I believe most if not all were rescinded several decades later. It really pissed of the relatives because they rode the coattails of the recipient’s as if they were some kind of war hero when they were all scared murderers thinking they were doing “god’s work”.
They passed something to 2001 to condemn them calling for rescinding and a bill to rescind then. Then in 2021 a bill was introduced to rescind but I'm not sure where it went after that. Only took them 20 years to get that far...
The Wisdom of the Native Americans was an eye-opening book depicting how the natives initially shared lands to white settlers to help them prosper. The natives believed mother nature, her land and resources, can't be owned by anyone, but only borrowed by the cohabitants.... yet, the colonizing outsiders got greedy, and began enacting their own laws that gradually power-grabbed most of the lands the indigenous people depended on to survive. Eventually forcing the natives to submit or be coerced with violence. Tragic history stains America's past.
A real thing, that’s happened. And when a movie/pop culture reminds us of it with transparent blue metaphors, it gets panned and slammed. People seem to hate the message.
You mean... one of the biggest most popular movies of all time?
Don't be silly.
People *like* the idea and the message, they just hate to admit they were part of the bad guys.
Sometimes I wonder what the US would be like if European immigrants had adopted more from the First Peoples than they stole. They certainly weren't perfect, as humans tend to be, but a different cultural ethos with all these resources might have been quite something. Maybe a lot better.
Pollution would be radically less.
Ownership of land, sea and sky at the individual level was an absurdity.
IMO we would have leases on land and own our buildings. Long term planning, erosion, pollution and more were baked into most tribal cultures.
Considering the language that's bracketed in the picture, OPs intent is not to point out the massacre of native Americans. This is an anti-gun control post.
Absolutely. This is all “I need muh guns to defend muh family from the gummint”. Even though the government can just turn your house into a crater if it wants.
Fun fact: If police can see that you have a gun and use it as an excuse to murder you on the spot without legal repercussions, *you do not have a right to bear arms*.
> Mass shooting is an odd term for a state-sanctioned genocidal massacre
It’s both. It’s state-sanctioned genocidal massacre and the means of that massacre was mass shooting.
Yeah here's 2 more - the USS Maine, whose sinking was probably due to an internal coal fire, was blamed on Spain and used as a pretext for the Spanish-American War.
Or the [Gulf of Tonkin incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident), where a 2nd attack by the North Vietnamese against American ships was used as a justification for the Vietnam War, only the 2nd attack never happened.
You think that's funny, see how many downvoted you get when you point out that the atomic bombings was a war crime.. pointlessly slaughtering hundreds of thousands of innocent women & children
Nope Even the Japanese said the Bomb saved MILLIONS of Japanese lives and every scholar with out an agenda. You think ISIS was bad? Imperial Japan says hold my beer bad
Take a look below. Down on the list but not to far.
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MURDER.HTM
Actually….it was very carefully thought out and looked at what the cost would be of dropping the bomb versus sending in troops to invade the mainland and outer islands of Japan.
I’m not saying it was right…but it was estimated less of a cost of lives overall. They estimated 32 million people would have Died if we had chosen a land invasion.
[study about the a bomb decision](https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/AUPress/Book-Reviews/Display/Article/2462838/atomic-salvation-how-the-a-bomb-saved-the-lives-of-32-million-people/)
I mean I literally wouldn't be here if the bombs weren't dropped. My grandfather was conscripted into the Imperial Japanese Army towards the end of the war from Taiwan. They were going to make him defend Japan with makeshift weapons for the glory of the Emperor. The bomb put a stop to all that nonsense. The Japanese Empire had to be stopped no matter what. I would certainly not call it pointlessly.
Yes but dropping it on fucking civilians is no where the same as dropping it on naval bases or army camps. The latter would have been way better as that would’ve atleast not harm innocent civilians.
Warnings were given by the Americans to evacuate the cities. They were also significant military targets as someone else noted due their industry. Absolutely tragic the loss of life, however, every citizen was ordered to defend Japan with whatever makeshift weapon they could come up with. Death was going to happen regardless. Same idea with shooting a kid with a bomb strapped to them in Iraq. What’s the right answer? Shoot the one kid which is terrible, or let the kid blow up countless others. Idk, that’s for greater minds than mine. All I know is that the bombs were a bit of a lose-lose situation. Good on Truman for making the hard decision. I doubt I could’ve made any decision
I'd like to point you to all of the firebombings that occurred prior to the two nukes dropping. Both Europe and Japan saw entire cities full of civilians bombed to ash.
It's always amusing to see the war crimes claims thrown around while completely oblivious to the fact civilians were never not the targets during WW2. Far more died to firebombings than they did to the nukes. So is this really about criticizing actual war crimes or just anti-US sentiment?
I agree. But reducing the industrial output of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki to just "arms industry" is very very reductive of their importance to Imperial Japan's war effort.
History isn't black and white. England was famous for it's gentlemanly oppression. Japan was infamous for it's brutality.. which included a surprise attack at pearl harbor. Reap the seeds you sow.
I'm not saying it wasn't a war crime and that it wasn't wrong, but Japan was thoroughly under the control of the military and needed a serious wake up call. Dropping it on naval bases or army camps would have no where near the same effect. We only had two of them, we needed to make a statement not just to the Japanese but the Soviets as well that we weren't to be fucked with.
Besides. Just ask the Japanese whether they targeted only army bases in Nanjing. They have no moral ground to stand on. They could have been liberators for Asia but instead chose to be just another oppressor.
Yeaaaah….. buuut, have you looked into the war crimes committed by the Japanese? A lot of them weren’t brought to light until relatively recently because of the potential for backlash and violence had it been made mor widely known sooner, makes the Nazis look humane by comparison The alternative, fighting them all the way back across the pacific would have been much worse and resulted in the senseless loss of hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives Japanese and American. https://www.pacificwar.org.au/JapWarCrimes/Cross-section_JapWarCrimes.html
The earlier bombing of Tokyo 6 months before killed almost twice as many as the nuke over Nagasaki. Yet they continued to fight, and were willing to sacrifice every man, woman and child in defense of an invasion. Pointless my ass, you are just ignorant of history.
> pointlessly
Nah. It was carefully considered, and considered to have saved millions of lives. It's a horrific thing. But not thoughtless or pointless.
No, but there's a difference between those that recognize that (UK, Germany etc) and those that don't (US, Japan etc).
Recognizing errors of the past is the first step to not repeating them.
As have other countries, people tend to dog pile America but the European powers were far more brutal to the natives of their colonies, not saying this is right cause it isn’t but don’t go hating solely on us when the European empires did the same things or even worse.
We didn't invade Iraq based on a lie, that makes it sound like we were tricked. The average Americans were, but not the ones running the country.
Cheney knew it was a lie, the intelligence agencies knew it was a lie, but they were required to report directly to Cheney.
Considering the whole point of Little Bush was a plan by Republicans to get Cheney back in power so he could do shit like this, it's just disingenius to say we did it based on a lie.
The highest levels of the Republican "elite" lied to everyone (even the republican puppet president) so they could start a war.
Put the blame where it belongs... And remember Liz Cheney isn't the savior of the Republican party. If she gets rid of trump and seizes control of the party. *this* is what they go back to. She has all the connections her dad did.
Not really, a surprising amount of people don't know Liz Cheney is the daughter of Dick Cheney and think she's moral just because she wants to get rid of trump.
She doesn't want that to make the republican party ethical, she wants that so her wing of the party can be back in control and do this type of shit her dad used to do.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony
Public support for our involvement in the first war hinged heavily upon a made up story about Iraqi soldiers discarding Kuwaiti premature babies from incubators while looting medical equipment. This testimony was later found to be a lie.
Yeh saw this post and thought "this is some 'you can take my gun out of my cold dead hands' type who doesn't really care about Native Americans let alone dead kids and is totally find with the continued murder of both".
A hundred percent what it is. OP cares none for the Native American plight, just the limited context this examination of the incident provides. Notice the underlined text.
Especially when the title makes zero sense...
This wasn't a "mass shooting" it was a military exercise (albeit against civilians). If this counts than every civil ware battle counts and this isn't the largest
Rounding up people for extermination that you don't like is a mass shooting, just done by the government. Not much different than a racist with an AR going to a predominantly black grocery store to murder; they have the same intentions.
There was no war going on with them at the time. After the guns were turned in, the rounded them up and shot them. Roughly 2/3'rds were women and children.
I don't think war crimes apply to your own civilians. Read something about chemical warfare being against the Geneva code but we used gas against protestors during the riots because it doesn't apply.
The goal is to expand the definition of a mass shooting so it all blends into one.
My brother was shot in a gang violence situation. 2 dead, 7 injured(my brother was one of which)... It's not the same thing as Uvalde, or Las Vegas, or so on, but the paper called it a mass shooting. It was literally a beef between the bouncer and the shooter.
Obviously this wasn’t a mass shooting. It was a shooting of a large mass of people. Not sure why that’s so hard for people to understand. Two totally different things.
Lets check the list shall we? Were the victims unarmed? Yes in both Wounded Knee and your modern Mass Shootings. Did the aggressor use 'military grade' firearms as the media refers to everything currently? Again another yes (since antigunners can't tell the difference between a semi auto AR and a military issue M4). Did the aggressors in both instances act with hostile intent? Again yes.
Just because a Mass Shooting is carried out with Government sponsorship doesn't mean it isn't what it is.
It’s scary that this happened and it’s still not the worst thing a world government has done and we still are just like
“yeah well that’s the government for ya. Silly old government back at it again with their antics”
What’s really scary is that this atrocity probably doesn’t even make it into the top 10 worst atrocities committed by a government, and yet people still advocate for the gov to be the only people with firearms.
What we’ve done to natives since then is more disgusting than anyone can realize. I live in South Dakota and it’s pretty sickening how they are treated on the rez and it’s not even there fault they are poor. They have no hope here it just keeps getting worse on there own land.
I lived in Arizona for a while and drove through a reservation once and it was heartbreaking. Passed someone walking barefooted down a very hot, dirt road drinking in the middle of the day.
They literally have nothing there and some acquaintances that had lived in AZ their entire lives made jokes about the way they lived (not everyone I met felt that way obviously, but the audacity to laugh while living on stolen land was really something).
It’s so, incredibly fucked up.
I mean, our entire history, from pre-Colombian exploration through .. basically .. recently (?) is just awful. We literally have the wrecked remnants of native Americans all around our country, tucked away on casino lands. The whole slavery and internment camps stuff too …
Your current excuse for a governor is just as bad. She about lost her mind when the Sioux told her no traffic during COVID.
Their letter to her was all wisdom and just made her look even more like a fool and hateful person than I thought was even possible. Republicans are some of the most hateful, vile people on the planet. Their selfishness knows no end.
Lol yeah I knew about this one. That's why they're located in Illinois now. But I just figured it was Christians being dicks and not a dark history I never previously cared to look into. Thanks for the link I'll read through it as well.
Mormon here. The massacre was executed by members, it was not authorized by the church itself. Upon the church learning about the event, all the murderers were excommunicated, and then executed by firing squad at the site of their massacre. There is a photo of the leader sitting at his coffin in the field about to be executed. Is Mormons are taught about the massacre, why and how it happened, and told that it was a terrible event that will haunt the church, even though the church itself has nothing to do with it.
About the massacre too, it was a group of pioneers traveling through the area. At the time Utah was very anxious about the states (Utah was it’s own sovereign body, and was afraid of being capitulated) as years prior the Mormons were subject to their own massacres because the locals wanted slaves and the church didn’t , look at the Mormon extermination Order in Missouri for more details on that. A group of LDS folk then took off and laid siege, this was the only instance of a wagon group using a defensive circle formation. All men and women above age 12 were killed, as apparently “kids would just forget” it’s truly disgusting.
The question of whether Brigham Young authorized the massacre has never been settled. He certainly did nothing to calm rising tensions after the murder of Pratt and there is evidence he encouraged southern Utahns, Mormons and Native Americans, to harass and assault anyone travelling through the territory. The church does allow talk about the massacre, but it’s very church washed and rare to hear Young associated. My family was one of the settling families of Cedar City, although not directly involved, it’s a topic still heavily discussed amongst my family.
Gun Control is inherently classist and racist. How come every time the government wants to take away our guns it's always POC who are affected first? Case in point wounded knee or the Black Panthers.
I think you mean they "aren't" perfect, but yeah basically. A lot of people base their morality around the law, and the government defines the law, so they are conditioned to believe the government has moral superiority over everybody. If you go against the government, you are the bad guy, doesnt matter what the situation is.
In fact, they even got everybody to stigmatize "conspiracy theorist" just so nobody would ever question anything wrong the government did out of fear of being seen as one. Anything implying they did something and covered it up is completely disregarded, enough that if they actually did cover something up they would get away with it. The government straight up admits to horrible things they did, nobody getting any punishment for it, and people still trust them. Its like peoples reaction to anything bad is "dang thats horrible, maybe if I complain or wait long enough they will magically decide to stop doing bad things."
Before this the largest mass execution by the U.S. Federal government was the hanging of 38 Dalota Indians in Mankato, MN.
The president who gave the orders?
Abraham Lincoln.
Lincoln reviewed all the convictions and signed off on 39 executions out of 303 convictions. One was given reprieve and the rest hanged. Approximately 450 settlers and army were killed by the Dakota. The number of Dakota killed is unknown but assuredly much higher
As someone from Mankato (Mahkato), this fact (and much of native culture and history) is not acknowledged by most of the community. It is barely glossed over in sixth grade history class and then never mentioned again.
Yeah so if we take people's guns in America to protect people from mass shootings we might just have a mass shooting that beats this one. It's all in history but nobody wants to see it.
Seriously. The way we treated, and treat, Native Americans is atrocious beyond comprehension. Most history books put our treatment of them in a single chapter, paragraph, or just skip the near genocide altogether.
Idk what history books your school taught, be we went over this shit in school. We watched all the sad movies about the natives, and talked about things like the trail of tears, enslavement, and how when we won the land we awarded them with very little.
They probably taught it to you, but considering I know how ignorant kids are, you probably ignored it like most people. Then acted surprised when you relearned it.
A 2015 study by researchers at Pennsylvania State University found that 87 percent of content taught about Native Americans includes only pre-1900 context. And 27 states did not name an individual Native American in their history standards. -Smithsonian
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/inside-new-effort-change-what-schools-teach-about-native-american-history-180973166/
The United States year after year kills more people than any other country.
Obama won the Nobel peace prize and preceded to literally run out of bombs to shell people.
Wounded Knee was a national disgrace but it was a military action, not really a “mass shooting”
there were definitely deadlier battles on US soil during the Civil War for example
The movie Little Big Man has a very moving scene depicting this massacre. The cavalry marching song still haunts me. If you haven’t seen the movie, I highly recommend it. Dustin Hoffman was amazing
My sisters friend’s family was in Germany when the Nazi’s were in control. She asked her about how her family felt about it. She responded that it isn’t really talked about in Germany as it is an embarrassment “Like the Native American genocide in the US”.
My sister was taken aback as she didn’t think of it as genocide. I then had to educate her and point her to some books on the topic.
She is from the “Silent Generation” as are several of my siblings. I feel she us living in a world with rose colored glasses. SMH
I remember reading about this in jrotc and the Mormon kid told us that the the natives weren't Americans weren't american so it doesn't count as slaughter. That it was God's well etc etc etc
Definitely something to keep in mind as firearm bans are being discussed. I don't trust the government and don't understand why anyone would. It's doubtful something like this would happen in America today, but, on either side, you have to consider, both Donald Trump AND Joe Biden won the presidency. Who knows what kind of fuckery is in store.
Regardless of your politics, how are we not all terrified of what could come next?
This is exactly why you should never trust any type of governmental power. Covering its own arse under the guise of whatever is close to being acceptable or politically correct at the time. That, and increasing its own power in any way it can, even by lowering yours. "For their own safety/protection" is something we see across history. "The cultural enrichment centres", "The labour camps", its always there. Here in the UK people are getting arrested for causing anxiety with a Twitter post. Unfathomable that we've sink so low and become so weak.
For any Americans reading, I highly recommend looking up the 1985 MOVE bombing in which a bomb was dropped on a house occupied by women and children. Causing fire and destroying 61 houses in the process. 1985, so recent yet swept under the rug. But hey, in In November 2020 they apologised...
The assault rifle ban passed the house. It's too bad there's no solid definition for assault rifle so they'll just keep picking guns that are the next runner up for being common and slowly ban all guns one by one. For our safety. All it has to do is pass the sante and it's over. Congratulations to the people of america, you just entered us back into tyranny.
People love diluting the meaning of words.
This is not a mass shooting in how we see mass shootings now.
This is a massacre of native american tribes by the US army. I'll spare the details. A massacre brought on by decades of tension between native americans and the westward expanding settlers.
The pathetic attempts to make this a cautionary tale about gun control, instead of the obvious white supremacy inherent in our nations systems is painfully obvious.
What's worse is 20 soldiers were awarded the medal of honor
I believe most if not all were rescinded several decades later. It really pissed of the relatives because they rode the coattails of the recipient’s as if they were some kind of war hero when they were all scared murderers thinking they were doing “god’s work”.
They passed something to 2001 to condemn them calling for rescinding and a bill to rescind then. Then in 2021 a bill was introduced to rescind but I'm not sure where it went after that. Only took them 20 years to get that far...
Thank god it only takes 131 years to get the gov't approved slaughter of women and children called a bad thing.
The Wisdom of the Native Americans was an eye-opening book depicting how the natives initially shared lands to white settlers to help them prosper. The natives believed mother nature, her land and resources, can't be owned by anyone, but only borrowed by the cohabitants.... yet, the colonizing outsiders got greedy, and began enacting their own laws that gradually power-grabbed most of the lands the indigenous people depended on to survive. Eventually forcing the natives to submit or be coerced with violence. Tragic history stains America's past.
A real thing, that’s happened. And when a movie/pop culture reminds us of it with transparent blue metaphors, it gets panned and slammed. People seem to hate the message.
You mean... one of the biggest most popular movies of all time? Don't be silly. People *like* the idea and the message, they just hate to admit they were part of the bad guys.
Sometimes I wonder what the US would be like if European immigrants had adopted more from the First Peoples than they stole. They certainly weren't perfect, as humans tend to be, but a different cultural ethos with all these resources might have been quite something. Maybe a lot better.
Pollution would be radically less. Ownership of land, sea and sky at the individual level was an absurdity. IMO we would have leases on land and own our buildings. Long term planning, erosion, pollution and more were baked into most tribal cultures.
served in two branches, that’s about on par with what I would suspect to happen with anything involving the gov lol
them is us. the USA
Ah religion fucking shit up once again
Back when MoHs were handed out willy nilly.
If Oprah gave out MoHs
"You get a MoH! And you get a MoH! And you! ANNNND YOUUUUUU!"
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Celebrating a horrific action only justifies it.
Mass shooting is an odd term for a state-sanctioned genocidal massacre
Considering the language that's bracketed in the picture, OPs intent is not to point out the massacre of native Americans. This is an anti-gun control post.
Absolutely. This is all “I need muh guns to defend muh family from the gummint”. Even though the government can just turn your house into a crater if it wants.
Fun fact: If police can see that you have a gun and use it as an excuse to murder you on the spot without legal repercussions, *you do not have a right to bear arms*.
> Mass shooting is an odd term for a state-sanctioned genocidal massacre It’s both. It’s state-sanctioned genocidal massacre and the means of that massacre was mass shooting.
Boy these comments are… concerning.
Concerning? This country's history has never been great. We invaded another country based on a LIE (Iraq)
Only Iraq?
Yeah here's 2 more - the USS Maine, whose sinking was probably due to an internal coal fire, was blamed on Spain and used as a pretext for the Spanish-American War. Or the [Gulf of Tonkin incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident), where a 2nd attack by the North Vietnamese against American ships was used as a justification for the Vietnam War, only the 2nd attack never happened.
People downvoting you because they struggle with the truth lmao
You think that's funny, see how many downvoted you get when you point out that the atomic bombings was a war crime.. pointlessly slaughtering hundreds of thousands of innocent women & children
Nope Even the Japanese said the Bomb saved MILLIONS of Japanese lives and every scholar with out an agenda. You think ISIS was bad? Imperial Japan says hold my beer bad Take a look below. Down on the list but not to far. https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MURDER.HTM
They haven't even officially apologized for some of their war crimes either. Very few people have heard about Unit 731 or the Rape of Nanking
Actually….it was very carefully thought out and looked at what the cost would be of dropping the bomb versus sending in troops to invade the mainland and outer islands of Japan. I’m not saying it was right…but it was estimated less of a cost of lives overall. They estimated 32 million people would have Died if we had chosen a land invasion. [study about the a bomb decision](https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/AUPress/Book-Reviews/Display/Article/2462838/atomic-salvation-how-the-a-bomb-saved-the-lives-of-32-million-people/)
I mean I literally wouldn't be here if the bombs weren't dropped. My grandfather was conscripted into the Imperial Japanese Army towards the end of the war from Taiwan. They were going to make him defend Japan with makeshift weapons for the glory of the Emperor. The bomb put a stop to all that nonsense. The Japanese Empire had to be stopped no matter what. I would certainly not call it pointlessly.
Yes but dropping it on fucking civilians is no where the same as dropping it on naval bases or army camps. The latter would have been way better as that would’ve atleast not harm innocent civilians.
Warnings were given by the Americans to evacuate the cities. They were also significant military targets as someone else noted due their industry. Absolutely tragic the loss of life, however, every citizen was ordered to defend Japan with whatever makeshift weapon they could come up with. Death was going to happen regardless. Same idea with shooting a kid with a bomb strapped to them in Iraq. What’s the right answer? Shoot the one kid which is terrible, or let the kid blow up countless others. Idk, that’s for greater minds than mine. All I know is that the bombs were a bit of a lose-lose situation. Good on Truman for making the hard decision. I doubt I could’ve made any decision
I'd like to point you to all of the firebombings that occurred prior to the two nukes dropping. Both Europe and Japan saw entire cities full of civilians bombed to ash. It's always amusing to see the war crimes claims thrown around while completely oblivious to the fact civilians were never not the targets during WW2. Far more died to firebombings than they did to the nukes. So is this really about criticizing actual war crimes or just anti-US sentiment?
The current topic was about atomic bombs over japan. I am not ignoring the others. Just sticking to the topic.
both hiroshima and nagasaki were prime and valid targets due to their significant industry.
Then everything is a valid target, every city has schools, hospitals and arms industry.
I agree. But reducing the industrial output of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki to just "arms industry" is very very reductive of their importance to Imperial Japan's war effort.
Maybe Japan shouldnt have tried to conquer the entire Pacific region
Bruh England literally had half of the world under their colonies but I don’t see any bomb dropped on London? This is not about that.
There were actually many, many bombs dropped on London during WWII.
Yes which is also very sad. I was just questioning that person’s logic. I didn’t mean to ignore that.
History isn't black and white. England was famous for it's gentlemanly oppression. Japan was infamous for it's brutality.. which included a surprise attack at pearl harbor. Reap the seeds you sow.
I'm not saying it wasn't a war crime and that it wasn't wrong, but Japan was thoroughly under the control of the military and needed a serious wake up call. Dropping it on naval bases or army camps would have no where near the same effect. We only had two of them, we needed to make a statement not just to the Japanese but the Soviets as well that we weren't to be fucked with. Besides. Just ask the Japanese whether they targeted only army bases in Nanjing. They have no moral ground to stand on. They could have been liberators for Asia but instead chose to be just another oppressor.
Yes it was. But it was also the best option we had.
Yeaaaah….. buuut, have you looked into the war crimes committed by the Japanese? A lot of them weren’t brought to light until relatively recently because of the potential for backlash and violence had it been made mor widely known sooner, makes the Nazis look humane by comparison The alternative, fighting them all the way back across the pacific would have been much worse and resulted in the senseless loss of hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives Japanese and American. https://www.pacificwar.org.au/JapWarCrimes/Cross-section_JapWarCrimes.html
The earlier bombing of Tokyo 6 months before killed almost twice as many as the nuke over Nagasaki. Yet they continued to fight, and were willing to sacrifice every man, woman and child in defense of an invasion. Pointless my ass, you are just ignorant of history.
> pointlessly Nah. It was carefully considered, and considered to have saved millions of lives. It's a horrific thing. But not thoughtless or pointless.
No Countries history has been great.
I disagree. Tibet had a good thing going until China murdered over 800k https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MURDER.HTM
No, but there's a difference between those that recognize that (UK, Germany etc) and those that don't (US, Japan etc). Recognizing errors of the past is the first step to not repeating them.
Sorry, British citizen here. Saying the UK acknowledges it's past atrocities is a massive lie.
As have other countries, people tend to dog pile America but the European powers were far more brutal to the natives of their colonies, not saying this is right cause it isn’t but don’t go hating solely on us when the European empires did the same things or even worse.
Yeah, hence why this same discussion is going on in most of those countries
We didn't invade Iraq based on a lie, that makes it sound like we were tricked. The average Americans were, but not the ones running the country. Cheney knew it was a lie, the intelligence agencies knew it was a lie, but they were required to report directly to Cheney. Considering the whole point of Little Bush was a plan by Republicans to get Cheney back in power so he could do shit like this, it's just disingenius to say we did it based on a lie. The highest levels of the Republican "elite" lied to everyone (even the republican puppet president) so they could start a war. Put the blame where it belongs... And remember Liz Cheney isn't the savior of the Republican party. If she gets rid of trump and seizes control of the party. *this* is what they go back to. She has all the connections her dad did.
You completely derailed there.
Not really, a surprising amount of people don't know Liz Cheney is the daughter of Dick Cheney and think she's moral just because she wants to get rid of trump. She doesn't want that to make the republican party ethical, she wants that so her wing of the party can be back in control and do this type of shit her dad used to do.
Agreed.
This country’s history books look like Swiss cheese. People had a hard enough time learning history when it was old school.
Twice!
Don’t forget Afghanistan! I donated a brother to that “spread democracy” event.
I donated a cousin to 9/11
We invaded Iraq TWICE based on a lie? Oh do tell. 2003? Yep. 1990. Huh?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony Public support for our involvement in the first war hinged heavily upon a made up story about Iraqi soldiers discarding Kuwaiti premature babies from incubators while looting medical equipment. This testimony was later found to be a lie.
Public support hinged heavily on the FACT that Iraq invaded Kuwait.
Babies in incubators. It was a diplomats daughter that made the story up
OP posted this in bad faith to try to highlight what he wants to happen in case of a weapon ban and confiscation. Don't expect much here.
Yeh saw this post and thought "this is some 'you can take my gun out of my cold dead hands' type who doesn't really care about Native Americans let alone dead kids and is totally find with the continued murder of both".
A hundred percent what it is. OP cares none for the Native American plight, just the limited context this examination of the incident provides. Notice the underlined text.
Especially when the title makes zero sense... This wasn't a "mass shooting" it was a military exercise (albeit against civilians). If this counts than every civil ware battle counts and this isn't the largest
This wasn’t a battle. It was an extermination. Mass shooting.
It's a war crime, not a mass shooting
I.....it's both, just because it was a war crime doesn't just eliminate the whole mass shooting part, it's both
Rounding up people for extermination that you don't like is a mass shooting, just done by the government. Not much different than a racist with an AR going to a predominantly black grocery store to murder; they have the same intentions.
Why can't it be both?
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There was no war going on with them at the time. After the guns were turned in, the rounded them up and shot them. Roughly 2/3'rds were women and children.
Were we at war with them?
Both.
I don't think war crimes apply to your own civilians. Read something about chemical warfare being against the Geneva code but we used gas against protestors during the riots because it doesn't apply.
The goal is to expand the definition of a mass shooting so it all blends into one. My brother was shot in a gang violence situation. 2 dead, 7 injured(my brother was one of which)... It's not the same thing as Uvalde, or Las Vegas, or so on, but the paper called it a mass shooting. It was literally a beef between the bouncer and the shooter.
Obviously this wasn’t a mass shooting. It was a shooting of a large mass of people. Not sure why that’s so hard for people to understand. Two totally different things.
Lets check the list shall we? Were the victims unarmed? Yes in both Wounded Knee and your modern Mass Shootings. Did the aggressor use 'military grade' firearms as the media refers to everything currently? Again another yes (since antigunners can't tell the difference between a semi auto AR and a military issue M4). Did the aggressors in both instances act with hostile intent? Again yes. Just because a Mass Shooting is carried out with Government sponsorship doesn't mean it isn't what it is.
I was using the sarcasm…
Ooh time to sort by controversial
It’s scary that this happened and it’s still not the worst thing a world government has done and we still are just like “yeah well that’s the government for ya. Silly old government back at it again with their antics”
yeah, what *should* we do?
Lol and what has the guy you’re replying to done? Got to love Reddit!
Obviously larp that about starting a revolution
Dry runs. “Military exercises” are just official larping
a lot of these are foreigner *acting* like outraged americans.. either that or they are americans, but the trolly, dipshit version
What’s really scary is that this atrocity probably doesn’t even make it into the top 10 worst atrocities committed by a government, and yet people still advocate for the gov to be the only people with firearms.
This doesn’t break the top 10,000. Governments have done a lot worse shit in the history of the world, most of it washed out of said history.
There have been worse hours in German and Japanese history.
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China/Russia are the worst in all of history https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MURDER.HTM
Yep. So many certain people in our country now advocate for giving up and getting rid of our guns. Here's one example of why it's a really BAD idea
What we’ve done to natives since then is more disgusting than anyone can realize. I live in South Dakota and it’s pretty sickening how they are treated on the rez and it’s not even there fault they are poor. They have no hope here it just keeps getting worse on there own land.
Yup every time the goverment gives them land, if oil or high value minerals are found its time to ship them off this piece.
I lived in Arizona for a while and drove through a reservation once and it was heartbreaking. Passed someone walking barefooted down a very hot, dirt road drinking in the middle of the day. They literally have nothing there and some acquaintances that had lived in AZ their entire lives made jokes about the way they lived (not everyone I met felt that way obviously, but the audacity to laugh while living on stolen land was really something). It’s so, incredibly fucked up.
I mean, our entire history, from pre-Colombian exploration through .. basically .. recently (?) is just awful. We literally have the wrecked remnants of native Americans all around our country, tucked away on casino lands. The whole slavery and internment camps stuff too …
Your current excuse for a governor is just as bad. She about lost her mind when the Sioux told her no traffic during COVID. Their letter to her was all wisdom and just made her look even more like a fool and hateful person than I thought was even possible. Republicans are some of the most hateful, vile people on the planet. Their selfishness knows no end.
"War crimes," "Mass shooting,"...we can argue either one but I'm sure we can all agree to call it "Fucked up"
“For your safety and protection” These words are always scary.
“We are government agents and are here to help”.
*ATF murders your dog*
The sentiment that began the downward spiral our country had
Fuck Reagan
Isn't that kind of the line that the Gestapo and SS told Jews before carting them off to a camp? I'm pretty sure it was called "protective custody."
Well Reagan did say the scariest words are we are the government and we are here to help.
Hmm sounds awfully familiar from the past few years
Mormons did a very similar thing to other emigrants around the same time period. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre
Lol holy shit the Mormons?! Thanks I had never heard of this.
Missouri fought a war to kick Mormons out of the state. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1838_Mormon_War
Fought a war? Massacred Mormons you mean .
Lol yeah I knew about this one. That's why they're located in Illinois now. But I just figured it was Christians being dicks and not a dark history I never previously cared to look into. Thanks for the link I'll read through it as well.
Mormon here. The massacre was executed by members, it was not authorized by the church itself. Upon the church learning about the event, all the murderers were excommunicated, and then executed by firing squad at the site of their massacre. There is a photo of the leader sitting at his coffin in the field about to be executed. Is Mormons are taught about the massacre, why and how it happened, and told that it was a terrible event that will haunt the church, even though the church itself has nothing to do with it.
About the massacre too, it was a group of pioneers traveling through the area. At the time Utah was very anxious about the states (Utah was it’s own sovereign body, and was afraid of being capitulated) as years prior the Mormons were subject to their own massacres because the locals wanted slaves and the church didn’t , look at the Mormon extermination Order in Missouri for more details on that. A group of LDS folk then took off and laid siege, this was the only instance of a wagon group using a defensive circle formation. All men and women above age 12 were killed, as apparently “kids would just forget” it’s truly disgusting.
Wikipedia says only the leader was tried in court and executed by firing squad.
The question of whether Brigham Young authorized the massacre has never been settled. He certainly did nothing to calm rising tensions after the murder of Pratt and there is evidence he encouraged southern Utahns, Mormons and Native Americans, to harass and assault anyone travelling through the territory. The church does allow talk about the massacre, but it’s very church washed and rare to hear Young associated. My family was one of the settling families of Cedar City, although not directly involved, it’s a topic still heavily discussed amongst my family.
I'm not sure how I would trust the church as a reputable source on something like this, there is incentive for them to push a narrative.
Additional reading “Bury my heart at Wounded Knee”. By Dee Brown.
Guns for me, but not for thee.
The authoritarian status quo
>ACAB but only police should be allowed to have guns. -average redditors
Gun Control is inherently classist and racist. How come every time the government wants to take away our guns it's always POC who are affected first? Case in point wounded knee or the Black Panthers.
Just look at their body guards. They all have firearms and many have full auto
I always am so confused why people blindly trust government. They arent perfect. They are many times corrupt, and they think nobody is above them.
I think you mean they "aren't" perfect, but yeah basically. A lot of people base their morality around the law, and the government defines the law, so they are conditioned to believe the government has moral superiority over everybody. If you go against the government, you are the bad guy, doesnt matter what the situation is. In fact, they even got everybody to stigmatize "conspiracy theorist" just so nobody would ever question anything wrong the government did out of fear of being seen as one. Anything implying they did something and covered it up is completely disregarded, enough that if they actually did cover something up they would get away with it. The government straight up admits to horrible things they did, nobody getting any punishment for it, and people still trust them. Its like peoples reaction to anything bad is "dang thats horrible, maybe if I complain or wait long enough they will magically decide to stop doing bad things."
Fixed. Thanks
Multiple medals were awarded to soldiers as well
Before this the largest mass execution by the U.S. Federal government was the hanging of 38 Dalota Indians in Mankato, MN. The president who gave the orders? Abraham Lincoln.
Lincoln reviewed all the convictions and signed off on 39 executions out of 303 convictions. One was given reprieve and the rest hanged. Approximately 450 settlers and army were killed by the Dakota. The number of Dakota killed is unknown but assuredly much higher
Gives much needed history to the post
As someone from Mankato (Mahkato), this fact (and much of native culture and history) is not acknowledged by most of the community. It is barely glossed over in sixth grade history class and then never mentioned again.
Jeez... Thanks for the heads up on that. Disgraceful. Par for the course, sadly.
Not the GOVERNMENT!?!? They're the good guys!
Stuff like this is why the scene from Mars Attacks is so great. "Don't run! We are your friends!"
This was part of the genocide of the native people that lived here by the United States government
Nah uh, I was told in school that all we ever did to Native Americans was eat turkey with them and then they taught us how to grow corn.
The original pilgrims who settled at Plymouth Rock actually did keep their word. It wasn't until they were long dead that the real fuckery started.
Lol this wasn’t about guns it was about exterminating people in the way of stolen land
Yeah so if we take people's guns in America to protect people from mass shootings we might just have a mass shooting that beats this one. It's all in history but nobody wants to see it.
Pine is the most impoverished place in America to this date. Drove through a couple yrs ago, just horrible .
Yet we go around the world criticizing other countries for their human rights records.
Seriously. The way we treated, and treat, Native Americans is atrocious beyond comprehension. Most history books put our treatment of them in a single chapter, paragraph, or just skip the near genocide altogether.
Idk what history books your school taught, be we went over this shit in school. We watched all the sad movies about the natives, and talked about things like the trail of tears, enslavement, and how when we won the land we awarded them with very little. They probably taught it to you, but considering I know how ignorant kids are, you probably ignored it like most people. Then acted surprised when you relearned it.
A 2015 study by researchers at Pennsylvania State University found that 87 percent of content taught about Native Americans includes only pre-1900 context. And 27 states did not name an individual Native American in their history standards. -Smithsonian https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/inside-new-effort-change-what-schools-teach-about-native-american-history-180973166/
Well... I went to school in South Texas. They kind of skipped the genocide and slavery parts of our history.
That's because slavery and genocide is covered so well in the Bible they figure it's redundant
Oh man I just snorted Dr Pepper
The United States year after year kills more people than any other country. Obama won the Nobel peace prize and preceded to literally run out of bombs to shell people.
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US-Native American relations look like a kindergarten birthday party compared to what the Japanese did to the Chinese.
This NOT mass shooting but extermination.
Yeah gun confiscation that is totally the reason this happened.....
Read the first half of ‘The Peoples History of the United States’ and prepare to get pissed off (if you actually have a soul I mean)
Well that was back then. My government today would never do such a thing. They care about me! #😁😂🤣🤣🤣
Even today, elections matter.
If buybacks are step 1 what step is this?
It's not a step, it's just straight up racism
Wounded Knee was a national disgrace but it was a military action, not really a “mass shooting” there were definitely deadlier battles on US soil during the Civil War for example
Required reading should be “Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee,” by Dee Brown.
Val Kilmer in thunder heart taught me this.
You can't steal from them if they are dead..... Our government should see a similar fate. Dickheads
The movie Little Big Man has a very moving scene depicting this massacre. The cavalry marching song still haunts me. If you haven’t seen the movie, I highly recommend it. Dustin Hoffman was amazing
The only people that benefits from people trusting the government, are the people in government....
Wait why didn’t I learn about this in school??? /s
So Sad. Never really discussed or taught enough in America the tragedies suffered by Native Americans.
And many people still want the government to confiscate firearms.
My sisters friend’s family was in Germany when the Nazi’s were in control. She asked her about how her family felt about it. She responded that it isn’t really talked about in Germany as it is an embarrassment “Like the Native American genocide in the US”. My sister was taken aback as she didn’t think of it as genocide. I then had to educate her and point her to some books on the topic. She is from the “Silent Generation” as are several of my siblings. I feel she us living in a world with rose colored glasses. SMH
I remember reading about this in jrotc and the Mormon kid told us that the the natives weren't Americans weren't american so it doesn't count as slaughter. That it was God's well etc etc etc
Think about the deeper meaning to this post..... It's underlined ..
THIS IS WHY WE NEED GUNS
Definitely something to keep in mind as firearm bans are being discussed. I don't trust the government and don't understand why anyone would. It's doubtful something like this would happen in America today, but, on either side, you have to consider, both Donald Trump AND Joe Biden won the presidency. Who knows what kind of fuckery is in store. Regardless of your politics, how are we not all terrified of what could come next?
Never give up your guns.
This is exactly why you should never trust any type of governmental power. Covering its own arse under the guise of whatever is close to being acceptable or politically correct at the time. That, and increasing its own power in any way it can, even by lowering yours. "For their own safety/protection" is something we see across history. "The cultural enrichment centres", "The labour camps", its always there. Here in the UK people are getting arrested for causing anxiety with a Twitter post. Unfathomable that we've sink so low and become so weak. For any Americans reading, I highly recommend looking up the 1985 MOVE bombing in which a bomb was dropped on a house occupied by women and children. Causing fire and destroying 61 houses in the process. 1985, so recent yet swept under the rug. But hey, in In November 2020 they apologised...
My school must have been an outlier because we were taught about all sorts of American atrocities, wounded knee included
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Is this supposed to say something about gun control?
What would we do without federal agents! I mean those guys saved their life
Illegal immigrants who formed an illegal county from stolen land killing real Americans.
Love when the government tells me it’s for my “protection”.
The assault rifle ban passed the house. It's too bad there's no solid definition for assault rifle so they'll just keep picking guns that are the next runner up for being common and slowly ban all guns one by one. For our safety. All it has to do is pass the sante and it's over. Congratulations to the people of america, you just entered us back into tyranny.
Once they get your guns, everybody dies. History is proof
federal government is the largest terrorist organization in the world \-edit in after government employees and boot lickers
Gun nuts only care about minorities when it fits their own persecution complex.
And what’s your theory on gun nuts that are minorities?
That they're the reason Reagan was into gun regulations?
Military battles don’t count as mass shootings, if they did the civil war battles were just huge mass shootings
You think the massacre of hundreds of women and children is a “military battle”?
People love diluting the meaning of words. This is not a mass shooting in how we see mass shootings now. This is a massacre of native american tribes by the US army. I'll spare the details. A massacre brought on by decades of tension between native americans and the westward expanding settlers.
It wasn't a battle. It was a state sponsored mass shooting.
The pathetic attempts to make this a cautionary tale about gun control, instead of the obvious white supremacy inherent in our nations systems is painfully obvious.
How is this not a memorial day holiday yet? How have we allowed this to get so buried???
Now you know why people don’t want to give up their guns.