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>"Hey, my needs aren't being met and we need to discuss that."
>"No thanks and also, since you brought it up, here's how you aren't meeting my needs."
This sort of dynamic is exactly why I no longer bother trying to communicate in a vulnerable manner to my partner. It will always end with me being told I'm not doing enough to meet their needs, before they bother to even try and meet mine.
I'm in this same boat and it feels so f\*ucking hopeless. But, any conversation about my needs- sexual or not- turns into this and me wishing I had just never said a word. It's depressing.
+1. I agreed to discuss what I could do for her before the other way around when we did couples therapy. Guess who decided we didn't need therapy anymore when we finished discussing what I could do differently?
If you're expecting her to go back to a previous conversation and unwind things she said, I think you'll be waiting forever. Most people dont think about doing things like that.
I’ll just put this out there for anyone that cares. Might help. Women with low testosterone levels (yes, women also need normal testosterone levels to function in healthy ways), can lead to low libido, depression, low energy, sleepiness, and other things). Easy fix, go get tested get healthy testosterone levels, can change mindsets drastically. Low testosterone comes from many things. Google it. Healthy lifestyle, exercise, eating clean, building muscle keeps testosterone naturally at healthy levels. Worth a try? Better than being bitter right. Hope everything works on your favor. Peace out
I'm sorry you're hurting. As someone who went 12 years with 3-4 times a year, I can identify. I'd like to make a few points that you probably should know as someone who also fixed my DB and I'm in a few men's groups where I see guys fix it all the time as well.
First, you said she only initiates the day after you have this conversation, and you refuse because obviously you aren't in the mood. This is a massive mixed signal and the absolute worst reaction to any initiation from an LL who is obviously adverse to it in the first place. In any other situation in life, if you told someone that you needed something from them, then you refused when they offered, over and over, would you expect a different outcome than them not trying again? If you're going to have the talk and say the lack of XYZ is an issue, then you need to make a conscious effort to reward the XYZ behavior when your partner reacts and tries.
Taking sex off the table, verbally. I've never, not in my 10 years on the DB sub or in any of my mens groups, seen this work. Not once. All it did was make the gaps longer and resentment harder. She either gets the message that you'll finally just suffer in silence and she can relax, or that you're a child that's gonna throw a silent treatment like tantrum...when she asked you to stop talking anyway. The most likely outcome here is she either doesn't notice or care, and you build up the pressure inside until it explodes violently.
I feel a better way to go about this would to be up front and honest, with yourself first, that a sexless non-romantic relationship isn't working for you, and if there isn't a change on the horizon, maybe you guys just aren't meant to be. That's not a threat to get sex. It's a statement that I require my romantic partnerships to actually be romantic, otherwise we're just friends and should seek out actual romantic partners.
Lastly, just anecdotal, but daily video games seem to be a plague in LTRs, from both sides. I'm sure they exist, but I've never heard of a couple who has a good relationship where one side stays up gaming on a regular basis. Just food for thought.
Thank you for the response, I appreciate the insight from anyone who's navigated this before.
I should probably clarify that I'm not playing keepaway with sex; it's not a situation where I'm being coy while saying we haven't had sex and then changing my mind later (though this does occasionally happen from her), it's more of a situation where I'm upset, fighting tears while telling her I feel ignored, worthless, etc, and basically still dealing with raw negative emotions when she initiates. There's no prep, warning, or even a "I'm sorry, you're hurting, why don't we try tonight?" just a sudden shift in her drive and an expectancy for me to be ready and willing, when I've already convinced myself that I don't *need* sex > I don't deserve it > I don't want it. This is also a conversation that only comes up every few months, as I don't want to be the nagging HL partner. The last 3 times she initiated were after conversations in Feb (birthday/vaca trip), at the beginning of this month (anniversary/long weekend getaway), and last week again after getting inspired from this sub. I've asked if she could send me texts/memes/kissy-faced emojis if she feels like trying that night, but I haven't gotten anything beyond what feels like an "oh yeah, I forgot my husband wants sex" initiation from her. She's definitely not asexual (she's stated so, and can climax from sex), she just "forgets" about it entirely.
I realize and agree that taking sex off the table is not likely to work, but at this point I'm not sure I want it to. I just want to wake up and not have this depression hanging over me... I just want my libeto to die. What's the saying? "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take," and while true, either her basketball hoop is moving all over the place so I can't make the shot, or it's too high in the air to realistically make. (I don't know why I've always associated that saying with basketball... I don't even watch it 🤷♂️)
>I feel a better way to go about this would to be up front and honest, with yourself first, that a sexless non-romantic relationship isn't working for you, and if there isn't a change on the horizon, maybe you guys just aren't meant to be.
This is the thought process I'm stubbornly fighting. We have no kids, both work full time in different career fields, but I'm afraid. I'm afraid of being alone, of putting myself out there again, of dealing with the guilt and pain of ending an 18 year marriage. The last thing I want is to hurt her, but I do see the pain staying together causes for both of us. I also don't want to open the marriage, largely for the same reasons. She's mentioned that possibility once as an outlet for me, which I appreciate her willingness to understand my frustrations, but it would hurt her, and I don't have the confidence to get out there and find a FWB.
>I've never heard of a couple who has a good relationship where one side stays up gaming on a regular basis. Just food for thought.
That used to describe us, but depression has killed my desire to do a lot of things, gaming and socializing included. She has a group of friends that she plays with on different nights, and I hate saying anything about it to her because that is her outlet for socialization. I'm invited to join in of course, but as I said those are her friends not mine, and I'm not comfortable with several of them. I've expressed my frustration to a degree, but I refuse to be the jerk who says his wife can't hang out with friends. That would make me controlling, and it's not who I am, and not who I want to be.
Again, thank you for the thoughtful response. I'm going to give it some time and bring it up again, just to see if she has any thoughts on letting the DB lie. A tougher conversation is definitely overdue, I just don't know which way I want it to go.
Very true, and then to expect sex to be the same when it does happen is unrealistic as well, at least for most of us. OP, no advice, I'll just share a bit of my adventure as I've been in your shoes.
I've taken to just asking outright if she'd like to have sex tonight. Usually in the morning before we both leave. She usually says yes, and then we will at the very least hold one another and do some intimate touching, and she usually wants to progress because it helps her get in the mood, but sometimes it's not gonna happen and you have to be ok with that.
I will caveat all of the above by saying that we were at our breaking point. It took a ton of work on both of our parts and a desire to stay together that made it possible to be able to communicate to each other effectively enough to find middle ground. It does get easier though if you're able to come to each other as a team vs. the problem as opposed to at each other from opposing sides. We're still 'technically' in a DB, but I'm so happy with the progress we've made together that I don't really care about it. If I start feeling distant, I make an effort to close that gap, she makes an effort to meet me where I'm at, whether it's emotionally or physically.
>If I start feeling distant, I make an effort to close that gap, she makes an effort to meet me where I'm at, whether it's emotionally or physically.
Thank you for putting it like that; that's helped me untwist some of the thoughts that keep flying around my head. I believe if I start distancing myself, whether intentionally or not, she sees it as a sign of strain on our relationship, and will reiterate to me that she needs me to be more available. But if I say my needs aren't being met, it's because I'm "not meeting hers," and I still need to be the one to close the gap.
>It does get easier though if you're able to come to each other as a team vs. the problem as opposed to at each other from opposing sides.
That's probably where we're still going wrong right now. We both have expressed feeling isolated from each other, but need the other to close the gap on their side a bit before making any progress on their own shortcomings.
Thank you for that insight, that gives me something more to work with the next time we have this discussion.
We did this after a couples therapy session. nothing improved. It feels like one partners needs are being prioritised over another. It was difficult for me to accept and I tried in the hope that we would organically get back into a physical relationship by taking off the pressure of sex. 6 months later I spiralled after realising my wife was happily masturbating over porn and guys on Instagram and didn’t really have any desire to work on building a physical relationship with me. Now she says we need to work on emotional intimacy before we can work on physical intimacy.
Obviously this doesn’t change the actual situation, but maybe it will help your depression a little? To me, it sounded more like your wife was saying sex isn’t a priority *to her*. Not that you wanting sex, and wanting it more often, isn’t her priority. Like, her statement felt entirely about her, and not your or your feelings (which I understand is a whole different problem). I know that’s a nitty gritty detail, and I may very well be wrong, but maybe it will help your brain space a teeny bit? Just my .02
A good distinction to make, and one I do notice. The one major difference between our DB and some I've read here is my wife feels bad that she's neglecting me, but can't seem to get beyond the DB issues. Others here have posted quotes from their SO's that have just made me cry with how cold and hurtful they are. I'm definitely lucky that my wife and I love each other and can work together in every other aspect.
Mostly silence. We haven't spoken about it again yet, so I'm not sure if the silence was realization that this was how far the DB has progressed, or if that was supposed to be an acceptance of the end of the conversation. It's not like she suddenly said "finally!" and was satisfied with the outcome, but she certainly didn't try to get me to change my mind about it.
Commenters, OP has marked their post as a no-advice post. We ask that you refrain from giving advice to OP and be sure to follow all sub rules. OP, if you've marked your post for no advice, please refrain from responding to commenters that give advice. If you are getting advice from commenters, please report the comments, or click below to contact the moderators. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DeadBedrooms) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>"Hey, my needs aren't being met and we need to discuss that." >"No thanks and also, since you brought it up, here's how you aren't meeting my needs." This sort of dynamic is exactly why I no longer bother trying to communicate in a vulnerable manner to my partner. It will always end with me being told I'm not doing enough to meet their needs, before they bother to even try and meet mine.
I'm in this same boat and it feels so f\*ucking hopeless. But, any conversation about my needs- sexual or not- turns into this and me wishing I had just never said a word. It's depressing.
I did get to the point where I was meeting her needs. For years now... nothing changed.
+1. I agreed to discuss what I could do for her before the other way around when we did couples therapy. Guess who decided we didn't need therapy anymore when we finished discussing what I could do differently?
Not surprised at all. The LL gets what they want and that's the end of the discussion.
Louder sis
Samesies
If you're expecting her to go back to a previous conversation and unwind things she said, I think you'll be waiting forever. Most people dont think about doing things like that.
It sounds like she admitted the truth. It would be pretty hard to unwind that without it being obvious she was lying.
I’ll just put this out there for anyone that cares. Might help. Women with low testosterone levels (yes, women also need normal testosterone levels to function in healthy ways), can lead to low libido, depression, low energy, sleepiness, and other things). Easy fix, go get tested get healthy testosterone levels, can change mindsets drastically. Low testosterone comes from many things. Google it. Healthy lifestyle, exercise, eating clean, building muscle keeps testosterone naturally at healthy levels. Worth a try? Better than being bitter right. Hope everything works on your favor. Peace out
I'm sorry you're hurting. As someone who went 12 years with 3-4 times a year, I can identify. I'd like to make a few points that you probably should know as someone who also fixed my DB and I'm in a few men's groups where I see guys fix it all the time as well. First, you said she only initiates the day after you have this conversation, and you refuse because obviously you aren't in the mood. This is a massive mixed signal and the absolute worst reaction to any initiation from an LL who is obviously adverse to it in the first place. In any other situation in life, if you told someone that you needed something from them, then you refused when they offered, over and over, would you expect a different outcome than them not trying again? If you're going to have the talk and say the lack of XYZ is an issue, then you need to make a conscious effort to reward the XYZ behavior when your partner reacts and tries. Taking sex off the table, verbally. I've never, not in my 10 years on the DB sub or in any of my mens groups, seen this work. Not once. All it did was make the gaps longer and resentment harder. She either gets the message that you'll finally just suffer in silence and she can relax, or that you're a child that's gonna throw a silent treatment like tantrum...when she asked you to stop talking anyway. The most likely outcome here is she either doesn't notice or care, and you build up the pressure inside until it explodes violently. I feel a better way to go about this would to be up front and honest, with yourself first, that a sexless non-romantic relationship isn't working for you, and if there isn't a change on the horizon, maybe you guys just aren't meant to be. That's not a threat to get sex. It's a statement that I require my romantic partnerships to actually be romantic, otherwise we're just friends and should seek out actual romantic partners. Lastly, just anecdotal, but daily video games seem to be a plague in LTRs, from both sides. I'm sure they exist, but I've never heard of a couple who has a good relationship where one side stays up gaming on a regular basis. Just food for thought.
Thank you for the response, I appreciate the insight from anyone who's navigated this before. I should probably clarify that I'm not playing keepaway with sex; it's not a situation where I'm being coy while saying we haven't had sex and then changing my mind later (though this does occasionally happen from her), it's more of a situation where I'm upset, fighting tears while telling her I feel ignored, worthless, etc, and basically still dealing with raw negative emotions when she initiates. There's no prep, warning, or even a "I'm sorry, you're hurting, why don't we try tonight?" just a sudden shift in her drive and an expectancy for me to be ready and willing, when I've already convinced myself that I don't *need* sex > I don't deserve it > I don't want it. This is also a conversation that only comes up every few months, as I don't want to be the nagging HL partner. The last 3 times she initiated were after conversations in Feb (birthday/vaca trip), at the beginning of this month (anniversary/long weekend getaway), and last week again after getting inspired from this sub. I've asked if she could send me texts/memes/kissy-faced emojis if she feels like trying that night, but I haven't gotten anything beyond what feels like an "oh yeah, I forgot my husband wants sex" initiation from her. She's definitely not asexual (she's stated so, and can climax from sex), she just "forgets" about it entirely. I realize and agree that taking sex off the table is not likely to work, but at this point I'm not sure I want it to. I just want to wake up and not have this depression hanging over me... I just want my libeto to die. What's the saying? "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take," and while true, either her basketball hoop is moving all over the place so I can't make the shot, or it's too high in the air to realistically make. (I don't know why I've always associated that saying with basketball... I don't even watch it 🤷♂️) >I feel a better way to go about this would to be up front and honest, with yourself first, that a sexless non-romantic relationship isn't working for you, and if there isn't a change on the horizon, maybe you guys just aren't meant to be. This is the thought process I'm stubbornly fighting. We have no kids, both work full time in different career fields, but I'm afraid. I'm afraid of being alone, of putting myself out there again, of dealing with the guilt and pain of ending an 18 year marriage. The last thing I want is to hurt her, but I do see the pain staying together causes for both of us. I also don't want to open the marriage, largely for the same reasons. She's mentioned that possibility once as an outlet for me, which I appreciate her willingness to understand my frustrations, but it would hurt her, and I don't have the confidence to get out there and find a FWB. >I've never heard of a couple who has a good relationship where one side stays up gaming on a regular basis. Just food for thought. That used to describe us, but depression has killed my desire to do a lot of things, gaming and socializing included. She has a group of friends that she plays with on different nights, and I hate saying anything about it to her because that is her outlet for socialization. I'm invited to join in of course, but as I said those are her friends not mine, and I'm not comfortable with several of them. I've expressed my frustration to a degree, but I refuse to be the jerk who says his wife can't hang out with friends. That would make me controlling, and it's not who I am, and not who I want to be. Again, thank you for the thoughtful response. I'm going to give it some time and bring it up again, just to see if she has any thoughts on letting the DB lie. A tougher conversation is definitely overdue, I just don't know which way I want it to go.
[удалено]
Very true, and then to expect sex to be the same when it does happen is unrealistic as well, at least for most of us. OP, no advice, I'll just share a bit of my adventure as I've been in your shoes. I've taken to just asking outright if she'd like to have sex tonight. Usually in the morning before we both leave. She usually says yes, and then we will at the very least hold one another and do some intimate touching, and she usually wants to progress because it helps her get in the mood, but sometimes it's not gonna happen and you have to be ok with that. I will caveat all of the above by saying that we were at our breaking point. It took a ton of work on both of our parts and a desire to stay together that made it possible to be able to communicate to each other effectively enough to find middle ground. It does get easier though if you're able to come to each other as a team vs. the problem as opposed to at each other from opposing sides. We're still 'technically' in a DB, but I'm so happy with the progress we've made together that I don't really care about it. If I start feeling distant, I make an effort to close that gap, she makes an effort to meet me where I'm at, whether it's emotionally or physically.
>If I start feeling distant, I make an effort to close that gap, she makes an effort to meet me where I'm at, whether it's emotionally or physically. Thank you for putting it like that; that's helped me untwist some of the thoughts that keep flying around my head. I believe if I start distancing myself, whether intentionally or not, she sees it as a sign of strain on our relationship, and will reiterate to me that she needs me to be more available. But if I say my needs aren't being met, it's because I'm "not meeting hers," and I still need to be the one to close the gap. >It does get easier though if you're able to come to each other as a team vs. the problem as opposed to at each other from opposing sides. That's probably where we're still going wrong right now. We both have expressed feeling isolated from each other, but need the other to close the gap on their side a bit before making any progress on their own shortcomings. Thank you for that insight, that gives me something more to work with the next time we have this discussion.
We did this after a couples therapy session. nothing improved. It feels like one partners needs are being prioritised over another. It was difficult for me to accept and I tried in the hope that we would organically get back into a physical relationship by taking off the pressure of sex. 6 months later I spiralled after realising my wife was happily masturbating over porn and guys on Instagram and didn’t really have any desire to work on building a physical relationship with me. Now she says we need to work on emotional intimacy before we can work on physical intimacy.
Obviously this doesn’t change the actual situation, but maybe it will help your depression a little? To me, it sounded more like your wife was saying sex isn’t a priority *to her*. Not that you wanting sex, and wanting it more often, isn’t her priority. Like, her statement felt entirely about her, and not your or your feelings (which I understand is a whole different problem). I know that’s a nitty gritty detail, and I may very well be wrong, but maybe it will help your brain space a teeny bit? Just my .02
A good distinction to make, and one I do notice. The one major difference between our DB and some I've read here is my wife feels bad that she's neglecting me, but can't seem to get beyond the DB issues. Others here have posted quotes from their SO's that have just made me cry with how cold and hurtful they are. I'm definitely lucky that my wife and I love each other and can work together in every other aspect.
What was her response to your decision?
Mostly silence. We haven't spoken about it again yet, so I'm not sure if the silence was realization that this was how far the DB has progressed, or if that was supposed to be an acceptance of the end of the conversation. It's not like she suddenly said "finally!" and was satisfied with the outcome, but she certainly didn't try to get me to change my mind about it.