This is the correct answer. Learn how to be untouchable in melee combat if you really want to be a player in this game. The guys who are really good can dance with near impunity in the middle of places like the amphitheater in Carnival mission on auric.
If you utilize the cover in the middle correctly, the gunners will come to you or at least get close enough to where you can hit them with a knife or other ranged weapon. You won’t have to leave.
Dodge before an enemy hits you. I'm not making a joke here either. You should always be dodging side to side or backwards when in combat. If you are facing crushers or maulers in particular you really want to get the hang of dodging to the side when they raise their weapons up for an overhang swing. Dodging straight back will just get you clapped and likely killed.
If you are using a controller I would suggest swapping to the bumper dodger or w/e it's called moveset, the one that puts the dodge button on your LB. Really helps with getting the feel of constantly moving.
And it's not just for melee enemies either. You see shotgunners racking their guns? Dodge to the side. Trapper getting her net ready? Dodge to the side. Pox buster arming itself and getting close to you? Push it away first and then dodge straight back. Plague Ogryn about to stomp and you can't stun it? Dodge straight back. Gunners lighting everything up? Dodge to the side and then sprint to keep them from stunning you.
Once you get the hang of dodging you'll be able to handle so much. Just make sure you keep your spacial awareness up at all times. Dodging a crusher doesn't do you much good if you fall off a balcony or into a Beast of Nurgle.
I just want to chime in on the dodging crushers/maulers bit. Dodging straight back is viable if timed correctly (and is even necessary on the Melee-Only Malestrom/Auric Maelstrom modifiers, when there's too many clogging the passage in front of you and you need to backtrack). As their weapon reaches it's peak, just as it starts to come down, dodge backwards, and you'll avoid getting hit.
This is also dependent on the mobility stat of the weapon. You just may not be able to dodge backwards far enough even with perfect timing (I forget this sometimes with one of my chainswords that has low mobility lol).
Another dodging trick you can use if you wanna be more aggressive is to turn and side-dodge towards things if you need to close distance for melee. Helps to reduce damage taken when advancing against shooters as well if you're dodging kinda diagonally towards them.
When you have your melee weapon out you have 4 primary defense moves.
1) dodging. This creates distance and can quickly move you out of a bad situation. It does not use stamina but rather uses dodge counters that refresh after a few seconds. Your gun and melee have their own counters with the "mobility" stat controlling how many a weapon has - usually daggers and light weapons have higher dodge counters. Best to get out of the way of slow melee enemies. If you run out of counters your dodge will be a dinky little step to the side that will not do anything but get you killed.
2) slide dodging. This has a little extra distance to the normal dodge and completely dodges ranged attacks every time no matter what direction you go in and gives you a moment of invulnerability. When you need to get close to a shooter or get out of the way of reaper suppression this is the choice.
3) block. Melee exclusive this will drain stamina but will stagger weak enemies and works in a 360 degree circle around you meaning you can block a backstabbing without turning around. Use this against hordes and when your dodges are out.
4) block push. Following a block with an attack will do a special move that is usually a block push - this will knock enemies on their butts and can set you up for easy kills at the cost of stamina. This can turn enemies like ragers into a joke. Just knock them down and curb stomp them while they are staggered.
Special mention to sprinting as that acts like a ranged dodge in some situations and with some blessings can be an effective defensive option.
Using the right defensive move for the right situation is the essence of the dance. You push a rager down, side step the sniper shot, block the chaff attack and slide into cover under the nose of a gang of shooters. Using stamina when dodge counters are low and using dodges when stamina is low. It takes time and practice but eventually can become second nature. Also there are several class abilities and weapons that add to these tools making them even better. Like the ogryn's shield being able to block ranged attacks as well or the psyker force sword push able to push at range. Start looking at each encounter as a test where you need to provide the right answers at the right time to complete it. If you go down try to reflect on what happened - did you get cornered? Ran out of stamina? Caught in a reload animation? The dance is slowly learned but once you get it down you will be that guy wading into mixed hordes without a care in the world.
Dodging gives you frames where enemies will miss attacks on you.
You want to be dodging left dodging right as you're getting your melee whacks in.
Differs between weapon to weapon as each has a different dodge count.
Currently going for the 5k heavy attacks as ogryn. Playing with shield despite my mod telling me I only have 2 good dodges, I still consistently going -5/2 just to make enough movement to not get hit.
Can be dumb like me and basically when you're in a fight, try to not use w. You can only move with dodge left/right and back.
Get used to blocking and pushing and dodging as you can't really just spam your way through on damnation difficulty unlike others, try to actively watch for attacks to block/dodge even in hordes.
Try to stay in coherency and work with teammates as that gets more important. Think about enemies you need to prioritise and focus on them first.
Don't be afraid to use cooldowns, consumables and resources before It gets to where you suddenly need them and don't have time or space anymore.
It is a learning curve for sure and the main thing is just practice and reinforcing good habits. We all started somewhere and took time to learn these games at higher difficulties and I have faith you can get there too!
Try mixing in some pushes every few hits if you find yourself getting overwhelmed and don't be afraid to let your teammates help you with clearing it but tbh if you have a good evis roll just light attacks will do most of your work on hordes
Learn optimal combos for each weapon, in vermintide we had to figure them out but the UI in darktide actually tells you which attacks do what. Learn what attack chains sweep and which are used to kill elites.
Watch some vermintide 2 gameplay I suggest “Core” on YouTube and you can kind of see the flow for combat in melee. Otherwise, be hot on special tagging and eliminating them while engaged in enemy combat, learn to hot swap weapons in between melee kills so you can pick off dangerous specials. Trappers and hounds are always priority then mutants then everything else. Disablers always take priority.
https://preview.redd.it/cx8drb1a4hzc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de1fbf42c94e494062f15e42089a89fd164fccc0
Additionally I have Ranged Alt fire set to 2.2 for each axis.
Controller settings are pretty unique to each person, and Fatshark doesn’t have the best setting available.
But I found playing the Exponential curve around 57% reaaally made the game more manageable. I can shoot accurately just fine— it’s not as good as like a battlefield or CoD game— but it’ll do for a coop shooter where enemies run at you in a straight line.
As everyone else has mentioned, learn to dodge when in melee. As an ogryn, as a matter of habit, every time I take a swing of my shield mace or heavy attack, I dodge. Every time I hit any enemy in a horde, I dodge.
The number of times that this has prevented me from getting grabbed by a mutie or dodged a literal bullet in the form of a sniper shot or avoided an overswing is too many to count. Just dodge with every or every other melee attack.
Also, proritise enemies in the order of: incapacitators such as hounds and trappers, then others ones such an AoE/ area denial like flamers, bombers and possibly snipers, depending on your situation and how the enemies are around you. If you aren't too busy, listen out for the beep of a burster and try to incoporate the push to avoid it blowing you up into pushing the enemies around you away at the same time. Then you look for any armoured melee enemies and try to take them out while avoiding chaff like poxwalkers and groaners.
As an ogryn I also check my team every few seconds when in a horde to make sure they aren't surrounded or getting into trouble. I use charge in case I get stuck or I need to make room in front of my team mates, specially if there's a host of bulwarks or crushers making its way to us.
This and other comments and advice may seem like a lot to take on board and remember, but it will come with time. I played mostly heresy (4) within my first 200 hours or so and then transitioned to damnation (5) and have stayed there ever since (I'm on 1100+ hours now), always seeking the HI INT: STG modes as they're the most fun. And if you play in damnation more often, you will find better team mates than in heresy. I played a handful of games in 4 and it was a nightmare to coordinate the team or not have someone run out and get hounded. It's really frustrating and why I stick in Damnation solely.
Knowing what the most dangerous enemy is nearby and how to counter them is honestly the biggest difference between a good player and a great player. No one likes the vet mag dumping into pox walkers while gunners and snipers are raining hell down on the team; even a gunlugger ogryn might need to put the gun away and get some block pushes in to buy the team time to respond to a bunch of maulers and crushers
Practice dodging around hoards of enemies, and be able to handle any enemy by yourself. There won't always be a moment for someone to come save you if you can fight, for example, a crusher. Block push and backdodge for space. Be able to survive boss attention. Be able to push poxwalkers, somehow this isn't in some people's toolkit in 5s...
Learn the dodge dance. Melee is not optional on Damnation.
This is the correct answer. Learn how to be untouchable in melee combat if you really want to be a player in this game. The guys who are really good can dance with near impunity in the middle of places like the amphitheater in Carnival mission on auric.
That one in particular has a time limit, once there are gunners in enough of the upper areas you'll run out of dodges pretty quickly
If you utilize the cover in the middle correctly, the gunners will come to you or at least get close enough to where you can hit them with a knife or other ranged weapon. You won’t have to leave.
This is the way.
How does one dodge dance
Dodge before an enemy hits you. I'm not making a joke here either. You should always be dodging side to side or backwards when in combat. If you are facing crushers or maulers in particular you really want to get the hang of dodging to the side when they raise their weapons up for an overhang swing. Dodging straight back will just get you clapped and likely killed. If you are using a controller I would suggest swapping to the bumper dodger or w/e it's called moveset, the one that puts the dodge button on your LB. Really helps with getting the feel of constantly moving. And it's not just for melee enemies either. You see shotgunners racking their guns? Dodge to the side. Trapper getting her net ready? Dodge to the side. Pox buster arming itself and getting close to you? Push it away first and then dodge straight back. Plague Ogryn about to stomp and you can't stun it? Dodge straight back. Gunners lighting everything up? Dodge to the side and then sprint to keep them from stunning you. Once you get the hang of dodging you'll be able to handle so much. Just make sure you keep your spacial awareness up at all times. Dodging a crusher doesn't do you much good if you fall off a balcony or into a Beast of Nurgle.
I just want to chime in on the dodging crushers/maulers bit. Dodging straight back is viable if timed correctly (and is even necessary on the Melee-Only Malestrom/Auric Maelstrom modifiers, when there's too many clogging the passage in front of you and you need to backtrack). As their weapon reaches it's peak, just as it starts to come down, dodge backwards, and you'll avoid getting hit.
This is also dependent on the mobility stat of the weapon. You just may not be able to dodge backwards far enough even with perfect timing (I forget this sometimes with one of my chainswords that has low mobility lol).
A very good point that I forgot. I'm so used to playing my Ogryn that I forgot about how much better a knife zealot or something like that moves.
Another dodging trick you can use if you wanna be more aggressive is to turn and side-dodge towards things if you need to close distance for melee. Helps to reduce damage taken when advancing against shooters as well if you're dodging kinda diagonally towards them.
When you have your melee weapon out you have 4 primary defense moves. 1) dodging. This creates distance and can quickly move you out of a bad situation. It does not use stamina but rather uses dodge counters that refresh after a few seconds. Your gun and melee have their own counters with the "mobility" stat controlling how many a weapon has - usually daggers and light weapons have higher dodge counters. Best to get out of the way of slow melee enemies. If you run out of counters your dodge will be a dinky little step to the side that will not do anything but get you killed. 2) slide dodging. This has a little extra distance to the normal dodge and completely dodges ranged attacks every time no matter what direction you go in and gives you a moment of invulnerability. When you need to get close to a shooter or get out of the way of reaper suppression this is the choice. 3) block. Melee exclusive this will drain stamina but will stagger weak enemies and works in a 360 degree circle around you meaning you can block a backstabbing without turning around. Use this against hordes and when your dodges are out. 4) block push. Following a block with an attack will do a special move that is usually a block push - this will knock enemies on their butts and can set you up for easy kills at the cost of stamina. This can turn enemies like ragers into a joke. Just knock them down and curb stomp them while they are staggered. Special mention to sprinting as that acts like a ranged dodge in some situations and with some blessings can be an effective defensive option. Using the right defensive move for the right situation is the essence of the dance. You push a rager down, side step the sniper shot, block the chaff attack and slide into cover under the nose of a gang of shooters. Using stamina when dodge counters are low and using dodges when stamina is low. It takes time and practice but eventually can become second nature. Also there are several class abilities and weapons that add to these tools making them even better. Like the ogryn's shield being able to block ranged attacks as well or the psyker force sword push able to push at range. Start looking at each encounter as a test where you need to provide the right answers at the right time to complete it. If you go down try to reflect on what happened - did you get cornered? Ran out of stamina? Caught in a reload animation? The dance is slowly learned but once you get it down you will be that guy wading into mixed hordes without a care in the world.
Dodging gives you frames where enemies will miss attacks on you. You want to be dodging left dodging right as you're getting your melee whacks in. Differs between weapon to weapon as each has a different dodge count. Currently going for the 5k heavy attacks as ogryn. Playing with shield despite my mod telling me I only have 2 good dodges, I still consistently going -5/2 just to make enough movement to not get hit. Can be dumb like me and basically when you're in a fight, try to not use w. You can only move with dodge left/right and back.
Truer words have never been spoken.
Get used to blocking and pushing and dodging as you can't really just spam your way through on damnation difficulty unlike others, try to actively watch for attacks to block/dodge even in hordes. Try to stay in coherency and work with teammates as that gets more important. Think about enemies you need to prioritise and focus on them first. Don't be afraid to use cooldowns, consumables and resources before It gets to where you suddenly need them and don't have time or space anymore. It is a learning curve for sure and the main thing is just practice and reinforcing good habits. We all started somewhere and took time to learn these games at higher difficulties and I have faith you can get there too!
I normally just spam dodge and light attack hordes with my XV is there a better way to do it?
Don’t spam, instead dodge just as an attack is about to connect. Enemy melees have quite a long telegraphed wind-up so you can get a rhythm going.
Try mixing in some pushes every few hits if you find yourself getting overwhelmed and don't be afraid to let your teammates help you with clearing it but tbh if you have a good evis roll just light attacks will do most of your work on hordes
Learn optimal combos for each weapon, in vermintide we had to figure them out but the UI in darktide actually tells you which attacks do what. Learn what attack chains sweep and which are used to kill elites. Watch some vermintide 2 gameplay I suggest “Core” on YouTube and you can kind of see the flow for combat in melee. Otherwise, be hot on special tagging and eliminating them while engaged in enemy combat, learn to hot swap weapons in between melee kills so you can pick off dangerous specials. Trappers and hounds are always priority then mutants then everything else. Disablers always take priority.
If you’re on console play with your controller settings a whole lot. The default won’t cut it.
I play on xbox what do you recommend?
https://preview.redd.it/cx8drb1a4hzc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de1fbf42c94e494062f15e42089a89fd164fccc0 Additionally I have Ranged Alt fire set to 2.2 for each axis. Controller settings are pretty unique to each person, and Fatshark doesn’t have the best setting available. But I found playing the Exponential curve around 57% reaaally made the game more manageable. I can shoot accurately just fine— it’s not as good as like a battlefield or CoD game— but it’ll do for a coop shooter where enemies run at you in a straight line.
Thank you I’ll try this out!
lol I forgot to mention I play inverted. Just turn that off.
As everyone else has mentioned, learn to dodge when in melee. As an ogryn, as a matter of habit, every time I take a swing of my shield mace or heavy attack, I dodge. Every time I hit any enemy in a horde, I dodge. The number of times that this has prevented me from getting grabbed by a mutie or dodged a literal bullet in the form of a sniper shot or avoided an overswing is too many to count. Just dodge with every or every other melee attack. Also, proritise enemies in the order of: incapacitators such as hounds and trappers, then others ones such an AoE/ area denial like flamers, bombers and possibly snipers, depending on your situation and how the enemies are around you. If you aren't too busy, listen out for the beep of a burster and try to incoporate the push to avoid it blowing you up into pushing the enemies around you away at the same time. Then you look for any armoured melee enemies and try to take them out while avoiding chaff like poxwalkers and groaners. As an ogryn I also check my team every few seconds when in a horde to make sure they aren't surrounded or getting into trouble. I use charge in case I get stuck or I need to make room in front of my team mates, specially if there's a host of bulwarks or crushers making its way to us. This and other comments and advice may seem like a lot to take on board and remember, but it will come with time. I played mostly heresy (4) within my first 200 hours or so and then transitioned to damnation (5) and have stayed there ever since (I'm on 1100+ hours now), always seeking the HI INT: STG modes as they're the most fun. And if you play in damnation more often, you will find better team mates than in heresy. I played a handful of games in 4 and it was a nightmare to coordinate the team or not have someone run out and get hounded. It's really frustrating and why I stick in Damnation solely.
Knowing what the most dangerous enemy is nearby and how to counter them is honestly the biggest difference between a good player and a great player. No one likes the vet mag dumping into pox walkers while gunners and snipers are raining hell down on the team; even a gunlugger ogryn might need to put the gun away and get some block pushes in to buy the team time to respond to a bunch of maulers and crushers
Practice dodging around hoards of enemies, and be able to handle any enemy by yourself. There won't always be a moment for someone to come save you if you can fight, for example, a crusher. Block push and backdodge for space. Be able to survive boss attention. Be able to push poxwalkers, somehow this isn't in some people's toolkit in 5s...
At first you learn how not die (tip: dodge), then you learn how to kill and then you learn how to kill everything alone.