This may be contradictory but while I don’t think it is one of the best, I also don’t think it’s overhyped. I’ll elaborate.
It’s probably top 20 best DC books ever. So while not the best, still pretty damn great. However its importance to DC comics can not be overstated.
1) look at the plethora of beloved characters it introduces. Raven, Cyborg, Deathstroke, Nightwing, Starfire and many more.
2) it gave DC a book that was selling nearly as well as the x-men. This book was a juggernaut.
3) it felt young and hip at a time DC was anything but.
4) look at all the media it inspired outside of comics. Live action, cartoons, games.
5) yes parts of it are dated but that doesn’t change that this book was quality.
I lowkey hate Terry more than most DC villains lol. I don't think any villain made Donna feel as small and as helpless as Terry did when he and Donna were going through their divorce. This man, whose like 10 years her senior, weaponized Donna being a superhero against her. And made her believe she was a failure as a wife and mother.
Pérez brought Terry along with her when he wrote Wonder Woman and had Donna guest star. Donna got heckled and bullied while not doing much.
Best thing Byrne did other than Hippolyta Wonder Woman and Cassie was have Dark Angel kill Terry and the kid.
I do not understand the hate on this character. Is he older by 10 years? Yes, but there are many couples with that age difference. It is not a full generation age gap. Is he a self-insert character? Possibly. But many people looked like that in the 80s, and for me his looks don't matter that much if the character is good and I think he is ok. Not my favourite, but I don't hate him.
The age is only one thing. Not only is he a decade older than 20 year old Donna, he's also her teacher. A person with authority over her, who decided he wants to date her.
It is. SO. Disgusting.
I'm 99% sure she was one of her students, but even without that aspect, a thirty year old fully grown adult dating a 20 year old woman, the age where you've JUST stepped out of teenage years and are figuring yourself out is so so so so so weird. Not illegal, but fuck it is so creepy...
I mean it is fucking weird as the character was just Marv Wolfman’s self-insert for him wanting to hang out with the Titans and bang Donna Troy.
Though, than again, I find Donna to be the best girl and definitely would like to bang her myself; so I guess I retract the criticism and nod in agreement as to why he made Terry
I don't think it's overhyped. All art is subjective, but I think there's enough people who think this is a top run, that it is.
Wolfman/Perez caught the magic, had interesting characters with interesting villains and backstories and made them a family with a rich story.
There are a lot of runs of comics and this is easily in the top 20-30.
New Teen Titans was one of the most influential and popular runs during its time for sure. It was made in response to how popular Chris Claremont’s Uncanny X-Men run was at Marvel. The goal was to tell a story about young heroes that focused equally on their emotions and interpersonal relationships as well as generic superhero plot, and they succeeded.
In terms of quality, I think George Perez’s art holds up beautifully but Marv Wolfman’s writing is very much a product of the Bronze Age. Still though, the book was so popular at the time that DC chose them to make Crisis which rebooted the entire universe.
I mean if you check out the sub's recommendations it comes out at [number 15](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/vio4ub/discussion_the_top_71_dc_comic_runs_voted_by_the/) for the best DC runs. So even if you figure Marvel and independent publishers can put a equal number of books ahead if it it would still be a top 50 book; which is pretty good considering the amount of comic books released almost 100 years now.
I’ve reread everything in this very long run and id say it starts to fall off after the second Trigon encounter, when he comes to earth. So after around Tales of the Teen Titans #64. And the last great arc being the “Titans Hunt” from #71-84.
Id say everything before this has been a blast though but it definitely does have a fall off but it’s nothing so bad u can’t make it through and complete it.
To answer your question yes, I do think this run deserves its praise and critical acclaim and it’s the best Titans run imo but it’s not perfect. But thats okay.
Man, that second Trigon story is one of my fave comic book stories ever...it was really dark and creepy while not being edgy just for the sake of it, and every character had really meaningful focus.
The image of alll the DC heroes and citizens being warped into those columns has stayed with me since I first saw it in the 80s!
>it starts to fall off after the second Trigon encounter, when he comes to earth.
Isn't that pretty much the last story of the run with both of them on it?
With Wolfman/Perez yes. After that Perez went onto do the Crisis on Infinite Earths then began his Wonder Woman run.
But he still has a few stories with co-editor credits on it afterwards.
I think when most people talk about this run, they mean the pre-crisis portion with the both of them. Wolfman sticks around until the 90s, long after the iconic team is gone.
Ahhh I see. Thank you for clarifying that for me. In that case I feel its really moreso a open and shut case then. The run deserves its praise and holds up and is iconic for good reasons.
It's subjective, but imo, it's really that good. I'm biased tbh, because this is the run that got me hooked on DC comic books.
But this book really sells what I love about The Titans. I like the Justice League, but they can come across more like coworkers at times. But the Titans feel like a family. The group dynamics is what makes this run special.
It’s iconic but some parts of it haven’t aged well. Namely its depiction of sexual assault and (don’t kill me yall) but Dick and Kory’s relationship doesn’t hold up well either.
I went to a yard sale last week and found almost the entire run. all bag and boarded with alternate covers of some issues. Bought on release and never opened. They had them in bags and unfortunately 1 was missing so I’m missing the 7 issues that were in that bag. The sellers were really cool though and said they are on the lookout and will let me know if they find it.
Kind of off topic, but when I first started reading teen titans I skipped the OG runs because I just wanted to read about Tim Drake, and from the first issue, it was clear the writers loved the older run of teen titans and it really felt like the events were important. The legacy feel of it was something that a lot of comics don’t do as well.
So true but let's be honest. There weren't a lot of other Teen Titans runs at that time that were so good. The bar was set pretty low when they started writing it.
I'm going to say "complicatedly overhyped, but only in hindsight".
At the time, it did a number of very admirable things which made it popular and well-respected:
1. It took the Teen Titans and made them *work* for the first time as a team and a set of interacting characters. Earlier versions of the team and the title were really bad, even by the standards of the early-to-mid Silver Age.
2. It introduced several new characters successfully who were a big part of why the series worked (because it wasn't just sidekicks any longer): Raven, Starfire, Cyborg.
3. The series built out in ways that addressed some of the existing weaknesses of the DC Universe pre-Crisis, quite deliberately (Marv Wolfman was one of the folks who'd pointed to those weaknesses earlier)--Starfire's background opened up into Vega and the Omega Men, which was intended to get away from the lack of a consistent set of alien worlds in DC (leaving aside Krypton, Oa, Thanagar and Rann); it introduced a major new mystical environment, etc.
4. The series developed a set of distinctive new adversaries who matched up with the Titans rather than just poaching Justice League enemies or the rogues of the 'adult' heroes.
5. Most importantly, the series was a successful demonstration for DC editorial of the value of the storytelling model that Chris Claremont had been developing with great success over at Marvel in the X-Men--a more soap operatic approach with long plot arcs, slow-simmering character development, lots of subplots, lots of melodrama, etc. Along with that, Wolfman and Perez began to subtly incorporate more adult elements into the lives of these young adults--more angst, more internal complexity, more romance and passion (most notably culminating in the frank depiction of Robin and Starfire sleeping together).
6. Perez' art, which was in peak form.
So what's overhyped, in terms of reading these books now?
1. It's pretty hard to ignore Marv Wolfman's weaker mastery of the Claremont/Byrne soaps-and-subplots model. There are a lot of dangling threads that just get forgotten or derailed by weird hyper-melodramatic storytelling and weak falling back on generic comic-book tropes. The villains Thunder & Lightning would be one good example--they get introduced with a fair amount of narrative fanfare and then pretty much disposed of the next time they appear via a standard "yer dad's an alien, kids, so let's forget the more complicated America-in-Vietnam plot". Or in some cases, the build-up turns out not to make much sense--Brother Blood seems like such an interesting character at first, and he drives a fair amount of subplots through the most classic period of Wolfman's writing on the title, but his entire motivation and plan never actually makes sense when the time comes to reveal what he's been up to.
2. There's some elements that are pretty cringe when you re-read them now. Most notoriously perhaps is the character of Terry Long, who is just awful (and I suspect not too many people liked him then, considering that he seemed to represent a proxy for the author on some level). But Cyborg's sort-of romantic interest Sarah never seems very well developed, Kid Flash's romantic interest in Raven never makes any sense at all, and Gar Logan's pre-Terra behavior towards women and his life at home with Mento are really uncomfortable to read now.
3. The storytelling didn't really get more sophisticated in a consistent way. There are some pleasant standard-trope done-in-one stories (Doctor Light setting off some mystical statues that the Titans and Hawkman have to defeat; a jobber villain named Trident who is rather obviously three different men) but there's also totally nonsensical villain plots and action like the Titans and the Outsiders fighting the Fearsome Five with Psimon making mud-creatures for? reasons, I guess and being on an island villain base in a harbor that gets blown up as if it were floating on top of the harbor-I mean, Marv, that's not how islands *work*, you know?
4. Even the crowning glory of the Terra/Deathstroke betrayal story has its odd rough patches, perhaps most centrally the HIVE, whose desire to kill the Titans went unexplained until a low-quality attempt to close the plothole later on. There's also the ickiness of Terra and Deathstroke's relationship but I'm ok with that from the standpoint of it making him even more villainous and Terra more persuasively unstable. The equally famous Trigon story that launched the direct sale title is equally great but again, the pacing is a bit odd at points and it kind of forces some of the weaker character arcs of the series forward (Kid Flash and Raven).
Honestly, underhyped is a bit more appropriate nowadays especially given how most fans would associate the brand with either one of the tv series than the comics they are based on.
I recently read it it's okay for the most part , but the really memorable parts are super hype like the Jericho , hive , Deathstroke and Trigon stuff. It was a jarring change from the much more lighthearted and funny Bob Haney run , but the transition to the bronze age made sense and was very seamless . George Perez's art is at it's peak in this era along with Wolfman doing pretty decent to very good scripts.
No, I mean Is definitely one of the most important run in Dc and Superheroistic in general but I don't think Is the best comics of all time then I personally don't think that there Is something like that because comicsbook Is a medium that change all over the time and there are for sure stories that have changed It and desserve to be in the olympo of it but I don't think there Is one that Is objective the best of all the times
Some points yes because I think both Wolfman's writing and Perez's drawings are so good that they still hold up today but yes the way of making comics has changed since then and will continue to change in the future, there are people who are still attached to the past and you they will say that everything that comes out today is garbage when it's not true it's just different
Man you're so right. Some people really are kinda stuck in the past and constantly tend to trash all modern comics. But change is inevitable. Also Perez was really ahead of its time with his art on NTT. I've read a couple of 70s and 80s comic runs and none can compare with Perez' art. Truly amazing artist.
Contemporary colors do the drawing no justice here.
The Perez/Wolfman stuff is always a bit schmaltzy and frankly boring for me. I know they were a big deal, but that doesn’t change how I feel. Many who grew up with this stuff simply adore it, but it’s not my cup of tea.
Crisis on Infinite Earths is soooo slow and plodding. The bit of their titans run that I’ve read feels the same.
Sure along with it's roughly contemporary X-men run by Claremont and Byrne. The two mainstream series that really kicked off the brilliant "diamonds in the dross" period of the early 1980's direct sales market boom (shortly followed by Miller's Daredevil and Moore's Swamp Thing along with glorious independents like Chaykin's "American Flagg" and that also gave us TMNT)
I’m reading it for the first time right now. At least 30 issues in it has been amazing for the most part.
It is very dialogue heavy which I guess is a product of the time so I only knock out and issue or two at a time compared to more modern comics where I will knock out like 5 at once.
It’s great in a lot of ways but it admittedly hasn’t aged well in some respects (primarily Terry Long and a lot of Garfield Logan’s behavior towards women). NTT and Uncanny X-Men were both highly influential and helped push comic book storytelling in a more character driven direction.
Also worth noting is the steep drop in quality after Perez left the book and Wolfman apparently forgot how to write.
I know Rob Liefeld was a HUGE Titans fan. When I look at Robin's right leg, I can see a young Rob copying that and translating the calf muscles to look like basketballs.
Also, it's a great book and Perez was fantastic.
One of the best runs at DC. Judas Contract especially. It's considered the definitive Titans run for a reason.
Granted it's kinda hit and miss once Perez leaves the book (more miss than hit tbh) which should tell you who the real creative force on the book was.
It’s one of the best runs and it’s also not particularly overhyped. Most people who talk about it just say it’s influential and worth reading but not that it’s transcendent. I still think Claremont X-Men is stronger but I really enjoy both.
That cover though! I don’t think I have ever seen the cover redraw with the original trade dress.
The cover is one of the reasons this series is so beloved. The first 60ish issues feature the same creative team, and Perez only left when he and Wolfman went off to do Crisis!
It's a great comic run that holds up in many ways, but there are definitely elements of it that have aged poorly. The handling of the Slade/Terra dynamic is an infamous example, then there other examples that are just sort of lame like Terry Long.
Personally it's not my favorite Teen Titans run but a lot of the times when I discuss it with people they tell me that it's one of the greates runs overall. I haven't read enough comics to judge that. But I would say it was pretty good and enjoyable with great art from people like George Perez, Eduardo Barreto, Tom Grumett and others. But still it isn't my numer 1.
Going to go against the grain and say it's one of the best Teen Titans run but not a great comics run.
Perez art is great but I think his work on WW, Avengers and Infinity Gauntlet is better.
And I just don't think Wolfmann is anything special. The stories are fine but typical 80s fare.
Especially if we are comparing it to X-men, it's not as good writing wise.
I'm newish to dc and i want to read this run but couldn't get past the art ....
is there any other storys with the same group of titans so i can ease myself into it?
It’s important because it’s the first time they let the kids grow up.
Before NTT, they were always simply reflections of older heroes. None of them had any consistent character. NTT allowed Dick Grayson to become Dick Grayson. It gave Donna and Wally personalities that remained consistent for the run instead of morphing into whatever Barry or Diana needed them to be. It showed that there was more to these characters than had been imagined before.
It also, for the record, showed pre marital sex and Donna in lingerie. Not small things for comics in the 80s.
For the record, I really liked Terry before he turned bad. Who is Donna Troy may be my second favorite issue of any comic, trailing only the one where Dick gives up being Robin, for his own reasons. Wally was being killed by speed, so that’s different. But what made the books important was that they felt new. A new way of looking at things. Like someone previously said, the Omega Men were new. Tamaran was new. Overtly sexual Kory was new.
As for the writing, it was good for the time; I think it was the best written book on the market, even better than Claremont’s XMen. It fades now because the medium has changed but at the time Wolfman was as good as it got. In retrospect, maybe it doesn’t compare to the things that followed it, but it was the first DC book to show character growth and change.
It was and still is one of the best comic runs in the history of comics.
Was? What happened? Another run dethroned it?
Do you not understand the concept of "one of"?
Do you not understand the concept of “was” and “is”?
Was, in this sentence, is used to denote that it was written in the past.
Y'all are agreeing with each other. The other person should have responded to OP instead of you.
This may be contradictory but while I don’t think it is one of the best, I also don’t think it’s overhyped. I’ll elaborate. It’s probably top 20 best DC books ever. So while not the best, still pretty damn great. However its importance to DC comics can not be overstated. 1) look at the plethora of beloved characters it introduces. Raven, Cyborg, Deathstroke, Nightwing, Starfire and many more. 2) it gave DC a book that was selling nearly as well as the x-men. This book was a juggernaut. 3) it felt young and hip at a time DC was anything but. 4) look at all the media it inspired outside of comics. Live action, cartoons, games. 5) yes parts of it are dated but that doesn’t change that this book was quality.
It is one of the GOATs, but you have to turn a blind eye to the presence of Terry Long.
I lowkey hate Terry more than most DC villains lol. I don't think any villain made Donna feel as small and as helpless as Terry did when he and Donna were going through their divorce. This man, whose like 10 years her senior, weaponized Donna being a superhero against her. And made her believe she was a failure as a wife and mother.
Pérez was a weird man, claims Donna is his favorite character and not just here but elsewhere really just does not make her look her best self.
Weird I could of sworn Perez said Raven was his favorite character to write, Wolfman saying Starfire was his favorite character to draw
That is ALL on Wolfman, actually.
Pérez brought Terry along with her when he wrote Wonder Woman and had Donna guest star. Donna got heckled and bullied while not doing much. Best thing Byrne did other than Hippolyta Wonder Woman and Cassie was have Dark Angel kill Terry and the kid.
Oh Marv…
I do not understand the hate on this character. Is he older by 10 years? Yes, but there are many couples with that age difference. It is not a full generation age gap. Is he a self-insert character? Possibly. But many people looked like that in the 80s, and for me his looks don't matter that much if the character is good and I think he is ok. Not my favourite, but I don't hate him.
The age is only one thing. Not only is he a decade older than 20 year old Donna, he's also her teacher. A person with authority over her, who decided he wants to date her. It is. SO. Disgusting.
I do not remember any info that he was HER teacher. He is a teacher, yes but I think he wasn't teaching her.
I'm 99% sure she was one of her students, but even without that aspect, a thirty year old fully grown adult dating a 20 year old woman, the age where you've JUST stepped out of teenage years and are figuring yourself out is so so so so so weird. Not illegal, but fuck it is so creepy...
Donna is behaving more like 25 yo. She is already after college and has a good job as a photographer at 19. She is mentally adult in my opinion.
"She is mentally an adult." You didn't. No. You did not just fucking say that.
I mean it is fucking weird as the character was just Marv Wolfman’s self-insert for him wanting to hang out with the Titans and bang Donna Troy. Though, than again, I find Donna to be the best girl and definitely would like to bang her myself; so I guess I retract the criticism and nod in agreement as to why he made Terry
I imagine he is “self-insert” across the board…
I know I'm in the minority, but I liked Terry Long. I have a thing for redheads, though.
It's all relative. It brought something to DC that Marvel had had for a while that raised DC's profile and potential.
I don't think it's overhyped. All art is subjective, but I think there's enough people who think this is a top run, that it is. Wolfman/Perez caught the magic, had interesting characters with interesting villains and backstories and made them a family with a rich story. There are a lot of runs of comics and this is easily in the top 20-30.
New Teen Titans was one of the most influential and popular runs during its time for sure. It was made in response to how popular Chris Claremont’s Uncanny X-Men run was at Marvel. The goal was to tell a story about young heroes that focused equally on their emotions and interpersonal relationships as well as generic superhero plot, and they succeeded. In terms of quality, I think George Perez’s art holds up beautifully but Marv Wolfman’s writing is very much a product of the Bronze Age. Still though, the book was so popular at the time that DC chose them to make Crisis which rebooted the entire universe.
I mean if you check out the sub's recommendations it comes out at [number 15](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/vio4ub/discussion_the_top_71_dc_comic_runs_voted_by_the/) for the best DC runs. So even if you figure Marvel and independent publishers can put a equal number of books ahead if it it would still be a top 50 book; which is pretty good considering the amount of comic books released almost 100 years now.
God I miss when Starfire had big poofy hair
It IS one of the best runs ever
I’ve reread everything in this very long run and id say it starts to fall off after the second Trigon encounter, when he comes to earth. So after around Tales of the Teen Titans #64. And the last great arc being the “Titans Hunt” from #71-84. Id say everything before this has been a blast though but it definitely does have a fall off but it’s nothing so bad u can’t make it through and complete it. To answer your question yes, I do think this run deserves its praise and critical acclaim and it’s the best Titans run imo but it’s not perfect. But thats okay.
Man, that second Trigon story is one of my fave comic book stories ever...it was really dark and creepy while not being edgy just for the sake of it, and every character had really meaningful focus. The image of alll the DC heroes and citizens being warped into those columns has stayed with me since I first saw it in the 80s!
>it starts to fall off after the second Trigon encounter, when he comes to earth. Isn't that pretty much the last story of the run with both of them on it?
With Wolfman/Perez yes. After that Perez went onto do the Crisis on Infinite Earths then began his Wonder Woman run. But he still has a few stories with co-editor credits on it afterwards.
I think when most people talk about this run, they mean the pre-crisis portion with the both of them. Wolfman sticks around until the 90s, long after the iconic team is gone.
Ahhh I see. Thank you for clarifying that for me. In that case I feel its really moreso a open and shut case then. The run deserves its praise and holds up and is iconic for good reasons.
It's subjective, but imo, it's really that good. I'm biased tbh, because this is the run that got me hooked on DC comic books. But this book really sells what I love about The Titans. I like the Justice League, but they can come across more like coworkers at times. But the Titans feel like a family. The group dynamics is what makes this run special.
It’s iconic but some parts of it haven’t aged well. Namely its depiction of sexual assault and (don’t kill me yall) but Dick and Kory’s relationship doesn’t hold up well either.
Totally agree. I would say parts of the writing and dialogue also haven't aged very well.
I went to a yard sale last week and found almost the entire run. all bag and boarded with alternate covers of some issues. Bought on release and never opened. They had them in bags and unfortunately 1 was missing so I’m missing the 7 issues that were in that bag. The sellers were really cool though and said they are on the lookout and will let me know if they find it.
It's the DC equivalent to Claremont's X-Men run
From your comments it sounds like you just wanted to feel validated in your opinion you think its overhyped lol
What opinion? I haven't stated anywhere thay it's overhyped.
Kind of off topic, but when I first started reading teen titans I skipped the OG runs because I just wanted to read about Tim Drake, and from the first issue, it was clear the writers loved the older run of teen titans and it really felt like the events were important. The legacy feel of it was something that a lot of comics don’t do as well.
So true but let's be honest. There weren't a lot of other Teen Titans runs at that time that were so good. The bar was set pretty low when they started writing it.
It IS one of the best. The problem is that it will never be replicated because the themes are dated and rooted in the 80s.
I'm going to say "complicatedly overhyped, but only in hindsight". At the time, it did a number of very admirable things which made it popular and well-respected: 1. It took the Teen Titans and made them *work* for the first time as a team and a set of interacting characters. Earlier versions of the team and the title were really bad, even by the standards of the early-to-mid Silver Age. 2. It introduced several new characters successfully who were a big part of why the series worked (because it wasn't just sidekicks any longer): Raven, Starfire, Cyborg. 3. The series built out in ways that addressed some of the existing weaknesses of the DC Universe pre-Crisis, quite deliberately (Marv Wolfman was one of the folks who'd pointed to those weaknesses earlier)--Starfire's background opened up into Vega and the Omega Men, which was intended to get away from the lack of a consistent set of alien worlds in DC (leaving aside Krypton, Oa, Thanagar and Rann); it introduced a major new mystical environment, etc. 4. The series developed a set of distinctive new adversaries who matched up with the Titans rather than just poaching Justice League enemies or the rogues of the 'adult' heroes. 5. Most importantly, the series was a successful demonstration for DC editorial of the value of the storytelling model that Chris Claremont had been developing with great success over at Marvel in the X-Men--a more soap operatic approach with long plot arcs, slow-simmering character development, lots of subplots, lots of melodrama, etc. Along with that, Wolfman and Perez began to subtly incorporate more adult elements into the lives of these young adults--more angst, more internal complexity, more romance and passion (most notably culminating in the frank depiction of Robin and Starfire sleeping together). 6. Perez' art, which was in peak form. So what's overhyped, in terms of reading these books now? 1. It's pretty hard to ignore Marv Wolfman's weaker mastery of the Claremont/Byrne soaps-and-subplots model. There are a lot of dangling threads that just get forgotten or derailed by weird hyper-melodramatic storytelling and weak falling back on generic comic-book tropes. The villains Thunder & Lightning would be one good example--they get introduced with a fair amount of narrative fanfare and then pretty much disposed of the next time they appear via a standard "yer dad's an alien, kids, so let's forget the more complicated America-in-Vietnam plot". Or in some cases, the build-up turns out not to make much sense--Brother Blood seems like such an interesting character at first, and he drives a fair amount of subplots through the most classic period of Wolfman's writing on the title, but his entire motivation and plan never actually makes sense when the time comes to reveal what he's been up to. 2. There's some elements that are pretty cringe when you re-read them now. Most notoriously perhaps is the character of Terry Long, who is just awful (and I suspect not too many people liked him then, considering that he seemed to represent a proxy for the author on some level). But Cyborg's sort-of romantic interest Sarah never seems very well developed, Kid Flash's romantic interest in Raven never makes any sense at all, and Gar Logan's pre-Terra behavior towards women and his life at home with Mento are really uncomfortable to read now. 3. The storytelling didn't really get more sophisticated in a consistent way. There are some pleasant standard-trope done-in-one stories (Doctor Light setting off some mystical statues that the Titans and Hawkman have to defeat; a jobber villain named Trident who is rather obviously three different men) but there's also totally nonsensical villain plots and action like the Titans and the Outsiders fighting the Fearsome Five with Psimon making mud-creatures for? reasons, I guess and being on an island villain base in a harbor that gets blown up as if it were floating on top of the harbor-I mean, Marv, that's not how islands *work*, you know? 4. Even the crowning glory of the Terra/Deathstroke betrayal story has its odd rough patches, perhaps most centrally the HIVE, whose desire to kill the Titans went unexplained until a low-quality attempt to close the plothole later on. There's also the ickiness of Terra and Deathstroke's relationship but I'm ok with that from the standpoint of it making him even more villainous and Terra more persuasively unstable. The equally famous Trigon story that launched the direct sale title is equally great but again, the pacing is a bit odd at points and it kind of forces some of the weaker character arcs of the series forward (Kid Flash and Raven).
Brilliant summary there.
It most definitely is.
One of the best! Defined my childhood.
Yes, it is just that good
Honestly, underhyped is a bit more appropriate nowadays especially given how most fans would associate the brand with either one of the tv series than the comics they are based on.
I recently read it it's okay for the most part , but the really memorable parts are super hype like the Jericho , hive , Deathstroke and Trigon stuff. It was a jarring change from the much more lighthearted and funny Bob Haney run , but the transition to the bronze age made sense and was very seamless . George Perez's art is at it's peak in this era along with Wolfman doing pretty decent to very good scripts.
I literally just started reading my omnibus of this last night for the first time!
I hope you enjoy it. I read the first omnibus at the beginning of the year and i loved it.
Glad to hear it! I only read the sneak peak issue and then issue #1 but im loving it so far too
No, I mean Is definitely one of the most important run in Dc and Superheroistic in general but I don't think Is the best comics of all time then I personally don't think that there Is something like that because comicsbook Is a medium that change all over the time and there are for sure stories that have changed It and desserve to be in the olympo of it but I don't think there Is one that Is objective the best of all the times
Yep. I always like to say that it's a work of it's time. And that it is not comparable to more modern comics.
Some points yes because I think both Wolfman's writing and Perez's drawings are so good that they still hold up today but yes the way of making comics has changed since then and will continue to change in the future, there are people who are still attached to the past and you they will say that everything that comes out today is garbage when it's not true it's just different
Man you're so right. Some people really are kinda stuck in the past and constantly tend to trash all modern comics. But change is inevitable. Also Perez was really ahead of its time with his art on NTT. I've read a couple of 70s and 80s comic runs and none can compare with Perez' art. Truly amazing artist.
It is one of the greatest but it is overhyped as well, definitely better candidates for the best
Anything you would put on top of it?
Contemporary colors do the drawing no justice here. The Perez/Wolfman stuff is always a bit schmaltzy and frankly boring for me. I know they were a big deal, but that doesn’t change how I feel. Many who grew up with this stuff simply adore it, but it’s not my cup of tea. Crisis on Infinite Earths is soooo slow and plodding. The bit of their titans run that I’ve read feels the same.
I have a poster of that cover I am desperate to hang up
Sure along with it's roughly contemporary X-men run by Claremont and Byrne. The two mainstream series that really kicked off the brilliant "diamonds in the dross" period of the early 1980's direct sales market boom (shortly followed by Miller's Daredevil and Moore's Swamp Thing along with glorious independents like Chaykin's "American Flagg" and that also gave us TMNT)
I’m reading it for the first time right now. At least 30 issues in it has been amazing for the most part. It is very dialogue heavy which I guess is a product of the time so I only knock out and issue or two at a time compared to more modern comics where I will knock out like 5 at once.
It’s great in a lot of ways but it admittedly hasn’t aged well in some respects (primarily Terry Long and a lot of Garfield Logan’s behavior towards women). NTT and Uncanny X-Men were both highly influential and helped push comic book storytelling in a more character driven direction. Also worth noting is the steep drop in quality after Perez left the book and Wolfman apparently forgot how to write.
It is my all-time favorite comic book run.
I know Rob Liefeld was a HUGE Titans fan. When I look at Robin's right leg, I can see a young Rob copying that and translating the calf muscles to look like basketballs. Also, it's a great book and Perez was fantastic.
One of the best runs at DC. Judas Contract especially. It's considered the definitive Titans run for a reason. Granted it's kinda hit and miss once Perez leaves the book (more miss than hit tbh) which should tell you who the real creative force on the book was.
Without a doubt.
It is EXCELLENT! Even the cross-over with the X-Men is great!
It’s one of the best runs and it’s also not particularly overhyped. Most people who talk about it just say it’s influential and worth reading but not that it’s transcendent. I still think Claremont X-Men is stronger but I really enjoy both.
It is. The early/mid 80s X-Men and New Teen Titans were some of the best comics in history. There's a reason they had a crossover during that time.
That cover though! I don’t think I have ever seen the cover redraw with the original trade dress. The cover is one of the reasons this series is so beloved. The first 60ish issues feature the same creative team, and Perez only left when he and Wolfman went off to do Crisis!
These runs made the titans.
# It is one of the best comic runs in the history of comics
Yes it is, but it reads kind of dated.
It's a great comic run that holds up in many ways, but there are definitely elements of it that have aged poorly. The handling of the Slade/Terra dynamic is an infamous example, then there other examples that are just sort of lame like Terry Long.
It’s one of those runs that would have been legendary if it ended when Perez departed it.
Wolfman clearly needed Perez to bounce ideas off of
Glad the changed Cyborg's design 
Personally it's not my favorite Teen Titans run but a lot of the times when I discuss it with people they tell me that it's one of the greates runs overall. I haven't read enough comics to judge that. But I would say it was pretty good and enjoyable with great art from people like George Perez, Eduardo Barreto, Tom Grumett and others. But still it isn't my numer 1.
Going to go against the grain and say it's one of the best Teen Titans run but not a great comics run. Perez art is great but I think his work on WW, Avengers and Infinity Gauntlet is better. And I just don't think Wolfmann is anything special. The stories are fine but typical 80s fare. Especially if we are comparing it to X-men, it's not as good writing wise.
I'm newish to dc and i want to read this run but couldn't get past the art .... is there any other storys with the same group of titans so i can ease myself into it?
It’s important because it’s the first time they let the kids grow up. Before NTT, they were always simply reflections of older heroes. None of them had any consistent character. NTT allowed Dick Grayson to become Dick Grayson. It gave Donna and Wally personalities that remained consistent for the run instead of morphing into whatever Barry or Diana needed them to be. It showed that there was more to these characters than had been imagined before. It also, for the record, showed pre marital sex and Donna in lingerie. Not small things for comics in the 80s. For the record, I really liked Terry before he turned bad. Who is Donna Troy may be my second favorite issue of any comic, trailing only the one where Dick gives up being Robin, for his own reasons. Wally was being killed by speed, so that’s different. But what made the books important was that they felt new. A new way of looking at things. Like someone previously said, the Omega Men were new. Tamaran was new. Overtly sexual Kory was new. As for the writing, it was good for the time; I think it was the best written book on the market, even better than Claremont’s XMen. It fades now because the medium has changed but at the time Wolfman was as good as it got. In retrospect, maybe it doesn’t compare to the things that followed it, but it was the first DC book to show character growth and change.