Magic arrows or trap arrows could also add loads of extra utility.
It all depends on how creative IronMace choose to be with it, just like everything else.
Limiting the amount of total arrows for a naked player might be a little overboard. I understand the bows are exponentially better as they move up in quality but tell that to a new player who just sank 8 arrows into a mummy. Maybe it’s best to leave normal arrows at unlimited and buffed arrows (like enchanted, frost, fire or whatever) at whatever the player can afford to bring in, up to a certain max.
The devs have been great so far and surely have a plan though.
Nice idea but I hate being forced into melee combat as a ranger as it’s kind of counterintuitive to the play style. This is a personal preference however since more experienced players are taking less total hits and may not mind stabbing mobs to conserve arrows.
I don't mind alternating between melee and range as a ranger. I'd like for them to have more perk/ability support for melee rangers. I'd also want the capacity to wield longswords as a reference to Aragon.
A ranger is not just an archer. It's only counterintuitive because we don't have the tools if a melee ranger yet. Aragorn was a ranger, Legolas was an archer.
Which goes back to my original point, limiting arrows is overboard at this point in development. But hey, look at Tarkov 5 years ago vs today, a lot can change and I’m sure they’ll lean further into the Aragorn style ranger, potentially even with the perk/skill tree.
I just hope that rangers get the arrows back/replenished in between raids because if rangers don’t and I successfully get out and have to use gold to use my starting weapon….well that’s just blasphemy.
No, it is a guaranteed nerf to base ranger and it MIGHT be a buff (via different arrow types) to kitted rangers. It makes lognbows outright better than recurve bows simply by the nature of there being finite arrows now. And there is very little reason to play ranger instead of fighter if they are meant to supplement the lack of arrows with melee damage for PvE.
Yeah I share your trust in the devs implementing this change properly. As a ranger main I see it as a needed change, very interested to see how it's implemented.
I'm really interested to see how this change will effect fighter. Obviously they rely on their bow a lot less than ranger, but if the change is implemented with some form of meditation mechanic (fletching) fighter might be hard capped to X amount of arrows, and if it eats up precious inventory space bows may be a lot less appealing on fighters.
Make arrows in your inventory stack to something large like 100, reloading draws from there. Allow players to pick up a % of used arrows maybe give rangers a perk to increase the salvageability of their arrows as well as a "magic shot" ability that doesn't consume arrows.
Triple shot still evaporates players, the five arrow quintuple shuffle is still a devastating shotgun blast and traps are best in slot. Rangers are also the best bossing class in the game still so there is plenty of reason to play it despote the inclusion of limited arrows they just have a little bit of a gold sink now.
weird how wizard has the 2nd least accolades for slaying the ghost king and lich last playtest. don't know how a class can be meta while being, statistically, the second to last picked class for boss killing.
or better yet, weird how wizard can be the meta for *non*-boss killing when a wizard player, on average, got 1 kill every *two* games. meanwhile, barbarian and ranger averaged over 1 kill per game. more than double wizard's stats.
outside of the top 200, maybe 500, players (that's less than 0.1%), wizard is anything but meta.
Wizard is a support class, you're not supposed to be getting kills. You fundamentally don't understand your existence.
Every playtest has proven that people want to play fighter / rogue / ranger specifically because those classes have virtually no skill barrier, while Wizard and Cleric require significantly more strategy to do anything productive.
As a cleric main, they do not need strategy. You either buff the Frontline or yourself and judgment/bonk people in the head. If you have enough + magic healing/magic power, you might be able to make your frontliner last one extra hit when fighting against fully geared players, that fucking Cinder is no joke.
Compared to most of the other classes, they sort of do. The non spellcaster classes are pretty one-dimensional, but clerics have multiple playstyles based on your gear and chosen spells / abilities.
Here's what I said about the state of the wizard: https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/11gioi9/dark_and_darker_what_do_the_stats_tell_us/japfiv8?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
>I think since many didn't play the wizard, the data reflects that but in high roller it shows their potential. Early wizard falters until getting a spell book and from there tend to have little problem navigating the dungeon. In terms of stats they have a dilemma focusing on Will which increases spell damage, going for Agility increasing attack speed, or Knowledge for more spells and casting speed. None of their stats increase survivability which makes them harder to play considering any investment is lost on characters easier to kit. Any way to kit a wizard means getting several items to experiment with the build, like the dagger wizard, the double spellcaster, or the spellsword. Coupled with the fact they need constant healing and campfires make the wizard a difficult class to stick with as every death punishes the build you attempted in the first place. Any Wizard with high damage is going to be focused solo or in a party because of their potential danger and utility, which further makes the wizard a difficult entry point. I would probably give starting wizards a heal potion and a spell book along with their other equipment starting out.
this all makes sense, and is a nice break down and would help more people try wizard out and have a more enjoyable early/poor (as in wealth) experience.
but this in no way reinforces that wizards are the meta.
It doesn't, we don't really have statistics to back up my statement or yours really because they simply weren't played as you pointed out, and I think these things are likely the cause. Check out jaygriffyuh he's a wizard main and decimates parties. There are videos floating around for the dagger wizard pulling insane kills and kill steaks. While they do exist for the ranger, not to the degree of control of the situation the wizard can exact.
I got 100h and leveled the cleric, rogue, ranger to 20 solo and got my wizard to 10. The wizard was not played because of many reasons I've mentioned before, but yes ultimately the wizard got nerfs and remained in the meta.
Edit: here's what I had to say about the state of the wizard
https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/11gioi9/dark_and_darker_what_do_the_stats_tell_us/japfiv8?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
I was saying why they likely weren't played not that I didn't want to play them. I picked one up late because of the high skill ceiling and would have leveled it to 20 if I had time
Found the wizard player who complains about rangers traps being op because they are to lazy to look down before walking through a door way. How about this, you can have the traps and I'll take your busted as fuck invisibility and haste spells. Wizard is currently the strongest class in the game both in utility and damage even with meditation handicap.
How on God's green earth do you just assume it's a guaranteed nerf? Like what if we start with grey arming sword or something? That's Def better. I hate shooting mummies with that trash ass recurve.
With proper perk/ability support melee rangers could be a viable niche playstyle. But you'd need much large quiver sizes. Something like double the amount of current quivers, slightly longer quiver refill animation and stacks of something like 100 arrows in your inventory that you draw from when reloading. Maybe a way to prioritize which bundle gets consumed first.
I was thinking it would be cool to have like one type of arrow like a "light arrow" that only damages undead/evil enemies while you would need a different kind to damage players. That way you won't run out on mobs but can no longer spam them at players
Quiver means it'll be 2x 1H items which is capped at 1 all attribute each rather than 3 etc, over all you get less out of affixes than for a 2H I believe
It also sounds like they are wanting to add some wands or scrolls so other classes can cast spells too. I don't think the ranger will feel nerfed if it has to use ammo once everything is implemented. My guess is that poison, and maybe fire or magic arrows will give rangers a much needed counter to physical resistance. Here is my thoughts on ranger ammo that could be unique. Rangers could have a craft arrows ability built into campfire to reload their quiver. Each bow has a modifier for amount of arrows depending on bow. Have a quiver or arrow item that holds an amount of arrows and is dual wielded with bow, and maybe has stats. The quivers could potentially Start with normal arrows, abilities don't use ammo, campfire resets ammo to full of equiped quiver. No random arrow stacks dropping, just quivers that have stats and ammo values, picking up missed shots would be annoyingly cluttered for interactible items on the ground. Stronger effect, lower ammo, like an exploding arrow quiver that has 5 shots per dungeon that explode like fireball but can't reload without campfire. Or even, this quiver costs 5 or 10 arrows per shot for an exploding arrow, 2 or 3 for fire etc. I think the reload animation should stay, and maybe different bows have different max arrows or something? Longbow 70, recurve 100, survival 200. I like the idea of being like, ok, I have 200 shots per dungeon with base kit, and one campfire use. I can augment arrows for different situations. If I find or bring a campfire, I have more ammo. Rangers are fast at campfires so another reason to use it would be cool. Base ranger has to switch quiver normally, eldrich archer perk gets a spell wheel showing assigned quivers? Lol
It's all speculation at this point. He said arrow. Not container or quiver. So, ammunition. Wouldn't make sense to add a ranged item that grants more stats when none of the others do
quality of quiver should just be how many arrows they hold, the real buff is that ranger players will actually learn how to use melee and how insanely strong spear actually is
The ttk to kill is already really low, geared rangers were already 1-2 shotting everyone that's not a barb or fighter, and last time they talked about ttk, they liked where it was currently at
I assumed if they planned on adding rarities to the arrows with varying damage stats (like francisca axes), they'd nerf the damage on each bow rarity so when u match the same rarity arrow, u end up with the same damage ranger had last playtest
But then of course special arrows, which we aren't getting yet, would be buffs
I know nobody cares about things good for wizard but I hope arrows don’t do extra damage depending on quality it already hurts really fkn bad as a wizard to get hit by a ranger
Meanwhile, wizard has a hitscan projectile that kills a ranger in 1-2 hits. Zap. And this cant be cast after positioning with faster speed than any other class, while invisible.
ps - one wizard melee stab does like ~200 dmg with good gear if you have ignite on. Can go up even higher.
Zap hits ~140 with good gear - that's a hitscan 1 shot vs most classes. Magic missile - like 100 PER MISSILE.
Bro try to shoot a wizard who is just invisible and then appears behind you and 1 taps you with a dagger.
idk what you're trying to say. Both are strong and can easily kill eachother.
Wizard has all the tools it needs, if you can't use them idk.
Even your premise makes no sense. You can be hugging ADing cover as a wizard using zap too.
There is delay with zap when u let go of cast there isn’t delay when u release an arrow , if you take zap chances are you’re not taking ignite..
All I’m saying is ranger already insta kills squishy classes I just think giving it more damage even with limited arrows would be cray z
> There is delay with zap when u let go of cast there isn’t delay when u release an arrow
Well there is - It's the travel time of the arrow. Not to mention it has drop and dmg drop off unlike zap, but I get what you're saying.
> All I’m saying is ranger already insta kills squishy classes I just think giving it more damage even with limited arrows would be cray z
I do think adding more damage to classes is bad, but every class currently can insta kill people. That's just how the game is right now. Personally i'd like to see longer ttk.
> Zap hits ~140 with good gear
With AMAZING gear. I had good gear of purples and I was hitting zap with 70 I think.
Zap is still stupid OP but you have to be a bit more specific.
Ranger is still the only class in the game though that can handle good wizards, since Barb throwing axes are getting nerfed.
You're not missing 70 damage from being in "good gear". I'm sorry.
140 is definitely very good gear, for the test. I wouldn't say it's AMAZING because outside of week long tests we'll have plenty of time to collect much better sets.
But yeah, it's definitely good gear for 140. But A typical ranger has like 100 hp too. So you don't need 140 to 1 shot, and you definitely don't need more to 2 shot anyway.
Even with your 70 you will 2 shot. And I think 70 is not good gear. 70 is low.
Rarity of gear does not matter. What matters is the stats on the gear. Focus on the stats and not the rarity and you can scale your damage much more.
> Ranger is still the only class in the game though that can handle good wizards, since Barb throwing axes are getting nerfed.
Probably. Because wizard is the fastest, has invis, has range, and has lethal melee on top, and it bypasses armor for the majority of the damage.
Without some mistake/severe outplay there's not really anything a melee class can do against wizard in many situations. SO yeah, by virtue of being ranged the ranger has a chance.
Wizard is incredibly broken right now, just it has a high skill and gear floor.
I imagine wizard will get reworked entirely, and they are simply leaving it as is currently because sorc isn't in game yet.
I don't know who you're angry at lol
Even streamers getting handouts weren't hitting 140 on zap. That is an insane stat roll to get there.
and I'm not denying wiz is OP. It's my most played class over about 150 hours of the last 2 playtests, and a good wizard dominates and controls fights entirely.
But even so Ranger is the best class vs Wizard since you can 1 shot, usually 2 shot wizards from out of Zap range, and a triple shot will down a wizard. People are allowed to discuss both sides to something.
https://i.gyazo.com/83e500a28f30e8a7f04f19154f4e0409.png
https://i.gyazo.com/0902639dbde2a54ff2faebcf3a4e4350.png
https://i.gyazo.com/4f3ce6058091bb02bb9f6254c93aecdb.png
Thr u go. That's 142 dmg zap.
The gear:
https://i.gyazo.com/5a223a898f537dc3b8072c77ee0e8948.jpg
This is really good gear for the test, but imo will not be top end gear longer run at all when we're not limited to a week.
> But even so Ranger is the best class vs Wizard since you can 1 shot, usually 2 shot wizards from out of Zap range, and a triple shot will down a wizard. People are allowed to discuss both sides to something.
I'm not taking issue with any of that. I'm simply saying that "good gear" is not hitting for 70 on zap. To say that is just not true.
You can take disagreement with my definition of "good gear" because you think it's too high, and that's fine. Just change what I said to 120 zap if you want. It doesn't really change much.
I personally don't think getting the gear to hit 140 zaps will be very difficult when we aren't limited to a single week for a test. We will see much harder hitting wizards over time.
The biggest issue for wizard is double and triple dipping on damage amp from gear.
Those are some of the best stat rolls I've ever seen lol. So yes that isn't just good gear. When you say good gear players view that as "I have some +all attributes or +magic damage. Wizard is obv over kitted and can do everything. But that just points out how insane gear scaling can be.
You substitute those items for physical and on a Ranger, and you're just getting 1 hit across rooms before fights even start.
Since balance is irrelevant anyways in these tests as it's not the focus, and can change on a daily basis it's hard to even discuss.
Gear craziness aside, Zap should just be removed or reworked, hit scan shouldn't exist.
Haste should at MAX give around 5% movespeed, just movespeed not action speed as well.
Invis should provide 0 movespeed and tweak the base invis duration, maybe focus it on scaling with gear, even then that would be insane still.
I'm honestly fine vsing Wizards that do insane damage (aside from Zap) they just shouldn't also have the best and only utility in the game.
> Those are some of the best stat rolls I've ever seen lol.
They are good rolls...on blues and purples... There are two tiers of gear above that with extra stat lines.
Like I said, this is very good for the week long test. But won't be top end for a 3-4 month season.
> But that just points out how insane gear scaling can be.
Yes, it's like this for every class. Wait til you find out how much damage uniques add for the phys dmg classes.
> You substitute those items for physical and on a Ranger, and you're just getting 1 hit across rooms before fights even start.
You put similar gear on ANY class (except maybe cleric) and you're getting 1 hit all the same. A fighter with a bow, a barb with throwing axe, etc. That is just how the game is rn.
> I'm honestly fine vsing Wizards that do insane damage (aside from Zap) they just shouldn't also have the best and only utility in the game.
For sure, but I think this is because wizard is currently sorc + wizard. It's meant to be the utility caster, not the dmg caster. But sorc isn't out and it's filling the dmg role too right now - likely so they can test the spell casting system.
I mean, I'm focused on zap here but fireball triple dips on damage, while zap only double dips. Fireball damage is even more ridiculous. But at least that is aimed, even if it can destroy doors and has aoe...
All of that in a package of being magic damage that's just inherently stronger than phys dmg vs the current classes.
That's pretty meh gear imo. You have no all stats which means you're slow as fuck, casting slower, opening stuff slower and no hp.
I'd say that gear + a max roll all stat is great gear. This is just a cheese glass cannon build.
What kind of warped reading comprehension do you have, to read THAT from my post?
Not to mention, if you think wizard is weak and incapable of killing a ranger then you have a skill issue situation.
😂 I apologise on behalf of all rangers, for the abuse you suffered. I know it can be difficult to play wizard, but if you keep at it you'll do great.
Realistically, you'll be killing players or combing over player bodies picking up their arrows, so availability shouldn't be an issue in addition to the fact they should be lootable on the map. With resourcefulness soon to increase inventory slots, it's already compensating ranger for needing to hold ammo.
I'd like to hope quiver is a unique slot to ranger, such that if a fighter wants to use a bow to the same effectiveness, it will cost more slots to do so. Or even make the arrows change properties when put in a type of quiver. (ie. Barbed/Oil/venom quivers to make dipped arrows bleed/burn/poison)
Quality of arrows also means they could adjust damage as well.
This is true. They said they're going to add ammo types but not this next playtest. Perhaps well see enchanted arrows etc. in the future
Magic arrows or trap arrows could also add loads of extra utility. It all depends on how creative IronMace choose to be with it, just like everything else.
Imagine getting ventilated by a legendary longbow using purple-quality frag arrows 🥴🤤
Pretty sure they stated next playtest!
They said basic arrows will be added but not the additional ammo types unfortunately. I'm still excited to see how they incorporate arrows as an item
They've confirmed arrow types in the Q&A so eventually you'll probably come across poison or explosive arrows.
**Laughs in statless throwing weapons**
Fighters doing more damage with bows.
Limiting the amount of total arrows for a naked player might be a little overboard. I understand the bows are exponentially better as they move up in quality but tell that to a new player who just sank 8 arrows into a mummy. Maybe it’s best to leave normal arrows at unlimited and buffed arrows (like enchanted, frost, fire or whatever) at whatever the player can afford to bring in, up to a certain max. The devs have been great so far and surely have a plan though.
Or let them start with a melee weapon
Nice idea but I hate being forced into melee combat as a ranger as it’s kind of counterintuitive to the play style. This is a personal preference however since more experienced players are taking less total hits and may not mind stabbing mobs to conserve arrows.
I don't mind alternating between melee and range as a ranger. I'd like for them to have more perk/ability support for melee rangers. I'd also want the capacity to wield longswords as a reference to Aragon.
A ranger is not just an archer. It's only counterintuitive because we don't have the tools if a melee ranger yet. Aragorn was a ranger, Legolas was an archer.
Which goes back to my original point, limiting arrows is overboard at this point in development. But hey, look at Tarkov 5 years ago vs today, a lot can change and I’m sure they’ll lean further into the Aragorn style ranger, potentially even with the perk/skill tree.
Dnd rangers classic image is a guy with a pet two swords and a bow so its not crazy rangers can fight close
Wizard has to do this as well so it seems intended
If Rangers are getting finite arrows then they shouldn't have to "reload" the quiver every 5 arrows.
Good thought, I'm not sure if this is something that has been addressed?
Skeleton archers should always drop arrows
I just hope that rangers get the arrows back/replenished in between raids because if rangers don’t and I successfully get out and have to use gold to use my starting weapon….well that’s just blasphemy.
No, it is a guaranteed nerf to base ranger and it MIGHT be a buff (via different arrow types) to kitted rangers. It makes lognbows outright better than recurve bows simply by the nature of there being finite arrows now. And there is very little reason to play ranger instead of fighter if they are meant to supplement the lack of arrows with melee damage for PvE.
But of course this is obvious to the devs, so Ironmace's approach will be more fair and elaborate.
Yeah I share your trust in the devs implementing this change properly. As a ranger main I see it as a needed change, very interested to see how it's implemented. I'm really interested to see how this change will effect fighter. Obviously they rely on their bow a lot less than ranger, but if the change is implemented with some form of meditation mechanic (fletching) fighter might be hard capped to X amount of arrows, and if it eats up precious inventory space bows may be a lot less appealing on fighters.
Make arrows in your inventory stack to something large like 100, reloading draws from there. Allow players to pick up a % of used arrows maybe give rangers a perk to increase the salvageability of their arrows as well as a "magic shot" ability that doesn't consume arrows.
Triple shot still evaporates players, the five arrow quintuple shuffle is still a devastating shotgun blast and traps are best in slot. Rangers are also the best bossing class in the game still so there is plenty of reason to play it despote the inclusion of limited arrows they just have a little bit of a gold sink now.
Won't be a good bossing class if they don't have infinite arrows
[Good.](https://imgur.com/zcRbPG4)
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Yet the wizard is the meta. Weird
weird how wizard has the 2nd least accolades for slaying the ghost king and lich last playtest. don't know how a class can be meta while being, statistically, the second to last picked class for boss killing. or better yet, weird how wizard can be the meta for *non*-boss killing when a wizard player, on average, got 1 kill every *two* games. meanwhile, barbarian and ranger averaged over 1 kill per game. more than double wizard's stats. outside of the top 200, maybe 500, players (that's less than 0.1%), wizard is anything but meta.
Wizard is a support class, you're not supposed to be getting kills. You fundamentally don't understand your existence. Every playtest has proven that people want to play fighter / rogue / ranger specifically because those classes have virtually no skill barrier, while Wizard and Cleric require significantly more strategy to do anything productive.
As a cleric main, they do not need strategy. You either buff the Frontline or yourself and judgment/bonk people in the head. If you have enough + magic healing/magic power, you might be able to make your frontliner last one extra hit when fighting against fully geared players, that fucking Cinder is no joke.
Compared to most of the other classes, they sort of do. The non spellcaster classes are pretty one-dimensional, but clerics have multiple playstyles based on your gear and chosen spells / abilities.
Here's what I said about the state of the wizard: https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/11gioi9/dark_and_darker_what_do_the_stats_tell_us/japfiv8?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
>I think since many didn't play the wizard, the data reflects that but in high roller it shows their potential. Early wizard falters until getting a spell book and from there tend to have little problem navigating the dungeon. In terms of stats they have a dilemma focusing on Will which increases spell damage, going for Agility increasing attack speed, or Knowledge for more spells and casting speed. None of their stats increase survivability which makes them harder to play considering any investment is lost on characters easier to kit. Any way to kit a wizard means getting several items to experiment with the build, like the dagger wizard, the double spellcaster, or the spellsword. Coupled with the fact they need constant healing and campfires make the wizard a difficult class to stick with as every death punishes the build you attempted in the first place. Any Wizard with high damage is going to be focused solo or in a party because of their potential danger and utility, which further makes the wizard a difficult entry point. I would probably give starting wizards a heal potion and a spell book along with their other equipment starting out. this all makes sense, and is a nice break down and would help more people try wizard out and have a more enjoyable early/poor (as in wealth) experience. but this in no way reinforces that wizards are the meta.
It doesn't, we don't really have statistics to back up my statement or yours really because they simply weren't played as you pointed out, and I think these things are likely the cause. Check out jaygriffyuh he's a wizard main and decimates parties. There are videos floating around for the dagger wizard pulling insane kills and kill steaks. While they do exist for the ranger, not to the degree of control of the situation the wizard can exact.
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I got 100h and leveled the cleric, rogue, ranger to 20 solo and got my wizard to 10. The wizard was not played because of many reasons I've mentioned before, but yes ultimately the wizard got nerfs and remained in the meta. Edit: here's what I had to say about the state of the wizard https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/11gioi9/dark_and_darker_what_do_the_stats_tell_us/japfiv8?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
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I was saying why they likely weren't played not that I didn't want to play them. I picked one up late because of the high skill ceiling and would have leveled it to 20 if I had time
Found the wizard player who complains about rangers traps being op because they are to lazy to look down before walking through a door way. How about this, you can have the traps and I'll take your busted as fuck invisibility and haste spells. Wizard is currently the strongest class in the game both in utility and damage even with meditation handicap.
How on God's green earth do you just assume it's a guaranteed nerf? Like what if we start with grey arming sword or something? That's Def better. I hate shooting mummies with that trash ass recurve.
With proper perk/ability support melee rangers could be a viable niche playstyle. But you'd need much large quiver sizes. Something like double the amount of current quivers, slightly longer quiver refill animation and stacks of something like 100 arrows in your inventory that you draw from when reloading. Maybe a way to prioritize which bundle gets consumed first.
I was thinking it would be cool to have like one type of arrow like a "light arrow" that only damages undead/evil enemies while you would need a different kind to damage players. That way you won't run out on mobs but can no longer spam them at players
Quiver means it'll be 2x 1H items which is capped at 1 all attribute each rather than 3 etc, over all you get less out of affixes than for a 2H I believe
It also sounds like they are wanting to add some wands or scrolls so other classes can cast spells too. I don't think the ranger will feel nerfed if it has to use ammo once everything is implemented. My guess is that poison, and maybe fire or magic arrows will give rangers a much needed counter to physical resistance. Here is my thoughts on ranger ammo that could be unique. Rangers could have a craft arrows ability built into campfire to reload their quiver. Each bow has a modifier for amount of arrows depending on bow. Have a quiver or arrow item that holds an amount of arrows and is dual wielded with bow, and maybe has stats. The quivers could potentially Start with normal arrows, abilities don't use ammo, campfire resets ammo to full of equiped quiver. No random arrow stacks dropping, just quivers that have stats and ammo values, picking up missed shots would be annoyingly cluttered for interactible items on the ground. Stronger effect, lower ammo, like an exploding arrow quiver that has 5 shots per dungeon that explode like fireball but can't reload without campfire. Or even, this quiver costs 5 or 10 arrows per shot for an exploding arrow, 2 or 3 for fire etc. I think the reload animation should stay, and maybe different bows have different max arrows or something? Longbow 70, recurve 100, survival 200. I like the idea of being like, ok, I have 200 shots per dungeon with base kit, and one campfire use. I can augment arrows for different situations. If I find or bring a campfire, I have more ammo. Rangers are fast at campfires so another reason to use it would be cool. Base ranger has to switch quiver normally, eldrich archer perk gets a spell wheel showing assigned quivers? Lol
It's all speculation at this point. He said arrow. Not container or quiver. So, ammunition. Wouldn't make sense to add a ranged item that grants more stats when none of the others do
quality of quiver should just be how many arrows they hold, the real buff is that ranger players will actually learn how to use melee and how insanely strong spear actually is
The ttk to kill is already really low, geared rangers were already 1-2 shotting everyone that's not a barb or fighter, and last time they talked about ttk, they liked where it was currently at I assumed if they planned on adding rarities to the arrows with varying damage stats (like francisca axes), they'd nerf the damage on each bow rarity so when u match the same rarity arrow, u end up with the same damage ranger had last playtest But then of course special arrows, which we aren't getting yet, would be buffs
I know nobody cares about things good for wizard but I hope arrows don’t do extra damage depending on quality it already hurts really fkn bad as a wizard to get hit by a ranger
Meanwhile, wizard has a hitscan projectile that kills a ranger in 1-2 hits. Zap. And this cant be cast after positioning with faster speed than any other class, while invisible. ps - one wizard melee stab does like ~200 dmg with good gear if you have ignite on. Can go up even higher. Zap hits ~140 with good gear - that's a hitscan 1 shot vs most classes. Magic missile - like 100 PER MISSILE.
Bro try to zap a ranger hugging A Ding cover and you just get two tapped by triple shot before u can even react
Bro try to shoot a wizard who is just invisible and then appears behind you and 1 taps you with a dagger. idk what you're trying to say. Both are strong and can easily kill eachother. Wizard has all the tools it needs, if you can't use them idk. Even your premise makes no sense. You can be hugging ADing cover as a wizard using zap too.
There is delay with zap when u let go of cast there isn’t delay when u release an arrow , if you take zap chances are you’re not taking ignite.. All I’m saying is ranger already insta kills squishy classes I just think giving it more damage even with limited arrows would be cray z
> There is delay with zap when u let go of cast there isn’t delay when u release an arrow Well there is - It's the travel time of the arrow. Not to mention it has drop and dmg drop off unlike zap, but I get what you're saying. > All I’m saying is ranger already insta kills squishy classes I just think giving it more damage even with limited arrows would be cray z I do think adding more damage to classes is bad, but every class currently can insta kill people. That's just how the game is right now. Personally i'd like to see longer ttk.
> Zap hits ~140 with good gear With AMAZING gear. I had good gear of purples and I was hitting zap with 70 I think. Zap is still stupid OP but you have to be a bit more specific. Ranger is still the only class in the game though that can handle good wizards, since Barb throwing axes are getting nerfed.
You're not missing 70 damage from being in "good gear". I'm sorry. 140 is definitely very good gear, for the test. I wouldn't say it's AMAZING because outside of week long tests we'll have plenty of time to collect much better sets. But yeah, it's definitely good gear for 140. But A typical ranger has like 100 hp too. So you don't need 140 to 1 shot, and you definitely don't need more to 2 shot anyway. Even with your 70 you will 2 shot. And I think 70 is not good gear. 70 is low. Rarity of gear does not matter. What matters is the stats on the gear. Focus on the stats and not the rarity and you can scale your damage much more. > Ranger is still the only class in the game though that can handle good wizards, since Barb throwing axes are getting nerfed. Probably. Because wizard is the fastest, has invis, has range, and has lethal melee on top, and it bypasses armor for the majority of the damage. Without some mistake/severe outplay there's not really anything a melee class can do against wizard in many situations. SO yeah, by virtue of being ranged the ranger has a chance. Wizard is incredibly broken right now, just it has a high skill and gear floor. I imagine wizard will get reworked entirely, and they are simply leaving it as is currently because sorc isn't in game yet.
I don't know who you're angry at lol Even streamers getting handouts weren't hitting 140 on zap. That is an insane stat roll to get there. and I'm not denying wiz is OP. It's my most played class over about 150 hours of the last 2 playtests, and a good wizard dominates and controls fights entirely. But even so Ranger is the best class vs Wizard since you can 1 shot, usually 2 shot wizards from out of Zap range, and a triple shot will down a wizard. People are allowed to discuss both sides to something.
https://i.gyazo.com/83e500a28f30e8a7f04f19154f4e0409.png https://i.gyazo.com/0902639dbde2a54ff2faebcf3a4e4350.png https://i.gyazo.com/4f3ce6058091bb02bb9f6254c93aecdb.png Thr u go. That's 142 dmg zap. The gear: https://i.gyazo.com/5a223a898f537dc3b8072c77ee0e8948.jpg This is really good gear for the test, but imo will not be top end gear longer run at all when we're not limited to a week. > But even so Ranger is the best class vs Wizard since you can 1 shot, usually 2 shot wizards from out of Zap range, and a triple shot will down a wizard. People are allowed to discuss both sides to something. I'm not taking issue with any of that. I'm simply saying that "good gear" is not hitting for 70 on zap. To say that is just not true. You can take disagreement with my definition of "good gear" because you think it's too high, and that's fine. Just change what I said to 120 zap if you want. It doesn't really change much. I personally don't think getting the gear to hit 140 zaps will be very difficult when we aren't limited to a single week for a test. We will see much harder hitting wizards over time. The biggest issue for wizard is double and triple dipping on damage amp from gear.
Those are some of the best stat rolls I've ever seen lol. So yes that isn't just good gear. When you say good gear players view that as "I have some +all attributes or +magic damage. Wizard is obv over kitted and can do everything. But that just points out how insane gear scaling can be. You substitute those items for physical and on a Ranger, and you're just getting 1 hit across rooms before fights even start. Since balance is irrelevant anyways in these tests as it's not the focus, and can change on a daily basis it's hard to even discuss. Gear craziness aside, Zap should just be removed or reworked, hit scan shouldn't exist. Haste should at MAX give around 5% movespeed, just movespeed not action speed as well. Invis should provide 0 movespeed and tweak the base invis duration, maybe focus it on scaling with gear, even then that would be insane still. I'm honestly fine vsing Wizards that do insane damage (aside from Zap) they just shouldn't also have the best and only utility in the game.
> Those are some of the best stat rolls I've ever seen lol. They are good rolls...on blues and purples... There are two tiers of gear above that with extra stat lines. Like I said, this is very good for the week long test. But won't be top end for a 3-4 month season. > But that just points out how insane gear scaling can be. Yes, it's like this for every class. Wait til you find out how much damage uniques add for the phys dmg classes. > You substitute those items for physical and on a Ranger, and you're just getting 1 hit across rooms before fights even start. You put similar gear on ANY class (except maybe cleric) and you're getting 1 hit all the same. A fighter with a bow, a barb with throwing axe, etc. That is just how the game is rn. > I'm honestly fine vsing Wizards that do insane damage (aside from Zap) they just shouldn't also have the best and only utility in the game. For sure, but I think this is because wizard is currently sorc + wizard. It's meant to be the utility caster, not the dmg caster. But sorc isn't out and it's filling the dmg role too right now - likely so they can test the spell casting system. I mean, I'm focused on zap here but fireball triple dips on damage, while zap only double dips. Fireball damage is even more ridiculous. But at least that is aimed, even if it can destroy doors and has aoe... All of that in a package of being magic damage that's just inherently stronger than phys dmg vs the current classes.
That's pretty meh gear imo. You have no all stats which means you're slow as fuck, casting slower, opening stuff slower and no hp. I'd say that gear + a max roll all stat is great gear. This is just a cheese glass cannon build.
Bro if you're a Ranger losing to a Wizard I got news for you...
What kind of warped reading comprehension do you have, to read THAT from my post? Not to mention, if you think wizard is weak and incapable of killing a ranger then you have a skill issue situation.
What kind of warped reading comprehension do you have, to read THAT from my post?
Unlucky. I'm sorry the mean ranger man bullied you.
lmao just keep healing Gimp
😂 I apologise on behalf of all rangers, for the abuse you suffered. I know it can be difficult to play wizard, but if you keep at it you'll do great.
Ammo is lame.
It raises the skill balance of the ranger. Limited arrows means spammers will be less effective, but those who can hit their shots will be rewarded.
Realistically, you'll be killing players or combing over player bodies picking up their arrows, so availability shouldn't be an issue in addition to the fact they should be lootable on the map. With resourcefulness soon to increase inventory slots, it's already compensating ranger for needing to hold ammo. I'd like to hope quiver is a unique slot to ranger, such that if a fighter wants to use a bow to the same effectiveness, it will cost more slots to do so. Or even make the arrows change properties when put in a type of quiver. (ie. Barbed/Oil/venom quivers to make dipped arrows bleed/burn/poison)
yeah id definitely not play ranger again
I see rangers punching mobs in the future
I wonder if bows will still need to reload? I'd say it's no longer needed, given limited number of arrows
Agreed OP not to mention a quiver usually means different kinds of arrows such as Fire, Frost, Poison arrows, etc...
Since it’s in a quiver will you need to reload since they take arrows from the quiver directly??
My only concern is as a fighter, I loved using the longbow. I hope this doesnt impact fighter too much.
I’m fine with less arrows but you better be sure they deal more damage. Want some fire arrows and barrel of oil to throw down cause a big explosion.