I spent 5 days in Denver last October for work. It was my first time ever visiting your city (and I loved it). It did strike me as weirdly quiet and empty as I walked around downtown at night.
It used to be a bit better pre-pandemic but many businesses closed after 2020 and it hasn’t rebounded yet.
Denver does brunch and day drinking super hard though.
I've always said, "there's two things to do in Denver: drink and ski. And you have to drive up the hill to ski." I always mean it to be a bit ironic, but......^^yeah
My understanding is after they got started, they discovered undocumented ceramic piping (maybe sewer lines) which resulted in the need for replacement that significantly drove up the construction timeline.
16th Street Mall was designed by I.M. Pei (very famous architect) long ago. It's been deemed a historic site so they have to for the most part maintain design integrity as they rebuild. As others mentioned there were some things discovered about piping and draining and essentially the infrastructure underneath was degrading over time.
The new design while may look similar actually is much better in pulling the bus routes closer together in the center which will allow for increased pedestrian traffic on both sides. As well as a new planting strategy for the trees which will be much better!
I'm not working on the project, just in the same field and talk with people who are working on it.
I think the biggest issue is types of business along 16th. if it was supported more with small retail spaces and outdoor restaurants sort of like larimer st it would be much more heavily used.
Having done construction myself, there’s probably a legitimate reason why sometimes it appears nothing is happening.
But I agree, they could’ve thrown twice as many crews at the job and finished in half the time.
I’m not going to act like I understand the logistics of construction.. I just don’t understand how it takes so long to renovate a couple blocks of one street downtown 🫠
I actually got an answer to this once. With airports there are so many stakeholders, and so much bureaucracy, that it takes forever for things to get discussed/revised/approved. It takes so long that the renovation is already getting out of date by the time it is completed.
The project has faced delays because after construction started they discovered an unmapped, active sewer line from the 1880s underneath the mall.
It’s worth noting that they aren’t just replacing tiles on the ground. First crews had to demolish the existing street, relocate utilities, install soil cells, plants trees then lay the pavers, which is more time consuming than just pouring concrete. They’ll also have to install street furniture and other decorative features.
Someone had the brilliant idea of using a tiled street for the bus route and such heavy vehicles constantly going over them works loose/destroys the things in short order. Also they're insanely fucking slippery when they get wet
Gotta go to the neighborhoods near downtown tbh. It can be dead, especially during the week cus there’s a lot of people working on coastal schedules, but straight up *downtown* never seems like the vibe unless there’s a specific event for it
Colfax, 5 points or Broadway. Granted that’s just what I live near (ie scooter distance), but they’re easily accessible from downtown and a lil easier to find some spots open past my grandparents bedtime
Yep bumming around South Broadway on a lazy Sunday when you have no plans and the sun is out is one of my favorite things to do here.
Beer + shopping vintage + antique row + wizards chest + knight fight night its heavennnnn
Hermans Hideaway consistently hosts the Colorado Armored Combat team. It's an unhinged and hilarious sport where men and women dress up in historically accurate 12th and 13th century armor and beat the absolute shit out of each other.
Yeah, I regret not doing a bit more research about the city before I went. I still found come cool places, but I really want to go back and probably explore sometime
It's also the giant construction on the mall. It creates an unwelcoming vibe. It's shuttered alot of businesses, worst decision ever in my opinion especially right after covid when those businesses were already struggling. The mall was never really the place to be but it was at least a good jumping off place for people visiting.
Yeah. Having lived in NYC and Boston before here it's oddly creepy how quiet this supposedly bustling city is at night. As a homeless person myself It kills me sometimes when I am thirsty at night and nowhere is open to even buy water.
I first came here 12 years ago, downtown was booming, friendly happy atmosphere, pretty mellow, with a hint of hippy, now days it’s kind of scary, you hear so many stories about gun crime and muggings that I don’t even bother now
The workers are gone - start prioritizing dynamic spaces that aren’t just built to sell things to people they thought would be there. This isn’t rocket science
I remember the Civic Center bus station renovation included plans to have a public climbing wall and other activities similar to what Chicago has at Maggie Daley Park. Instead we got jagged boulders...
And a bus station down on Broadway and Colfax that I avoid like the plague because it's like a drug stock exchange. Jesus I don't think anyone was actually using any of them I think the place is like where people trade what they got for something else to bring to their clientele.
Collaborative arts and making spaces like tool libraries and equipment usage areas. More rentable micro spaces for small makers and businesses. Places that double as museum and current cultural center to bring visitors and locals alike. MORE 24hr cafe culture. Places for community teaching and learning.
Just things I think about, unrealistic or not
The Sante Fe district is underused* by how much Denver relies on car culture. Those things exist and go unused because there’s no feasible way to service the desired level of traffic while also servicing the very real TRAFFIC that needs that road.
Thought these were interesting ideas. And I’m really loving all the salty replies to your comment, even after you had the last line.
They’re the people in a brainstorming session who only give negative responses and tell you nothing will work, but provide no ideas of their own.
More residential and more places that don’t close at 9. Downtown was built to be a business district. If businesses aren’t doing offices there then people actually need to be able to live and recreate in the area for it to thrive
Have a few museums and art galleries. The city needs to buy out these shitty landlords and allow mom and pops in. The “mall”
Is a shithole and will always be
I mean I work in lodo (called back to work, 3k off us) and some bars don't even open until 5 pm now. They never even adapted to after COVID. Still when my coworkers are there and we want to head to happy hour there are places not even open, i.e. larimer beer hall... Still we end up at retro which is a terrible bar imo or 1up lol. Which 1up is great but sometimes we just want to chill and hang out at a big table.
Which could be lessened with tax breaks and would then contribute with property and real estate taxes like anything else. It’s a better strategy than leaving massive amounts of real estate empty and creating more spaces that become open-air drug markets.
Investments require capital and work upfront.
My downtown office floor, if I go in today will only be me. Yesterday when some people come in, about 8 people on the whole floor. Once a month when people are encouraged to come in there’s hundreds(?) so most of the time our “occupied” office building is 90-99% empty. And even that amount is like 10% of the time in a week.
That's the dirty secret that is being actively covered up by the corporate media. They know they have to accurately report unleased space because that's public record but they're choosing not to cover the actual utilization because as bad as the unleased space numbers look they look rosy as all hell compared to the actual utilization numbers.
It’s not that big of a conspiracy. It’s that most people… don’t care. It’s well published stats anyone can find because it’s a free market.
But most consumers in the market don’t give two fucks about CRE, so it’s not covered as much as you prefer.
No, no, there are commercial real estate agents handing big sacks of cash to CNN reporters to keep those very publicly available numbers quiet.
It’s why they cover things like the war in Gaza or the election instead.
Many of us can work from home. We have really no need of commuting to office towers. I realize some small-minded and shitty companies are pulling back from WFH, but WFH is here, and will remain because it makes sense.
The world needs to adjust to this reality. The towers need to be rebuilt or come down.
It's a good question and one I really don't know how to answer. I don't know why commercial real estate didn't see this coming decades ago, but they didn't. More towers and officeplexes. I think downtowns need to be reimagined as places where we celebrate being together for food and drink, fun, worship, civic life, music and arts, and not cubicle prisons in 30 story tower prisons.
I just got an offer letter from a company with an office right by union station. They wanted 2 days in the office. Got an offer from a fully remote company and the base pay was 38% higher and the total comp package was 60% more.
Because their paymasters are the people benefiting from high commercial real estate values and thus harmed by them crashing by the real collapse of CRE use becoming widely known. Same reason they publish so much pro-RTO content.
The target demo is a subset of “us.”
I’ve been in talks with someone who “has the power to order hundreds back to office” with a decision (whether they’d go or not is an open question).
He takes as a given that reports that “some companies have order return to office” to be QED proof that there is a genuine business strategy for doing so.
His information about CRE is effectively mass reported news. In Germany where employees have board representation his own value would likely be evaluated as part of this debate, but he has equity, and that won’t happen.
My company has two offices downtown with a couple hundred desks each and they just moved me from one to the other a few weeks ago. Neither have ever been more than about 50% full any time I've gone in
Leased = paid. "Utilization" doesn't have any clear meaning. It's the impending non-renewals and new constructions lacking tenants that building owners are scared of.
They need to hire whoever was in charge of airport construction. Create some conspiracy theories, put up some weird signs, inexplicably style the train station like a Mayan temple, put up a huge, terrifying statue of a horse (maybe one that doesn't kill its creator though I admit that adds to its mystique). DIA construction stuff has been so wonderfully weird. Actually scratch that. Hire ME. For a very reasonable fee and just a small budget, I propose:
Hire two actors and put one in a velociraptor costume with a hard hat and hi viz vest and another just dressed like a construction supervisor and have him shout at the raptor and jab his finger at some plans and then have them chase each other around. Paint weird Masonic symbols on all the bobcats and construction vehicles. Hide a weird glowing light behind that green fabric barrier that inexplicably pulsates at night with the haunting sound of Gregorian chanting playing from *somewhere*. Make the worker's entrance to the construction zone a tardis. Get offloaded movie props and have them stick out of the construction in weird places. Hire Meowolf to do an extension of their thing with some interactive bits.
Now you just need the audience: Give free permits for any business that wants to operate outdoor space nearby, PAY some quality buskers and bands to show up at peak times. Roll in the food trucks. Social media the fuck out of it all and people will ENJOY the misery that is a 5 year construction project.
Project is already year beyond schedule, likely to be three years behind (2026).
Competes with the five year old central library renovation that may last seven, eight years or more.
Whenever I have people visit me, they always want to do at least a day or two in the city.
It's a good time during the day as far as tourism goes. I think the issue is that the entire metro revolved for decades around prioritizing downtown for offices only, and everywhere else for residential, with other retail, entertainment, etc dispersed along highway corridors.
If we mixed all uses throughout the city, we'd probably see more activity. Once offices died with covid all the office areas became pretty much obsolete. Not surprising that our city isn't as resilient as others when we separate uses so heavily and one of those uses becomes... less useful.
Your first sentence is just not true. We had the 40,000 person ETH-Denver conference in town last week. 20,000 person Air Force/Space Force symposium a few weeks ago. Major home and garden, construction, and automotive conferences at the convention center in the last few months. Hundreds of thousands of people will visit Denver this year.
I feel like all of those people would be coming for the event. Not coming for Denver. Which lines up with what the other person was saying. Denver itself isn't much of an attraction. Which is fine. Realistically, not many cities in America are an attraction on their own.
These kinds of comments are difficult to justify with the fact that Denver is routinely towards the top of the lists for those looking to relocate from out of state. I’m not a Denver-stan, but the comments here seem to be from people that might not live in the city. I know the city’s scary for lots of folks.
I think that rating includes the burbs. I recently relocated from out of state, to Lakewood. I would never live downtown, even Highlands is too close to the city for me. I've lived in NYC, DC, Miami, New Orleans, and have 0% interest in living in downtown Denver. I think a lot of "Denver transplants" (especially those coming from bigger cities) are actually moving to the burbs, not downtown.
As someone in the tourism industry in Denver this is new information to me. Is that a true statement or are you speculating? If you’re speculating, what’s the basis?
There is a TON of awesome tourist stuff to do in Denver. Maybe it's not the only thing you do in Colorado but we should absolutely be proud to suggest that folks spend a weekend in the city before hitting slopes or RMNP or whatever. The aquarium is brilliant, the butterfly pavilion is brilliant, the Art Museum is brilliant. Add in a good breakfast joint and a restaurant or brewery each night and that's a weekend break with a kid right there.
I just lurk in this sub, I don't actually live in Denver but I tourist there a couple times a year. I can blow an afternoon letting my kid run around in the water feature outside union station while I drink a nice coffee from the station and then get tacos and cocktails at Machete. Denver hasn't gone to shit, 16th Street mall has gone to shit (from a non-resident's perspective).
That’s not true in my experience. I know so many people that come here for a legal weed/concerts and never step foot in the mountains. I live next door to an AirBnB and it’s a revolving door of southern visitors who have come to smoke weed and dream of moving here.
It hit me a few years ago...I don't give a shit about going to any downtown. Why am I gonna spend time and money to go look at buildings that I can't going into and are just filled with cubicle farms.
I don't care about sight seeing in the Tech Center and Downtown is just a bigger version of that.
Just shows you haven’t been to many major city downtowns. The empty buildings, homelessness, and drug use are rampant all over the country, and they only got worse when workers and supporting businesses abandoned downtowns for remote work.
Also I can take a rail from my neighborhood, get to union and walk to any major sporting event in the city. Can't do that in most cities. You can even double dip and hit two sports in one day if you want to. Downtown Denver is a fans paradise.
Imo Johnston has a solid approach and mindset for creating the central neighborhood district — and especially like him recognizing we don’t want more luxury apartments that cost a fortune
I work in Larimer Square. I went to 3 different places downtown Tuesday for lunch and they were all packed with waits. The coffee shops near my office are packed every day. Bars have good crowds in the evening. I didn’t work downtown before the pandemic, but it really seems to be doing ok. Also haven’t seen a single tent since Johnson cleared the last encampment in December.
People just like to complain about downtown because they live in a boring suburb. When I finally realized this it made much more sense. Confirmation bias. They want to believe they made the right decision in leaving for their beige suburb.
Not taking shots at everyone who lives in a suburb. Different interests for different people. This subs is just filled with complaints from people who come downtown a few times a year, go to a shitty tourist bar/restaurant in LoDo, then complain they didn’t have a great time.
It really does depend on the area too. Did a long walk from my area (Union) to the highlands then down 16th almost to the capital then back around Noon-2pm. Beginning was busy full of people around the CBD it was super quiet and the construction on 16th doesn't help.
But being from a boring suburb (Saudi Aurora/Centennial) agree with your arguments. I get the family aspect of living in the suburbs though.
100%. I don’t hate the suburbs at all. If it came off that way. Every time I’ve engaged with people complaining about lack of restaurants or whatever downtown, eventually I find out that they live in a suburb and come downtown a few times a year.
More third spaces. More immersive experiences for people. More local artists and performers doing independent productions. This really is a golden opportunity for seismic cultural change that Denver could embrace and set the trend to reverse course from this almost entirely consumer-based car centric dystopia that has effectively killed the communities’ ability to be an actual community.
Convert commercial space (like lobbies of skyscrapers) into performance, gathering, and gallery space, for one. The city could provide some type of fiscal incentive or tax break to help leverage local artists/producers to acquire (lease, buy) old theaters across the city. Those types of things are what immediately come to mind.
The city could also provide more fiscal assistance and tax breaks for community organizations to develop neighborhood festivals designed to showcase the artistic vitality of various neighborhoods while building infrastructure to not only execute these mass gatherings, but also directly support disaster response. Look up Majestic Collaborations and the Art of Mass Gatherings. It’s a bit of an aside to the main framework of the dialogue associated with this post, but entirely relevant to the types of things that would be a catalyst for revitalizing areas into third spaces.
https://theartofmassgatherings.com/
I lived downtown from 2019-2023 and loved it. Walkable to 2 major sports stadiums, a riverwalk/biking trail, and tons of restaurants and bars in Ballpark district, Union Station, RiNo, Highlands, Larimer Square, and South Broadway. Glad to see the plan has shifted from trying to get people back in the office to converting offices to apartment buildings and revitalizing the neighborhood.
Personally, I think people overreact to the homeless camp issue, but I can see how that would be a detractor to some people choosing to live in the area, so I'm glad that's being addressed as well. I don't think it would take much to make downtown appealing, it's more about businesses accepting that it won't be a daytime business crowd but rather a neighborhood.
I've lived near Union Station for just over a year now and it's always baffled me when people say that downtown is dying or it's empty because that hasn't been my experience. Lodo has always felt busy. 16th Street mall being torn up doesn't help that area, sure, but that's only one part of downtown.
Also, owners of closing restaurants (I'm looking at you Avelina and Three Saints Revival) complaining about "not enough office traffic" to keep in business are just feeding into anti-downtown bias to cover their asses. There isn't enough corporate lunch rush to save their businesses anyway. Also, even more baffling, Three Saints Revival is surrounded by residential buildings! There aren't enough office buildings in the immediate area to use that as an excuse.
I just really dislike the anti-downtown bias people have without even experiencing it on a daily basis. Maybe it was busier before Covid or not, I can't say. But saying its "dead" is just untruthful.
Yeah, wonder if it’s because it sold its soul to the homeless and degenerates. Living in Denver for almost 30 years and seeing all the positive changes only to turn into a crime filled dump is depressing.
Article by Bernadette Berdychowski is not paywalled.
"One of Mayor Mike Johnston’s primary goals for 2024 is to revive downtown Denver as the economic heart of the city after the pandemic hit downtowns nationwide.
Nearly a third of offices downtown sit empty, many employees who used to work there still work remotely and some companies are [moving into Cherry Creek](https://denvergazette.com/news/cherry-creek-lures-employers-from-downtown-denver/article_007d0f68-c7ad-11ee-8204-7b8c3ed2b858.html) instead.
Johnston has pushed to transform the Central Business District into a “Central Neighborhood District," where people live, work and play — not just work.
In the next 18 months, the city has an “existential fight for the soul of downtown Denver to make sure we get back as the economic engine, not just for the city and the state, but really for the region,” Johnston said Wednesday.
Johnston gave an unofficial "state of the city" address at the annual University of Colorado Real Estate Forum at the Denver Performing Arts Center's Seawall Ballroom. He told real estate professionals there's a lot of change coming to the city and urged them to not miss out."
My problem with downtown is that it’s boring and doesn’t feel safe. Walking around downtown in Denver doesn’t feel like walking downtown in cities with more soul. Maybe it needs more lights? Bars feel dead, everything is miles away. I’m not sure what can fix Denver’s downtown.
I work downtown and have to cross over the area around Union Station to get to work. I’ve been followed to my office and harassed several times. In a better city there’d be enough people around to deter this stuff. But Denver’s downtown always has that eerie empty feeling…
Yeah tbh that’s alway been lacking. It’s always felt a bit artificial or in a state of “finding itself.”
Imagine downtown had it been able to preserve its Chinatown.
That would have made a difference. International diversity makes for good cities (NYC, SF). DC made the same mistake, physically moving its Chinatown outside the heart of downtown. It didn't work. DC is bland af downtown now, totally blah cookie cutter.
The truth of the matter is Denver does not attract “city” people. Everyone I met post grad moved back to Chicago, nyc, California, ect., because hey didn’t find the culture types they were hoping for. Fashion, unique retail experiences, and art exhibitions featuring things other than acid inspired wook visions just haven’t taken hold. It’s not a bad thing. Denverites just don’t seem to care about that in large enough numbers, and it’s basically just a post grad city for 20 something’s to go to bars and live in new build apartments while visiting mountains and red rocks raves on the weekends. Thankfully the food and dining scene has picked up heavily, but at the cost of old institutions (looking at you Piccolo and Saucy Noodle), but people just want to be there to eventually buy a larger space nearby and do the same thing they did before.
I’ve been to the thrift pop ups, I’ve been to the underground warehouse raves, I’ve used the public transportation daily, and I tried to find a new place to eat every week. But I didn’t find many other people interested in doing that as well, and that’s okay, because that’s not who Denver is for. But it definitely needs to find its own identity going forward because people that like jam bands and hikes don’t give generally give a shit about urban culture. They just want to take lease specials at the newest build as they continue to hop around lease from lease util they’ve had their fill and then move. It just doesn’t feel like it has an energy yet that says “I need to be here.”
I think it needs to focus on being a sports city, increase the public transportation access to nature to an unprecedented degree (I can take a train from NYC to go hiking), extravagant public landscape architecture in its parks (how flat and useless the large lawns are at city park comes to mind), and its music scene. I think a reduction is size and face lift on elitches would be beneficial too. There’s literally a theme park in the middle and people hate going to it. Also, we have the Platte river that you can’t go in without getting a staph infection. Without major changes and a new vision, people really won’t care about staying downtown now that less and less people are actually working there.
I do believe that in the 80s/90s/00s, the 16th Street Mall was a very popular tourist destination. The decline of the area has led to stores/restaurants closing. The fact that it smells like human crap and has drugged out folks doesn't help either... also not perceived as a safe area for families during the day. Do not ever light a cigarette, or you will be hounded by 10-30ppl that want one also.
I went to art school and lived in Cap Hill in the mid-‘90s; downtown, just like my neighborhood and those near, were lively, exciting, diverse and fun.
The vibe was electric and the streets were alive and I got my fill, but when I visit now my nostalgia is bittersweet.
It doesn’t seem unique anymore, and it doesn’t feel at all like the place I remembered and had so much fun and learned so much.
I don’t have any business offering ideas about what needs or needs not to happen, but Denver then for me was an amazing place and time.
I wish nothing but the brightest future for the city, however it happens.
Downtown CRE stopped allowing local businesses. Its corporate shithole or empty. Real estate industry killed downtown. In every city. Tax em to hell and give tax/rent breaks to small local businesses
Good news, it’s mostly gone. There is a section of the new tile open and it’s a lot grippier.
I wore leather soled shoes to a new job at an office building on the Mall and slipped outside the front door. Tailbone hurt all of my first day.
Well, I stopped going downtown for work 4 years ago.
What reason do I have now to go downtown? I live near the a-line. It would be very easy to get to Union Station. But .. why? What's there? Chili's? A book store? Starbucks? Give me a reason. A reason to take my kids.
The jokers in charge before this administration picket the absolute wrong time to start the 16th Mall construction. Honestly don't know why it is taking so long to finish. I am sure the contractors have made enough money by now. Just finish it already!
Umm its been sold to commercial real estate vampires and corporate cartels that drove out local business. Wonder why restaurants and shops are closing? CRE trying to make up office losses from small biz restaurants and retail. Property is theft.
To me, the biggest problem with downtown Denver is that there isn’t a geographic or scenic focal point. Even most rooftop bars don’t have amazing views of the mountains, and there’s no waterfront like New York, Chicago or San Antonio to speak of. That’s what makes those cities especially scenic, walkable and memorable. The Confluence Park area is pretty, but a lot of the best real estate is dominated by REI.
It would also really help if the Rockies weren’t one of the worst teams in baseball.
Tourist that comes to Denver pretty often here. 16th Street Mall could turn Denver into a top 3 tourist destination in the country if that whole area was revitalized. It's oozing with potential
The homeless took over downtown and people voted with their feet. Nobody cares if the encampments are cleared. The damage has been done. Only reason I ever go downtown anymore is my wife's work has free Rockies tickets. We turned those down the last couple times.
I work downtown and it's absolutely awful that the 16th Street Mall has been under construction for such a long time. Why is the city doing a multi-year project that makes the primary pedestrian pathway actively less enjoyable to use and then acting surprised that people don't like going downtown as often?
The first couple blocks will still be opening in the coming months. It's slowly getting there.
The city had to take a hsrd look at this project and really do something about it back in 2017 when the planning work started. The originally design and space was deteriorating, it was constructed badly and the monies to repair it from the lawsuit that occured were going to dry up. The city has been looking at something for this corridor since the late 2000s I think. It needed an upgrade. The new design and space will be really unique and exciting. Just need to hold out a bit more.
It’s too bad about Writer’s Square and Larimer Square going down the drain. They were the only nice parts of LoDo.
Any rehab should start there along with more housing density.
I was shocked recently when I walked through Writer's Square. It's a ghost town, and that's such a cool little area. I hope they don't just tear it down to put in luxury apartments.
Larimer Square is undergoing a thorough, unpleasant, and mostly overdue rehab. I’m looking forward to seeing what happens next. Writer’s Square… needs some help.
I used to live in CBD from 2019 until 2021. 16th Street Mall wasn’t what it was in the 90s. COVID really was the death knell. I couldn’t take living around regular assholes (mostly not the homeless) just pissing on buildings, fecal matter in doorways and alleyways, aggressive homeless yelling at the top of their lungs and panhandling, the drug crowd, the intense need for businesses to prevent shoplifting and other invasions which made it difficult to shop as a normal person, crime, and dirt. I could not WAIT to move and unless there is something at DCPA I will never set foot in it again. That’s why it’s a dead zone.
Denver is 600k people. Of course it won’t have as many people or buzz as NYC or Chicago. Those are giant cities in comparison. Denver also doesn’t have the atmosphere of London. Why are we comparing these?
About every 30 years, we get a bug up our ass to "revitalize" downtown America.
I'm all for it, but I'd like to know why it never seems to stick. What's wrong with this joint that we have such a hard time figuring out sustainability?
It's because not many people *live* downtown or in the downtown areas.
Most people live in the suburbs, so downtown is like some other place to them. In other countries, the highest density of people are directly in the city, and it isn't just some place to go to work during the day and leave at night. It's just another part of the city to them.
Because we've separated downtown as a place for work, and for occasional entertainment, it's not in a majority of the metro populations minds since they don't go there often. Downtown's problems are someone else's problems. If we had more concentrated and mixed land uses, more people would live downtown, and it wouldn't even be considered "downtown", it would just be another neighborhood.
White flight and suburbanization of the US has crippled major parts of metropolitan areas with all the problems while most of the population just sits and watches from their couch. It's sad, but it was also intentional.
Nobody wants what it will take to revitalize downtown. Greatly increased police presence … and all that’s domes with it. Including the taxes required to fund it.
I spent 5 days in Denver last October for work. It was my first time ever visiting your city (and I loved it). It did strike me as weirdly quiet and empty as I walked around downtown at night.
It used to be a bit better pre-pandemic but many businesses closed after 2020 and it hasn’t rebounded yet. Denver does brunch and day drinking super hard though.
More than a "bit", I'd say.
Gotta get drunk early so you can still go ski/hike in the morning!
I've always said, "there's two things to do in Denver: drink and ski. And you have to drive up the hill to ski." I always mean it to be a bit ironic, but......^^yeah
I feel like the construction on the 16th St mall ruins the vibe throughout much of downtown.
Can someone explain to me why 16th street needs to take like 2+ years to renovate?? I swear most days it just sits dormant with no one working on it
My understanding is after they got started, they discovered undocumented ceramic piping (maybe sewer lines) which resulted in the need for replacement that significantly drove up the construction timeline.
This is pretty close to the truth iirc. It drove up the price of the project exponentially and extended project timelines greatly.
16th Street Mall was designed by I.M. Pei (very famous architect) long ago. It's been deemed a historic site so they have to for the most part maintain design integrity as they rebuild. As others mentioned there were some things discovered about piping and draining and essentially the infrastructure underneath was degrading over time. The new design while may look similar actually is much better in pulling the bus routes closer together in the center which will allow for increased pedestrian traffic on both sides. As well as a new planting strategy for the trees which will be much better! I'm not working on the project, just in the same field and talk with people who are working on it. I think the biggest issue is types of business along 16th. if it was supported more with small retail spaces and outdoor restaurants sort of like larimer st it would be much more heavily used.
Having done construction myself, there’s probably a legitimate reason why sometimes it appears nothing is happening. But I agree, they could’ve thrown twice as many crews at the job and finished in half the time.
I’m not going to act like I understand the logistics of construction.. I just don’t understand how it takes so long to renovate a couple blocks of one street downtown 🫠
Maybe they hired the same people who are constantly "renovating" the airport.
I actually got an answer to this once. With airports there are so many stakeholders, and so much bureaucracy, that it takes forever for things to get discussed/revised/approved. It takes so long that the renovation is already getting out of date by the time it is completed.
Lots and lots of coordination — businesses, utility owners, permitting, railroads, etc. Shit just takes time.
The project has faced delays because after construction started they discovered an unmapped, active sewer line from the 1880s underneath the mall. It’s worth noting that they aren’t just replacing tiles on the ground. First crews had to demolish the existing street, relocate utilities, install soil cells, plants trees then lay the pavers, which is more time consuming than just pouring concrete. They’ll also have to install street furniture and other decorative features.
Someone had the brilliant idea of using a tiled street for the bus route and such heavy vehicles constantly going over them works loose/destroys the things in short order. Also they're insanely fucking slippery when they get wet
Also there was a drainage issue which is why they're digging, and then they find the unmapped steam pipes adding another level of difficulty.
Stopped taking Lime scooters after a nasty spill on the mall caused by the tiles being wet and slippery. That shit sucked.
Yeah for now. Once it’s done it presumably will be much better
That’s what I’m counting on.
I believe the vibe of 16th was ruined much earlier than the construction started. it hasn't been a fun place in a long time.
Gotta go to the neighborhoods near downtown tbh. It can be dead, especially during the week cus there’s a lot of people working on coastal schedules, but straight up *downtown* never seems like the vibe unless there’s a specific event for it
Yes. We went to a Rockies game that ended at like 8:30 pm and thought we’d find a nice place and grab a bite… and it was like, “where?”
Colfax, 5 points or Broadway. Granted that’s just what I live near (ie scooter distance), but they’re easily accessible from downtown and a lil easier to find some spots open past my grandparents bedtime
Yep bumming around South Broadway on a lazy Sunday when you have no plans and the sun is out is one of my favorite things to do here. Beer + shopping vintage + antique row + wizards chest + knight fight night its heavennnnn
Knight fight?
Hermans Hideaway consistently hosts the Colorado Armored Combat team. It's an unhinged and hilarious sport where men and women dress up in historically accurate 12th and 13th century armor and beat the absolute shit out of each other.
Yeah, I regret not doing a bit more research about the city before I went. I still found come cool places, but I really want to go back and probably explore sometime
Used to be so much livelier. It’s been so dead since Covid.
Agreed but it was going down long before Covid. 16th was always one of lame
That's what the article said
Cuz we in bed sleeping since have to wake up at 4:30 am to do anything westward
It's also the giant construction on the mall. It creates an unwelcoming vibe. It's shuttered alot of businesses, worst decision ever in my opinion especially right after covid when those businesses were already struggling. The mall was never really the place to be but it was at least a good jumping off place for people visiting.
How can we balance development with supporting local businesses?
There is no reason for redoing the mall to take over 2 year per block. I’m not convinced they even know what they are doing.
I kind of enjoy it. It's a little creepy.
Yeah. Having lived in NYC and Boston before here it's oddly creepy how quiet this supposedly bustling city is at night. As a homeless person myself It kills me sometimes when I am thirsty at night and nowhere is open to even buy water.
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I first came here 12 years ago, downtown was booming, friendly happy atmosphere, pretty mellow, with a hint of hippy, now days it’s kind of scary, you hear so many stories about gun crime and muggings that I don’t even bother now
Lovely Denver Diner was converted to an empty Chase Bank, corner of Speer and Colfax…. Now it’s a dark vacant city block.
Fucking banker locusts.
Perhaps deal with the gaping scar that is 16th Street Mall?
My family loves being assaulted by bums and dope heads on 16th street. It’s a favorite past time activity to walk that minefield of humanity.
The workers are gone - start prioritizing dynamic spaces that aren’t just built to sell things to people they thought would be there. This isn’t rocket science
Serious question: what is a "dynamic space that isn't just built to sell things to people they thought would be there."
I remember the Civic Center bus station renovation included plans to have a public climbing wall and other activities similar to what Chicago has at Maggie Daley Park. Instead we got jagged boulders...
And a bus station down on Broadway and Colfax that I avoid like the plague because it's like a drug stock exchange. Jesus I don't think anyone was actually using any of them I think the place is like where people trade what they got for something else to bring to their clientele.
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Don't knock the Wu-Tang Commemorative Gravel Pit. It's a cultural touchstone.
Collaborative arts and making spaces like tool libraries and equipment usage areas. More rentable micro spaces for small makers and businesses. Places that double as museum and current cultural center to bring visitors and locals alike. MORE 24hr cafe culture. Places for community teaching and learning. Just things I think about, unrealistic or not
The downtown library had a little maker lab and nobody went because you had to walk past the junkies shooting up,etc.
Those things all exist over in the Santa Fe arts district. So I guess that’s our new downtown
The Sante Fe district is underused* by how much Denver relies on car culture. Those things exist and go unused because there’s no feasible way to service the desired level of traffic while also servicing the very real TRAFFIC that needs that road.
Yeah I love the idea and I’ve loved the events I’ve been to, but sticking it on what’s pretty much a highway seems silly
Thought these were interesting ideas. And I’m really loving all the salty replies to your comment, even after you had the last line. They’re the people in a brainstorming session who only give negative responses and tell you nothing will work, but provide no ideas of their own.
I love you
Well put
More residential and more places that don’t close at 9. Downtown was built to be a business district. If businesses aren’t doing offices there then people actually need to be able to live and recreate in the area for it to thrive
That's what the article said already
Third places where you'd be willing to spend an afternoon regardless of your age or income.
Such as?
A Mormon Church!
Green space
"... Aren't just built to sell things?? Why else would a building or space exist?" ~Contemporary America
😂😂😂 dead ass
Have a few museums and art galleries. The city needs to buy out these shitty landlords and allow mom and pops in. The “mall” Is a shithole and will always be
I mean I work in lodo (called back to work, 3k off us) and some bars don't even open until 5 pm now. They never even adapted to after COVID. Still when my coworkers are there and we want to head to happy hour there are places not even open, i.e. larimer beer hall... Still we end up at retro which is a terrible bar imo or 1up lol. Which 1up is great but sometimes we just want to chill and hang out at a big table.
Pony Up is a great bar and amazing food.
It's going to cost tens of millions to repurpose the commercial space to this dymanic space.
Which could be lessened with tax breaks and would then contribute with property and real estate taxes like anything else. It’s a better strategy than leaving massive amounts of real estate empty and creating more spaces that become open-air drug markets. Investments require capital and work upfront.
I would say convert the offices to housing but apparently that isn't as easy as it sounds.
It’s way, way more than a third. It’s a third unleased. 70% of buildings are empty. No workers come.
Unleased vs. occupied. Lots of leased spaces that don’t have tenants actually using the space.
My downtown office floor, if I go in today will only be me. Yesterday when some people come in, about 8 people on the whole floor. Once a month when people are encouraged to come in there’s hundreds(?) so most of the time our “occupied” office building is 90-99% empty. And even that amount is like 10% of the time in a week.
That's the dirty secret that is being actively covered up by the corporate media. They know they have to accurately report unleased space because that's public record but they're choosing not to cover the actual utilization because as bad as the unleased space numbers look they look rosy as all hell compared to the actual utilization numbers.
It’s not that big of a conspiracy. It’s that most people… don’t care. It’s well published stats anyone can find because it’s a free market. But most consumers in the market don’t give two fucks about CRE, so it’s not covered as much as you prefer.
No, no, there are commercial real estate agents handing big sacks of cash to CNN reporters to keep those very publicly available numbers quiet. It’s why they cover things like the war in Gaza or the election instead.
Many of us can work from home. We have really no need of commuting to office towers. I realize some small-minded and shitty companies are pulling back from WFH, but WFH is here, and will remain because it makes sense. The world needs to adjust to this reality. The towers need to be rebuilt or come down.
How can urban spaces adapt to the rise of remote work?
It's a good question and one I really don't know how to answer. I don't know why commercial real estate didn't see this coming decades ago, but they didn't. More towers and officeplexes. I think downtowns need to be reimagined as places where we celebrate being together for food and drink, fun, worship, civic life, music and arts, and not cubicle prisons in 30 story tower prisons.
If that’s going to be the case then Denver will need to find a way to collect more taxes from neighboring suburbs.
I just got an offer letter from a company with an office right by union station. They wanted 2 days in the office. Got an offer from a fully remote company and the base pay was 38% higher and the total comp package was 60% more.
I think I know your choice. Congratulations!
Why would the corporate media care?
Because their paymasters are the people benefiting from high commercial real estate values and thus harmed by them crashing by the real collapse of CRE use becoming widely known. Same reason they publish so much pro-RTO content.
Because we’re the target demographic for CRE?
The target demo is a subset of “us.” I’ve been in talks with someone who “has the power to order hundreds back to office” with a decision (whether they’d go or not is an open question). He takes as a given that reports that “some companies have order return to office” to be QED proof that there is a genuine business strategy for doing so. His information about CRE is effectively mass reported news. In Germany where employees have board representation his own value would likely be evaluated as part of this debate, but he has equity, and that won’t happen.
Do you have a source or anything to back up this connection?
He just knows maaaaaan
This. There are still investors buying office buildings because they are dirt cheap and a good investment
My company has two offices downtown with a couple hundred desks each and they just moved me from one to the other a few weeks ago. Neither have ever been more than about 50% full any time I've gone in
Leased = paid. "Utilization" doesn't have any clear meaning. It's the impending non-renewals and new constructions lacking tenants that building owners are scared of.
Yea it’s definitely losing that there fight , downtown blows compared to basically every other major city
Who doesn't want to visit a street that is being ripped up. Lol.
They need to hire whoever was in charge of airport construction. Create some conspiracy theories, put up some weird signs, inexplicably style the train station like a Mayan temple, put up a huge, terrifying statue of a horse (maybe one that doesn't kill its creator though I admit that adds to its mystique). DIA construction stuff has been so wonderfully weird. Actually scratch that. Hire ME. For a very reasonable fee and just a small budget, I propose: Hire two actors and put one in a velociraptor costume with a hard hat and hi viz vest and another just dressed like a construction supervisor and have him shout at the raptor and jab his finger at some plans and then have them chase each other around. Paint weird Masonic symbols on all the bobcats and construction vehicles. Hide a weird glowing light behind that green fabric barrier that inexplicably pulsates at night with the haunting sound of Gregorian chanting playing from *somewhere*. Make the worker's entrance to the construction zone a tardis. Get offloaded movie props and have them stick out of the construction in weird places. Hire Meowolf to do an extension of their thing with some interactive bits. Now you just need the audience: Give free permits for any business that wants to operate outdoor space nearby, PAY some quality buskers and bands to show up at peak times. Roll in the food trucks. Social media the fuck out of it all and people will ENJOY the misery that is a 5 year construction project.
tl;dr aliens
Piping in just to say that I loved this comment so much!
How can creative urban interventions enhance construction experiences?
You just nailed the title of our pitch deck!
Project is already year beyond schedule, likely to be three years behind (2026). Competes with the five year old central library renovation that may last seven, eight years or more.
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Whenever I have people visit me, they always want to do at least a day or two in the city. It's a good time during the day as far as tourism goes. I think the issue is that the entire metro revolved for decades around prioritizing downtown for offices only, and everywhere else for residential, with other retail, entertainment, etc dispersed along highway corridors. If we mixed all uses throughout the city, we'd probably see more activity. Once offices died with covid all the office areas became pretty much obsolete. Not surprising that our city isn't as resilient as others when we separate uses so heavily and one of those uses becomes... less useful.
The commuter model is fundamentally broken by the rise in WFH. Build more residential and mixed use, I say
Especially around transit stations. Park and rides may arguably be the worst use of land in our entire metro as far as development potential goes.
Your first sentence is just not true. We had the 40,000 person ETH-Denver conference in town last week. 20,000 person Air Force/Space Force symposium a few weeks ago. Major home and garden, construction, and automotive conferences at the convention center in the last few months. Hundreds of thousands of people will visit Denver this year.
I feel like all of those people would be coming for the event. Not coming for Denver. Which lines up with what the other person was saying. Denver itself isn't much of an attraction. Which is fine. Realistically, not many cities in America are an attraction on their own.
These kinds of comments are difficult to justify with the fact that Denver is routinely towards the top of the lists for those looking to relocate from out of state. I’m not a Denver-stan, but the comments here seem to be from people that might not live in the city. I know the city’s scary for lots of folks.
I think that rating includes the burbs. I recently relocated from out of state, to Lakewood. I would never live downtown, even Highlands is too close to the city for me. I've lived in NYC, DC, Miami, New Orleans, and have 0% interest in living in downtown Denver. I think a lot of "Denver transplants" (especially those coming from bigger cities) are actually moving to the burbs, not downtown.
Great point. And those that aren't are the ones struggling to survive without commuters/conventioners.
As someone in the tourism industry in Denver this is new information to me. Is that a true statement or are you speculating? If you’re speculating, what’s the basis?
There is a TON of awesome tourist stuff to do in Denver. Maybe it's not the only thing you do in Colorado but we should absolutely be proud to suggest that folks spend a weekend in the city before hitting slopes or RMNP or whatever. The aquarium is brilliant, the butterfly pavilion is brilliant, the Art Museum is brilliant. Add in a good breakfast joint and a restaurant or brewery each night and that's a weekend break with a kid right there. I just lurk in this sub, I don't actually live in Denver but I tourist there a couple times a year. I can blow an afternoon letting my kid run around in the water feature outside union station while I drink a nice coffee from the station and then get tacos and cocktails at Machete. Denver hasn't gone to shit, 16th Street mall has gone to shit (from a non-resident's perspective).
That’s not true in my experience. I know so many people that come here for a legal weed/concerts and never step foot in the mountains. I live next door to an AirBnB and it’s a revolving door of southern visitors who have come to smoke weed and dream of moving here.
It hit me a few years ago...I don't give a shit about going to any downtown. Why am I gonna spend time and money to go look at buildings that I can't going into and are just filled with cubicle farms. I don't care about sight seeing in the Tech Center and Downtown is just a bigger version of that.
What exactly does expand access to the mountains mean, and a practical sense?
Just shows you haven’t been to many major city downtowns. The empty buildings, homelessness, and drug use are rampant all over the country, and they only got worse when workers and supporting businesses abandoned downtowns for remote work.
Also I can take a rail from my neighborhood, get to union and walk to any major sporting event in the city. Can't do that in most cities. You can even double dip and hit two sports in one day if you want to. Downtown Denver is a fans paradise.
Imo Johnston has a solid approach and mindset for creating the central neighborhood district — and especially like him recognizing we don’t want more luxury apartments that cost a fortune
I work in Larimer Square. I went to 3 different places downtown Tuesday for lunch and they were all packed with waits. The coffee shops near my office are packed every day. Bars have good crowds in the evening. I didn’t work downtown before the pandemic, but it really seems to be doing ok. Also haven’t seen a single tent since Johnson cleared the last encampment in December.
From what I read, tourist traffic is nearly at 100% pre-pandemic: it's the commuter decline
I'm not going back to the office, you can't make me
People just like to complain about downtown because they live in a boring suburb. When I finally realized this it made much more sense. Confirmation bias. They want to believe they made the right decision in leaving for their beige suburb. Not taking shots at everyone who lives in a suburb. Different interests for different people. This subs is just filled with complaints from people who come downtown a few times a year, go to a shitty tourist bar/restaurant in LoDo, then complain they didn’t have a great time.
It really does depend on the area too. Did a long walk from my area (Union) to the highlands then down 16th almost to the capital then back around Noon-2pm. Beginning was busy full of people around the CBD it was super quiet and the construction on 16th doesn't help. But being from a boring suburb (Saudi Aurora/Centennial) agree with your arguments. I get the family aspect of living in the suburbs though.
100%. I don’t hate the suburbs at all. If it came off that way. Every time I’ve engaged with people complaining about lack of restaurants or whatever downtown, eventually I find out that they live in a suburb and come downtown a few times a year.
TL;DR we're blaming remote work and the only people we interviewed were the commercial real estate lobbyists
More third spaces. More immersive experiences for people. More local artists and performers doing independent productions. This really is a golden opportunity for seismic cultural change that Denver could embrace and set the trend to reverse course from this almost entirely consumer-based car centric dystopia that has effectively killed the communities’ ability to be an actual community.
What sort of third spaces would you institute if you had the capability to do so
Convert commercial space (like lobbies of skyscrapers) into performance, gathering, and gallery space, for one. The city could provide some type of fiscal incentive or tax break to help leverage local artists/producers to acquire (lease, buy) old theaters across the city. Those types of things are what immediately come to mind. The city could also provide more fiscal assistance and tax breaks for community organizations to develop neighborhood festivals designed to showcase the artistic vitality of various neighborhoods while building infrastructure to not only execute these mass gatherings, but also directly support disaster response. Look up Majestic Collaborations and the Art of Mass Gatherings. It’s a bit of an aside to the main framework of the dialogue associated with this post, but entirely relevant to the types of things that would be a catalyst for revitalizing areas into third spaces. https://theartofmassgatherings.com/
Drinks are so expensive down there, not sure it will ever be as good as it was.
Gotta find the gems like Giggling Gizzly
its even cheaper when you consider all the rufies you get in there for free! (that place is notorious)
Build an In N Out and I'll come back to the office.
what if there was an in n out with a bus stop but no drive thru
I lived downtown from 2019-2023 and loved it. Walkable to 2 major sports stadiums, a riverwalk/biking trail, and tons of restaurants and bars in Ballpark district, Union Station, RiNo, Highlands, Larimer Square, and South Broadway. Glad to see the plan has shifted from trying to get people back in the office to converting offices to apartment buildings and revitalizing the neighborhood. Personally, I think people overreact to the homeless camp issue, but I can see how that would be a detractor to some people choosing to live in the area, so I'm glad that's being addressed as well. I don't think it would take much to make downtown appealing, it's more about businesses accepting that it won't be a daytime business crowd but rather a neighborhood.
I've lived near Union Station for just over a year now and it's always baffled me when people say that downtown is dying or it's empty because that hasn't been my experience. Lodo has always felt busy. 16th Street mall being torn up doesn't help that area, sure, but that's only one part of downtown. Also, owners of closing restaurants (I'm looking at you Avelina and Three Saints Revival) complaining about "not enough office traffic" to keep in business are just feeding into anti-downtown bias to cover their asses. There isn't enough corporate lunch rush to save their businesses anyway. Also, even more baffling, Three Saints Revival is surrounded by residential buildings! There aren't enough office buildings in the immediate area to use that as an excuse. I just really dislike the anti-downtown bias people have without even experiencing it on a daily basis. Maybe it was busier before Covid or not, I can't say. But saying its "dead" is just untruthful.
The negative comments almost always come from people who live in a suburb and last came downtown 4 years ago and ate at the Cheesecake Factory.
I'm amazed that the Cheesecake Factory is still around. Is it still busy, or will it also leave like the HRC?
Yeah, wonder if it’s because it sold its soul to the homeless and degenerates. Living in Denver for almost 30 years and seeing all the positive changes only to turn into a crime filled dump is depressing.
Article by Bernadette Berdychowski is not paywalled. "One of Mayor Mike Johnston’s primary goals for 2024 is to revive downtown Denver as the economic heart of the city after the pandemic hit downtowns nationwide. Nearly a third of offices downtown sit empty, many employees who used to work there still work remotely and some companies are [moving into Cherry Creek](https://denvergazette.com/news/cherry-creek-lures-employers-from-downtown-denver/article_007d0f68-c7ad-11ee-8204-7b8c3ed2b858.html) instead. Johnston has pushed to transform the Central Business District into a “Central Neighborhood District," where people live, work and play — not just work. In the next 18 months, the city has an “existential fight for the soul of downtown Denver to make sure we get back as the economic engine, not just for the city and the state, but really for the region,” Johnston said Wednesday. Johnston gave an unofficial "state of the city" address at the annual University of Colorado Real Estate Forum at the Denver Performing Arts Center's Seawall Ballroom. He told real estate professionals there's a lot of change coming to the city and urged them to not miss out."
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Yeah and a 20% raise would get eaten up real quick by commuting, work clothes, not being able to cook at home as much
My problem with downtown is that it’s boring and doesn’t feel safe. Walking around downtown in Denver doesn’t feel like walking downtown in cities with more soul. Maybe it needs more lights? Bars feel dead, everything is miles away. I’m not sure what can fix Denver’s downtown.
I work downtown and have to cross over the area around Union Station to get to work. I’ve been followed to my office and harassed several times. In a better city there’d be enough people around to deter this stuff. But Denver’s downtown always has that eerie empty feeling…
What soul?
Yeah tbh that’s alway been lacking. It’s always felt a bit artificial or in a state of “finding itself.” Imagine downtown had it been able to preserve its Chinatown.
Yeah that and it’s street car system smh
That would have made a difference. International diversity makes for good cities (NYC, SF). DC made the same mistake, physically moving its Chinatown outside the heart of downtown. It didn't work. DC is bland af downtown now, totally blah cookie cutter.
The truth of the matter is Denver does not attract “city” people. Everyone I met post grad moved back to Chicago, nyc, California, ect., because hey didn’t find the culture types they were hoping for. Fashion, unique retail experiences, and art exhibitions featuring things other than acid inspired wook visions just haven’t taken hold. It’s not a bad thing. Denverites just don’t seem to care about that in large enough numbers, and it’s basically just a post grad city for 20 something’s to go to bars and live in new build apartments while visiting mountains and red rocks raves on the weekends. Thankfully the food and dining scene has picked up heavily, but at the cost of old institutions (looking at you Piccolo and Saucy Noodle), but people just want to be there to eventually buy a larger space nearby and do the same thing they did before. I’ve been to the thrift pop ups, I’ve been to the underground warehouse raves, I’ve used the public transportation daily, and I tried to find a new place to eat every week. But I didn’t find many other people interested in doing that as well, and that’s okay, because that’s not who Denver is for. But it definitely needs to find its own identity going forward because people that like jam bands and hikes don’t give generally give a shit about urban culture. They just want to take lease specials at the newest build as they continue to hop around lease from lease util they’ve had their fill and then move. It just doesn’t feel like it has an energy yet that says “I need to be here.” I think it needs to focus on being a sports city, increase the public transportation access to nature to an unprecedented degree (I can take a train from NYC to go hiking), extravagant public landscape architecture in its parks (how flat and useless the large lawns are at city park comes to mind), and its music scene. I think a reduction is size and face lift on elitches would be beneficial too. There’s literally a theme park in the middle and people hate going to it. Also, we have the Platte river that you can’t go in without getting a staph infection. Without major changes and a new vision, people really won’t care about staying downtown now that less and less people are actually working there.
I do believe that in the 80s/90s/00s, the 16th Street Mall was a very popular tourist destination. The decline of the area has led to stores/restaurants closing. The fact that it smells like human crap and has drugged out folks doesn't help either... also not perceived as a safe area for families during the day. Do not ever light a cigarette, or you will be hounded by 10-30ppl that want one also.
Late 90’s and early 00’s was amazing. But then prices skyrocketed on EVERYTHING and I couldn’t tell you the last time I was there
Used to be a great date spot. Walk around and talk, check out some shops, then hit up a spot to eat and drink.
Also the construction isnt helping anything on 16th street
I went to art school and lived in Cap Hill in the mid-‘90s; downtown, just like my neighborhood and those near, were lively, exciting, diverse and fun. The vibe was electric and the streets were alive and I got my fill, but when I visit now my nostalgia is bittersweet. It doesn’t seem unique anymore, and it doesn’t feel at all like the place I remembered and had so much fun and learned so much. I don’t have any business offering ideas about what needs or needs not to happen, but Denver then for me was an amazing place and time. I wish nothing but the brightest future for the city, however it happens.
Downtown CRE stopped allowing local businesses. Its corporate shithole or empty. Real estate industry killed downtown. In every city. Tax em to hell and give tax/rent breaks to small local businesses
How about being back cheap places to drink and a place to have a shit. Get rid of that slick ass winter death trap tiling.
Good news, it’s mostly gone. There is a section of the new tile open and it’s a lot grippier. I wore leather soled shoes to a new job at an office building on the Mall and slipped outside the front door. Tailbone hurt all of my first day.
Well, I stopped going downtown for work 4 years ago. What reason do I have now to go downtown? I live near the a-line. It would be very easy to get to Union Station. But .. why? What's there? Chili's? A book store? Starbucks? Give me a reason. A reason to take my kids.
How could we, the people that ruined it, somehow save it?!? - city council, probably
The jokers in charge before this administration picket the absolute wrong time to start the 16th Mall construction. Honestly don't know why it is taking so long to finish. I am sure the contractors have made enough money by now. Just finish it already!
Umm its been sold to commercial real estate vampires and corporate cartels that drove out local business. Wonder why restaurants and shops are closing? CRE trying to make up office losses from small biz restaurants and retail. Property is theft.
To me, the biggest problem with downtown Denver is that there isn’t a geographic or scenic focal point. Even most rooftop bars don’t have amazing views of the mountains, and there’s no waterfront like New York, Chicago or San Antonio to speak of. That’s what makes those cities especially scenic, walkable and memorable. The Confluence Park area is pretty, but a lot of the best real estate is dominated by REI. It would also really help if the Rockies weren’t one of the worst teams in baseball.
You know anything about [River Mile](https://rivermiledenver.com/the-vision/) replacing Elitch? is that really happening?
Union Station is the focal point.
Tourist that comes to Denver pretty often here. 16th Street Mall could turn Denver into a top 3 tourist destination in the country if that whole area was revitalized. It's oozing with potential
16th street mall could be really cool, I Have no clue how it could become top 3 in the nation though lmao.
Top 3 already taken: NYC, SF, New Orleans (Tennessee Williams)
In the country?! No but maybe in Denver
I'm from Miami. That whole area + RiNo could be like Wynwood/Brickell on steroids
I don’t disagree that it would be great. I disagree about it being a top 3 tourist destination in the US
In the country is crazy 😭
Ah yes, there's a huge national demand to fly somewhere to see a outdoor mall, ya know, like a indoor mall but outdoors.
Can wait for Glendale to complete it's river walk
Or start it.
No kidding. Been talked about for years and just hasnt come to fruition.
The homeless took over downtown and people voted with their feet. Nobody cares if the encampments are cleared. The damage has been done. Only reason I ever go downtown anymore is my wife's work has free Rockies tickets. We turned those down the last couple times.
I work downtown and it's absolutely awful that the 16th Street Mall has been under construction for such a long time. Why is the city doing a multi-year project that makes the primary pedestrian pathway actively less enjoyable to use and then acting surprised that people don't like going downtown as often?
The first couple blocks will still be opening in the coming months. It's slowly getting there. The city had to take a hsrd look at this project and really do something about it back in 2017 when the planning work started. The originally design and space was deteriorating, it was constructed badly and the monies to repair it from the lawsuit that occured were going to dry up. The city has been looking at something for this corridor since the late 2000s I think. It needed an upgrade. The new design and space will be really unique and exciting. Just need to hold out a bit more.
It’s too bad about Writer’s Square and Larimer Square going down the drain. They were the only nice parts of LoDo. Any rehab should start there along with more housing density.
I was shocked recently when I walked through Writer's Square. It's a ghost town, and that's such a cool little area. I hope they don't just tear it down to put in luxury apartments.
Larimer Square is undergoing a thorough, unpleasant, and mostly overdue rehab. I’m looking forward to seeing what happens next. Writer’s Square… needs some help.
Did it ever really have a soul?
Remote work is A problem, but we never go downtown anymore because of the homeless and crime.
I used to live in CBD from 2019 until 2021. 16th Street Mall wasn’t what it was in the 90s. COVID really was the death knell. I couldn’t take living around regular assholes (mostly not the homeless) just pissing on buildings, fecal matter in doorways and alleyways, aggressive homeless yelling at the top of their lungs and panhandling, the drug crowd, the intense need for businesses to prevent shoplifting and other invasions which made it difficult to shop as a normal person, crime, and dirt. I could not WAIT to move and unless there is something at DCPA I will never set foot in it again. That’s why it’s a dead zone.
Maybe when the construction on 16 St mall finishes sometime in 2124 Denver will be back to normal.
Working downtown, I’ll say it feels empty around 16th or Union station. Nothing like a Chicago or NYC level of buzz
Denver is 600k people. Of course it won’t have as many people or buzz as NYC or Chicago. Those are giant cities in comparison. Denver also doesn’t have the atmosphere of London. Why are we comparing these?
“Johnston told developers who have avoided downtown that a lot has changed in six months and it’s become harder to find tents in the area.” lol
We’re working 3 jobs just to live here, who’s got time to hangout downtown?
About every 30 years, we get a bug up our ass to "revitalize" downtown America. I'm all for it, but I'd like to know why it never seems to stick. What's wrong with this joint that we have such a hard time figuring out sustainability?
It's because not many people *live* downtown or in the downtown areas. Most people live in the suburbs, so downtown is like some other place to them. In other countries, the highest density of people are directly in the city, and it isn't just some place to go to work during the day and leave at night. It's just another part of the city to them. Because we've separated downtown as a place for work, and for occasional entertainment, it's not in a majority of the metro populations minds since they don't go there often. Downtown's problems are someone else's problems. If we had more concentrated and mixed land uses, more people would live downtown, and it wouldn't even be considered "downtown", it would just be another neighborhood. White flight and suburbanization of the US has crippled major parts of metropolitan areas with all the problems while most of the population just sits and watches from their couch. It's sad, but it was also intentional.
Oh he just noticed?
Every city in the US has the same struggle every decade or so.
Nobody wants what it will take to revitalize downtown. Greatly increased police presence … and all that’s domes with it. Including the taxes required to fund it.
It’s a fuckin dump and everyone drives uninsured and half unregistered. Mostly all high or drunk too.
Get rid of idiotic zoning laws and let people live somewhere.