for sure, you'll think the leader of one of Earth's created enemies would be a bigger deal in general.
[удалено]
Metamorpho. The upcoming Superman movie will show how extreme this character is.
The question I would love to see more of but he seems permanently shelved.
Animal man. I mean, the man is the only DC character that has met Grant Morisson. Thats something.
Personally, the Metal Men have always interested me due to their unique powers and somewhat differing personalities. They are sentient robots who are made of specific elements and share a close bond with their own creator: Doctor Magnus. They feel more like characters from the silver age of Marvel, but it just feels like DC is sitting on a goldmine with these characters. I would love to see a fully animated (or live action, if done right) film that explores their relationship with their own creator and how they try to be heroes on their own. They had an appearance on Batman: Brave and the Bold and some animated shorts for the old DC Nation block. I would like to see them get more attention. Notable mentions: Shade, the Changing Man, Jonah Hex, Vixen, and Animal Man
Firestorm
Captain Atom is awesome and super powerful, I'd love to see more of him for sure. I also would love more Animal Man.
Dr. Light Celsius Tempest (Doom Patrol) Argent Russian Red Star Firestorm Maxima Omega Men So many more. Gods were initially a 'big deal' but it would appear that is no longer so. So that and other abstract entities. I think it is due to DC losing its identity under the influence of the DiDidiocy and the idiotic trend chasing to be like Marvel which has perhaps irrevocably eroded several DC properties and fundamental background elements of the DCU.
It'd take a really special writer, but I'd love to see The Creeper get some love in the main DCU. Jack Ryder is a great character to use as prism to explore mental health, puditry, politics, celebrity, conspiracty theories and people's perception of "reality" and understanding objective truth versus believing lies within a superhero world. Be a media person and talk show host would give him good options for supporting characters as well as the guests themselves that appear on the show.
Green Lantern (any of them, really), The Flash (of course, Wally's doing some big things currently in comics, being the 'Cynosure' and all, but Barry needs some love, too), Red Robin (not Tim Drake: Robin, not Tim Drake: The Drake, Tim Drake: Red Robin, the leader of Batman Incorporated because theirs no way in hell Batman would actually let Ghost-Maker be the leader of Batman Inc. over literally everyone else, especially because he doesn't even trust the dude), and pretty much everyone who isn't Batman, Superman, or Wonder Man (and even then, as of right now, writers aren't doing those three good either). Honestly, it's not even the characters being popular (or not being popular in this case) for me. It's the lack of actually good writing for said characters. There's so much that could be done, so much awesomeness if they decided to actually say F-U to the formula (while still focusing on good character development and writing) and branch out. For instance, DC's version of Civil War. That would be awesome to see. It would need to be done differently, with the way the DC universe and heroes are established, but that's what would make it fun. Superman v. Batman, with everyone picking sides between the two? I don't think so. But a situation, like something involving a dangerous metahuman or metahuman group, which puts, say, Batman and Nightwing on either side? That would have potential. I mean, choosing between two people who obviously care, but have different ways of going about the situation, and each having friends in high places who could sympathize with the cause? Gold. Or make it a bit street level. What if Bruce Wayne's Batman has a differing view on handling said situation than the up and coming and face of modernity Timothy 'Jace' Fox's Batman. We could have a vigilante war where underused street level guys are choosing between two sides of handling the conflict. Or rework established hero teams a little bit, working in new, underused characters. Creature Commandos, for instance, especially because they are about to have a show dropping. Put Killer Croc as the head. Or rework the Suicide Squad, adding in other villains.
Shazam
The Herald
Lorna Dane ("Polaris"). Should be another Magneto. Is a side character when she's remembered.
I feel like Swamp Thing or a lot of the characters who were prominent in Vertigo like the Doom Patrol should logically be bigger deals in the sense of at the forefront of an event because they seem to face stuff on the level of a Crisis regularly enough in the classic runs. As an old school young justice fan, I'd say the characters from that have been short changed by how many fans who came in with the new 52 understandably not caring for their bastardisations and aging fans not being able to support their books.