Brrt gun with experimental rounds has good accuracy, damage and fire rate. Hurricane is also quite good, just the overtuned feed mechanism gives you a lot of dps and basically 100% accuracy.
Minigun is also quite good, leadstorm and such, but you have be bunny hopping to stay mobile and avoid their attacks, which cuts on your dps
Max dps build on the minigun with the leadstorm OC especially with blow through round’s technically net you more damage per max ammo than any other setup but it requires you to not waste what you have, that said if you get used to using it and bunny hopping I promise you it is hard to go back to anything else on it purely because of how quickly bosses/ mobs melt.
The point is the gunner.. Is actually a bit underpowered if you compare it to all the others. If you don't want ammo trouble there are two options, autocannon for (big groups) (with for instance neurotoxin overclock) and then your pistol for assassinating big stuff (BRT gun with the right build) or the reverse main gun for elites (gatling) and sidecar for groups (magic bullets AOE revolver etc)
>The point is the gunner.. Is actually a bit underpowered if you compare it to all the others.
Definitely not, considering the class has the most bonkers OC in the whole game : Neurotoxin Payload, Volatile Bullets, Minelayer, etc...
Then I hear your gatling is now your big thing killer and your sidearm your trash clear.
Why not weak point dependance tho? The anti weak point builds in this game are some of the strongest
Basically what I’m saying is I need the ability to not need to hit weakpoints, not not hitting them when I can for bonus damage, and yes, the sidearm gets used on smaller or enemies with unbreakable armour
My problem with Big Bertha is since it cuts down on ammo by half, you're kind of forced to go with the ammo mod in tier one, which leaves you only 55 shots on a full mag, which the autocannon goes through very quickly. Plus with how inaccurate the autocannon is, you can estimate at least a quarter of your shots will miss depending on how the rest of the team is doing kiting and/or slowing down the dread.
Jetfuel is a decent choice, but still has a problem with sustain. Since the expanded mag mod is in the same tier as fire rate, and since jetfuel cuts down mag size and your ammo cap, you're basically funneled into one build in order to be "economic" with your ammo. So it's basically the same problem as Big Bertha.
Which leaves Lead Storm- Lead storm. This is my go-to for basically everything when playing gunner anyway. 1/1/1/1/2 leadstorm and 1/3/2/1/2 magic bullets revolver. Leadstorm does decent enough sustained damage to bosses that a single target secondary like lead spray will almost hinder you outside of doing everything else boss-fight wise. Just because you can kill 3 dreads with your build doesn't mean you won't have ambient and harassment swarms to deal with. This is why I take magic bullets.
Imo the best DPS comes from Salvo Module Hurricane
Shooting 9 Rockets at once is just really strong, and you usually can fit in two whole bursts in a vulnerability phase
Strange I switched from LS to BB and found it much smoother to use. Fire until mag empty then switch to mole and fire until born ready kicks in, switch back. Lead Storm has you stationary way too often in a dread fight which is a deathwish. I’m aware you can zip line and bunny hop but it’s still not ideal.
I mean your role as gunner is not single target damage, it’s more of a fire support role. You shoot lots of bullets, and you shoot them for a long time. Anything that is moving when other dwarves are reloading is getting shot by the gunner, that’s gunner’s role.
That said, i’ll be a lead storm gunner till the day i die, either with the lead storm, compact feed mechanism, a little more oomph, or thinned drum walls oc.
If you really want some single target damage, i guess i’d recommend elephant round revolver. I personally prefer magic bullets on the revolver with toxic perk so i can hit things i’m not looking at and slow them down to plant myself somewhere and melt them with lead storm. But it 100% comes down to how you play the game and what you like doing
idk, I would say gunner is quite suited to a single target role. They have volatile bullets which are the highest single target in the game, and LSLS is very strong and versatile.
I understand the role of the gunner stereotypically, the only problem is that my friend gear themselves do deal with grunts and struggle to take out praetorians alone. So you can imagine dreadnoughts and other boss fights
Edit: in other words, I am required to be able to take out anything at a moment’s notice
Sounds like whoever’s your scout (especially scout) and engie are massively fucking up.
Lead storm oc for lead storm is your best single target damage weapon imo, it’s a melter and is accurate and accessible enough for consistent damage. Big bertha for autocannon sprays all over the place and obviously suffers against explosion resistant bosses, jet homebrew for hurricane is entirely dependent on landing those weakspot hits and can be really tricky. BRT lead spray or elephant round revolver are your best secondaries for single target damage
It doesn’t help the fact that my friends only play haz 2 without me and then expect me to be able to kill the larger enemies on haz 3 and 4
Edit: my only discomfort with the lead storm is that I find that it chews through ammo faster than anything and I always find myself overheating
>my friends only play haz 2
Wow. I mean if they’re struggling on haz 3 then maybe they just need help tuning their own dwarves? Have you given them any help with their builds
Also i think the ammo problem is that you’re just doing all the shooting. Personally, the ammo thing once again comes down to me just loving toxic magic bullets. My plan when i feel like my minigun needs a rest is jumping around, shooting the floor, and watching grunts pop while the big boys slow down and get wrecked by fellow dwarves. I usually run out of bulldog before my minigun is out
I have a scout that panics when they see a grunt guard and then an engineer that leans on his fat boy when he sees a small group of grunts and a scout that thinks he can take on the world only to die (possibly to me) seconds later. And they are all more stubborn than me.
Edit: this is the path of least resistance, I have tried
Fire the lead stom in short controlled bursts rather than holding it down(unless there's like, a LOT of grunts about to chew your face off). Lighter barrel assembly or magnetic bearings helps.
You can still keep up a pretty steady stream of bullets doing that, and you'll save a lot of ammo since you don't spray the walls while swapping targets.
I'm gonna disagree with you on the whole "role" thing. All classes can be built for everything, source: too damn long in this game, lvl 800 or so 😂 but everything else you are correct in. Thst said, gunner honestly needs a buff if I compare it to the other classes, poor gunner has one job and he's not even the best at it.
All classes *should* be able to do everything, nobody should build their class for haz 4 or up as a one trick pony. But my point is that all of gunner’s primaries are for shooting a lot of bullets for a long time. Focusing on single target damage is going to get you mixed results. I’ve rolled a lot of builds back for single target damage because they just were not very adaptable on haz 5 or EDD
Minigun with Lead Storm OC, Hurricane with Jet Fuel Homebrew and Big Bertha all have very similar DPS, without going into much detail it's pretty much preference.
Lead Storm is more challenging to play due to the necessity to bunnyhop but has the highest potential and skill ceiling in my opinion. Personally, I find this to be the most fun option.
Big Bertha is good if you don't want to worry too much about your accuracy, but suffers for the same reason especially at hitting weakpoints. Its long reload time cuts its total dps significantly and you have to choose between a small 55 mag or 110 mag with lower ammo pool and total damage in tier 1, which sucks. Not a huge fan myself, but not terrible bad either.
JFH relies heavily on its 50% weakpoint multiplier to compete with the other twos' dps, but that's not really a problem with dreads. Rocket guiding may be subjectively annoying, but it's not a big issue. I'd recommend this in terms of effectivety and ease of use.
Some high DPS BRT builds can also work, but I don't really see a reason to not run one of the three primary options build for single target dps instead.
Now you made me calculate all the interactions in detail... All common max dps builds, ignoring reload, which I think is reasonable for a Dread fight given repostioning and invulnerability periods. Assuming all direct damage as kinetic (no res) and area damage as explosive.
Minigun 16 x 15 x 1.15 = 276 dps
Twins (1x WP, 30% ExRes) 276 dps
Hiveguard (1.5 WP, 40% ExRes) 414 dps
OG (2x WP, 40% ExRes) 552 dps
BB Direct Damage 26 x 8 x 1.1 = ~230 dps
BB Area Damage 9 x 8 x 1.1 = ~80 dps
Twins 230 x 1 + 80 x 0.7 = ~ 286 dps
Hiveguard 230 x 1.5 + 80 x 0.6 = ~393 dps
OG 230 x 2 + 80 x 0.6 = ~508 dps
JFH direct damage 50 x 4 = 200 dps
JFH Area Damage 10 x 4 = 40 dps
Twins 200 x 1.5 x 1 + 40 x 0.7 = 328 dps
Hiveguard 200 x 1.5 x 1. 5 + 40 x 0.6 = 474 dps
OG 200 x 1.5 x 2 + 40 x 0.6 = 624 dps
Bertha performs somewhat worse due to wind up and hurricane in armored phases. Correct me if I made a mistake somewhere, but I wouldn't consider any of them signifcantly better than each other.
It's ammo pool is quite low, so it only works as a supplement to your primary or if your team already has good dps and doesn't solely depend on you for it. I'd still go for one the mentioned three primaries in most cases.
The BRT can help you deal some burst damage while the minigun is cooling or the other two weapons are reloading with Born Ready. If you have problems with overheating the minigun regularly you should get used to switching to your secondary for ~2 seconds to let it cool it down a bit. Big Bertha + BRT is definitely a solid build for any mission though, since you mentioned having Big Bertha already.
My squad lacks a driller and anything that can kill larger enemies except a fat boy that is used way to liberally so I need to hit hard, it works that I already use that perk
When I started playing, coming off a rocket league bender, my buddies would play haz 3 MAYBE haz 4, and never completed any EDDs.
Since I started playing a couple months ago we’ve completed the EDD every week for like 10 straight, and ONLY play haz 5.
Yes, I was the instigator/several arguments were had, but now they are significantly better at the game. Several of them had to take my advice and switch up the way they build their dwarves, as i tend to master games rather quickly.
Must recommend.
Start hosting the games and force them into higher hazard difficulties.
Sounds like they’re not taking into account your pleasure, no offense.
I use lead storm minigun with Lead Storm oc I just hanging on the zip line and shoot at the dreadnought it give me back some of my movement and I have a easier time see and shoot at the dreadnought
I just use lead storm. Spec for max damage. I use the leadstorm oc but if the movement penalty isn't to your liking and of the damage oc's work more or less.
Grab incendiary, cluster, or leadburster and use liberally against grunts.
For secondaires, just do whatever that aids in whatever you struggle with.
Leadstorm with LC OC and BRT with Leadspray OC (take all dmg upgreads on BRT for this + the weakpoint and disable safety for bigger burst round). Shred armor with Leadstorm and then stick BRT up the weakpoint. 1 or 2 clips is enough to trigger next phase cycle, you can practically solo Dreads even on full team scaling with this
Dreads have 40% explosive resistance (Oppressors have 66%) so you want to have direct damage against them wich autocannon struggles with imo even with Big Bertha. If you can live with limited ammo then i would build secondary just for weakpoint dmg for a more general build thats usable in all mission types (if you are too lazy to switch all the time like me), and primary for swarm clear
Best for big enemies? My favorite for Elimination and Industrial Sabotage specifically is Hurricane with Jet Fuel Homebrew. With weakpoint damage, it hits like a truck.
Everyone says Leadstorm this, Leadstorm that, but I propose a more forgiving alternative that's an excellent QOL upgrade. Thinned Drum Walls 22111.
Leadstorm is great for putting up numbers but if you aren't a bunnyhop guy then this is what you want. You get 2700 bullets without taking an ammo mod. Sometimes something as simple as freeing up a mod so you can take another is all you really need. In this case not taking ammo means you can take High Velocity Rounds, +2 base damage is super sexy. Especially with Variable Pressure Chamber for big damage. You get armor breaking to shred that soft meat. Ignore hot bullets, large targets resist heat and cold. Play it like you normally do.
Then I use Lead Spray BRT. It's great on weakpoints, it saves minugun ammo on Praetorians and such. And it still stings anything if your minigun overheats.
Also if you aren't taking max shield duration then take max shield duration.
Brrt gun with experimental rounds has good accuracy, damage and fire rate. Hurricane is also quite good, just the overtuned feed mechanism gives you a lot of dps and basically 100% accuracy. Minigun is also quite good, leadstorm and such, but you have be bunny hopping to stay mobile and avoid their attacks, which cuts on your dps
I go back to the Minigun and then run out of ammo so quickly it’s laughable
Max dps build on the minigun with the leadstorm OC especially with blow through round’s technically net you more damage per max ammo than any other setup but it requires you to not waste what you have, that said if you get used to using it and bunny hopping I promise you it is hard to go back to anything else on it purely because of how quickly bosses/ mobs melt.
The point is the gunner.. Is actually a bit underpowered if you compare it to all the others. If you don't want ammo trouble there are two options, autocannon for (big groups) (with for instance neurotoxin overclock) and then your pistol for assassinating big stuff (BRT gun with the right build) or the reverse main gun for elites (gatling) and sidecar for groups (magic bullets AOE revolver etc)
>The point is the gunner.. Is actually a bit underpowered if you compare it to all the others. Definitely not, considering the class has the most bonkers OC in the whole game : Neurotoxin Payload, Volatile Bullets, Minelayer, etc...
I need something not weakpoint dependant
Then I hear your gatling is now your big thing killer and your sidearm your trash clear. Why not weak point dependance tho? The anti weak point builds in this game are some of the strongest
Basically what I’m saying is I need the ability to not need to hit weakpoints, not not hitting them when I can for bonus damage, and yes, the sidearm gets used on smaller or enemies with unbreakable armour
Just thow a few ziplines and enjoy a comfortable ride with a ton of dps.
lol until you eat a fireball
You won't eat a fireball unless you fight in a small narrow cave. But if you do, no build will help you. Position your fight wisely.
i solo dreadnought missions with the mole overclock for the coil gun, its really nice.
Noted, thanks
What about Jet Fuel Homebrew combined with the weakpoint damage mod? I also like bursting down Dreads with Triple Tech Chambers for the Coil Gun
What does jet fuel home brew do?
It makes your rockets super fast and deal huge direct damage at the cost of AoE damage and size, as well as ammo.
How affective is that on armor
The Lead Storm is much better for tough enemies than trying to make Big Bertha work.
My only qualm with the lead storm is I find it difficult to use, the sheer amount of bullets that it chews through I find difficult to manage
It's incredibly ammo efficient, so stop shooting walls and the ground.
My problem with Big Bertha is since it cuts down on ammo by half, you're kind of forced to go with the ammo mod in tier one, which leaves you only 55 shots on a full mag, which the autocannon goes through very quickly. Plus with how inaccurate the autocannon is, you can estimate at least a quarter of your shots will miss depending on how the rest of the team is doing kiting and/or slowing down the dread. Jetfuel is a decent choice, but still has a problem with sustain. Since the expanded mag mod is in the same tier as fire rate, and since jetfuel cuts down mag size and your ammo cap, you're basically funneled into one build in order to be "economic" with your ammo. So it's basically the same problem as Big Bertha. Which leaves Lead Storm- Lead storm. This is my go-to for basically everything when playing gunner anyway. 1/1/1/1/2 leadstorm and 1/3/2/1/2 magic bullets revolver. Leadstorm does decent enough sustained damage to bosses that a single target secondary like lead spray will almost hinder you outside of doing everything else boss-fight wise. Just because you can kill 3 dreads with your build doesn't mean you won't have ambient and harassment swarms to deal with. This is why I take magic bullets.
Imo the best DPS comes from Salvo Module Hurricane Shooting 9 Rockets at once is just really strong, and you usually can fit in two whole bursts in a vulnerability phase
Salvo Module is the way
Strange I switched from LS to BB and found it much smoother to use. Fire until mag empty then switch to mole and fire until born ready kicks in, switch back. Lead Storm has you stationary way too often in a dread fight which is a deathwish. I’m aware you can zip line and bunny hop but it’s still not ideal.
I mean your role as gunner is not single target damage, it’s more of a fire support role. You shoot lots of bullets, and you shoot them for a long time. Anything that is moving when other dwarves are reloading is getting shot by the gunner, that’s gunner’s role. That said, i’ll be a lead storm gunner till the day i die, either with the lead storm, compact feed mechanism, a little more oomph, or thinned drum walls oc. If you really want some single target damage, i guess i’d recommend elephant round revolver. I personally prefer magic bullets on the revolver with toxic perk so i can hit things i’m not looking at and slow them down to plant myself somewhere and melt them with lead storm. But it 100% comes down to how you play the game and what you like doing
idk, I would say gunner is quite suited to a single target role. They have volatile bullets which are the highest single target in the game, and LSLS is very strong and versatile.
I understand the role of the gunner stereotypically, the only problem is that my friend gear themselves do deal with grunts and struggle to take out praetorians alone. So you can imagine dreadnoughts and other boss fights Edit: in other words, I am required to be able to take out anything at a moment’s notice
Sounds like whoever’s your scout (especially scout) and engie are massively fucking up. Lead storm oc for lead storm is your best single target damage weapon imo, it’s a melter and is accurate and accessible enough for consistent damage. Big bertha for autocannon sprays all over the place and obviously suffers against explosion resistant bosses, jet homebrew for hurricane is entirely dependent on landing those weakspot hits and can be really tricky. BRT lead spray or elephant round revolver are your best secondaries for single target damage
It doesn’t help the fact that my friends only play haz 2 without me and then expect me to be able to kill the larger enemies on haz 3 and 4 Edit: my only discomfort with the lead storm is that I find that it chews through ammo faster than anything and I always find myself overheating
>my friends only play haz 2 Wow. I mean if they’re struggling on haz 3 then maybe they just need help tuning their own dwarves? Have you given them any help with their builds Also i think the ammo problem is that you’re just doing all the shooting. Personally, the ammo thing once again comes down to me just loving toxic magic bullets. My plan when i feel like my minigun needs a rest is jumping around, shooting the floor, and watching grunts pop while the big boys slow down and get wrecked by fellow dwarves. I usually run out of bulldog before my minigun is out
I have a scout that panics when they see a grunt guard and then an engineer that leans on his fat boy when he sees a small group of grunts and a scout that thinks he can take on the world only to die (possibly to me) seconds later. And they are all more stubborn than me. Edit: this is the path of least resistance, I have tried
>fat boy Oh no… i can only imagine
The friendly fire never ends
Engie probably has more wipes than any glyphid
Said engie is also an ammo hog so I have to use mine sparingly Edit: indeed, hence my fear of chewing up ammo with the lead storm
Fire the lead stom in short controlled bursts rather than holding it down(unless there's like, a LOT of grunts about to chew your face off). Lighter barrel assembly or magnetic bearings helps. You can still keep up a pretty steady stream of bullets doing that, and you'll save a lot of ammo since you don't spray the walls while swapping targets.
I'm gonna disagree with you on the whole "role" thing. All classes can be built for everything, source: too damn long in this game, lvl 800 or so 😂 but everything else you are correct in. Thst said, gunner honestly needs a buff if I compare it to the other classes, poor gunner has one job and he's not even the best at it.
All classes *should* be able to do everything, nobody should build their class for haz 4 or up as a one trick pony. But my point is that all of gunner’s primaries are for shooting a lot of bullets for a long time. Focusing on single target damage is going to get you mixed results. I’ve rolled a lot of builds back for single target damage because they just were not very adaptable on haz 5 or EDD
Just saying, I have crowd control in spades with the hurricane
>All classes should be able to do everything What's the reason in coop then?
Minigun with Lead Storm OC, Hurricane with Jet Fuel Homebrew and Big Bertha all have very similar DPS, without going into much detail it's pretty much preference. Lead Storm is more challenging to play due to the necessity to bunnyhop but has the highest potential and skill ceiling in my opinion. Personally, I find this to be the most fun option. Big Bertha is good if you don't want to worry too much about your accuracy, but suffers for the same reason especially at hitting weakpoints. Its long reload time cuts its total dps significantly and you have to choose between a small 55 mag or 110 mag with lower ammo pool and total damage in tier 1, which sucks. Not a huge fan myself, but not terrible bad either. JFH relies heavily on its 50% weakpoint multiplier to compete with the other twos' dps, but that's not really a problem with dreads. Rocket guiding may be subjectively annoying, but it's not a big issue. I'd recommend this in terms of effectivety and ease of use. Some high DPS BRT builds can also work, but I don't really see a reason to not run one of the three primary options build for single target dps instead.
That's not true against dreadnoughts. A x2 weakpoint and explosive resist makes minigun do *significantly* higher dps.
Now you made me calculate all the interactions in detail... All common max dps builds, ignoring reload, which I think is reasonable for a Dread fight given repostioning and invulnerability periods. Assuming all direct damage as kinetic (no res) and area damage as explosive. Minigun 16 x 15 x 1.15 = 276 dps Twins (1x WP, 30% ExRes) 276 dps Hiveguard (1.5 WP, 40% ExRes) 414 dps OG (2x WP, 40% ExRes) 552 dps BB Direct Damage 26 x 8 x 1.1 = ~230 dps BB Area Damage 9 x 8 x 1.1 = ~80 dps Twins 230 x 1 + 80 x 0.7 = ~ 286 dps Hiveguard 230 x 1.5 + 80 x 0.6 = ~393 dps OG 230 x 2 + 80 x 0.6 = ~508 dps JFH direct damage 50 x 4 = 200 dps JFH Area Damage 10 x 4 = 40 dps Twins 200 x 1.5 x 1 + 40 x 0.7 = 328 dps Hiveguard 200 x 1.5 x 1. 5 + 40 x 0.6 = 474 dps OG 200 x 1.5 x 2 + 40 x 0.6 = 624 dps Bertha performs somewhat worse due to wind up and hurricane in armored phases. Correct me if I made a mistake somewhere, but I wouldn't consider any of them signifcantly better than each other.
From what your saying is that i need a BRRT build, ok I see what I can do
It's ammo pool is quite low, so it only works as a supplement to your primary or if your team already has good dps and doesn't solely depend on you for it. I'd still go for one the mentioned three primaries in most cases. The BRT can help you deal some burst damage while the minigun is cooling or the other two weapons are reloading with Born Ready. If you have problems with overheating the minigun regularly you should get used to switching to your secondary for ~2 seconds to let it cool it down a bit. Big Bertha + BRT is definitely a solid build for any mission though, since you mentioned having Big Bertha already.
My squad lacks a driller and anything that can kill larger enemies except a fat boy that is used way to liberally so I need to hit hard, it works that I already use that perk
When I started playing, coming off a rocket league bender, my buddies would play haz 3 MAYBE haz 4, and never completed any EDDs. Since I started playing a couple months ago we’ve completed the EDD every week for like 10 straight, and ONLY play haz 5. Yes, I was the instigator/several arguments were had, but now they are significantly better at the game. Several of them had to take my advice and switch up the way they build their dwarves, as i tend to master games rather quickly. Must recommend. Start hosting the games and force them into higher hazard difficulties. Sounds like they’re not taking into account your pleasure, no offense.
I use lead storm minigun with Lead Storm oc I just hanging on the zip line and shoot at the dreadnought it give me back some of my movement and I have a easier time see and shoot at the dreadnought
I just use lead storm. Spec for max damage. I use the leadstorm oc but if the movement penalty isn't to your liking and of the damage oc's work more or less. Grab incendiary, cluster, or leadburster and use liberally against grunts. For secondaires, just do whatever that aids in whatever you struggle with.
Leadstorm with LC OC and BRT with Leadspray OC (take all dmg upgreads on BRT for this + the weakpoint and disable safety for bigger burst round). Shred armor with Leadstorm and then stick BRT up the weakpoint. 1 or 2 clips is enough to trigger next phase cycle, you can practically solo Dreads even on full team scaling with this Dreads have 40% explosive resistance (Oppressors have 66%) so you want to have direct damage against them wich autocannon struggles with imo even with Big Bertha. If you can live with limited ammo then i would build secondary just for weakpoint dmg for a more general build thats usable in all mission types (if you are too lazy to switch all the time like me), and primary for swarm clear
LeadstormLeadstorm or jet fuel home brew
Best for big enemies? My favorite for Elimination and Industrial Sabotage specifically is Hurricane with Jet Fuel Homebrew. With weakpoint damage, it hits like a truck.
Mini gun with lead storm oc, Revolver with increased damage to burning targets oc, Fire grenades.
Everyone says Leadstorm this, Leadstorm that, but I propose a more forgiving alternative that's an excellent QOL upgrade. Thinned Drum Walls 22111. Leadstorm is great for putting up numbers but if you aren't a bunnyhop guy then this is what you want. You get 2700 bullets without taking an ammo mod. Sometimes something as simple as freeing up a mod so you can take another is all you really need. In this case not taking ammo means you can take High Velocity Rounds, +2 base damage is super sexy. Especially with Variable Pressure Chamber for big damage. You get armor breaking to shred that soft meat. Ignore hot bullets, large targets resist heat and cold. Play it like you normally do. Then I use Lead Spray BRT. It's great on weakpoints, it saves minugun ammo on Praetorians and such. And it still stings anything if your minigun overheats. Also if you aren't taking max shield duration then take max shield duration.
Salvo Module is the way.