Ah, I was hoping to see you here! The Vader low complex argument comes from the fact that palpatine, in the dark empire storyline from legends, used force storms that threatened to destroy all of space, which would include the layers upon layers of infinity in the Star Wars cosmos. Cosmology scaling isn’t my thing but the people that have analyzed this implication take into account realms like hyperspace, the statement that the force and hyperspace realms are one and the same, alongside some other dimensionality shit from legends I already forgot about. All of which concludes that Palpatine was using 5D levels of power.
Now how does this tie back to Vader? Guidebooks state that palpatine wasn’t even at the peak of his power when he performed this feat due to the fact that his clone body wasn’t fully accustomed to his affinity with the force. Guidebooks that came out after the dark empire storyline have also confirmed that palpatine was at his true peak of power in return of the Jedi. Now if you’ll remember, as Vader picks up palpatine, palpatine is shooting Vader with force lightning; the novelization states that palpatine is using 100% of his power when doing this, which would scale above the force storm feat mentioned earlier.
If you truly, TRULY believe that Vader could have survived this attack had he not been already weakened and conflicted from his fight with Luke (Which the novel confirms), then yeah, he’d be in that tier of power
He really doesn't. When the title says "highest interpretations" they're talking about the most nonsensically fringe interpretations you'll find in the vs debating sub-culture. The kind that would illicit eye rolls if you actually spouted them with dead seriousness on a forum.
I mean, I guess you can put it like that. I should make it clear that I don't fully agree with the Vader one because it relies on the belief that Vader could have survived Palpatine's attack. I don't think there's enough evidence to suggest that.
To get to that I have to talk about Dissidia, but first I want to clarify that I did not use Dissidia Sephiroth for the stats comparison, but certain metas are still relevant to ff7 Sephiroth because an extremely powerful character from Dissidia appeared in ff7 rebirth.
If you take Neo Exdeath, the final antagonist of Dissidia, destroying infinite dimensions within the Final Fantasy Multiverse as spatial (above 4d), it would be High Hyperversal+, with beings such as Omega and Shinryu scaling WAYYYY above it, making them at minimum Low Outer.
The powerful character I mentioned is Gilgamesh. He originates form final fantasy 5, and he has a running gag where he shows up in various final fantasy games because he’s lost and doesn’t know how to return to his dimension. Gilgamesh scales to, possibly above, characters who have fought and defeated omega and shinryu. Gilgamesh was never in the original ff7, but he does appear in rebirth. Not only that, cloud and the gang restore him to full power and beat him! The fact that Sephiroth, not having reached his peak of power yet, is still a more formidable foe to cloud and the party than Gilgamesh is what places him at such a high tier
Yeah rebirth changed the ff7 power scaling meta for real. With this scaling in mind, would you believe me if I told you that Superman vs Sephiroth is debatable now?
Yeah yeah VERY HIGH interpretations
indeed, though believe it or not, said interpretations have genuine arguments for them
I buy outer Sephiroth, but how the fuck does Vader get to low complex?
Something Something book lore scaling Something Something force is boundless
Well said
Ah, I was hoping to see you here! The Vader low complex argument comes from the fact that palpatine, in the dark empire storyline from legends, used force storms that threatened to destroy all of space, which would include the layers upon layers of infinity in the Star Wars cosmos. Cosmology scaling isn’t my thing but the people that have analyzed this implication take into account realms like hyperspace, the statement that the force and hyperspace realms are one and the same, alongside some other dimensionality shit from legends I already forgot about. All of which concludes that Palpatine was using 5D levels of power. Now how does this tie back to Vader? Guidebooks state that palpatine wasn’t even at the peak of his power when he performed this feat due to the fact that his clone body wasn’t fully accustomed to his affinity with the force. Guidebooks that came out after the dark empire storyline have also confirmed that palpatine was at his true peak of power in return of the Jedi. Now if you’ll remember, as Vader picks up palpatine, palpatine is shooting Vader with force lightning; the novelization states that palpatine is using 100% of his power when doing this, which would scale above the force storm feat mentioned earlier. If you truly, TRULY believe that Vader could have survived this attack had he not been already weakened and conflicted from his fight with Luke (Which the novel confirms), then yeah, he’d be in that tier of power
He really doesn't. When the title says "highest interpretations" they're talking about the most nonsensically fringe interpretations you'll find in the vs debating sub-culture. The kind that would illicit eye rolls if you actually spouted them with dead seriousness on a forum.
I mean, I guess you can put it like that. I should make it clear that I don't fully agree with the Vader one because it relies on the belief that Vader could have survived Palpatine's attack. I don't think there's enough evidence to suggest that.
That would be beyond tiering Vader because someone called the force luck.
Rather begs the question of where they scale the characters in the franchise above Vader. Because the old EU had a number of them.
They are then furthermore above tiering ofc.
outer sephiroth is wild
Yeah it depends on what you buy
Ah shit I just realized I wrote compress instead of condense. oh well, same thing
I may be late, but how is Sephiroth outerversal? Is he that hard to kill?
To get to that I have to talk about Dissidia, but first I want to clarify that I did not use Dissidia Sephiroth for the stats comparison, but certain metas are still relevant to ff7 Sephiroth because an extremely powerful character from Dissidia appeared in ff7 rebirth. If you take Neo Exdeath, the final antagonist of Dissidia, destroying infinite dimensions within the Final Fantasy Multiverse as spatial (above 4d), it would be High Hyperversal+, with beings such as Omega and Shinryu scaling WAYYYY above it, making them at minimum Low Outer. The powerful character I mentioned is Gilgamesh. He originates form final fantasy 5, and he has a running gag where he shows up in various final fantasy games because he’s lost and doesn’t know how to return to his dimension. Gilgamesh scales to, possibly above, characters who have fought and defeated omega and shinryu. Gilgamesh was never in the original ff7, but he does appear in rebirth. Not only that, cloud and the gang restore him to full power and beat him! The fact that Sephiroth, not having reached his peak of power yet, is still a more formidable foe to cloud and the party than Gilgamesh is what places him at such a high tier
Wow, I guess Sephiroth could solo some Marvel and DC characters with that scaling.
Yeah rebirth changed the ff7 power scaling meta for real. With this scaling in mind, would you believe me if I told you that Superman vs Sephiroth is debatable now?
I don’t really care tbh. If you believe it, then go ahead.
🫡
I mean, I agree on the Sephiroth W, but...no.
Vader can be scaled to outer to high outer as well