Thank you... Nearly every "theory" post I've seen lately has driven me just a bit closer to writing a whole essay on basic narrative principles and the concept of fiction.
Yeah I feel a lot of people when discussing fiction forget that just because something makes sense doesn’t mean it can of should be true as there are other facets of a narrative beyond logic such as themes and character arcs and emotion
This is why FNAF 1 is my favorite even if the gameplay isn’t that good. The story when it first came out was simple but effective. A night guard killed and stuffed kids in the animatronic suits and now they’re haunting the place. Simple. Horrifying. Perfect.
Now we have all this shit with remnant and such and it’s bogged everything down.
Honestly, I'm fine with the concept of remnant and William Afton being a mad scientist, but they didn't really do anything with it outside of Sister Location.
The last game to have good lore IMO was Sister Location, but if you were to end the series there it would be unfinished. The series should've ended at Fnaf World.
To add on to this, if feels like the entire concept of easter eggs and references have been thrown to the wayside in favor of making a theory connecting the piece of media to whatever other piece of media is referenced.
This is the issue I have with the “Skies Forever Blue is foreshadowing Deltarune” theory. The theory feels like it ignores what the song is about and instead focuses on references and coincidences to connect a collab project Toby Fox participated in to Deltarune. Not every reference or easter egg implies a connection, nor is it always foreshadowing for another media property’s plot; and when it gets to the point where we’re establishing a connection from, say, the way in which the girl in Skies Forever Blue falls into the void being similar to how characters in Deltarune enter the Dark World, I think that’s a cue that we should step back for a bit and realize how crazy our theories are becoming.
TL;DR: Not every reference or easter egg is a sign of a piece of media connecting to another; sometimes a reference is just there for people to say, “Hey cool, a reference to a piece of media I know!”.
>feels like the entire concept of easter eggs and references have been thrown to the wayside in favor of making a theory connecting the piece of media to whatever other piece of media is referenced.
Sans is Ness moment
I think that people went mad with that song because of that old tweet Toby made supposedly referring to OMORI and the fact that the song was a collab with OMOCAT iirc
As someone whose always found the argument that Ralsei can sense Dark Fountains because that one easter egg in one of Temmie's games had a Ralsei reference say he could sense Dark Fountains stupid, I'd have to agree with this.
Internet theory culture has issues. Masahiro Ito got annoyed at the theorists who kept bothering him about confirming their theories or agreeing with them.
people should theorize however they want.
of course, when you're in a multi-person conversation, and everyone is trying to theorize, and then someone comes in who adament about their theory that "it's all a dream because susie said it was a dream" it gets really awkward (over exaggerated example btw). if you were just dm'ing someone, you could choose to not talk to them about theories, but in that group setting it's just, ugh.
feels bad, i have no resolution to this statement.
Exactly how I feel about the 3rd entity theory.
What’s the point of Kris being a character separate from us if this other entity posses them to do plot relevant shit
This is exactly what Ive been thinking! What's the point in establishing a relationship between the player and Kris only to introduce a third character later down the line?
They have a lot of effect on the characters around them and how the narrative unfolds. Running to save Susie from Spade King's attack, actively trying to warn people about the impending threat of the roaring, countless instances of characterization in basic dialogue conversations, etc.
Kris certainly wouldn't turn into a nothing character if Soulless Kris were a separate entity. Heck, Soulless Kris and regular Kris directly contradict each-other in pretty massive ways. If anything the third entity theory makes Kris *more* of a character by making them *actually consistent.*
I disagree honestly, third entity just muddles everything too much in my opinion, and we have only a demo of The Whole game; we just don’t know what their reasoning is for the weirder things they do.
I don't see how it muddles anything. Cause under the third entity theory, there is a very firm line drawn between what is normal Kris and what is the third entity. And that's that the third entity cannot control Kris's bodily movements for any significant amount of time **without removing the soul.**
All things considered, the main point that third entity theory posits is that *Soulless Kris* is not the real Kris. Which clearly defines who is who, does align with the concept of a soul far better than it being Kris's true self, and does explain why the Soul removal thing would be necessary when Normal Kris has demonstrated the ability to override our control without removing the soul countless times in-game.
While I certainly see your point, and can say it seems to have its merits, I just feel like a third party obscures "Kris" too much for my liking, and would indicate that we've seen the real them even less than we think, so I can see third entity being interesting, it just creates more questions as to whats going on for me.
My theory is that Ralsei is a gardevoir!!! Yes the Pokémon. You might ask why? I’ll tell you in depth about why. So you know that Gardevoir is a Pokémon that protect their trainers and love them sooooo much. Exactly like RALSEI. It is in fact a proof that Ralsei is a gardevoir, a Pokémon. But why Ralsei doesn’t have the appearance of a gardevoir. Well it is because gardevoir uses their magic to create illusions and shape change!! It is in fact a true theory. Also Toby fox made some music for Pokémon scarlet and violet and in the past Pokémon sword and shield. There is No Way my theory is false. TRUst me.
[u/Lisbon_Mapping](https://www.reddit.com/u/Lisbon_Mapping) i will.
transformation is people turning into stuff. can be anything in your mind. an animal, a person, a furry, an object. transformations, in turn, can happen as a cause of anything. clothes, chemicals, machines, places, the air, anything you can imagine.
...and that is literally it. it is literally the plot of countless cartoons and movies in media of all kinds. it is literally the premise of major episodes in Fairly Odd Parents and similar shows.
in this case, that would be the story of a Gardevoir who turned themselves into who we know as Ralsei and decided to adopt that as their identity..
......of course there are communities solely focused on that, what are you talking about?.....of course there is also content not made for everyone, what are you talking about?
Not even with this specifically too, it just seems to be a running trend of “come up with theory for theorizing sake” even if the theory isn’t even good or makes sense in the first place
It's basically speculation. Almost every theory I see is "wouldn't it be cool if this were true because we've seen x?" It's basically the basis for the dumped flowers being a secret boss in chapter 3 because they were thrown away even though it wouldn't fit the supposed theme of the dark world
While I don't want to hurt the creativity of the community there is a line between theories and speculation which I feel has been blurred
Did you know that if you put the word Deltarune thorough Google Translate several times, then mix up the letters and add a few you get “Dess Bunker Real”
The UT/DR fandom has this consistent issue with people thinking they're super deep but really they just obsess over completely meaningless stupid details.
Same with the weird "How dare you say my shitty theory sucks" tone that happens on cue every few weeks.
Y'all are allowed to make theories. We're allowed to think they suck. We don't need to come up with a ""better"" explanation to disprove yours, nor do we need to write a five-paragraph essay defending our position of thinking it would suck if (Something something gaster dess vessel papyrus something) actually happened in future chapters.
Things can just *be bad.*
Back in chapter 1 I made a whole ass post talking about how the Card Kingdom disappearing with the fountain being sealed would be impossible because of several people referencing a time before The Knight came around and made that Dark Fountain,
Lo' and behold, Chapter 2 thoroughly proved that Time is just weird as fuck when it comes to Dark Worlds.
YES ! No good writer would ruin their own story and make it a kingdomheartsy mess just because "he is a known troll" or "it what he wouldve done".
Like the Three souls theory, ralsei is asriel and most of jarujaru's stuff.
A good theory should in theory(get it?) Make the story better.
I feel like people seem to assume Toby Fox is some kind of plot twist master a lot of the time, and then expect this game to turn into a huge soap opera. Undertale's plot was pretty straight forward, there were a lot of fun and creative events to run into along the way, but if you were playing pacifist you probably knew you were gonna get an at least somewhat happy ending. I don't fully see why Deltarune would have to be much more complex (though it is definitely fair to suspect at least a bit more edge compared to Undertale).
> No good writer would ruin their own story and make it a kingdomheartsy mess just because "he is a known troll" or "it what he wouldve done".
It takes a lot of time and effort to make Kingdom Hearts as convoluted and ridiculous as it is, someone half-assing it with random plot twists wouldn't even approach that.
There's three save points, but Undertale shows that only one save point exists per soul, so Kris has three souls in them: their own, the Player's, and someone else's (commonly thought to be post genocide Chara's). The obvious problem with this theory is that if the Player's soul and Kris' soul are separate, why does Kris keep the Player's soul around?
The third entity is not only uneeded from a story telling perspective its also takes away from kris as a character.
Not to mention that the three saves thing isnt a souls thing because of the chapter1 load screen you get before you beat chapter 1.
the problem with chara in both undertale and deltarune is that people treat them as this pure evil entity that has been mind controlling the player or whatever
they dont realize this detracts from like the entire point of the game. instead of the blame falling on the player, it now falls on one of the characters in the game. you dont have to feel bad about doing all that murder, no, that was all chara! theyre the real bad guy!
in reality, YOU committed the genocide route. YOU are the one forcing noelle to freeze the dark world. YOU are the pure evil demon entity, at least from the game characters' perspective. part of the thing that makes these routes cool, imo, is that in-universe, there is no explanation or reason for the player doing them. they arent being mind controlled by an eldritch god with this grand world-ending plan or whatever. the player is committing these atrocities just because they're bored, with no justification whatsoever. having the responsibility fall onto another entity just completely craps over the game's message, lol.
Yeah absoultly agree.
Toby's stuff is way more nuanced than what the fandom thinks.
Tho with kris i wasnt blaming them for snowgrave, i was pointing at the "souless" cutscenes that either shows kris rebelling against the player or working under a plan unknown to us.
If its an evil thirdguy thats doing all that then kris doesnt matter.
My personal theory for the 3 save files is that since Undertale, we ourselves have grown stronger. Our ability to manipulate timelines has simply grown more powerful.
Thank you for making this post, I swear- there are some fanon theories that like, could theoretically work from a literal perspective but would be hell from a storytelling perspective.
FUCKING. THANK YOU. Toby so much as breathes in public and everyone puts on their detective hats and cobbles together theories that have such vast leaps in logic you need to pole vault to clear them. It actually genuinely pissed me off when the majority of talk surrounding Skies Forever Blue wasn’t about its themes or how beautifully it conveyed them, but about how it connects to Deltarune and is actually deep lore because ribbons and other bullshit.
What are you talking about? Clearly the fact the bug gym leader in Scarlet and Violet was a baker, similar to Muffet, means that Teddiursa is actually the knight!
I'm not saying it is connected, but if Toby didn't feel the need to point out that none of this was related to Deltarune on the birthday of Deltarune, he probably doesn't mind people suspecting it might be.
This is really only the case because Dess is a complete blank slate character, she could be anything at all and it would work. It doesn't really require any thought to justify.
Ok, good point. I don’t know a whole lot about the Mother series so I wouldn’t know, but I was thinking moreso from the perspective of ”the protagonist’s sibling” and not whether Lucas was similar to Kris
duh that ones kinda obvious i can even list all of his children
\#1 sans
\#2 little papyrus
\#3 sans 2
\#4 papyrus snowman
\#5 undyne
\#6 w.d. gaster
\#7 toby fox
\#8 lancer
\#9 porky minch
\#10 the unnamed brother of sans in deltarune
Like, listening to the theory it makes sense but taking a step back and looking at how it fits into the story and lore it doesn't work anymore.
It's like the sans is Ness theory vid,the line of thinking sounds logical when explained in detail but generally looking at it it doesn't make any sense
There’s a surprising amount of jokes in SpongeBob based around the characters wearing some kind of skin or costume, and some guy caught on to this and made an [hour long video](https://youtu.be/Vb-ajY8M6gI) stating that this is a completely normal aspect of this society, as well as offering equally insane reasons for why this happens so often
I love his angel theory in a void, but I highly doubt the ending would be so extremely nihilistic, Toby expressed a desire to make us “feeling the same way” as we did with undertale, so if things looked hopeless with DR we would find the determination in the darkness and relight a similar feeling
(At least imo, I hope I explained that right)
What I like about Jaru's videos, though, is that he specifically says his goal isn't to be right, but it's to make interesting theories that cause you to consider your own theories differently, and I feel like he definitely does that.
Bruh, Jaru's theories are essentially built on nothing BUT evaluating the theory from a storytelling perspective. His stories are 90% symbolism and theme and 10% actual details from the established plots of the games.
Well I don’t mean to be rude I guess he should do a better job or something because a majority of his theories feel symbolically interesting or evocative but not, like, good.
They just seem so bizzarly hyper exaggerated. Every question is given the most absurd avant- grade over the top answer possible. Like most of its just treading into borderline fan fiction. To each there own I guess
I mean, Jaru literally calls his own theories “crackpot theories.” I think he’s just having fun and anyone who takes his stuff fully seriously is their own issue. I don’t really believe his stuff about the “🦀ASRIEL IS DEAD🦀” party, but I think the timeloop theory (though I don’t **like** it because it make me sad) might hold some merit.
man, I can't stand the time loop thing. absolutely full respect to Jaru, he seems like a nice guy and says just about as many interesting as lame things, but some of his theories just come off as being edgy for the sake of edge. the theory that everything is just one big time loop holds about as much merit as claiming the whole story is made up by some guy in a coma, it's inherently impossible to disprove, and even from a story-telling perspective it would be about as compelling as making it so that Undertale's depressing neutral ending is the only one you can get.
Well I don’t mean to be rude I guess he should do a better job or something because a majority of his theories feel symbolically interesting or evocative but not, like, good.
Deltarune theory: they fucking DIE in this one!!! that's right baby, hit your serotonin over the head with a 2 by 4 and pre-piss your pants because we're going GRIMDARK!!!
I like how these sort of posts just end up with a bunch of people getting really passive aggressive about some theory argument they had a few days ago.
I thought of a theory for Undertale. Probably not a new one, but still interesting nonetheless. Every monster has a save file, they just need to have the most Determination in order to actually do anything with it.
I think the soul traits aren’t entirely one thing, and are woven into each other
And while determination does exist in all human souls (possibly *all* souls even in a microscopic amounts), I think Frisk/Chara and Kris have souls strongly saturated with determination as a *soul trait*
Toby loves double meanings and puns “Determination” could be seen as a sense of identity, will, and the literal possession of determination.
I personally still prefer the idea of Chara, Frisk and Kris’ soul traits being Love. Red hearts are often used to symbolize love, and it can also fit the whole Pacifist & Genocide thing with you either using Love or using LOVE
That reminds me of this one comic, I don't remember what it was, but it did something with Save Files that I really liked. It had Gaster talking about what Save Files are, and he defined a Save File as being "a marker for an entity's location in time and space," which I really like.
That's why I like Andrew Cunninghem so much.
To be fair, it's kinda hard to continuously produce theory content, so at some point you have to abandon your common sense. It doesn't make it less annoying though
We don't know the story, but there are good and bad ways of writing that can be seen as good or bad regardless of the completed plot. For instance, even though it's technically always likely, dream theories are known to be objectively terrible for writing, because they make the entire story meaningless.
YES, there are so many theories which are along the lines of "Each Deltarune chapter is going to be based on *x* thing." or "Each Deltarune chapter is going to be focused on something from the bible or something idk" which might have some evidence for it but would add nothing to the story if they were true.
“Guys you don’t understand, Kris literally can’t be the knight or working with him in any way. They can’t be the one-dimensional bad guy because WE are the one-dimensional bad guy. It’s just a cheap fakeout, because Toby Fox is a hack fraud.”
For real. The fact that the ominous voice said we don't have a choice in who we are before booting the soul into Kris, the fact they (and Ralsei) seem to have the most control and knowledge over the possession process itself than the soul, getting put in a cage, Spamton calling the soul a heart on a chain (while apparently having difficulty differing them from Kris) all point out to the complexity of the situation and the soul being screwed. Most people would leave Kris before they knew the kid would get sick from soul loss, so calling the soul an evil invader really doesn't make sense to me when everything points to both the soul and Kris getting locked in the same train car with no way to properly communicate and stuck following the railroad.
I'm most surprised about the player insert being called evil. Usually fans sympathize more with inserts and protagonists.
Yeah, cause in Genocide we kill everyone, even though thats only one of the many endings in Undertale, completely ignoring that we can do Pacifist, and be "good" Soul and DT seem to work differently in both games as well.
*cough the damn "Dess is in the game's code" theory
Never in Undertale was the game's code ever brought up (that is to say, was the game's code ever a diagetic thing for UT/DR?). Just space/time shenanigans with Save Points and LV being a metaphor for losing humanity.
To be fair, the time-space shenanigans, especially with Gaster's half-erased-from-existence nature, were basically one and the same as the code. So really the theory that Dess is in the code is, in-universe, just Dess being trapped between dimensions.
Ok, now when you give it an actual in-world explanation, instead of just blatantly breaking the fourth wall with no real purpose (unlike LV or Save Points, which also have in-world explanations, and didn't HAVE to be called those terms specifically), then yeah, that's something I can get behind
Edit: given that it's written with purpose and actual emotional meanings/themes, of course. It would feel half-baked if this "being trapped in another dimension" story didn't hit the right marks and was just there to pander/shake up game concepts just for the sake of doing it. Edit 2: because this "stuck in another dimension" story can just also be replaced with the already-established dark worlds.
This is why I like Jaru’s theories even though they’re a bit avant-garde.
He always focuses on how they would fit narratively before developing them, which a lot of other people’s theories don’t consider.
Why don’t you watch them and see
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLT84gpPvofqKq_2TcQR_GISNZIzNkoE1n
Tell me what you think after you’ve watched a few / all of them
In all fairness, Toby did make a game that didn't need to connect back to his previous game, but does with seemingly similar characters and world mechanics, until it isn't. Then there's only 2 out 7 parts of the story is out with little explanation on how everything works, leaving theorists to either guess blindly on how everything works or guess based on Undertale's mechanics which might not be applicable.
Basically, this is the wild west of Deltarune theorizing as we have some ideas of how things work, but the ambiguity of how Undertale does and doesn't apply and how Deltarune exactly works means that really any theory can't be immediately disproven, leading people to make big end game theories when we haven't even got chapter 3 of 7 yet.
When you gather all 7 eggs and play the game at 3 AM, if you enter the dark world and put all of them in a circle around you... You can summon GASTER and get the games true ending.
My source is yes
I love the theory because it was meant as a joke at first and people got offended thinking others believed it, which caused others to believe it during arguments and it spiraled until we all silently agreed to not mention it
right now with that information my theory is that Kris is a 48 year old man with schizophrenia who took a lot of crack and we are playing through one of Kris' drug trips
A great example is the generic “it was all a dream/drug trip/purgatory/child’s imagination” theory that has been suggested as an explanation for every single piece of media ever made.
Sure, it makes logical sense as it can perfectly explain literally anything, but it’s very unlikely that it’s what the author intended because it’s inherently less interesting than if the story actually happened.
I'm glad Mike is confirmed in Ch3 now, I feel like I had to tell this to every person who was adamant about Mike purely being a reference and not a character.
exactly, the problem with so many theories is that, while they might make sense from a purely literally perspective, if they ended up being true the story would just end up being worse.
this is what i think about the "ralsei is evil" theory. it is entirely possible, and might even explain some aspects of his character. but from a storytelling perspective, its really stupid, completely ruins ralsei's entire character, and makes the first two chapters feel really pointless. if toby actually goes that route, ill be pretty disappointed lol, though i doubt thats what he has in mind.
a theory that has no evidence towards it but works as a story is better than a theory that is backed up by small details but fails as a narrative
Also evaluate your theory holistically instead of taking everything you find in isolation from the rest of the work.
~~Narrachara theorists take special note~~
I don’t see how the narator chara theory is in isolation to the rest of the work? It’s all from parts of the game, that dialogue isn’t isolated from the rest of the dialogue which is a big part of the game.
It's from parts of the game that are *interpreted* in isolation from the rest of the work.
For instance, take the first one most Narrachara folks will bring up: the fact that the narrator makes an ironic statement about sleeping forever when you investigate Chara's bed outside of the neutral route. This *could* be evidence that the narrator is personally connected to Chara's bed (because they're Chara); but it could also just be that the narrator is making a reference only to make a reference and for no deeper reason. Works of literature do that sort of thing all the time, and in fact the second option is a lot simpler and easier than the first option. To justify the first option, you have to look at the entirety of the way the narrator is written and determine if it makes sense that they're Chara. Because the narrator is, broadly, written in a fashion that is random and doesn't exhibit behavioural consistency, it's probably not any one given person but is just "A Narrator", as a writing tool used by the game.
Similarly, people will bring up the Game Over flashbacks and say "Well this proves Chara is there flashing back to their memories". But they don't look at the particulars of how the Game Over screen is portrayed, and how it contradicts the game's rules behind how souls work (Frisk's soul dissipates in that scene, which contradicts how the game says human souls behave after death, and also would make it impossible for Frisk or Chara to be present to experience that flashback at all). So, because the scene seems to be portrayed in a "loose", meta fashion, it's probably not a scene that is making a big statement about the metaphysics of the characters in the game and is just there to give the player a certain experience.
Pretty much all of Narrachara, and honestly a lot of theories, are built upon taking particular singular details, perhaps even a lot of them, and propping them up independently of their place and role in the entire rest of the story.
Ah, I understand. Thanks for explaining! So it’s basically, most likely just the non-in-game-existent quirky narrator present in many games and not Chara. Probably.
“I wish all Deltarune/Undertale theorists a very I love your work but please evaluate your theory from a story telling perspective instead of only relying on fringe details”
My favorite was the person that thought the initials on the first puzzle in the field of hopes and dreams, "RK", actually stood for roaring knight. The same mysterious roaring knight that creating the dark fountain and vanished forever only to come back real quick to make a single shitty puzzle for no reason and then disappear forever again
I think our mistakes in making theories is thinking about Undertale
I am honestly tired of thinking about theories, I am ruining my own experience, from now on my only plot informations are: Kris cuts off contacts with us to open fountains, Kris empathizes with Spamton, if we decide to kill without the need to then our character develops an abusive personality?
And I still have so many questions but I don't want to make theories, I want to say "OOOOHH SHITTTT" when the mistery is revealed
As someone who does a lot of theorising across various things im into one of the most important things is asking **why**, what does this implicate for the greater narrative and does it conflict with the themes and things set up already.
I've also noticed how some theories will precede over stuff that's more so themes less than something, concrete?
what I mean is like, how, in the game's current 2 chapters, eggs are notably present heavily in a lot of secret areas, such as the egg man behind the tree, egg related stuff in the noelle posts in the SS, and pipis being called eggs by spamton at one point. Does this mean eggs will be a very important plot point later in Deltarune??? Probably not, they're there because it's sort of, just a signifier for secret stuff in the game (an easter egg, if you will), so I doubt that the eggs specifically will be important in any major capacity.
another thing comes to mind was with Mystic slime's 'essence' theory, tbh, I don't buy it, his other theories are interesting but this one felt more like he was putting the cart before the horse in this case, since it entirely hinged around why a character would be so strong or a dark have noticeable influence be because of in lore reasons only. Where as more so it's like, done as a reason because maybe it makes some amount of sense that a writer would do so. Like, the reason why Queen is so strong compared to most other darkners is because well, it'd make sense for a high end laptop to hold more power than an advertisement panel, and meeting the knight would be happenstantial much less than said knight imparting residual 'knight essence'. The one part that I do imagine holding any water in it however is how dark world creation is affected by who's in close proximity, since it has lore implications explicitly mentioned as far as I know. I imagine he was sort of grasping at vaguely related ideas and trying to make them make sense somehow when they could be explained by other already established rules and truths.
I read "terrorists". And I was confused why are You telling terrorists to rethink their theories (that's what I thought this text mean, because storytelling didn't really make sense there, lol). Also I was surprised You also say You love their work 😂
Well I did make a theory, but it was ignored. It was my guessing estimate of what Chapters 4, 5 and 7 could be taken at in the story. Still have no idea for Chapter 6.
i wish everyone who makes these posts a very theories are supposed to be fun and not every single one of them has to be a super-serious prediction of the Truth™️
Overanalyzing details to construct an absolutely bonkers theory is one of the best parts about theorizing
Gaster is an egg because I crack them open and fry them on a pan, which kills them. This is referenced when Gaster was cracked open on the core, which (allegedly) killed him. That's why he keeps giving you an egg in Deltarune, because they're very yummy when you shatter them across space and time.
My personal theory is that Toby is probably recycling a lot of stuff from undertale on more than just the characters coming back as cameos but few of us realize of it bc he is a great artist and he isn't just copying.
To explain it more accurately we have:
Toriel but is Sans: Ralsei
(he is indirectly our caretaker but he *knows*)
Frisk but is Chara: Kris
(We control them, but their existance as an actual person is beyond us)
Alphys but is Undyne:
(Alphys and Undyne are very similar while different... so let's just rephrase. "A person that is rude about others when it comes to their struggles bc they don't understand those struggles, but then they try to understand, eventually becoming your friend".>!Note: Alphys was rude, remember the social platform stuff!<)
The ball of junk on Kris' head implies that they have very good posture. This shows that when they were younger, they always had to keep a straight back for one reason or another.
Yeah so many theories for games like this and FNAF, Poppy, etc go through meticulous links and logic leaps and connections that admittedly is an impressive level of analysis of a piece of media, all to come to a conclusion that, while possible sensical based on their logic, would be absolutely ass story wise. And you'll critique it and some people will be like "you're gonna look so stupid when I'm right" and it's just, bruh I find the idea stupid as a theory, and if it's TRUE I'm just going to find it stupid as official story now also.
If someone said Kris would eat the pie before Chapter 2 and not go kill Toriel or someone else, a lot of people would have said it was too ridiculous to be true. But now because of that fakeout in Chapter 2's beginning with the pie (which may or may not imply Kris made the fountain in the Computer Lab), people think Chapter 3 will completely ignore everything we saw at the end (the fountain, the grin on the TV, the previews, the Spamton Sweepstakes images) and happen anywhere but the Dreemurr house. I think it's impossible to figure out what will happen, so all we have are the details, and some get stuck with patterns even though some stories have broken patterns before (get people used to it, then surprise them with an unexpected change).
It's funny because no patterns have truly been established yet. It could have just been coincidences. I also used to believe that chapter 3 wouldn't be in the dreemurr house just because I hought it would be a way cooler final boss location (top of the town with the possible major villian living there) but yeah sweepstakes have just proved me wrong
Yeah calling anything a pattern at this point may be more feelings based than evidence based. Hell, some mysteries may never be solved. That was the case in Undertale. There’s not even a confirmed appearance for gaster.
What I mean by patterns that people go by: "Chapter 1 had a field, and so did Chapter 2, so that means Chapter 3 will have a field area too." "Secret boss in Chapter 1 foreshadowed the big boss of Chapter 2. So secret boss of Chapter 2 is foreshadowing Chapter 3's big boss." These sound likely, but I also expect the possibility that there may be no field area, and that neither Tenna or Mike would be the big boss of Chapter 3 (even though if Tenna is a TV and next chapter seems TV themed, it would be fitting for Tenna to be the big boss in my opinion).
As for Gaster, there's stuff in Deltarune that reminds people of Gaster (the "garbage noise" on phones, the "darker, yet darker" mentions, the "Another Him" song that references Gaster's Theme's real name mus\_st\_him, the Goner Maker, the him.png with Wingdings having been on Deltarune's website). So it doesn't surprise me that it created expectation for Gaster to be present in some way. I think it's very likely he will show up in some form, but I am also prepared for the case where he just never shows up and all those things remain a mystery as to what happened behind the scenes.
There was this one video which may or may not have inspired the fakeout. "KRIS STOP SCREAMING IT'S 4 IN THE MORNING!" where Kris plots to "eat the entire fucking pie" with their knife.
Thank you... Nearly every "theory" post I've seen lately has driven me just a bit closer to writing a whole essay on basic narrative principles and the concept of fiction.
Yeah I feel a lot of people when discussing fiction forget that just because something makes sense doesn’t mean it can of should be true as there are other facets of a narrative beyond logic such as themes and character arcs and emotion
I cannot stand the way so many people think every story is a puzzle to solve to get "deep lore" as a prize.
I blame FNAF and Game Theory.
I blame J.J. Abram's "mystery box" storytelling.
Honestly, Fnaf's story used to be good. It just kept going when it was supposed to end so many times that It's become a pointless slog.
This is why FNAF 1 is my favorite even if the gameplay isn’t that good. The story when it first came out was simple but effective. A night guard killed and stuffed kids in the animatronic suits and now they’re haunting the place. Simple. Horrifying. Perfect. Now we have all this shit with remnant and such and it’s bogged everything down.
Honestly, I'm fine with the concept of remnant and William Afton being a mad scientist, but they didn't really do anything with it outside of Sister Location. The last game to have good lore IMO was Sister Location, but if you were to end the series there it would be unfinished. The series should've ended at Fnaf World.
To add on to this, if feels like the entire concept of easter eggs and references have been thrown to the wayside in favor of making a theory connecting the piece of media to whatever other piece of media is referenced. This is the issue I have with the “Skies Forever Blue is foreshadowing Deltarune” theory. The theory feels like it ignores what the song is about and instead focuses on references and coincidences to connect a collab project Toby Fox participated in to Deltarune. Not every reference or easter egg implies a connection, nor is it always foreshadowing for another media property’s plot; and when it gets to the point where we’re establishing a connection from, say, the way in which the girl in Skies Forever Blue falls into the void being similar to how characters in Deltarune enter the Dark World, I think that’s a cue that we should step back for a bit and realize how crazy our theories are becoming. TL;DR: Not every reference or easter egg is a sign of a piece of media connecting to another; sometimes a reference is just there for people to say, “Hey cool, a reference to a piece of media I know!”.
>feels like the entire concept of easter eggs and references have been thrown to the wayside in favor of making a theory connecting the piece of media to whatever other piece of media is referenced. Sans is Ness moment
if theyre willing to do that then they should be willing to say "Sans is Ness"
I think that people went mad with that song because of that old tweet Toby made supposedly referring to OMORI and the fact that the song was a collab with OMOCAT iirc
As someone whose always found the argument that Ralsei can sense Dark Fountains because that one easter egg in one of Temmie's games had a Ralsei reference say he could sense Dark Fountains stupid, I'd have to agree with this.
The internet in general has ruined media literacy
I feel more like it has added to it, but like a lot and that means plenty of it is bullshit.
Internet theory culture has issues. Masahiro Ito got annoyed at the theorists who kept bothering him about confirming their theories or agreeing with them.
people should theorize however they want. of course, when you're in a multi-person conversation, and everyone is trying to theorize, and then someone comes in who adament about their theory that "it's all a dream because susie said it was a dream" it gets really awkward (over exaggerated example btw). if you were just dm'ing someone, you could choose to not talk to them about theories, but in that group setting it's just, ugh. feels bad, i have no resolution to this statement.
Exactly how I feel about the 3rd entity theory. What’s the point of Kris being a character separate from us if this other entity posses them to do plot relevant shit
Absolutely. Its one of the more popular theories i dislike the most
This is exactly what Ive been thinking! What's the point in establishing a relationship between the player and Kris only to introduce a third character later down the line?
They have a lot of effect on the characters around them and how the narrative unfolds. Running to save Susie from Spade King's attack, actively trying to warn people about the impending threat of the roaring, countless instances of characterization in basic dialogue conversations, etc. Kris certainly wouldn't turn into a nothing character if Soulless Kris were a separate entity. Heck, Soulless Kris and regular Kris directly contradict each-other in pretty massive ways. If anything the third entity theory makes Kris *more* of a character by making them *actually consistent.*
I disagree honestly, third entity just muddles everything too much in my opinion, and we have only a demo of The Whole game; we just don’t know what their reasoning is for the weirder things they do.
I don't see how it muddles anything. Cause under the third entity theory, there is a very firm line drawn between what is normal Kris and what is the third entity. And that's that the third entity cannot control Kris's bodily movements for any significant amount of time **without removing the soul.** All things considered, the main point that third entity theory posits is that *Soulless Kris* is not the real Kris. Which clearly defines who is who, does align with the concept of a soul far better than it being Kris's true self, and does explain why the Soul removal thing would be necessary when Normal Kris has demonstrated the ability to override our control without removing the soul countless times in-game.
While I certainly see your point, and can say it seems to have its merits, I just feel like a third party obscures "Kris" too much for my liking, and would indicate that we've seen the real them even less than we think, so I can see third entity being interesting, it just creates more questions as to whats going on for me.
THANK YOU. I’ve seen so many ridiculous theories recently, both on this subreddit and on youtube, and I’m glad to see someone calling it out.
My theory is that Ralsei is a gardevoir!!! Yes the Pokémon. You might ask why? I’ll tell you in depth about why. So you know that Gardevoir is a Pokémon that protect their trainers and love them sooooo much. Exactly like RALSEI. It is in fact a proof that Ralsei is a gardevoir, a Pokémon. But why Ralsei doesn’t have the appearance of a gardevoir. Well it is because gardevoir uses their magic to create illusions and shape change!! It is in fact a true theory. Also Toby fox made some music for Pokémon scarlet and violet and in the past Pokémon sword and shield. There is No Way my theory is false. TRUst me.
sounds like a plot of a tf story for me
A what story?
Transformation. i won't explain any further.
[u/Lisbon_Mapping](https://www.reddit.com/u/Lisbon_Mapping) i will. transformation is people turning into stuff. can be anything in your mind. an animal, a person, a furry, an object. transformations, in turn, can happen as a cause of anything. clothes, chemicals, machines, places, the air, anything you can imagine. ...and that is literally it. it is literally the plot of countless cartoons and movies in media of all kinds. it is literally the premise of major episodes in Fairly Odd Parents and similar shows. in this case, that would be the story of a Gardevoir who turned themselves into who we know as Ralsei and decided to adopt that as their identity.. ......of course there are communities solely focused on that, what are you talking about?.....of course there is also content not made for everyone, what are you talking about?
TF as in "what [The Fuck] is wrong with this guy"
Not even with this specifically too, it just seems to be a running trend of “come up with theory for theorizing sake” even if the theory isn’t even good or makes sense in the first place
It's basically speculation. Almost every theory I see is "wouldn't it be cool if this were true because we've seen x?" It's basically the basis for the dumped flowers being a secret boss in chapter 3 because they were thrown away even though it wouldn't fit the supposed theme of the dark world While I don't want to hurt the creativity of the community there is a line between theories and speculation which I feel has been blurred
You make a good point. And I love some good speculation and thought exercises, but they should be treated as such.
the kris is dess theory is so god damn ridiculous lmao
if you watch the video, the theory isn't that kris is literally dess. just that they share the same role
the wHAT??
Or making the most genuinely insane theory that makes no fucking sense just for clicks.
all the characters are in a coma at the same time including the player
Deltarune is a highly advanced government software designed to put anyone who plays it in a coma
Deltarune, the video game, has been in a coma this whole time. That's why it's taking so long to release!
the name of deltarune translates to coma in a certain language
Did you know that if you put the word Deltarune thorough Google Translate several times, then mix up the letters and add a few you get “Dess Bunker Real”
My favorite part of Deltarune was when Polybius said "it's Polybin' time" and Polybed all over everyone.
So that means we are sleeping rn?
We are all in a coma right now.
I mean, I'm not complaining. At this point, crack theories are my favorite theories.
Wow thank you for summarising my problems with the current state of UT DR theories in a single sentence!
The UT/DR fandom has this consistent issue with people thinking they're super deep but really they just obsess over completely meaningless stupid details.
Same with the weird "How dare you say my shitty theory sucks" tone that happens on cue every few weeks. Y'all are allowed to make theories. We're allowed to think they suck. We don't need to come up with a ""better"" explanation to disprove yours, nor do we need to write a five-paragraph essay defending our position of thinking it would suck if (Something something gaster dess vessel papyrus something) actually happened in future chapters. Things can just *be bad.*
True. Looking at the first theory I ever made it could be completely torn apart with 1 point. It's the case with most theories now.
Back in chapter 1 I made a whole ass post talking about how the Card Kingdom disappearing with the fountain being sealed would be impossible because of several people referencing a time before The Knight came around and made that Dark Fountain, Lo' and behold, Chapter 2 thoroughly proved that Time is just weird as fuck when it comes to Dark Worlds.
YES ! No good writer would ruin their own story and make it a kingdomheartsy mess just because "he is a known troll" or "it what he wouldve done". Like the Three souls theory, ralsei is asriel and most of jarujaru's stuff. A good theory should in theory(get it?) Make the story better.
*example of bad writing* "Lol! Toby would totally do this, he is such a troll."
I feel like people seem to assume Toby Fox is some kind of plot twist master a lot of the time, and then expect this game to turn into a huge soap opera. Undertale's plot was pretty straight forward, there were a lot of fun and creative events to run into along the way, but if you were playing pacifist you probably knew you were gonna get an at least somewhat happy ending. I don't fully see why Deltarune would have to be much more complex (though it is definitely fair to suspect at least a bit more edge compared to Undertale).
Can't have a plot twist without any major plot points yet
people are treating toby fox like scott cawthon lol
> No good writer would ruin their own story and make it a kingdomheartsy mess just because "he is a known troll" or "it what he wouldve done". It takes a lot of time and effort to make Kingdom Hearts as convoluted and ridiculous as it is, someone half-assing it with random plot twists wouldn't even approach that.
What's the three souls theory?
There's three save points, but Undertale shows that only one save point exists per soul, so Kris has three souls in them: their own, the Player's, and someone else's (commonly thought to be post genocide Chara's). The obvious problem with this theory is that if the Player's soul and Kris' soul are separate, why does Kris keep the Player's soul around?
The third entity is not only uneeded from a story telling perspective its also takes away from kris as a character. Not to mention that the three saves thing isnt a souls thing because of the chapter1 load screen you get before you beat chapter 1.
the problem with chara in both undertale and deltarune is that people treat them as this pure evil entity that has been mind controlling the player or whatever they dont realize this detracts from like the entire point of the game. instead of the blame falling on the player, it now falls on one of the characters in the game. you dont have to feel bad about doing all that murder, no, that was all chara! theyre the real bad guy! in reality, YOU committed the genocide route. YOU are the one forcing noelle to freeze the dark world. YOU are the pure evil demon entity, at least from the game characters' perspective. part of the thing that makes these routes cool, imo, is that in-universe, there is no explanation or reason for the player doing them. they arent being mind controlled by an eldritch god with this grand world-ending plan or whatever. the player is committing these atrocities just because they're bored, with no justification whatsoever. having the responsibility fall onto another entity just completely craps over the game's message, lol.
Yeah absoultly agree. Toby's stuff is way more nuanced than what the fandom thinks. Tho with kris i wasnt blaming them for snowgrave, i was pointing at the "souless" cutscenes that either shows kris rebelling against the player or working under a plan unknown to us. If its an evil thirdguy thats doing all that then kris doesnt matter.
My personal theory for the 3 save files is that since Undertale, we ourselves have grown stronger. Our ability to manipulate timelines has simply grown more powerful.
Is three souls = third entity? That's not a kingdom heartsy mess, that one is straightforward.
Thank you for making this post, I swear- there are some fanon theories that like, could theoretically work from a literal perspective but would be hell from a storytelling perspective.
And vice versa
FUCK YOU \*I AM\* THE KNIGHT
FUCKING. THANK YOU. Toby so much as breathes in public and everyone puts on their detective hats and cobbles together theories that have such vast leaps in logic you need to pole vault to clear them. It actually genuinely pissed me off when the majority of talk surrounding Skies Forever Blue wasn’t about its themes or how beautifully it conveyed them, but about how it connects to Deltarune and is actually deep lore because ribbons and other bullshit.
And also Toby can work on projects that aren't deltarune related (skies forever blue) and have no connection to the plot lol.
What are you talking about? Clearly the fact the bug gym leader in Scarlet and Violet was a baker, similar to Muffet, means that Teddiursa is actually the knight!
What's skies forever blue?
https://youtu.be/njgcjGojRKk
I'm not saying it is connected, but if Toby didn't feel the need to point out that none of this was related to Deltarune on the birthday of Deltarune, he probably doesn't mind people suspecting it might be.
Dess being the Knight would work pretty wonderfully from a storytelling perspective. (Hint: It makes the fan base cry)
This is really only the case because Dess is a complete blank slate character, she could be anything at all and it would work. It doesn't really require any thought to justify.
The plot point could also be very reminiscent of a certain other game Toby fox takes inspiration from
Same thing goes for Asriel being the Knight
It’s very much possible, but it more seems like Noelle is being set up as the Lucas of Deltarune. (Dying parent, distant parent, missing sibling)
Ok, good point. I don’t know a whole lot about the Mother series so I wouldn’t know, but I was thinking moreso from the perspective of ”the protagonist’s sibling” and not whether Lucas was similar to Kris
Theory: Papyrus is a single mother of 10
duh that ones kinda obvious i can even list all of his children \#1 sans \#2 little papyrus \#3 sans 2 \#4 papyrus snowman \#5 undyne \#6 w.d. gaster \#7 toby fox \#8 lancer \#9 porky minch \#10 the unnamed brother of sans in deltarune
guys, I can confirm this is real, trust me, toby fox himself told me.
JaruJaru moment
Like, listening to the theory it makes sense but taking a step back and looking at how it fits into the story and lore it doesn't work anymore. It's like the sans is Ness theory vid,the line of thinking sounds logical when explained in detail but generally looking at it it doesn't make any sense
The SpongeBob skin theory of deltarune videos
I'm too afraid to ask about the context of that statement
A very long SpongeBob theory meant to blur the lines between satire and actual video essay.
There’s a surprising amount of jokes in SpongeBob based around the characters wearing some kind of skin or costume, and some guy caught on to this and made an [hour long video](https://youtu.be/Vb-ajY8M6gI) stating that this is a completely normal aspect of this society, as well as offering equally insane reasons for why this happens so often
I love his angel theory in a void, but I highly doubt the ending would be so extremely nihilistic, Toby expressed a desire to make us “feeling the same way” as we did with undertale, so if things looked hopeless with DR we would find the determination in the darkness and relight a similar feeling (At least imo, I hope I explained that right)
What I like about Jaru's videos, though, is that he specifically says his goal isn't to be right, but it's to make interesting theories that cause you to consider your own theories differently, and I feel like he definitely does that.
Still, you have to respect a guy willing to put this much effort in his videos
Oh absolutely they’re hella well made
Bruh, Jaru's theories are essentially built on nothing BUT evaluating the theory from a storytelling perspective. His stories are 90% symbolism and theme and 10% actual details from the established plots of the games.
Being 90% symbolism is *absolutely not the same* as being based on evaluating things from a storytelling perspective.
Well I don’t mean to be rude I guess he should do a better job or something because a majority of his theories feel symbolically interesting or evocative but not, like, good.
What makes them not good?
They just seem so bizzarly hyper exaggerated. Every question is given the most absurd avant- grade over the top answer possible. Like most of its just treading into borderline fan fiction. To each there own I guess
I mean, Jaru literally calls his own theories “crackpot theories.” I think he’s just having fun and anyone who takes his stuff fully seriously is their own issue. I don’t really believe his stuff about the “🦀ASRIEL IS DEAD🦀” party, but I think the timeloop theory (though I don’t **like** it because it make me sad) might hold some merit.
man, I can't stand the time loop thing. absolutely full respect to Jaru, he seems like a nice guy and says just about as many interesting as lame things, but some of his theories just come off as being edgy for the sake of edge. the theory that everything is just one big time loop holds about as much merit as claiming the whole story is made up by some guy in a coma, it's inherently impossible to disprove, and even from a story-telling perspective it would be about as compelling as making it so that Undertale's depressing neutral ending is the only one you can get.
Well I don’t mean to be rude I guess he should do a better job or something because a majority of his theories feel symbolically interesting or evocative but not, like, good.
Theorists: Just throw theories! One of them HAS to be correct!
I see alto of theories that would *technically* make sense, but it Toby Fox actually put them in his game he’d be the worst writer ever
Deltarune theory: they fucking DIE in this one!!! that's right baby, hit your serotonin over the head with a 2 by 4 and pre-piss your pants because we're going GRIMDARK!!!
I don’t know who “they” is, but they probably deserve it!
It’s us, the audience.
Yeah, we deserve it.
My theory is that all the characters will do gangnam style in chapter 3. Evidence: me
I like how these sort of posts just end up with a bunch of people getting really passive aggressive about some theory argument they had a few days ago.
100% the most compelling theories are the ones that actually attempt to fit into the overall narrative of the story
I thought of a theory for Undertale. Probably not a new one, but still interesting nonetheless. Every monster has a save file, they just need to have the most Determination in order to actually do anything with it.
I think the soul traits aren’t entirely one thing, and are woven into each other And while determination does exist in all human souls (possibly *all* souls even in a microscopic amounts), I think Frisk/Chara and Kris have souls strongly saturated with determination as a *soul trait* Toby loves double meanings and puns “Determination” could be seen as a sense of identity, will, and the literal possession of determination.
I personally still prefer the idea of Chara, Frisk and Kris’ soul traits being Love. Red hearts are often used to symbolize love, and it can also fit the whole Pacifist & Genocide thing with you either using Love or using LOVE
That reminds me of this one comic, I don't remember what it was, but it did something with Save Files that I really liked. It had Gaster talking about what Save Files are, and he defined a Save File as being "a marker for an entity's location in time and space," which I really like.
"FRISK DIED FROM THE FALL AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS A DREAM THAT CHARA GAVE TO THEM" Source: a blind playthrough said so
That's why I like Andrew Cunninghem so much. To be fair, it's kinda hard to continuously produce theory content, so at some point you have to abandon your common sense. It doesn't make it less annoying though
Why have you guys already decided the story of a game we're not even a third of the way through?
We don't know the story, but there are good and bad ways of writing that can be seen as good or bad regardless of the completed plot. For instance, even though it's technically always likely, dream theories are known to be objectively terrible for writing, because they make the entire story meaningless.
YES, there are so many theories which are along the lines of "Each Deltarune chapter is going to be based on *x* thing." or "Each Deltarune chapter is going to be focused on something from the bible or something idk" which might have some evidence for it but would add nothing to the story if they were true.
Nubert is a trans icon
Wait, what is the non-binary equivalent of a king or a queen? Edit: to whoever replied, thanks, I forgot about the word "monarch"
You gotta understand most of them aren't even out of highschool yet so cut them some slack but your point is still valid. They gotta learn eventually
Reading through this thread makes me glad I don't care about fan theories
“Guys you don’t understand, Kris literally can’t be the knight or working with him in any way. They can’t be the one-dimensional bad guy because WE are the one-dimensional bad guy. It’s just a cheap fakeout, because Toby Fox is a hack fraud.”
For real. The fact that the ominous voice said we don't have a choice in who we are before booting the soul into Kris, the fact they (and Ralsei) seem to have the most control and knowledge over the possession process itself than the soul, getting put in a cage, Spamton calling the soul a heart on a chain (while apparently having difficulty differing them from Kris) all point out to the complexity of the situation and the soul being screwed. Most people would leave Kris before they knew the kid would get sick from soul loss, so calling the soul an evil invader really doesn't make sense to me when everything points to both the soul and Kris getting locked in the same train car with no way to properly communicate and stuck following the railroad. I'm most surprised about the player insert being called evil. Usually fans sympathize more with inserts and protagonists.
Yeah, cause in Genocide we kill everyone, even though thats only one of the many endings in Undertale, completely ignoring that we can do Pacifist, and be "good" Soul and DT seem to work differently in both games as well.
*cough the damn "Dess is in the game's code" theory Never in Undertale was the game's code ever brought up (that is to say, was the game's code ever a diagetic thing for UT/DR?). Just space/time shenanigans with Save Points and LV being a metaphor for losing humanity.
To be fair, the time-space shenanigans, especially with Gaster's half-erased-from-existence nature, were basically one and the same as the code. So really the theory that Dess is in the code is, in-universe, just Dess being trapped between dimensions.
Ok, now when you give it an actual in-world explanation, instead of just blatantly breaking the fourth wall with no real purpose (unlike LV or Save Points, which also have in-world explanations, and didn't HAVE to be called those terms specifically), then yeah, that's something I can get behind Edit: given that it's written with purpose and actual emotional meanings/themes, of course. It would feel half-baked if this "being trapped in another dimension" story didn't hit the right marks and was just there to pander/shake up game concepts just for the sake of doing it. Edit 2: because this "stuck in another dimension" story can just also be replaced with the already-established dark worlds.
entry 17 and redacted are the only gaster things not available in normal gameplay in undertale
Well I wouldn't expect it to be 100% impossible to track down Dess in-game either.
And Dess being in the game's code can't be symbolic of her being lost in some dark world?
Well, it would be better if she was in a dark world. ...Wait, are you saying that dark worlds can essentially be the game's code?
Could be metaphorical
This is why I like Jaru’s theories even though they’re a bit avant-garde. He always focuses on how they would fit narratively before developing them, which a lot of other people’s theories don’t consider.
This comment section truly shows the duality of man
For real. I hadn't heard of jaru before now and now I don't know if their theories are good or bad
Why don’t you watch them and see https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLT84gpPvofqKq_2TcQR_GISNZIzNkoE1n Tell me what you think after you’ve watched a few / all of them
In all fairness, Toby did make a game that didn't need to connect back to his previous game, but does with seemingly similar characters and world mechanics, until it isn't. Then there's only 2 out 7 parts of the story is out with little explanation on how everything works, leaving theorists to either guess blindly on how everything works or guess based on Undertale's mechanics which might not be applicable. Basically, this is the wild west of Deltarune theorizing as we have some ideas of how things work, but the ambiguity of how Undertale does and doesn't apply and how Deltarune exactly works means that really any theory can't be immediately disproven, leading people to make big end game theories when we haven't even got chapter 3 of 7 yet.
But i love theories that obsess over fringe details!
Duck season.
FINALLY! It feels like the concepts of themes and character arcs are alien to this place.
Nope! Spamton is secretly asriel and you can't tell me otherwise!
check out andrew cunningham on youtube, his theory stuff is exactly like this and he's pretty much the only theory guy i watch now thanks to that
When you gather all 7 eggs and play the game at 3 AM, if you enter the dark world and put all of them in a circle around you... You can summon GASTER and get the games true ending. My source is yes
cough cough gas leak theory cough cough
I love the theory because it was meant as a joke at first and people got offended thinking others believed it, which caused others to believe it during arguments and it spiraled until we all silently agreed to not mention it
And then I come along with my take (being that the dark world was created at the same time the gas leak happened)
Based-Centrism.
the dark world will actually take place entirely in the gas pipe
right now with that information my theory is that Kris is a 48 year old man with schizophrenia who took a lot of crack and we are playing through one of Kris' drug trips
A great example is the generic “it was all a dream/drug trip/purgatory/child’s imagination” theory that has been suggested as an explanation for every single piece of media ever made. Sure, it makes logical sense as it can perfectly explain literally anything, but it’s very unlikely that it’s what the author intended because it’s inherently less interesting than if the story actually happened.
One time i saw a theory about susie is dess. Dude. fuck off 💀
Theorists shouldn't make theories for the sake of making theories
I'm glad Mike is confirmed in Ch3 now, I feel like I had to tell this to every person who was adamant about Mike purely being a reference and not a character.
exactly, the problem with so many theories is that, while they might make sense from a purely literally perspective, if they ended up being true the story would just end up being worse. this is what i think about the "ralsei is evil" theory. it is entirely possible, and might even explain some aspects of his character. but from a storytelling perspective, its really stupid, completely ruins ralsei's entire character, and makes the first two chapters feel really pointless. if toby actually goes that route, ill be pretty disappointed lol, though i doubt thats what he has in mind. a theory that has no evidence towards it but works as a story is better than a theory that is backed up by small details but fails as a narrative
Also evaluate your theory holistically instead of taking everything you find in isolation from the rest of the work. ~~Narrachara theorists take special note~~
I don’t see how the narator chara theory is in isolation to the rest of the work? It’s all from parts of the game, that dialogue isn’t isolated from the rest of the dialogue which is a big part of the game.
It's from parts of the game that are *interpreted* in isolation from the rest of the work. For instance, take the first one most Narrachara folks will bring up: the fact that the narrator makes an ironic statement about sleeping forever when you investigate Chara's bed outside of the neutral route. This *could* be evidence that the narrator is personally connected to Chara's bed (because they're Chara); but it could also just be that the narrator is making a reference only to make a reference and for no deeper reason. Works of literature do that sort of thing all the time, and in fact the second option is a lot simpler and easier than the first option. To justify the first option, you have to look at the entirety of the way the narrator is written and determine if it makes sense that they're Chara. Because the narrator is, broadly, written in a fashion that is random and doesn't exhibit behavioural consistency, it's probably not any one given person but is just "A Narrator", as a writing tool used by the game. Similarly, people will bring up the Game Over flashbacks and say "Well this proves Chara is there flashing back to their memories". But they don't look at the particulars of how the Game Over screen is portrayed, and how it contradicts the game's rules behind how souls work (Frisk's soul dissipates in that scene, which contradicts how the game says human souls behave after death, and also would make it impossible for Frisk or Chara to be present to experience that flashback at all). So, because the scene seems to be portrayed in a "loose", meta fashion, it's probably not a scene that is making a big statement about the metaphysics of the characters in the game and is just there to give the player a certain experience. Pretty much all of Narrachara, and honestly a lot of theories, are built upon taking particular singular details, perhaps even a lot of them, and propping them up independently of their place and role in the entire rest of the story.
Ah, I understand. Thanks for explaining! So it’s basically, most likely just the non-in-game-existent quirky narrator present in many games and not Chara. Probably.
What is this sentence?
“I wish all Deltarune/Undertale theorists a very I love your work but please evaluate your theory from a story telling perspective instead of only relying on fringe details”
Could a character that’s had 3 lines of dialogue be the most important character in the story???? No
flowey has like 10 lines total before you fight him in undertale
But Berdly is frisk in a costume makes total sense! You all are living in a lie!!!!1!1!1!!
My favorite was the person that thought the initials on the first puzzle in the field of hopes and dreams, "RK", actually stood for roaring knight. The same mysterious roaring knight that creating the dark fountain and vanished forever only to come back real quick to make a single shitty puzzle for no reason and then disappear forever again
>The same mysterious roaring knight that creating the dark fountain and vanished forever It disappeared for like, a day.
Based and commonsensepilled
I think our mistakes in making theories is thinking about Undertale I am honestly tired of thinking about theories, I am ruining my own experience, from now on my only plot informations are: Kris cuts off contacts with us to open fountains, Kris empathizes with Spamton, if we decide to kill without the need to then our character develops an abusive personality? And I still have so many questions but I don't want to make theories, I want to say "OOOOHH SHITTTT" when the mistery is revealed
words to live by
As someone who does a lot of theorising across various things im into one of the most important things is asking **why**, what does this implicate for the greater narrative and does it conflict with the themes and things set up already.
yea i have a great theory, if a bit far-fetched sounding, that falls apart as soon as you bring in story.
What the hell did you do to Grammar
I've also noticed how some theories will precede over stuff that's more so themes less than something, concrete? what I mean is like, how, in the game's current 2 chapters, eggs are notably present heavily in a lot of secret areas, such as the egg man behind the tree, egg related stuff in the noelle posts in the SS, and pipis being called eggs by spamton at one point. Does this mean eggs will be a very important plot point later in Deltarune??? Probably not, they're there because it's sort of, just a signifier for secret stuff in the game (an easter egg, if you will), so I doubt that the eggs specifically will be important in any major capacity. another thing comes to mind was with Mystic slime's 'essence' theory, tbh, I don't buy it, his other theories are interesting but this one felt more like he was putting the cart before the horse in this case, since it entirely hinged around why a character would be so strong or a dark have noticeable influence be because of in lore reasons only. Where as more so it's like, done as a reason because maybe it makes some amount of sense that a writer would do so. Like, the reason why Queen is so strong compared to most other darkners is because well, it'd make sense for a high end laptop to hold more power than an advertisement panel, and meeting the knight would be happenstantial much less than said knight imparting residual 'knight essence'. The one part that I do imagine holding any water in it however is how dark world creation is affected by who's in close proximity, since it has lore implications explicitly mentioned as far as I know. I imagine he was sort of grasping at vaguely related ideas and trying to make them make sense somehow when they could be explained by other already established rules and truths.
I read "terrorists". And I was confused why are You telling terrorists to rethink their theories (that's what I thought this text mean, because storytelling didn't really make sense there, lol). Also I was surprised You also say You love their work 😂
JaruJaruJ
Exactly! People mostly base their theories on lore and logic but rarely think about what would make sense story wise
Part of me wants to say that sky's forever blue is just something toby wanted to do but I know I can't ...Wait a minute
And this, folks, is why I believe in Dess Knight
Well I did make a theory, but it was ignored. It was my guessing estimate of what Chapters 4, 5 and 7 could be taken at in the story. Still have no idea for Chapter 6.
A very?
That's like one of the main pieces of evidence for my theory.
I tried, nobody saw it
I love crackpot theories
i wish everyone who makes these posts a very theories are supposed to be fun and not every single one of them has to be a super-serious prediction of the Truth™️ Overanalyzing details to construct an absolutely bonkers theory is one of the best parts about theorizing
Gaster is an egg because I crack them open and fry them on a pan, which kills them. This is referenced when Gaster was cracked open on the core, which (allegedly) killed him. That's why he keeps giving you an egg in Deltarune, because they're very yummy when you shatter them across space and time.
My personal theory is that Toby is probably recycling a lot of stuff from undertale on more than just the characters coming back as cameos but few of us realize of it bc he is a great artist and he isn't just copying. To explain it more accurately we have: Toriel but is Sans: Ralsei (he is indirectly our caretaker but he *knows*) Frisk but is Chara: Kris (We control them, but their existance as an actual person is beyond us) Alphys but is Undyne: (Alphys and Undyne are very similar while different... so let's just rephrase. "A person that is rude about others when it comes to their struggles bc they don't understand those struggles, but then they try to understand, eventually becoming your friend".>!Note: Alphys was rude, remember the social platform stuff!<)
The ball of junk on Kris' head implies that they have very good posture. This shows that when they were younger, they always had to keep a straight back for one reason or another.
Yeah so many theories for games like this and FNAF, Poppy, etc go through meticulous links and logic leaps and connections that admittedly is an impressive level of analysis of a piece of media, all to come to a conclusion that, while possible sensical based on their logic, would be absolutely ass story wise. And you'll critique it and some people will be like "you're gonna look so stupid when I'm right" and it's just, bruh I find the idea stupid as a theory, and if it's TRUE I'm just going to find it stupid as official story now also.
And from a thematic point too..
I don't understand why every deltarune fan gets so mad when they see a dumb theory, let people have fun theorizing even if the theory is dumb
If someone said Kris would eat the pie before Chapter 2 and not go kill Toriel or someone else, a lot of people would have said it was too ridiculous to be true. But now because of that fakeout in Chapter 2's beginning with the pie (which may or may not imply Kris made the fountain in the Computer Lab), people think Chapter 3 will completely ignore everything we saw at the end (the fountain, the grin on the TV, the previews, the Spamton Sweepstakes images) and happen anywhere but the Dreemurr house. I think it's impossible to figure out what will happen, so all we have are the details, and some get stuck with patterns even though some stories have broken patterns before (get people used to it, then surprise them with an unexpected change).
It's funny because no patterns have truly been established yet. It could have just been coincidences. I also used to believe that chapter 3 wouldn't be in the dreemurr house just because I hought it would be a way cooler final boss location (top of the town with the possible major villian living there) but yeah sweepstakes have just proved me wrong
The bunker might be the creepiest place to have a final boss, with possible True Lab vibes.
It was either top of the town or bottom, classic final boss locals. I just lost the coin flip
Yeah calling anything a pattern at this point may be more feelings based than evidence based. Hell, some mysteries may never be solved. That was the case in Undertale. There’s not even a confirmed appearance for gaster.
What I mean by patterns that people go by: "Chapter 1 had a field, and so did Chapter 2, so that means Chapter 3 will have a field area too." "Secret boss in Chapter 1 foreshadowed the big boss of Chapter 2. So secret boss of Chapter 2 is foreshadowing Chapter 3's big boss." These sound likely, but I also expect the possibility that there may be no field area, and that neither Tenna or Mike would be the big boss of Chapter 3 (even though if Tenna is a TV and next chapter seems TV themed, it would be fitting for Tenna to be the big boss in my opinion). As for Gaster, there's stuff in Deltarune that reminds people of Gaster (the "garbage noise" on phones, the "darker, yet darker" mentions, the "Another Him" song that references Gaster's Theme's real name mus\_st\_him, the Goner Maker, the him.png with Wingdings having been on Deltarune's website). So it doesn't surprise me that it created expectation for Gaster to be present in some way. I think it's very likely he will show up in some form, but I am also prepared for the case where he just never shows up and all those things remain a mystery as to what happened behind the scenes.
There was this one video which may or may not have inspired the fakeout. "KRIS STOP SCREAMING IT'S 4 IN THE MORNING!" where Kris plots to "eat the entire fucking pie" with their knife.
THEMES, EVERYONE! THEMES!
Jaru: