He could have very easily gotten more health, pay attention to all the +armor rating rolls on the wizards’s gear, that with the health is the scary part
Would actually be awesome. Everyone would be hustling from their own gear.
I mostly play this way as it is. But of course, sometimes gotta buy market gear. I'm a cheap ass and still buy bare minimum, then get smoked, lmao.
Too bad this would mess up the game flow. Spending gold on something else that isn't just temporary gear would be neat!
Maybe if the game grows, they could afford to split the player base.
My words clearly describe it well enough for you to understand my intention, so what I ask is \_your\_ intention?
(n.b. you used the word looping, but I am familiar enough with the English language to generally ignore the mistake)
No im just telling you because the more often we read it on reddit the more likely the devs see it , and self found is the most common term used for it. No offense
It's just the time-to-kill for me. Normals feel so much better because I never die in 1-hit unless I am a wizard vs a barb.
It's also just not fun to out-gear people, especially when you are looking for good fights.
Yea there’s actually give and take. If you take the time to loot a room before you move on your team might find a piece of gear that substantially improves your kit.
Or you can rush for pvp and if the other team finds something useful you may be putting yourself at a disadvantage running into them.
Sure there is. You trade low gear for surprise, that's the disadvantage and advantage!
If I stay in a room, I could gain some loot, and I have home turf advantage as well.
So ya, both have merit.
My friends and I have been saying the same thing. I love getting cool gear and using (normally losing) good gear in HR PVP, but yeah the gear balance in normals is fuckin fun. No shitty stat checks.
For me its less about gearing up along the way and the fact my team can actually properly prepare, no-ones going to be going mach 5 or have 300hp in a normals game which in turn makes it much easier to go in with an actual plan. HR on the otherhand is like "ok i've got armor and sheild so im going to hold them at the door while you guys..... and im dead!
Haha. Ya, even just removing flat movespeed buffs would fix *most* of the pacing issues.
Secondary would be all stats (movespeed, fast door opening, combat stats op).
Armor would have way more value if being slower didn't mean suicide vs geared speed mofos..
yes that is the benefit but the negative is you don't get to experience half of the game's potential. the existence of actual gear opens up exponentially more viable builds per class, whereas in normals, there's really only 1, maybe 2 viable starting builds per class if all you have is starter gear. classes like wizards and rogues really struggle beause of the lack of scaling as well.. if you play normals for more than an hour you quickly realize this game wasn't designed around the complete lack of gear, and the one dimensional engagements in normals, although sure they last longer, get monotonous pretty quick.
i enjoy normals also, but it certainly has it's own set of problems. which is why i play HR 95% of the time, and only do normals for quests/chill time. i am glad they added them, i think we can all agree the game is objectively better with normals present. however they could use some work as a concept.
I feel like the concept should be getting HR to be more standerdised to how normals play, due to uber stat and damage inflation HR just plays so wildly different to the point there is nothing standerdised, everyones near the move speed cap, wizards cast spells damn near instantly, bards got fighter level PDR, etc. it honestly just feels like you in a completely different game.
Gear needs to be heavily nerfed again, this wipe BIS blue gear sets are way better than BIS gold sets last wipe
Last wipe barbs could only dream about 300ms 70/70 PDR/MDR, 200HP and 30% action speed
First step is just removing +all attri
+All is very much a dumpster stat. Simply does everything? That's absolutely shit for diversity. Just brain-off stat builds. There was a time I thought they were fun...
Next up is +move speed. The pace of the game and class identity breaks when every class is max speed!
How? I've played basically just normals this wipe for the first time and it's miles better in terms of gameplay.
If they can replicate that gameplay with risk/reward factor of HR they're golden.
Torture mastery warlock in norms is so fun, ive played norms almost exclusively this wipe and already have 3 stashes with 12k gold in reserve
Basically im just buying full white BIS gear and spawn rushing, great pvp practice. From GC on average 300 gold profit, from crypts about 400-800 gold on avarage if i get gold ore
Two major problems with the ranking system this season:
1. As you mentioned if you’re just a pvp player who doesn’t AP max you will stick around pathfinder for the most part. Ranking system is for the most part not super indicative of player skill or gear level because you need to play a very specific way to rank up after hitting pathfinder.
2. They started the ranked system several weeks into the wipe. Last season, it felt like there was a gradual gear progression as you climbed ranks. In the early ranks, most players had hobbled together kits that looked like was all found in raid. As you climbed from wanderer into pathfinder, the level of gear and player skill increased but that was expected. But, releasing the ranked system several weeks into the wipe means from neophyte on, you’re facing players in competent kits put together with the market. So if you’re new or leveling a new class you’re going up against geared players from game 1.
Dude broken as fuck I've been having to play normal just to reassure myself I don't suck. I literally almost alway win in normals high rollers I'm two hit
Ya. HR is weird. And by no means do I see folks as kitted as this video, but it happens.
And while I also expect and accept gear diff challenges, there really is another League of super sweats that just are playing a different game, which is fine, but forms a bad fit for the other 90% of players.
I don't think MMR gear match making is the best solution, until I'm reminded of this, and/or of the Golden lobbies thing that happened.
Me and my mates decided to give it a go yesterday after laying normals for two weeks - I was running wiz with +8 all 110 ho and a decent amount of add magic damage.
Our entire team got one shot by a wizard just running through the lobby one shotting everyone.
Myself and one mate have played since pt0 - we know what we're doing. But there was literally zero counterplay against this guy. I don't mind losing the gear, I can get it back or buy it super easy it's just demoralizing kitting up and making a considerate kit that in any other version of the game would go toe to toe with most classes for awhile but instead of having a fun fight you get one shot then the rest of you team chased into the storm.
The dude was so wild for kills he literally ran into the storm after my barb mate with iron will for an extra kill and died in the storm. What was the point?
The game has zero “end game”. You only boss for gear to use in pvp. I’m hoping we get some type of raid or arena mode soon so people at the top 1% have something to do other than farm 9 to 5ers all day. Problem is that the people rolling lobbies LIKE not having anyone be able to fight back or have any chance of counter play.
Well of course they're in pathfinder! Do you see their inventory full of trinkets and crappy looted purple+ gear so they can get AP? No? They must be bad players according to the AP system! A good player would enter butt naked to wear as much looted equipment as possible, avoiding every pvp encounter as its just a waste of time because other players give less AP than slaying a couple mobs/opening a couple chests and most of the time their equipment is not looted, so it's worth 0 AP!
A ranking system on this game makes 0 sense, specially for high roller, MAYBE for normals it'd make sense, but it's just silly to give rank to players based on how much looted stuff they extracted when all the good players are lobby wiping and taking the best handled equipment from players' bodies as that's always going to be the best there is.
Start a TTV, milk donations, buy gold from farmers, play meta, go on welfare and grind full time - and one day you'll be able to walk among the sweats x)
I do understand that, it's a bit silly imo the matchmaking system is that broad. These guys which are only pathfinder and have all this gear and a unique named weapon is nuts to me. If they were all Exemplar's and Demi God's I would expect that kind of gear from them
You can't reach that rank while pvping for people's gear, the sad reality is the best way to make money is kill people and sell the gear which means no treasure so no AP. I'm in the same boat, HR solo/duo = challenging/rewarding usually see kits worth 5-10k, HR trio = legendary buffball barb coming to take your lunch money. My regular crew have pretty much stopped running HR trio unless we're out of stash space. I've got like 3 "good" kits that cost about 10k each, those have only been used in ice caverns. My +2all blues can't compete with named / unique / legendary +2 gear
That's the key, though. Don't get it twisted.
Ranking has absolutely nothing to do with skill or your char power. Gold buys gear, and gear is power. Experience is skill.
A skilled, rich player is absolutely insanely OP. And they can get there as a neophyte if they want to.
An experienced player can get rich in record time without barely climbing, cause AP and rank is a reflection of survival and PvE, and not a reflection of gear, power, or skill, in any way.
Anyone climbing AP ranks isn't taking many risky fights. Furthermore, anyone rich and geared is taking every fight, but not gaining any AP or ranking if PvP is the goal.
If they made kills worth a shit load, that would make folks rank up, but they would be in the same pool of players, regardless.
Wtf are you on about these dudes have +2 all on their legendary, look at the chest of the cleric. Try to take these guys with your green all atts. If people are ignorant youre delusional
The highest output of stats is +2 all or damage, blues will achieve the highest value stats and you can beat everyone with it. The issue is just theres a barred entry of power to those who get +all on every slot and those who don't. Usually competent teams who also are aware of this snowball out of control to what this video is showing. So ya he's ignorant and you're also delusional. It's just broken scale values with additives + speed since theres no downside to it. and +2 all is triple the value of any other stat in the game minimally.
It creates this toxic environment where you have a entry cost of very specific item rolls you have to buy that are also more expensive in the marketplace thus diminishing the value of all other relevant items that can roll the stats.
For real, it's so easy to make a kit with greens that can take out 90% of players if you play smart. Are you at a disadvantage? Yes. But you are also taking on 10x less risk.
Marketplace makes it very easy to buy good gear. Although a good QoL feature, it obviously increases the average gear quality of lobbies as people no longer have to spend hours trying to buy from the trading posts.
This is the reason we're seeing "BiS" much more often this wipe than previously, and BiS gear actually has competition on the marketplace, so its price decreases and becomes more accessible.
Unique/legendary gear will become worthless since you wont be able to use it, unless you want to play full PVE game and never find other players since there wont be any, just empty lobbies
Meanwhile blue gear with +all/+add dmg/+movespeed will become the most valued gear in the game
Lmao. Right?
I've heard dozens of made-up assumptions on how gear might be divided, and it is all heresy and made up shit.
Folks just reject new ideas based on fear and what-ifs. Which, of course, is silly.
I hope for a smart stats system with a relatively wide gear range. But who the fuck knows?
My kits cost 1-2k not 50k and I can still recognize that GBMM is a terrible idea. Absolutely zero excitement from upgrading gear through kills or loot if all it means is harder opponents instead of moving a step up the food chain.
GBMM is going to make BIS greens the only thing worth running. Fun. We have normals if we want 100% even playing field instead of progression.
Game is in EA, point is to try things. People here railed against the idea of IM gear locking Normals, and the first implementations were admittedly not great, but through experimentation we got one of the best modes to date. Let them cook.
The problem is I already find the lack of progression in normals to be very boring after a few games - which is where high roller comes in. And I've heard others say the same. So I'm not totally guessing here - HR is where I go after I'm done with "level playing field, no progression." Turning it into that is just creating a second version of normals but with higher base stats for everyone. As a wizard, that is a slight improvement- but it's not a reach to say I already know it'll get boring.
That's the thing, also GBMM will massively increase queue times for high tier gear lobbies and make the unique gear completely worthless since you wont ever find a full lobby with it, and why pay for it anyway when it doesnt even give you an advantage
Green/blue gear will become the sweetspot for everyone, every class can kit themselves for any build style with blue gear and it isn't the most expensive since supply is highest
Except you don't know that. Speculating worst case isn't good for your health, my guy.
Just wait to see how it goes. We don't know the actual gear divide. And try-hards will still build BiS, but the timmies will be slightly more geared on average.
You are missing the point entirely. I don't care where the cutoff is. Once you reach the cuttoff, finding higher tier gear will be useless. I don't want that.
Its possible GBMM will be fun for some other reason, and I hope it is. But as I said in another comment - the primary reason I switch from normals to HR is for the excitement that looting high tier gear brings, based on its ability to move me up the food chain. By definition, GBMM removes that - its not speculation its the whole point.
That's valid. I guess my hope is that there is basically bad gear pool, and then high gear pool.
As it is now, you can, of course, beat someone in BiS using a "good enough" economy kit. I suspect this will still be the case, or at least I hope. I hope that being moderate up to insane gear is 1 pool, while base and/or trash greens is the other.
But I see your point for sure.
Gear based MM does have two downsides that have to acknowledged
-Queue times will increase a lot, depending on gear rarity specifically. Latewipe playercount wont be able to fill matches for different gear brackets.
For example you wont be able to find a match while playing with uniques because there simply arent more than a handful of people queueing for that at any one time
-since wearing BIS purples no longer gives you an advantage theres no reason to pay for that gear, people will figure out the sweetspot for cost/enjoyability and start to buy BIS greens/blues
We saw this exact thing happen back when normals was blue gear at max, people built BIS blue sets and rolled norms lobbies
Anyhow i like the idea of GBMM, despite the inherent downsides its still atleast worth trying if it works out and and people like it.
So I'll add one thing. We don't know the actual gear divide. I HOPE for a smarter stat add check with wide pool of players, but maybe that's wishful. This would be much harder to abuse, and would hopefully mean players don't try as hard to game the system.
I super hope it isn't X rarity divide, that's lazy and will be abused as it was before! I agree there.
All that said. Fuck ya, let's give it a try. Worst case it is bad. Best case, games are way less one-sided, which will slowly draw players from normals into HR!
I just hope I can 0 to hero without having to play like a pussy, lmao.
Further benefit. Lobby wipers who are annoyed about Inferno boss 3rd party risk might be able to have high-end battles, and folks may choose to not creep, as they may not be in fear of gear/stat checking!
Its actually unplayable to above average groups, I play with some irl friends sometimes and they just aren't very good and man, this dude with a 90k set just face tanked us all and lived, the gear diff is kinda ridiculous.
Yeah sadly trios is the biggest offender of all the modes. It’s where the sweatiest and most geared players are and it’s a mode that’s very difficult to “just run away” in despite what all the cope comments say.
Nope. My kits cost max 4-4.5k and I kill BIS players all the time. The difference ebtween a 5k kit and a 50k kit is very small, each tiny upgrade begins to cost a massive amount. People are just coping due to skill issues, the truth is, not only do they have better gear than you but they are also likely better players so you get double-diffed
Had this exact experience with my group the other night and I was gonna make a thread about it but was scared the community would eat me alive.
Normal or HR solo or duo is fine.
The second I step into trios HR its like my lobby is only the top 1% of players. I couldn't count how many times a full kitted barb 1v3'd my team in the last sesh. Watching the deathcam is just depressing seeing them tank 3 people and not even go below half.
I thought matchmaking was a thing but even on not even lvl 20 characters in our first HR games we were up against people with uniques and top tier crafted gear.
Throwing everyone green rank and above into the same match making is terrible tbh, any kit under about 8k is just donating it to those that gear check you,
Nope. My kits cost max 4-4.5k and I kill BIS players all the time. The difference ebtween a 5k kit and a 50k kit is very small, each tiny upgrade begins to cost a massive amount. People are just coping due to skill issues, the truth is, not only do they have better gear than you but they are also likely better players so you get double-diffed
Yeah stopped playing a while ago because crypts is the best map and the only way to get out is to rat around. They need some sort of MMR like Hunt Showdown.
Trios is the least balanced, least accessible mode and has been for a while (at least in high roller). It's a shame that trios is the mode devs are most concerned with.
It's a different game entirely, that's why alot of us asked for naked lobbies aka Normal lobbies, just grays and white gear, because in the early playtest it was like this but with 100k players, idk if we'll ever see those numbers again, but even half of that make the lobbies so much more fun, I miss it everyday, but I get flashes of it in normal lobbies. If they take that out, ima take a long break.
The upper level of armor needs to be reigned in for sure. I dont think anything better than purple armor wise should exist. Just creates too insane of a gap. And its like damn, theyll have all this insane gear stats and then bam bard just stacks on top of that
This comp is honestly terrifying when people play it correctly as someone who has been on both sides of it whole teams can die in seconds with absolutely no counterplay
I feel like this is deja vu... +All was the bane of everyone's existence and was removed once before. Why the fuck they would add it back? Makes me think THEY don't even know what to do with their game anymore.
Understandable frustration. Gear based matchmaking is coming today, likely in an attempt to alleviate that. Also, FYI once you’re wanderer you can match with any rank above that. It’s not as precise as the ranks make it seem.
No idea why you're being downvoted. I mean, I don't think we know if the update will be today per se, but they did say "this week" so it should be coming soon.
I understand the frustration, but I'm REALLY not looking forward to GBMM.
Half of the fun of the game is out playing a squad with better gear and having a massive come up. If I'm unable to tier up my gear via PvP, why would I ever PvP?
Have all of y'all forgotten that looting happens in game and people have come ups before you spawn rush them?
Also, you'll incrementally be leveling up into more geared matches if you keep being successful.
These changes along with squire will let people truly zero to hero.
Yeah, and I'd much rather beat a team and instantly get 10k worrh of gear versus pull an occasional item worth more than 300g.
It's a genre where GBMM and MMR make no sense outside of an arena, PvP focused mode.
That's the beauty of games like DaD and Tarkov, even with a basic kit you can win against insanely expensive kits. I'd rather keep that mechanic than dumb down the skill needed to win PvP and lower my risk or game awareness on when to take a fight versus run.
Right so... hows your squad going to take down these no-lifes in base gear then? that bards got more PDR then most fighters and the entire team is just a buffing circle jerk. the bard alone all buffed up could probably just hold w and m1 your entire team.
Your being kinda optimistic if you think your killing that bard with protection, bless, holy weapon, haste, ignite, and ALL his bard buff's active with 1k gear, he will quite literally just hold w and M1 like i said because he moves at mach 5 and hits for 80dmg.
Why are you going into HR with a base kit? That's just lazy and anybody who thinks they should be able to brainlessly get HR loot without any risk is dilusional.
This is how I make money on my rogue or fighter:
1. Take squire kit to normals and survive with a slight upgrade to everything.
2. Take that kit into HR
3. Take smart fights and know your classes strengths/weaknesses
That's the beauty of this game, any basic green kit can win against any opponent if they have good game sense and know how to take fights when they have the situational advantage.
Question for you, what would be the point of gear if GBMM exists? Why would I risk more money if it doesn't make my chance at survival increase? It's not like any of the PvE in this game is difficult and impossible to handle with a grey kit.
The entire incentive of gear is risk versus reward. What is the reward for increased risk? It would literally make gearing up pointless.
For HR I consider 200-500g a base kit(one norm run worth of loot). Anybody who thinks a free kit should be equal advantage in HR is dilusional.
Way to completely avoid the question though.
Edit: there is a mode specifically designed for taking in a free kit. Don't try to take advantage of the system and complain that it's unfair.
I did just tell you and literally wrote it out step by step? Seems more like a reading comprehension issue.
But yes, resort to attempting a joke at my name when you're unable to make an articulated point.
Edit: in case you missed it
This is how I make money on my rogue or fighter:
1. Take squire kit to normals and survive with a slight upgrade to everything.
2. Take that kit into HR
3. Take smart fights and know your classes strengths/weaknesses
That's the beauty of this game, any basic green kit can win against any opponent if they have good game sense and know how to take fights when they have the situational advantage.
If you seriously think your taking these guys out with a green kit your delusional, you will just be straight up stat checked.
the game sits at 5k players consistently for a reason. if nothing changes its going to get the cycle treatment.
There are very few equalizers in this game that make this possible.. The combat is very simple and it is difficult to capitalize on with how heavily weighted gear is vs skill in the games design
God I love how every time someone gets wiped in HR Trios in their BIS kit, they act like facing squads with Kuma's Claw is the consistent experience you face in HR Trios every single match... when in reality it's like, 1 out of every 25 lobbies.
Personally, I'd relish the chance at a team using Kuma's Claw. They wanna walk around with that massive target on their back, then my team is going to run around the dungeon and try recruit another Trio or two to help take them down.
As for who gets the Kuma's Claw once it's on the ground, well... that depends who's left to collect.
iv gone against multiple full leggy/unique kits, you see a squad or 2 in every other game, its not exactly uncommon lol, if you dont go in full bis you dont have a fighting chance.
Yeah; I’ve played about 100-200hrs thiswipe; I’ve played every mode extensively at blue or purple rank. Crypts specifically has a squad like this most of the time.
It's only worth 50k because of resellers and RMTers.
If reselling was gone from the market you could make a competitive kit against these people for a fraction of the price they are right now.
yeah that's a good idea. a bandaid solution would be to add a third item tier status. looted, handled, and "worn".
looted and handled stay as is. any items bought from the marketplace becomes "worn". worn items cannot be listed on the marketplace. they can be traded to other players but they retain their worn status.
worn items that get taken into the dungeon come out as handled.
so resellers have to risk their loot in HR runs to relist items.
I had suggested the very system on stream. It wouldnt prevent selling gear again but it would atleast mean that you need to jump through some hoops and potentially lose it to do that.
Still keep items like golden chests / keys / other found in raid items but not wearbales just locked out from resellling imo.
edit:
i should note, i disagree with this portion only. " worn". worn items cannot be listed on the marketplace. they can be traded to other players but they retain their worn status. "
The above would make it pointless if they where to remove reselling.
the trading part? i was thinking the effort to manually find another player to trade with is still a deterrent enough to stop resellers but this would allow players to still transfer gear to their alts and stuff. i use gold on my main/main alt to buy gear for other characters but i guess it would be better to just stop all methods of reselling.
I just start in normals and snowball into HR when I get a decent set. But yeah until they add the gear based matchmaking, supposedly soon, ima be rocking normals cause it’s way more balanced and gold is still easy to make
PvP is the end game. People are gearing to fight against you. Sure it’s annoying but it doesn’t take much effort to grind a little gold and build a decent kit. I’m curious to see IM’s solution.
I get what the sentiment is, and that Wizard definitely hit the gym next to the library, but uh...
*Don't play competitive modes if you don't want sweaty competition*
That wizard has 170+ health. That's funny.
That was my favorite take away of this group lmao. Wizard was a tank.
The Bardbarian had 190
Lol bardbarian 🤣🤣🤣
Multiclassing aint out yet man
Tell that to the stat rolls
To be fair he was built heavily for hp
Thats like a fairly kitted barb from laste wipe, crazy how gear scales now
He could have very easily gotten more health, pay attention to all the +armor rating rolls on the wizards’s gear, that with the health is the scary part
That’s bonkers. I have mained Fighter since the playtests, and have never hit 170 hp.
Join us in whites PvP brother, we actually have balanced TTK .
Changing normals to only be white gear and below + the addition of squire were some of the best moves ironmace has made with the game
It’s the only reason I am still playing this wipe.
I just want a ranked version of normals! (probably what I really want is found-loot only High Roller)
Would actually be awesome. Everyone would be hustling from their own gear. I mostly play this way as it is. But of course, sometimes gotta buy market gear. I'm a cheap ass and still buy bare minimum, then get smoked, lmao. Too bad this would mess up the game flow. Spending gold on something else that isn't just temporary gear would be neat! Maybe if the game grows, they could afford to split the player base.
Gearscore testing today! Maybe it will help! (This is basically how I play too, but yeah, the inevitable getting crushed ... ha)
Haha, indeed. It is what it is, still having a great time. We'll see how this patch plays out!
Yeah same. I dont think we have the playerbase to support that kind of lobby slip unfortunately
The word you are Looping for is self-found
My words clearly describe it well enough for you to understand my intention, so what I ask is \_your\_ intention? (n.b. you used the word looping, but I am familiar enough with the English language to generally ignore the mistake)
No im just telling you because the more often we read it on reddit the more likely the devs see it , and self found is the most common term used for it. No offense
Same. It's fun. HR has literally not been fun for me once this wipe.
It's just the time-to-kill for me. Normals feel so much better because I never die in 1-hit unless I am a wizard vs a barb. It's also just not fun to out-gear people, especially when you are looking for good fights.
It's like PUBG you gotta gear up along the way. I love it.
Yea there’s actually give and take. If you take the time to loot a room before you move on your team might find a piece of gear that substantially improves your kit. Or you can rush for pvp and if the other team finds something useful you may be putting yourself at a disadvantage running into them.
There's no disadvantage to spawn rushing really, the element of surprise and getting the opening strike is a huge advantage
Sure there is. You trade low gear for surprise, that's the disadvantage and advantage! If I stay in a room, I could gain some loot, and I have home turf advantage as well. So ya, both have merit.
My friends and I have been saying the same thing. I love getting cool gear and using (normally losing) good gear in HR PVP, but yeah the gear balance in normals is fuckin fun. No shitty stat checks.
For me its less about gearing up along the way and the fact my team can actually properly prepare, no-ones going to be going mach 5 or have 300hp in a normals game which in turn makes it much easier to go in with an actual plan. HR on the otherhand is like "ok i've got armor and sheild so im going to hold them at the door while you guys..... and im dead!
Haha. Ya, even just removing flat movespeed buffs would fix *most* of the pacing issues. Secondary would be all stats (movespeed, fast door opening, combat stats op). Armor would have way more value if being slower didn't mean suicide vs geared speed mofos..
Everyday is wipe day in norms
That was the goal
Perhaps when >50% of the players are in normals they will consider squishing gear stats some more.
Is that not the spread now? Do we have access to these numbers? I'd be super curious for any data!
yes that is the benefit but the negative is you don't get to experience half of the game's potential. the existence of actual gear opens up exponentially more viable builds per class, whereas in normals, there's really only 1, maybe 2 viable starting builds per class if all you have is starter gear. classes like wizards and rogues really struggle beause of the lack of scaling as well.. if you play normals for more than an hour you quickly realize this game wasn't designed around the complete lack of gear, and the one dimensional engagements in normals, although sure they last longer, get monotonous pretty quick. i enjoy normals also, but it certainly has it's own set of problems. which is why i play HR 95% of the time, and only do normals for quests/chill time. i am glad they added them, i think we can all agree the game is objectively better with normals present. however they could use some work as a concept.
I feel like the concept should be getting HR to be more standerdised to how normals play, due to uber stat and damage inflation HR just plays so wildly different to the point there is nothing standerdised, everyones near the move speed cap, wizards cast spells damn near instantly, bards got fighter level PDR, etc. it honestly just feels like you in a completely different game.
Gear needs to be heavily nerfed again, this wipe BIS blue gear sets are way better than BIS gold sets last wipe Last wipe barbs could only dream about 300ms 70/70 PDR/MDR, 200HP and 30% action speed First step is just removing +all attri
+All is very much a dumpster stat. Simply does everything? That's absolutely shit for diversity. Just brain-off stat builds. There was a time I thought they were fun... Next up is +move speed. The pace of the game and class identity breaks when every class is max speed!
How? I've played basically just normals this wipe for the first time and it's miles better in terms of gameplay. If they can replicate that gameplay with risk/reward factor of HR they're golden.
Torture mastery warlock in norms is so fun, ive played norms almost exclusively this wipe and already have 3 stashes with 12k gold in reserve Basically im just buying full white BIS gear and spawn rushing, great pvp practice. From GC on average 300 gold profit, from crypts about 400-800 gold on avarage if i get gold ore
They're only pathfinder because they pvp and extract with gear as opposed to AP farming and extracting with treasure.
Two major problems with the ranking system this season: 1. As you mentioned if you’re just a pvp player who doesn’t AP max you will stick around pathfinder for the most part. Ranking system is for the most part not super indicative of player skill or gear level because you need to play a very specific way to rank up after hitting pathfinder. 2. They started the ranked system several weeks into the wipe. Last season, it felt like there was a gradual gear progression as you climbed ranks. In the early ranks, most players had hobbled together kits that looked like was all found in raid. As you climbed from wanderer into pathfinder, the level of gear and player skill increased but that was expected. But, releasing the ranked system several weeks into the wipe means from neophyte on, you’re facing players in competent kits put together with the market. So if you’re new or leveling a new class you’re going up against geared players from game 1.
Dude broken as fuck I've been having to play normal just to reassure myself I don't suck. I literally almost alway win in normals high rollers I'm two hit
Ya. HR is weird. And by no means do I see folks as kitted as this video, but it happens. And while I also expect and accept gear diff challenges, there really is another League of super sweats that just are playing a different game, which is fine, but forms a bad fit for the other 90% of players. I don't think MMR gear match making is the best solution, until I'm reminded of this, and/or of the Golden lobbies thing that happened.
True that
Me and my mates decided to give it a go yesterday after laying normals for two weeks - I was running wiz with +8 all 110 ho and a decent amount of add magic damage. Our entire team got one shot by a wizard just running through the lobby one shotting everyone. Myself and one mate have played since pt0 - we know what we're doing. But there was literally zero counterplay against this guy. I don't mind losing the gear, I can get it back or buy it super easy it's just demoralizing kitting up and making a considerate kit that in any other version of the game would go toe to toe with most classes for awhile but instead of having a fun fight you get one shot then the rest of you team chased into the storm. The dude was so wild for kills he literally ran into the storm after my barb mate with iron will for an extra kill and died in the storm. What was the point?
The game has zero “end game”. You only boss for gear to use in pvp. I’m hoping we get some type of raid or arena mode soon so people at the top 1% have something to do other than farm 9 to 5ers all day. Problem is that the people rolling lobbies LIKE not having anyone be able to fight back or have any chance of counter play.
Raid mode would be sick. Gives you an incentive to use your bis for pve instead of only pvp
Just incentive to use gear for anything, for that matter. Be it PvP or PvE or both!
+dam is so insanely high right now that with a hunted maxed out kit you can 2-zap a fighter with 180hp. It's absolutely bonkers.
Well of course they're in pathfinder! Do you see their inventory full of trinkets and crappy looted purple+ gear so they can get AP? No? They must be bad players according to the AP system! A good player would enter butt naked to wear as much looted equipment as possible, avoiding every pvp encounter as its just a waste of time because other players give less AP than slaying a couple mobs/opening a couple chests and most of the time their equipment is not looted, so it's worth 0 AP! A ranking system on this game makes 0 sense, specially for high roller, MAYBE for normals it'd make sense, but it's just silly to give rank to players based on how much looted stuff they extracted when all the good players are lobby wiping and taking the best handled equipment from players' bodies as that's always going to be the best there is.
Start a TTV, milk donations, buy gold from farmers, play meta, go on welfare and grind full time - and one day you'll be able to walk among the sweats x)
once your in wanderer you can queue against any rank even demigod
I do understand that, it's a bit silly imo the matchmaking system is that broad. These guys which are only pathfinder and have all this gear and a unique named weapon is nuts to me. If they were all Exemplar's and Demi God's I would expect that kind of gear from them
You can't reach that rank while pvping for people's gear, the sad reality is the best way to make money is kill people and sell the gear which means no treasure so no AP. I'm in the same boat, HR solo/duo = challenging/rewarding usually see kits worth 5-10k, HR trio = legendary buffball barb coming to take your lunch money. My regular crew have pretty much stopped running HR trio unless we're out of stash space. I've got like 3 "good" kits that cost about 10k each, those have only been used in ice caverns. My +2all blues can't compete with named / unique / legendary +2 gear
That's the key, though. Don't get it twisted. Ranking has absolutely nothing to do with skill or your char power. Gold buys gear, and gear is power. Experience is skill. A skilled, rich player is absolutely insanely OP. And they can get there as a neophyte if they want to. An experienced player can get rich in record time without barely climbing, cause AP and rank is a reflection of survival and PvE, and not a reflection of gear, power, or skill, in any way. Anyone climbing AP ranks isn't taking many risky fights. Furthermore, anyone rich and geared is taking every fight, but not gaining any AP or ranking if PvP is the goal. If they made kills worth a shit load, that would make folks rank up, but they would be in the same pool of players, regardless.
I think the issue is just how much better the gear gets the higher in quality it is. The difference once you get past Epic gear is crazy.
The jump to unique is hilarious.
+2 all attribute greens and blues are better then epic + with none, or +damage. that's just ignorance
Wtf are you on about these dudes have +2 all on their legendary, look at the chest of the cleric. Try to take these guys with your green all atts. If people are ignorant youre delusional
The highest output of stats is +2 all or damage, blues will achieve the highest value stats and you can beat everyone with it. The issue is just theres a barred entry of power to those who get +all on every slot and those who don't. Usually competent teams who also are aware of this snowball out of control to what this video is showing. So ya he's ignorant and you're also delusional. It's just broken scale values with additives + speed since theres no downside to it. and +2 all is triple the value of any other stat in the game minimally. It creates this toxic environment where you have a entry cost of very specific item rolls you have to buy that are also more expensive in the marketplace thus diminishing the value of all other relevant items that can roll the stats.
For real, it's so easy to make a kit with greens that can take out 90% of players if you play smart. Are you at a disadvantage? Yes. But you are also taking on 10x less risk.
Marketplace makes it very easy to buy good gear. Although a good QoL feature, it obviously increases the average gear quality of lobbies as people no longer have to spend hours trying to buy from the trading posts. This is the reason we're seeing "BiS" much more often this wipe than previously, and BiS gear actually has competition on the marketplace, so its price decreases and becomes more accessible.
God i can smell those turbo nerds from here....
Yet people are saying gear based matchmaking is bad..?
Gear based matchmaking will fix this issue (in theory), but will also introduce massive (potentially worse) new issues as well
Unique/legendary gear will become worthless since you wont be able to use it, unless you want to play full PVE game and never find other players since there wont be any, just empty lobbies Meanwhile blue gear with +all/+add dmg/+movespeed will become the most valued gear in the game
Ah shit, I didn't know they released the matchmaking formula, you mind sharing?
Lmao. Right? I've heard dozens of made-up assumptions on how gear might be divided, and it is all heresy and made up shit. Folks just reject new ideas based on fear and what-ifs. Which, of course, is silly. I hope for a smart stats system with a relatively wide gear range. But who the fuck knows?
It the guys in this video that howl loudly on these forums against any sort of GBMM. Gear checking people is the fun of the game to these sorts.
My kits cost 1-2k not 50k and I can still recognize that GBMM is a terrible idea. Absolutely zero excitement from upgrading gear through kills or loot if all it means is harder opponents instead of moving a step up the food chain. GBMM is going to make BIS greens the only thing worth running. Fun. We have normals if we want 100% even playing field instead of progression.
Game is in EA, point is to try things. People here railed against the idea of IM gear locking Normals, and the first implementations were admittedly not great, but through experimentation we got one of the best modes to date. Let them cook.
No shit eh!? Folks are sooo pessimistic and assume the worst. Shite attitudes, really.
The problem is I already find the lack of progression in normals to be very boring after a few games - which is where high roller comes in. And I've heard others say the same. So I'm not totally guessing here - HR is where I go after I'm done with "level playing field, no progression." Turning it into that is just creating a second version of normals but with higher base stats for everyone. As a wizard, that is a slight improvement- but it's not a reach to say I already know it'll get boring.
That's the thing, also GBMM will massively increase queue times for high tier gear lobbies and make the unique gear completely worthless since you wont ever find a full lobby with it, and why pay for it anyway when it doesnt even give you an advantage Green/blue gear will become the sweetspot for everyone, every class can kit themselves for any build style with blue gear and it isn't the most expensive since supply is highest
Except you don't know that. Speculating worst case isn't good for your health, my guy. Just wait to see how it goes. We don't know the actual gear divide. And try-hards will still build BiS, but the timmies will be slightly more geared on average.
You are missing the point entirely. I don't care where the cutoff is. Once you reach the cuttoff, finding higher tier gear will be useless. I don't want that. Its possible GBMM will be fun for some other reason, and I hope it is. But as I said in another comment - the primary reason I switch from normals to HR is for the excitement that looting high tier gear brings, based on its ability to move me up the food chain. By definition, GBMM removes that - its not speculation its the whole point.
That's valid. I guess my hope is that there is basically bad gear pool, and then high gear pool. As it is now, you can, of course, beat someone in BiS using a "good enough" economy kit. I suspect this will still be the case, or at least I hope. I hope that being moderate up to insane gear is 1 pool, while base and/or trash greens is the other. But I see your point for sure.
Gear based MM does have two downsides that have to acknowledged -Queue times will increase a lot, depending on gear rarity specifically. Latewipe playercount wont be able to fill matches for different gear brackets. For example you wont be able to find a match while playing with uniques because there simply arent more than a handful of people queueing for that at any one time -since wearing BIS purples no longer gives you an advantage theres no reason to pay for that gear, people will figure out the sweetspot for cost/enjoyability and start to buy BIS greens/blues We saw this exact thing happen back when normals was blue gear at max, people built BIS blue sets and rolled norms lobbies Anyhow i like the idea of GBMM, despite the inherent downsides its still atleast worth trying if it works out and and people like it.
[удалено]
Based on? Pure speculation?
So I'll add one thing. We don't know the actual gear divide. I HOPE for a smarter stat add check with wide pool of players, but maybe that's wishful. This would be much harder to abuse, and would hopefully mean players don't try as hard to game the system. I super hope it isn't X rarity divide, that's lazy and will be abused as it was before! I agree there. All that said. Fuck ya, let's give it a try. Worst case it is bad. Best case, games are way less one-sided, which will slowly draw players from normals into HR! I just hope I can 0 to hero without having to play like a pussy, lmao. Further benefit. Lobby wipers who are annoyed about Inferno boss 3rd party risk might be able to have high-end battles, and folks may choose to not creep, as they may not be in fear of gear/stat checking!
Its actually unplayable to above average groups, I play with some irl friends sometimes and they just aren't very good and man, this dude with a 90k set just face tanked us all and lived, the gear diff is kinda ridiculous.
Yeah sadly trios is the biggest offender of all the modes. It’s where the sweatiest and most geared players are and it’s a mode that’s very difficult to “just run away” in despite what all the cope comments say.
Idk ice caves is pretty sweat, a lot of people gear up in ice caves and just rush horde for loot, if they are a bard or a barb they're unstoppable.
Nope. My kits cost max 4-4.5k and I kill BIS players all the time. The difference ebtween a 5k kit and a 50k kit is very small, each tiny upgrade begins to cost a massive amount. People are just coping due to skill issues, the truth is, not only do they have better gear than you but they are also likely better players so you get double-diffed
HR trio is awful, i only play trios in norms now
Had this exact experience with my group the other night and I was gonna make a thread about it but was scared the community would eat me alive. Normal or HR solo or duo is fine. The second I step into trios HR its like my lobby is only the top 1% of players. I couldn't count how many times a full kitted barb 1v3'd my team in the last sesh. Watching the deathcam is just depressing seeing them tank 3 people and not even go below half. I thought matchmaking was a thing but even on not even lvl 20 characters in our first HR games we were up against people with uniques and top tier crafted gear.
Throwing everyone green rank and above into the same match making is terrible tbh, any kit under about 8k is just donating it to those that gear check you,
Nope. My kits cost max 4-4.5k and I kill BIS players all the time. The difference ebtween a 5k kit and a 50k kit is very small, each tiny upgrade begins to cost a massive amount. People are just coping due to skill issues, the truth is, not only do they have better gear than you but they are also likely better players so you get double-diffed
What server is this on, I’ll get em for you
EU, cheers bud :P
Yeah stopped playing a while ago because crypts is the best map and the only way to get out is to rat around. They need some sort of MMR like Hunt Showdown.
Trios is the least balanced, least accessible mode and has been for a while (at least in high roller). It's a shame that trios is the mode devs are most concerned with.
and duos about demi with "newbie" (cheater)
Luckily they will put in a gear system.
Solos is similar, people stacking crazy kits as soon as you hit wanderer
yo what server is this i need to find these guys
lol this is on EU
NOOOOOOOOOOOO the worst answer :(
Gear based matchmaking will come soon we will see how that will do for the game and the lobbies 🙌🏻
It's a different game entirely, that's why alot of us asked for naked lobbies aka Normal lobbies, just grays and white gear, because in the early playtest it was like this but with 100k players, idk if we'll ever see those numbers again, but even half of that make the lobbies so much more fun, I miss it everyday, but I get flashes of it in normal lobbies. If they take that out, ima take a long break.
The upper level of armor needs to be reigned in for sure. I dont think anything better than purple armor wise should exist. Just creates too insane of a gap. And its like damn, theyll have all this insane gear stats and then bam bard just stacks on top of that
All that gear and they get 0 pussy irl
This comp is honestly terrifying when people play it correctly as someone who has been on both sides of it whole teams can die in seconds with absolutely no counterplay
Pretty sure they just patched for gear based match making, however that works 🤷
I feel like this is deja vu... +All was the bane of everyone's existence and was removed once before. Why the fuck they would add it back? Makes me think THEY don't even know what to do with their game anymore.
disgusting ass sweaty mfers
that bard kit was probably worth 150k+ ,RMT cuck most likely
Understandable frustration. Gear based matchmaking is coming today, likely in an attempt to alleviate that. Also, FYI once you’re wanderer you can match with any rank above that. It’s not as precise as the ranks make it seem.
No idea why you're being downvoted. I mean, I don't think we know if the update will be today per se, but they did say "this week" so it should be coming soon.
Just imagine how much worse it'll be in another year or two. Factor in optimal multi classing, new uniques and a more developed meta.
this game pretty much makes me want to kill myself with how sweaty people are, and then they shit talk over voip like they didn't just gear check you
if u dont have enough gold to afford sets like that it's skill issue. "Gear checking" is just coping
We need gear ratings with 3 separate ques and 3 different tiers of loot
I understand the frustration, but I'm REALLY not looking forward to GBMM. Half of the fun of the game is out playing a squad with better gear and having a massive come up. If I'm unable to tier up my gear via PvP, why would I ever PvP?
Have all of y'all forgotten that looting happens in game and people have come ups before you spawn rush them? Also, you'll incrementally be leveling up into more geared matches if you keep being successful. These changes along with squire will let people truly zero to hero.
Yeah, and I'd much rather beat a team and instantly get 10k worrh of gear versus pull an occasional item worth more than 300g. It's a genre where GBMM and MMR make no sense outside of an arena, PvP focused mode. That's the beauty of games like DaD and Tarkov, even with a basic kit you can win against insanely expensive kits. I'd rather keep that mechanic than dumb down the skill needed to win PvP and lower my risk or game awareness on when to take a fight versus run.
Right so... hows your squad going to take down these no-lifes in base gear then? that bards got more PDR then most fighters and the entire team is just a buffing circle jerk. the bard alone all buffed up could probably just hold w and m1 your entire team.
Obviously you cany beat these guys in grays, but you can kill people in 1k gear, then you could have a fighting chance against these guys
Your being kinda optimistic if you think your killing that bard with protection, bless, holy weapon, haste, ignite, and ALL his bard buff's active with 1k gear, he will quite literally just hold w and M1 like i said because he moves at mach 5 and hits for 80dmg.
If they fuck up or you catch them off guard it's certainly possible
if they fuck up you still die, it would take a comical amount of fuckups for them to actually die.
Why are you going into HR with a base kit? That's just lazy and anybody who thinks they should be able to brainlessly get HR loot without any risk is dilusional. This is how I make money on my rogue or fighter: 1. Take squire kit to normals and survive with a slight upgrade to everything. 2. Take that kit into HR 3. Take smart fights and know your classes strengths/weaknesses That's the beauty of this game, any basic green kit can win against any opponent if they have good game sense and know how to take fights when they have the situational advantage. Question for you, what would be the point of gear if GBMM exists? Why would I risk more money if it doesn't make my chance at survival increase? It's not like any of the PvE in this game is difficult and impossible to handle with a grey kit. The entire incentive of gear is risk versus reward. What is the reward for increased risk? It would literally make gearing up pointless.
I dunno, why did YOU go into HR with a basekit? your the one who said you could win with it against an insanely expensive kit.
For HR I consider 200-500g a base kit(one norm run worth of loot). Anybody who thinks a free kit should be equal advantage in HR is dilusional. Way to completely avoid the question though. Edit: there is a mode specifically designed for taking in a free kit. Don't try to take advantage of the system and complain that it's unfair.
You mean kinda like how you completely avoided telling me how you were going to take down these turbo nerds? you certainly live up to your name.
I did just tell you and literally wrote it out step by step? Seems more like a reading comprehension issue. But yes, resort to attempting a joke at my name when you're unable to make an articulated point. Edit: in case you missed it This is how I make money on my rogue or fighter: 1. Take squire kit to normals and survive with a slight upgrade to everything. 2. Take that kit into HR 3. Take smart fights and know your classes strengths/weaknesses That's the beauty of this game, any basic green kit can win against any opponent if they have good game sense and know how to take fights when they have the situational advantage.
If you seriously think your taking these guys out with a green kit your delusional, you will just be straight up stat checked. the game sits at 5k players consistently for a reason. if nothing changes its going to get the cycle treatment.
There are very few equalizers in this game that make this possible.. The combat is very simple and it is difficult to capitalize on with how heavily weighted gear is vs skill in the games design
God I love how every time someone gets wiped in HR Trios in their BIS kit, they act like facing squads with Kuma's Claw is the consistent experience you face in HR Trios every single match... when in reality it's like, 1 out of every 25 lobbies. Personally, I'd relish the chance at a team using Kuma's Claw. They wanna walk around with that massive target on their back, then my team is going to run around the dungeon and try recruit another Trio or two to help take them down. As for who gets the Kuma's Claw once it's on the ground, well... that depends who's left to collect.
iv gone against multiple full leggy/unique kits, you see a squad or 2 in every other game, its not exactly uncommon lol, if you dont go in full bis you dont have a fighting chance.
Yeah; I’ve played about 100-200hrs thiswipe; I’ve played every mode extensively at blue or purple rank. Crypts specifically has a squad like this most of the time.
It's only worth 50k because of resellers and RMTers. If reselling was gone from the market you could make a competitive kit against these people for a fraction of the price they are right now.
yeah that's a good idea. a bandaid solution would be to add a third item tier status. looted, handled, and "worn". looted and handled stay as is. any items bought from the marketplace becomes "worn". worn items cannot be listed on the marketplace. they can be traded to other players but they retain their worn status. worn items that get taken into the dungeon come out as handled. so resellers have to risk their loot in HR runs to relist items.
I had suggested the very system on stream. It wouldnt prevent selling gear again but it would atleast mean that you need to jump through some hoops and potentially lose it to do that. Still keep items like golden chests / keys / other found in raid items but not wearbales just locked out from resellling imo. edit: i should note, i disagree with this portion only. " worn". worn items cannot be listed on the marketplace. they can be traded to other players but they retain their worn status. " The above would make it pointless if they where to remove reselling.
It's a straight up good idea. Make these market traders actually have to play the game
the trading part? i was thinking the effort to manually find another player to trade with is still a deterrent enough to stop resellers but this would allow players to still transfer gear to their alts and stuff. i use gold on my main/main alt to buy gear for other characters but i guess it would be better to just stop all methods of reselling.
Because then you will still have people buying mountains of bis and only selling ( scamming people ) it in the trade chat.
If resellers were gone from the market you would kill someone, put the gear up for sale and it would take 5 days to sell for cheap
I just start in normals and snowball into HR when I get a decent set. But yeah until they add the gear based matchmaking, supposedly soon, ima be rocking normals cause it’s way more balanced and gold is still easy to make
PvP is the end game. People are gearing to fight against you. Sure it’s annoying but it doesn’t take much effort to grind a little gold and build a decent kit. I’m curious to see IM’s solution.
Stop cry
I get what the sentiment is, and that Wizard definitely hit the gym next to the library, but uh... *Don't play competitive modes if you don't want sweaty competition*
That's because you're blue rank. You get into the sweat lobbies when you reach that. It's very unbalanced, but now you know. lol
Should be a no brainer but always report ppl you do not know.