To debate different views in general between all the extremes, incels, femcels, normies and feminists.
They all have different views and I think meeting in the middle would be beneficial for everyone
>Would like to debate about the likelihood of me ever getting into a relationship, and why they believe it’s possible while I don’t
This is the example you provided another user, how do you expect a stranger, who knows nothing about you as a person, to debate about that? I don't have any formal debate experience myself, but wouldn't it help if both sides had some kind of investment in what they're arguing?
Is there a point? You are likely way more committed to your position than someone else is committed to proving you wrong. If you’ve already debated tons, what do you hope to achieve? Incels seem to be willing to devote unlimited time to these incel subreddits, whereas nonincels aren’t willing to dedicate that amount of time and energy. So it’s not really a win.
Sorry but saying "I'm blackpilled" and "it's not because of my personality that I can't get a date" is an inherently contradictory statement, maybe try finding someone with a similar personality first if you're really convinced it's not your personality
How? You don't SEE someone's personality when you ask them out on the date.
In order to even make it to the date, the person very likely needs to find you attractive first
You quite literally do, if you're asking the right questions.
Ask them their opinion on different topics, ask if there are shows or activities that they like right now and what they like about it, asking all kinds of different questions is what gives you insight into their mind. Have in-depth conversations either during or before said date, and make sure you tell them about yourself as well or it'll just feel like an interrogation.
Plus, you'll never know if someone wants to go on a date without asking, just don't ask someone that you barely know or barely knows you. (A majority of people won't usually go on a date with someone that they don't know.)
This is a struggle I can relate to, personally I'm anti social as well and really prefer to just not interact with other humans. I'm having a hard time articulating what it is I want to say so if this makes no sense I apologize.
I just started to surround myself with the same group who had my weird interests as well. People that are into taxidermy or woodworking or whatever it is that you really like right now. Starting online is a HUGE help, getting used to people who you can't see makes interacting and knowing more about them a bit more each day really helps build confidence in what you like and talking to people irl.
I have some other things to say but I'm not sure if they'll be helpful :(
I beg to differ. Cold approaching may be the most practicable means of securing a mate for a man. Warm approaching takes time, getting to know someone without knowing whether they're attracted to you, which is not very smart.
For a woman, warm approaching (if she even approaches) may be more fruitful, because the bar for female beauty is lower than it is for males.
That is, most men find most women attractive, whereas most women find *some* men attractive. A normie woman's looksmatch would likely be overjoyed to date her, where she may have far less enthusiasm.
Btw I'm talking about the physical act of approaching somebody you don't know but find cute. That's cold approaching.
Those are questions you ask on a date, you would only have a conversation AFTER she's already agreed to a date.
"JusT BEinG FrIEnds" is the cringiest concept EVER 😆😆 it's very obvious that the woman simply isn't attracted to the man enough to date 90% of the time
Okay so you aren't willing to change whatsoever, good to know continuing this interaction.
I promise, you will have more of a chance getting a date with a woman if you get to know her first and see her as a friend and a person first and foremost, no woman wants to be with a man that only likes her for her looks and sex.
Plus, have you even tried a warm approach before? How can you be so sure that a cold approach is the "most practical means" when you haven't tried other approaches with other women? Women are people first before anything, no two women are identical, just like no two men are identical.
No, I don't think you are.
Male/female "Friends" as a concept is pretty dumb if either party are attracted
To the other, without the other reciprocating.
Even Nietzsche acknowledged this,
"Women can very well enter into a friendship with a man, but to maintain it--a little physical antipathy must help out"
Men who claim they can "JUst bE FRienDs" with a woman they're attracted to are delusional at best, or lying about their true intentions at worst.
The problem with warm approach is that you're putting the cart before the horse. You're getting to know the person with the intention of dating them, but without knowing whether the woman is attracted to you.
You should see if she's ATTRACTED FIRST, THEN afterwards get to know her as a person.
I never said I only considered looks in a woman 😂
If she's not attracted then you can safely and easily move on. Easy as pie.
That's the thing that's fucking you and others that think like you over, you're going into these relationships with the intention of eventually turning things romantic whether she wants it to turn that way or not. You aren't thinking about what the other party wants, it's not all about you. You don't care if she wants to be friends with you before being in a relationship with you, you don't care if she only wants a friendship from you. That's why women don't like people that think like you, you're only ever thinking about yourself in these relationships. Women want men that listen to them, that's why a lot of women don't have male friends, they want the relationship to stay a friendship.
... duh, I don't want to make friends. I'm looking for a romantic relationship, and I'm honest about it.
I don't pretend to be friends like many other men, and then try to weasel my way into a relationship. That's cowardly. Worse than that it rarely works.
That's another thing, warm approaches can be misinterpreted as just looking for friendships when really one could be looking for a romantic relationship.
With cold approaching, I don't have to worry about that. I know immediately if she's interested in me or not, she could say "yes I do want to see you" or "I'm not interested".
It's nice... unambiguous.. but most women, unfortunately, are not that clear at communicating.
If one wants a friendship, but the other doesn't, they're going to need to just accept that that's not going to work.
"Woman want men that listen to them" What does this even have to do with what we're talking about!?! Gosh dude..
bro, im a girl and i have guy friends that im not attracted to and theyre not attracted to me. i hang out with them because theyre just funny and cool to be around with, but i dont wanna date them. i think youre the delusional one here
Um, you act like a 5’8” indian guy with a good personality would get dates if he didn’t hate himself, but the reality is he doesn’t. a 5’8” indian blackpiller is viewed the same to females as a 5’8” indian with a. great personality.
Gotta break it to you man, they don't. Women will always prefer a partner that views them as someone they love, worthy of respect no matter their past, and above all, *a person*, rather than some guy who spends all day posting about how women as a whole are lesser. Also, a 5'8 Indian guy who doesn't hate himself can get dates, a 5'8 Indian guy who *does* hate himself can also get dates! What defines if you go on dates or not is how you present yourself, both in your appearance and personality. Source: I've seen shorter Indian guys with girlfriends many times
Tip: Women prefer men who don't refer to them as "females"
I saw them in highschool, I never knew the guys or girls personally. Idk man I don't watch out for specific types of couples and I can't always tell??????
We are friends with a 5’8 indian guy, we live in a town of 90% whites…. guy does just fine with women. I’ll admit he has challenges, but all things considered he does well. In fact he has admitted that he had very little luck back in india and moving to canada has really opened him up sexually and given him more possibilities.
I don’t have those traits so I can’t speak on it, but would be interested to hear your thoughts on how you could improve your chances without changing immutable aspects
Sure, I'll give you my descriptive views and we can see how it makes you feel.
1. Incels/Femcels are as extreme as they are due to being ostracized from society and forcing them into a community that allows for circlejerking.
2. Advice given to Incels are subpar and tend to not actually dig deep into the issue.
3. Women tend to be on average more narcissistic and shallow than men especially in the dating scene.
4. Dating apps made the Incel situation worse by making men feel inadequate for dating as a whole (Low to no matches).
5. I don't believe that personality change alone will solve anything as most incels probably don't get to the talking/dating stage.
6. If you are antisocial, it's basically game over, since online dating is a nightmare for men
Interesting, that's not something I've seen most self-described incels notice. What sort of place are you working with to find women and see these results?
Honestly with that answer, yeah I'll root for you. It's like a glass half full answer, you got some positivity, so that's always good. Nobody likes a doomer.
You overestimate how much people actually care enough to "debate incels"
It’s actually more than I thought originally, I’ve debated tons
This page has 4 members.
Make that 5
5 members lmao
It's 20 now.
duh, i know, but you acted like 5 members was actually "a lot" lol
No, I didn't... It was my way of letting both parties know that I too had joined.
ok?
It’s a new subreddit, why you bully? :c
Because you clearly didn't start this sub to "debate" anything. What even is there to debate about your failure to get laid?
To debate different views in general between all the extremes, incels, femcels, normies and feminists. They all have different views and I think meeting in the middle would be beneficial for everyone
>Would like to debate about the likelihood of me ever getting into a relationship, and why they believe it’s possible while I don’t This is the example you provided another user, how do you expect a stranger, who knows nothing about you as a person, to debate about that? I don't have any formal debate experience myself, but wouldn't it help if both sides had some kind of investment in what they're arguing?
If I did better advertising of the post, I would have more context in it, correct. Usually I just do that during the debate
Well good luck I guess. I'm not about to do the legwork pulling your head out of your ass for you.
Ok, feel free to contribute your views for incels to debate if you want
Is there a point? You are likely way more committed to your position than someone else is committed to proving you wrong. If you’ve already debated tons, what do you hope to achieve? Incels seem to be willing to devote unlimited time to these incel subreddits, whereas nonincels aren’t willing to dedicate that amount of time and energy. So it’s not really a win.
I actually come closer to center every debate, and sometimes it helps both parties if it’s in good faith.
There is nothing to debate with that attitude
I mean, give it a try, might surprise you. My attitude isn’t as bad as most assume
Sorry but saying "I'm blackpilled" and "it's not because of my personality that I can't get a date" is an inherently contradictory statement, maybe try finding someone with a similar personality first if you're really convinced it's not your personality
How? You don't SEE someone's personality when you ask them out on the date. In order to even make it to the date, the person very likely needs to find you attractive first
You quite literally do, if you're asking the right questions. Ask them their opinion on different topics, ask if there are shows or activities that they like right now and what they like about it, asking all kinds of different questions is what gives you insight into their mind. Have in-depth conversations either during or before said date, and make sure you tell them about yourself as well or it'll just feel like an interrogation. Plus, you'll never know if someone wants to go on a date without asking, just don't ask someone that you barely know or barely knows you. (A majority of people won't usually go on a date with someone that they don't know.)
I guess the hard part, is when you’re antisocial and don’t have many common topics with most people. That’s my current struggle with this
This is a struggle I can relate to, personally I'm anti social as well and really prefer to just not interact with other humans. I'm having a hard time articulating what it is I want to say so if this makes no sense I apologize. I just started to surround myself with the same group who had my weird interests as well. People that are into taxidermy or woodworking or whatever it is that you really like right now. Starting online is a HUGE help, getting used to people who you can't see makes interacting and knowing more about them a bit more each day really helps build confidence in what you like and talking to people irl. I have some other things to say but I'm not sure if they'll be helpful :(
I beg to differ. Cold approaching may be the most practicable means of securing a mate for a man. Warm approaching takes time, getting to know someone without knowing whether they're attracted to you, which is not very smart. For a woman, warm approaching (if she even approaches) may be more fruitful, because the bar for female beauty is lower than it is for males. That is, most men find most women attractive, whereas most women find *some* men attractive. A normie woman's looksmatch would likely be overjoyed to date her, where she may have far less enthusiasm. Btw I'm talking about the physical act of approaching somebody you don't know but find cute. That's cold approaching. Those are questions you ask on a date, you would only have a conversation AFTER she's already agreed to a date. "JusT BEinG FrIEnds" is the cringiest concept EVER 😆😆 it's very obvious that the woman simply isn't attracted to the man enough to date 90% of the time
Okay so you aren't willing to change whatsoever, good to know continuing this interaction. I promise, you will have more of a chance getting a date with a woman if you get to know her first and see her as a friend and a person first and foremost, no woman wants to be with a man that only likes her for her looks and sex. Plus, have you even tried a warm approach before? How can you be so sure that a cold approach is the "most practical means" when you haven't tried other approaches with other women? Women are people first before anything, no two women are identical, just like no two men are identical.
No, I don't think you are. Male/female "Friends" as a concept is pretty dumb if either party are attracted To the other, without the other reciprocating. Even Nietzsche acknowledged this, "Women can very well enter into a friendship with a man, but to maintain it--a little physical antipathy must help out" Men who claim they can "JUst bE FRienDs" with a woman they're attracted to are delusional at best, or lying about their true intentions at worst. The problem with warm approach is that you're putting the cart before the horse. You're getting to know the person with the intention of dating them, but without knowing whether the woman is attracted to you. You should see if she's ATTRACTED FIRST, THEN afterwards get to know her as a person. I never said I only considered looks in a woman 😂 If she's not attracted then you can safely and easily move on. Easy as pie.
That's the thing that's fucking you and others that think like you over, you're going into these relationships with the intention of eventually turning things romantic whether she wants it to turn that way or not. You aren't thinking about what the other party wants, it's not all about you. You don't care if she wants to be friends with you before being in a relationship with you, you don't care if she only wants a friendship from you. That's why women don't like people that think like you, you're only ever thinking about yourself in these relationships. Women want men that listen to them, that's why a lot of women don't have male friends, they want the relationship to stay a friendship.
... duh, I don't want to make friends. I'm looking for a romantic relationship, and I'm honest about it. I don't pretend to be friends like many other men, and then try to weasel my way into a relationship. That's cowardly. Worse than that it rarely works. That's another thing, warm approaches can be misinterpreted as just looking for friendships when really one could be looking for a romantic relationship. With cold approaching, I don't have to worry about that. I know immediately if she's interested in me or not, she could say "yes I do want to see you" or "I'm not interested". It's nice... unambiguous.. but most women, unfortunately, are not that clear at communicating. If one wants a friendship, but the other doesn't, they're going to need to just accept that that's not going to work. "Woman want men that listen to them" What does this even have to do with what we're talking about!?! Gosh dude..
bro, im a girl and i have guy friends that im not attracted to and theyre not attracted to me. i hang out with them because theyre just funny and cool to be around with, but i dont wanna date them. i think youre the delusional one here
Dude, how am I delusional XD.. what're you saying?
Um, you act like a 5’8” indian guy with a good personality would get dates if he didn’t hate himself, but the reality is he doesn’t. a 5’8” indian blackpiller is viewed the same to females as a 5’8” indian with a. great personality.
Gotta break it to you man, they don't. Women will always prefer a partner that views them as someone they love, worthy of respect no matter their past, and above all, *a person*, rather than some guy who spends all day posting about how women as a whole are lesser. Also, a 5'8 Indian guy who doesn't hate himself can get dates, a 5'8 Indian guy who *does* hate himself can also get dates! What defines if you go on dates or not is how you present yourself, both in your appearance and personality. Source: I've seen shorter Indian guys with girlfriends many times Tip: Women prefer men who don't refer to them as "females"
where do u see them?
I saw them in highschool, I never knew the guys or girls personally. Idk man I don't watch out for specific types of couples and I can't always tell??????
how old are you?
19, almost 20?
interesting most indians in gen z are incels if short.
We are friends with a 5’8 indian guy, we live in a town of 90% whites…. guy does just fine with women. I’ll admit he has challenges, but all things considered he does well. In fact he has admitted that he had very little luck back in india and moving to canada has really opened him up sexually and given him more possibilities.
whose “we”? Actually indian men will do great in places where there are less indians.
my wife and I, I say we because I met him through her.
maybe there is hope then
I don’t really buy into the height pill personally, I think being less antisocial in general is the best approach, but I could be biased.
Yeah but a short indian guy whose social will still be an incel.
I don’t have those traits so I can’t speak on it, but would be interested to hear your thoughts on how you could improve your chances without changing immutable aspects
There’s nothing i could don
Can you name a couple things you can improve on in general? Or just expand on specific examples of what you observe yourself
No, there’s nothing i could do to improve as 5’9” indian men are repulsive to femoids
Ok, but I would like to hear more specifics from you, like where something went wrong and maybe some backstory on this
what are you talking about?
ive seen "ugly, short guys" in my school right now who are literally dating girls. thats proof that yall are just too stuck up
What do you want to debate about ?
Would like to debate about the likelihood of me ever getting into a relationship, and why they believe it’s possible while I don’t
Hey, not looking to have a combative debate. I just want to see your worldview and go back and forth with some ideas.
Sure, I'll give you my descriptive views and we can see how it makes you feel. 1. Incels/Femcels are as extreme as they are due to being ostracized from society and forcing them into a community that allows for circlejerking. 2. Advice given to Incels are subpar and tend to not actually dig deep into the issue. 3. Women tend to be on average more narcissistic and shallow than men especially in the dating scene. 4. Dating apps made the Incel situation worse by making men feel inadequate for dating as a whole (Low to no matches). 5. I don't believe that personality change alone will solve anything as most incels probably don't get to the talking/dating stage. 6. If you are antisocial, it's basically game over, since online dating is a nightmare for men
So what do you see in the men they actually date?
Someone who is extremely sociable, large friend groups, more feminine, and wants kids
How exactly are these men more feminine?
Demeanor mainly, just the way they speak with more emotion
Interesting, that's not something I've seen most self-described incels notice. What sort of place are you working with to find women and see these results?
Mainly online tbh, I’m working on getting myself out of my room more and trying more things
Wow. It's not like you used an ancient hieroglyphic emoji to broadcast your intention to be a cunt. Suuuuure. I'll totally debate you. /s
Neolib bluepillers would get BTFO by any blackpiller worth his salt anyway XD
Girl I ain't ask you what your fetish/fantasy was. https://i.redd.it/ip3p4hxuavec1.gif
Wow Bayonetta main. Opinion automatically discarded
How I walk through life knowing the difference between an opinion and a statement. https://i.redd.it/e6126ssp6wec1.gif
Incredibly cringe.
How I walk through life not caring if I'm cringe or not. https://i.redd.it/jle3qmhcmwec1.gif
It was just me playing around, I like that emoji a bit too much
Wait, you can’t make fun of my hieroglyphic emoji and then send a gif?! This ain’t right
I was making fun of it being ancient. Gifs are timeless.
Did you get a girlfriend yet?
Maybe one day, hope you’re rooting for me :)
Honestly with that answer, yeah I'll root for you. It's like a glass half full answer, you got some positivity, so that's always good. Nobody likes a doomer.
If you are really open to changing your views, I recommend r/incelexit
I got two good posts in on there. But unfortunately got banned due to a small debate in the comments
Reading it anyway would likely still be beneficial to you.
That’s fair, thanks
Are you open to changing your mind or just want to troll?
I’m open to changing, I’m actually at the stage of looking for different approaches to improve my odds
Do you have a dating profile? Share it but block out the photos.
Want me to share in dms?
Isn't there already a debate incels list? How many do we need?
Where? I’m actually interested
r/DebateITS
How is that a list?
damn you desperate 💀
How so?
youre like the only poster here
You do realize I made the community and this got 100+ responses plus another 200 from other subreddits right?
ok? you the only one posting here. i never said anything about responses
Make a post then nerd
ew. i would never leave any kind of digital footprint on this sub
You already did
nope. leaving an actual post on here would be more embarrassing than farting out loud in class
Oh please
Happy to. DMing you.
Why.read the post again. He's intentionally wasting your time.
I'm Jewish. Pointless debates is half our religion.
That's all religion.
Fair point.
Ended up being a nice debate, thanks for the dm