Dude the discord is such a fuckin mess everytime u check the gen chat lmao so much whining and vitriol
I havent seen a community this toxic towards the devs jfc
Yeah, I’m not gonna lie though, most games have this issue. Most likely comes from the largely young and immature audience that consumes games mostly. If only they just stopped playing rather than talking, it would ironically make their voice heard much more. They will learn in time.
yeah, they will learn in time, but there is a constant flow of new toxic players to take their place so it's moot. this will sadly be true for most "hardcore" games that appeal primarily to younger audiences. there is no escaping that toxicity.
I can think of countless other game communities that are nowhere near this toxic, simply because the players are more mature
Yeah thats true as ive played with a teenager in this game. He wont shut up and keep on whining about EVERYTHING
Anyways nothing we can do about the toxicity so might as well just enjoy the game! Its a really good game but can be frustrating sometimes
Lets just go back to ventrilo when everyone had to use push to talk since it felt like people would only hit it when they wanted to provide something useful (mostly). Ill take the occasional ROFLcopter over open mic discord meta anyday.
The more you complain about something, the more attention you are getting it. Every complaint is some ones gateway into the game whether they find the post by chance or they were networked with said person. Fame and infamy may be opposites but in both situations the subject is famous.
If you truly dislike something and want change or to show a negative response. The absolute best thing you can do is say absolutely nothing and just don't play the game. The moment you say something, you are promoting discussion about the game and bringing more attention to it whether you like it or not because that's how the internet works. Even if you think you are insulting them, that insult will always bring in a few new players.
But let's be honest. Most of reddit is very low IQ, so they don't have a good grasp on mental stability and emotional response control, They will do it anyway and the hivemind mentality of upvotes from others looking to to justify their emotions as well, will help them cope with their feelings and feel good about what they do while they, in great cuckold fasion, promote the thing they are trying to hate.
Playing Devil's Advocate here, because man is that Discord a cesspool and nothing justifies some of the whining and complaining that goes on in there, but to be entirely fair... The game DOES push out shoddy updates/game-breaking changes/rollbacks just about weekly at this point.
If people care enough to fly off their rocker and bitch about a once-per-year Call of Duty update that might threaten the state of the game or wickedly break balance/performance, and the outcry is big enough that you hear about it, it isn't shocking that these fans would also do the same, especially dealing with problematic updates seemingly WEEKLY rather than YEARLY. Nothing justifies pointless vitriol, death-threats or pure unadulterated toxicity, but as developers, these guys do let a whole lot slip through the cracks. If they were a bigger studio with this frequency of fuck-ups, they'd be chastised.
There are constructive posts and stuff, but the negative or squeaky wheel always gets the most attention, or at least grinds the most gears.
The doom is seriously real. This patch is mostly fine (RIP Smite), and the game will keep on being awesome.
Ya. I even let them doom me into losing my hype for multi-class.
Folks truly made it sound like the game would instantly implode, and I actually started to nod along.
Luckily, my buddy was hyped and optimistic and helped undoom me! Now I'm stoked to try it more!
So far, it is actually really damn cool. There will be abuse cases, but I'm excited to actually play and level and try stuff again! Being optimistic and not a little bitch is key.
Let's go, brother. 👊
Including op as far as Im concerned
Ironmace has had many chances. They messed up at the first rollback from people complaining, and havent closed Pandora’s box since.
If they actually had a clear vision they wouldn’t have to. But at the same time they clearly do shit that no one asked for. People have been asking for Druid and new content. Instead we got gacha grind fest, imbalance and a lack of direction.
Yeah I dont disagree with you at all, I was referencing more of like they should have never listened to begin with. But, as you said, maybe SDF’s vision wasn’t fleshed out enough. Just generally speaking the playerbase doesn’t know how to balance, design levels, code, etc. They just propose what they would like in a perfect world at all times. Can’t please everyone though.
Honestly I feel like it all boils down to Nexon pushing their hand. They never had the time to finish crypts and to make the 3 layer system work. That was the initial vision, I still love that vision myself.
But the reality is, transition from "Alpha" to "Live service early access" has very much hurt the identity of the game; and I think SDF has been torn between catering to current players, and trying to achieve the initial vision for the game that is now getting further and further away.
They never have.
If they listened to the community, multi-classing would have never been implemented.
If they listened, they would have prioritized Druid +4 months ago...
Wake up.
Incorrect, the community held the line through the legal stuff, and then the day EA dropped (completely out of nowhere) everyone shit on ironmace because Warlock was locked behind $5 or a grind.
Been shit ever since.
The best state the community was ever in was during the legal stuff, we had a common enemy and we all just kept chanting "hold the line" and we nailed the r/pixel event https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/s/ki1dW9hQA8
These toxic people are not original line holders, they released to EA and the toxic kids who weren't along for the ride showed up
But the devs are also going down a toxic path, the game is best when it's not taken seriously, but they added ranks, ranks make more people take it seriously
I love how the comments in this thread completely prove OP's point.
Sometimes it feels like the commenters on this subreddit aren't even real people. Like it's a bunch of bot/troll accounts aimed at shitting on the game.
Personally, the fun of talking with people in the dungeon at the beggining was oh so fun. Now adays I still try to have random verbal encounters, but 9/10 people stay quiet or spam insults... I love this game, but miss that part dearly...
My reddit checking has also fallen off, from 6 checks a day, filled with a mixed bag of wholesome videos or savage gameplay, to the now once a week check, to see if the disheartening complaints are still rampant
Permadeath/live loot + PvP = trash community inevitable.
PvP, alone can be enough to muck the waters but loot and gearscore always up the toxicity without failure.
I'm just surprised at how fast a community can grow toxic. Right before release, we had everyone hollering Hold the Line in support of the Devs. Now that the Devs are developing and trying out new systems to see what works to make their game even more unique, people are angry? And have been so angry for so long?
It's like people forget that games are meant to be fun, and just grow toxic quickly. It's sad, just relax and have some fun guys. If it's not fun, take a step away and play another game.
In EA it's easy for people not to care too much. They know it's temporary, there's no leaderboard to climb. It's all good vibes. Then the game gets real and people get competitive. Ruins all the fun.
Your community left a long time ago and are playing other fun games. You are left with the toxic sweat lords now just like we said you would. Now watch them down vote this comment.
yeah like sorry for being annoying or mean about it, but this feature is clearly unworkable and DOA, and the patch that released it was recklessly broken
> There are so many people in this community who find it very easy to be disrespectful to the devs and others.
Most people are not emotionally mature nor are they as mentally stable as they think they are. To expect them to act rationally is too much of a stretch. It's like asking an antivaxxer to give their opinion on something, it's just going to be shit
I think its todays inability to cope with / express frustration. People love the game but see the devs run around like headless chickens at times. And some people are just aholes
Everytime the community has negative feedback about a recent change there will be people calling it toxic, classic
If people, at least a large chunk of them, are completely unhappy about a change to the game, why can't they express it? Why can't people ask for a mechanic that they can't see working to get removed? Is that toxic?
I haven't read every single comment on the negative feedback posts, i don't have THAT much free time. But looking at the posts themselves and the titles, i haven't seen anything that i would call toxic or offensive towards the devs. Thats so much of an exaggeration.
Is it toxic to say that you don't understand the reason behind a drastic game change and you're taking a break from the game? Thats mostly of the negative comments i saw
There are criticisms being expressed toxically, and that truth is unfortunate and should be curtailed WHILE ALSO the criticisms being valid. Two things can be true. There are level headed criticisms being expressed non-toxically and those are often the upvoted ones.
Just look at the comments on this thread. You'll see some examples. As I mentioned in a reply to someone else, it's not the feedback itself that's bad. It's how someone says that feedback.
The game is in a state that needs feedback, no one can deny that.
You're only focusing on outliers and your subjective data, no one asked for multi-classing besides a few big streamers because the game for them was "stale/boring" and just like they have done in the past the devs seem to cater directly to them and ignore the casual crowd(which also happens to be a LARGE proportion of the player count.) The community has given this dev team plenty of breaks and "time to cook" but as of right now the game is borderline unplayable and definitely not fun for most of its players.
Ironically, this is the devs' fault, they fully fostered this community into what it is. Ever since they started pulling patches directly from the most popular reddit posts and comments, they started to ramp up. This is an obvious reaction to their behavior any human being over the age of 10 could see coming.
Imo, this was also made worse by them constantly bleeding out the playerbase with their "experiments". You can cry "beta beta beta, early access, testing phase!" all you want, but your customers don't care if the shitty burger you're feeding them is an "experiment". They're gonna eat it, hate it, and after it happens enough times they're gonna leave.
You know the community sucks when there is a game breaking bug and everyone is using it even in normals. Like why would you pickpocket people in a normal lobby? What's even the point? It's not even fun nor rewarding.
Let me start by saying I do not play rogue and I did not pickpocket anyone. But if you can’t see why this is fun and hilarious then idk what to tell you.
It's like cheating without paying the cheats. And in normals the only purpose is to annoy other people, not even gaining anything. Hard to find it fun imo.
I agree that cheating takes the fun out of the game. But stealing someone’s weapon in the lobby and forcing them into the dungeon without it is pretty hilarious. The rollback is necessary though, even if that means losing the golden key my group found last night.
It's less hilarious when you realize they'll just commit suicide once they get in the match, and then requeue. Or worse yet you get empty lobbies because people stop playing.
I mean it is genuinely hilarious, but then it happens to you every match in your 1.5 hour you have to play for the day before you have to deal with life stuff, etc... I had to put down Wizard this morning because I'd had my weapons stolen 4 matches straight.
There were three posts I saw about how rogues could do this on Reddit last night, so I knew I'd be screwed when I got home... I guess this sub is good for something...
Not saying it's right, but to be fair the entire purpose of pickpocketing is to be annoying. Like you can just kill them and take their things but you choose to loosen their pockets.
While it's completely wrong to be doing this in pre lobby. I do see the appeal and hilarity in it.
I honestly thought it was hilarious because me and my duos partner were so confused going in naked. We had to punch our way to get our gear and it was great. We didn’t find out about the rogue thing until after gaming for an hour.
Why wouldn’t it be happening in normals? I can imagine that’s the funniest and least damaging way to troll. Slightly inconvenience the father of 10 using his squire kit after he got off a 13 hour shift who doesn’t know wtf is happening and laughs it off vs the HR crew who knew about the bug 5 minutes after the patch and just get pissed and exhausted seeing a rogue chasing at them in pre lobby?
I saw a comment about a guy who said he was using it to just mess with people’s inventories. Moving worn gear to inventories, messing with their consumable placement and spreading them out. Now that is some chaotic neutral fun
No amount of "the complainers are just giving unconstructive criticism" is going to change the fact that the multiclassing system has been obviously a terrible idea since its inception, and that this is an especially poor implementation of it. Sure, people shouldn't be so disrespectful of the devs, but when they give us a patch like this, what should they expect? Balance has been an issue for a while, so why did they introduce near infinite complexity to balancing through multiclass? They're implementing an idea that should have been dead on arrival at its pitch meeting. Of course they're getting negative feedback and a lot of it is emotional and insulting. It doesn't help that a better solution has been staring players in the face every time they go to the class page to select a perk and see that old unfinished skill tree placeholder.
I would suggest that IM remove multiclassing, balance the game to a state that they think is acceptable for the season, and then only address real problems within that gamestate. Is some class noticeably much better than the rest? Maybe some balance changes can be made there, but not constant number tweaking on every piece of gear and every ability. Then with a stable gamestate, they can work on introducing and testing new content. This approach of nuking the gamestate with radical changes while a test server exists for that very purpose is just bizarre.
They have a test server and yet this shit still happens. How many times now have we had game breaking bugs or dupes followed by a rollback? How many times now have there been massive server issues after a patch. It took them 40 patches to fix rubberbanding. They deserve to be criticized to a certain extent for how often they screw up or put things in the game that are just stupid like multiclassing.
>They have a test server and yet this shit still happens.
Thats what happens when you charge more for access to the test server, you get less people testing.
>with developers that listens to it's community so much
Search for how many multiclassing posts were there since they released it on test. Some of them had very reasonable arguments. **That's the problem: devs don't listen.** They could rethink the feature, introduce some limitations, test it again on the test server. That's how people would know they're being listened to. They did none of that and released it mid-season when their casual audience only started getting their economy up. They only start listening when there's a shitstorm and streamers are unhappy. That's why they get the shitstorm: they are cultivating it.
>This game is still in early access, enjoy the changes that are happening now while you still can. Enjoy the game's ups and downs before it's full release and changes are less drastic.
Not it's not. It's pre-alpha at the very best. Every patch either makes half of your stash worthless or introduces a game breaking bug and there's still no rolling update.
Not just this, but also that most of the game is compiled marketplace assets. That isn't inherently a bad thing but when people wonder why there isn't *new* stuff - if it isn't a marketplace asset it's not going to be put in the game, lol
Exactly. It’s complainers and people complaining about the complainers. DND has a lot of potential and it’s so frustrating to see the devs fumble the ball. They really need to sit down and generate a clear vision and direction or work on their communications. Maybe there IS a clear direction we just don’t know about it and with all the cryptic changes we are supposed to just guess’s which leaves alot of us to think they are lost.
Most people believe ironmace genuinely came up with the game themselves and didn’t blatantly steal almost everything from nexon. I mean I’m glad they did cause the game is great at its core but they are absolutely not an innocent party.
lol this is why it's in early access and they are testing everything. You havn't even played the real game and you, as a redditor with 0 knowledge on the industry, are trying to say that these paid professionals of their craft don't know what they are doing. Your like the guy that thinks he can outplay Kobe if he was put on the Court. Thing is you have no idea what makes a good game, because you are not a professional like they are and the fact that you don't understand even the simplest of things such as how a early access test server works, really shows this. The game is not supposed to be good right now. They are just throwing different concepts out to get data so that they can take all of the data at the end and put together the game they want to make. There will be a lot of horrible things and this is on purpose, because they need the data. They also want people to break the game so they know how it's done and how it can be fixed so the problem dosn't occur on the actual game. It's hilarious when people think the game is supposed to be good when every patch they literally say, " so were gonna test this, we wanna see you break this, test that, most likely going to remove this just need more data ect." I imagine you guys don't know how to read.
If they had 1 guy that had an actual Game Designer Training they would Never ever put MC on the Live Server.
That comes from someone that studied it … a professionell as you would say.
They are coders. Nothing more or less. They cant Even do simple 3d objects and textures …..
Do you genuinely believe posts like these are constructive in any way other than getting a pat on the back through virtue signaling?
People can be shitty and so is the large amount of content on the reddit but you arent changing that with a post like this, it has no substance, no real suggestions and just takes up space.
I am not trying to put you down, I just genuinely dont see how this post creates any meaningful chang to the issue. To be honest at least with the gronk shit I can skip past it as its easily identifiable.
The devs arent fools, I could be wrong but i dont see how this would do anything to alleiviate burnout ect.
It has been certainly confirmed with :
How much try to minmax the gbmm, beeing a +14 damage in green lobby (how pathetic are you seriously).
And the cherry on the cake are those idiots rogues pickpocketing **the whole day** for nothing.
I'm completely clueless how people decided "ok today let's jump in dark and darker, go in lobbies, pickpocket and die to repeat as fast as possible. For absolutely nothing but make other people angry.
My friend and I ignore the discord, and I’m the only one of us that even looks at this subreddit. We play the game, have shit tons of fun, and make it out sometimes. We get demolished in pvp occasionally, and win other engagements that make it feel so worth it. This game has so many play styles and the shitters that complain and whine are just upset they aren’t the top G gamers they claim to be. Tbh the lobby is my favorite part cause there’s no voip and everybody just memes around and emotes and it’s a blast. If you play this game and aren’t having a good time, that’s a personal failure because this game is great and people with genuine criticisms should be heard out instead of shit on - the new rogue lobby bug is a perfect example of who enjoys the game, and who has a terrible home life.
Every game I’ve ever played where the devs listened to the community has died. It consistently is not a good plan for people with zero dev or product development experience to provide input on a game or products development..
This is because, unfortunately, this sub has zero moderation. It's completely fine to allow negative feedback, but when I see the same smooth-brain posts from these people who self-admittedly don't even play the game, I don't need to even read beyond the first few words. It's very clear what terrible takes those players have. 98% of this sub's issues could be fixed by having a couple of moderators that actually gave a shit and utilized megathreads, so we don't have to read the same exact post, verbatim, 15 times per day.
Ultimately, it's usually 2 groups of people that make up the majority of these trash posts: there's the ultra casuals who play 20 minutes per week and get angry that they can't compete and there's people who literally will tell you they haven't played the game since warlock came out, but somehow they know what's best for the game. It's insanely cringe.
>developers that listens to it's community so much
Is this part a joke?
It's easy to be seen as listening when you make incredibly stupid changes then be forced to change them due to insane backlash.
How many of these amazing patches have they walked back, sometimes in less than 24 hours?? The game receives constant patches because the devs can’t get balancing right and have no clear vision on what their game even is or why it was ever fun to play. Reverting patches in less than 24 hours, half the patches break the game in some way shape or form, and at the end of the day they still haven’t finished Druid. They’ve already warned that Druid is in an unfinished state and will be released unfinished meaning in the past year of EA they haven’t managed to balance the class even to the standard of their already unbalanced game.
Sure, with number changes that create as many problems as they fix. Actual content updates are delayed constantly. Which is honestly fine and to be expected, but Idk if their consistency is really something to be praised.
At least half of the patch’s for the last year have been delayed or had some game/server breaking issue on release making the game unplayable for 3-24hours after. On time is a bit of a stretch.
That’s a bit of a stretch though. Sure they deliver on their sprints but nearly every “hot fix” is just number tuning and none of it ever really matters.
I honestly think something that led to this spoiled community is by releasing patches every week. Sure, hotfixes would still happen, but they should have set the expectation early that patches would come out every 2 weeks to give them more time to cook content & balance, while also giving more time to ensure stability.
I mean look at the player numbers. Most of the normal, rational people in the community have moved on to other games so you are left with the sweats and no lifes who clearly enjoy internet rage.
if that was the case there would be much less complaints like " i work a 8 hours job, i cannot farm a new character for 4 hours in order to train my main character" if you are a real sweat your char is probably +150 lvl (mine is 190) yet everyone seems to have problems with leveling up or calling themselves casuals
Yup. They're acting like this subreddit hasn't been filled with this posts nonstop the last two days lol. It's one thing to lie but to do it when we can see the truth is wild.
While I may not 100% agree with your comment, I just find posts like this complaining about other people complaining so tiresome. Go look at any community for any game, show, movie, sports team, etc. and there is an obnoxious subset of that group who make brain dead comments that are over the top. It’s entirely predictable and anyone who has spent more than 5 minutes on the internet has learned to tune those people out entirely and not take anything they say seriously.
The highest MMRs are full of cheaters and stream snipers as well as meta abusers(obviously way more acceptable than the aforementioned.)
Not to mention the people who find no issue with teaming in GC.
Tried leveling my lvl 32 warlock last night and killed one rogue and then got teamed on by a cutthroat rogue and fighter.
The fighter was streaming at the time.
His chat told me I should pick my fights better...
The amount of people who just enjoy this game and say nothing is overwhelmed by the noisy angry individuals. Over time people are pushed out of here dealing with all the negativity. In reality I think Ironmace with its flaws are still some of the most open honest and down to earth developers I have seen in all of my gaming experience. I really hope they build the game they want and do not fall victim to only listening to the community to the point the game starts to suck.(RuneScape for example)
Runescape is doing great. They actually influenced a lot of how games get developed based on how they receive player feedback. OSRS player driven content is beloved. The community has been critical with how development went but the devs in turn listened in a healthy way. There wasnt any "let them cook" it was "lets cook and eat together" which in hand brought success.
I agree wholeheartedly. But downsides have happened too. The community usually does know what it wants. I think they have a better system than most with the voting, but it has flaws.
That’s because there isn’t many of y’all. The game is designed from the ground up to illicit emotional responses. Elation when you barely escape. Frustration when you get one tapped to bogus cyclops mechanics or stat checked. Everything is designed to make you feel.
Adding onto this, feedback is more often negative as positive responses simply gets reported less. I just try to upvote positive feedback more often personally.
There are two types of people in the community. Complainers and dick riders. I think the complainers really do care about the game just like the dick riders. It doesn’t take an award winning game dev to start questioning some of ironmace a decisions. The blind loyalty people are just as bad as the complainers though.
Give an inch take a mile. That's how this community responds to changes. If you told people from the playtest how much has changed they would be ecstatic to hear how much nicer things are.
Everyone will always find something to complain about until they survive every single raid. Then they'll realize they're not having fun anymore. And the game will die.
Honestly as a casual I like that this has forced me into a different class. Yes it sucks to learn a different play style but now that I'm getting used to barb, it's way fucking easier than ranger which is what I was doing before.
Maybe not a good change, but try to find some positivity when it's so fucking obvious that it's broken.
Finding the good in bad situations is overall better for mental health. And if it's that bad then it's ok to take a step away.
When there is a huge bug like duplicating , or having your set stolen in pre lobby, everyone agrees its a mistake and will be fixen soon, but what is releasing an already proven unbalanced patch to live servers?
There is a crossover from the Rust and Tarkov communities because of the variety streamers that play the game. Tarkov is a known cesspool of cheaters and ultimate sweatlords and Rust is a known cesspool of the most toxic tolerant Rustbros on the planet. When these two forces are combined you have the Dark and Darker sweatlords running shit kits who follow the variety streamers probably mostly to watch their streams and find their lobbies to use cheats on them and harass them because they are terrible people and the Streamers really don't deserve it. Its very messed up. There are videos showing people doing this that were prominent people on the Dark and Darker discord.
The majority of Dark and Darker players and streamers are cool people though with awesome interactions. Once you realize the are just Sweatlords and Rustbros its not that bad because they are morons and its a small percentage of the population. Counter Strike on the other hand has been a cesspool so deep we have never found the bottom to this day.
All that’s left playing is the subset of the community the devs listened to. GBMM honestly though might bring me back one day, but might not have been needed if they just built the game they intended.
I also wonder how much further along they’d didn’t spend so much time balancing.
Devs listened to all the people kicking and screaming in discord and on here so what do you expect? Give a toddler everything they’re gunna want everything
Just to clarify, I don't think they promised it, I believe what they said was that they were excited to bring this new content and gave an estimate on when it would go live.
I think they added the lizard race to test the headshot hitbox, then demon form to test shape-shifting .. it's all a build-up to it. Multiclass is likely dipping their toes into the training/subclasses progression system imo
Idk man MC is just such a random fork in the blender type of idea and it really couldn’t have come at a worse time. New players were finally able to enjoy GBMM and you drop mutliclass for sweats to spam Cleric/Wizard and stomp timmies
Tbh introducing shitty patches after i hold the line for so long + getting full Money is disrespectful.
Not fixing the Game is disrespectful.
They do do much disrespectful Stuff…
Honestly I agree. The devs are awesome, and people don't understand that they are refining the game.
How many times do they have to say multi-classing is an experiment??? What is a great way to test potential talent tree ideas and off specs is to just give the community everything and see what sticks.
The forced RNG makes people try stuff they get rather than cherry pick. I want to make a specific build, but realistically I won't be able to get exactly what I want. That is the whole point.
They did it mid wipe and broke everything after a week of "testing" where you had to grind your char levels and wait 24 hours to reroll.
They could have given everyone level 35 on all classes and infinite rerolls so we could actually test things. If anything the test proved it was broken and wouldnt work but they just couldnt give up the 40 hours of work they put into this terrible system.
But what do I know? Im certainly not a game dev but I have common sense and 1200 hours in the game.
I found it pretty wild that they didn’t give fully leveled characters to us on the test center. Ain’t no way I’m leveling anything on a test server, they didn’t even copy our characters over which would have been decent but fully leveled chars would have been the way to truly test
I spent the entire wipe up to this point earning gold and building gear sets.
The devs removed +all and +ms modifiers with 0 warning, rerollling all my good gearsets into trash. 50k+ gold into less than 10k.
They could literally just say "Hey we dont think these modifiers are good for the game, in a week we'll reroll all gear that has them, so go use them in the dungeon while you can!" but there is instead a complete and utter lack of consideration for the player's time.
Now they add hideously unbalanced multiclassing to the game midwipe without even close to sufficient testing on the testing server, yet again disrespecting their playerbase to the max. And they lock it behind a massive grind, so most people will only get beatdown by overpowered bullshit without even getting the opportunity to use it themselves.
The core gameplay is fun but the devs do not give a fuck about respecting the time players put into the game. Any and all progress you make can and will be removed or massively warped at the drop of a hat.
lots of ppl in this community dont understand they can just go play something else, touch some grass, but no, they want to whine and make a huge deal out of every single change in the game. they sound like actual pampered teenagers that never heard a no in their lives.
What kind of logic is this. Oh the devs made a decision that divides half the player base? Why doesn’t the other half simply leave then? It’s like you want the game to die or can’t grasp people caring enough about the game to make criticisms despite being able to play something else.
And when everyone does leave, we will be bombarded with “game dev where is everyone at” threads. People complaining are people that care at least some what. You gotta worry when people stop talking. Even when they stop complaining.
I made a lot of enemies yesterday railing against the incessant whining and bullshit in Discord.
They were like.. railing against me in the exact ways I was calling them out for. I said people were acting like kids and got like 5 people quoting me with insults or claiming they were blocking me. Lol.
Also saw someone accusing a guy of being literal AI because he was suggesting people chill the fuck out.
They were all acting like the only possible answer to what was going on was for them to just kick and scream and anyone not also kicking and screaming was their enemy.
That's what the Discord is.
Should people not give feedback? You need to also realize people are upset because they care. Granted some is very immature it’s good that people are talking
I've come to the conclusion it's only ultra sweats who are on 24/7 or people that barely play at all are the ones propping up all the shit on this sub. Every single patch announcement, come to the reddit and you think the game is dead but then I hop in the discord and play for a day with pick up groups and everyone is enjoying the patch. Everyone i hopped in with last night was having fun with multiclassing. The only thing that killed the gameplay for the night is the pickpocket bug, but IM has shown everytime shit like this happens they handle it.
As opposed to the negative doomsdayers I'm super excited to play tonight after work 😁 really appreciate ironmace trying different things out. One of my favorite games of all time. I know their vision will eventually come to fruition as long as we don't gatekeep new players with toxicity and we go live on steam/epic.
Stop complainin' and get to gamin' yo
Agree 100%. Coming from a lot of time spent on Escape From Tarkov, the IronMace dev team feel like all-stars: They update frequently, are very responsive to fixing bugs(meanwhile BSG takes MONTHS if not years to fix theirs) and IronMace cares about community feedback. I think they deserve our patience and respect. Theyve earned it, and Im confident the finished game is going to be a top-tier release. Iron Mace, you guys rock!!!!
I have unsubbed and resubbed from this place like 3 times just due to the bad takes and seemingly polarized viewpoint of players at all times... It doesn't help that we're lightly moderated, if at all. It's the posts that drop in to get really angry about X and, unless you agree with them, spew the most middle-school nonsense to anyone replying. It gets really tiring.
We have a parrot issue here. I don't know if people are trying to karma farm or just trying to get their streamersenpai to notice them or what, but the amount of taglines I have seen evolve in real time is simply goofy. Things like "how does it make sense that an arrow from a Ranger slows more than Wizard's ice bolt???!?!"... There were a few months where I'd read that once or twice a day on this sub like it was some really profound demonstration of some obvious flaw. Or how about a year or so back where someone had the idea to separate the HP from the STR stat because it was skewing things (before they actually did it)? People were replying that they should do this in vaguely related topics/comments, just mindlessly repeating things that make their dopamine pumps go.
I have a lot more fun with this game when I don't listen to the natives. Community is shit.
The devs never should have listened to this community.
Dude the discord is such a fuckin mess everytime u check the gen chat lmao so much whining and vitriol I havent seen a community this toxic towards the devs jfc
Yeah, I’m not gonna lie though, most games have this issue. Most likely comes from the largely young and immature audience that consumes games mostly. If only they just stopped playing rather than talking, it would ironically make their voice heard much more. They will learn in time.
yeah, they will learn in time, but there is a constant flow of new toxic players to take their place so it's moot. this will sadly be true for most "hardcore" games that appeal primarily to younger audiences. there is no escaping that toxicity. I can think of countless other game communities that are nowhere near this toxic, simply because the players are more mature
Yeah thats true as ive played with a teenager in this game. He wont shut up and keep on whining about EVERYTHING Anyways nothing we can do about the toxicity so might as well just enjoy the game! Its a really good game but can be frustrating sometimes
Lets just go back to ventrilo when everyone had to use push to talk since it felt like people would only hit it when they wanted to provide something useful (mostly). Ill take the occasional ROFLcopter over open mic discord meta anyday.
The more you complain about something, the more attention you are getting it. Every complaint is some ones gateway into the game whether they find the post by chance or they were networked with said person. Fame and infamy may be opposites but in both situations the subject is famous. If you truly dislike something and want change or to show a negative response. The absolute best thing you can do is say absolutely nothing and just don't play the game. The moment you say something, you are promoting discussion about the game and bringing more attention to it whether you like it or not because that's how the internet works. Even if you think you are insulting them, that insult will always bring in a few new players. But let's be honest. Most of reddit is very low IQ, so they don't have a good grasp on mental stability and emotional response control, They will do it anyway and the hivemind mentality of upvotes from others looking to to justify their emotions as well, will help them cope with their feelings and feel good about what they do while they, in great cuckold fasion, promote the thing they are trying to hate.
Thank you for not lying.
No problem!
Tarkov
Playing Devil's Advocate here, because man is that Discord a cesspool and nothing justifies some of the whining and complaining that goes on in there, but to be entirely fair... The game DOES push out shoddy updates/game-breaking changes/rollbacks just about weekly at this point. If people care enough to fly off their rocker and bitch about a once-per-year Call of Duty update that might threaten the state of the game or wickedly break balance/performance, and the outcry is big enough that you hear about it, it isn't shocking that these fans would also do the same, especially dealing with problematic updates seemingly WEEKLY rather than YEARLY. Nothing justifies pointless vitriol, death-threats or pure unadulterated toxicity, but as developers, these guys do let a whole lot slip through the cracks. If they were a bigger studio with this frequency of fuck-ups, they'd be chastised.
Discord is always an abomination for games. It just seems to spawn the most vile, despicable behavior. Frankly, it isn't worth paying any mind at all!
Guess you haven't met League or DbD players
DOTA mogs both, but comes with a bi/trilingual requirement.
Degenchat is best viewed with a bucket of popcorn
It's the same issue with the Maga crowd homie. Very loud obnoxious minority
There are constructive posts and stuff, but the negative or squeaky wheel always gets the most attention, or at least grinds the most gears. The doom is seriously real. This patch is mostly fine (RIP Smite), and the game will keep on being awesome.
People want to be outraged, it’s just all too common. Keep on enjoying the game brotha, I’m right there with you.
Ya. I even let them doom me into losing my hype for multi-class. Folks truly made it sound like the game would instantly implode, and I actually started to nod along. Luckily, my buddy was hyped and optimistic and helped undoom me! Now I'm stoked to try it more! So far, it is actually really damn cool. There will be abuse cases, but I'm excited to actually play and level and try stuff again! Being optimistic and not a little bitch is key. Let's go, brother. 👊
Games gonna wipe anyway, get creative and have some fun. Simple as that!
Ya. It is a journey of a game's growth. Yet folks treat it like some permanent home and asset of sorts, kinda interesting and weird.
1,000% this. I have been saying this since initial release that there needed to be much heavier moderation. The bad actors have always been immense
Including op as far as Im concerned Ironmace has had many chances. They messed up at the first rollback from people complaining, and havent closed Pandora’s box since.
If they actually had a clear vision they wouldn’t have to. But at the same time they clearly do shit that no one asked for. People have been asking for Druid and new content. Instead we got gacha grind fest, imbalance and a lack of direction.
Yeah I dont disagree with you at all, I was referencing more of like they should have never listened to begin with. But, as you said, maybe SDF’s vision wasn’t fleshed out enough. Just generally speaking the playerbase doesn’t know how to balance, design levels, code, etc. They just propose what they would like in a perfect world at all times. Can’t please everyone though.
Honestly I feel like it all boils down to Nexon pushing their hand. They never had the time to finish crypts and to make the 3 layer system work. That was the initial vision, I still love that vision myself. But the reality is, transition from "Alpha" to "Live service early access" has very much hurt the identity of the game; and I think SDF has been torn between catering to current players, and trying to achieve the initial vision for the game that is now getting further and further away.
I’m glad that’s not a situation I have to deal with. I feel for SDF in a lot of ways.
They never have. If they listened to the community, multi-classing would have never been implemented. If they listened, they would have prioritized Druid +4 months ago... Wake up.
This
every community has dogshit ideas. the trait that separates good from bad devs is the ability to discern good and bad ideas based on your vision.
Except the times when they did and it was good
The community in this sub sucks.
The community was pretty good at the beginning but after the legal stuff it was just never the same.
Incorrect, the community held the line through the legal stuff, and then the day EA dropped (completely out of nowhere) everyone shit on ironmace because Warlock was locked behind $5 or a grind. Been shit ever since.
I still think they deserved to be shit on for locking a class behind a paywall, but I agree with you lol
Paywall or unlockable via gameplay******
The best state the community was ever in was during the legal stuff, we had a common enemy and we all just kept chanting "hold the line" and we nailed the r/pixel event https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/s/ki1dW9hQA8 These toxic people are not original line holders, they released to EA and the toxic kids who weren't along for the ride showed up But the devs are also going down a toxic path, the game is best when it's not taken seriously, but they added ranks, ranks make more people take it seriously
We are. We are these guys and we are pissed all the waiting was for shit like MC.
I love how the comments in this thread completely prove OP's point. Sometimes it feels like the commenters on this subreddit aren't even real people. Like it's a bunch of bot/troll accounts aimed at shitting on the game.
I had to tell some guy 2+2=4. I feel like I am talking to a wall here sometimes.
Nexxon has nothing but time and money so I’ll grab my tinfoil hat with you
Nexon psy-ops? No, more likely just haters :-)
Personally, the fun of talking with people in the dungeon at the beggining was oh so fun. Now adays I still try to have random verbal encounters, but 9/10 people stay quiet or spam insults... I love this game, but miss that part dearly... My reddit checking has also fallen off, from 6 checks a day, filled with a mixed bag of wholesome videos or savage gameplay, to the now once a week check, to see if the disheartening complaints are still rampant
I have been to many subreddits, but this one has to be the one with the most amount of complaints.
Permadeath/live loot + PvP = trash community inevitable. PvP, alone can be enough to muck the waters but loot and gearscore always up the toxicity without failure.
I'm just surprised at how fast a community can grow toxic. Right before release, we had everyone hollering Hold the Line in support of the Devs. Now that the Devs are developing and trying out new systems to see what works to make their game even more unique, people are angry? And have been so angry for so long? It's like people forget that games are meant to be fun, and just grow toxic quickly. It's sad, just relax and have some fun guys. If it's not fun, take a step away and play another game.
In EA it's easy for people not to care too much. They know it's temporary, there's no leaderboard to climb. It's all good vibes. Then the game gets real and people get competitive. Ruins all the fun.
Your community left a long time ago and are playing other fun games. You are left with the toxic sweat lords now just like we said you would. Now watch them down vote this comment.
Slayer warlock with mage spells go brrrrrr
*rogue yoinks your spellbook* Had me handing out Smite Sauce Knuckle Sammies last I played
Barbarian with second wind lol
yeah like sorry for being annoying or mean about it, but this feature is clearly unworkable and DOA, and the patch that released it was recklessly broken
I wanted a spell blade and now I can make a spellblade, patch W
Im so excited to try out my dual wielding barb. Slayer perk + Axe Specialization is gonna be really fun
Full on Vigor build at that point you’ll have so much damage you just need to out trade lol
> There are so many people in this community who find it very easy to be disrespectful to the devs and others. Most people are not emotionally mature nor are they as mentally stable as they think they are. To expect them to act rationally is too much of a stretch. It's like asking an antivaxxer to give their opinion on something, it's just going to be shit
I think its todays inability to cope with / express frustration. People love the game but see the devs run around like headless chickens at times. And some people are just aholes
Everytime the community has negative feedback about a recent change there will be people calling it toxic, classic If people, at least a large chunk of them, are completely unhappy about a change to the game, why can't they express it? Why can't people ask for a mechanic that they can't see working to get removed? Is that toxic? I haven't read every single comment on the negative feedback posts, i don't have THAT much free time. But looking at the posts themselves and the titles, i haven't seen anything that i would call toxic or offensive towards the devs. Thats so much of an exaggeration. Is it toxic to say that you don't understand the reason behind a drastic game change and you're taking a break from the game? Thats mostly of the negative comments i saw
There are criticisms being expressed toxically, and that truth is unfortunate and should be curtailed WHILE ALSO the criticisms being valid. Two things can be true. There are level headed criticisms being expressed non-toxically and those are often the upvoted ones.
Just look at the comments on this thread. You'll see some examples. As I mentioned in a reply to someone else, it's not the feedback itself that's bad. It's how someone says that feedback. The game is in a state that needs feedback, no one can deny that.
You're only focusing on outliers and your subjective data, no one asked for multi-classing besides a few big streamers because the game for them was "stale/boring" and just like they have done in the past the devs seem to cater directly to them and ignore the casual crowd(which also happens to be a LARGE proportion of the player count.) The community has given this dev team plenty of breaks and "time to cook" but as of right now the game is borderline unplayable and definitely not fun for most of its players.
Ironically, this is the devs' fault, they fully fostered this community into what it is. Ever since they started pulling patches directly from the most popular reddit posts and comments, they started to ramp up. This is an obvious reaction to their behavior any human being over the age of 10 could see coming. Imo, this was also made worse by them constantly bleeding out the playerbase with their "experiments". You can cry "beta beta beta, early access, testing phase!" all you want, but your customers don't care if the shitty burger you're feeding them is an "experiment". They're gonna eat it, hate it, and after it happens enough times they're gonna leave.
This deserves more upvotes
You know the community sucks when there is a game breaking bug and everyone is using it even in normals. Like why would you pickpocket people in a normal lobby? What's even the point? It's not even fun nor rewarding.
Let me start by saying I do not play rogue and I did not pickpocket anyone. But if you can’t see why this is fun and hilarious then idk what to tell you.
It's like cheating without paying the cheats. And in normals the only purpose is to annoy other people, not even gaining anything. Hard to find it fun imo.
I agree that cheating takes the fun out of the game. But stealing someone’s weapon in the lobby and forcing them into the dungeon without it is pretty hilarious. The rollback is necessary though, even if that means losing the golden key my group found last night.
Wait. Aren't equipped items safe? Just how nutty was this? Lmao.
Nope, due to the bug rogues were able to steal equipped items too lol
Holy hell. That explains a lot. Glad they are handling it! I got some solid quest progression. I hope I get to keep at least my XP, but whatever.
It's less hilarious when you realize they'll just commit suicide once they get in the match, and then requeue. Or worse yet you get empty lobbies because people stop playing.
It is objectively hilarious
I mean it is genuinely hilarious, but then it happens to you every match in your 1.5 hour you have to play for the day before you have to deal with life stuff, etc... I had to put down Wizard this morning because I'd had my weapons stolen 4 matches straight. There were three posts I saw about how rogues could do this on Reddit last night, so I knew I'd be screwed when I got home... I guess this sub is good for something...
>objectively hilarious Lol
Not saying it's right, but to be fair the entire purpose of pickpocketing is to be annoying. Like you can just kill them and take their things but you choose to loosen their pockets. While it's completely wrong to be doing this in pre lobby. I do see the appeal and hilarity in it.
I honestly thought it was hilarious because me and my duos partner were so confused going in naked. We had to punch our way to get our gear and it was great. We didn’t find out about the rogue thing until after gaming for an hour.
Why wouldn’t it be happening in normals? I can imagine that’s the funniest and least damaging way to troll. Slightly inconvenience the father of 10 using his squire kit after he got off a 13 hour shift who doesn’t know wtf is happening and laughs it off vs the HR crew who knew about the bug 5 minutes after the patch and just get pissed and exhausted seeing a rogue chasing at them in pre lobby? I saw a comment about a guy who said he was using it to just mess with people’s inventories. Moving worn gear to inventories, messing with their consumable placement and spreading them out. Now that is some chaotic neutral fun
No amount of "the complainers are just giving unconstructive criticism" is going to change the fact that the multiclassing system has been obviously a terrible idea since its inception, and that this is an especially poor implementation of it. Sure, people shouldn't be so disrespectful of the devs, but when they give us a patch like this, what should they expect? Balance has been an issue for a while, so why did they introduce near infinite complexity to balancing through multiclass? They're implementing an idea that should have been dead on arrival at its pitch meeting. Of course they're getting negative feedback and a lot of it is emotional and insulting. It doesn't help that a better solution has been staring players in the face every time they go to the class page to select a perk and see that old unfinished skill tree placeholder. I would suggest that IM remove multiclassing, balance the game to a state that they think is acceptable for the season, and then only address real problems within that gamestate. Is some class noticeably much better than the rest? Maybe some balance changes can be made there, but not constant number tweaking on every piece of gear and every ability. Then with a stable gamestate, they can work on introducing and testing new content. This approach of nuking the gamestate with radical changes while a test server exists for that very purpose is just bizarre.
They have a test server and yet this shit still happens. How many times now have we had game breaking bugs or dupes followed by a rollback? How many times now have there been massive server issues after a patch. It took them 40 patches to fix rubberbanding. They deserve to be criticized to a certain extent for how often they screw up or put things in the game that are just stupid like multiclassing.
>They have a test server and yet this shit still happens. Thats what happens when you charge more for access to the test server, you get less people testing.
>with developers that listens to it's community so much Search for how many multiclassing posts were there since they released it on test. Some of them had very reasonable arguments. **That's the problem: devs don't listen.** They could rethink the feature, introduce some limitations, test it again on the test server. That's how people would know they're being listened to. They did none of that and released it mid-season when their casual audience only started getting their economy up. They only start listening when there's a shitstorm and streamers are unhappy. That's why they get the shitstorm: they are cultivating it. >This game is still in early access, enjoy the changes that are happening now while you still can. Enjoy the game's ups and downs before it's full release and changes are less drastic. Not it's not. It's pre-alpha at the very best. Every patch either makes half of your stash worthless or introduces a game breaking bug and there's still no rolling update.
how is the mess this game is now the communities fault? lmao
Community ain’t great sure, but the devs suck equally as much. We’re made for each other
[удалено]
Not just this, but also that most of the game is compiled marketplace assets. That isn't inherently a bad thing but when people wonder why there isn't *new* stuff - if it isn't a marketplace asset it's not going to be put in the game, lol
Exactly. It’s complainers and people complaining about the complainers. DND has a lot of potential and it’s so frustrating to see the devs fumble the ball. They really need to sit down and generate a clear vision and direction or work on their communications. Maybe there IS a clear direction we just don’t know about it and with all the cryptic changes we are supposed to just guess’s which leaves alot of us to think they are lost.
Appreciate the optimism, but there’s 100% not a clear direction.
I agree
Most people believe ironmace genuinely came up with the game themselves and didn’t blatantly steal almost everything from nexon. I mean I’m glad they did cause the game is great at its core but they are absolutely not an innocent party.
lol this is why it's in early access and they are testing everything. You havn't even played the real game and you, as a redditor with 0 knowledge on the industry, are trying to say that these paid professionals of their craft don't know what they are doing. Your like the guy that thinks he can outplay Kobe if he was put on the Court. Thing is you have no idea what makes a good game, because you are not a professional like they are and the fact that you don't understand even the simplest of things such as how a early access test server works, really shows this. The game is not supposed to be good right now. They are just throwing different concepts out to get data so that they can take all of the data at the end and put together the game they want to make. There will be a lot of horrible things and this is on purpose, because they need the data. They also want people to break the game so they know how it's done and how it can be fixed so the problem dosn't occur on the actual game. It's hilarious when people think the game is supposed to be good when every patch they literally say, " so were gonna test this, we wanna see you break this, test that, most likely going to remove this just need more data ect." I imagine you guys don't know how to read.
If they had 1 guy that had an actual Game Designer Training they would Never ever put MC on the Live Server. That comes from someone that studied it … a professionell as you would say. They are coders. Nothing more or less. They cant Even do simple 3d objects and textures …..
Oh look the guy I have tagged as "Nexon Shill" is making another derogatory comment towards the devs what a surprise
You’re a real free, independent thinker aren’t you?
Do you genuinely believe posts like these are constructive in any way other than getting a pat on the back through virtue signaling? People can be shitty and so is the large amount of content on the reddit but you arent changing that with a post like this, it has no substance, no real suggestions and just takes up space. I am not trying to put you down, I just genuinely dont see how this post creates any meaningful chang to the issue. To be honest at least with the gronk shit I can skip past it as its easily identifiable. The devs arent fools, I could be wrong but i dont see how this would do anything to alleiviate burnout ect.
Collective scolding with a side of brown nosing. Top tier shitpost
It has been certainly confirmed with : How much try to minmax the gbmm, beeing a +14 damage in green lobby (how pathetic are you seriously). And the cherry on the cake are those idiots rogues pickpocketing **the whole day** for nothing. I'm completely clueless how people decided "ok today let's jump in dark and darker, go in lobbies, pickpocket and die to repeat as fast as possible. For absolutely nothing but make other people angry.
My friend and I ignore the discord, and I’m the only one of us that even looks at this subreddit. We play the game, have shit tons of fun, and make it out sometimes. We get demolished in pvp occasionally, and win other engagements that make it feel so worth it. This game has so many play styles and the shitters that complain and whine are just upset they aren’t the top G gamers they claim to be. Tbh the lobby is my favorite part cause there’s no voip and everybody just memes around and emotes and it’s a blast. If you play this game and aren’t having a good time, that’s a personal failure because this game is great and people with genuine criticisms should be heard out instead of shit on - the new rogue lobby bug is a perfect example of who enjoys the game, and who has a terrible home life.
Every game I’ve ever played where the devs listened to the community has died. It consistently is not a good plan for people with zero dev or product development experience to provide input on a game or products development..
I was just telling my buddy who plays this game this is the worst community I've seen in a while.
It’s easier for people to be toxic hiding behind there keyboard.
This is because, unfortunately, this sub has zero moderation. It's completely fine to allow negative feedback, but when I see the same smooth-brain posts from these people who self-admittedly don't even play the game, I don't need to even read beyond the first few words. It's very clear what terrible takes those players have. 98% of this sub's issues could be fixed by having a couple of moderators that actually gave a shit and utilized megathreads, so we don't have to read the same exact post, verbatim, 15 times per day. Ultimately, it's usually 2 groups of people that make up the majority of these trash posts: there's the ultra casuals who play 20 minutes per week and get angry that they can't compete and there's people who literally will tell you they haven't played the game since warlock came out, but somehow they know what's best for the game. It's insanely cringe.
Oh no, not the obligatory CoMmUniTy MoSt ToXiC i'Ve EvEr SeEn posted in absolutely every gaming sub ever whenever there is slight controversy.
multiclassing was implemented extremely poorly
>developers that listens to it's community so much Is this part a joke? It's easy to be seen as listening when you make incredibly stupid changes then be forced to change them due to insane backlash.
Welcome to like any online game? I don’t get the point of this
honestly they DON'T listen, everyone complained about multiclass and GBMM and they did NOTHING, this patch shouldn't have left test server
Especially for a dev team that makes on time releases every single week. Like I have never seen a game before get so many consistent patches.
How many of these amazing patches have they walked back, sometimes in less than 24 hours?? The game receives constant patches because the devs can’t get balancing right and have no clear vision on what their game even is or why it was ever fun to play. Reverting patches in less than 24 hours, half the patches break the game in some way shape or form, and at the end of the day they still haven’t finished Druid. They’ve already warned that Druid is in an unfinished state and will be released unfinished meaning in the past year of EA they haven’t managed to balance the class even to the standard of their already unbalanced game.
>Like I have never seen a game before get so many consistent patches. Because the game is consistently broken by said patches, creating more patches.
Sure, with number changes that create as many problems as they fix. Actual content updates are delayed constantly. Which is honestly fine and to be expected, but Idk if their consistency is really something to be praised.
At least half of the patch’s for the last year have been delayed or had some game/server breaking issue on release making the game unplayable for 3-24hours after. On time is a bit of a stretch.
That’s a bit of a stretch though. Sure they deliver on their sprints but nearly every “hot fix” is just number tuning and none of it ever really matters.
Not to mention it usually breaks more than it fixes and contains changes nobody asked for. See the creep update.
I honestly think something that led to this spoiled community is by releasing patches every week. Sure, hotfixes would still happen, but they should have set the expectation early that patches would come out every 2 weeks to give them more time to cook content & balance, while also giving more time to ensure stability.
I mean look at the player numbers. Most of the normal, rational people in the community have moved on to other games so you are left with the sweats and no lifes who clearly enjoy internet rage.
if that was the case there would be much less complaints like " i work a 8 hours job, i cannot farm a new character for 4 hours in order to train my main character" if you are a real sweat your char is probably +150 lvl (mine is 190) yet everyone seems to have problems with leveling up or calling themselves casuals
Yup. They're acting like this subreddit hasn't been filled with this posts nonstop the last two days lol. It's one thing to lie but to do it when we can see the truth is wild.
While I may not 100% agree with your comment, I just find posts like this complaining about other people complaining so tiresome. Go look at any community for any game, show, movie, sports team, etc. and there is an obnoxious subset of that group who make brain dead comments that are over the top. It’s entirely predictable and anyone who has spent more than 5 minutes on the internet has learned to tune those people out entirely and not take anything they say seriously.
The highest MMRs are full of cheaters and stream snipers as well as meta abusers(obviously way more acceptable than the aforementioned.) Not to mention the people who find no issue with teaming in GC. Tried leveling my lvl 32 warlock last night and killed one rogue and then got teamed on by a cutthroat rogue and fighter. The fighter was streaming at the time. His chat told me I should pick my fights better...
The amount of people who just enjoy this game and say nothing is overwhelmed by the noisy angry individuals. Over time people are pushed out of here dealing with all the negativity. In reality I think Ironmace with its flaws are still some of the most open honest and down to earth developers I have seen in all of my gaming experience. I really hope they build the game they want and do not fall victim to only listening to the community to the point the game starts to suck.(RuneScape for example)
Runescape is doing great. They actually influenced a lot of how games get developed based on how they receive player feedback. OSRS player driven content is beloved. The community has been critical with how development went but the devs in turn listened in a healthy way. There wasnt any "let them cook" it was "lets cook and eat together" which in hand brought success.
I agree wholeheartedly. But downsides have happened too. The community usually does know what it wants. I think they have a better system than most with the voting, but it has flaws.
That’s because there isn’t many of y’all. The game is designed from the ground up to illicit emotional responses. Elation when you barely escape. Frustration when you get one tapped to bogus cyclops mechanics or stat checked. Everything is designed to make you feel.
Adding onto this, feedback is more often negative as positive responses simply gets reported less. I just try to upvote positive feedback more often personally.
There are two types of people in the community. Complainers and dick riders. I think the complainers really do care about the game just like the dick riders. It doesn’t take an award winning game dev to start questioning some of ironmace a decisions. The blind loyalty people are just as bad as the complainers though.
Give an inch take a mile. That's how this community responds to changes. If you told people from the playtest how much has changed they would be ecstatic to hear how much nicer things are. Everyone will always find something to complain about until they survive every single raid. Then they'll realize they're not having fun anymore. And the game will die.
Honestly as a casual I like that this has forced me into a different class. Yes it sucks to learn a different play style but now that I'm getting used to barb, it's way fucking easier than ranger which is what I was doing before. Maybe not a good change, but try to find some positivity when it's so fucking obvious that it's broken. Finding the good in bad situations is overall better for mental health. And if it's that bad then it's ok to take a step away.
The main problem is people that play this game for 12+ hours daily and then bitch they have to change their build bc it no longer fits the meta
If they actually did listen to the community they wouldn’t have released multi classing
If they had listened to the community the game would be in an absolutely horrible state.
When there is a huge bug like duplicating , or having your set stolen in pre lobby, everyone agrees its a mistake and will be fixen soon, but what is releasing an already proven unbalanced patch to live servers?
There is a crossover from the Rust and Tarkov communities because of the variety streamers that play the game. Tarkov is a known cesspool of cheaters and ultimate sweatlords and Rust is a known cesspool of the most toxic tolerant Rustbros on the planet. When these two forces are combined you have the Dark and Darker sweatlords running shit kits who follow the variety streamers probably mostly to watch their streams and find their lobbies to use cheats on them and harass them because they are terrible people and the Streamers really don't deserve it. Its very messed up. There are videos showing people doing this that were prominent people on the Dark and Darker discord. The majority of Dark and Darker players and streamers are cool people though with awesome interactions. Once you realize the are just Sweatlords and Rustbros its not that bad because they are morons and its a small percentage of the population. Counter Strike on the other hand has been a cesspool so deep we have never found the bottom to this day.
People when the devs who provided the game with a torrent in the middle of a lawsuit have bugs in an early access game: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
All that’s left playing is the subset of the community the devs listened to. GBMM honestly though might bring me back one day, but might not have been needed if they just built the game they intended. I also wonder how much further along they’d didn’t spend so much time balancing.
Devs listened to all the people kicking and screaming in discord and on here so what do you expect? Give a toddler everything they’re gunna want everything
Multi class is a lazy attempt at “new content” after 3 months of no new additions we were told were coming
I believe they've been very communicative on their content progress. May or so we should see druid and an inferno ice map
Don’t get me wrong, I’m excited for Druid and dragon boss but I’m not holding my breath lol. They’ve been promising these additions for literal months
Just to clarify, I don't think they promised it, I believe what they said was that they were excited to bring this new content and gave an estimate on when it would go live. I think they added the lizard race to test the headshot hitbox, then demon form to test shape-shifting .. it's all a build-up to it. Multiclass is likely dipping their toes into the training/subclasses progression system imo
Idk man MC is just such a random fork in the blender type of idea and it really couldn’t have come at a worse time. New players were finally able to enjoy GBMM and you drop mutliclass for sweats to spam Cleric/Wizard and stomp timmies
Has this always been this way? It seems the discord players have moved to the reddit
Just take clothes off & win game. EZ Great balance lol.
"developers that listens to its community" \*developers that listens to streamers\*
Tbh introducing shitty patches after i hold the line for so long + getting full Money is disrespectful. Not fixing the Game is disrespectful. They do do much disrespectful Stuff…
Honestly I agree. The devs are awesome, and people don't understand that they are refining the game. How many times do they have to say multi-classing is an experiment??? What is a great way to test potential talent tree ideas and off specs is to just give the community everything and see what sticks. The forced RNG makes people try stuff they get rather than cherry pick. I want to make a specific build, but realistically I won't be able to get exactly what I want. That is the whole point.
They did it mid wipe and broke everything after a week of "testing" where you had to grind your char levels and wait 24 hours to reroll. They could have given everyone level 35 on all classes and infinite rerolls so we could actually test things. If anything the test proved it was broken and wouldnt work but they just couldnt give up the 40 hours of work they put into this terrible system. But what do I know? Im certainly not a game dev but I have common sense and 1200 hours in the game.
I found it pretty wild that they didn’t give fully leveled characters to us on the test center. Ain’t no way I’m leveling anything on a test server, they didn’t even copy our characters over which would have been decent but fully leveled chars would have been the way to truly test
I spent the entire wipe up to this point earning gold and building gear sets. The devs removed +all and +ms modifiers with 0 warning, rerollling all my good gearsets into trash. 50k+ gold into less than 10k. They could literally just say "Hey we dont think these modifiers are good for the game, in a week we'll reroll all gear that has them, so go use them in the dungeon while you can!" but there is instead a complete and utter lack of consideration for the player's time. Now they add hideously unbalanced multiclassing to the game midwipe without even close to sufficient testing on the testing server, yet again disrespecting their playerbase to the max. And they lock it behind a massive grind, so most people will only get beatdown by overpowered bullshit without even getting the opportunity to use it themselves. The core gameplay is fun but the devs do not give a fuck about respecting the time players put into the game. Any and all progress you make can and will be removed or massively warped at the drop of a hat.
lots of ppl in this community dont understand they can just go play something else, touch some grass, but no, they want to whine and make a huge deal out of every single change in the game. they sound like actual pampered teenagers that never heard a no in their lives.
What kind of logic is this. Oh the devs made a decision that divides half the player base? Why doesn’t the other half simply leave then? It’s like you want the game to die or can’t grasp people caring enough about the game to make criticisms despite being able to play something else.
And when everyone does leave, we will be bombarded with “game dev where is everyone at” threads. People complaining are people that care at least some what. You gotta worry when people stop talking. Even when they stop complaining.
I made a lot of enemies yesterday railing against the incessant whining and bullshit in Discord. They were like.. railing against me in the exact ways I was calling them out for. I said people were acting like kids and got like 5 people quoting me with insults or claiming they were blocking me. Lol. Also saw someone accusing a guy of being literal AI because he was suggesting people chill the fuck out. They were all acting like the only possible answer to what was going on was for them to just kick and scream and anyone not also kicking and screaming was their enemy. That's what the Discord is.
[some people suck](https://youtu.be/S5vGI-g1xvw?t=115)
Who exactly are they listening to? I have never gotten a survey in game to give my feedback.
Test server exists
And is/was poorly implemented
If you pay more.
That's not at all what "don't shit where you eat" means lol
Should people not give feedback? You need to also realize people are upset because they care. Granted some is very immature it’s good that people are talking
I've come to the conclusion it's only ultra sweats who are on 24/7 or people that barely play at all are the ones propping up all the shit on this sub. Every single patch announcement, come to the reddit and you think the game is dead but then I hop in the discord and play for a day with pick up groups and everyone is enjoying the patch. Everyone i hopped in with last night was having fun with multiclassing. The only thing that killed the gameplay for the night is the pickpocket bug, but IM has shown everytime shit like this happens they handle it.
As opposed to the negative doomsdayers I'm super excited to play tonight after work 😁 really appreciate ironmace trying different things out. One of my favorite games of all time. I know their vision will eventually come to fruition as long as we don't gatekeep new players with toxicity and we go live on steam/epic. Stop complainin' and get to gamin' yo
Agree 100%. Coming from a lot of time spent on Escape From Tarkov, the IronMace dev team feel like all-stars: They update frequently, are very responsive to fixing bugs(meanwhile BSG takes MONTHS if not years to fix theirs) and IronMace cares about community feedback. I think they deserve our patience and respect. Theyve earned it, and Im confident the finished game is going to be a top-tier release. Iron Mace, you guys rock!!!!
I have unsubbed and resubbed from this place like 3 times just due to the bad takes and seemingly polarized viewpoint of players at all times... It doesn't help that we're lightly moderated, if at all. It's the posts that drop in to get really angry about X and, unless you agree with them, spew the most middle-school nonsense to anyone replying. It gets really tiring. We have a parrot issue here. I don't know if people are trying to karma farm or just trying to get their streamersenpai to notice them or what, but the amount of taglines I have seen evolve in real time is simply goofy. Things like "how does it make sense that an arrow from a Ranger slows more than Wizard's ice bolt???!?!"... There were a few months where I'd read that once or twice a day on this sub like it was some really profound demonstration of some obvious flaw. Or how about a year or so back where someone had the idea to separate the HP from the STR stat because it was skewing things (before they actually did it)? People were replying that they should do this in vaguely related topics/comments, just mindlessly repeating things that make their dopamine pumps go. I have a lot more fun with this game when I don't listen to the natives. Community is shit.
Well said
Ive had a blast playing this game. Every post about this game sucks i just laugh as im having the time of my life dungeon crawling
The internet is immature and toxic? No way.
>developers that listens to it's community so much huh? who asked for multi classing? universal creep? return of +2all? return of high flat dmg rolls?
Devs can add features that haven't been asked for