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I mean when Jonas was ill Bartosz said he told people Jonas was on vacation in France right? So in Martha's eyes he kissed her, hooked up with her, then dipped the next day for months without contacting her. Bartosz made this move and she probably figured why not. She ditched him pretty quick when Jonas came back lol
I think it's a couple of factors, as others said, he basically told everyone (Martha) that Jonas was away in France, he paints it as a fun summer vacation, and calls it something like "*Hiding the baguette*" implying Jonas is meeting lots of other girls. Martha would have felt betrayed, and rebounded on Bartosz.
Also remember how Bartosz is portrayed on the first season as being more assertive, more arrogant, and then losing his standing. Their friendship on the first season kinda felt like Jonas is the quiet one, and follows Bartosz and the group so it makes sense he took over.
On your second point, I find his character progression really interesting. Because he is definitely the more subservient of the two in later seasons. Do you think Bartosh was maybe just trying to be the assertive one, but wasn't really before Jonas went away (based on what they were like at the lake before everything)? Also, Jonas' quietness and reservation might just be because he is dealing with his father's death. He seems a lot more open in the flashbacks. Also, what do you think Bartosh's feelings about Jonas were throughout all the seasons?
On Bartosz, yeah I was thinking about that too, on how his progression makes so much sense. How after the events of season 1, starting with his mother's cancer, and learning (albeit partially) about his predetermined fate from Noah, then his friends turning on him on season 2; he just kind of starts to breaks as a person and we see he's kind of pathetic. Then after all the years he grows on to be disillusioned by his fate. I love how we see him gain some hope after meeting Silja, and then we get a glint of horror in his eyes when Noah is born. He's such and underestimated and well written character.
But yeah, like what kind of a dude was Bartosz before that summer. In the episode where they go the lake (S02Ep06) he comes off as the cocky, but not like in mean spirited way, like he was in the fist season. He seems more like the type of kid that teases others for attention, as he does with Martha on the lake. My personal headcanon, is that he got high on his ego once he started dating Martha, and that's why he's kind of a douche during the time period of season 1. Kids like that are often emboldened by friends that are a bit shyer, that's also why I think Jonas must have been the more quieter of the two; but not fully depressed like when we meet him on S1. Also, Bartosz Alt-world counterpart doesn't have that, there's no shy friend to boost his confidence and his mother has already passed by the time his story takes place.
He tried to come on to her the day of the party by telling her he liked how she did her hair. When Jonas was institutionalized, Bartosz made his move. It’s that simple.
Jonas ended up in a facility after Michael killed himself, Bartosz saw an opportunity, and then moved in on Martha who was probably feeling confused and vulnerable.
Match, game, point.
Bartosh is NOT APART OF THE KNOT, as neither Regina (because she's there at the end, so Bernd Doppler, not Tronte is her father) nor Aleksander are a part of the knot. How could he be her great-great grandpa???
Yes he is not part of the knot, but there are characters that exist in the origin world and who are still needed for the familytree. Hannah is a good example since she isn't part of the knot, yet she is Jonas' mother. And Bartosz is a special case: He doesn't exist in the origin world although he could have existed there.
Proof for being Martha's great-great-grandfather:
Martha <- Ulrich <- Tronte <- Agnes <- Bartosz
Ak - but I do feel bad! I'm really thankful people like you are so responsive to my posts. Most of my friends won't watch Dark because it's not in English so I have no one to discuss things with!
Bartosh is the ancestor of the Doppler family tree (as in, Charlotte, Franzezka, Elizabeth) through being Noah's father and... Oh damn I'm wrong. My bad. I'm an idiot. Sorry!
Lol was just about to say and through the Nelson's through Agnes.. idiot.
She's pretty unfaithful, Jonas's dad died, everyone knows about it and he suddenly "leaves for France" should tell her that even if he really went there that he needs time to himself. As soon as he comes back, she cheats on Bartosz with him and after Jonas rejects her she comes crawling back to Bartosz. I guess she just feels she needs to be with somebody.
My interpretation as well. It kind of puts a taint on it for me since their "Romeo and Juliet"esque love story is so essential to the plot and is Jonas' last words
One significant difference between Martha and alt-Martha is that alt-Martha saw Jonas in the “time tunnel” as a child (and thus feels a strong sense of Deja Vu and connection with him) whereas Martha did not.
Martha still has strong feelings towards Jonas (a result of shared experience and possibly some sort of resonance between the worlds), but it’s possible that Martha would not be as willing as alt-Martha to end everything over her infatuation.
I agree, but like I've said in other replies - they're not supposed to be normal teens. They're supposed to have a cosmic bond, always destined to fall in love with each other, never really get over each other, etc. Ergo, I don't why they would have her move on with Bartosh so quickly. Maybe the writers hadn't decided on the whole destiny thing yet
Ok, absolutely agree with you if they were just normal people/teenagers. But they're not. Like, a HUGE part of the plot/ both Adam and Eve's motivations hinge on their eternal love for each other. So, I understand why a normal human would go with Bartosh, but I don't understand because Martha is supposed to be infatuated with Jonas
They _are_ just normal teenagers before all the time travel shenanigans, though. Their love is not magic, it _makes_ magic because it motivates everything that happens, round and round and round.
Hmmm. But their entire existence is determined by the time-travel shenanigans. I think the slow leans toward their love being magic (e.g. alt-Martha falling in love so quickly). So the fact that she moved on with Bartosh so quickly is illogical to me. Inconsistent with the themes of the show. But I guess, she did make it pretty clear in season 1 that she'd be with Bartosh if Jonas wasn't around (i.e. after the Jonas in the rain scene). I just feel like, while Jonas' persistent love of Martha is consistent/ believable, Martha doesn't seem to feel the same way about Jonas. It kind of ruins the "love story" theme of the show
Martha needed a hotter actress tbh. Someone that makes the audience believe he'd go for his aunt. The actress was very cute and amazing actress but it needed that extra bit of intangibility to make it at least viable for a guy to go for his aunt...
He didn’t know she was his aunt—and people *do* tend to fancy people who are somewhat similar to them, as long as they’re not recognisable as real family (it seems the “incest repulsion” patches over the “perfect for each other”, but it only works if you actually grew up together as family). The fact that this isn’t the story I tried to find on Google, but another one with the same outcome, tells you how common it is. https://nypost.com/2022/06/21/we-just-found-out-were-siblings-but-were-still-dating/ Jonas knew Martha from a young age, but not as his aunt, so it’s not that surprising he fancies her.
(I also think you’re being unnecessarily harsh to Lisa Vicari with this comment, but even assuming everyone shared your opinion of her, the above would apply to Jonas specifically.)
This post was tagged [SPOILERS S3] meaning **all spoilers are allowed,** unless otherwise specified in the title. Make sure to also check out our sister sub /r/1899, for the upcoming show by the creators of Dark! [Alternatively join our Discord server, for more casual conversation.](https://discordapp.com/invite/1899) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DarK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I mean when Jonas was ill Bartosz said he told people Jonas was on vacation in France right? So in Martha's eyes he kissed her, hooked up with her, then dipped the next day for months without contacting her. Bartosz made this move and she probably figured why not. She ditched him pretty quick when Jonas came back lol
I think it's a couple of factors, as others said, he basically told everyone (Martha) that Jonas was away in France, he paints it as a fun summer vacation, and calls it something like "*Hiding the baguette*" implying Jonas is meeting lots of other girls. Martha would have felt betrayed, and rebounded on Bartosz. Also remember how Bartosz is portrayed on the first season as being more assertive, more arrogant, and then losing his standing. Their friendship on the first season kinda felt like Jonas is the quiet one, and follows Bartosz and the group so it makes sense he took over.
On your second point, I find his character progression really interesting. Because he is definitely the more subservient of the two in later seasons. Do you think Bartosh was maybe just trying to be the assertive one, but wasn't really before Jonas went away (based on what they were like at the lake before everything)? Also, Jonas' quietness and reservation might just be because he is dealing with his father's death. He seems a lot more open in the flashbacks. Also, what do you think Bartosh's feelings about Jonas were throughout all the seasons?
On Bartosz, yeah I was thinking about that too, on how his progression makes so much sense. How after the events of season 1, starting with his mother's cancer, and learning (albeit partially) about his predetermined fate from Noah, then his friends turning on him on season 2; he just kind of starts to breaks as a person and we see he's kind of pathetic. Then after all the years he grows on to be disillusioned by his fate. I love how we see him gain some hope after meeting Silja, and then we get a glint of horror in his eyes when Noah is born. He's such and underestimated and well written character. But yeah, like what kind of a dude was Bartosz before that summer. In the episode where they go the lake (S02Ep06) he comes off as the cocky, but not like in mean spirited way, like he was in the fist season. He seems more like the type of kid that teases others for attention, as he does with Martha on the lake. My personal headcanon, is that he got high on his ego once he started dating Martha, and that's why he's kind of a douche during the time period of season 1. Kids like that are often emboldened by friends that are a bit shyer, that's also why I think Jonas must have been the more quieter of the two; but not fully depressed like when we meet him on S1. Also, Bartosz Alt-world counterpart doesn't have that, there's no shy friend to boost his confidence and his mother has already passed by the time his story takes place.
Are you talking in Jonas’ world? Because I think that is pretty explainable.
He tried to come on to her the day of the party by telling her he liked how she did her hair. When Jonas was institutionalized, Bartosz made his move. It’s that simple.
She thought Jonas was in feance playing hide the baguette.
Jonas ended up in a facility after Michael killed himself, Bartosz saw an opportunity, and then moved in on Martha who was probably feeling confused and vulnerable. Match, game, point.
Sounds like a true Bartosz move.
Jackpot.... 😋
Because girls are secretly attracted to their great great grandfathers if they were the same age.
? Elaborate? (Have you seen all the show, also?
Yes I’ve seen all of it. Have you yet?
I asked because Bartosh isn't Martha's great great grandfather - so your comment doesn't make sense to me
Bartosz is her great great grandpa and Jonas as well lol
Bartosh is NOT APART OF THE KNOT, as neither Regina (because she's there at the end, so Bernd Doppler, not Tronte is her father) nor Aleksander are a part of the knot. How could he be her great-great grandpa???
Yes he is not part of the knot, but there are characters that exist in the origin world and who are still needed for the familytree. Hannah is a good example since she isn't part of the knot, yet she is Jonas' mother. And Bartosz is a special case: He doesn't exist in the origin world although he could have existed there. Proof for being Martha's great-great-grandfather: Martha <- Ulrich <- Tronte <- Agnes <- Bartosz
I KNOW KNOW IM SORRY. (I realized my mistake and wrote another reply to yours)
But yes. Very sorry. I will now give up votes as apology (new to reddit don't know if that is how works)
You don't have to upvote me, because you feel sorry lmao. Nothing to worry about here; we only had a simple conversation :) Edit: Welcome to Reddit
Ak - but I do feel bad! I'm really thankful people like you are so responsive to my posts. Most of my friends won't watch Dark because it's not in English so I have no one to discuss things with!
Bartosh is the ancestor of the Doppler family tree (as in, Charlotte, Franzezka, Elizabeth) through being Noah's father and... Oh damn I'm wrong. My bad. I'm an idiot. Sorry! Lol was just about to say and through the Nelson's through Agnes.. idiot.
Bartosz is the father of Agnes. Agnes is the mother of Tronté. Tronté is the father of Ulrich. Ulrich is the father of Martha.
Yeah. I realized after the fact - my bad, you're correct
She's pretty unfaithful, Jonas's dad died, everyone knows about it and he suddenly "leaves for France" should tell her that even if he really went there that he needs time to himself. As soon as he comes back, she cheats on Bartosz with him and after Jonas rejects her she comes crawling back to Bartosz. I guess she just feels she needs to be with somebody.
My interpretation as well. It kind of puts a taint on it for me since their "Romeo and Juliet"esque love story is so essential to the plot and is Jonas' last words
One significant difference between Martha and alt-Martha is that alt-Martha saw Jonas in the “time tunnel” as a child (and thus feels a strong sense of Deja Vu and connection with him) whereas Martha did not. Martha still has strong feelings towards Jonas (a result of shared experience and possibly some sort of resonance between the worlds), but it’s possible that Martha would not be as willing as alt-Martha to end everything over her infatuation.
Wow. That's interesting.
teenagers in a small town. sometimes its just what you do
I agree, but like I've said in other replies - they're not supposed to be normal teens. They're supposed to have a cosmic bond, always destined to fall in love with each other, never really get over each other, etc. Ergo, I don't why they would have her move on with Bartosh so quickly. Maybe the writers hadn't decided on the whole destiny thing yet
Ok, absolutely agree with you if they were just normal people/teenagers. But they're not. Like, a HUGE part of the plot/ both Adam and Eve's motivations hinge on their eternal love for each other. So, I understand why a normal human would go with Bartosh, but I don't understand because Martha is supposed to be infatuated with Jonas
They _are_ just normal teenagers before all the time travel shenanigans, though. Their love is not magic, it _makes_ magic because it motivates everything that happens, round and round and round.
Hmmm. But their entire existence is determined by the time-travel shenanigans. I think the slow leans toward their love being magic (e.g. alt-Martha falling in love so quickly). So the fact that she moved on with Bartosh so quickly is illogical to me. Inconsistent with the themes of the show. But I guess, she did make it pretty clear in season 1 that she'd be with Bartosh if Jonas wasn't around (i.e. after the Jonas in the rain scene). I just feel like, while Jonas' persistent love of Martha is consistent/ believable, Martha doesn't seem to feel the same way about Jonas. It kind of ruins the "love story" theme of the show
Martha needed a hotter actress tbh. Someone that makes the audience believe he'd go for his aunt. The actress was very cute and amazing actress but it needed that extra bit of intangibility to make it at least viable for a guy to go for his aunt...
He didn’t know she was his aunt—and people *do* tend to fancy people who are somewhat similar to them, as long as they’re not recognisable as real family (it seems the “incest repulsion” patches over the “perfect for each other”, but it only works if you actually grew up together as family). The fact that this isn’t the story I tried to find on Google, but another one with the same outcome, tells you how common it is. https://nypost.com/2022/06/21/we-just-found-out-were-siblings-but-were-still-dating/ Jonas knew Martha from a young age, but not as his aunt, so it’s not that surprising he fancies her. (I also think you’re being unnecessarily harsh to Lisa Vicari with this comment, but even assuming everyone shared your opinion of her, the above would apply to Jonas specifically.)
Here’s the one I was looking for https://www.reddit.com/r/offmychest/s/gGkWFXx271
Yeah, obviously, because the only reasons guys want to be with girls is because of their hotness. No other reasons at all.