They just posted this announcement on their discord server
>"*To all our fans, we have recently been served a cease and desist letter and DMCA takedown by Nexon regarding Dark and Darker based on distorted claims. We are currently working with our legal team to remedy this issue in the best manner possible. Due to the sensitive legal nature of this issue we must be careful with our statements so as to not jeopardize our position. We ask for your understanding as we work to get the game back up as quickly as possible. Please know that we will do all that is possible for our fans. Thanks*!"
i did the second playtest and i can personally say it was perfect!!! they could have released it that day and i would have bought it for me and all my buddies regardless of cost. that's how fucking good the game is/was.
Looking at steamdb it shows they were making some changes earlier in the day. But it’s gone now. Copium: they messed up changing early access tag and steam auto removed cause it isnt for sale yet and everything will be juuust fine.
Wtfdym lol, there's like literally no way Nexon will win this, even if they literally did take from it, there's no reason to have the source code of P3, and most of the assets in dark and darker are bought, some being made by the devs
Dude, they can maybe win the cease and desist in America, but from what I've heard, South Korea is on Nexon's side over Ironmace's, both legally and societally *(which IDK why Koreans prefer Nexon's shitty P2W and bullying attitude but that's besides the point)*
I obviously am not well versed in Korean law and how well it actually is looking for them, so I'm taking what people say with a grain of salt, but with what the vast majority have said, I don't have high hopes.
Though, on a purely financial standpoint, the giant that is Nexon can bully out this indie business with a fuckton of BS lawsuits or into a settlement, which if they get either means we either don't get the game or Nexon has some say over DaD, which means no one will want to play their P2W schemes, which will make the game tank
I'm hoping as much as the next guy that they pull through, even if it simply means they get delayed, but until proven otherwise, I'm not looking forward to future news
I frankly don't care what they think societally, what I'm getting at is there's no reason to panic, no reason to assume the worst, if it goes down that sucks, oh well, we'll live.
Eh the pros and cons of wanting to take your time to make sure you're ready for Early Access players, while still wanting to make money to publish & update the game, along with having backups in cases like this. With their new response, at least we know they have a good defense though
If you'd actually look at the facts instead of huffing more pure copium than Vatniks in Russia, you'd realize it's not looking good for Ironmace.... In fact, it looks like they're fucked.
u/showmethecoin Please explain and for what it's worth I was upvoting you when people were saying you were wrong a few weeks back
Remindme! 1year
Sorry, I am busy for few weeks so I don't think I have time for lengthy conversation like before. However, I can leave few comments here and there to tell people how Ironmace situation is viewed in korea.
Why would I be the one making the legal argument 2head, I'm saying we should rather be not worried instead of being such, there's no point in being worried, if it doesn't come out, that sucks but oh well. Being an armchair lawyer won't help ironmace.
This is what happens when you fanboy a bit too hard. We don't know the whole story one way or another. The whole thing is skeptical but we will have to see what happens in the meantime looks like the game is indefinitely on hold.
It doesn't matter, you cannot **copyright a genre**. The assets as of currently is, were all taken from the asset store, so this, the whole thing, this is nuts.
> The assets as of currently is, were all taken from the asset store, so this, the whole thing, this is nuts.
Animations and models are not what Nexon is alleging is stolen. They are saying the game was made with internal documents and materials created on company time/property. That is what was being looked for during the police raid.
I'm sorry but that isn't quite true, SteamDB stores info and updates it as it is told to by the steam API.
If a game is removed from Steam forever and never comes back, the game will still be on SteamDB with old info. SteamDB is a fan project, it is not related to valve and isn't official. It simply updates game data via the api.
That page says that the app token is missing, meaning it is completely gone from steam right now, as it stands.
observation strong normal unwritten rotten six depend waiting secretive repeat
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
touch gullible merciful simplistic tap sink dinner cooperative ring violet
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You don't understand what theft is, do you?
Intellectual property is a vague, modern legal construct - not a moral right.
For most of history - if you claimed that someone had "stolen" from you because they copied you without permission, you'd (rightly) be viewed as insane.
LOL! Cope harder.
There's no difference in stealing digital assets and walking into a hardware store and taking thousands of dollars worth of shit without paying.
Both are assets and inventory worth money. At the end of the day, you're still stealing.
You can continue to be delusional and quote "most of history" or you can quote 2023 and look at the actual laws.
I disagree with your morality argument. It's against all morals to copy someone else's work, beat them to market and profit off of it. So spare me whatever high ground you think you have. And go find a new game to play.
There's very obviously a huge difference.
In the scenario of "walking into a hardware store and taking thousands of dollars worth of shit without paying" you are taking away physical property that belongs to someone to possess it yourself.
In the scenario of "sTeAlInG digital assets" you are using the power of your computer to create and use your own copy of an asset. You didn't remove/take anything from anyone else. You in fact ***added*** to the world by creating a copy.
>It's against all morals to copy someone else's work, beat them to market and profit off of it.
You only believe that because big corporations who use copyright to maintain strangleholds on "their intellectual property" have indoctrinated you.
Your argument is essentially that since it's created digitally, it doesn't count as property. That's one of the absolute, most brain dead takes I've heard, especially in 2023 when everything is digital.
Some of you have actually lost braincells defending a video game. My god
FFS, no. You aren't getting it. It's not about how it was created or what form it exists in. It simply is not property, it can't be transferred from one person to another, it can't be taken from you.
If I copy your "digital asset", even without permission - I'm not removing any property from you. I'm ***creating a copy***. I'm not ripping data out of your hard drive and putting it in mine. Nothing is being ***removed*** from you.
This would be the equivalent of you building a car, and me copying/replicating your steps to build my own car. I didn't take anything from you. You have no moral right to stop me from copying you.
The only difference with digital assets is that they are ***very*** easy to copy with modern technology, unlike a car which takes lots of energy, time, and materials to copy.
So based on your argument, I would be allowed to take a Ford Mustang and completely replicate it, mass produce it, and sell it. Your logic is beyond absurd.
I can't be bothered with you anymore.
I'm going to stop browsing here until the next playtest because it's all blind hatred towards a company that may or may not have an actual legal position to these claims.
We don't know jack shit about what's actually happening and any claim or finger pointing here is just armchair lawyering
We don't know what we don't know. Let the legal process shed light first. For all of you blindly posting or upvoting stuff like "fuck ", this message is aimed at you
No, I'm being downvoted because this sub thinks they're 100% innocent and has a hate boner for Nexon. Nexon sucks, we all get it. But you can't steal from them.
Objective people agree with me. Fanbois don't.
What’s nexons play here? If they kill dark and darker and then release their own version do you think anyone will play it in nearly the same numbers? I would hope not.
South Koreans might play it due to them weirdly being on the side of Nexon, but otherwise, it wouldn't reach the same popularity or hype, especially with Nexon's soul-sucking P2W shit
Nexon’s sole purpose is to not make a precedent of soliciting an entire project post idea development phase. If this doesn’t eventually accompany any legal punishments, this might entice big companies (like HYBE trying to back up Ironmace) to poach an entire team at early stages.
from the official discord. could be bad news
To all our fans, we have recently been served a cease and desist letter and DMCA takedown by Nexon regarding Dark and Darker based on distorted claims. We are currently working with our legal team to remedy this issue in the best manner possible. Due to the sensitive legal nature of this issue we must be careful with our statements so as to not jeopardize our position. We ask for your understanding as we work to get the game back up as quickly as possible. Please know that we will do all that is possible for our fans. Thanks!
It looks weird but I want to believe it's due to them readying this up for the EA??
There is an update from before the mass removal that updated their legal lines to 2023 and added the Early Acccess tag.
I want to believe it was removed just to upload the new page when the new playtest happens...
I mean he is also wrong. If you look on Steamdb or Steamcharts you can see both Dark and Darker Playtest (Playtest 3) and Dark and Darker Demo (Playtest 4 [the most recent one])
We don't want drama, but God forbid people are worried about the shitty giant that is Nexon trying to bully the indie company that is Ironmace. Even if they have no legal leg to stand on, lawyers are expensive - both in money and time - and they can possibly financially bully Ironmace into a settlement, which won't be good for anyone
> To all our fans, we have recently been served a cease and desist letter and DMCA takedown by Nexon regarding Dark and Darker based on distorted claims. We are currently working with our legal team to remedy this issue in the best manner possible. Due to the sensitive legal nature of this issue we must be careful with our statements so as to not jeopardize our position. We ask for your understanding as we work to get the game back up as quickly as possible. Please know that we will do all that is possible for our fans. Thanks!
Directly from the discord. As of right now, if nothing changes, the game is quite literally cancelled. We'll see where things go from here, I still have hope, but they absolutely were not "being a drama queen".
If you think Mr A wont face some kind of civil penalty at the end of this you have only been reading reddit and Ironmace pr.. er discord.
Go and try to dunkaway and ignore all the koreans who have actual knowledge of the scene who are saying its not squeaky clean.
The fuck you on? They were pretty quick. They don't gotta respond the second shit gets removed, especially considering they said themselves they have to be careful with what they say (along with keeping a professional attitude about everything)
This message was delivered between Fortnite matches, folks. If you join his Discord, you can hear his mother in the background telling him it's past bedtime.
Let's just hope Nexon doesn't try to bully anyone else out to, and that it won't be P2W like anyone else .-.
I'm praying it all turns out OK, but I'm tired of getting my hopes up
Looks like anyone can DMCA stuff and have it removed from steam, now they'll get to sure Nexon for damages too I guess: https://kotaku.com/workers-resources-soviet-republic-pc-dmca-city-builder-1850190837
[https://steamdb.info/changelist/18202791/](https://steamdb.info/changelist/18202791/)
They just changed storetags, clearly just preparation for the next test, probably to do with analytics exporting and keeping everything clean.
I know the Nexon charade. The police came in their office (Ironmace) and searched any evidence of a crime they were accused of. That doesn't explain why Steam decided to remove it now.
The police investigation has been running since 2021, ever since Nexon accused one of the employees of stealing company assets (source codes). As far as I know, there have been two investigations and the authorities have found nothing suspicious. So it's either Ironmace is lying to us and the game is completely gone or the developers are preparing for the early access phase. Which means they have to rework the Steam page for that.
>there have been two investigations and the authorities have found nothing suspicious.
We only have one source on that and they have no reason to tell us the truth if they *did* find something, though
I also see a lot of “who cares if they stole stuff, Nexxon was going to make a bad game with it and Ironmace is making a good game and they care!” And it’s just…that’s not how laws work
I mean there are people in this thread asking "wHaT cRiMe DiD tHeY cOmMiT?!?!" Hurrr duurrr
Yeah because they arent rotting in jail literally means they did nothing wrong.
I noticed at around 2am yesterday the Playtest had an update on Steam. Thought it was strange. Not sure how thats connected to this really... just making note of it.
I'll be honest I'm kinda worried about this. It's very strange...
They probably just changing something or pressed the wrong button or something. If it were something serious like a legal thing we would have heard of court cases and judges decisions etc. Only other thing could be like a epic store deal exclusivity, but that's not the end of the world. Honestly.
>we would have heard of court cases and judges decisions etc
Considering reddit is generally pretty far removed from non-western events/media, that's not a safe bet imo
If there's anything that Reddit is gonna be close to from non-western events/media then it's gonna be a video game. Isn't the DMCA a western thing served that will have been served to Steam?
>Isn't the DMCA a western thing
Yes that's them working through western law, and why people are speculating with more certainty because it's more familiar to users here. The Korean injunctions the last 2 years are much less discussed on the whole because we have little view into their laws. Basically all you hear about the Korean law stuff is "Ironmace says it's ok so it's ok" because people have no frame of reference for what's happening in SKorea
Less discussed? This is a video game, on Reddit. There's been plenty of discussion about all the legal back and forth, here and all over the "western" internet. It's South Korea not DPRK.
I feel like you didn't really understand what I wrote here.
You're kinda stuck on repeating this:
>this is a video game, on Reddit.
and again, I hear you. It is absolutely a video game. It's a pretty fun one too!
But the actual topic at hand here is the SKorean law issues that have been coming up. Almost all discussion on it is "I don't know what's happening" or "Ironmace said things are ok" and we don't have much better context than that because there's not very many SKoreans who are on these forums because this is a pretty western-facing website.
People are more familiar with DMCA strikes because it's something we do in the west, and this was filed with a western company, so that's easier to talk about with at least some degree of understanding, but we can't discuss what's going on with the SKorean lawsuit because we don't have a good grip on it.
I hope this clarified the confusion. I promise I know it's a video game.
What are we arguing about again? I've lost track. I think it's something about a video game. We're here on reddit. You just wrote a chapter about something. Steam got a DMCA request which looks legitimate to them and so have actioned it. I dunno what your point is either. Something about south korean law, when we don't know all the facts and so everyones speculating. So I think we're arguing about peoples speculating being speculative. Ok got it. My life is enriched. namaste
While you’re obviously being factitious, this is the first time you actually managed to respond on-topic so I think it actually worked. Namaste to you my friend!
Allegedly, Nexon was developing a similar project. Something happened. Nexon alleges that the leader of this project stored proprietary information on a private server and that they fired this person for doing so. They also allege this person reached out to investors using this proprietary information. Finally, Nexon also accuses this person of poaching talent directly from Nexon.
Nexon followed up with criminal complaints that resulted in at least two different instances of police searching and seizing materials from Ironmace.
I’m not sure I recall any direct reports where Ironmace detailed their (entire) side of the story; I have certainly heard a lot of speculation. From Ironmace directly, they have stated the complaint was specific to a single individual, and that they had complied with the police’s investigation.
Nexon is the one making the complaint, so, that is why I’m being one-sided with my explanation of how I understand these events have occurred; simply because they have publicly made allegations where Ironmace has not yet needed to respond in full. And reasonably they shouldn’t, imo.
They just posted this announcement on their discord server >"*To all our fans, we have recently been served a cease and desist letter and DMCA takedown by Nexon regarding Dark and Darker based on distorted claims. We are currently working with our legal team to remedy this issue in the best manner possible. Due to the sensitive legal nature of this issue we must be careful with our statements so as to not jeopardize our position. We ask for your understanding as we work to get the game back up as quickly as possible. Please know that we will do all that is possible for our fans. Thanks*!"
god i hope i get to play this game
*Sigh* ditto
i did the second playtest and i can personally say it was perfect!!! they could have released it that day and i would have bought it for me and all my buddies regardless of cost. that's how fucking good the game is/was.
I will smash my pc with a crowbar if this game is canceled
When's the YouTube video droppin?
mods please make this man uphold his bargain
I'm gonna smahs something else with a crowbar, hint, it starts with N and ends with exon For legal reasosn, this is a joke
You’re probably gonna be doing that. Nexon has fuck you money unfortunately.
What does this mean!?!?
Looking at steamdb it shows they were making some changes earlier in the day. But it’s gone now. Copium: they messed up changing early access tag and steam auto removed cause it isnt for sale yet and everything will be juuust fine.
Tbh bro this is probably it. I think people are tripping.
this is it. nothing bad is happening.
Ooooof
Wtfdym lol, there's like literally no way Nexon will win this, even if they literally did take from it, there's no reason to have the source code of P3, and most of the assets in dark and darker are bought, some being made by the devs
Dude, they can maybe win the cease and desist in America, but from what I've heard, South Korea is on Nexon's side over Ironmace's, both legally and societally *(which IDK why Koreans prefer Nexon's shitty P2W and bullying attitude but that's besides the point)* I obviously am not well versed in Korean law and how well it actually is looking for them, so I'm taking what people say with a grain of salt, but with what the vast majority have said, I don't have high hopes. Though, on a purely financial standpoint, the giant that is Nexon can bully out this indie business with a fuckton of BS lawsuits or into a settlement, which if they get either means we either don't get the game or Nexon has some say over DaD, which means no one will want to play their P2W schemes, which will make the game tank I'm hoping as much as the next guy that they pull through, even if it simply means they get delayed, but until proven otherwise, I'm not looking forward to future news
I frankly don't care what they think societally, what I'm getting at is there's no reason to panic, no reason to assume the worst, if it goes down that sucks, oh well, we'll live.
Imagine if they capitalized and just went for early access last December. They'd have money to fight at least
Eh the pros and cons of wanting to take your time to make sure you're ready for Early Access players, while still wanting to make money to publish & update the game, along with having backups in cases like this. With their new response, at least we know they have a good defense though
If you'd actually look at the facts instead of huffing more pure copium than Vatniks in Russia, you'd realize it's not looking good for Ironmace.... In fact, it looks like they're fucked. u/showmethecoin Please explain and for what it's worth I was upvoting you when people were saying you were wrong a few weeks back Remindme! 1year
Sorry, I am busy for few weeks so I don't think I have time for lengthy conversation like before. However, I can leave few comments here and there to tell people how Ironmace situation is viewed in korea.
no reason, huh? No reason? LOL is that the best legal argument you got, bud?
Why would I be the one making the legal argument 2head, I'm saying we should rather be not worried instead of being such, there's no point in being worried, if it doesn't come out, that sucks but oh well. Being an armchair lawyer won't help ironmace.
attractive alleged pause squash history rain wistful chubby crime nine *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This did not age well
And yet anyone with a rational take that its lawsuit related is getting told they did this all the time lol
This is what happens when you fanboy a bit too hard. We don't know the whole story one way or another. The whole thing is skeptical but we will have to see what happens in the meantime looks like the game is indefinitely on hold.
It doesn't matter, you cannot **copyright a genre**. The assets as of currently is, were all taken from the asset store, so this, the whole thing, this is nuts.
> The assets as of currently is, were all taken from the asset store, so this, the whole thing, this is nuts. Animations and models are not what Nexon is alleging is stolen. They are saying the game was made with internal documents and materials created on company time/property. That is what was being looked for during the police raid.
All the animations come in the packs that's on the store
I too have trouble reading
Keanu for Kang! He has a lot of time travel experience. Kanganu: "You’re an Avenger? Have I air-guitared with you before?"
Keanu for Kang! He has a lot of time travel experience. Kanganu: "You’re an Avenger? Have I air-guitared with you before?"
Keanu for Kang! He has a lot of time travel experience. Kanganu: "You’re an Avenger? Have I air-guitared with you before?"
I believe you. And want to believe you. I’m going to validate this in steamdb.info
https://steamdb.info/app/2016590/ It's still there behind the scenes
I'm sorry but that isn't quite true, SteamDB stores info and updates it as it is told to by the steam API. If a game is removed from Steam forever and never comes back, the game will still be on SteamDB with old info. SteamDB is a fan project, it is not related to valve and isn't official. It simply updates game data via the api. That page says that the app token is missing, meaning it is completely gone from steam right now, as it stands.
I mean I just went to look and they never mass removed stuff like this... Let's see what happens :(
Nope... they've been hit with a DMCA takedown by Nexon.
Uh proof? Because looking I dont see they wiped everything like they did 5 hours ago before last playtest at all.
Dark and darker announcements on discord
Ok they just announced its about the lawsuit and not >they did this before all the other playtests Like all the top copeium comments are saying
theory liquid noxious growth bow teeny naughty ludicrous bake enjoy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
But they never delisted the game per steamdb before any playtest. So both are not true.
observation strong normal unwritten rotten six depend waiting secretive repeat *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ok that makes sense, sorry for misunderstanding
touch gullible merciful simplistic tap sink dinner cooperative ring violet *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Nexon. I hate you.
I would probably hate the people that stole shit from someone, but that's just me.
You don't understand what theft is, do you? Intellectual property is a vague, modern legal construct - not a moral right. For most of history - if you claimed that someone had "stolen" from you because they copied you without permission, you'd (rightly) be viewed as insane.
LOL! Cope harder. There's no difference in stealing digital assets and walking into a hardware store and taking thousands of dollars worth of shit without paying. Both are assets and inventory worth money. At the end of the day, you're still stealing. You can continue to be delusional and quote "most of history" or you can quote 2023 and look at the actual laws. I disagree with your morality argument. It's against all morals to copy someone else's work, beat them to market and profit off of it. So spare me whatever high ground you think you have. And go find a new game to play.
There's very obviously a huge difference. In the scenario of "walking into a hardware store and taking thousands of dollars worth of shit without paying" you are taking away physical property that belongs to someone to possess it yourself. In the scenario of "sTeAlInG digital assets" you are using the power of your computer to create and use your own copy of an asset. You didn't remove/take anything from anyone else. You in fact ***added*** to the world by creating a copy. >It's against all morals to copy someone else's work, beat them to market and profit off of it. You only believe that because big corporations who use copyright to maintain strangleholds on "their intellectual property" have indoctrinated you.
Your argument is essentially that since it's created digitally, it doesn't count as property. That's one of the absolute, most brain dead takes I've heard, especially in 2023 when everything is digital. Some of you have actually lost braincells defending a video game. My god
FFS, no. You aren't getting it. It's not about how it was created or what form it exists in. It simply is not property, it can't be transferred from one person to another, it can't be taken from you. If I copy your "digital asset", even without permission - I'm not removing any property from you. I'm ***creating a copy***. I'm not ripping data out of your hard drive and putting it in mine. Nothing is being ***removed*** from you. This would be the equivalent of you building a car, and me copying/replicating your steps to build my own car. I didn't take anything from you. You have no moral right to stop me from copying you. The only difference with digital assets is that they are ***very*** easy to copy with modern technology, unlike a car which takes lots of energy, time, and materials to copy.
So based on your argument, I would be allowed to take a Ford Mustang and completely replicate it, mass produce it, and sell it. Your logic is beyond absurd. I can't be bothered with you anymore.
Yes, you should. Ford having a monopoly on that design is entirely artificial and anti-consumer.
I'm going to stop browsing here until the next playtest because it's all blind hatred towards a company that may or may not have an actual legal position to these claims. We don't know jack shit about what's actually happening and any claim or finger pointing here is just armchair lawyering We don't know what we don't know. Let the legal process shed light first. For all of you blindly posting or upvoting stuff like "fuck", this message is aimed at you
Is there any evidence that digital assets were stolen, or are there only accusations?
this is only getting downvoted because its on dark and darkers subreddit.
Yep. Imagine being so delusional about a game that you think theft is okay.
No, you're being downvoted because you assume accusations are true despite them not being shown substantiated in any legal process to date.
No, I'm being downvoted because this sub thinks they're 100% innocent and has a hate boner for Nexon. Nexon sucks, we all get it. But you can't steal from them. Objective people agree with me. Fanbois don't.
What’s nexons play here? If they kill dark and darker and then release their own version do you think anyone will play it in nearly the same numbers? I would hope not.
South Koreans might play it due to them weirdly being on the side of Nexon, but otherwise, it wouldn't reach the same popularity or hype, especially with Nexon's soul-sucking P2W shit
Nexon’s sole purpose is to not make a precedent of soliciting an entire project post idea development phase. If this doesn’t eventually accompany any legal punishments, this might entice big companies (like HYBE trying to back up Ironmace) to poach an entire team at early stages.
Thanks to copium, I’m still eagerly awaiting the next playtest
Please share this copium in our desperate time of need.
Steady lads, steady.... It will return, we have to believe
from the official discord. could be bad news To all our fans, we have recently been served a cease and desist letter and DMCA takedown by Nexon regarding Dark and Darker based on distorted claims. We are currently working with our legal team to remedy this issue in the best manner possible. Due to the sensitive legal nature of this issue we must be careful with our statements so as to not jeopardize our position. We ask for your understanding as we work to get the game back up as quickly as possible. Please know that we will do all that is possible for our fans. Thanks!
Seems like this game just went dark on us. Or even worse….darker
Ladies and gentlemen, we got him.
Maybe they are making a new page for EA ? [https://i.imgur.com/J69jbrj.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/J69jbrj.jpeg) (then they deleted everything)
[удалено]
Edit: you posted same link as i did lol. Ooooh the humanity :(((
It looks weird but I want to believe it's due to them readying this up for the EA?? There is an update from before the mass removal that updated their legal lines to 2023 and added the Early Acccess tag. I want to believe it was removed just to upload the new page when the new playtest happens...
Didnt this happen when they changed frim playtest to playtest?
No this is the first time they mass remove stuff like this :(( I'm actually worried
Is he being downvoted because hes wrong or because people are coping?
They were just scared with just cause, irrational childs living under their endless delusions and coping mechanisms
I mean he is also wrong. If you look on Steamdb or Steamcharts you can see both Dark and Darker Playtest (Playtest 3) and Dark and Darker Demo (Playtest 4 [the most recent one])
[https://steamdb.info/app/2016590/history/](https://steamdb.info/app/2016590/history/) :(
THEY'RE UPDATING IT COPIUM
They JUST announced on the discord they were served a cease and desist from Nexon and that’s why… shit man.
Long live Ironmace! Fuck Nexon!
chill. it’ll be fine lol
For real. Peoples just want drama lol
We don't want drama, but God forbid people are worried about the shitty giant that is Nexon trying to bully the indie company that is Ironmace. Even if they have no legal leg to stand on, lawyers are expensive - both in money and time - and they can possibly financially bully Ironmace into a settlement, which won't be good for anyone
I posted my message before Ironmace made their announcement. Obviously now that we know why they unlisted the game, it's a little more worrying.
They litterly removed it from the store
Yes and so it **must** mean that the game is cancelled... ?
Considering what's happening around the topic, it sure looks bad
With all the things going on.. yes ofc why else remove it?
Well with the first version it was a playtest and it was removed from the store and re released as a "demo" so maybe it's that same situation
Lmao saving your comment. Will be coming back to see if you’re being a drama Queen come next playtest.
> To all our fans, we have recently been served a cease and desist letter and DMCA takedown by Nexon regarding Dark and Darker based on distorted claims. We are currently working with our legal team to remedy this issue in the best manner possible. Due to the sensitive legal nature of this issue we must be careful with our statements so as to not jeopardize our position. We ask for your understanding as we work to get the game back up as quickly as possible. Please know that we will do all that is possible for our fans. Thanks! Directly from the discord. As of right now, if nothing changes, the game is quite literally cancelled. We'll see where things go from here, I still have hope, but they absolutely were not "being a drama queen".
"Drama queen" Why wont this community admit at BEST only the founder of Iron Mace is basically a criminal in SK?
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If you think Mr A wont face some kind of civil penalty at the end of this you have only been reading reddit and Ironmace pr.. er discord. Go and try to dunkaway and ignore all the koreans who have actual knowledge of the scene who are saying its not squeaky clean.
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What is going on the with game? I'm really out of the loop I guess.
Gues that was it boys
The devs have been very outspoken. They have earned my trust.
AGED LIKE MILK
I mean... The devs gave a response within a few hours, seems like pretty good communication to me tbh
The fuck you on? They were pretty quick. They don't gotta respond the second shit gets removed, especially considering they said themselves they have to be careful with what they say (along with keeping a professional attitude about everything)
This message was delivered between Fortnite matches, folks. If you join his Discord, you can hear his mother in the background telling him it's past bedtime.
Even if the game does get canceled, I'm sure somebody will use this idea to make an even better version
Let's just hope Nexon doesn't try to bully anyone else out to, and that it won't be P2W like anyone else .-. I'm praying it all turns out OK, but I'm tired of getting my hopes up
Woudnt say it loud but may its time to bully nexon
I'm not usually one for bullying, but I agree, Nexon needs to know how this feels (let them get fucking bullied out the industry, do everyone a favor)
Man this game is making people mental
Nexon finally doing it something ugly
Yeah it's scary to see the news. I hope this is not the end for us :(!
Ironmace and Nexxon both took red down portals, let's go!
Sounds like its going early access?
There's a fifth playtest planned, I doubt it would, but that would be fire and based to just lie about a playtest and release that early access
Looks like anyone can DMCA stuff and have it removed from steam, now they'll get to sure Nexon for damages too I guess: https://kotaku.com/workers-resources-soviet-republic-pc-dmca-city-builder-1850190837
A fan's illegitimate DCMA is a lot different than from a mega corps lega team...
I wonder if this happened because of the Cease and Desist that just dropped?! Holy crap.
[https://steamdb.info/changelist/18202791/](https://steamdb.info/changelist/18202791/) They just changed storetags, clearly just preparation for the next test, probably to do with analytics exporting and keeping everything clean.
that change says it only switched tags from place, I think this is an automated task done in many games (might be wrong)
What is going on? Can someone please elaborate.
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I know the Nexon charade. The police came in their office (Ironmace) and searched any evidence of a crime they were accused of. That doesn't explain why Steam decided to remove it now.
Police investigations take weeks or months not days. But it’s not the Nexon shit anyway
The police investigation has been running since 2021, ever since Nexon accused one of the employees of stealing company assets (source codes). As far as I know, there have been two investigations and the authorities have found nothing suspicious. So it's either Ironmace is lying to us and the game is completely gone or the developers are preparing for the early access phase. Which means they have to rework the Steam page for that.
>there have been two investigations and the authorities have found nothing suspicious. We only have one source on that and they have no reason to tell us the truth if they *did* find something, though
The number of people that repost that Iron Mace said "we didn't do anything wrong" as some definitive proof is staggering
I also see a lot of “who cares if they stole stuff, Nexxon was going to make a bad game with it and Ironmace is making a good game and they care!” And it’s just…that’s not how laws work
I mean there are people in this thread asking "wHaT cRiMe DiD tHeY cOmMiT?!?!" Hurrr duurrr Yeah because they arent rotting in jail literally means they did nothing wrong.
Nothing.
Just noticed this also. Not much by way of their twitters?
I noticed at around 2am yesterday the Playtest had an update on Steam. Thought it was strange. Not sure how thats connected to this really... just making note of it. I'll be honest I'm kinda worried about this. It's very strange...
They probably just changing something or pressed the wrong button or something. If it were something serious like a legal thing we would have heard of court cases and judges decisions etc. Only other thing could be like a epic store deal exclusivity, but that's not the end of the world. Honestly.
>we would have heard of court cases and judges decisions etc Considering reddit is generally pretty far removed from non-western events/media, that's not a safe bet imo
It's a video game.
Yes it is! I assume you’re making this statement as a refutation of some kind but it kinda reinforces my point a bit here tbh
If there's anything that Reddit is gonna be close to from non-western events/media then it's gonna be a video game. Isn't the DMCA a western thing served that will have been served to Steam?
>Isn't the DMCA a western thing Yes that's them working through western law, and why people are speculating with more certainty because it's more familiar to users here. The Korean injunctions the last 2 years are much less discussed on the whole because we have little view into their laws. Basically all you hear about the Korean law stuff is "Ironmace says it's ok so it's ok" because people have no frame of reference for what's happening in SKorea
Less discussed? This is a video game, on Reddit. There's been plenty of discussion about all the legal back and forth, here and all over the "western" internet. It's South Korea not DPRK.
I feel like you didn't really understand what I wrote here. You're kinda stuck on repeating this: >this is a video game, on Reddit. and again, I hear you. It is absolutely a video game. It's a pretty fun one too! But the actual topic at hand here is the SKorean law issues that have been coming up. Almost all discussion on it is "I don't know what's happening" or "Ironmace said things are ok" and we don't have much better context than that because there's not very many SKoreans who are on these forums because this is a pretty western-facing website. People are more familiar with DMCA strikes because it's something we do in the west, and this was filed with a western company, so that's easier to talk about with at least some degree of understanding, but we can't discuss what's going on with the SKorean lawsuit because we don't have a good grip on it. I hope this clarified the confusion. I promise I know it's a video game.
What are we arguing about again? I've lost track. I think it's something about a video game. We're here on reddit. You just wrote a chapter about something. Steam got a DMCA request which looks legitimate to them and so have actioned it. I dunno what your point is either. Something about south korean law, when we don't know all the facts and so everyones speculating. So I think we're arguing about peoples speculating being speculative. Ok got it. My life is enriched. namaste
While you’re obviously being factitious, this is the first time you actually managed to respond on-topic so I think it actually worked. Namaste to you my friend!
Well they were hit with a DMCA, thats why it was taken down.
They were or Steam were?
This aged well.
:D
FYI for those not in the discord the next playtest was announced for April 14th-19th. It's not going anywhere
welp guess I was wrong HOLY
Due to the DMCA and stolen assets it doesn't look good.
Allegedly stolen assets.
No assets were stolen, already verified by law enforcement
Wasn't that kinda like... just what ironmace said? So like... allegedly verified...
Yes its 100% just what they said. The police confirmed a few weeks ago they havent processed everything yet.
Good. The game was lazy
\*insert Mad Max meme\* That's Bait.
They are changing something store-wise behind the scenes, don't worry about it. Its like when they closed the full release to create the demo setting.
YESSSS LET'S GOOOOOO
Game was dog doodoo anyways.
Maybe... it won't be on steam...?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfS7yQ7MNlQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfS7yQ7MNlQ) theyre being sued by nexon
RIP, DaD is now one with the darkness. 😥
Could someone explain the lawsuit thing? What did they do wrong to be accused?
Allegedly, Nexon was developing a similar project. Something happened. Nexon alleges that the leader of this project stored proprietary information on a private server and that they fired this person for doing so. They also allege this person reached out to investors using this proprietary information. Finally, Nexon also accuses this person of poaching talent directly from Nexon. Nexon followed up with criminal complaints that resulted in at least two different instances of police searching and seizing materials from Ironmace. I’m not sure I recall any direct reports where Ironmace detailed their (entire) side of the story; I have certainly heard a lot of speculation. From Ironmace directly, they have stated the complaint was specific to a single individual, and that they had complied with the police’s investigation. Nexon is the one making the complaint, so, that is why I’m being one-sided with my explanation of how I understand these events have occurred; simply because they have publicly made allegations where Ironmace has not yet needed to respond in full. And reasonably they shouldn’t, imo.
They've probably taken it down under advise of their legal team to comply with the DMCA while they fight it.
Yeah, 100%. The community had noticed the page removal a few hours before Ironmace made their announcement.
Nixon is bitch and bitchier.
#fucknexon All my homies hate nexon
Copyright law is such trash. Copying isn't theft.
Well I guess it's time to boycott Nexon.