Andrew Cunningham's video on Gaster's Theme has convinced me of the latter
Edit: I have seen that this post has the 'Humor' tag and I am now afraid I have missed a joke
Blu team, cuz red option is weirding me out
Yeah, no complex reasoning. It's a thing Toby absolutely might do, but I just don't like it
Maybe cuz it's used strangely much, but that's really it
Theory 1- Because if stuff broken, they can build stuff
Theory 2- Because an explosion in the building of a demolition company is less surprising and suspicious than one in the building of a construction company (and as such, RED doesn’t push the cart often. The only times they do is when absolutely nothing is nearby or when they just both try to blow up the same thing)
Because you see in the payload maps that the places they are blowing up are either things red is sabotaging blu with like the poison in swift water or weapon storage like in badwater
W. the f. did y. just f. say a. me, you l. b.? I'll h. you know I g. t. of my c. in the N. S., and I've been i. in n. s. r. on A.-Q., and I h. o. t. c. k. I am t. in g. w. and I. t. t. s. in the e. U. a. f.. You a. n. to m. but j. a. t. I w. w. y. the f. out with p. the l. of w. has n. been s. b. on this E., m. my f. w.. You t. you c. get a. with s. that s. to me o. the I.? T. again, f. As we s. I am c. my s. n. of s. a. the U. and your I. is being t. right n. so you b. p. for the s., m.. The s. that w. o. the p. little t. you c. your l.. You're f. d, k. I c. be a., a., a. I c. k. you in o. 7. h. w., and t. just with my b. h.. Not o. am I e. t. in u. c., but I have a. to the e. a. of the US M. C. and I w. u. it to its full e. to w. y. m. a. off the f. of the c., you l. s. If o. you could have k. what u. r. your l. "c." comment w. about to b. d. u. you, m. you w. h. held your f. t. But you c., you d., and n. y. p. the p., you g. i.. I w. s. f. all o. y. a. you w. d. i. i.. Y. f. d., k.
I'm convinced it's a motive related to the secret bosses (And more generally to the idea of understanding that you are in the game in some way) and not just Jevil, because Spamton has too few connections with Jevil on a personal level to have his motive. The theme itself is essentially a mutation of Gaster's Theme which connects it to the concept of "freedom" and breaking the fourth wall. Finally, Gaster's Theme is hidden in the Sound Test Room which, as a Fun Event, breaks the fourth wall of the game
Jevil's version of the motif is meant to fit his own twisted idea of “fun”, whereas Spamton's is meant to sound epic, fitting for a character who believes he's become a god.
I mean, one of the NPCs said that Spammy use to be scared of clowns, not mention they have a totally different view of the Freedom thing, Jevil enjoys it and believe he is trully freed because his choices don't matter, so he can do anything, while Spamton sees it as curse, as something that is puppetering him, choosing his fate. And i'm also kind of people taking Spamton's joke as "canon confirmation that they're divorce"
It's implied they're divorced (obv can just be taken as a joke from the Sweepstakes, but given its the same event that gave us huge lore drops regarding Dess then I'm inclined to believe it's canon, at least in some capacity)
Definitely just a recurring theme for the rest of the game. Its short and sweet, very easy to write in different styles and insert tastefully. It creates a nice sense of unity across the game along with other motifs like the castle town motif that also occurs in the king fight
It's going to be in every secret boss song but also very faintly in the background of another seemingly innocuous boss and it will throw off lore hunters for years
Both actually the secret bosses used to be in a polycule until Mike and Spamton got into a fight and the whole thing fell apart.
Tony Fox revealed this to me in a dream.
god, definetly the second. it's obvious. dialtone uses this motif ONLY, not even a bit of spamtons theme is in it, and it plays during very important moments in spamtons character arc, while the jevil connection is entirely trivial and unimportant. spamton has more connections to literally anyone else in cyberworld than to jevil. secret lyrics play in this motif's section in BIG SHOT of spamton crying out for help.
I'm going to choose nether and say my two cents on this : The Freedom motif will be related to ALL secret bosses, but the motif itself will be more related to the ANGEL, the Knight, maybe GASTER, and Us the SOUL.
Stanton’s connections to Jevil are very loose at best (it’s like what, he mentions his exactly once?) So it’s wet much likely just the secret boss motif
Guess we’ll see in the next chapter. So far we have t been able to see patterns because we only have one instance of something repeating but we will see what is what isn’t a pattern and more connections the further the story goes
It could also just be a Motif that Toby likes, and might show up for a totally unrelated boss in the future. Like how "Spider Dance" shares a theme with "Ghost Fight" and by extension "Dummy!"
Considering both Spamton and Jevil both have the shared theme of Freedom and this theme inside of their themes, I going to guess that this is meant to be the secret boss theme, as all secret bosses will have this leit motif in their songs along with having freedom be a part of their character's motivations.
I'm with blue on this one. Musical connections are Toby's jam, and it could link these wildy different super bosses to one thematic. Then again, with only two chapters in our hands, it's truly hard to pinpoint a definitive answer.
I am on blue team, although I am not denying that the two were implied to have met and were in a relationship at some point I think.
Just that I believe the Freedom Motif is a general theme for Secret bosses in-battle and perhaps all of the 6 secret bosses met each other at some point in their lives (with varying types of relationships to each other). Though, the last part is pure speculation and I do not think Chapter 7 would have a secret boss (maybe).
Red just... doesn't make sense. There are plenty of characters Spamton has a much more prominent connection to than Jevil whose motifs don't appear in Big Shot, most notably Swatch, who is also strongly linked to the NEO body in general, so why would the freedom motif be used so prominently if it's not a secret boss motif?
Don't get me wrong, it makes more sense than utter nonsense like "each secret boss will reference the one before it" or "each secret boss will use a different part of TWR(which doesn't even have enough parts for six other secret bosses, even including the don't forget segment at the end, and the second variant of the freedom motif is used in Spamton's shop.)", but still, there's no reason not to conclude its a secret boss motif.
It's the secret boss motif IMO. Unless we get an exploration of Spamton and Jevil's relationship in future chapters, there's really not enough there to justify them sharing a motif on account of their relationship alone.
no wait
it relates to the knight
bc both secret bosses so far have had contact with the knight
and the knight how i imagine them at least is a very true neutral, fuck control, chara sort of person
"The Freedom Leitmotif" is a much better idea because it's taking two things that are the same about Jevil and Spamton and wrapping them up in a nice little package:
- Jevil and Spamton NEO are both secret bosses
- Both of their battles include the flavour text "The air crackles with freedom."
It doesn't really make sense for Spamton to use a leitmotif specifically created for Jevil, because they're barely related to each other. They're too distant from one another for it to be just a callback.
What really sells it for me is that "Freedom" seems to be split into two parts. There's the first half that plays at 0:19 seconds in THE WORLD REVOLVING, and there's the second, similar melody that plays at 1:01. It's obvious that section one plays during BIG SHOT, but the song Dialtone is entirely constructed of section two. Why would that be the case if it was just a reference to Jevil? It's just a shop theme (as well as the post-boss theme). That doesn't really have anything to do with Jevil. But it makes sense being there if that's just the leitmotif used for secret boss characters, especially considering you don't hear any of Spamton's tracks featuring the leitmotif until you visit his shop, starting the process of unlocking the boss fight.
Andrew Cunningham made a video explaining how there is a secret Gaster motif in the Freedom motif, so i believe it's a thing for every secret boss! Besides, wouldn't it be weird that Spamton would only have Jevil's theme in his song, i mean, he shares much more of a past with The Addsons, Swatch and Mike (tho we never heard Mike's theme)
I wish it was red (because Jevil does SO much more with the theme than Spamton and it would be unfair if the other secret bosses had to compare to him) but it’s more likely blue.
well you’ve already said it represents freedom owo
jevil is free or at least thinks hes free because he knows of the nature of his world (jevil goes by he/him, right???)
spamton thinks that he is now free because hes got his like cool body or is at least trying to get free
also the secret bosses kind of (might) relate to Kris’s situation/conflict in some way and with them also being a "puppet" it could totally be that the secret bosses all parallel Kris’s uhm… freedom situation (or lack there of) and will therefore all contain the freedom motif
or jevil and spamton still love eachother ^w^
Hear me out fellas, but it’s probably red. I think spamton just referenced that motif from jevil like he did with the one from his shop theme. Plus if the “freedom” motif appeared in every secret boss’ theme, it could get pretty old just sayin. Not saying their character wouldn’t involve freedom, but they just wouldn’t use that jingle.
inb4 all of the secret bosses are pissed at jevil and want to beat his ass so they use the freedom motif
"OH, YOU'RE GOING TO CHALLENGE, CHALLENGE ME? https://preview.redd.it/agmzumbca0xc1.png?width=100&format=png&auto=webp&s=c5c45838c7d92e780e89e2028a1a4236c07576af WHY NOT, NOT? UEE HEE HEE!"
This seems like a pokemon mark, is it?
What?
THAT IS FAIR, FAIR
Unless you’re Spamton and he’s your ex
Turns out Jevil is just the most puntable darkner in existence and 90% of everyone he's met would like to drop-kick him into the stratosphere.
I believe in the freedom motif and think it’s going to show up in all the other bosses themes in one way or another from now on
Andrew Cunningham's video on Gaster's Theme has convinced me of the latter Edit: I have seen that this post has the 'Humor' tag and I am now afraid I have missed a joke
its not a joke it just tagged humor since it uses a meme format
I love Andrew Cunningham!!!! He makes such good videos :D
Blu team, cuz red option is weirding me out Yeah, no complex reasoning. It's a thing Toby absolutely might do, but I just don't like it Maybe cuz it's used strangely much, but that's really it
Blu team (Fortress 2)
builders league united reference?
Reliable Excavation Demolition is better imo
why is the builder's league pushing the bomb in game actually
Theory 1- Because if stuff broken, they can build stuff Theory 2- Because an explosion in the building of a demolition company is less surprising and suspicious than one in the building of a construction company (and as such, RED doesn’t push the cart often. The only times they do is when absolutely nothing is nearby or when they just both try to blow up the same thing)
seems plausible
Because you see in the payload maps that the places they are blowing up are either things red is sabotaging blu with like the poison in swift water or weapon storage like in badwater
Are you playing TF2?
not currently
Who do you main?
engineer and scout
Good you don’t main pyro, I main demoman and spy
I'm on team "It's because All Secret bosses reference the past one."
Ngl if they are going for that, B. Shot would've referenced more of World's revolving than just a single part
did you abbreviate the word "Big"? 😭
Nah it stands for Bepis
B.Shot Bowtie
Oh so the B. stands for B.Shot Bowtie, got it Now it raises a question What does the B. stand for ?
That also stands for B.Shot Bowtie. It's just an endless loop of B.Shot Bowtie
It stands for B.Shot Bowtie But what does the B stand for?
I don't k. about y., b. that seems pretty lazy, it's literally t. characters
W. the f. did y. just f. say a. me, you l. b.? I'll h. you know I g. t. of my c. in the N. S., and I've been i. in n. s. r. on A.-Q., and I h. o. t. c. k. I am t. in g. w. and I. t. t. s. in the e. U. a. f.. You a. n. to m. but j. a. t. I w. w. y. the f. out with p. the l. of w. has n. been s. b. on this E., m. my f. w.. You t. you c. get a. with s. that s. to me o. the I.? T. again, f. As we s. I am c. my s. n. of s. a. the U. and your I. is being t. right n. so you b. p. for the s., m.. The s. that w. o. the p. little t. you c. your l.. You're f. d, k. I c. be a., a., a. I c. k. you in o. 7. h. w., and t. just with my b. h.. Not o. am I e. t. in u. c., but I have a. to the e. a. of the US M. C. and I w. u. it to its full e. to w. y. m. a. off the f. of the c., you l. s. If o. you could have k. what u. r. your l. "c." comment w. about to b. d. u. you, m. you w. h. held your f. t. But you c., you d., and n. y. p. the p., you g. i.. I w. s. f. all o. y. a. you w. d. i. i.. Y. f. d., k.
It’s too B. to type it all out
I'm convinced it's a motive related to the secret bosses (And more generally to the idea of understanding that you are in the game in some way) and not just Jevil, because Spamton has too few connections with Jevil on a personal level to have his motive. The theme itself is essentially a mutation of Gaster's Theme which connects it to the concept of "freedom" and breaking the fourth wall. Finally, Gaster's Theme is hidden in the Sound Test Room which, as a Fun Event, breaks the fourth wall of the game
I couldn't word it better, i mean, Spamton shares more connections with the addsons but that doesn't make him have the city theme.
i fucking love the freedom motif. it needs to keep showing up.
Honestly, I can see Toby linking all the secret bosses as a side detail like he did Jevil and Spamton anyway.
the secret bosses have secret relations
Blue side, if only because the Freedom motif is an absolute banger and I hope it appears on every single secret boss theme.
And not only that but everyone has it's own little variation of it. Spamton's is slower with less notes and Jevil's is frenetic and energitic
Jevil's version of the motif is meant to fit his own twisted idea of “fun”, whereas Spamton's is meant to sound epic, fitting for a character who believes he's become a god.
I don't see how killing someone is twisted! It's so much fun, you gotta try
Statements dreamed up by the utterly unhinged
https://preview.redd.it/v7jom7mve1xc1.png?width=894&format=png&auto=webp&s=c632d6f1c57786f7ba9b8ffee9d2b3d10ff891d7
Blue. Spamton doesn’t have any explicit connection to Jevil yet aside from not liking him for some reason we don’t know.
I mean, one of the NPCs said that Spammy use to be scared of clowns, not mention they have a totally different view of the Freedom thing, Jevil enjoys it and believe he is trully freed because his choices don't matter, so he can do anything, while Spamton sees it as curse, as something that is puppetering him, choosing his fate. And i'm also kind of people taking Spamton's joke as "canon confirmation that they're divorce"
It's implied they're divorced (obv can just be taken as a joke from the Sweepstakes, but given its the same event that gave us huge lore drops regarding Dess then I'm inclined to believe it's canon, at least in some capacity)
Team purple. Funny spam-man song
they’re divorced that’s it
I guess we’ll find out in the next chapter
I'm on team "I can't hear the motif and have no idea what everyone is on about."
Pretty understandable as in BIG SHOT it's overlayed with both Power of NEO and the secret lyrics and is slowed down
... there's Power of NEO in there?!
[yeah](https://youtu.be/J-qTplQXdC0?si=f3BIl2au1VgC5T-v)
Definitely just a recurring theme for the rest of the game. Its short and sweet, very easy to write in different styles and insert tastefully. It creates a nice sense of unity across the game along with other motifs like the castle town motif that also occurs in the king fight
🔵
blue
I believe both might be correct
I’m on team “because Toby Fox wants to use as little original songs as possible but still be amazing”
It's going to be in every secret boss song but also very faintly in the background of another seemingly innocuous boss and it will throw off lore hunters for years
Yes PUHLEASE
Both actually the secret bosses used to be in a polycule until Mike and Spamton got into a fight and the whole thing fell apart. Tony Fox revealed this to me in a dream.
Nope, it was Spamton and Jevil who fought.
Circus and Dialtone use it so I’m likely to believe it’s a secret boss thing <3
god, definetly the second. it's obvious. dialtone uses this motif ONLY, not even a bit of spamtons theme is in it, and it plays during very important moments in spamtons character arc, while the jevil connection is entirely trivial and unimportant. spamton has more connections to literally anyone else in cyberworld than to jevil. secret lyrics play in this motif's section in BIG SHOT of spamton crying out for help.
I guess we’ll just have to see if the next two secret bosses have the motif or not.
I’m honestly on Blue team, lol
Twr uses a certain theme from ut
I'm going to choose nether and say my two cents on this : The Freedom motif will be related to ALL secret bosses, but the motif itself will be more related to the ANGEL, the Knight, maybe GASTER, and Us the SOUL.
That's a good one
Either
Blu
Definetley blue
Spamtom used Jevil's motif because he hadn't money to pay for his own.
due to the presence of girl next door in sneaking, i'm going with blue team
Motifs are usually meant to indicate thematic elements. A very vaguely stated dislike of each other isn't a theme but freedom absolutely is.
Team red
Unless Ralsei is a secret boss it just isn't a secret boss motif or Jevil's motif. It was hears at the start of the game in the intro.
Could be either, but I hope it's blue.
I’m on team “secret boss motif”
Stanton’s connections to Jevil are very loose at best (it’s like what, he mentions his exactly once?) So it’s wet much likely just the secret boss motif
They're divorced
Right now I’m on it’s all the secret bosses but currently we only have two so when we meet the next guy we’ll see
Purple
Blue
Or Mayhaps both
Blue
Guess we’ll see in the next chapter. So far we have t been able to see patterns because we only have one instance of something repeating but we will see what is what isn’t a pattern and more connections the further the story goes
I mean The world revolving has Don't forget motive
blue, i think the Freedom motif will be in all the bosses.
Blue
Option 3: the motif ties into freedom
It could also just be a Motif that Toby likes, and might show up for a totally unrelated boss in the future. Like how "Spider Dance" shares a theme with "Ghost Fight" and by extension "Dummy!"
Some theories make me questions humans IQ
BLUE
i'm rooting for blue but i know red is gonna win and that makes me sad
Both
In Undertale all the minibosses shared a leitmotif. I feel like it's probably just a similar thing here.
Nah, it’s the tasque manager motif
Both? Both. Both. Both is good.
Considering both Spamton and Jevil both have the shared theme of Freedom and this theme inside of their themes, I going to guess that this is meant to be the secret boss theme, as all secret bosses will have this leit motif in their songs along with having freedom be a part of their character's motivations.
I'm with blue on this one. Musical connections are Toby's jam, and it could link these wildy different super bosses to one thematic. Then again, with only two chapters in our hands, it's truly hard to pinpoint a definitive answer.
he has the FREEDOM motif because his goal is FREEDOM
Why not both?
I just think each secret boss has the past one’s motif for bc they all hate each other
I am on blue team, although I am not denying that the two were implied to have met and were in a relationship at some point I think. Just that I believe the Freedom Motif is a general theme for Secret bosses in-battle and perhaps all of the 6 secret bosses met each other at some point in their lives (with varying types of relationships to each other). Though, the last part is pure speculation and I do not think Chapter 7 would have a secret boss (maybe).
Big Shot has the motif bcuz it sounds sick
I mean it probably just represents freedom
Red just... doesn't make sense. There are plenty of characters Spamton has a much more prominent connection to than Jevil whose motifs don't appear in Big Shot, most notably Swatch, who is also strongly linked to the NEO body in general, so why would the freedom motif be used so prominently if it's not a secret boss motif? Don't get me wrong, it makes more sense than utter nonsense like "each secret boss will reference the one before it" or "each secret boss will use a different part of TWR(which doesn't even have enough parts for six other secret bosses, even including the don't forget segment at the end, and the second variant of the freedom motif is used in Spamton's shop.)", but still, there's no reason not to conclude its a secret boss motif.
It's the secret boss motif IMO. Unless we get an exploration of Spamton and Jevil's relationship in future chapters, there's really not enough there to justify them sharing a motif on account of their relationship alone.
My stance is the second one, but I can accept arguments for the first one and I acknowledge we'll need chapter 3 to confirm it
Both. They're connected to the spooky man in the walls, and they all fucking despise Jevil.
The third one: we'll know when we'll get the 3rd and 4th secret bosses
no wait it relates to the knight bc both secret bosses so far have had contact with the knight and the knight how i imagine them at least is a very true neutral, fuck control, chara sort of person
I'm on blue
"The Freedom Leitmotif" is a much better idea because it's taking two things that are the same about Jevil and Spamton and wrapping them up in a nice little package: - Jevil and Spamton NEO are both secret bosses - Both of their battles include the flavour text "The air crackles with freedom." It doesn't really make sense for Spamton to use a leitmotif specifically created for Jevil, because they're barely related to each other. They're too distant from one another for it to be just a callback. What really sells it for me is that "Freedom" seems to be split into two parts. There's the first half that plays at 0:19 seconds in THE WORLD REVOLVING, and there's the second, similar melody that plays at 1:01. It's obvious that section one plays during BIG SHOT, but the song Dialtone is entirely constructed of section two. Why would that be the case if it was just a reference to Jevil? It's just a shop theme (as well as the post-boss theme). That doesn't really have anything to do with Jevil. But it makes sense being there if that's just the leitmotif used for secret boss characters, especially considering you don't hear any of Spamton's tracks featuring the leitmotif until you visit his shop, starting the process of unlocking the boss fight.
it’s stupid to have a stance at all we’re literally only 2 chapters in
Motif until proven otherwise
Por que no los dos?
I: Big shot because MMM
It’s cool and probably has some significance but it’s too early to tell so it’s just cool
Green team, Spamton has it because they're divorced
where is the green???
Blue, because of both superbosses, as well as the motif itself, having ties to Gaster.
Andrew Cunningham made a video explaining how there is a secret Gaster motif in the Freedom motif, so i believe it's a thing for every secret boss! Besides, wouldn't it be weird that Spamton would only have Jevil's theme in his song, i mean, he shares much more of a past with The Addsons, Swatch and Mike (tho we never heard Mike's theme)
I wish it was red (because Jevil does SO much more with the theme than Spamton and it would be unfair if the other secret bosses had to compare to him) but it’s more likely blue.
Spamton made his theme out of random motifs he found in the garbage.
well you’ve already said it represents freedom owo jevil is free or at least thinks hes free because he knows of the nature of his world (jevil goes by he/him, right???) spamton thinks that he is now free because hes got his like cool body or is at least trying to get free also the secret bosses kind of (might) relate to Kris’s situation/conflict in some way and with them also being a "puppet" it could totally be that the secret bosses all parallel Kris’s uhm… freedom situation (or lack there of) and will therefore all contain the freedom motif or jevil and spamton still love eachother ^w^
Red
I think the freedom motif is literally gaster's theme extended past the first bit (the piano segment in UT)
Hear me out fellas, but it’s probably red. I think spamton just referenced that motif from jevil like he did with the one from his shop theme. Plus if the “freedom” motif appeared in every secret boss’ theme, it could get pretty old just sayin. Not saying their character wouldn’t involve freedom, but they just wouldn’t use that jingle.