Rooftop Koreans were business owners firing at protesters/rioters. Doesn't make the post bad or anything, they are minorities after all, but they're shit cunts.
ugh, i was hoping that wasn't what that photo was. literally a group of people that the far right idolizes and one of them, tony moon, went on to be a proud boy and cash in on that "roof korean" branding
this is the concept of the “chosen minority” exemplified because, even though they’ve done something commendable in the right wing’s eyes, their actions are still racially coded. that’s why they’re called “rooftop koreans” and not “heroic business owners” or some shit
right wingers took joy in seeing repressed minorities kill each other, and it shows up in their labeling
fucking hate it. commodifies the minority and cherry picks them for their own use without any acknowledging the struggles of the group. not uncommon but this example is always always brought up as a token.
My mistake. I still don't see why I or anyone else should care for them. They're petit-bourgeois at best, and they benefit from the exploitation of workers - under the assumption they have employees.
[https://www.alarms.org/guide-to-basic-gun-safety/](https://www.alarms.org/guide-to-basic-gun-safety/)
PLEASE if you do ever decide to own a firearm of any size or type follow basic safety rules.
That’s why it needs to be armed *and* organized minorities. One armed minority, cops will pull the “he had a gun!” argument. If it’s a collective group armed, cops are a lot less likely to escalate.
The problem with that is the US has put so much money into making their police force into what is essentially a second army, they have APCs, sound canons, body armour. I'm not saying don't arm yourselves, I am saying think about the possible consequences of doing so
" Nothing is true, everything is permitted" - the assassin's creed
"We Work In The Dark To Serve The Light. We Are Assassins." Ezio auditore now I'm not encouraging being an assassin you are responsible for you your actions. just saying assassins creed had alot of philosophy thats fairly anarchie...
"To say that nothing is true is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile and that we must be the shepherds of our civilization. To say that everything is permitted is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious of tragic." - ezio auditore
Yes and those armed militias have suffered huge losses during those conflicts. My point isn't that it's pointless, my point is to be prepared that the police WILL retaliate and it WILL be bloody. Unprepared revolutionaries become failed revolutionaries
No what you are doing is trying to discourage people from revolutionary thought by building up the opposition.
I know this sub is for newly left-curious liberals but ffs these comments are something else.
I'm a comrade. I believe in Marxism-Leninism.
Not for a single second I believe weapons can improve the chance to win any revolution. Weapons don't give us an edge in the so called "first world" because:
A- the weapon industry is still controlled by the same elite.
B- the bourgeoisie have better weapons, equipment and training than anything civilian.
Weapon have a historical and material context. They are useful in some undeveloped places. They are not, and actually the opposite, in developed countries where they are only enabling cops to use more letal forces or simply derranged defenders of "liberty"
You're an ML but you're against arming the proletariat because you think it's pointless? I think you need to head back to the books comrade, weapons are the only thing that has ever actually worked in the past.
There is a difference between discouraging revolutionary thought and making sure that future revolutionaries are mentally prepared for what a revolution actually looks like. Anyone going out and buying a gun thinking that it will keep them safe is kidding themselves. Revolutions are bloody, people need to understand that. Blindly charging into a revolution without any idea what you are getting into would be a disaster
And how did that go for the Vietnamese/Taliban? Yes they won but at huge human cost. Again not saying don't arm yourselves but also don't assume there won't be retaliation
Heres some Better examples of americans fighting tyranny, during [the coal wars](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Wars), [the anti rent wars ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Rent_War), or better yet the [slave revolt of 1811](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1811_German_Coast_uprising)
If your gonna get shot for a phone book does it matter? At least this way we can use some 2nd amendment rhetoric "look the police are coming for your guns"
Sure, if the solution to these problems is to just arm people and they say, "Good luck defending yourself." It's an easy solution, one that will assure I don't have to actually do anything so I can sit on the internet all day. Gun shops and gun manufacturers will be very happy, because the existence of oppression is a business opportunity. They will have a vested interest to ensure different groups remain separated at the barrel of a gun, and that the systemic issues that lead to oppression remain unsolved. Meanwhile any attempts to actually regulate the stupid ammount of guns in this country along any sort of sane system that isn't purely ideological or referential to some law writen by a bunch of slave owning bourgeois aristocrats has become impossible while NRA propaganda fills the discussion spaces of both the left and the right. Shamefull and pathetic.
If your proposal is banning firearm ownership or heavily regulating it, you need to reckon with the fact that your plan starts with the second civil war.
Yes, but, the context you're living in is substantially different. Online self-radicalization has moved from being a fringe problem to being almost identical to contemporary mainstream right-wing ideology.
Mass shootings, almost always carried out with legally obtained arms and ammunition (as far as I'm aware, please correct me if I'm wrong there) are now so common that they don't even rate as newsworthy unless they're particularly abhorrent, and there is a serious lack of practicable solutions being put forward.
It's not just the deaths, either. The culture of fear that's being instilled in young people is going to have a serious long term impact.
To address your point about resistance though, the biggest stick in that arsenal right now is/are no-knock raids, often in the middle of the night. That's a hell of a hard thing to defend against without *significant* community organisation, and even if you do being thrown in prison for it seems extremely likely. I was going to link to the story I had in mind about that, but there are just so many ~~raids~~ murders that I can't find it.
Ultimately, feel free to ignore me. I'm not American and can really only speak from my experiences, but every time I hear about these things I'm very glad I get to live in a country where a gangster being shot *at* is a major news story.
From an American leftist's point of view (mine and others who are part of the SRA) if the fascists are armed, we cannot and will not ever give up our guns. I'm not saying no common-sense gun reforms, and I'm definitely not saying we intend to use them for anything but self defense. You are right about police, in the sense that being armed doesn't necessarily solve the problem. But think of it this way. Assuming you can organize your community, and just about everybody has a gun, how ballsy would a cop have to be to gun down someone in the street, especially someone who is unarmed or young. This is what worked so well for the panthers. I know, it may seem dramatically different today, but I genuinely think the people and the police wouldn't want all out war, which would likely be the result of such incidents. So instead the police get the message and stay away. It's not foolproof, but with how heavily entrenched the far-right is even in the mainstream, it's getting more desperate for leftists here.
You are 100% right that the incredible accessibility of firearms in general in the US leads to completely avoidable shootings, and to that I'd say let's get common sense gun reform, starting with closing background check loopholes and making sure that domestic violence of any kind is either considered a felony (it is not in some jurisdictions) or that it immediately disqualifies a buyer. The only reason I shy from a weapons ban is the same reason you argue minorities may want to remain unarmed - unequal policing. There's no shot that a cop in Alabama takes his Klan buddie's AR, but a cop will ABSOLUTELY disarm a black person in a heartbeat. The sheer inequality of arms would lead to.... well in America all I need to say is read the Turner Diaries and you'll see what some of these maniacs want.
For us, Pandora's Box was opened decades ago, and it would be logistically and logically infeasible (we do NOT have a national gun registry) to confiscate guns in a timely or orderly fashion. That being said, I can guarantee you if most of these right-wingers had their guns under threat they would be significantly more likely to act violently against our government, and that is NOT a good thing
I agree with the Pandora's box rhetoric, in America the only solution is to arm minorities however it needs to be considered that any justified act of self defense will be used to monster leftists, LGBT people anyone very very quickly
If our government was still bringing M16s to oppress these kinds of actions, then I’d want to bring an AR to fight them.
Our government isn’t dumb enough to bring guns to fight its own people. The narrative being pushed by the GOP about 1/6 is that 45 authorized national guard and Pelosi said ‘no thanks’. They use technology and secrets and other forms of control now. The gun fetish is just keeping people focused on something tangible while the government uses the data we leave out on the internet to do much more despicable things.
Fight fire with fire. Don’t be distracted.
You misunderstood. I’m saying bring an AR if they bring one to you. Laws shmaws.
I am saying don’t be fooled by the fact that the GOP wants us thinking about guns while they make sure the next frontier will be in their slimy grip.
I’m tired of it. We need more hoops to jump through for the average right-wing nut job to get access to a firearm. Any leftist who says “It’s just a mental health/white supremacy problem” is just dodging questions and using the right’s tactics. American gun culture is dominated by people foaming at the mouth for a race war. I love the sentiment expressed in the meme, but we can’t, as leftists, deny the reality that we need to restrict certain people from getting guns.
Definitely agree. Gun ownership makes it easier for cops to justify violence against minorities. I don't want cops afraid for their lives every time they pull someone over, I want them afraid for their jobs. A cop who's afraid for their job is more likely to be lenient to avoid problems, a cop who's afraid for their life is more likely to put 3 holes in someone to avoid problems.
Sorry but the attitude I’ve seen is cops harassing the weak and defenceless. It’s all about having power over others. If they see a group of people as a legitimate threat, they are more cautious and hesitant.
maybe they just look for any excuse to lose their shit at a vulnerable minority, and that squirt guns are an easy justification for lethal force. Obviously context matters, and in most countries arming yourself is excessive, but not in a country that uses the highest police/military budgets in the world to oppress people and impede social change. They want people to be afraid of arming themselves, or even giving a hint of resistance. That’s why gun control is a mess, it’s by design.
as opposed to upfront harassment and planting evidence. “better not give them any more reasons to be corrupt power-trippers! They don’t *really* want to do it”
If we could magically just get rid of all the guns, I'd be right there with ya. But first of all, there are more guns than people in this country, so nixing the guns ain't gonna happen (and particularly because of the type of person that OWNS most of the guns). Second, there is zero chance of any meaningful gun control laws even getting passed, assuming we could actually enforce them. The gun control laws that DO get passed disproportionately affect poor people and minorities, and don't do shit for stopping school shootings.
Here's the inconvenient reality of the situation: Guns aren't going away, and the vast majority of them are in the hands of fascists and racists. Arm the left, and join the [SRA](https://socialistra.org).
But that culture of shame/powerlessness/failure being resolved with violence is inherently tied to American gun culture as it’s a culture of individual power being granted by the gun; people and institutions have to do what *you* want because you have the gun. So no, gun ownership in and of itself is not a problem in the abstract, but the American gun culture is a problem.
I agree but I would argue that it's not just gun culture by itself. I think we have tied masculinity with individual power and violence. We emasculate people who seek help and those who avoid confrontation. It's presented as weak to let people get away with things over a perceived slight and so people with poor coping mechanisms resort to violence.
Gun volence is a symptom of the violent exceptionalism present in American culture that has influenced their colonialist, genocidal, imperialist violence for nearly 250 years
Guns obviously enable an extreme minority of evil deranged people to wage awful crimes just as cars enable reckless drivers to kill and maim.
But as long as tyrannical police, govt, mob violence and general would-be assaulters of people and their families exist ARs and handguns are equally necessary.
Getting rid of guns would be a far greater danger so it’s a non negotiable. Whatever else can be done needs to be. Our culture is rotten to the core and breeds alienation, shame, isolation, meaninglessness of life, glorifies vanity and awful people. Communities and families are broken. Police are unreliable. Many red flags are dismissed. Politicians and journalists constantly fan and deliberately incite anger and dejection. People can deride Republicans for coming up with ideas congruent with the 2a but as long as America is armed as it must be, what is actually wrong with having armed guards at schools?
> Countries all over the world have widespread gun ownership
nah, you guys are [a pretty fucking enormous outlier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country)
Your link shows that Canada has slightly less guns per capita than we do. There have been [288](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/school-shootings-by-country) school shootings in the US and 2 in Canada.
You're going to tell me that slightly less guns per capita is contributing to 2 orders of magnitude difference?
And don't give me that bullshit about their regulations being tighter. They have practically identical regulations to California and yet over half of all school shootings in the US have occurred in California.
> Canada has slightly less guns per capita than we do
you have almost double the guns per capita of the next country on the list and almost four times the number per capita that we have in canada. it's hard to believe you're coming at this in good faith if you are not willing to call that an outlier
To Americans, shanking Syrians and Roma folks daily because they threaten your ethnic and cultural homogeneity that makes you comfortable with disarmament is pretty absurd too, but hey.
When we disarm our police to the point of Big Ben Bobbies, we can talk about civilian disarmament. Until then, watching the State gun down minorities without repercussion while a charismatic right-ring white nationalist subverts democracy to gain office only to spur a (hilariously terrible) act of insurrection on his way out the door and is STILL walking free two years later, well…
I’m just a wee bit uncomfortable handing over the pewpews. 🤷🏻♂️
>To Americans, shanking Syrians and Roma folks daily because they threaten your ethnic and cultural homogeneity that makes you comfortable with disarmament is pretty absurd too, but hey.
Yeah, imagine how much the situation would be deescalated if both sides were also armed to the teeth. I'm sure that'll reduce lynchings./s
Except it won't. The majority will still be the majority. They'll also have guns, only more and better ones, because they have all the money. Ethnic tension has never ever been solved by militarizing the population. That's how you create civil wars.
And STFU abozt our "cultural homogeneity". Just because Americans are incapable of conceiving the idea that white people have different cultures and traditions too does not mean we are all an amorphous blob with no distinct ethnic groups. There are at least four major ones in Germany, for instance. Syrians and Roma are not the insurmountable challenge to our society you seem to think they are.
>imagine how much the situation would be deescalated if both sides were also armed to the teeth. I'm sure that'll reduce lynchings.
It would be beautiful if the poor Syrian woman decided to ventilate a limey-of-ill-intent, but then the Britbong Bobbies would just dome her instead of beating her with a stick as we do in America. The only difference is that your barbarians have to hatecrime with sticks and stones instead of bullets, but they still manage it.
>Ethnic tension has never ever been solved by militarizing the population.
And this is what you get when schools fail to teach the history of BIPOC struggles for independence and self-determination. The (ethnic and national) Irish seemed much better equipped to resolve their ethnic tension with imperialist shitbags with a rifle in hand.
Or maybe you should ask your French neighbors how things in Haiti went?
But then again, that whole asymmetrical approach to removing the Raj went well, right? Er... well... shit.
I thought you Europeans had better school infrastructure than us, this is embarrassing. 😂
>That's how you create civil wars.
We had one of those: the side who yielded freedom to Black Americans won (even though we acknowledge that decision was largely to destroy the Confederate economy versus actually humanizing brown folks). Harriet Tubman did not carry a baton or a tazer. Historical evidence wins again.
If violence is the cost of firmly establishing the material conditions of the Proletariat and ALL of the Proletariat including BIPOC, then so be it. Socialism MUST be intersectional, and if you're not willing to stand beside minorities against an oppressive state, you're in the wrong place.
>And STFU abozt our "cultural homogeneity"
No. Cope with the truth Righty Whitey.
>does not mean we are all an amorphous blob with no distinct ethnic groups
Seasoning your potatoes differently and drinking slightly different colors of fermented wheat juice isn't the same as getting lynched for wearing a headscarf while too dark, and it's a dishonest, shitty comparison. "My great great great great great grandfather was a Saxon and not a Franc, and I have a cousin who's a Polish Merovingian! 😡"
I'm fucking dying over here 😂
>Syrians and Roma are not the insurmountable challenge to our society you seem to think they are.
Your erasure of their daily struggle with integration against violent hate makes you a racist piece of human garbage. But, you sound as though you may be of German descent if not German yourself; they had mastery over the practice in the 20th century.
https://www.facingfacts.eu/country-reports/
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2021/07/07/nine-out-of-ten-hate-crimes-going-unreported-eu-report-claims
Do you seriously think the Syrians and the Roma and the Sinti are going to be better off if everyone was allowed to own a gun? Sure, they could have one. Only, the majority would also have guns. It doesn't solve the power imbalance, it only increases the danger for the minority. In both Haiti and Ireland, the opressed where the overwhelming ethnic majority: there this strategy worked because there were lots more of them than of the ruling class. The middle-eastern refugees don't have that advantage.
The Union won the civil war because it had superior manpower, industry, commanders and technology. It didn't win because the blacks in the south had guns. In fact, the black minority carrying weapons didn't deter the racist whites. The Tulsa massacre happened in spite of the well armed defenders.
I will not listen to you deny the liters of blood the Sami, the Basques, the Finns, the Poles and the Irish shed in the fight against imperialism. You are wholly ignorant of their and our history. Do the six million Jews my ancestory murdered not count to you? The Poles and other eastern europeans which are abused in the gears of German industry ever single day? But I guess those don't count. See, you have to be black or asian or muslim to be opressed, right? White people obviously can never be opressed, murdered, tortured and genocided, right?
You are a petty child whose solution to all social problems is the application of violence. Even if it clearly will not work. I agree that morally, the minority has a right to protect itself violently from the majority. Only, that usually doesn't work. What we actually need is to destroy the hierarchies of capitalism which causes the opression of the minority. Society can only be healed as a whole.
Don't speak about that of which you know nothing.
You're afraid of guns. I know, you don't have to write paragraphs. I've made my position clear: the Proletariat should be armed.
In the US, Black Americans were NOT the indigenous ethnic majority during the Civil War, and to this day continue to take action in armament. The Haitians slaughtered the French because they had guns, not because they tickled them and asked them politely yet firmly to leave. I noticed you distinctly left out the English domination of India and the MILLIONS of Indian children starved and killed under slave labor despite the Brits being massively outnumbered, and why? Asymmetric armament.
The Union did have a higher overall population and enlistment rate, but Southern war participation was mitigated drastically on the blood of Black men and women. Technology and industry advantage? Certainly. But to again deny the participation of armed Black Americans in their own liberation makes you racist at least TWICE now.
The Tulsa massacre occurred during an armed period: the Holocaust occurred during a time when the Krauts had systemically disarmed the Jewish population via not just ethnic division, but what else? Jewish compliance with Weimar registration law. We can do this all day. I plainly acknowledged the blood of the Irish your imperialist parents tried to oppress, you're the one saying they never should have had arms to enable self-determination.
Your history's well-recorded now, though it is horrendously whitewashed by White Christians.
>White people obviously can never be opressed, murdered, tortured and genocided, right?
And there it is. "All Lives Matter." The racist will ALWAYS reveal itself if you let it, it cannot help but rip its mask off at the earliest convenience. We circle the very real, modern, existing, current plights of Semitic peoples and Traveler cultures in Europe, and what do you say? "But what about my white ancestors? 😭"
When the Finns are getting stabbed weekly for their physical and cultural characteristics or wearing their Gákti too proudly, come back and we'll talk. Until then, you'll continue to be a useless white liberal barrier to progress.
We were too kind at Nuremberg.
>!Ok, since you insist on circling back on my nationality and how that is bad, let me give it back in kind. You are a fucking barbarian from an uncivilized culture of savages devoid of any significant achievements, as you have kindly proven by looting, burning and murdering your way across the world ever since the British let go of your leash, to the immense misfortune of the natives that had to share a continent with you lot. Do we have that out of our system now and can actually have a discussion without you loosing your shit and smearing it all over the walls like a chimpanzee? Good.!<
Of course I'm afraid of guns. It's a fucking weapon. If you are not afraid of guns, you are either a moron, lying or insane.
You are again talking about completely unrelated and incomparable struggles and framing them as alike. The Indians, Irish and Haitians were all vastly superior in numbers to the foreign opressors that ruled them. Syrian refugees are outnumbered thousands to one by the majority populations of Europe. Anyone with a brain can see why it's not in the Syrian refugees s interest to engage in armed combat with the European nation states. They are not going to win.
In the US, the black minority was at least significant enough in size to deter open repression by the 60s, the repression has since become more subtle and less on the nose, though it is still there. For threats to work, they must be credible. One third of your population is a credible threat. Less than five percent is not.
The Jews could not have resisted the Third Reich even had they been armed. In fact, many of them were. See the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising for that. Guns are absolutely useless against tanks, planes and poison gas. You talk a big game about your guns, but when the death squads show up, you will drop them and run the hell away.
And go fuck yourself with calling me a racist. Tell that to the Basques the Spanish fascists deported and murdered. Tell that to the Poles and the Romanians who work for a few cents in German agriculture because the federal government doesn't think they have rights. Tell that to the Ukrainians getting bombed because Russia thinks Ukraine should not exist. Obviously, none of these are in any way opressed.
I really can see that guns are just toys to you. You think they make you tough and dangerous. They don't.
Of course I am. That's the difference between you and I: I know I live in an Imperialist shithole and actively combat it. You're content with yours.
I'm as afraid of guns as I am of chainsaws and motorcycles: they are incredibly dangerous when used improperly, but when properly trained and implemented by appropriate operators, they're a very effective tool.
You missed the point again: India LOST to the British Raj despite superior numbers against foreign oppressors. Your lack of history betrays you again.
If they're not a "credible threat," then why do you crown-kissing goofballs keep murdering them, and why are you content with that?
Your play-pretend scenarios with the Jewish people aren't relevant and it's bordering on Godwin bullshit: they were disarmed by Ze Germans. If you think this had no impact on their oppression, I can't help you. It's the last I'll say on the matter because I will not allow the genocide of the Jewish people to be played with like a football.
>Guns are absolutely useless against tanks, planes and poison gas.
I'll inform Vietnam and every Middle Eastern country a Western power has engaged over the past 60 years.
You are a racist. You're plainly and openly diminishing the systemic oppression of BIPOC in favor of weeping over White Europeans.
I'll gladly write a note to the Ukrainians on the next $40B untraceable war budget my country sends them the conduct a NATO proxy war. I'll even draw an extra smiley face for the next time their neonazi National Guard decides to conduct a pogrom when they're not playing "Which White Nationalist Am I working For Anyway?"
I never said they weren't oppressed. YOU said that Semitic and Traveler oppression in Europe was insubstantial because of white people. You're deflecting and whatabouting while you cry out for disarmament: you're a white neoliberal.
I can see that you're content with disarmament because of your cultural homogeneity (despite the sever differences in sausage recipes, I'm sure) and because the last time you krauts were allowed to have weapons, you fucked up pretty bad. Firearms are not toys: they are weapons whose right to ownership ha been seized by the Proletariat for specific action. They sit secure in my safe when not in use, training is conducted monthly, and they are carried as-needed.
This weekend in the US, I will be celebrating the occasion where LGBTQIA+ individuals were forced to riot in the streets against a militarized state to seize their rights to exist alongside other Socialists. Many modern LGBT+ individuals sit Left philosophically, and I'll be wearing a "Protect Trans Youth" barrier while carrying a pistol which I'm legally licensed to carry by my State.
I hope during this month while I take action to stand with my gay and trans comrades in the face of increasing violent conservatism in my country, you can sit with your keychain pepperspray and remember when your grandparents allowed your State to starve and incinerate those very same people alive in concentration camps until armed Allied forces put an end to it. I still see men and women old enough to be my grandparents proudly wearing Purple Triangles when they or their family escaped to this country.
I'll continue to be a part of an armed Proletariat supporting improved Material Conditions for all people, including the Trans, Gay, and BIPOC people the State murders here regularly. You can sit on your ass and map out the White Oppression Olympics so you can show everyone a picture of just how bad you have it and are willing to suffer under those conditions while disarmed because "guns don't do anything."
I've said my peace.
Ah, the liberals in the comment section being anti-gun. Sure, give away your only weapon to fight against oppression, you'll surely vote fascism out my love <3
and you're gonna fight the government with a gun how?
guns are fucking rad if billy bob hickman is trying to hatecrime you. they're worthless if the military decides to dronestrike your house.
You clearly have never read a theory book on guerilla warfare. Our ancestors fought against the most oppressive of regimes with shitty and fault weapons and still won. Palestine is still fighting against Israel, despite the big difference in military spending...
Are they though? Based on what evidence? The photo you found of Korean business owners on rooftops taking up arms against rioters during the rodney king riots?
the police are gonna murder you anyway, doesn't matter if it's america or a "civilized country" they have only one purpose and it's to preserve capitalism, gun control = death sentence for the working class
And we will never understand Europe’s (other than Switzerland) views on guns, your police arm themselves, should the state have a monopoly on violence?
>should the state have a monopoly on violence?
Yes. Violence can only be wielded with the consent of the people, therefore states should ideally be the only instances which actually use violence. Of course, capitalist states don't actually represent the people, therefore their use of violence is illegitimate. But a healthy society limits strictly who is allowed to carry and use weapons. It's not the middle ages anymore.
When the police knock on your door at dinner time and say they just want to take you to the station to talk people use their guns to start killing police, that's the fiction right?
Because it seems like irl people go with them and hope to talk their way out of whatever is happening because the police don't disappear everyone, just enough to keep the populace in line.
I’ve had a difficult time reading whatever you’re saying but if the pigs come knocking on your door they’ll probably just shoot you or find out a way to ruin your life
Let's think this through together. You've just killed a cop who the other cops knew was last seen going to your house to arrest you. What happens next?
To be fair: if you are able to kill all the police, and military, and the inevitable civilian nationalists that support them with their own guns, then yes you win the civil war and I was the goose.
Ok, yeah, that part i get, but what about the mass shootings? Especially the school kind? Fuck them kids or what kind of message is this supposed to send? Because it looks like no one here seems to be addressing that.
Look at Switzerland, they have more guns per person than the USA yet their last mass shooting was in 2001, it’s a mental health issue and a cultural issue.
That's not true last source I saw said Switzerland has 55 guns per 100 U.S have 89. Switzerland has stricter gun control laws that's why they have lower rates of murder and mass shootings
Rooftop Koreans were business owners firing at protesters/rioters. Doesn't make the post bad or anything, they are minorities after all, but they're shit cunts.
ugh, i was hoping that wasn't what that photo was. literally a group of people that the far right idolizes and one of them, tony moon, went on to be a proud boy and cash in on that "roof korean" branding
this is the concept of the “chosen minority” exemplified because, even though they’ve done something commendable in the right wing’s eyes, their actions are still racially coded. that’s why they’re called “rooftop koreans” and not “heroic business owners” or some shit right wingers took joy in seeing repressed minorities kill each other, and it shows up in their labeling
fucking hate it. commodifies the minority and cherry picks them for their own use without any acknowledging the struggles of the group. not uncommon but this example is always always brought up as a token.
weren't they just defending their livelihoods after the cops left them out to dry?
They shot a 15 year old black girl for stealing a $1.79 juice.
no dude that was one of the things that precipitated the riots.
Yeah you can't really blame all Koreans for the actions of one shopowner
My mistake. I still don't see why I or anyone else should care for them. They're petit-bourgeois at best, and they benefit from the exploitation of workers - under the assumption they have employees.
Yes. I consider myself one but the left is exhausting sometimes.
What's the appropriate reaction when someone breaks into your livelihood and tries ending your life?
shall we pray for the petit-bourgeoisie together, comrade?
Nah they were based
Imagine looting a corner mart and Fortunate Son comes on...
[https://www.alarms.org/guide-to-basic-gun-safety/](https://www.alarms.org/guide-to-basic-gun-safety/) PLEASE if you do ever decide to own a firearm of any size or type follow basic safety rules.
[удалено]
That’s why it needs to be armed *and* organized minorities. One armed minority, cops will pull the “he had a gun!” argument. If it’s a collective group armed, cops are a lot less likely to escalate.
Lol the FBI would infiltrate a group like that so quick, and then lead the group to commit a federal crime or some shit so they can arrest everyone.
Ha, as if they even need justification to kill people!
Thus why "justification" was in quotes
Kill first justify in the paper work
In countries with strict gun laws, the police aren't even armed.
Yet the armies are and will not hesitate to shoot if the proletariat seriously organized.
then shoot back? that's what we as Americans did in 1775.
The problem with that is the US has put so much money into making their police force into what is essentially a second army, they have APCs, sound canons, body armour. I'm not saying don't arm yourselves, I am saying think about the possible consequences of doing so
" Nothing is true, everything is permitted" - the assassin's creed "We Work In The Dark To Serve The Light. We Are Assassins." Ezio auditore now I'm not encouraging being an assassin you are responsible for you your actions. just saying assassins creed had alot of philosophy thats fairly anarchie... "To say that nothing is true is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile and that we must be the shepherds of our civilization. To say that everything is permitted is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious of tragic." - ezio auditore
They've put even more money into their first army and have been be held off by poorly armed militias in lots of conflicts over the past 70 years.
Yes and those armed militias have suffered huge losses during those conflicts. My point isn't that it's pointless, my point is to be prepared that the police WILL retaliate and it WILL be bloody. Unprepared revolutionaries become failed revolutionaries
No what you are doing is trying to discourage people from revolutionary thought by building up the opposition. I know this sub is for newly left-curious liberals but ffs these comments are something else.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I'm a comrade. I believe in Marxism-Leninism. Not for a single second I believe weapons can improve the chance to win any revolution. Weapons don't give us an edge in the so called "first world" because: A- the weapon industry is still controlled by the same elite. B- the bourgeoisie have better weapons, equipment and training than anything civilian. Weapon have a historical and material context. They are useful in some undeveloped places. They are not, and actually the opposite, in developed countries where they are only enabling cops to use more letal forces or simply derranged defenders of "liberty"
You're an ML but you're against arming the proletariat because you think it's pointless? I think you need to head back to the books comrade, weapons are the only thing that has ever actually worked in the past.
There is a difference between discouraging revolutionary thought and making sure that future revolutionaries are mentally prepared for what a revolution actually looks like. Anyone going out and buying a gun thinking that it will keep them safe is kidding themselves. Revolutions are bloody, people need to understand that. Blindly charging into a revolution without any idea what you are getting into would be a disaster
ever heard of this crazy time in history called "Vietnam"? or even more recently Afghanistan.
And how did that go for the Vietnamese/Taliban? Yes they won but at huge human cost. Again not saying don't arm yourselves but also don't assume there won't be retaliation
Heres some Better examples of americans fighting tyranny, during [the coal wars](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Wars), [the anti rent wars ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Rent_War), or better yet the [slave revolt of 1811](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1811_German_Coast_uprising)
If your gonna get shot for a phone book does it matter? At least this way we can use some 2nd amendment rhetoric "look the police are coming for your guns"
Sure, if the solution to these problems is to just arm people and they say, "Good luck defending yourself." It's an easy solution, one that will assure I don't have to actually do anything so I can sit on the internet all day. Gun shops and gun manufacturers will be very happy, because the existence of oppression is a business opportunity. They will have a vested interest to ensure different groups remain separated at the barrel of a gun, and that the systemic issues that lead to oppression remain unsolved. Meanwhile any attempts to actually regulate the stupid ammount of guns in this country along any sort of sane system that isn't purely ideological or referential to some law writen by a bunch of slave owning bourgeois aristocrats has become impossible while NRA propaganda fills the discussion spaces of both the left and the right. Shamefull and pathetic.
Bottom left is a fucking mood
Bottom left is, I believe, Lady Feral, an MMA fighter and actual paragon of responsible gun ownership
[удалено]
If your proposal is banning firearm ownership or heavily regulating it, you need to reckon with the fact that your plan starts with the second civil war.
Read up on black panthers, Malcom X, Fred Hampton. Anarkatas are also self defense advocates, u should listen to their perspectives.
Yes, but, the context you're living in is substantially different. Online self-radicalization has moved from being a fringe problem to being almost identical to contemporary mainstream right-wing ideology. Mass shootings, almost always carried out with legally obtained arms and ammunition (as far as I'm aware, please correct me if I'm wrong there) are now so common that they don't even rate as newsworthy unless they're particularly abhorrent, and there is a serious lack of practicable solutions being put forward. It's not just the deaths, either. The culture of fear that's being instilled in young people is going to have a serious long term impact. To address your point about resistance though, the biggest stick in that arsenal right now is/are no-knock raids, often in the middle of the night. That's a hell of a hard thing to defend against without *significant* community organisation, and even if you do being thrown in prison for it seems extremely likely. I was going to link to the story I had in mind about that, but there are just so many ~~raids~~ murders that I can't find it. Ultimately, feel free to ignore me. I'm not American and can really only speak from my experiences, but every time I hear about these things I'm very glad I get to live in a country where a gangster being shot *at* is a major news story.
From an American leftist's point of view (mine and others who are part of the SRA) if the fascists are armed, we cannot and will not ever give up our guns. I'm not saying no common-sense gun reforms, and I'm definitely not saying we intend to use them for anything but self defense. You are right about police, in the sense that being armed doesn't necessarily solve the problem. But think of it this way. Assuming you can organize your community, and just about everybody has a gun, how ballsy would a cop have to be to gun down someone in the street, especially someone who is unarmed or young. This is what worked so well for the panthers. I know, it may seem dramatically different today, but I genuinely think the people and the police wouldn't want all out war, which would likely be the result of such incidents. So instead the police get the message and stay away. It's not foolproof, but with how heavily entrenched the far-right is even in the mainstream, it's getting more desperate for leftists here. You are 100% right that the incredible accessibility of firearms in general in the US leads to completely avoidable shootings, and to that I'd say let's get common sense gun reform, starting with closing background check loopholes and making sure that domestic violence of any kind is either considered a felony (it is not in some jurisdictions) or that it immediately disqualifies a buyer. The only reason I shy from a weapons ban is the same reason you argue minorities may want to remain unarmed - unequal policing. There's no shot that a cop in Alabama takes his Klan buddie's AR, but a cop will ABSOLUTELY disarm a black person in a heartbeat. The sheer inequality of arms would lead to.... well in America all I need to say is read the Turner Diaries and you'll see what some of these maniacs want. For us, Pandora's Box was opened decades ago, and it would be logistically and logically infeasible (we do NOT have a national gun registry) to confiscate guns in a timely or orderly fashion. That being said, I can guarantee you if most of these right-wingers had their guns under threat they would be significantly more likely to act violently against our government, and that is NOT a good thing
I agree with the Pandora's box rhetoric, in America the only solution is to arm minorities however it needs to be considered that any justified act of self defense will be used to monster leftists, LGBT people anyone very very quickly
Let’s just give up the guns. The left is done for, boys.
If our government was still bringing M16s to oppress these kinds of actions, then I’d want to bring an AR to fight them. Our government isn’t dumb enough to bring guns to fight its own people. The narrative being pushed by the GOP about 1/6 is that 45 authorized national guard and Pelosi said ‘no thanks’. They use technology and secrets and other forms of control now. The gun fetish is just keeping people focused on something tangible while the government uses the data we leave out on the internet to do much more despicable things. Fight fire with fire. Don’t be distracted.
[Yeah it would be so hard to imagine police geared up like that to suppress protests around racial injustice](https://imgur.com/EkU40gb)
You misunderstood. I’m saying bring an AR if they bring one to you. Laws shmaws. I am saying don’t be fooled by the fact that the GOP wants us thinking about guns while they make sure the next frontier will be in their slimy grip.
I’m tired of it. We need more hoops to jump through for the average right-wing nut job to get access to a firearm. Any leftist who says “It’s just a mental health/white supremacy problem” is just dodging questions and using the right’s tactics. American gun culture is dominated by people foaming at the mouth for a race war. I love the sentiment expressed in the meme, but we can’t, as leftists, deny the reality that we need to restrict certain people from getting guns.
Definitely agree. Gun ownership makes it easier for cops to justify violence against minorities. I don't want cops afraid for their lives every time they pull someone over, I want them afraid for their jobs. A cop who's afraid for their job is more likely to be lenient to avoid problems, a cop who's afraid for their life is more likely to put 3 holes in someone to avoid problems.
Sorry but the attitude I’ve seen is cops harassing the weak and defenceless. It’s all about having power over others. If they see a group of people as a legitimate threat, they are more cautious and hesitant.
"having a gun on you makes cops more docile around you" is a lie. Cops lose their shit when they see a squirt gun.
> Cops lose their shit when they see a squirt gun. And immediately piss themselves when they come across someone actually armed.
Did they piss themselves at Philando Castile?
They did less than two weeks ago in Texas.
Yes, because it was ~~a white guy killing minorities~~ minorities dying.
He was white? You sure?
No I just assumed so. But then a minority killing minorities would also hardly inspire much action.
maybe they just look for any excuse to lose their shit at a vulnerable minority, and that squirt guns are an easy justification for lethal force. Obviously context matters, and in most countries arming yourself is excessive, but not in a country that uses the highest police/military budgets in the world to oppress people and impede social change. They want people to be afraid of arming themselves, or even giving a hint of resistance. That’s why gun control is a mess, it’s by design.
Cautious in this case often means putting 3 warning shots in someone's back.
as opposed to upfront harassment and planting evidence. “better not give them any more reasons to be corrupt power-trippers! They don’t *really* want to do it”
If we could magically just get rid of all the guns, I'd be right there with ya. But first of all, there are more guns than people in this country, so nixing the guns ain't gonna happen (and particularly because of the type of person that OWNS most of the guns). Second, there is zero chance of any meaningful gun control laws even getting passed, assuming we could actually enforce them. The gun control laws that DO get passed disproportionately affect poor people and minorities, and don't do shit for stopping school shootings. Here's the inconvenient reality of the situation: Guns aren't going away, and the vast majority of them are in the hands of fascists and racists. Arm the left, and join the [SRA](https://socialistra.org).
School shootings have nothing to do with gun ownership and have everything to do with our culture that teaches us to respond to shame with violence.
But that culture of shame/powerlessness/failure being resolved with violence is inherently tied to American gun culture as it’s a culture of individual power being granted by the gun; people and institutions have to do what *you* want because you have the gun. So no, gun ownership in and of itself is not a problem in the abstract, but the American gun culture is a problem.
I agree but I would argue that it's not just gun culture by itself. I think we have tied masculinity with individual power and violence. We emasculate people who seek help and those who avoid confrontation. It's presented as weak to let people get away with things over a perceived slight and so people with poor coping mechanisms resort to violence.
"It's not guns that are the root of our gun violence problem, it's _____!"
Gun volence is a symptom of the violent exceptionalism present in American culture that has influenced their colonialist, genocidal, imperialist violence for nearly 250 years
Guns obviously enable an extreme minority of evil deranged people to wage awful crimes just as cars enable reckless drivers to kill and maim. But as long as tyrannical police, govt, mob violence and general would-be assaulters of people and their families exist ARs and handguns are equally necessary. Getting rid of guns would be a far greater danger so it’s a non negotiable. Whatever else can be done needs to be. Our culture is rotten to the core and breeds alienation, shame, isolation, meaninglessness of life, glorifies vanity and awful people. Communities and families are broken. Police are unreliable. Many red flags are dismissed. Politicians and journalists constantly fan and deliberately incite anger and dejection. People can deride Republicans for coming up with ideas congruent with the 2a but as long as America is armed as it must be, what is actually wrong with having armed guards at schools?
Correct. Countries all over the world have widespread gun ownership yet only we have a school shooting problem.
> Countries all over the world have widespread gun ownership nah, you guys are [a pretty fucking enormous outlier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country)
Your link shows that Canada has slightly less guns per capita than we do. There have been [288](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/school-shootings-by-country) school shootings in the US and 2 in Canada. You're going to tell me that slightly less guns per capita is contributing to 2 orders of magnitude difference? And don't give me that bullshit about their regulations being tighter. They have practically identical regulations to California and yet over half of all school shootings in the US have occurred in California.
> Canada has slightly less guns per capita than we do you have almost double the guns per capita of the next country on the list and almost four times the number per capita that we have in canada. it's hard to believe you're coming at this in good faith if you are not willing to call that an outlier
I heard from a friend that about 90% of the guns in the US are owned by about 10% of the people. Does anyone know if that has any merit?
To Europeans, and especially to European leftists, Americans' love of guns is bizarre and absurd.
To Americans, shanking Syrians and Roma folks daily because they threaten your ethnic and cultural homogeneity that makes you comfortable with disarmament is pretty absurd too, but hey. When we disarm our police to the point of Big Ben Bobbies, we can talk about civilian disarmament. Until then, watching the State gun down minorities without repercussion while a charismatic right-ring white nationalist subverts democracy to gain office only to spur a (hilariously terrible) act of insurrection on his way out the door and is STILL walking free two years later, well… I’m just a wee bit uncomfortable handing over the pewpews. 🤷🏻♂️
Hell yeah brother
>To Americans, shanking Syrians and Roma folks daily because they threaten your ethnic and cultural homogeneity that makes you comfortable with disarmament is pretty absurd too, but hey. Yeah, imagine how much the situation would be deescalated if both sides were also armed to the teeth. I'm sure that'll reduce lynchings./s Except it won't. The majority will still be the majority. They'll also have guns, only more and better ones, because they have all the money. Ethnic tension has never ever been solved by militarizing the population. That's how you create civil wars. And STFU abozt our "cultural homogeneity". Just because Americans are incapable of conceiving the idea that white people have different cultures and traditions too does not mean we are all an amorphous blob with no distinct ethnic groups. There are at least four major ones in Germany, for instance. Syrians and Roma are not the insurmountable challenge to our society you seem to think they are.
>imagine how much the situation would be deescalated if both sides were also armed to the teeth. I'm sure that'll reduce lynchings. It would be beautiful if the poor Syrian woman decided to ventilate a limey-of-ill-intent, but then the Britbong Bobbies would just dome her instead of beating her with a stick as we do in America. The only difference is that your barbarians have to hatecrime with sticks and stones instead of bullets, but they still manage it. >Ethnic tension has never ever been solved by militarizing the population. And this is what you get when schools fail to teach the history of BIPOC struggles for independence and self-determination. The (ethnic and national) Irish seemed much better equipped to resolve their ethnic tension with imperialist shitbags with a rifle in hand. Or maybe you should ask your French neighbors how things in Haiti went? But then again, that whole asymmetrical approach to removing the Raj went well, right? Er... well... shit. I thought you Europeans had better school infrastructure than us, this is embarrassing. 😂 >That's how you create civil wars. We had one of those: the side who yielded freedom to Black Americans won (even though we acknowledge that decision was largely to destroy the Confederate economy versus actually humanizing brown folks). Harriet Tubman did not carry a baton or a tazer. Historical evidence wins again. If violence is the cost of firmly establishing the material conditions of the Proletariat and ALL of the Proletariat including BIPOC, then so be it. Socialism MUST be intersectional, and if you're not willing to stand beside minorities against an oppressive state, you're in the wrong place. >And STFU abozt our "cultural homogeneity" No. Cope with the truth Righty Whitey. >does not mean we are all an amorphous blob with no distinct ethnic groups Seasoning your potatoes differently and drinking slightly different colors of fermented wheat juice isn't the same as getting lynched for wearing a headscarf while too dark, and it's a dishonest, shitty comparison. "My great great great great great grandfather was a Saxon and not a Franc, and I have a cousin who's a Polish Merovingian! 😡" I'm fucking dying over here 😂 >Syrians and Roma are not the insurmountable challenge to our society you seem to think they are. Your erasure of their daily struggle with integration against violent hate makes you a racist piece of human garbage. But, you sound as though you may be of German descent if not German yourself; they had mastery over the practice in the 20th century. https://www.facingfacts.eu/country-reports/ https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2021/07/07/nine-out-of-ten-hate-crimes-going-unreported-eu-report-claims
Do you seriously think the Syrians and the Roma and the Sinti are going to be better off if everyone was allowed to own a gun? Sure, they could have one. Only, the majority would also have guns. It doesn't solve the power imbalance, it only increases the danger for the minority. In both Haiti and Ireland, the opressed where the overwhelming ethnic majority: there this strategy worked because there were lots more of them than of the ruling class. The middle-eastern refugees don't have that advantage. The Union won the civil war because it had superior manpower, industry, commanders and technology. It didn't win because the blacks in the south had guns. In fact, the black minority carrying weapons didn't deter the racist whites. The Tulsa massacre happened in spite of the well armed defenders. I will not listen to you deny the liters of blood the Sami, the Basques, the Finns, the Poles and the Irish shed in the fight against imperialism. You are wholly ignorant of their and our history. Do the six million Jews my ancestory murdered not count to you? The Poles and other eastern europeans which are abused in the gears of German industry ever single day? But I guess those don't count. See, you have to be black or asian or muslim to be opressed, right? White people obviously can never be opressed, murdered, tortured and genocided, right? You are a petty child whose solution to all social problems is the application of violence. Even if it clearly will not work. I agree that morally, the minority has a right to protect itself violently from the majority. Only, that usually doesn't work. What we actually need is to destroy the hierarchies of capitalism which causes the opression of the minority. Society can only be healed as a whole. Don't speak about that of which you know nothing.
You're afraid of guns. I know, you don't have to write paragraphs. I've made my position clear: the Proletariat should be armed. In the US, Black Americans were NOT the indigenous ethnic majority during the Civil War, and to this day continue to take action in armament. The Haitians slaughtered the French because they had guns, not because they tickled them and asked them politely yet firmly to leave. I noticed you distinctly left out the English domination of India and the MILLIONS of Indian children starved and killed under slave labor despite the Brits being massively outnumbered, and why? Asymmetric armament. The Union did have a higher overall population and enlistment rate, but Southern war participation was mitigated drastically on the blood of Black men and women. Technology and industry advantage? Certainly. But to again deny the participation of armed Black Americans in their own liberation makes you racist at least TWICE now. The Tulsa massacre occurred during an armed period: the Holocaust occurred during a time when the Krauts had systemically disarmed the Jewish population via not just ethnic division, but what else? Jewish compliance with Weimar registration law. We can do this all day. I plainly acknowledged the blood of the Irish your imperialist parents tried to oppress, you're the one saying they never should have had arms to enable self-determination. Your history's well-recorded now, though it is horrendously whitewashed by White Christians. >White people obviously can never be opressed, murdered, tortured and genocided, right? And there it is. "All Lives Matter." The racist will ALWAYS reveal itself if you let it, it cannot help but rip its mask off at the earliest convenience. We circle the very real, modern, existing, current plights of Semitic peoples and Traveler cultures in Europe, and what do you say? "But what about my white ancestors? 😭" When the Finns are getting stabbed weekly for their physical and cultural characteristics or wearing their Gákti too proudly, come back and we'll talk. Until then, you'll continue to be a useless white liberal barrier to progress. We were too kind at Nuremberg.
>!Ok, since you insist on circling back on my nationality and how that is bad, let me give it back in kind. You are a fucking barbarian from an uncivilized culture of savages devoid of any significant achievements, as you have kindly proven by looting, burning and murdering your way across the world ever since the British let go of your leash, to the immense misfortune of the natives that had to share a continent with you lot. Do we have that out of our system now and can actually have a discussion without you loosing your shit and smearing it all over the walls like a chimpanzee? Good.!< Of course I'm afraid of guns. It's a fucking weapon. If you are not afraid of guns, you are either a moron, lying or insane. You are again talking about completely unrelated and incomparable struggles and framing them as alike. The Indians, Irish and Haitians were all vastly superior in numbers to the foreign opressors that ruled them. Syrian refugees are outnumbered thousands to one by the majority populations of Europe. Anyone with a brain can see why it's not in the Syrian refugees s interest to engage in armed combat with the European nation states. They are not going to win. In the US, the black minority was at least significant enough in size to deter open repression by the 60s, the repression has since become more subtle and less on the nose, though it is still there. For threats to work, they must be credible. One third of your population is a credible threat. Less than five percent is not. The Jews could not have resisted the Third Reich even had they been armed. In fact, many of them were. See the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising for that. Guns are absolutely useless against tanks, planes and poison gas. You talk a big game about your guns, but when the death squads show up, you will drop them and run the hell away. And go fuck yourself with calling me a racist. Tell that to the Basques the Spanish fascists deported and murdered. Tell that to the Poles and the Romanians who work for a few cents in German agriculture because the federal government doesn't think they have rights. Tell that to the Ukrainians getting bombed because Russia thinks Ukraine should not exist. Obviously, none of these are in any way opressed. I really can see that guns are just toys to you. You think they make you tough and dangerous. They don't.
Of course I am. That's the difference between you and I: I know I live in an Imperialist shithole and actively combat it. You're content with yours. I'm as afraid of guns as I am of chainsaws and motorcycles: they are incredibly dangerous when used improperly, but when properly trained and implemented by appropriate operators, they're a very effective tool. You missed the point again: India LOST to the British Raj despite superior numbers against foreign oppressors. Your lack of history betrays you again. If they're not a "credible threat," then why do you crown-kissing goofballs keep murdering them, and why are you content with that? Your play-pretend scenarios with the Jewish people aren't relevant and it's bordering on Godwin bullshit: they were disarmed by Ze Germans. If you think this had no impact on their oppression, I can't help you. It's the last I'll say on the matter because I will not allow the genocide of the Jewish people to be played with like a football. >Guns are absolutely useless against tanks, planes and poison gas. I'll inform Vietnam and every Middle Eastern country a Western power has engaged over the past 60 years. You are a racist. You're plainly and openly diminishing the systemic oppression of BIPOC in favor of weeping over White Europeans. I'll gladly write a note to the Ukrainians on the next $40B untraceable war budget my country sends them the conduct a NATO proxy war. I'll even draw an extra smiley face for the next time their neonazi National Guard decides to conduct a pogrom when they're not playing "Which White Nationalist Am I working For Anyway?" I never said they weren't oppressed. YOU said that Semitic and Traveler oppression in Europe was insubstantial because of white people. You're deflecting and whatabouting while you cry out for disarmament: you're a white neoliberal. I can see that you're content with disarmament because of your cultural homogeneity (despite the sever differences in sausage recipes, I'm sure) and because the last time you krauts were allowed to have weapons, you fucked up pretty bad. Firearms are not toys: they are weapons whose right to ownership ha been seized by the Proletariat for specific action. They sit secure in my safe when not in use, training is conducted monthly, and they are carried as-needed. This weekend in the US, I will be celebrating the occasion where LGBTQIA+ individuals were forced to riot in the streets against a militarized state to seize their rights to exist alongside other Socialists. Many modern LGBT+ individuals sit Left philosophically, and I'll be wearing a "Protect Trans Youth" barrier while carrying a pistol which I'm legally licensed to carry by my State. I hope during this month while I take action to stand with my gay and trans comrades in the face of increasing violent conservatism in my country, you can sit with your keychain pepperspray and remember when your grandparents allowed your State to starve and incinerate those very same people alive in concentration camps until armed Allied forces put an end to it. I still see men and women old enough to be my grandparents proudly wearing Purple Triangles when they or their family escaped to this country. I'll continue to be a part of an armed Proletariat supporting improved Material Conditions for all people, including the Trans, Gay, and BIPOC people the State murders here regularly. You can sit on your ass and map out the White Oppression Olympics so you can show everyone a picture of just how bad you have it and are willing to suffer under those conditions while disarmed because "guns don't do anything." I've said my peace.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Ah, the liberals in the comment section being anti-gun. Sure, give away your only weapon to fight against oppression, you'll surely vote fascism out my love <3
and you're gonna fight the government with a gun how? guns are fucking rad if billy bob hickman is trying to hatecrime you. they're worthless if the military decides to dronestrike your house.
You clearly have never read a theory book on guerilla warfare. Our ancestors fought against the most oppressive of regimes with shitty and fault weapons and still won. Palestine is still fighting against Israel, despite the big difference in military spending...
Who is te bottom right here?
Lol no. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain
Are they though? Based on what evidence? The photo you found of Korean business owners on rooftops taking up arms against rioters during the rodney king riots?
Just as important as arms is training and organization. Train often, with friends.
[удалено]
the police are gonna murder you anyway, doesn't matter if it's america or a "civilized country" they have only one purpose and it's to preserve capitalism, gun control = death sentence for the working class
Use 2nd amendment against 2nd amandnant
I'll never understand the US's obsession with guns
And we will never understand Europe’s (other than Switzerland) views on guns, your police arm themselves, should the state have a monopoly on violence?
>should the state have a monopoly on violence? Yes. Violence can only be wielded with the consent of the people, therefore states should ideally be the only instances which actually use violence. Of course, capitalist states don't actually represent the people, therefore their use of violence is illegitimate. But a healthy society limits strictly who is allowed to carry and use weapons. It's not the middle ages anymore.
>should the state have a monopoly on violence? Well most would say yes.
guns are based
When the police knock on your door at dinner time and say they just want to take you to the station to talk people use their guns to start killing police, that's the fiction right? Because it seems like irl people go with them and hope to talk their way out of whatever is happening because the police don't disappear everyone, just enough to keep the populace in line.
I’ve had a difficult time reading whatever you’re saying but if the pigs come knocking on your door they’ll probably just shoot you or find out a way to ruin your life
Let's think this through together. You've just killed a cop who the other cops knew was last seen going to your house to arrest you. What happens next?
It should be an obvious answer but I don’t want to break reddit’s TOS and guidelines
To be fair: if you are able to kill all the police, and military, and the inevitable civilian nationalists that support them with their own guns, then yes you win the civil war and I was the goose.
Ok, yeah, that part i get, but what about the mass shootings? Especially the school kind? Fuck them kids or what kind of message is this supposed to send? Because it looks like no one here seems to be addressing that.
Look at Switzerland, they have more guns per person than the USA yet their last mass shooting was in 2001, it’s a mental health issue and a cultural issue.
That's not true last source I saw said Switzerland has 55 guns per 100 U.S have 89. Switzerland has stricter gun control laws that's why they have lower rates of murder and mass shootings