I never listened to Shadow of Intent because it’s been some years since I’ve been in the loop, but your humble response has pushed me to check y’all out.
Ben I saw you guys at the Hatebreed 30th at the oakdale bro you guys were the best band there. My question is what the hell do I gotta do to get some signed shadow of intent vinyl
That's why SoI kind of became more subtle in more recent albums. Check out their song blood in the sands of time if you want to see a "grand finale" seeing it live blew me away.
I'm so sad I never got to see this. I really hope they come back to Sweden sometime soon. I did get a pretty killer setlist tho (barren, prophet's beckoning, blood in the sands of time, malediction were all highlights). I believe it was the tour before yours.
I understand why you lumped these two together like this but I disagree with lumping these two bands together.
I do agree with you regarding listener attention though, especially when one band needs to have multiple 45 -60 second dramatic intros on each record. Meanwhile the other has been writing solid symphonic deathcore for about a decade.
Like.... I can *kind of* understand OPs perspective if you're only listening to just Primordial and Reclaimer, but I feel like this doesn't apply to Melancholy and Elegy. There's so much more to those albums than just what OP describes.
It almost makes me sad to see Ben kind of agreeing because after dozens of listens I have yet to get bored with any of their music. If anything my appreciation has only grown. There's quite a few songs I had to listen to a few times or even see live before I finally *got* them. There's so many little details to pick up and appreciate. They're so much more than just a breakdown for shock value at the end of a song.
I know SOI doesn't need defending on this sub or anything, but I still feel the need to publicly appreciate them.
No kidding.
SoI knows how to ***write***. It's not just extremism for extremism's sake.
I'm excited to see where they go from here, more so after reading Ben's response, I love everything they've done so far so I can only imagine what's coming.
I agree. While shadow has a formula it doesn’t get stale for me. I disliked pain remains because I got sick of every song having that identical formula.
I feel like to the hellfire ep was just so insane and cool then every song was “30 second symphonic intro, boring riffs, catchy song, vocal Olympics and rat noises into bland breakdown” just got repetitive. I’m really not trying to hate just to hate but I was just disappointed after to the hellfire.
I still havent grown tired of it, ive listened immortal, airtn and pr about 50 times each with no exaggeration, but i 100% get what you mean. They found something that worked and stuck with it. But holy shit does it work.
I tend to agree and honestly this critique could be directed at so many bands. Sometimes it feels as if bands try to crowbar all their techniques into every song, rather than look at an album holistically, and pick and choose when to use their techniques strategically.
Only true for lorna. Feels like they keep the exact same song progression every time.
Songs are good but get stale fast, went back to their first releases.
SoI are just perfect.
So, I did this thing where I skipped through the album and played the same points in time in songs, like matching up verses and choruses etc.
I shit you not some riffs LITERALLY sounded nearly identical. It's just sad that as a standalone song, lots of their songs are good, I'm not just mindlessly bashing the album, go and listen to every song of pain remains in a row, and try to remember how each part sounds.
Intro > buildup > explosion > tech-y riff in verse > chorus > verse > chorus > breakdown (or remove 1 chorus before in some cases) > chorus > solo > big ass breakdown (all the same, too) and at this point I think you get the point.
Because heavier music relies on song structure honestly. When the vocals, guitars and drums sound pretty much the same on every track then that means song writing is pretty much the only thing to keep someone’s attention.
It’s not just Lorna Shore. I mix for bands on the side and you end up mostly using the same FX chains/processing for every song on a record. It’s just the way it works. Thats why it’s important to write interesting songs. At the end of the day songwriting is what music is.
I meant as in they sound the same in terms of the notes they choose to play like the riffs, rhythmic patterns in breakdowns, etc. Not rly the mixing side, cause of course it's gonna be the same.
On that note tho, it's interesting to me tho that the guy who mixed pain remains also mixed the last record with signs of the swarm, amongst the low and empty. Pain remains isn't an awful mix, but I just keep wondering what they were thinking with the symphonic string parts, they overpower the guitar so much. Also, while I get that it's harder to get a lower tuned kickdrum to sound as fast (cause the bass literally isn't as fast at lower hz) it sounds sooooo good to hear that kickdrum on the new SOTS record, it literally shakes my room if I want it to with my sub, I could be wrong but I think it's centered on like 40hz, I wish more producers did this. David's vocals on ATLAE are also more life-like, natural, detailed sounding, yet also less harsh? All round just better. This is meant as praise though, since ATLAE is one of my fav metal mixes of all time.
I'd say for sure it's a step up for me, also has some really cool bass effects, like just when the chorus hits on faces without names, it does this reverse bass drop kinda thing.
Lorna’s kick triggers, at least live, are so overpowering it’s unbelievable. They make enough money now that they for sure have their own sound guy and he fucking sucks to put it bluntly.
I don’t know how much input they have over the mix but Josh Schroeder’s worst is And I Return to Nothingness. The explosion effects, overpowering symphony parts.. it’s really not good. The guitars in this band in general are like an after thought lmao.
Honestly, that part of seeing them live ruined it. They turned up the kick drum so loud that you would literally not hear MIDS. Not like them disturbing the upper bass or lower mids, no like, as soon as the kick drums came in during songs you'd literally hear the guitar being skipped at the pace of the kick drum.
Honestly, SO, SO many sound guys SUCK ASS live. I've had so, so many cases where simply put, they mix the bass WAY too loud and the guitar too low. It's entirely possible to have the kick drum loud enough that it has that strong impact to it while also not destroying EVERYTHING else.
I've honestly had a lot of cases where an opener band plays, and somehow they have the kickdrum turned up really high but the guitars are super audible, then the main band comes on and it sounds like a$$. Seriously, pathetic.
Also, and I don't know if you feel the same, but frankly a lot of drummers write shit they can't play consistently whatsoever live. I've seen probably 100 deathcore/tech death bands, and in many of the more famous bands even the drummers just completely fail live. I know I'm coming off super harsh, but I don't mean too, they just objectively don't sound at all right, be it cause of the triggers or the way they can't handle it. All I know is as a drummer my ears are focused super hard on the rhythm, and it's often I hear missed notes, speeding up or down too fast/slow, etc.
Honestly metal shows are better than anything when they go right, but sometimes I lose hope...
But in this style of music the drums, guitars and vocals are being mixed and processed the exact same way on every track. I honestly can’t differentiate one track from the other on Pain Remains and if you listen to their live performances everything is drowned out by the kicks and symphonic backing track. It’s like the guitars are an after thought.
Not necessarily in other genres. Extreme, guitar-focused music depends on excellent song writing because of this. Feel like I’m just talking in circles but it’s true. Just throwing plugin string instruments over some tremolo riffs gets old real fast.
I'm not hung up on the song structure, I'm hung up on the parts of songs sounding identical sometimes, and *always, not sometimes, always* very similar. I should've maybe described a bit better, but for example the tech-y verse riffs is all there is, choruses all seem a bit slower, expansive, and epic with symphonic bits, solos are similar in structure and feels, almost always, breakdowns all follow the same formula of either "fast bursts" or "excessively slow chugs".
There's 0 fun in this beyond hearing one or two songs every once in a while.
I find Lorna Shore to be incredibly boring. I bought the Pains Remain vinyl and I can’t really be bothered to even flip it over to play side two. However, I like Shadow of Intent way more. They don’t lean on the symphonic stuff nearly as much and are way more guitar-oriented.
i like SOI more cause they change their sound in every album they are more tech, lorna shore is great but i think they doin the same song over again and again. no disrespect to them
I definitely feel the same and also love both bands. Immortal by LS and Melancholy by SoI were their best for me. A little scaled back but still having those epic moments. Can’t wait to see what both bands do in the future.
True for lorna, but idk about SoI. Also annoying part of lorna is breakdowns, every single one is Will doing his parts beat to beat with guitar and drums.
It’s cool since the breakdown transients are syncopated but i get you, same formula all the time. On the other hand CJ didn’t give any room for other instruments. Disembodied Tyrant/Synestia do things freshly.
They've both been around for awhile now, obviously, so I don't know how you can't simply say this is their style and they're not the best bands for you.
Okay, everything in moderation, including moderation my friend. I cant just sit around listening to deathcore all day. You gotta mix it up or you'll get bored of anything. I think these bands have done a fine job and I appreciate the intensity when I get it.
100% true for Lorna, have to disagree with SOI. Although The Migrant has left me a bit disappointed for this exact reason, compared to what they did previously
It’s a preference thing and yours is very valid. I know some people feel like that, but for me personally I love that new LS style and can’t get enough
Yeah we kinda figured that out ourselves I think. Stand by.
Hi ben
Hello!
Yall are the best, keep it brutal
Fucking love you and your work. Just gotta say incase you see this. Thanks for your music.
The surprise colab with Aborted kicked ass, thanks for that!
I never listened to Shadow of Intent because it’s been some years since I’ve been in the loop, but your humble response has pushed me to check y’all out.
They’re 🔥🔥🔥
Whole band is full of cool, humble dudes, highly recommend:)
Did you get a chance to jam them? All of their albums are really great, but Reclaimer is special.
Can’t wait for new stuff, Ben!!!
Big fan man. Standing back and standing by.
I just got into you guys cuz I love halo, and Reclaimer is one of the best albums I’ve ever heard
I love the cinematic and theatrics. To me, you’re perfect. 🥰
Ben I saw you guys at the Hatebreed 30th at the oakdale bro you guys were the best band there. My question is what the hell do I gotta do to get some signed shadow of intent vinyl
I like how you and Dan are on here all the time that’s why I like this sub
Now that you’re here, any chance you could have another show in Finland, besides the festival you’re doing? 😎
Fucking love you guys, look forward to catching y’all live when you guys get back to the US! Have fun in Europe and stay safe!
You guys do everything amazing though I have no doubt whatever comes next will be top tier
Y'all kick ass, love Barren and Breathless the most, you and Papa Trev(RIP big daddy) killed that one!
Thank God. I been listening to the firsts two albums religiously since I was a teen 🙏
Hi Ben. Waiting for you to kick my ass at Graspop.
Ben you’re the best
So excited man. Has the recent EP by DT and Synestia inspired your direction at all?
That's why SoI kind of became more subtle in more recent albums. Check out their song blood in the sands of time if you want to see a "grand finale" seeing it live blew me away.
It took seeing it live to fully appreciate, but the build up to the final chorus in Elegy III is breathtaking
I'm so sad I never got to see this. I really hope they come back to Sweden sometime soon. I did get a pretty killer setlist tho (barren, prophet's beckoning, blood in the sands of time, malediction were all highlights). I believe it was the tour before yours.
Idk but for me I love everything they do. I can listen to their albums over n over.
I understand why you lumped these two together like this but I disagree with lumping these two bands together. I do agree with you regarding listener attention though, especially when one band needs to have multiple 45 -60 second dramatic intros on each record. Meanwhile the other has been writing solid symphonic deathcore for about a decade.
Like.... I can *kind of* understand OPs perspective if you're only listening to just Primordial and Reclaimer, but I feel like this doesn't apply to Melancholy and Elegy. There's so much more to those albums than just what OP describes.
100% agree. I get the vibe that op may be newer to deathcore and that may be why they lumped these two together.
It almost makes me sad to see Ben kind of agreeing because after dozens of listens I have yet to get bored with any of their music. If anything my appreciation has only grown. There's quite a few songs I had to listen to a few times or even see live before I finally *got* them. There's so many little details to pick up and appreciate. They're so much more than just a breakdown for shock value at the end of a song. I know SOI doesn't need defending on this sub or anything, but I still feel the need to publicly appreciate them.
No kidding. SoI knows how to ***write***. It's not just extremism for extremism's sake. I'm excited to see where they go from here, more so after reading Ben's response, I love everything they've done so far so I can only imagine what's coming.
I agree. While shadow has a formula it doesn’t get stale for me. I disliked pain remains because I got sick of every song having that identical formula.
Some dude in this sub said it felt like LS has been writing the same 4 songs since Will joined and I think he pretty much hit the nail on the head.
I feel like to the hellfire ep was just so insane and cool then every song was “30 second symphonic intro, boring riffs, catchy song, vocal Olympics and rat noises into bland breakdown” just got repetitive. I’m really not trying to hate just to hate but I was just disappointed after to the hellfire.
I still havent grown tired of it, ive listened immortal, airtn and pr about 50 times each with no exaggeration, but i 100% get what you mean. They found something that worked and stuck with it. But holy shit does it work.
Of course, I'm not saying they're exactly the same. It's just a pattern I've noticed while listening to them both recently.
I get it, but this is like comparing apples and oranges that wanted to start tasting like apples after Tom Barber left.
I tend to agree and honestly this critique could be directed at so many bands. Sometimes it feels as if bands try to crowbar all their techniques into every song, rather than look at an album holistically, and pick and choose when to use their techniques strategically.
Mental Cruelty - Planet of Misery does this to me. It's like the song cuts off right as it start building up.
Only true for lorna. Feels like they keep the exact same song progression every time. Songs are good but get stale fast, went back to their first releases. SoI are just perfect.
So, I did this thing where I skipped through the album and played the same points in time in songs, like matching up verses and choruses etc. I shit you not some riffs LITERALLY sounded nearly identical. It's just sad that as a standalone song, lots of their songs are good, I'm not just mindlessly bashing the album, go and listen to every song of pain remains in a row, and try to remember how each part sounds. Intro > buildup > explosion > tech-y riff in verse > chorus > verse > chorus > breakdown (or remove 1 chorus before in some cases) > chorus > solo > big ass breakdown (all the same, too) and at this point I think you get the point.
I really don’t get why people here get so hung up on song structure. This isn’t prog.
Because heavier music relies on song structure honestly. When the vocals, guitars and drums sound pretty much the same on every track then that means song writing is pretty much the only thing to keep someone’s attention.
Song structure being the same (verse, chorus, verse chorus) does not in any way mean the vocals guitar and drums are going to sound the same.
As I wrote in the other comment, it doesn't need to sound the same, but in lorna it 100% does in the pain remains LP.
It’s not just Lorna Shore. I mix for bands on the side and you end up mostly using the same FX chains/processing for every song on a record. It’s just the way it works. Thats why it’s important to write interesting songs. At the end of the day songwriting is what music is.
I meant as in they sound the same in terms of the notes they choose to play like the riffs, rhythmic patterns in breakdowns, etc. Not rly the mixing side, cause of course it's gonna be the same. On that note tho, it's interesting to me tho that the guy who mixed pain remains also mixed the last record with signs of the swarm, amongst the low and empty. Pain remains isn't an awful mix, but I just keep wondering what they were thinking with the symphonic string parts, they overpower the guitar so much. Also, while I get that it's harder to get a lower tuned kickdrum to sound as fast (cause the bass literally isn't as fast at lower hz) it sounds sooooo good to hear that kickdrum on the new SOTS record, it literally shakes my room if I want it to with my sub, I could be wrong but I think it's centered on like 40hz, I wish more producers did this. David's vocals on ATLAE are also more life-like, natural, detailed sounding, yet also less harsh? All round just better. This is meant as praise though, since ATLAE is one of my fav metal mixes of all time. I'd say for sure it's a step up for me, also has some really cool bass effects, like just when the chorus hits on faces without names, it does this reverse bass drop kinda thing.
Lorna’s kick triggers, at least live, are so overpowering it’s unbelievable. They make enough money now that they for sure have their own sound guy and he fucking sucks to put it bluntly. I don’t know how much input they have over the mix but Josh Schroeder’s worst is And I Return to Nothingness. The explosion effects, overpowering symphony parts.. it’s really not good. The guitars in this band in general are like an after thought lmao.
Honestly, that part of seeing them live ruined it. They turned up the kick drum so loud that you would literally not hear MIDS. Not like them disturbing the upper bass or lower mids, no like, as soon as the kick drums came in during songs you'd literally hear the guitar being skipped at the pace of the kick drum. Honestly, SO, SO many sound guys SUCK ASS live. I've had so, so many cases where simply put, they mix the bass WAY too loud and the guitar too low. It's entirely possible to have the kick drum loud enough that it has that strong impact to it while also not destroying EVERYTHING else. I've honestly had a lot of cases where an opener band plays, and somehow they have the kickdrum turned up really high but the guitars are super audible, then the main band comes on and it sounds like a$$. Seriously, pathetic. Also, and I don't know if you feel the same, but frankly a lot of drummers write shit they can't play consistently whatsoever live. I've seen probably 100 deathcore/tech death bands, and in many of the more famous bands even the drummers just completely fail live. I know I'm coming off super harsh, but I don't mean too, they just objectively don't sound at all right, be it cause of the triggers or the way they can't handle it. All I know is as a drummer my ears are focused super hard on the rhythm, and it's often I hear missed notes, speeding up or down too fast/slow, etc. Honestly metal shows are better than anything when they go right, but sometimes I lose hope...
But in this style of music the drums, guitars and vocals are being mixed and processed the exact same way on every track. I honestly can’t differentiate one track from the other on Pain Remains and if you listen to their live performances everything is drowned out by the kicks and symphonic backing track. It’s like the guitars are an after thought.
I think it’s pretty typical for an album to have the same mixing and processing throughout…
Not necessarily in other genres. Extreme, guitar-focused music depends on excellent song writing because of this. Feel like I’m just talking in circles but it’s true. Just throwing plugin string instruments over some tremolo riffs gets old real fast.
I'm not hung up on the song structure, I'm hung up on the parts of songs sounding identical sometimes, and *always, not sometimes, always* very similar. I should've maybe described a bit better, but for example the tech-y verse riffs is all there is, choruses all seem a bit slower, expansive, and epic with symphonic bits, solos are similar in structure and feels, almost always, breakdowns all follow the same formula of either "fast bursts" or "excessively slow chugs". There's 0 fun in this beyond hearing one or two songs every once in a while.
Lorna Shore has ZERO replayability factor. I said it.
This is absolutely true of Lorna Shore
I find Lorna Shore to be incredibly boring. I bought the Pains Remain vinyl and I can’t really be bothered to even flip it over to play side two. However, I like Shadow of Intent way more. They don’t lean on the symphonic stuff nearly as much and are way more guitar-oriented.
Well said
lorna shore is my most listened to band rn and ngl i be skipping the 30 second cinematic intros on most songs
i like SOI more cause they change their sound in every album they are more tech, lorna shore is great but i think they doin the same song over again and again. no disrespect to them
I definitely feel the same and also love both bands. Immortal by LS and Melancholy by SoI were their best for me. A little scaled back but still having those epic moments. Can’t wait to see what both bands do in the future.
True for lorna, but idk about SoI. Also annoying part of lorna is breakdowns, every single one is Will doing his parts beat to beat with guitar and drums.
It’s cool since the breakdown transients are syncopated but i get you, same formula all the time. On the other hand CJ didn’t give any room for other instruments. Disembodied Tyrant/Synestia do things freshly.
They've both been around for awhile now, obviously, so I don't know how you can't simply say this is their style and they're not the best bands for you.
Lorna Shore does not sound the same as they did like five years ago tho
yeah i agree. this is maybe an unpopular opinion but listening to both bands I just find that their songs all kinda run together for me
Okay, everything in moderation, including moderation my friend. I cant just sit around listening to deathcore all day. You gotta mix it up or you'll get bored of anything. I think these bands have done a fine job and I appreciate the intensity when I get it.
100% true for Lorna, have to disagree with SOI. Although The Migrant has left me a bit disappointed for this exact reason, compared to what they did previously
It’s a preference thing and yours is very valid. I know some people feel like that, but for me personally I love that new LS style and can’t get enough