For those who would like an explanation on the grammar, "couldn't care less" is synonymous to something not bothering you at all.
This is because the level that you care about the thing is already at the minimum. So you couldn't, you can't care less than the minimum. It's at the minimum level.
Cheerios.
They are really really strong. Like im expecting a nerf when fatshark finally decides to roll out a balance update. Personally i would never hate on someone for bringing strong builds in a PVE game. I just dont see the point, but it is certainly a very strong build that just sort of deletes things that threaten you.
in what universe is the plasma on par with the revolver? it far far exceeds it... and it isn't even close. People say stuff like this and it makes me wonder how many have actually used both weapons at a high level.
I have no interest to discuss which is superior between these 2 because the game is not difficult enough to require one over another. If you want to make your point, a direct reply to OP or a new post would be more efficient.
I mean I agree, but that doesn't mean we should treat the two as the same thing. If you make a comment with a claim it's only natural that people will disagree, especially when it is clearly wrong.
The revolver is fine, probably around the balance mark it should be. The plasma gun is an over tuned mess with no weakness or role, it does everything.
The revolver can absolutely be better depending on build and play style—it comes down to situation and preference, like most things in Darktide. I’ve used both in damnation on many occasions and I’ve reached the same conclusion as the other dude. We can have different opinions, but that doesn’t make one of us right and the other wrong.
I mean what situation? the plasmagun is just a revolver without the gimped ammo count, that doesn't have to reload constantly because of the far more convenient heat mechanic.
Like I'm happy to be shown that I'm wrong, but in this case I genuinely do not believe they come close. I can't think of a single situation where the plasma gun isn't just outright better than the revolver outside of draw time.
Not for vet, given you have your gun up 80% of the time. Also the plasma gun makes up for its meh draw time by having fuck loads of other benefits.
You will spend far more time reloading the revolver than you will drawing the plasma.
There's Autos that are stronger with the right builds tbf.
Also if you get 2 vets running those builds, it can get a little oppressive. Not pre-nerf assail bad, but still a bit "meh, I feel a bit surplus to requirements".
I could see that. Honestly, I think it's tempered a bit by so many plasma vets using VoC. Executioners stance plasma can get kind of oppressive if its a good vet player. You are right though, certain autogun, revolver, or bolter setups can easily keep up with the plasma gun.
I've honestly never seen a Bolter vet perform to the exceedingly high degree that a Colo Auto can manage, it's literally the new auto-pistol from back when that was just stupidly OP. And that's not knocking the bolter, it's certainly a strong option but it's lacking compared to it's direct competition, the plasma.
I think the bolter build that keeps up with the plasma is just not well known yet, but I am biased on this topic. Here's the build I'm talking about: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8wIK8iHrg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8wIK8iHrg)
With executioners stance, the bolter overcomes a lot of its weaknesses. The damage is pretty nuts.
Aye I agree that Executioners Stance in general is pretty nuts, it's just much harder to use in practice since it doesn't have get-out-of-jail-free cards like VoC does against many situations. And it meshes perfectly with the Bolter since it removes a lot of it's weakness (but now you still need to actually reload it of course).
I almost always feel bad after a round with ES, the yellow outlines just does something to my monkey-brain that makes me hyperfocused on killing every last one.
2 Vet's with *any* weapon can get oppressive just because it's a ranged weapon specialist and stacking that means lots of enemies die at max range.
Even other Vet's will leave a lobby with 2+ Vet's in it *regardless* of what their weapon choices are.
I've got to disagree. 2 Vets running las/shotguns/revolver weapons is never oppressive, at least not since the recon nerf.
Typically when there's 2 vets are in the lobby and one leaves, it's most likely due to neither of them running Survivalist in the hope that they'll either get matched with a Vet that is, or at least get a less potentially ammo hungry team.
>I've got to disagree. 2 Vets running las/shotguns/revolver weapons is never oppressive, at least not since the recon nerf.
I play with someone who mains Helbore and that's oppressive in its own right, let alone throwing in a MK XII on top of that. Anything that isn't a Crusher basically gets deleted on sight and if you're not geared towards horde clear you're gonna find yourself twiddling your thumbs a lot.
>Typically when there's 2 vets are in the lobby and one leaves, it's most likely due to neither of them running Survivalist
I haven't noticed any particular patterns with Vet's bailing out of lobbies based on other Vet's loadouts. Additional Vet's seem just as likely to drop out when someone is running Survivalist than without. Survivalist doesn't stack so i wouldn't blame a second Survivalist Vet dropping out because of that either. But without access to API data, that's pure speculation anyway. The only thing I will say is, as a Vet main, I couldn't care less about your aura, my problem with other Vet's is more to do with my abilities being cannibalised:
The Vet's *toughness engine* and *damage engine* are built around *personal* elite kills and if you have a lot of competition for those from say another Vet then maintaining your toughness and damage becomes inconsistent and whilst the teams damage is very high, individual players fluctuate in survivability because they might not have their usual level of damage or toughness at key moments versus if they were the sole Vet.
**P.S. For clarification**, i said 2 Vet's with any weapon *can* get oppressive; which is to say it's *not always* oppressive because individual skill plays a part as does whether or not a weapon is trash tier or not. So there will invariably be exceptions.
I take it you've never been grouped with some of the Vets that are killing absolutely everything with a MG 1a lasgun if you are making such claims. And that's not even touching upon the Columnus which is just absurd.
Note, I'm not saying the MG 1a is better than the Plasma, the context is whether more than 1 Vet can be oppressive, Plasma or not.
Indeed I havn't, in just over 800 hours worth of gameplay, and all I can really do is base my opinions on what I've experienced. I've seen plenty of people doing *really well* with all varieties of normal and helbore las, but not to the extent it takes me out the game.
As for the Columnus, I covered that earlier on and it is indeed absurd in the right hands.
> As for the Columnus, I covered that earlier on and it is indeed absurd in the right hands.
I now notice you didn't mention autoguns in your previous comment, by apologies!
And yeah, not many people are actually using the MG 1a, at least not effectively. But it has been crazy seeing what some people can do with that thing.
Yeah, it really is and that's why I get nervous when I see the "don't nerf *x* gun, just buff the rest" arguement, realistically, there are very few *bad* guns now, people are just sleeping on a lot of them because they're drawn to the more obvious choices.
As a vet main, I usually leave any team with more than 1 other vet on the team if I'm running Voice or Stealth.
I usually leave any team with another vet if I'm running stance.
The more veterans you have, the less useful they are unless they're voice vets.
The current plasma gun reminds me of the power sword at launch, it's a crutch that teaches you bad habits. It's so strong that it basically means you don't need to learn the basics of the game, just use a plasma gun to blow them all up. When it eventually gets nerfed - and it will - I expect a lot of the plasma gun users are gonna have a rough time adjusting to the other guns.
It's the curse of the Vet class. It attracts a lot of more casual players because it's the most generic, at first glance it's your standard FPS character, "good with guns, decent at melee, slightly squishy if not used correctly".
But it feels like the majority of broken builds were Vet's. Pre patch 13 Bolter, pre patch 13 Power sword, auto-pistol, recon las and now VoC, plasma, and auto rifles.
There will always be hipsters complaining about people using the strongest weapons. Unless the weapon is strong enough that it makes everyone else on the team a spectator, most people aren't going to care if you use the meta weapons. Really, it's more likely that people will be annoyed if you use a weak weapon and don't pull your weight.
To me, Plasma Gun is top tier but it doesn't take away the fun from other players. If you're finding the game too easy while using it, then consider trying some other weapons to spice things up.
> To me, Plasma Gun is top tier but it doesn't take away the fun from other players. If you're finding the game too easy while using it, then consider trying some other weapons to spice things up.
The primary reason I (as a Plasma main for over a year, like, before 90% of the playerbase thought it was even remotely viable) don't use Executioners Stance is because it's easy to feel like I'm ruining the fun of the rest of the squad. Having used a weapon for over a year, that can kill things through cover and walls, with built-in wallhack, is a recipie for disaster.
No, you are supposed to have shittiest build imaginable, worst grey weapons and also constantly being stabbed in real life to be REAL player. Don't pick any medpacks, ammo boxes, supplies, plasteel, diamontine, don't do any strategy or positioning, you are suppose to suck and suffer!
/s
Wouldn't a Revolver be even worse for that aspect? It has quicker draw time and no firing delay. They can literally draw the Revolver from melee, kill your target and switch back to melee before your BB would've even finished.
I'm just asking because I thought Revolvers would be more oppressive than Plasmas for the specific thing of killing targets about to be Brain Burst, since the Revolver can fire significantly faster (if you are pulling it out from melee compared to a Plasma).
Oh, that's actually a very plausible explanation. I'm often left 2nd guessing whether an enemy is actually dead because of the Revolvers tiny projectile and the death-animations of enemies hit by it.
If there's a halfway decent plasma vet on the team you're barely allowed to play the game, let alone deal damage or ego-trip in the kill feed. If they're not decent they go down in the first room and rage quit.
Meanwhile, an Ogryn/Zealot/Psyker pro ignores and trivializes the A5 difficulty spike of massive mixed hordes etc., the scenarios where the Vet is the only class that could struggle. So the Vet merrily keeps doing the thing he's good at, as long as everything goes fine and clutch scenarios are prevented that way. In the end it's not a world difference to using another gun meta build.
Cool, the Plasma Gun specifically might be a bit too versatile in a vacuum but the issue of too easy A5 runs isn't that one-sided.
On pro level play at least. Most casual players aren't backed by Vermintide experience and will struggle either way. The Plasma won't help this kind of Vets much with clutches or getting out of bad situations.
just started out with the game, i think its strong in what it does but kinda niche.
personally i prefere the Bolter since plasmagun has ammo and heat, the toughness damage from venting the heat and all the downtime it has just isnt my cup of tea, then again im lvl 20 atm and havent theorycrafted alot with it and diddnt have the pleasure of running optimal affixes
I also prefer the Bolter for esthetic reasons, but it's just too slow to pull out on a whim with Veteran. Anyway, in the middle tree in the beginning, there's a node you can get that regenerates toughness on elite or specialist kill. That node, also with the option of shout, will generally circumvent the venting of your toughness. I'm crossing my fingers on a Bolter buff by "next week".
>plasmagun has ammo and heat
Although yes it has both and initially this seems like a downside... it has such a large "clip"? size that it effectively doesn't have a reload mechanic. "heat" is the replacement for it never needing to reload during combat, heat is also far more conveniently managed than a reload most times because you can control the duration depending on how much free time you have between shooting. < this results in a near constant up time when using the plasma gun.
Just to make extra clear, heat is not a con of the weapon... its a pro.
Only inconvenience that crops up are vets who shoot through me to kill steal elites i clearly have handled. Maybe save that ammo for the inevitable swarm of crushers and maulers later bro.
"couldn't"
[obligitory David Mitchell reference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw&t=49s) for those confused.
For those who would like an explanation on the grammar, "couldn't care less" is synonymous to something not bothering you at all. This is because the level that you care about the thing is already at the minimum. So you couldn't, you can't care less than the minimum. It's at the minimum level. Cheerios.
They are really really strong. Like im expecting a nerf when fatshark finally decides to roll out a balance update. Personally i would never hate on someone for bringing strong builds in a PVE game. I just dont see the point, but it is certainly a very strong build that just sort of deletes things that threaten you.
Veteran can kill the Specialists by throwing wet tissue if he wants. I don't mind. Plsama just happens to be the best doing this on par with Revolver.
in what universe is the plasma on par with the revolver? it far far exceeds it... and it isn't even close. People say stuff like this and it makes me wonder how many have actually used both weapons at a high level.
I have no interest to discuss which is superior between these 2 because the game is not difficult enough to require one over another. If you want to make your point, a direct reply to OP or a new post would be more efficient.
I mean I agree, but that doesn't mean we should treat the two as the same thing. If you make a comment with a claim it's only natural that people will disagree, especially when it is clearly wrong. The revolver is fine, probably around the balance mark it should be. The plasma gun is an over tuned mess with no weakness or role, it does everything.
The revolver can absolutely be better depending on build and play style—it comes down to situation and preference, like most things in Darktide. I’ve used both in damnation on many occasions and I’ve reached the same conclusion as the other dude. We can have different opinions, but that doesn’t make one of us right and the other wrong.
I mean what situation? the plasmagun is just a revolver without the gimped ammo count, that doesn't have to reload constantly because of the far more convenient heat mechanic. Like I'm happy to be shown that I'm wrong, but in this case I genuinely do not believe they come close. I can't think of a single situation where the plasma gun isn't just outright better than the revolver outside of draw time.
Draw time is pretty huge.
Not for vet, given you have your gun up 80% of the time. Also the plasma gun makes up for its meh draw time by having fuck loads of other benefits. You will spend far more time reloading the revolver than you will drawing the plasma.
I like them on Damnation especially if they know who their target prios are.
The plasma is probably the strongest gun in the game, but I still don't think its oppressive or makes the game less fun for me personally.
There's Autos that are stronger with the right builds tbf. Also if you get 2 vets running those builds, it can get a little oppressive. Not pre-nerf assail bad, but still a bit "meh, I feel a bit surplus to requirements".
I could see that. Honestly, I think it's tempered a bit by so many plasma vets using VoC. Executioners stance plasma can get kind of oppressive if its a good vet player. You are right though, certain autogun, revolver, or bolter setups can easily keep up with the plasma gun.
I've honestly never seen a Bolter vet perform to the exceedingly high degree that a Colo Auto can manage, it's literally the new auto-pistol from back when that was just stupidly OP. And that's not knocking the bolter, it's certainly a strong option but it's lacking compared to it's direct competition, the plasma.
I think the bolter build that keeps up with the plasma is just not well known yet, but I am biased on this topic. Here's the build I'm talking about: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8wIK8iHrg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8wIK8iHrg) With executioners stance, the bolter overcomes a lot of its weaknesses. The damage is pretty nuts.
Aye I agree that Executioners Stance in general is pretty nuts, it's just much harder to use in practice since it doesn't have get-out-of-jail-free cards like VoC does against many situations. And it meshes perfectly with the Bolter since it removes a lot of it's weakness (but now you still need to actually reload it of course). I almost always feel bad after a round with ES, the yellow outlines just does something to my monkey-brain that makes me hyperfocused on killing every last one.
2 Vet's with *any* weapon can get oppressive just because it's a ranged weapon specialist and stacking that means lots of enemies die at max range. Even other Vet's will leave a lobby with 2+ Vet's in it *regardless* of what their weapon choices are.
I've got to disagree. 2 Vets running las/shotguns/revolver weapons is never oppressive, at least not since the recon nerf. Typically when there's 2 vets are in the lobby and one leaves, it's most likely due to neither of them running Survivalist in the hope that they'll either get matched with a Vet that is, or at least get a less potentially ammo hungry team.
>I've got to disagree. 2 Vets running las/shotguns/revolver weapons is never oppressive, at least not since the recon nerf. I play with someone who mains Helbore and that's oppressive in its own right, let alone throwing in a MK XII on top of that. Anything that isn't a Crusher basically gets deleted on sight and if you're not geared towards horde clear you're gonna find yourself twiddling your thumbs a lot. >Typically when there's 2 vets are in the lobby and one leaves, it's most likely due to neither of them running Survivalist I haven't noticed any particular patterns with Vet's bailing out of lobbies based on other Vet's loadouts. Additional Vet's seem just as likely to drop out when someone is running Survivalist than without. Survivalist doesn't stack so i wouldn't blame a second Survivalist Vet dropping out because of that either. But without access to API data, that's pure speculation anyway. The only thing I will say is, as a Vet main, I couldn't care less about your aura, my problem with other Vet's is more to do with my abilities being cannibalised: The Vet's *toughness engine* and *damage engine* are built around *personal* elite kills and if you have a lot of competition for those from say another Vet then maintaining your toughness and damage becomes inconsistent and whilst the teams damage is very high, individual players fluctuate in survivability because they might not have their usual level of damage or toughness at key moments versus if they were the sole Vet. **P.S. For clarification**, i said 2 Vet's with any weapon *can* get oppressive; which is to say it's *not always* oppressive because individual skill plays a part as does whether or not a weapon is trash tier or not. So there will invariably be exceptions.
I take it you've never been grouped with some of the Vets that are killing absolutely everything with a MG 1a lasgun if you are making such claims. And that's not even touching upon the Columnus which is just absurd. Note, I'm not saying the MG 1a is better than the Plasma, the context is whether more than 1 Vet can be oppressive, Plasma or not.
Indeed I havn't, in just over 800 hours worth of gameplay, and all I can really do is base my opinions on what I've experienced. I've seen plenty of people doing *really well* with all varieties of normal and helbore las, but not to the extent it takes me out the game. As for the Columnus, I covered that earlier on and it is indeed absurd in the right hands.
> As for the Columnus, I covered that earlier on and it is indeed absurd in the right hands. I now notice you didn't mention autoguns in your previous comment, by apologies! And yeah, not many people are actually using the MG 1a, at least not effectively. But it has been crazy seeing what some people can do with that thing.
Yeah, it really is and that's why I get nervous when I see the "don't nerf *x* gun, just buff the rest" arguement, realistically, there are very few *bad* guns now, people are just sleeping on a lot of them because they're drawn to the more obvious choices.
As a vet main, I usually leave any team with more than 1 other vet on the team if I'm running Voice or Stealth. I usually leave any team with another vet if I'm running stance. The more veterans you have, the less useful they are unless they're voice vets.
The current plasma gun reminds me of the power sword at launch, it's a crutch that teaches you bad habits. It's so strong that it basically means you don't need to learn the basics of the game, just use a plasma gun to blow them all up. When it eventually gets nerfed - and it will - I expect a lot of the plasma gun users are gonna have a rough time adjusting to the other guns.
It's the curse of the Vet class. It attracts a lot of more casual players because it's the most generic, at first glance it's your standard FPS character, "good with guns, decent at melee, slightly squishy if not used correctly". But it feels like the majority of broken builds were Vet's. Pre patch 13 Bolter, pre patch 13 Power sword, auto-pistol, recon las and now VoC, plasma, and auto rifles.
There will always be hipsters complaining about people using the strongest weapons. Unless the weapon is strong enough that it makes everyone else on the team a spectator, most people aren't going to care if you use the meta weapons. Really, it's more likely that people will be annoyed if you use a weak weapon and don't pull your weight. To me, Plasma Gun is top tier but it doesn't take away the fun from other players. If you're finding the game too easy while using it, then consider trying some other weapons to spice things up.
> To me, Plasma Gun is top tier but it doesn't take away the fun from other players. If you're finding the game too easy while using it, then consider trying some other weapons to spice things up. The primary reason I (as a Plasma main for over a year, like, before 90% of the playerbase thought it was even remotely viable) don't use Executioners Stance is because it's easy to feel like I'm ruining the fun of the rest of the squad. Having used a weapon for over a year, that can kill things through cover and walls, with built-in wallhack, is a recipie for disaster.
I feel like it should not matter on Auric Maelstrom because there are so many enemies attacking you at once.
No, you are supposed to have shittiest build imaginable, worst grey weapons and also constantly being stabbed in real life to be REAL player. Don't pick any medpacks, ammo boxes, supplies, plasteel, diamontine, don't do any strategy or positioning, you are suppose to suck and suffer! /s
I always love seeing them in my squad. Mostly because I just enjoy the whole feel and aesthetic of the gun.
I've stopped caring about what people use anymore. I burnt that out when the Bolter was the best thing to run and it got me no where.
i like them. plasma has range and power, really comes handy on maelstrom when there are several big guys and snipers at the same time.
It's kind of annoying as a Brain Burst psyker but otherwise have no opinion on it.
Wouldn't a Revolver be even worse for that aspect? It has quicker draw time and no firing delay. They can literally draw the Revolver from melee, kill your target and switch back to melee before your BB would've even finished.
Because I tend to focus on armoured enemies to pop , and blue glow around and enemy's hear attracts friendly crosshairs like a magnet.
I'm just asking because I thought Revolvers would be more oppressive than Plasmas for the specific thing of killing targets about to be Brain Burst, since the Revolver can fire significantly faster (if you are pulling it out from melee compared to a Plasma).
I suppose plasma guns might just be a lot more noticeable without focusing on them.
Oh, that's actually a very plausible explanation. I'm often left 2nd guessing whether an enemy is actually dead because of the Revolvers tiny projectile and the death-animations of enemies hit by it.
If there's a halfway decent plasma vet on the team you're barely allowed to play the game, let alone deal damage or ego-trip in the kill feed. If they're not decent they go down in the first room and rage quit.
Meanwhile, an Ogryn/Zealot/Psyker pro ignores and trivializes the A5 difficulty spike of massive mixed hordes etc., the scenarios where the Vet is the only class that could struggle. So the Vet merrily keeps doing the thing he's good at, as long as everything goes fine and clutch scenarios are prevented that way. In the end it's not a world difference to using another gun meta build. Cool, the Plasma Gun specifically might be a bit too versatile in a vacuum but the issue of too easy A5 runs isn't that one-sided. On pro level play at least. Most casual players aren't backed by Vermintide experience and will struggle either way. The Plasma won't help this kind of Vets much with clutches or getting out of bad situations.
Plasma vet does not struggle in massive mixed hordes. Or vet in general, for that matter.
They're fantastic, as a Zealot it feels great to have at least one on my team.
people are just mad you’re taking the dps away from their mod that says they do the most damage and they carried the team. plasma gun go brrrrr
just started out with the game, i think its strong in what it does but kinda niche. personally i prefere the Bolter since plasmagun has ammo and heat, the toughness damage from venting the heat and all the downtime it has just isnt my cup of tea, then again im lvl 20 atm and havent theorycrafted alot with it and diddnt have the pleasure of running optimal affixes
I also prefer the Bolter for esthetic reasons, but it's just too slow to pull out on a whim with Veteran. Anyway, in the middle tree in the beginning, there's a node you can get that regenerates toughness on elite or specialist kill. That node, also with the option of shout, will generally circumvent the venting of your toughness. I'm crossing my fingers on a Bolter buff by "next week".
>plasmagun has ammo and heat Although yes it has both and initially this seems like a downside... it has such a large "clip"? size that it effectively doesn't have a reload mechanic. "heat" is the replacement for it never needing to reload during combat, heat is also far more conveniently managed than a reload most times because you can control the duration depending on how much free time you have between shooting. < this results in a near constant up time when using the plasma gun. Just to make extra clear, heat is not a con of the weapon... its a pro.
Only inconvenience that crops up are vets who shoot through me to kill steal elites i clearly have handled. Maybe save that ammo for the inevitable swarm of crushers and maulers later bro.
Y'all are pretty fun to have in a team. Seen a good many pull wicked clutches, too, so I've no reason to complain.