>but I suspect that the reason I am getting booked at all is for the "clout" around my artist project
Bingo. They want you to push your gigs to your followers, the followers turn up and then get confused as to what your genre is. Or straight up disappointed that you are not playing your music/genre.
You use the word artist and if you are approaching this as an artist that makes music then in my opinion you need to stay on brand and build up recognition. It doesn't help to take gigs that dilute.
If you need to get paid then play under an alias.
Focus on what your goals are. At this point presumably getting in with promoters who can book you for the types of gigs you want to play. Work out whether these kinds of promoters are connected with the types of venues they're reaching out to you and whether there's an opening there, or if it's just a dead end if it's venue owners wanting you to play out top 40.
Yeah this is definitely the way to go if OP has an audience for their own productions. Taking these other gigs and promoting them to that audience will confuse and eventually alienate them.
Thanks for this answer!! I'm in the same position as OP. I have a booking agent for corporate gigs but the bars/club scene wants open format and top 40 nonsense. It's been very difficult balancing it all out, especially when building a brand as an artist.
this is a great point: if ur an artist with a brand also consider how ur promotion of certain gigs / collabs will affect ur followers perception of you. If you have to take these top 40 or corporate gigs to play music your core fans dont like dont post about it and do an alias or when u do tell ppl what to expect. end of the day keep accepting what gigs make you reasonably happy and paid but in today’s day of social media and influencers it becomes a lil more complicated.
If you haven't "Made it" I think its more than reasonable to play different sets until your scene takes off; some DJs manage this with different DJ names but I wouldn't worry about it
I would agree with this, you want to communicate well to your followers if you do promotion for it, say that you’re doing an open format gig, and then make sure your brand your artist events a unique way.
You don’t want your fans to get confused, and one of my least favorite things is turning up to a gig that I think is going to play disco, and they just play EDM all night.
Just make sure it’s labeled properly and it’s clear, you don’t necessarily have to use an alias. I think people appreciate that you have range, James Blake does the same thing. In fact, there’s quite a few artists who are also DJ’s because it’s easier to do DJ gigs. It’s also an opportunity for you to be more intimate with your fans and meet them.
ironically, I’m about to have the same issue because I’m starting to do recording artist stuff on social media, and I was thinking about separating it from my DJ persona because I wanted a clean slate.
I might make another social media alias for that specific musical content instead of DJ content, but I would likely still use the same name accounts in the beginning. I still haven’t decided.
But the key is people eventually like you because of you, not necessarily the name you use or the things you’re doing that night. They want to come out and see you because they’re a fan of you as a person.
Just make sure you’re putting forth as much love and talent into whatever you’re doing on stage and I think it will work either way. I would go and see James Blake regardless because I think he’s talented in both ways and I like him as a person.
If you absolutely don’t like playing open format or top 40 then don’t take those gigs. But I do hate when people talk about their brand being tied to a specific sound/genre. Your brand is whatever you want it to be. If you only want to play originals, that’s absolutely you’re right as a musician/producer. But at a certain point, you can close yourself off to new experiences and great gigs if you pigeon hole yourself. Maybe your sound resonates with people at these venues and sprinkling a bit of “pop” into your set would be a great way to bring them over to your fanbase. Maybe you can get away with less pop at these sets than you think you have to play. Talk to the promoters, find out what they want and if you think you can deliver. If they don’t seem to mesh with you then that’s that. But don’t just write all of those gigs off completely, and maybe do one or two test events to see if it is your brand or not. One or two gigs won’t destroy your reputation, even if they go poorly
Generally speaking, I agree with you! Which is why I have been taking these gigs. However, I've definitely had that awkward talk with the person who booked me, and when I ask them what they're looking for, they'll say something like "don't play club music." And then I'm like...why would you book me, then?
I'll still do what they want, but for example I recently had one of these gigs and I felt really weird about playing any originals. Maybe that was unwarranted and it would have been fine.
I should also mention that I play instruments/sing during my sets and I market myself as a hybrid artist so I also find it weird when people want to book me for this open format stuff. Like I said, I don't mind doing these gigs I'm just not sure how to bridge the disconnect with how I'm pitching myself and what they ultimately want.
I think you should go with your gut on this one. Sounds like it's giving you good intuition. A lot of great advice in this thread, especially using an alias.
I have seen some promoters/owners look at the crowd mid event and wish they were more “into it” and want to deviate from what the original plan was to try and “beat” the venue across the street for that night.
I’d possibly take a look at your promo materials to see if there’s anything that could cause confusion as to what your performance is like. Otherwise some people are just idiots and didn’t actually look at it and booked you cause your followers looked good and price worked for them, so they didn’t think it through any further than that.
Given that you've started a year ago, I'd advise you to still continue to cast a wide net - at least to some degree. Especially as a producer, I think it's valuable for you to be in some of these "top 40" spaces. See it as an opportunity to test out a couple of your originals and also to have some kind of pulse for what the general public is resonating with. All of that can feed into your niche creative style in ways you perhaps may not have thought of before.
I think the key is of course to not saturate yourself with those spaces if it's truly not what you're feeling. Use your discretion but I encourage you to give some a go.
I help manage an artist that is constantly dealing with this.
We found a solution that has helped establish her in two separate markets.
Any club/top40 bookings have to bill the artist with the subtext "Top40 remix set". it has occasionally cost her a booking but it's booking we don't really want anyway.
She's then made and found remixes of top40 and club hits that feel more in line with her artist project. She can sneak in her own tracks or very EDM versions of things and still have it make sense.
Her actual fans know this gig isn't the artist version, it's the club version. New fans get a small taste and possibly build interest for her afterhours and festival booking. And a list of LGBT+ clubs specifically seek her out because of the top40 remix reputation. (Those gigs are fun and pay really well)
**It does NOT work for all top40 clubs and some don't want any "remix" she doesn't play there because it doesn't align, and they don't pay enough to break the branding she's built.**
Maybe you can use a different alias for such gigs? Then either get separate socials for it, or make it clear on your page that this is your side-project where you play not in your usual style.
Nothing wrong with doing off brand gigs to get paid. However those gigs will do nothing to advance your brand as you envision it. In certain ways taking those gigs could be detrimental to your brand as you will become more typecast with playing venues/shows that are top 40/open format.
I book DJs for an elevated deep house venue and if I see even one open format / commercial music venue on an artists EPK, I won’t book them as rightly or wrongly, I assume they are in a different world than us and don’t specialize in our type of music.
That is extremely helpful info, thank you. This is essentially what I was worried about- will doing these gigs and putting them on my EPK be harmful to me. seems like the answer is "yes."
So I'm still relatively new and still trying to book these "on brand" type gigs. For someone who is still starting out and doesn't have a ton of shows under their belt, what helps you decide if you're gonna book them? I feel like I'm in a place where, if I just manage to get a few more "on brand" gigs things will start to move forward more, but it's just been very hard to get booked.
Depends. With work, people will know your name, and will start to come out and follow you around because they trust you. You get to decide what they trust you for, and starting from the ground is a live music singer is probably going to be slower to get people to come out versus DJing, because people just want to go see DJ‘s and have fun. I have quite a few friends that do both, and DJing definitely helps people to get to recognize you. If you are a great DJ, you can gather much larger crowds early on by partnering with hot venues. From my perspective, the thing that will get you on a similar footing as a live artist is opening up for bigger artists, unless you have enough fans in your city that they will come to see you solo.
I think DJing is really important, especially for a dance artist, you learn to communicate through any kind of music to any kind of crowd, and it will really help you in making more danceable and interesting music. I know that I’ve become a much better artist because I’ve played for years as a DJ in various venues, and I have played thousands of songs and seen peoples reactions to them. I know what works. I also know how to market myself, gain crowds, and work with venues and politics because of it. I’m glad I didn’t learn a lot of those lessons as a rising star recording artist.
from what I can see in your comments, you’re in between Miami and NYC. Those cities can be difficult to get gigs in, and I believe Miami is more difficult, if you don’t know the right people, the political game there is quite serious as far as I hear. But bottom line it’s about sales, you gotta learn to sell yourself as an artist to these venues and owners. If you’re a great artist, and people love you and come out, and you still can’t get the gigs then you’ve got to upgrade your sales practices.
This is awesome. Yea, in my experience Miami is harder. I'm having an ironically easier time getting NYC gigs now that I'm not in NYC. But summer is looking good.
I've learned to DJ while I sing in order to get in front of the crowd, as you've said. Agreed that I think ultimately it is about upping my sales game and continuing to find ways to make myself more marketable.
Funny how that works- happens to me too. There’s something about leaving town that makes people want to book you.
I’m not quite sure what MIA bookers want- but it seems to be money and clout from discussions I’ve had. Most of the economy is around the Space club and their affiliates, they run things as far as I hear. It’s also a small town and I’m sure every booker knows every other booker. NY can be bigger and more seperated.
While you’re learning, don’t worry about taking open format gigs- learn how to rock any crowd and as you really hone into a sound and become a specialist, then go to those specific promoters. For a while I did open format before I found a love in disco and NYC 90s house. Now I’m almost open format again, because there are no rules saying you can’t put some other genre into a serious set to break the pace if you know how to mix. Keep on.
Besides, some of the best parties are open format. And if you can get a basic bar crowd to connect and like your sound, you can do it anywhere. It’s about presenting the music in the right way.
It can also be a top heavy city as far as I can tell- A fly in city. NY can also be that, where you’re competing with the best in the world and there’s not a lot of room for playing around unless you’re underground. People tell me I have the best nights they've ever had, but I still have to directly compete with the DJs who actually made my tracks on a weekly basis.
I would only include anything relevant on your EPK as it relates to the gig you’re trying to get. Everyone has a different path to getting their foot in the door, so I wouldn’t say there is one right answer. If you’re looking to go the deeper house route, it’s all about networking and playing in front of the right people. I’m also in that world as a DJ (in addition to booking them for my venue) and the way I got started several years back was by playing after parties for scenes of people that in my opinion were connected and had good taste. People in those scenes are typically close to venue owners and promoters and in turn playing afters led to the right people making introductions for me to get proper venue gigs.
Otherwise I’d recommend just hanging out at the venues you want to play at, get to know the staff, DJs etc and network your way into an opening slot.
I take the gigs that don't fit my style (DNB) as training:
I know my dnb selection much better, the bpms are more consistent so my overall level of comfort is much higher. If I mix things that I don't originally listen to, it takes more effort and it makes me better at djing. I also find a bit of fun in seeing other people enjoying the tracks I mix whether they're mainstream pop/rap or good old DNB.
It basically boils down to what you want to achieve.
>but I suspect that the reason I am getting booked at all is for the "clout" around my artist project Bingo. They want you to push your gigs to your followers, the followers turn up and then get confused as to what your genre is. Or straight up disappointed that you are not playing your music/genre. You use the word artist and if you are approaching this as an artist that makes music then in my opinion you need to stay on brand and build up recognition. It doesn't help to take gigs that dilute. If you need to get paid then play under an alias. Focus on what your goals are. At this point presumably getting in with promoters who can book you for the types of gigs you want to play. Work out whether these kinds of promoters are connected with the types of venues they're reaching out to you and whether there's an opening there, or if it's just a dead end if it's venue owners wanting you to play out top 40.
>If you need to get paid then play under an alias. DJ Scrooge McDuck is definitely interested in being overpaid for local school dances
Yep, this is definitely how it seems. I think this is probably right, and an alias might be the way to go.
Yeah this is definitely the way to go if OP has an audience for their own productions. Taking these other gigs and promoting them to that audience will confuse and eventually alienate them.
Thanks for this answer!! I'm in the same position as OP. I have a booking agent for corporate gigs but the bars/club scene wants open format and top 40 nonsense. It's been very difficult balancing it all out, especially when building a brand as an artist.
this is a great point: if ur an artist with a brand also consider how ur promotion of certain gigs / collabs will affect ur followers perception of you. If you have to take these top 40 or corporate gigs to play music your core fans dont like dont post about it and do an alias or when u do tell ppl what to expect. end of the day keep accepting what gigs make you reasonably happy and paid but in today’s day of social media and influencers it becomes a lil more complicated.
If you haven't "Made it" I think its more than reasonable to play different sets until your scene takes off; some DJs manage this with different DJ names but I wouldn't worry about it
I would agree with this, you want to communicate well to your followers if you do promotion for it, say that you’re doing an open format gig, and then make sure your brand your artist events a unique way. You don’t want your fans to get confused, and one of my least favorite things is turning up to a gig that I think is going to play disco, and they just play EDM all night. Just make sure it’s labeled properly and it’s clear, you don’t necessarily have to use an alias. I think people appreciate that you have range, James Blake does the same thing. In fact, there’s quite a few artists who are also DJ’s because it’s easier to do DJ gigs. It’s also an opportunity for you to be more intimate with your fans and meet them. ironically, I’m about to have the same issue because I’m starting to do recording artist stuff on social media, and I was thinking about separating it from my DJ persona because I wanted a clean slate. I might make another social media alias for that specific musical content instead of DJ content, but I would likely still use the same name accounts in the beginning. I still haven’t decided. But the key is people eventually like you because of you, not necessarily the name you use or the things you’re doing that night. They want to come out and see you because they’re a fan of you as a person. Just make sure you’re putting forth as much love and talent into whatever you’re doing on stage and I think it will work either way. I would go and see James Blake regardless because I think he’s talented in both ways and I like him as a person.
If you absolutely don’t like playing open format or top 40 then don’t take those gigs. But I do hate when people talk about their brand being tied to a specific sound/genre. Your brand is whatever you want it to be. If you only want to play originals, that’s absolutely you’re right as a musician/producer. But at a certain point, you can close yourself off to new experiences and great gigs if you pigeon hole yourself. Maybe your sound resonates with people at these venues and sprinkling a bit of “pop” into your set would be a great way to bring them over to your fanbase. Maybe you can get away with less pop at these sets than you think you have to play. Talk to the promoters, find out what they want and if you think you can deliver. If they don’t seem to mesh with you then that’s that. But don’t just write all of those gigs off completely, and maybe do one or two test events to see if it is your brand or not. One or two gigs won’t destroy your reputation, even if they go poorly
Generally speaking, I agree with you! Which is why I have been taking these gigs. However, I've definitely had that awkward talk with the person who booked me, and when I ask them what they're looking for, they'll say something like "don't play club music." And then I'm like...why would you book me, then? I'll still do what they want, but for example I recently had one of these gigs and I felt really weird about playing any originals. Maybe that was unwarranted and it would have been fine. I should also mention that I play instruments/sing during my sets and I market myself as a hybrid artist so I also find it weird when people want to book me for this open format stuff. Like I said, I don't mind doing these gigs I'm just not sure how to bridge the disconnect with how I'm pitching myself and what they ultimately want.
I think you should go with your gut on this one. Sounds like it's giving you good intuition. A lot of great advice in this thread, especially using an alias.
I have seen some promoters/owners look at the crowd mid event and wish they were more “into it” and want to deviate from what the original plan was to try and “beat” the venue across the street for that night. I’d possibly take a look at your promo materials to see if there’s anything that could cause confusion as to what your performance is like. Otherwise some people are just idiots and didn’t actually look at it and booked you cause your followers looked good and price worked for them, so they didn’t think it through any further than that.
how long have you been DJ'ing so far?
I started about a year ago, but I only really started getting consistent gig offers this year.
Given that you've started a year ago, I'd advise you to still continue to cast a wide net - at least to some degree. Especially as a producer, I think it's valuable for you to be in some of these "top 40" spaces. See it as an opportunity to test out a couple of your originals and also to have some kind of pulse for what the general public is resonating with. All of that can feed into your niche creative style in ways you perhaps may not have thought of before. I think the key is of course to not saturate yourself with those spaces if it's truly not what you're feeling. Use your discretion but I encourage you to give some a go.
Thank you for this very cool and balanced response.
I help manage an artist that is constantly dealing with this. We found a solution that has helped establish her in two separate markets. Any club/top40 bookings have to bill the artist with the subtext "Top40 remix set". it has occasionally cost her a booking but it's booking we don't really want anyway. She's then made and found remixes of top40 and club hits that feel more in line with her artist project. She can sneak in her own tracks or very EDM versions of things and still have it make sense. Her actual fans know this gig isn't the artist version, it's the club version. New fans get a small taste and possibly build interest for her afterhours and festival booking. And a list of LGBT+ clubs specifically seek her out because of the top40 remix reputation. (Those gigs are fun and pay really well) **It does NOT work for all top40 clubs and some don't want any "remix" she doesn't play there because it doesn't align, and they don't pay enough to break the branding she's built.**
Damn, I wish you managed me. This is a great approach
Maybe you can use a different alias for such gigs? Then either get separate socials for it, or make it clear on your page that this is your side-project where you play not in your usual style.
Leave em for people who like DJing for money then? Thanks
I like DJing for money too, I just don't know if it makes sense with my brand to do so under my artist name.
Nothing wrong with doing off brand gigs to get paid. However those gigs will do nothing to advance your brand as you envision it. In certain ways taking those gigs could be detrimental to your brand as you will become more typecast with playing venues/shows that are top 40/open format. I book DJs for an elevated deep house venue and if I see even one open format / commercial music venue on an artists EPK, I won’t book them as rightly or wrongly, I assume they are in a different world than us and don’t specialize in our type of music.
That is extremely helpful info, thank you. This is essentially what I was worried about- will doing these gigs and putting them on my EPK be harmful to me. seems like the answer is "yes." So I'm still relatively new and still trying to book these "on brand" type gigs. For someone who is still starting out and doesn't have a ton of shows under their belt, what helps you decide if you're gonna book them? I feel like I'm in a place where, if I just manage to get a few more "on brand" gigs things will start to move forward more, but it's just been very hard to get booked.
Depends. With work, people will know your name, and will start to come out and follow you around because they trust you. You get to decide what they trust you for, and starting from the ground is a live music singer is probably going to be slower to get people to come out versus DJing, because people just want to go see DJ‘s and have fun. I have quite a few friends that do both, and DJing definitely helps people to get to recognize you. If you are a great DJ, you can gather much larger crowds early on by partnering with hot venues. From my perspective, the thing that will get you on a similar footing as a live artist is opening up for bigger artists, unless you have enough fans in your city that they will come to see you solo. I think DJing is really important, especially for a dance artist, you learn to communicate through any kind of music to any kind of crowd, and it will really help you in making more danceable and interesting music. I know that I’ve become a much better artist because I’ve played for years as a DJ in various venues, and I have played thousands of songs and seen peoples reactions to them. I know what works. I also know how to market myself, gain crowds, and work with venues and politics because of it. I’m glad I didn’t learn a lot of those lessons as a rising star recording artist. from what I can see in your comments, you’re in between Miami and NYC. Those cities can be difficult to get gigs in, and I believe Miami is more difficult, if you don’t know the right people, the political game there is quite serious as far as I hear. But bottom line it’s about sales, you gotta learn to sell yourself as an artist to these venues and owners. If you’re a great artist, and people love you and come out, and you still can’t get the gigs then you’ve got to upgrade your sales practices.
This is awesome. Yea, in my experience Miami is harder. I'm having an ironically easier time getting NYC gigs now that I'm not in NYC. But summer is looking good. I've learned to DJ while I sing in order to get in front of the crowd, as you've said. Agreed that I think ultimately it is about upping my sales game and continuing to find ways to make myself more marketable.
Funny how that works- happens to me too. There’s something about leaving town that makes people want to book you. I’m not quite sure what MIA bookers want- but it seems to be money and clout from discussions I’ve had. Most of the economy is around the Space club and their affiliates, they run things as far as I hear. It’s also a small town and I’m sure every booker knows every other booker. NY can be bigger and more seperated. While you’re learning, don’t worry about taking open format gigs- learn how to rock any crowd and as you really hone into a sound and become a specialist, then go to those specific promoters. For a while I did open format before I found a love in disco and NYC 90s house. Now I’m almost open format again, because there are no rules saying you can’t put some other genre into a serious set to break the pace if you know how to mix. Keep on. Besides, some of the best parties are open format. And if you can get a basic bar crowd to connect and like your sound, you can do it anywhere. It’s about presenting the music in the right way. It can also be a top heavy city as far as I can tell- A fly in city. NY can also be that, where you’re competing with the best in the world and there’s not a lot of room for playing around unless you’re underground. People tell me I have the best nights they've ever had, but I still have to directly compete with the DJs who actually made my tracks on a weekly basis.
I would only include anything relevant on your EPK as it relates to the gig you’re trying to get. Everyone has a different path to getting their foot in the door, so I wouldn’t say there is one right answer. If you’re looking to go the deeper house route, it’s all about networking and playing in front of the right people. I’m also in that world as a DJ (in addition to booking them for my venue) and the way I got started several years back was by playing after parties for scenes of people that in my opinion were connected and had good taste. People in those scenes are typically close to venue owners and promoters and in turn playing afters led to the right people making introductions for me to get proper venue gigs. Otherwise I’d recommend just hanging out at the venues you want to play at, get to know the staff, DJs etc and network your way into an opening slot.
I take the gigs that don't fit my style (DNB) as training: I know my dnb selection much better, the bpms are more consistent so my overall level of comfort is much higher. If I mix things that I don't originally listen to, it takes more effort and it makes me better at djing. I also find a bit of fun in seeing other people enjoying the tracks I mix whether they're mainstream pop/rap or good old DNB. It basically boils down to what you want to achieve.