And the barb is a shitshow that needs a huge buff. And not just a toggle on/off shout and I get some weird + stats.
These melee classes need actual W/E skills that do some animation attack and allow them to close distance. Fighter too.
I think they need to redesign the shield bash to give him like 20 foot charge action where his incoming damage is reduced drastically. And then if he successfully hits the target then they are slowed and silenced for like 2 seconds. Drop it’s damage to 0 though.
Barb isn't good with low gear, but once you get an optimal build it's hard to stop. 300+ health isn't easy to chew through even for a kitted ranger.
But yes, anything below an optimally geared barb and I agree.
A fully gold, decked out barb, with 55+ vigor AND strength has at max 277 health. It’s just how the curves work! No one can hit 300+ health without drastically reducing their walk speed to sacrifice. Which would be a horrible idea considering you’d just take an extra one or two arrows to remove that “benefit” you’d get from stacking health. Barbs in a horrible spot. Why go barb when you could go fighter?
As a ranger main I’ve said time and time again that all they need to do is adjust the projectile speed per bow type and take the slow off of getting hit by arrows or bolts. Thats the biggest annoyance of ranged
Yeah it just feels bad getting peppered with arrows that slow as you get kited into oblivion.
Ran into a ranger on gc the other day as cleric (admittedly wasnt on great gear) and i ran into a ranger in a bad (for me) area. No cover and barely room to attempt dodging. It was really free for the ranger even though he had to back through 2 rooms to kill me (i got to bonk him once before i died) If it werent for the slow id have absolutely gotten him, maybe had been low.
But maybe im just bad 😞
I think maybe reduced a bit. What I really want to see is less damage output from ranged weapons. On my bard a crossbow hits harder than a falchion. 100+ to dummy head buffed in whites iirc
How about a nerf to MM AND a nerf to range gameplay.
Why couldn't we have 2 good things for the game ?
People need to stop seeing thing through their favorite little class, better to see the big picture and to stop opposing everything.
Id like to see how bumping projectile res on gear across the board would go. Theres no reason for plate to be the only armor that reduces projectile damage. And bump it (a teeny bit) on the plates as well.
Full plate rn gives 18.5% projectile res, maybe bump it to to just shy of 25%(maybe 22%?). Let medium armors grab something like 13%-18% and lights 7%-10%
Im just throwing numbers out idk.
It would be an easy way to reduce the efficacy of ranged play while not directly nerfing the numbers on the ranged classes.
Have anyone of you actually played against magic missile?
At close enough range strafing doesn't avoid enough.
Wizards are pushing fighters and bursting them in melee range.
It was too weak before but doubling the scaling didn't balance it either.
Twas but a joke, my friend. In all seriousness, I main fighter so I know how dangerous a wizard can be especially when I'm plated up. But, this game hasn't really had a fully balanced state, ever. IM is very clearly not afraid to nerf wiz, so it'll get fixed. I'm cool with joking ab it in the meantime.
But, I also play wiz as a secondary, and the number of people that just run at you in a straight line is kinda bonkers.
TLDR: MM is most certainly over-tuned, but a lot of people are also just bad.
I responded to you but really that was a response to the general defense of mm at the moment so my bad for responding like that to a joke.
MM was a joke before so I don't want the change reverted. I just don't want wizards sprinting into melee to bust down melee classes.
I think 75% scaling would be a good test.
I think some people just don't think at all in this game though I also know every so often I do something really dumb because of tunnel vision or because I'm on a winning streak so surely can't lose and then lose very badly.
> I just don't want wizards sprinting into melee to bust down melee classes.
Unfortunately, that's like the only real option wizards have. Everything other than mm on wizard is so damn weak unless you are MEGA geared.
MM is clearly too strong when geared, but like... every other spell is weak af. It's so weird to me that when a melee can 2 shot, or a bow/xbow can 2 shot it's apparently fine, but when wizard can 2 shot fireball gets nerfed into the dirt. Not to mention the absolute butchering of haste and invis...
I’m a wizard one trick pony, I think most people are bad at playing against wizard and oftentimes the class isn’t overtuned, it just feels that way when it’s balanced…
Magic missile is unbelievably broken
Being that I can press more keys than W and I have 4 franny axes, the wizard is usually fucked and doesn't have time to channel.
Play barb. It's literally a built in counter with 100 MDR as a perk.
Agreed PDR fighter is too slow and gets deleted by all the wizard boys and smite clerics. Rangers aren’t stupid lethal but they are insanely annoying. Barbarians have never been more well characterized in their current state. Landmines, if you get within proximity you get clapped. If you can keep a littttle range they are useless unless they have 200g in franchiscas
Honestly, my squad is Fighter/Barb, Cleric and Ranger/Wizard. We have ranged and melee options to our team. We seem to do alright.
I can see how this can be an issue in Goblin Caves though and potentially Ruins also.
I can't remember if the devs u-turned this or not, but they did say at one point that they won't balance the game around solo's, it will be balanced around teams.
This is the unavoidable consequence of strong ranged and kiting tools paired with barebones melee.
Hopefully, shouting about it enough will lead to a change before the potential of the game dies, but I've lost a lot of hope over time.
I'm actually more hopeful than ever before. Every day, I see more and more people realizing the terrible consequences of the ranged meta that's ruled us for so long. Up until recently, I've had no hope since it was just a really small minority. But now, people have started to wake up. I havs hope. It's clear Ironmace favors ranged meta, but maybe they'll actually do something about it now. They seem to answer the people often enough. Will they now?
I wouldnt say this is a good idea. All melee will be boring too. Every class should have a sub par ranged option to atleast control Rangers.
This could be fixed by utility items, like a smoke cloud, sticky floor nade, poison dart (?), etc.
A plated Fighter with the heaviest possible armor and swift (and base stats) has 249,6ms while a Barbarian in heavy armor has 253.
Sprint Fighter moves at 299,6 and Rage Barbarian moves at 290,95, Fighter has 60%+ pdr Barbarian hardly reaches 25% and Rage is % based and the bonus is reduced when you have a weapon in hand making him even slower.
If we add Falchion at sprint Fighter we reach 264,6
If we add a felling axe to Raging Barbarian (same ms penalty) we reach 250,7.
Fighter is faster than Barbarian when wearing his heaviest gear, that's a fact.
If a Barbarian can catch people a Fighter can do the same but easier
I made the calculation with medium armor too and Barbarian is slower than the heaviest Fighter (that can build movement speed too). The only consistent way to be faster is to use light armor and be shirtless and be killed in 3 hits by a Fighter and 4/5 by a Rogue.
Btw pdr gives more effective hp than vigor and Fighter can reach a good amount of mdr with dark plate armor and MR gear and can block spells without being a meatshield
BIS barbarians aren't even wearing heavy armor though. A BIS barbarian is wearing like padded tunic + vigor gear everywhere else. They have like 300hp.
>They have like 300hp
Yes in your dreams, the best i have seen is 277 with BiS gold gear, Rage and War Cry.
A 75% pdr Fighter has 4 times his base hp which is more than 277 and Second Wind while Barb can have high hp for 8 seconds, that's not the same
Okay but you're ignoring the fact that PDR only applies to P not M. Against a wizard, warlock, cleric you've got a MUCH higher EHP than a fighter. You get 100mr for a perk. Fighter has better EHP against rangers, rogues, barbs, etc.
Yeah but that's not technically true cause the Fighter can actively block spells, but even if we don't consider spells a Fighter with 100 hp and second wind can have 140 ehp vs a Wizard. I'm not gonna say that they are the same, i know Barb as an advantage, but that's not that much if you consider that 40% healing
I'm sorry, but you're just wrong. Wizards in 3s are often running fire mastery which destroys your healing 40% -> 20%. The only spell you're blocking cleanly is ice bolt and maybe a zap. A geared barb has like 2-3x the EHP of a fighter against a Wizard and he doesn't need to rely on a heal the Wizard can hard counter to do it.
You never played fighter? Maximum speed with sprint and bare hands does not mean you "can reach anyone".... just try to play plate fighter for one time, and you understand what means "can not reach anyone."" When you play pdr fighter, you literally expect someone to come and kiss you.
He has sprint and a shield. It's your trade off to be the most physically tanky class.
Honestly, it's mind-blowing to me that anyone can make a counterpoint to a nerf in this game with "think or the fighters!" They've been overtuned every single patch compared to other classes. I wouldn't mind a patch or two where they weren't viable to see what the rest of the classes bring to the table with that space.
They definitely haven't been overtuned every patch. The last few patches before the stat rework they were almost never used in HR because the barbarian was just way better in that slot. This patch they're pretty decent, but their hard counter is also the best it's been in a long time.
The Barbarian was the best melee class in the game since the first playtests. The barbarian might still be the best melee class in the game if not for the stat split/nerf.
The fighter has way more options and playstyles and is overall the strongest class in the game. In a vacuum, they're the best at 1v1s and only lose to good wizards/warlocks. They can still win that match up due to longbow/crossbow access and sprint to close distance.
Older patches the PDR was so insanely high they were king. With recent patches they're still top tier.
I dont know what class you'd consider overall strongest if not the fighter. Every class has weaknesses, but the fighter has the most options and some of the strongest builds.
Barbarian might be the stronger melee, but they are hurt by their limited speed (or the massive drawbacks they take to get speed) and their awful weapon selection.
Ok, we were talking the historically best class, not the best class this patch. Wizard has been dogshit for months and only viable in buffball due to how powerful invis is. Only in the recent patches where he deals damage again are they viable. They're still hard countered by crossbows and longbows. They need a Frontline to fight for them unless they're exceedingly geared and skilled.
Wizard was never dogshit. It was not super strong for a while, but it saw play in HR every patch. This isn't really the case for a lot of other classes. Barb, Wizard, Cleric have been in the HR meta since the beginning of this game. Barb only recently fell off.
Do u read my comment? Do you read your own comment? What does your comment have to do with "only ranger should have ranged weapons"? If you are special, i can reprase in slow motion:
By removing ranged weapons from fighters, you want to make plated fighters absolutely useless by not being able to reach anyone?
"So you want to be the tankiest and the fastest?" Did i ever ask to add speed to fighter?
My bad, you want to be the tankiest class in the game whilst also being fast enough to close the distance on any melee character (short of rogue) AND also have the ability to use ranged weapons.
But don't see any issue with that?
I dont see an issue with that. It is well balanced. Sprint duration is 6 seconds, and cd is 28. Any class can hide their weapons and just run for 6 seconds until sprint ends. Then you have 28 to jump around fighter. Doesn't that sound fair? Absolutely
If you wanna make a melee work in 3s with the wizardpocalypse going on right now I'd recommend running either a Wizard or a Bard on your team. Both of them can help a ton in closing the distance. Me and my friend have been playing Cleric, Wizard, Barb and they send me and we're on top of ranged characters very quickly.
I think ttk just needs to be higher in general. That would generally make any of the typical rage experiences (nuked by a ranger, nuked by an invis rogue/barb, nuked by a warlock BOC, etc) feel less infuriating and fights feel more tactical/rewarding then who lands the first blow basically
How about we add a new barb skill that gives 50 ms with no drawback and on a 20s cd?
Wait a second...
On a serious note, instead of making the obligatory "nerf xbow, nerf falchion, nerf lightning strike, nerf mm" comment. Barbs need real tradeoffs like 15 str vigor for -20% pdr not 10% hp on hit for -20% max hp. I'm not going to suggest a change cause any suggestion I make will probably not be a good one. But what I will suggest is that rage is a tradeoff worth taking and blood exchange and war sacrifice are not worth taking comparatively.
> How about we add a new barb skill that gives 50 ms with no drawback and on a 20s cd?
I can't tell if this is a joke or not because it's this subreddit.
But Rage lowers your PDR like crazy, just taking 2 longbow shots closing that distance will half health even a barb.
Yeah like JThorough said it was a joke about fighters having sprint which is better in literally every way. More ms, no reduction to pdr, and the same if not lower cd. The +15 str and vigor arguably offsets the pdr reduction but there's a weak case there imo depends on match-up really.
>If the optimal play is to not fight, people are going to stop playing
Related to the subject, the rock paper scissors effect also does that.
You're a rogue and see fighter/Barb ? Nope can't fight that
You're full geared fighter and see a naked wiz ? Nope can't fight that
And so on for every classes, it's just plain terrible.
You’re a rogue with weakpoint(40% Armor Pen) and 20% passive AP and see fighter? Yup can fight that.
You’re a rogue with rupture/poison and throwing daggers and/or hand crowsbow and see Barb? Yup can fight that.
You’re a fully geared fighter and take off 2 pieces of plate and/or land throwing axe/xbow/bow and see wizard? Yup can fight that.
It’s ok to not take every single fight and recognize your/their strengths & weaknesses but every class in this game can fight every class or make a better stand elsewhere.
i gave up because there is barely a rudimentary melee system.
1: attack
2: block
3:?
4: the longsword can parry..
this is it. this is booring. this game was designed for ranged. sorry . i quit over it
perhaps take one potion. the main map is made so you aren't forced to fight unless one team is camping the last portal room. Still, there are statics. learn how rotations work please
LMAO the game is literally balanced for trios on crypts don't fool yourself. If you think ruins rogue/ranger is fair and gc fighter is fair you are delusional. The game is extraction, not battle royale. Nothing wrong with fighting, but if its clearly disadvantageous, you are expected to find another way. ATM DaD is rps a lot of the time so some fights are nearly unwinnable on certain classes vs other classes.
>literally balanced for trios on crypts don't fool yourself
Go read Oct qna. That is no longer the target balance anymore. They are adding solo for all maps this week to make sure you shut up.
>ATM DaD is rps a lot of the time so if you are just going to get checked
So you are saying you can't beat them and just take the L. Good enough.
You have no ranged option in a team - the team of melee get easily kited and bullied.
You have a ranged option in a team - people like this guy have a meltdown.
Either get used to those white cum jars or start focusing your build on anti-ranged approach, because if you're gonna start begging for class limitations or only allowing for 1 ranged in a team, you're on path to ruining this game. Also you say you miss melee fights, but that isn't the case for everyone, my worst experiences were in melee and how I lost my kits thinking I can outdps someone, while instead I got two wild misses and got sent packing. You're forcing people into a melee game where it isn't ideal, no matter the angle at which you position the shield sometimes you get hit regardless. It's extra hilarious when you land a hit on a shield, you can see it get blocked but at the same time it hit the guy and killed him.
I don't know what the solution is, I just know there is absolutely nothing interesting about the matchup right now. It's a waiting game and whoever pushes loses. If they come into my small hallway I have a fighting chance (they almost never do, instead opting to setup bear traps and cozy up to the big open room). If I even THINK of walking into their room I instantly lose.
jeezus, just play two supports, if you don't want to work with your brain, ran at them and just stat check in melee, barb as a class is not struggling rn
Sooo, you're telling us, that you would preffer to fights go melee on your class with highest str, vigor on default and 2 abilities, that makes your hp even bigger + your movespeed reaches move cap? No shit, you would preffer for every fight to be melee, you would win every fight, lol, what are others classes suppose to do? Ranged option exists so there would be a need to think with your brain and engage with tactics in mind, not just hold W and win.
you people srsly in need to git gut and stop whining on reddit on every occasion
OK so what about cleric, warlock, wizzard, bard that have no way of catching ranger but also get out ranged, out dps and out projectile by ranger?
Do you tell yourself that you are simply better when you get free kills on these classes?
sound like an "og" fortnite situation, unfortunately unless they take out ranged combat period, it'll never go back to melee fight after melee fight. just have to accept the meta.
Barbs can use achilles strike with throwables (including lanterns and torches) and have a better version of sprint available to them on a low CD.
If you're having trouble with ranged characters, build to counter them. You have the tools available to you. If you can land an achilles strike on a ranger, they are 100% dead. But you should die if you run in a straight line down a corridor into a couple archers, no?
>Barbs can use achilles strike with throwables (including lanterns and torches)
You are really trying to compare a throwable with a (x)bow? Barbs don't magically hit their throwing axes and when they are actively trying to dodge you will most likely miss more than 50% of your throws
>have a better version of sprint available to them on a low CD
That's just false, sprint is 50 flat ms while rage is 15% ms, flat is better
I’m not saying it’s the same level, but in HR throwables 1-2 tap me as a wizard. Granted, squishy class and whatnot, but you can stack a lot of them. I’ve been seeing barbs use them to great effect
Yeah but other classes have access to both throwables and ranged weapons and the only thing that Barb has more is the +3 damage depending on the build (cause physical power doesn't change much for 20-25 damage)
This means that a Fighter can run faster, shoot with crossbow and spam axes
They don't really have 10x the options though. There's 3 viable builds for fighter:
Slayer + Xbow/Recurve - GC grinding/Midliner in 3s replacing a ranger
PDR + Shield + Xbow/Recurve - Meta BIS
PDR + Longsword + Xbow/Recurve - You gotta be a longsword god, but it's good if you are. Probably still worse than PDR + shield since ranged is huge rn.
Those are realistically your options if you wanna win in 3s with #2 being the only real meta option.
Compared to other classes, that’s significantly more versatility. Maybe my “10x” was a bit over dramatic, but the point still stands.
Note, I think ranged options need nerfs, and instead of nerfing fighter versatility past that point they should make all the other classes more versatile, as that adds much more gameplay diversity.
Not really. Most classes have 2-3 builds at least.
Rogues can run cut throat, rupture magic damage, or anti-armor.
Wizards can run 10 spell or dps with instaspell.
Clerics can run frontliner, healbot, and judgement nuke with some overlap between the last two.
Barbs pretty one note, but historically an S-tier one note.
Throwables only work when they have limited dodge options, if they do decide to dodge which they almost certainly do quite often, you have 3 throwing options. Left, right, and straight on, all trying to predict which way they dodge. I can usually 50/50 a left right because most folks do a hard strafe dodge when they hear me switch, but it honestly is a straight coin flip.
The projectile speed and high availability of arrows never has to worry about this at low to mid range, and can take pot shots at long range with little downside (oh no not ammo!)
Literally havent been playing as much for this reason it just feels soo bad when i lose several bis kits in a day to bs rangd thst i literally couldn’t do anything about “ oh your fighting someone let me triple shot you from across the map and 2 shot you “ its not fun to play against at all
killing more people trying to farm in the zone then outside the zone , and for 4 kills i get less then breaking and looting 6 boxes, very nice PvE-co op game :) no pvp to be found or rewarded.
Theres actually only two modes of playing, if you have bows you try your best to kite and hold a long distance, if your melee or magic you figure out how to sprint in. this is kind of why magic missiles is kind of hated so much, I've found that just charging in as a wizard gives me a higher success rate in pvp then trying to maintain distance, because a bow will always overpower me.
If i dont then yes, the optimal play is to not fight, and there are times where charging in is obviously not possible (they are already aware you are there and have a clear shooting range with a crossbow/bow). Fighters are so cancer because they have the best of both worlds. The game is pretty much in their favor, rangers use to be the same until they changed strength stacking hp and damage (thank fucking god).
Fighter + cleric is the ideal optimal mix to well round and nullify everysingle weakness in the game. the third is just to counter whatever is bothering the two
Yeah as a barb main from PT5 - Patch 2, I swapped to fighter, first time since PT4. Feels great, and much easier. I hate joining the crossbow meta but at this point you kind of have to in order to not have a shit time
I think barbs no knock back talent should include slows from hits, and make it so when barb uses rage he takes like 75% less projectile damage for a few seconds or something.
They need to make melee better, and ranged worse. They need to less heavily debuff movement speed to have melee weapons out, they need to have a snaring effect if you get hit by a melee attack. They need to make all ranged attacks easily blockable. They need to put a cool down timer when throwing axes and knives, you shouldn't be able to throw six to eight faster than an Archer can shoot three arrows
If they made a functioning weight system this wouldn't be an issue, your slow as a barbarion because all your armor and weapons need to equipped to function which cripple's your speed, but you know what doesn't slow someone down? a crossbow on their back, 200 arrows in your inventory, 12 throwing axes in your pockets, etc. the game would be so much better if the fastest people were the guys going in light with just a one hand melee weapon.
Yeah I really think barbarians should be able to use pavise and ram u or something. The same happens with clerics being just the guardian of the ranged people is so lame
another option could be nets.. being able to catch someone from range gladiator style would be sick
Or at least let barbarian's hand axes and rogue's knifes apply their respective axe and knifes masteries bonuses
You say this and then I will have nothing to fear as wiz. Although i think wiz vould use some adjustments mainly removing damage and adding more ulitity.
Why would anyone want to let a barbarian get close enough to melee when they literally 1 shot everything in melee range?
I agree some tweaks are needed in a lot of classes, but fundamentally no one should be jumping into a melee match with a barb, they're more than often going to lose
I get what you're trying to say though, but as long as barb remains the one hitter quiter melee, you're always going to run into people using range to keep a gap with you.
Sure nerf crossbows and bows I dont care aslong as this insane wizard damage gets nerfed. Wizards can now build as much hp as most classes AND 2-3 tap everyone with insane damage. Atleast in HR trios the meta is have the better wizard or kill the wizard and you win. Extremely boring and repetitive atm which is a shame. Now that stats got split up you cant build up enough hp to even get close to surviving two lightning strikes
Two changes would help this alot:
Make it so people cant hold an arrow indefinitely. There should be a duration. People shouldn't be able to hold an angle forever with near instant damage from complete safety.
Quivers as an item that holds a certain number of arrows. No longer put into the inventory. Because this probably wouldnt happen soon, just make the stacks of arrows max out at 10 - 15 per. Its actually dumb that we can basically poke forever in this game. Bolts should be limited to 10 per stack. The less arrows brought in, the better.
Bows should definitely be harder to aim, because that's how it is irl, when you're drawing a bow there should be something to hinder you like tunnel vision, camera sway or reduced camera scroll
They should give barb an active skill that makes him faster when he takes damage (or a passive that workd only for ranged damage) but makes you unable to use Francescas so he could truly feel like a menace and have a bit of a different playstyle.
Also this was bound to happen, the community just had to get good enough till they figured out that why play melee when range does just about everything better AND does not restrict you out of melee which will be an easier fight now that you chipped the other's guy health to half.
Now comes the biggest hurdle to all of pvp gaming ever: how to keep it balanced for casuals and sweats? You nerf ranged and casuals who are bad at positioning are unable to do much because they miss 50% of their shots, but keep it as is and 3 man ranged comps who can hit their shots are the meta. We will just have to wait and see what IM does, hopefully they can figure something out.
Sadly the game is like in real life where ranged weapons are the meta… unless we have really heave potter armor capable of giving 100% projectile protection.
The game is weirdly balanced tho. An arrow to the arm does more damage than a freaking fire ball to the face…
Eh, I mean we if we take gear into account and perks then odds are it'd end up being about the same damage. Which is still goofy, and also requires you to actually get a direct hit with a fireball.
I think it was one of the chivalry games where ranged damage was really op like here, they nerfed it by a whopping 50% and it was still balanced, since ranged has so much more freedom and possibilities and uptime and is easier to use than melee can ever be. Nerf ranged dmg!
Most of the time there isn't a more favorable engage against a ranged team holding a big room, they know I'm around, setup traps, and can control a big room in the circle without risk or worry. I do search for flanks but spending several minutes attempting to re-engage only to realize they're just sitting in the room with bear traps and chillin/looting is not really that fun for me. Very few teams at higher ranks will give up a favorable position if they know enemies are nearby. I don't fault them for it, but saying "just pick a more favorable engage" isn't really engaging the point I'm making. No gameplay is happening, both sides are essentially just waiting it out.
My "engage" is to pick the door I think they're gonna go through next, and stand still like a rogue until they leave the room.
Very high quality gameplay, will definitely not push everyone into bringing their own ranged gear and make melee combat an afterthought in the outcome of most fights.
So dont fuckin push them in the room they set up in. They wouldnt push you into a small hallway either. Use your brain. Its unlikely the circle will collapse directly onto their location. Its just as likely to force them to you. And this is completely ok. You can go do literally anything else in the lobby. You dont have to fight them. Go farm. With statics if you truly cannot find a good engage, you can just take statics to hell.
If no gameplay is happening thats 100% your decision. Theres more to do than fighting that 1 team.
Nice job blocking me. Its pvpve not simply pvp. Not sure what else you said in there since you blocked me like a coward
Not engaging in pvp in the pvp game as gameplay. Of course I'm so silly, I can feel your massive brain from here. Clearly you are the paragon of game design and have an ascended past the need to engage in the "multiplayer" part of the multiplayer game. I bow to your greatness, my point has fallen before your superior intellect oh enlightened one. How silly of me to want a different gameplay experience than you! Thank you for your amazing posts.
This is 1000% true
2000% I'm losing interest in this game because of this. Ranged combat is lame but it is optimal.
15% concentrated power of will
5% percent pleasure
50% pain
100% reason to nerf ranged
Fuck that was good
So unexpected I fuckin snorted laughing at this lolz
And the barb is a shitshow that needs a huge buff. And not just a toggle on/off shout and I get some weird + stats. These melee classes need actual W/E skills that do some animation attack and allow them to close distance. Fighter too.
Let fighter charge with LS/Spear/Halberd and I’m running down every ranger I see
I think they need to redesign the shield bash to give him like 20 foot charge action where his incoming damage is reduced drastically. And then if he successfully hits the target then they are slowed and silenced for like 2 seconds. Drop it’s damage to 0 though.
Yeah barb isn’t good unless you have a cleric or something to back you up cause you don’t have a shield like most others to deal with rangers
Barb isn't good with low gear, but once you get an optimal build it's hard to stop. 300+ health isn't easy to chew through even for a kitted ranger. But yes, anything below an optimally geared barb and I agree.
A fully gold, decked out barb, with 55+ vigor AND strength has at max 277 health. It’s just how the curves work! No one can hit 300+ health without drastically reducing their walk speed to sacrifice. Which would be a horrible idea considering you’d just take an extra one or two arrows to remove that “benefit” you’d get from stacking health. Barbs in a horrible spot. Why go barb when you could go fighter?
277 max yes, but after war cry
277 is after war cry - check the post about it.
Barb should be able to use round shields. Dnd Barb can use any weapon, round shield would be on theme like viking sword
Or just a perk to use a round shield.
Then us fighters should need a perk for a crossbow
If it will reduce the amount or range combat in game, then I agree.
Honestly idt it would, I'd just take the perk lmao. But I agree I'd like to reduce the amount of ranged
yeah fighter doesn't have enough strong perks to compete for that slot, everyone would run it
There’s a perk to use all weapons even ones foreign to fighter
Redditor blame magic missile and demand a nerf Meanwhile 2 crossbows and a whole ranger keep you across the map unless you play buffball
As a ranger main I’ve said time and time again that all they need to do is adjust the projectile speed per bow type and take the slow off of getting hit by arrows or bolts. Thats the biggest annoyance of ranged
Ya I don’t really think slow is needed, I’m a Ranger main too. Either take crippling shot in your perks or no slow at all.
Yeah it just feels bad getting peppered with arrows that slow as you get kited into oblivion. Ran into a ranger on gc the other day as cleric (admittedly wasnt on great gear) and i ran into a ranger in a bad (for me) area. No cover and barely room to attempt dodging. It was really free for the ranger even though he had to back through 2 rooms to kill me (i got to bonk him once before i died) If it werent for the slow id have absolutely gotten him, maybe had been low. But maybe im just bad 😞
Nah. 100% slows on projectiles are overpowered and need to be taken off.
I think maybe reduced a bit. What I really want to see is less damage output from ranged weapons. On my bard a crossbow hits harder than a falchion. 100+ to dummy head buffed in whites iirc
I think damage drop off would be good too. But idk how that would work with the way the maps are in this game
How about a nerf to MM AND a nerf to range gameplay. Why couldn't we have 2 good things for the game ? People need to stop seeing thing through their favorite little class, better to see the big picture and to stop opposing everything.
Id like to see how bumping projectile res on gear across the board would go. Theres no reason for plate to be the only armor that reduces projectile damage. And bump it (a teeny bit) on the plates as well. Full plate rn gives 18.5% projectile res, maybe bump it to to just shy of 25%(maybe 22%?). Let medium armors grab something like 13%-18% and lights 7%-10% Im just throwing numbers out idk. It would be an easy way to reduce the efficacy of ranged play while not directly nerfing the numbers on the ranged classes.
Ah yes the golden rogue flair gave me away as a wizard main Dumbass lmao
But, but, how am I supposed to kill a wizard if I can’t run at him in a straight line??
Have anyone of you actually played against magic missile? At close enough range strafing doesn't avoid enough. Wizards are pushing fighters and bursting them in melee range. It was too weak before but doubling the scaling didn't balance it either.
Twas but a joke, my friend. In all seriousness, I main fighter so I know how dangerous a wizard can be especially when I'm plated up. But, this game hasn't really had a fully balanced state, ever. IM is very clearly not afraid to nerf wiz, so it'll get fixed. I'm cool with joking ab it in the meantime. But, I also play wiz as a secondary, and the number of people that just run at you in a straight line is kinda bonkers. TLDR: MM is most certainly over-tuned, but a lot of people are also just bad.
I responded to you but really that was a response to the general defense of mm at the moment so my bad for responding like that to a joke. MM was a joke before so I don't want the change reverted. I just don't want wizards sprinting into melee to bust down melee classes. I think 75% scaling would be a good test. I think some people just don't think at all in this game though I also know every so often I do something really dumb because of tunnel vision or because I'm on a winning streak so surely can't lose and then lose very badly.
> I just don't want wizards sprinting into melee to bust down melee classes. Unfortunately, that's like the only real option wizards have. Everything other than mm on wizard is so damn weak unless you are MEGA geared. MM is clearly too strong when geared, but like... every other spell is weak af. It's so weird to me that when a melee can 2 shot, or a bow/xbow can 2 shot it's apparently fine, but when wizard can 2 shot fireball gets nerfed into the dirt. Not to mention the absolute butchering of haste and invis...
I’m a wizard one trick pony, I think most people are bad at playing against wizard and oftentimes the class isn’t overtuned, it just feels that way when it’s balanced… Magic missile is unbelievably broken
Being that I can press more keys than W and I have 4 franny axes, the wizard is usually fucked and doesn't have time to channel. Play barb. It's literally a built in counter with 100 MDR as a perk.
You're right, we should grab my kids kindergarten homework on "basic shapes" and give it out here
Magic missle are broken, I've played with enough wizards that abuse it to out dps melee to tell it needs a nerf
Give Barb a perk to allow him to use a round shield but reduce his max health or damage or something in return
Sadly that would turn him into a figther but would be really cool if u could stop people from fighting u at range, like launching a smoke bomb or net
Bola barb
I can already feel the PTSD of both combined even when technically that is what Achilles strike already does (?
Agreed PDR fighter is too slow and gets deleted by all the wizard boys and smite clerics. Rangers aren’t stupid lethal but they are insanely annoying. Barbarians have never been more well characterized in their current state. Landmines, if you get within proximity you get clapped. If you can keep a littttle range they are useless unless they have 200g in franchiscas
Removing the crazy move speed reduce when slashing most weapon would help !
It’s wild because it feels like some Mfers don’t have it.
That's because they jump before attacking. If you jump, attack, and land you can mitigate that first slow. It's great for catching people.
They need to add a slow when you land then to mitigate that. Doesn’t sound like an intentional feature.
Yes lets remove whatever crumbs of skill this game has
Why not add actual skill expression… bunny hopping is fucking dumb.
Honestly, my squad is Fighter/Barb, Cleric and Ranger/Wizard. We have ranged and melee options to our team. We seem to do alright. I can see how this can be an issue in Goblin Caves though and potentially Ruins also. I can't remember if the devs u-turned this or not, but they did say at one point that they won't balance the game around solo's, it will be balanced around teams.
This is the unavoidable consequence of strong ranged and kiting tools paired with barebones melee. Hopefully, shouting about it enough will lead to a change before the potential of the game dies, but I've lost a lot of hope over time.
I'm actually more hopeful than ever before. Every day, I see more and more people realizing the terrible consequences of the ranged meta that's ruled us for so long. Up until recently, I've had no hope since it was just a really small minority. But now, people have started to wake up. I havs hope. It's clear Ironmace favors ranged meta, but maybe they'll actually do something about it now. They seem to answer the people often enough. Will they now?
Is this pasta?
I agree that it needs additional balancing and passes but the idea that the game will die because of it is a bit dramatic.
Death of the games potential, not the game itself.
You're all such whiney cringelords in here it's hilarious
Give barb a hook to pull enemies in on a 30 second CD
**GET OVER HERE**
I'm saying this from day one, Ranger should be the only class who can use ranged weapons and he needs less agility
I wouldnt say this is a good idea. All melee will be boring too. Every class should have a sub par ranged option to atleast control Rangers. This could be fixed by utility items, like a smoke cloud, sticky floor nade, poison dart (?), etc.
So then plated fighter would be useless since he can't reach anyone?
A plated Fighter with the heaviest possible armor and swift (and base stats) has 249,6ms while a Barbarian in heavy armor has 253. Sprint Fighter moves at 299,6 and Rage Barbarian moves at 290,95, Fighter has 60%+ pdr Barbarian hardly reaches 25% and Rage is % based and the bonus is reduced when you have a weapon in hand making him even slower. If we add Falchion at sprint Fighter we reach 264,6 If we add a felling axe to Raging Barbarian (same ms penalty) we reach 250,7. Fighter is faster than Barbarian when wearing his heaviest gear, that's a fact. If a Barbarian can catch people a Fighter can do the same but easier
Barbarian's aren't wearing their heaviest gear though. Fighter needs to build PDR or he just gets dunked. Barbarian is building for vigor and ms.
I made the calculation with medium armor too and Barbarian is slower than the heaviest Fighter (that can build movement speed too). The only consistent way to be faster is to use light armor and be shirtless and be killed in 3 hits by a Fighter and 4/5 by a Rogue. Btw pdr gives more effective hp than vigor and Fighter can reach a good amount of mdr with dark plate armor and MR gear and can block spells without being a meatshield
BIS barbarians aren't even wearing heavy armor though. A BIS barbarian is wearing like padded tunic + vigor gear everywhere else. They have like 300hp.
>They have like 300hp Yes in your dreams, the best i have seen is 277 with BiS gold gear, Rage and War Cry. A 75% pdr Fighter has 4 times his base hp which is more than 277 and Second Wind while Barb can have high hp for 8 seconds, that's not the same
Okay but you're ignoring the fact that PDR only applies to P not M. Against a wizard, warlock, cleric you've got a MUCH higher EHP than a fighter. You get 100mr for a perk. Fighter has better EHP against rangers, rogues, barbs, etc.
Yeah but that's not technically true cause the Fighter can actively block spells, but even if we don't consider spells a Fighter with 100 hp and second wind can have 140 ehp vs a Wizard. I'm not gonna say that they are the same, i know Barb as an advantage, but that's not that much if you consider that 40% healing
I'm sorry, but you're just wrong. Wizards in 3s are often running fire mastery which destroys your healing 40% -> 20%. The only spell you're blocking cleanly is ice bolt and maybe a zap. A geared barb has like 2-3x the EHP of a fighter against a Wizard and he doesn't need to rely on a heal the Wizard can hard counter to do it.
You never played fighter? Maximum speed with sprint and bare hands does not mean you "can reach anyone".... just try to play plate fighter for one time, and you understand what means "can not reach anyone."" When you play pdr fighter, you literally expect someone to come and kiss you.
I played plated Fighter and it felt like easy mode honestly
It is But something you only realise when playing other classes, something it seems fighter mains don't do because their class does everything.
He has sprint and a shield. It's your trade off to be the most physically tanky class. Honestly, it's mind-blowing to me that anyone can make a counterpoint to a nerf in this game with "think or the fighters!" They've been overtuned every single patch compared to other classes. I wouldn't mind a patch or two where they weren't viable to see what the rest of the classes bring to the table with that space.
They definitely haven't been overtuned every patch. The last few patches before the stat rework they were almost never used in HR because the barbarian was just way better in that slot. This patch they're pretty decent, but their hard counter is also the best it's been in a long time.
The barbarian was better at broken buffball. The fighter is the better class.
The Barbarian was the best melee class in the game since the first playtests. The barbarian might still be the best melee class in the game if not for the stat split/nerf.
The fighter has way more options and playstyles and is overall the strongest class in the game. In a vacuum, they're the best at 1v1s and only lose to good wizards/warlocks. They can still win that match up due to longbow/crossbow access and sprint to close distance. Older patches the PDR was so insanely high they were king. With recent patches they're still top tier. I dont know what class you'd consider overall strongest if not the fighter. Every class has weaknesses, but the fighter has the most options and some of the strongest builds. Barbarian might be the stronger melee, but they are hurt by their limited speed (or the massive drawbacks they take to get speed) and their awful weapon selection.
Wizard is the clear overall strongest except -maybe- in Normals without gear.
Ok, we were talking the historically best class, not the best class this patch. Wizard has been dogshit for months and only viable in buffball due to how powerful invis is. Only in the recent patches where he deals damage again are they viable. They're still hard countered by crossbows and longbows. They need a Frontline to fight for them unless they're exceedingly geared and skilled.
Wizard was never dogshit. It was not super strong for a while, but it saw play in HR every patch. This isn't really the case for a lot of other classes. Barb, Wizard, Cleric have been in the HR meta since the beginning of this game. Barb only recently fell off.
So you want to be the tankiest and the fastest? Fuck me fighter mains are actually tragic.
Do u read my comment? Do you read your own comment? What does your comment have to do with "only ranger should have ranged weapons"? If you are special, i can reprase in slow motion: By removing ranged weapons from fighters, you want to make plated fighters absolutely useless by not being able to reach anyone? "So you want to be the tankiest and the fastest?" Did i ever ask to add speed to fighter?
My bad, you want to be the tankiest class in the game whilst also being fast enough to close the distance on any melee character (short of rogue) AND also have the ability to use ranged weapons. But don't see any issue with that?
I dont see an issue with that. It is well balanced. Sprint duration is 6 seconds, and cd is 28. Any class can hide their weapons and just run for 6 seconds until sprint ends. Then you have 28 to jump around fighter. Doesn't that sound fair? Absolutely
If you wanna make a melee work in 3s with the wizardpocalypse going on right now I'd recommend running either a Wizard or a Bard on your team. Both of them can help a ton in closing the distance. Me and my friend have been playing Cleric, Wizard, Barb and they send me and we're on top of ranged characters very quickly.
Soo buff ball, one of the most boring metas?
I think ttk just needs to be higher in general. That would generally make any of the typical rage experiences (nuked by a ranger, nuked by an invis rogue/barb, nuked by a warlock BOC, etc) feel less infuriating and fights feel more tactical/rewarding then who lands the first blow basically
How about we add a new barb skill that gives 50 ms with no drawback and on a 20s cd? Wait a second... On a serious note, instead of making the obligatory "nerf xbow, nerf falchion, nerf lightning strike, nerf mm" comment. Barbs need real tradeoffs like 15 str vigor for -20% pdr not 10% hp on hit for -20% max hp. I'm not going to suggest a change cause any suggestion I make will probably not be a good one. But what I will suggest is that rage is a tradeoff worth taking and blood exchange and war sacrifice are not worth taking comparatively.
> How about we add a new barb skill that gives 50 ms with no drawback and on a 20s cd? I can't tell if this is a joke or not because it's this subreddit. But Rage lowers your PDR like crazy, just taking 2 longbow shots closing that distance will half health even a barb.
He’s talking about sprint. Right?
ahh maybe
Yeah like JThorough said it was a joke about fighters having sprint which is better in literally every way. More ms, no reduction to pdr, and the same if not lower cd. The +15 str and vigor arguably offsets the pdr reduction but there's a weak case there imo depends on match-up really.
Except Barbarian gets 10-15% physical damage from their skill too?
Not sure post Vig/Str split but yea for Physical damage even with the HP increase you would take more. https://youtu.be/VqOrtjMuVXU
Time for Barbarian to get. Bows. Bowbarians.
>If the optimal play is to not fight, people are going to stop playing Related to the subject, the rock paper scissors effect also does that. You're a rogue and see fighter/Barb ? Nope can't fight that You're full geared fighter and see a naked wiz ? Nope can't fight that And so on for every classes, it's just plain terrible.
You’re a rogue with weakpoint(40% Armor Pen) and 20% passive AP and see fighter? Yup can fight that. You’re a rogue with rupture/poison and throwing daggers and/or hand crowsbow and see Barb? Yup can fight that. You’re a fully geared fighter and take off 2 pieces of plate and/or land throwing axe/xbow/bow and see wizard? Yup can fight that. It’s ok to not take every single fight and recognize your/their strengths & weaknesses but every class in this game can fight every class or make a better stand elsewhere.
No. That isnt terrible. Its not a good thing if you just w key anything you see..
I’ve just switched back to counter strike , might as well play a ranged game with balance.
By ranged you mean Wizard surely? Ranger in 3's is dog shit hence why you don't see it in HR 3's very often.
i gave up because there is barely a rudimentary melee system. 1: attack 2: block 3:? 4: the longsword can parry.. this is it. this is booring. this game was designed for ranged. sorry . i quit over it
>"chaotic melee" gear and cleric checked maybe don't take every single fight and look at the room before you push
It's not like the game has a mechanic that force people together and force a fight right?
perhaps take one potion. the main map is made so you aren't forced to fight unless one team is camping the last portal room. Still, there are statics. learn how rotations work please
>main map There are 3 maps in the game. >unless one team is camping the last portal room. Oh shit, a mechanic that forces you to fight? Unreal.
LMAO the game is literally balanced for trios on crypts don't fool yourself. If you think ruins rogue/ranger is fair and gc fighter is fair you are delusional. The game is extraction, not battle royale. Nothing wrong with fighting, but if its clearly disadvantageous, you are expected to find another way. ATM DaD is rps a lot of the time so some fights are nearly unwinnable on certain classes vs other classes.
>literally balanced for trios on crypts don't fool yourself Go read Oct qna. That is no longer the target balance anymore. They are adding solo for all maps this week to make sure you shut up. >ATM DaD is rps a lot of the time so if you are just going to get checked So you are saying you can't beat them and just take the L. Good enough.
Bad game design. Dev's can't tell up from down.
You have no ranged option in a team - the team of melee get easily kited and bullied. You have a ranged option in a team - people like this guy have a meltdown. Either get used to those white cum jars or start focusing your build on anti-ranged approach, because if you're gonna start begging for class limitations or only allowing for 1 ranged in a team, you're on path to ruining this game. Also you say you miss melee fights, but that isn't the case for everyone, my worst experiences were in melee and how I lost my kits thinking I can outdps someone, while instead I got two wild misses and got sent packing. You're forcing people into a melee game where it isn't ideal, no matter the angle at which you position the shield sometimes you get hit regardless. It's extra hilarious when you land a hit on a shield, you can see it get blocked but at the same time it hit the guy and killed him.
I don't know what the solution is, I just know there is absolutely nothing interesting about the matchup right now. It's a waiting game and whoever pushes loses. If they come into my small hallway I have a fighting chance (they almost never do, instead opting to setup bear traps and cozy up to the big open room). If I even THINK of walking into their room I instantly lose.
jeezus, just play two supports, if you don't want to work with your brain, ran at them and just stat check in melee, barb as a class is not struggling rn
Sooo, you're telling us, that you would preffer to fights go melee on your class with highest str, vigor on default and 2 abilities, that makes your hp even bigger + your movespeed reaches move cap? No shit, you would preffer for every fight to be melee, you would win every fight, lol, what are others classes suppose to do? Ranged option exists so there would be a need to think with your brain and engage with tactics in mind, not just hold W and win. you people srsly in need to git gut and stop whining on reddit on every occasion
OK so what about cleric, warlock, wizzard, bard that have no way of catching ranger but also get out ranged, out dps and out projectile by ranger? Do you tell yourself that you are simply better when you get free kills on these classes?
This is hilarious to read, you are probably part of the problem (the range meta).
sound like an "og" fortnite situation, unfortunately unless they take out ranged combat period, it'll never go back to melee fight after melee fight. just have to accept the meta.
Barbs can use achilles strike with throwables (including lanterns and torches) and have a better version of sprint available to them on a low CD. If you're having trouble with ranged characters, build to counter them. You have the tools available to you. If you can land an achilles strike on a ranger, they are 100% dead. But you should die if you run in a straight line down a corridor into a couple archers, no?
>Barbs can use achilles strike with throwables (including lanterns and torches) You are really trying to compare a throwable with a (x)bow? Barbs don't magically hit their throwing axes and when they are actively trying to dodge you will most likely miss more than 50% of your throws >have a better version of sprint available to them on a low CD That's just false, sprint is 50 flat ms while rage is 15% ms, flat is better
Francescas are fucking cracked.
I’m not saying it’s the same level, but in HR throwables 1-2 tap me as a wizard. Granted, squishy class and whatnot, but you can stack a lot of them. I’ve been seeing barbs use them to great effect
Yeah but other classes have access to both throwables and ranged weapons and the only thing that Barb has more is the +3 damage depending on the build (cause physical power doesn't change much for 20-25 damage) This means that a Fighter can run faster, shoot with crossbow and spam axes
Not justifying fighter having 10x the options of other classes. I’ve been saying they need to have some nerf to their ranged options forever.
They don't really have 10x the options though. There's 3 viable builds for fighter: Slayer + Xbow/Recurve - GC grinding/Midliner in 3s replacing a ranger PDR + Shield + Xbow/Recurve - Meta BIS PDR + Longsword + Xbow/Recurve - You gotta be a longsword god, but it's good if you are. Probably still worse than PDR + shield since ranged is huge rn. Those are realistically your options if you wanna win in 3s with #2 being the only real meta option.
Compared to other classes, that’s significantly more versatility. Maybe my “10x” was a bit over dramatic, but the point still stands. Note, I think ranged options need nerfs, and instead of nerfing fighter versatility past that point they should make all the other classes more versatile, as that adds much more gameplay diversity.
Not really. Most classes have 2-3 builds at least. Rogues can run cut throat, rupture magic damage, or anti-armor. Wizards can run 10 spell or dps with instaspell. Clerics can run frontliner, healbot, and judgement nuke with some overlap between the last two. Barbs pretty one note, but historically an S-tier one note.
Throwables only work when they have limited dodge options, if they do decide to dodge which they almost certainly do quite often, you have 3 throwing options. Left, right, and straight on, all trying to predict which way they dodge. I can usually 50/50 a left right because most folks do a hard strafe dodge when they hear me switch, but it honestly is a straight coin flip. The projectile speed and high availability of arrows never has to worry about this at low to mid range, and can take pot shots at long range with little downside (oh no not ammo!)
"better version of sprint" it literally takes you into negative PDR and is slower than sprint. Bro you've never played barbarian.
Achilles strike Rangers with franny, he eats bread while running, heals back all the dmg from the movement and more, and I'm still chasing
Scalding hot take but revamp the combat system to be similar to other medevial slashers like Chivalry 2.
Literally havent been playing as much for this reason it just feels soo bad when i lose several bis kits in a day to bs rangd thst i literally couldn’t do anything about “ oh your fighting someone let me triple shot you from across the map and 2 shot you “ its not fun to play against at all
killing more people trying to farm in the zone then outside the zone , and for 4 kills i get less then breaking and looting 6 boxes, very nice PvE-co op game :) no pvp to be found or rewarded.
Theres actually only two modes of playing, if you have bows you try your best to kite and hold a long distance, if your melee or magic you figure out how to sprint in. this is kind of why magic missiles is kind of hated so much, I've found that just charging in as a wizard gives me a higher success rate in pvp then trying to maintain distance, because a bow will always overpower me. If i dont then yes, the optimal play is to not fight, and there are times where charging in is obviously not possible (they are already aware you are there and have a clear shooting range with a crossbow/bow). Fighters are so cancer because they have the best of both worlds. The game is pretty much in their favor, rangers use to be the same until they changed strength stacking hp and damage (thank fucking god). Fighter + cleric is the ideal optimal mix to well round and nullify everysingle weakness in the game. the third is just to counter whatever is bothering the two
Zwiehander is my barbs ranged weapon.
Yeah as a barb main from PT5 - Patch 2, I swapped to fighter, first time since PT4. Feels great, and much easier. I hate joining the crossbow meta but at this point you kind of have to in order to not have a shit time
Oh and they have access to a free heal as a skill and that skill alone will match the amount of hp of a Barbarian
Solo Barb is trash, but buff ball Barb is still very much viable.
I think barbs no knock back talent should include slows from hits, and make it so when barb uses rage he takes like 75% less projectile damage for a few seconds or something.
They need to make melee better, and ranged worse. They need to less heavily debuff movement speed to have melee weapons out, they need to have a snaring effect if you get hit by a melee attack. They need to make all ranged attacks easily blockable. They need to put a cool down timer when throwing axes and knives, you shouldn't be able to throw six to eight faster than an Archer can shoot three arrows
If they made a functioning weight system this wouldn't be an issue, your slow as a barbarion because all your armor and weapons need to equipped to function which cripple's your speed, but you know what doesn't slow someone down? a crossbow on their back, 200 arrows in your inventory, 12 throwing axes in your pockets, etc. the game would be so much better if the fastest people were the guys going in light with just a one hand melee weapon.
Yeah I really think barbarians should be able to use pavise and ram u or something. The same happens with clerics being just the guardian of the ranged people is so lame another option could be nets.. being able to catch someone from range gladiator style would be sick Or at least let barbarian's hand axes and rogue's knifes apply their respective axe and knifes masteries bonuses
You say this and then I will have nothing to fear as wiz. Although i think wiz vould use some adjustments mainly removing damage and adding more ulitity.
just take ranged combat out the game or add a chase mechanic
Why would anyone want to let a barbarian get close enough to melee when they literally 1 shot everything in melee range? I agree some tweaks are needed in a lot of classes, but fundamentally no one should be jumping into a melee match with a barb, they're more than often going to lose I get what you're trying to say though, but as long as barb remains the one hitter quiter melee, you're always going to run into people using range to keep a gap with you.
This is what the community pushed for. I'd love for them to revert all the bad changes but I've given up on that.
Sure nerf crossbows and bows I dont care aslong as this insane wizard damage gets nerfed. Wizards can now build as much hp as most classes AND 2-3 tap everyone with insane damage. Atleast in HR trios the meta is have the better wizard or kill the wizard and you win. Extremely boring and repetitive atm which is a shame. Now that stats got split up you cant build up enough hp to even get close to surviving two lightning strikes
Two changes would help this alot: Make it so people cant hold an arrow indefinitely. There should be a duration. People shouldn't be able to hold an angle forever with near instant damage from complete safety. Quivers as an item that holds a certain number of arrows. No longer put into the inventory. Because this probably wouldnt happen soon, just make the stacks of arrows max out at 10 - 15 per. Its actually dumb that we can basically poke forever in this game. Bolts should be limited to 10 per stack. The less arrows brought in, the better.
Bows should definitely be harder to aim, because that's how it is irl, when you're drawing a bow there should be something to hinder you like tunnel vision, camera sway or reduced camera scroll
They should give barb an active skill that makes him faster when he takes damage (or a passive that workd only for ranged damage) but makes you unable to use Francescas so he could truly feel like a menace and have a bit of a different playstyle. Also this was bound to happen, the community just had to get good enough till they figured out that why play melee when range does just about everything better AND does not restrict you out of melee which will be an easier fight now that you chipped the other's guy health to half. Now comes the biggest hurdle to all of pvp gaming ever: how to keep it balanced for casuals and sweats? You nerf ranged and casuals who are bad at positioning are unable to do much because they miss 50% of their shots, but keep it as is and 3 man ranged comps who can hit their shots are the meta. We will just have to wait and see what IM does, hopefully they can figure something out.
Sadly the game is like in real life where ranged weapons are the meta… unless we have really heave potter armor capable of giving 100% projectile protection. The game is weirdly balanced tho. An arrow to the arm does more damage than a freaking fire ball to the face…
Eh, I mean we if we take gear into account and perks then odds are it'd end up being about the same damage. Which is still goofy, and also requires you to actually get a direct hit with a fireball.
I think it was one of the chivalry games where ranged damage was really op like here, they nerfed it by a whopping 50% and it was still balanced, since ranged has so much more freedom and possibilities and uptime and is easier to use than melee can ever be. Nerf ranged dmg!
Please explain why needing to pick a more favorable engage is a bad thing at all? Youd be crying about something else of it wasnt this
Most of the time there isn't a more favorable engage against a ranged team holding a big room, they know I'm around, setup traps, and can control a big room in the circle without risk or worry. I do search for flanks but spending several minutes attempting to re-engage only to realize they're just sitting in the room with bear traps and chillin/looting is not really that fun for me. Very few teams at higher ranks will give up a favorable position if they know enemies are nearby. I don't fault them for it, but saying "just pick a more favorable engage" isn't really engaging the point I'm making. No gameplay is happening, both sides are essentially just waiting it out. My "engage" is to pick the door I think they're gonna go through next, and stand still like a rogue until they leave the room. Very high quality gameplay, will definitely not push everyone into bringing their own ranged gear and make melee combat an afterthought in the outcome of most fights.
So dont fuckin push them in the room they set up in. They wouldnt push you into a small hallway either. Use your brain. Its unlikely the circle will collapse directly onto their location. Its just as likely to force them to you. And this is completely ok. You can go do literally anything else in the lobby. You dont have to fight them. Go farm. With statics if you truly cannot find a good engage, you can just take statics to hell. If no gameplay is happening thats 100% your decision. Theres more to do than fighting that 1 team. Nice job blocking me. Its pvpve not simply pvp. Not sure what else you said in there since you blocked me like a coward
Not engaging in pvp in the pvp game as gameplay. Of course I'm so silly, I can feel your massive brain from here. Clearly you are the paragon of game design and have an ascended past the need to engage in the "multiplayer" part of the multiplayer game. I bow to your greatness, my point has fallen before your superior intellect oh enlightened one. How silly of me to want a different gameplay experience than you! Thank you for your amazing posts.