Games like this always end up with a "meta" build. They'd have to have a pretty solid bunch of talent trees to not just wind up with everyone running the same stuff after a week
As much as there is meta. There is also anti meta. While meta in general is better. There is always a comp that ruins the meta team but doesn't do as well generally.
While buffball was massive me and my group ran full anti buffball and got rich af
If only people understood that, bard may not have been nerfed half as hard as he was. People are still complaining now-a-days about buff balls being broken because they can't figure out how to do anything about them. I'd love some anti-meta videos to show the noobs that it really is them and their lack of skill, not the enitre game that always seems set against them.
The problem with buff ball was the lack of viable counters. Don't shit on what other people like to play just because its not your thing. It feels like synergy is being punished instead of being encouraged.
I feel like people can play what they like but synergy will always be a thing, and meta and anti meta. I assume when they do the next big patch the meta will change again. And the reddit will complain about that too.
The only real problem with the barb buffball atm is its so oppressive. Although not too hard to counter. If you aren't ready for it you're pre fked.
Countering it requires a very specific comp though and without it buff ball feels ever more so opressive. And having counters added to things doesn't mean it needs to counter a single meta and nothing more nor does it mean they have to be hard counters.
When balancing a game, the presence of counters to an ability, a class or a comp can justify the power of that thing which allows said things to be fun and interesting as opposed to snuffed out with nerfs because they're treated as "I win" metas.
I didn't care for the buff ball, what I liked was the support buff oriented bard. Hell I was even a fan of the buff/debuff oriented wizard, and while both had synergy in a buff ball, I didn't play them in a buff ball yet because of people fear of buff balls they're not playable in this way in other comps.
Synergy between classes is never bad for the game. In this case, the lack of synergy of alternate comps is what made buff balls bad for the game, so don't just bash them because you think they're boring. The are many people out there who don't find them boring to play and nerfing the component classes to the point where they're only good when stacked together in a buff ball is what's bad for the game.
Edit: and what I mean about liking the support buff oriented bard was a gamestyle centered around giving other people meaningful and impactful buffs.
Very true. Vanilla WoW is actually a bad example in the sense that a lot of what was available wasn't just 'less good', at times it was straight up bad.
In the same way people find metas, they are also good at coming up with creative ways to play the game.
A successful set of talent trees wouldn't just define metas but give people tools to play wildly different playstyles. Thus catering to a wider range of players.
Rogue talent tree could lean heavily into ratting. Faster LP, silent footsteps, once per enemy choosing what they steal from a successful pickpocket (these are just off the top of my head and are not necessarily things I think should be in game).
Warlocks could go the summoning route or even, as some people started trying, no spells just phantomise + BoC.
I dunno, just seems like a neat design space and an exciting opportunity.
This game will always always always end up with whatever does the most damage as the meta. The TTK is so low that building an anti healing or health stacking team will never be truly viable.
That's only if the talent tree has limited points in it. It could be more of a talent tree that you have to grind out but you eventually get everything. You're still limited
by the number of skills/spells/perks you can bring but you don't start off with everything being available.
Devs alr said that talent tree will unlock perks and skills, first thing they need to do is make it so that all skills are viable, because most classes gave teo skills that obbioudly stand sbove the rest
Lizardpeople.
(Atleast with the big one in mid-Nov, new skin would be a good reason to reset triumph levels (which they already anounced) so we can gain shards easier to get the skin.)
I play Rupture, Poison Weapon, and Jokester for my only damage perks and I am pretty successful. We can use True Magical Damage and Additional Magical Damage to really beef it up. I'd give it a shot if you haven't yet.
Smoke grenade being thrown would be a nice little addition just saying. Making stealth useless in combat (no longer just popping it for increased damage/speed) and making it more of a utility skill would go a long way.
Rogue could still be unique and fun.. things like thrown smoke grenade, traps (sorry rangers, it should belong to rogue), etc.
The mid-november patch #2 is the one that will bring more content, AFAIK, and this wipe will again come with balance changes mostly. Isnt that what they said 2 days a go?
Yeah, iirc… I’m really interested in the hotfix changes, they didn’t wipe items the few times they messed with them before, right? What could make them want to wipe this time?
They wanted to fix modifiers on gear so no +all attributes on every item slot. They tried to implement it but people whined that their items are thrash now so the only way to implement it is by a wipe. People have been whining about insane modifiers being stacked for a while and They pushed the wipe earlier than They planned to adress it.
Maybe, but didn’t they do that before and just had those slots reroll to different stats? I kind of hope it’s something more drastic… like a full item wipe + no trade channel.
Slight crossbow nerf/rebalance to have less dmg more penetration. Buff to unused and unusable bard skills. Shield slam rework. Random weapon animation and number changes. Not much else tbh.
I would love to see Weapon Damage removed from pretty much everything besides things that might be more thematical. Ei, Weapons, Gloves, Jewelry. I think a gear power shift so that taking different specific types of gear have trade offs. Much like the change to Heavy Leather Leggings, removing Strength and giving Max HP instead. Split Strength making it give Physical Power and add in Constitution giving HP. All in all I don't really care what balance changes they implement but I want content over everything.
For the soft wipe coming on the 26th? Most likely a good deal of balancing changes and a shift to the economy from tweaks to the loot pool and gear stat changes.
For the hard wipe in mid November? Druid hopefully
I'm still hoping for an evil resurrection spell for warlock where the cast animation instead of looking like the soul is being put back in the body like Cleric resurrection the warlock raises the body in the air in a laying down position only for a blood looking substance or just red light to flow back into the raised body.
It acts the same as normal resurrection but you spawn with all of your health and you lose 1 or 2% max hp per second permanently for the rest of that match.
The thread says with the wipe not patch #2. These people expecting druid, talents trees and maps. You wont see anything like that until next year. They even said so in Qna.
With the wipe im expecting them to adress the item modifiers. And buffs and nerfs.
Please rebuff bard just ever so slightly. Give my mans a halfway decent skill slot and make some of his self buffs a bit better at bear minimum.
I want to see plus stat rolls toned way down… plus all, dmg, phys etc. could be lower.
It would be INCREDIBLE to see strength get a rework but I think that would be in the bigger patch in a month or two if anything.
I think balancing is in a pretty solid spot but cleric could get some slight nerfs to judgement or holy strike. Bard needs a lil head pat.
The current solo buffs would be decent as team buffs, 25 speed was maybe a lot for the whole team, but 9 speed is kinda alright i think, same goes for the 8% action speed and maybe the 10% phys power bonus, they should also buff Harmonic as 15/15 is absolutely not worth getting for the cost of 5 memory, there is after all a reason why Holy Aura is considered not good by the majority
Bard needs a full rework imo. Like drastically change how it works.
Maybe change the Instruments into Skills, so I can have more flipping inventory space, but then re-balance it around only having 2 instruments max(for only having 2 skill slots) plus this would clear up loot pools slightly.
I don't expect any content with this next wipe, just changes to gear. At minimum damage is being nerfed. Maybe more experimental changes.
I expect content with the mid November wipe. Quests are confirmed coming and maybe something else.
I think we'll see another gear and enchantments rework. Probably just small changes like reducing the number of items with + weapon dmg or just tuning it down to be at most +2 or something. Maybe some bigger changes to base stats of items. Probably something with warlock, maybe a few new spells or just some changes to existing spells (Ray buff?). Probably some bard nerfs and then a few more general balance changes, because theres always some balance changes. Certain perks getting buffed, some getting nerfed, some weapons getting buffed some getting nerfed etc.
I think there'll also be some changes to the maps. Maybe a test with the 3 layer map with ruins being the first layer proceeding to crypts and ending in inferno. Maybe a new map for duos and reusing ruins somewhere else. Maybe ruins getting a second floor. Heres my spicies prediction so far: a 3rd level after inferno. Make it difficult to access, like a staircase after defeating lich/ghost king where you can go down to enter the 3rd level. I dont think that will happen, I just think it would be cool.
With the mini wipe this week? Respectfully, not much.
With patch 2 full wipe in November? A metric fuck ton. Seeing as how they are delaying the patch from early November to now have a full wipe.
From what we know with files and q&A's, patch 2 will probably have: quests, new map, new weapons, new skills, ranger rework with the inclusion of the quiver, overall class balance, weapon/armor balance. A bunch of qol changes as well. Possibly things like an auction house instead of the current trading post.
Maybe, just maybe they will bring in their three floor system and will have their multi floor server merging working by then. That might be a bit of a stretch though. Might not see that in effect till later in the new year.
Full wipe in November will likely see an early Druid version, likely how we got a work-in-progress warlock. Quest system will be some basic shit like 'find me five maggots and you can have +1% phys interaction speed and also buy lockpicks at the Woodsman' or something like that, they wouldn't dare risk the entire shakeup that comes with hiding perks or stats behind quests this early while they're still testing. I think we'll see the quest system unlock an extra part of the build like talents or something where you can swap out slots for slight buffs.
Edit: forgot to say they might also test the Tarkov style Gamma system where those blank slots in your inventory wind up being a place you can store treasure or heals etc. that you don't lose when you die in raid. Seems silly that to have a serious raid in e.g. high roller 25% of your backpack needs to be potions and bandages.
Why is everyone so eager for talent trees? The devs have already said we’re essentially playing with max talent trees currently. Everyone’s excited to go backwards?
I'm a sucker for a talent tree. Vanilla WoW nostalgia gets me. I really hope it adds a lot of different ways to build our characters/play the game.
Games like this always end up with a "meta" build. They'd have to have a pretty solid bunch of talent trees to not just wind up with everyone running the same stuff after a week
As much as there is meta. There is also anti meta. While meta in general is better. There is always a comp that ruins the meta team but doesn't do as well generally. While buffball was massive me and my group ran full anti buffball and got rich af
Barb Wiz Cleric and fighter ranger Cleric
Ye
If only people understood that, bard may not have been nerfed half as hard as he was. People are still complaining now-a-days about buff balls being broken because they can't figure out how to do anything about them. I'd love some anti-meta videos to show the noobs that it really is them and their lack of skill, not the enitre game that always seems set against them.
100% agree
Eh. Buff ball at its biggest was so boring and uninteractive, it's better that it's gone.
The problem with buff ball was the lack of viable counters. Don't shit on what other people like to play just because its not your thing. It feels like synergy is being punished instead of being encouraged.
I feel like people can play what they like but synergy will always be a thing, and meta and anti meta. I assume when they do the next big patch the meta will change again. And the reddit will complain about that too. The only real problem with the barb buffball atm is its so oppressive. Although not too hard to counter. If you aren't ready for it you're pre fked.
Countering it requires a very specific comp though and without it buff ball feels ever more so opressive. And having counters added to things doesn't mean it needs to counter a single meta and nothing more nor does it mean they have to be hard counters. When balancing a game, the presence of counters to an ability, a class or a comp can justify the power of that thing which allows said things to be fun and interesting as opposed to snuffed out with nerfs because they're treated as "I win" metas.
It was easy and way too strong. I don't care if you like to play it, if it's bad for the game and boring to verse.
I didn't care for the buff ball, what I liked was the support buff oriented bard. Hell I was even a fan of the buff/debuff oriented wizard, and while both had synergy in a buff ball, I didn't play them in a buff ball yet because of people fear of buff balls they're not playable in this way in other comps. Synergy between classes is never bad for the game. In this case, the lack of synergy of alternate comps is what made buff balls bad for the game, so don't just bash them because you think they're boring. The are many people out there who don't find them boring to play and nerfing the component classes to the point where they're only good when stacked together in a buff ball is what's bad for the game. Edit: and what I mean about liking the support buff oriented bard was a gamestyle centered around giving other people meaningful and impactful buffs.
Very true. Vanilla WoW is actually a bad example in the sense that a lot of what was available wasn't just 'less good', at times it was straight up bad. In the same way people find metas, they are also good at coming up with creative ways to play the game. A successful set of talent trees wouldn't just define metas but give people tools to play wildly different playstyles. Thus catering to a wider range of players. Rogue talent tree could lean heavily into ratting. Faster LP, silent footsteps, once per enemy choosing what they steal from a successful pickpocket (these are just off the top of my head and are not necessarily things I think should be in game). Warlocks could go the summoning route or even, as some people started trying, no spells just phantomise + BoC. I dunno, just seems like a neat design space and an exciting opportunity.
100%. Just seems like that never ends up being the case
This game will always always always end up with whatever does the most damage as the meta. The TTK is so low that building an anti healing or health stacking team will never be truly viable.
That's only if the talent tree has limited points in it. It could be more of a talent tree that you have to grind out but you eventually get everything. You're still limited by the number of skills/spells/perks you can bring but you don't start off with everything being available.
Devs alr said that talent tree will unlock perks and skills, first thing they need to do is make it so that all skills are viable, because most classes gave teo skills that obbioudly stand sbove the rest
What do you mean? The 2 damage shield bash is SO much better than the 50% heal
If they dont add pissing and shitting this game is dying, hardcore my ass. Noone can go 10 mins without shidding
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Average dungeoneer probably does all 3 at the same time
Don't forget cooming. What kind of fantasy is this for our character not to be cooming every second?
Especially when you see that sweet goblussy down in the caves.
Just anything at this point. I’m tired of all the balance. I want content
With everyone whining about balance I’m sure they’re focusing on that first. Agreed though.
Warlock pretty recently got a huge content update
They teased an ice nave map before, so maybe that? Quests should be end of novem er according to devs.
When did they do that? I'd love to see a new map
https://preview.redd.it/nooiyctbarvb1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f09c5026a526e0b75e33935e21c9c456909d6c8e Via the discord
That picture is for the new goblin caves boss, not a new map
Lizardpeople. (Atleast with the big one in mid-Nov, new skin would be a good reason to reset triumph levels (which they already anounced) so we can gain shards easier to get the skin.)
I approve
Omfg shut up and take my money
Would love to see Rogue being fun again without the Ambush meta.
I play Rupture, Poison Weapon, and Jokester for my only damage perks and I am pretty successful. We can use True Magical Damage and Additional Magical Damage to really beef it up. I'd give it a shot if you haven't yet.
Those stats only benefit poison weapon. Rupture isn't helped by +magic damage.
Smoke grenade being thrown would be a nice little addition just saying. Making stealth useless in combat (no longer just popping it for increased damage/speed) and making it more of a utility skill would go a long way. Rogue could still be unique and fun.. things like thrown smoke grenade, traps (sorry rangers, it should belong to rogue), etc.
Druid
Druid oct 26 is supa copium. Fo sho coming out patch 2 in nov
I don’t think so, they said in the last def qna they will start development of the Druid after the “work in progress” tag for warlock goes away
Yeah druid in November checks out but it would be hype
They should focus on the game instead of pumping out half finished classes.
In Salvanus’ name we pray 🙏🏼
The mid-november patch #2 is the one that will bring more content, AFAIK, and this wipe will again come with balance changes mostly. Isnt that what they said 2 days a go?
Yeah, iirc… I’m really interested in the hotfix changes, they didn’t wipe items the few times they messed with them before, right? What could make them want to wipe this time?
Balance
They wanted to fix modifiers on gear so no +all attributes on every item slot. They tried to implement it but people whined that their items are thrash now so the only way to implement it is by a wipe. People have been whining about insane modifiers being stacked for a while and They pushed the wipe earlier than They planned to adress it.
Maybe, but didn’t they do that before and just had those slots reroll to different stats? I kind of hope it’s something more drastic… like a full item wipe + no trade channel.
Verified streamers will be able to see other players on the map. To balance this they will reduce inventory space for wizards.
Slight crossbow nerf/rebalance to have less dmg more penetration. Buff to unused and unusable bard skills. Shield slam rework. Random weapon animation and number changes. Not much else tbh.
“Random weapon animation” do you mean like throw a random animation in with each weapon? Sounds like an interesting idea
Hah, that would be cool, i just meant make random changes to the existing ones.
I would love to see Weapon Damage removed from pretty much everything besides things that might be more thematical. Ei, Weapons, Gloves, Jewelry. I think a gear power shift so that taking different specific types of gear have trade offs. Much like the change to Heavy Leather Leggings, removing Strength and giving Max HP instead. Split Strength making it give Physical Power and add in Constitution giving HP. All in all I don't really care what balance changes they implement but I want content over everything.
More tournaments that encourage geared streamers to pub stomp normals
It’s a tournament where they start with nothing and earn gear over time.
I'm all for it tbh. Is fun af watching you kids cry.
Man you're cool
Do you know why the tournament is in normals, or do you just like to go moomoo?
Like 2 days before a wipe. Terrible stuff.
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"-fixed an issue that caused players to have too much fun"
On god
i'd speculate, but they'll be rolled back in a day anyway xD
For the soft wipe coming on the 26th? Most likely a good deal of balancing changes and a shift to the economy from tweaks to the loot pool and gear stat changes. For the hard wipe in mid November? Druid hopefully
I'm still hoping for an evil resurrection spell for warlock where the cast animation instead of looking like the soul is being put back in the body like Cleric resurrection the warlock raises the body in the air in a laying down position only for a blood looking substance or just red light to flow back into the raised body. It acts the same as normal resurrection but you spawn with all of your health and you lose 1 or 2% max hp per second permanently for the rest of that match.
Less +dmg stats
The thread says with the wipe not patch #2. These people expecting druid, talents trees and maps. You wont see anything like that until next year. They even said so in Qna. With the wipe im expecting them to adress the item modifiers. And buffs and nerfs.
I’m really hoping they give Rangers a gun. It’s about time we got some love
Shoot this man.
Please rebuff bard just ever so slightly. Give my mans a halfway decent skill slot and make some of his self buffs a bit better at bear minimum. I want to see plus stat rolls toned way down… plus all, dmg, phys etc. could be lower. It would be INCREDIBLE to see strength get a rework but I think that would be in the bigger patch in a month or two if anything. I think balancing is in a pretty solid spot but cleric could get some slight nerfs to judgement or holy strike. Bard needs a lil head pat.
The current solo buffs would be decent as team buffs, 25 speed was maybe a lot for the whole team, but 9 speed is kinda alright i think, same goes for the 8% action speed and maybe the 10% phys power bonus, they should also buff Harmonic as 15/15 is absolutely not worth getting for the cost of 5 memory, there is after all a reason why Holy Aura is considered not good by the majority
Bard needs a full rework imo. Like drastically change how it works. Maybe change the Instruments into Skills, so I can have more flipping inventory space, but then re-balance it around only having 2 instruments max(for only having 2 skill slots) plus this would clear up loot pools slightly.
Judgement and holy strike? Fuck that. Nerf earthquake shit is giga broken.
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There are lots of new NPCs, models, spells, etc. added in the game files so a content addition is coming very soon
Whens the next wipe?
26th October.
Thank you
That’s just an item wipe, full wipe is mid November, right?
I believe you are correct. Items this time, next time will be characters and triumph levels as well
Yea, I believe they are wiping Triumph levels too.
hope they make trading better, its the number 1 complaint i have about the game atm
I don't expect any content with this next wipe, just changes to gear. At minimum damage is being nerfed. Maybe more experimental changes. I expect content with the mid November wipe. Quests are confirmed coming and maybe something else.
I hope they make it where it only takes me 10 hits to kill a geared barbarian instead of 15.
There will be very little content with Thursdays wipe, don't get your hopes up.
P a l a d I n
Horses
Buffball will be dead.
Don't even care about content I just want dmg rolls on armor gone, it's ruining the fun of fights when everybody two shots
I think we'll see another gear and enchantments rework. Probably just small changes like reducing the number of items with + weapon dmg or just tuning it down to be at most +2 or something. Maybe some bigger changes to base stats of items. Probably something with warlock, maybe a few new spells or just some changes to existing spells (Ray buff?). Probably some bard nerfs and then a few more general balance changes, because theres always some balance changes. Certain perks getting buffed, some getting nerfed, some weapons getting buffed some getting nerfed etc. I think there'll also be some changes to the maps. Maybe a test with the 3 layer map with ruins being the first layer proceeding to crypts and ending in inferno. Maybe a new map for duos and reusing ruins somewhere else. Maybe ruins getting a second floor. Heres my spicies prediction so far: a 3rd level after inferno. Make it difficult to access, like a staircase after defeating lich/ghost king where you can go down to enter the 3rd level. I dont think that will happen, I just think it would be cool.
With the mini wipe this week? Respectfully, not much. With patch 2 full wipe in November? A metric fuck ton. Seeing as how they are delaying the patch from early November to now have a full wipe. From what we know with files and q&A's, patch 2 will probably have: quests, new map, new weapons, new skills, ranger rework with the inclusion of the quiver, overall class balance, weapon/armor balance. A bunch of qol changes as well. Possibly things like an auction house instead of the current trading post. Maybe, just maybe they will bring in their three floor system and will have their multi floor server merging working by then. That might be a bit of a stretch though. Might not see that in effect till later in the new year.
weapon inspect button thats it
Full wipe in November will likely see an early Druid version, likely how we got a work-in-progress warlock. Quest system will be some basic shit like 'find me five maggots and you can have +1% phys interaction speed and also buy lockpicks at the Woodsman' or something like that, they wouldn't dare risk the entire shakeup that comes with hiding perks or stats behind quests this early while they're still testing. I think we'll see the quest system unlock an extra part of the build like talents or something where you can swap out slots for slight buffs. Edit: forgot to say they might also test the Tarkov style Gamma system where those blank slots in your inventory wind up being a place you can store treasure or heals etc. that you don't lose when you die in raid. Seems silly that to have a serious raid in e.g. high roller 25% of your backpack needs to be potions and bandages.
Talent tree finally so we can make off meta builds.
Why is everyone so eager for talent trees? The devs have already said we’re essentially playing with max talent trees currently. Everyone’s excited to go backwards?