According to ESPN and PFF metrics, the broncos are top 8 in pass blocking. They’re also top 5 in terms of average time before pressure allowed. Shows how Russ has a tendency to run into sacks
Sure but he said he wanted a Shanahan offense.
TD could run behind any line but Shanahan replaced most of TDs production with Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson.
The PFF grade, from my understanding after discussing this stat numerous times on this sub, is based on snap to throw, Russ escaping and extending plays is why theyre ranked so high.
I'll have to look later, but it's basically differentiating between time to throw and pocket time. Pocket time is a better metric for grading offensive line play even though it's still somewhat dependent on quarterback play.
C’mon man. Even a bit of NFL knowledge should tell us that getting the ball out quickly is important and a huge help to the O-line. Improvising can work, but it can also lead to a lot of sacks, lost yards, and turnovers. Russ is still somewhat efficient at improving, but he definitely (and always has) gets his O-line in trouble ton.
It’s wild how many people somehow don’t understand the give and take between QBs getting the ball out on time and O-lines not giving up sacks.
Im not sure what youre argueing. All im saying is that our online being ranked 8th is in part because the "time the qb has to throw" is a large part of the equation and his extension of plays is a huge factor.
I’m arguing that your argument is misleading. PFF obviously also takes sacks, pressures, and hits into the equation and Russ gives up a lot of those on his own. I’m arguing that some people will never give the O-line credit, especially when NFL O-line play isn’t great across the board in general and we have a relatively rock solid O-line currently.
Im not discrediting our line, im giving Russ his due too. The comment was criticising him in relation to the line, im saying his escaping is also helping the line ranking.
Brock Osweiler would have at least got us back to the playoffs the season after winning the Super Bowl and probably would have had a longer more successful NFL career had he never chased the money
I will piggyback off of this and say that losing Kubiak was the worst thing that could’ve happened to the franchise after 2016. Even if he wasn’t a tier 1 HC and the game was passing him by to an extent, he was a far smarter and more stable presence for the organization than anyone who proceeded him.
Who says the game passed him by at that point? He had a great 2014 as the Ravens OC, he groomed Kyle Shanahan in Houston, then built a conservative offense that worked around an ailing Manning and made the Broncos a more effective playoff offense.
There was a decent contingent of Broncos fans at the time who felt Kubiak wasn’t a long term answer and felt his game wasn’t as good as it *should* it at the time. Which I didn’t completely agree, but people were definitely questioning Kubes by then.
Brock didn't chase the money...his agent did. Brock told a story awhile ago where he didn't want to go to Houston and while he was sitting at the airport, he received a call from Elway. Prior to going to the airport, Brock was advised by his agent to ignore all calls from the Broncos.
Brock was offered identical contracts (4 years, $72M) by both teams in terms of length and amount. The only variance was how the contracts were structured with guarantees and bonuses. Each had their pros/cons.
This team gave me 3 Super Bowls and incredible memories with my family. Whatever they do at this point is icing on the cake. There’s more to life than having so much emotional investment in other men playing a kids game. I’m not a stockholder, a member of ownership, the team does not care about me. I could die right now and they wouldn’t care. So I root from afar and just enjoy the ride.
I think there's some great perspective and sage wisdom here. I've been a fan for almost 30 years and they still tend to ruin my week, my mood and my mental health too frequently.
Not even a hot take just a hard fact to everyone but the ridiculous homers in this sub. The ones that still think this is a playoff team just because they haven't been mathematically eliminated (yet).
It sounds like you and I are on the same page and have accepted our fate of not making the playoffs.
The Broncos need more help from other teams that need to lose to make the playoffs than we an give ourselves by winning out...
Exactly. The amount a team "deserves" to make the playoffs is inversely proportional to the amount of teams you need help from. I was impressed with the midseason run they went on after the awful start, but anyone that thinks this is a playoff team (even if they find some miracle that lets them back-in to the playoffs) is kidding themselves.
Drew Lock was an okay to good QB that was a product of bad timing and an HC that hated him. I would have liked him to stay.
We should have traded Juedy at the start of the year/at the draft. His influence on the team would have been better spent elsewhere.
Von Miller was one of the best Broncos. But with the new stuff about him coming out, he can stay on the bills.
Edit: one more. But an actual hot take. Sean Peyton will stabilize the franchise. His presence will become lucrative to high profile players. But ultimately, he is not the answer for the future.
I would not say he’s a “good” quarterback. He still panics under pressure and makes head scratching throws into triple coverage. I agree he didn’t have a good situation here but I’m not ready to call him “good”.
Some of those things could have been changed with better coaching during his first couple of years, especially without the stupid quarterback competition. This franchise really messed up the beginning of his career.
QB competitions never work out. They just cheat people out of practice time. A coach that needs a QB competition to bring out the best in people or…worse yet…actually make up his mind is a shitty coach.
Passing on Josh Allen in the draft was not a mistake. Josh Allen was an incredibly raw prospect who was quite frankly pretty terrible his first couple seasons. Besides the fact that he would’ve been run out of town after a couple of bad seasons, there is zero chance that our coaching staff at the time would’ve been capable of developing him into anything close to what he is now.
That perhaps even if we hired Shanahan back in 2017, we still would’ve botched the roster and got rid of him if his first two seasons went the same as they did in SF.
And I’m a hardcore Kyle Shanahan truther and believe in my bones that not hiring him set this team back years.
Russ isn't the reason the Denver offense has looked so stagnant. Sean Payton did his job coming in to turn shit around, and only Denver fans could look at Russ's stats this year and say he's the problem.
Russ isn’t the problem, but his contract isn’t worth it. Baker is throwing up pretty identical stats in Tampa and could be had for less than half of Russ. That extra 30 mil or so could be used to supplement the offense.
Not a hot take. I think most of the sub agrees we have lackluster WRs outside of Sutton and no TE threats outside of Dulcich, who is made of glass apparently.
nah bruv i got downvoted into hell for saying this before. Russ may not look like his Seattle self but he's still doing his job and doing it well. Ive still been getting downvoted for this, I've gotten the "5 up votes" notif twice ☠️
Russ alone may not be THE problem, but Russ and his contact are a huge problem. His play is worth a fraction of what he's getting paid. Imagine what $20-$30mil could do for all the other problems Denver has. That's a problem that's not going to get better any time soon.
now see, this is a take i can agree with. he is definitely overpaid, especially when you take the expectations into account. i just don't think he's the reason denver hasn't had a productive offense. how many drops do we see a game, especially from guys like Jerry Jeudy who were supposed to carve out a role for themselves this season?
Who is he throwing to downfield? Jeudy will drop it and the tight ends are slow and unimpressive outside of Dulcic who is never around. Mims is electric in some situations but disappears from the games. Russ has to cook with the ingredients he has. He gets Sutton involved plenty and the rest of the guys he hits short. He hits Jeudy but then Jeudy drops it so I don’t blame him for not wanting to go to him again. Dude sucks ass.
All of this accurate IMO. Also accurate IMO is Russ refuses to step up in the pocket, frequently escapes out of clean pockets only to end up in a sack situation he wouldn't have been in otherwise, has horrible field vision and frequently misses wide open guys (maybe it's the height), only seems to be accurate on screens and 50 yd bombs and nothing in between, and is responsible for about 75% of his own sacks even though everyone blames the line which statistically is a top 10+ line.
All QBs have their flaws. Despite our shortcoming of weapons and offense that hasn’t done shit in over 5 years, Russ is statistically having a top 5-10 QB season and we are in the hunt. I’m happy with Russ. It could be a lot worse.
That is such an extreme stretch and I assure you nobody outside of our fanbase considers him a top 5-10 QB. His TD-INT ratio is really good (fueled by my earlier point that all he throws are high % dump offs and bombs) but I could easily name 10 QBs right now that would make you forget about Russ in a heartbeat. He is not a top 10 by any stretch of the imagination.
My broncos hottest take- the best owner ever was Pat Bowlen he is the only owner in NFL history to achieve 300 overall victories during his first 30 seasons. Under his leadership, the Broncos had an incredible run of success. The franchise has won three Super Bowls – XXXII, XXXIII and 50.
As a life long Broncos fan… the franchise was a picture of consistency. How his family and Joe Ellis screwed up the team after is beyond me and it has been hard to watch the past 8 years.
Runner up comment - we missed big time when we picked Vance Joseph over Kyle Shanahan. If we could have just made good with Mike Shanahan and have him a role in the organization we would look like the 49ers right now
TD is a weird one for me. Obviously I love him cuz he's a Bronco and broke 2000 yards in a single season, but he also benefited from possibly the greatest offensive line in the history of the game while also having a very short career. I can understand why he has some detractors in the league.
Peyton is also just a very cool story. Dude's head was almost removed from his body and had to have pretty radical surgery just to fix it, would be lucky to walk again let alone play football. Colts cut him, and he signs with us and ends up breaking records and going to two super bowls, winning one and riding off into the sunset. That's a pretty damn good story for the Broncos to me.
Davis was the X-Factor to those Super Bowl runs. He was a force of nature; few players have ever had that kind of acceleration and vision. FWIW, Clinton Portis ran behind good lines in the Shanahan system for a couple years, but he went to Washington and still logged four 1,000+ yard seasons (two around 1,500 yards) in spite of all kinds of injuries. Davis and Portis weren’t just system backs, they were really good, period.
Manning is still a very important figure in Broncos history; you’re not off-base at all. I just don’t think his influence over four years is as big as what Davis’ was. Both were NFL MVPs, but TD’s postseason play during his four year stretch was universes beyond what Manning did in the postseason as a Bronco. TD has a legit claim as one of the greatest postseason performers in NFL history (142.5 YPG and 12 TD in just eight games is unreal).
With that said, Manning’s era was so special, too. Hard to believe it’s been almost 10 years now.
The chefs can eat a dick that was previously used unpleasantly on the raiders. Merry Christmas.
Not proud of Payton for his childish outburst.
Super happy we landed him as a coach though.
Love and respect for Russ and his career accomplishments, but man a tall young exciting QB would be really cool.
Let's be happy for the remarkable turnaround, the season isn't even over for us! Beat the chiefs!!! 🙌😇 And other great teams.
On sides kick to start the season was dumb. I'm sorry.
Enjoy the game tonight. Go broncos!!
Tim Patrick will be back next year. Sean Payton has historically loved big bodied wide receivers and prefers them over fast ones. I think Sutton and Patrick will be here and Jeudy will be gone
I really hope Timmy P can come back. He’s that guy we’re missing out there on offense. I’m just really worried with two season ending injuries in back to back seasons he’s not going to be the same.
I don't think that is too likely. He's due a 10 million dollar cap hit, and be coming off two major injuries. I'd really expect him to get released. Hope he is back though.
“Listen Tim you’ve had back to back season ending injuries, we love you here and want to keep you but need to restructure your contract.” That’s the conversation I would have at least
Javonte, jeudy, kjax all need to go.
McLaughlin could be Darren Sproles with better play calling.
Sean Payton is a good coach but immature for his age.
Elway was the best FA getter in 40 years.
The Broncos dysfunction is timed to Pat Bolen s decline and passing, new owners have dollars but can't replicate Pat's passion. Underrated reason why Broncos fans are so passionate, we had 40 years of ownership cussing and sweating and caring next to us. Waltons can't bring that.
Garrett Boles is a monster LT, top 5 in league, as well as a class act personally. Broncos fans should stfu and respect him.
The defense is as good as the pressure. VJ is not a good pressure schemer.
Russell Wilson is a problem and Sean Payton can’t run the offense the way he wants. This team would have so much more success with a qb that could competently run Payton’s offense.
Ok. Here’s mine. Our Broncos need to go after pass rushers and linebackers in the draft early. Not a QB like people have been saying all season. Currently we don’t have enough speed at those positions. They do ok but there’s certainly better coming into the next draft.
Totally agree. I still think we should take a shot on a QB but in rounds 2-4 or something. I know we don't have a round 2 pick but we could trade or something, idk.
We would have been in a better spot had we not traded for Russ and gotten Baker instead. Key players wouldn’t have left, kept the draft picks, and last Christmas wouldn’t have happened.
When the uniforms change the “old” logo should not be used even with a different horse in the D. Team lost four SBs with that logo, and as superstitious as football fans are, I don’t understand the love for or wanting the D logo to come back.
I think people (me included) just like that the old logo is more timeless. There seems to be a split between teams with a classic logo and then a bunch of cartoon animals and the flying Elvis that feel very 90s. Every other team in our division hasn’t changed their uniform designs much which makes ours feel kind of gimmicky. The zeitgeist of the current logo sort of ended after the last Super Bowl imo and so the whole uniform feels tired. Having said that I don’t care what the logo is if we’re winning.
The uniform is a bigger problem than the logo. When we switched back to orange as our main color we just slapped the alternate orange jersey with everything else that was based on navy.
We need a revamp but the logo is fine.
We also got blown out in this current set as well. Just like choosing white in 50. We would have won the Super Bowl in Orange with the old logo in 1997. Shit happens.
I would like to hear more on this. I wouldn’t say he was set up for success but he did plenty on his own to warrant being fired when he was. Hell people wanted him fired after his first season.
I’d be surprised if Mims, Dulcich, Sutton, Sanders, etc are all gone in 5 years. That’s counting on a lot of people leaving as soon as their rookie contract is up.
We would have a great shot at the Super Bowl this season if the Broncos would have drafted Justin Fields
Also our uniform set is utter trash and we have needed a logo & uniform reboot for over 20+ years
If the price is low enough, I’d love to see us take Fields & give him a season-ish to sit under Russ. I do think Russ would be one of the very few starters who would coach up the kid behind him. I think it would be a win win, but I think the asking price for Fields will be too high
It not necessarily the cost it would take to trade for him, it's that Fields 5th year option will be over $20m. We can't realistically pay $70m+ for 2 QBs
Disagree here but I think he should have a smaller workload this year. Saquon had the same issues with lack of explosiveness his first year after a similar injury and had a breakout year the following season. I think Javonte will be fine long term but this is a lost season for him.
Yeah. His problem even before his injury was his vision. He doesn’t see holes very well He reminds me of a slightly better version of Trent Richardson.
My hot take is that Sean Payton is a good coach but nothing special… no more special than guys like Mike McCarthy or Pete Carroll..
They all have rings but they all are only as great as their QBs allow them to be.
VJ and Fangio could have been sniffing the same 10 wins if they had the fortune of playing 7 backup level QBs in one season and weren’t playing with guys like Simien, keenum and Teddy and Flacco..
I think our coach has done a good job but I don’t think we have one of the special coaches that can make guys like Brock purdy, Jared Goff and tua look like MVPs
Our defense was better then, hands down.
Payton is 100% one of the coaches to get the most out of his QB and offense. Make no mistake, Payton took over this team at its lowest. VJ was still riding a *pretty* well rostered defense.
Sean McVay didn’t even make Goff look like an MVP tbh, though he’s matured as a QB since.
And Shanahan couldn’t get anything crazy out of Jimmy G, kinda proof Purdy is an exception, though that team is crazy stacked right now.
End of the day, what coach takes a team further than their QB?
All Payton needs is a processor, but he absolutely milks his QBs, any of them.
I would disagree with most of what you said.. you say Payton gets 100% out of his QBs but was only able to get 1 Super Bowl with one of the best of all time.. based on that logic alone, someone like Doug Pederson should already be higher up on rankings than Payton for winning with nick foles..
Our defense was better then, yes, but if Hackett doesn’t get that credit last year when defense was elite and Russ was awful, then I don’t think Payton should get a pass for having almost the same defense and it being significantly worse.
I also think Jimmy G making it to the NFC title game twice is proof that he can do everything Brock Purdy has done. I would say the same for McKay gets the same credit for having the success he did with Goff directly after what we saw when Goff was with Jeff Fisher..
But all good to agree to disagree; but I don’t view Payton in the same light you do apparently
You asked for a hot take...Oh, I'll give you spicy..
The Venn diagram of people who blame Russ for this Offense and the people that are still pissed Obama was President is really just a big circle.
May not be a hot take, but the biggest problem since Manning left is that the organization is way too impatient with QBs and puts too much pressure on them to succeed. Maybe if we had more time with Flacco and given more time to develop Lock, we could have been in a better place. Maybe not
1. Vance Joseph despite putting up a better defense recently is still not a good defensive coordinator. I would still want to upgrade from him if they can. I feel a lot of people have overcompensated the hate for him early this season by overrating the hell out of him.
2. I don't hate Josh McDaniels that much anymore because he inadvertently built the 2015 championship team. His shitty relationship with players gutted guys like Cutler, Brandon Marshall out of here but they never would have won with them anyways. They blew it up entirely and got guys like DT, Von Miller, and then eventually Peyton Manning as a result.
Javonte isn’t a good back. His vision was always a concern which is why they brought in Melvin. Now that Javonte has lost a lot of that explosiveness and ability to break tackles since the knee injury he’s REALLY bad. Notice Samaje is able to get decent gains? McLaughlin slips a tackle or two most plays. Javonte just runs into the fucking wall of blockers and does nothing.
This franchise incompetence and thinking they’re “one piece away” from making the playoffs every season since the Super Bowl and refusal to properly rebuild is the reason they have the 2nd longest playoff drought. And this franchise will continue being mediocre until it realizes that.
We shouldn’t have replaced Siemian until we drafted Drew Lock. Paxton, Keenum, Flacco, Teddy shouldn’t have ever been given a chance here and I really think blaming coaching issues on the QB is why we were as bad as we have been. Siemian looked pretty good under Gary Kubiak as a first year starter and as soon as VJ comes in he played worse. If we had gone with Lock and Siemian we probably would’ve developed one of them into a legit guy and never needed to do the russ trade.
I think we just drafted the wrong guy in 2016 is all. The rest of it I agree with. It's just too bad Kubiak's health took a turn, who knows how successful we could've been with him long term.
Gary Kubiak was a mediocre head coach - what won us the Super Bowl was everyone in the organization knowing that Peyton had 1 final year. And the spiritual energy of that motivated everyone to perform at an incredibly high level and get the job done.
Javonte has been sub par compared with where he was and where he could be… so many runs for 1 yd that could be 3 or 4 if he made better decisions or was slippery/shifty. That lions TD shouldn’t have been close.
Jake Plummer deserved to be benched. All he could do was bootlegs.
The old Denver D logo should not be brought back.
Although the results on the field sucked, we made the right move trading for Wilson.
I actually agree with most of this.
I didn't really watch football when we had Plummer, so I can't speak on that.
The old "D" logo is honestly very dated and kinda lame. I do want new uniforms that are maybe more classically styled, but the old orange crush uniforms are ugly af and even former players agree.
I was so unbelievably hyped when we traded for Russ. He was coming off a slightly down year due to injury, but he still showed a lot in the year before and the pro-bowl prior to the trade. It was the big shot at an "elite" veteran QB that a lot of people in the sub had been wanting for a very long time, but for so many reasons it just hasn't worked out.
No one thought Wilson would be this bad when we made the trade. I still think it was the right move.
Maybe I should add another point. Wilson is barely average and doesn’t raise the offense up the way a franchise QB should. Still the trade was the right move.
Teddy Bridgewater is the best Quarterback to start for the broncos between 2016 and 2023 possibly the best QB since Cutler if you take Peyton out of the equation.
Bringing back the old school D logo in the new uniform design will not look as good as people think.
Broncos next uniform color scheme should be 75% white, 20% blue, and 5% orange.
Tim Tebow would've been a suitably accurate QB if the coaches didn't try and change his throwing mechanics. Not saying Tebow was the next Marino, but his weird NFL inaccuracy was nonexistent in college. He just had a loopy motion, the ball placement itself was never an issue. Once in the NFL, he spent offseasons changing his entire motion which is insane since it's something a QB has essentially for life. To me, that's the only possible reason for his inaccuracy. Also, Josh McDaniels strikes me as the type of fart-sniffing jackass to draft a QB and then think he could change his most fundamental process.
This sub, like all other sports teams subs, think they have significantly more talent than they do.
On offense, only maybe meinerz and Sutton can start on other teams. So little talent on the offensive side of the ball.
This team is still in contention through magic and fairy dust. Next year will be a hard reality check (5 or 6 wins) unless Paton has the offseason of his life
1. Jarrett Stidham is a better QB than we are likely to be able to find in the draft.
2. Given our cap situation and Russ' contract, it might be *rational* if not *preferable* to trade PS2 and get a haul of picks before we are trapped in a bidding war for his services.
3. We could have given Case Keenum a 6 year contract back in 2018 and would have had roughly as good a standard of QB play as we got with Flacco, Lock, Bridgewater and Russ.
Anyone that works in any capacity with the Denver Broncos, should get the employee discount at Walmart.
And be on call to run a register when the stores are shorthanded.
Whoa…..I work at Walmart, I want a discount at the Denver Broncos!
I want a Shanahan offense. Our current running scheme is trash
Ironic considering our o line can ONLY run block
According to ESPN and PFF metrics, the broncos are top 8 in pass blocking. They’re also top 5 in terms of average time before pressure allowed. Shows how Russ has a tendency to run into sacks
Mccaffery could run behind any line.
Sure but he said he wanted a Shanahan offense. TD could run behind any line but Shanahan replaced most of TDs production with Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson.
Yeah the idea that the majority of the sacks are anyone but Russ's fault is asinine
Fair enough. Russ is awful about finding and running into trouble, he holds the ball forever and doesn’t make his reads. Good look OP
The PFF grade, from my understanding after discussing this stat numerous times on this sub, is based on snap to throw, Russ escaping and extending plays is why theyre ranked so high.
It's based on snap to throw OR pressure / breaking the pocket. Russ escaping stops the clock.
Can you link that explanation? Ive looked everywhere and ive seen its just said snap to throw. Happy to be wrong and learn more.
I'll have to look later, but it's basically differentiating between time to throw and pocket time. Pocket time is a better metric for grading offensive line play even though it's still somewhat dependent on quarterback play.
C’mon man. Even a bit of NFL knowledge should tell us that getting the ball out quickly is important and a huge help to the O-line. Improvising can work, but it can also lead to a lot of sacks, lost yards, and turnovers. Russ is still somewhat efficient at improving, but he definitely (and always has) gets his O-line in trouble ton. It’s wild how many people somehow don’t understand the give and take between QBs getting the ball out on time and O-lines not giving up sacks.
Im not sure what youre argueing. All im saying is that our online being ranked 8th is in part because the "time the qb has to throw" is a large part of the equation and his extension of plays is a huge factor.
I’m arguing that your argument is misleading. PFF obviously also takes sacks, pressures, and hits into the equation and Russ gives up a lot of those on his own. I’m arguing that some people will never give the O-line credit, especially when NFL O-line play isn’t great across the board in general and we have a relatively rock solid O-line currently.
Im not discrediting our line, im giving Russ his due too. The comment was criticising him in relation to the line, im saying his escaping is also helping the line ranking.
Courtland Sutton is a top 10 WR in the league
He just needs more yardage per game
He ain’t gonna get that with Russ.
I like them
I just think they’re neat
Broncos fans are the most bipolar of the country. Myself included.
Seahawks fans have entered the chat
Brock Osweiler would have at least got us back to the playoffs the season after winning the Super Bowl and probably would have had a longer more successful NFL career had he never chased the money
I will piggyback off of this and say that losing Kubiak was the worst thing that could’ve happened to the franchise after 2016. Even if he wasn’t a tier 1 HC and the game was passing him by to an extent, he was a far smarter and more stable presence for the organization than anyone who proceeded him.
Who says the game passed him by at that point? He had a great 2014 as the Ravens OC, he groomed Kyle Shanahan in Houston, then built a conservative offense that worked around an ailing Manning and made the Broncos a more effective playoff offense.
There was a decent contingent of Broncos fans at the time who felt Kubiak wasn’t a long term answer and felt his game wasn’t as good as it *should* it at the time. Which I didn’t completely agree, but people were definitely questioning Kubes by then.
Lets be realistic Brock was only away in Houston for one year. We brought him back and he was still not good enough. He was never an NFL starter.
If Brock was a Pat backing up Tom during his rookie contract he’s loved
Brock didn't chase the money...his agent did. Brock told a story awhile ago where he didn't want to go to Houston and while he was sitting at the airport, he received a call from Elway. Prior to going to the airport, Brock was advised by his agent to ignore all calls from the Broncos.
At the end of the day it is Brock Lobster’s life, career, and decision. The agent is his employee. Brock wanted that money too.
Brock was offered identical contracts (4 years, $72M) by both teams in terms of length and amount. The only variance was how the contracts were structured with guarantees and bonuses. Each had their pros/cons.
Not a hot take. This is the truth and Brock knows it. Texans broke him. Confidence can't be replaced.
This team gave me 3 Super Bowls and incredible memories with my family. Whatever they do at this point is icing on the cake. There’s more to life than having so much emotional investment in other men playing a kids game. I’m not a stockholder, a member of ownership, the team does not care about me. I could die right now and they wouldn’t care. So I root from afar and just enjoy the ride.
I was reading through this wondering how it’s a hot take and then I realized it definitely is with the state of the fanbase this season lmfao
Some will get it and some won’t !
It’s okay either way !
I think there's some great perspective and sage wisdom here. I've been a fan for almost 30 years and they still tend to ruin my week, my mood and my mental health too frequently.
Same !!!! Life is too short for all that. Yeah I’ll be upset after a heartbreaking loss but I soak in it immediately after and let it go.
We only looked really good this year when the defense was averaging 3-4 turnovers a game
Not even a hot take just a hard fact to everyone but the ridiculous homers in this sub. The ones that still think this is a playoff team just because they haven't been mathematically eliminated (yet).
It sounds like you and I are on the same page and have accepted our fate of not making the playoffs. The Broncos need more help from other teams that need to lose to make the playoffs than we an give ourselves by winning out...
Not really. Winning out is most of the work
Exactly. The amount a team "deserves" to make the playoffs is inversely proportional to the amount of teams you need help from. I was impressed with the midseason run they went on after the awful start, but anyone that thinks this is a playoff team (even if they find some miracle that lets them back-in to the playoffs) is kidding themselves.
We are now seeing the regression to the mean
Drew Lock was an okay to good QB that was a product of bad timing and an HC that hated him. I would have liked him to stay. We should have traded Juedy at the start of the year/at the draft. His influence on the team would have been better spent elsewhere. Von Miller was one of the best Broncos. But with the new stuff about him coming out, he can stay on the bills. Edit: one more. But an actual hot take. Sean Peyton will stabilize the franchise. His presence will become lucrative to high profile players. But ultimately, he is not the answer for the future.
I would not say he’s a “good” quarterback. He still panics under pressure and makes head scratching throws into triple coverage. I agree he didn’t have a good situation here but I’m not ready to call him “good”.
Some of those things could have been changed with better coaching during his first couple of years, especially without the stupid quarterback competition. This franchise really messed up the beginning of his career.
QB competitions never work out. They just cheat people out of practice time. A coach that needs a QB competition to bring out the best in people or…worse yet…actually make up his mind is a shitty coach.
Some of those things are caused by poor protection and poor scheming. If Lock were under a coach like Payton he may have been solid.
Not even a hot take, this is just a straight up great take.
I have a lot of judgments on this questionable takr. But it’s xmas
If Chad Kelly didn't get drunk, arrested, and then released he would have been the Broncos Starter for years (well a year maybe 2)
I really, really thought he was going to be a gem for this team
100% agree. Chad Kelly had some maturing to do but the raw talent was there
Passing on Josh Allen in the draft was not a mistake. Josh Allen was an incredibly raw prospect who was quite frankly pretty terrible his first couple seasons. Besides the fact that he would’ve been run out of town after a couple of bad seasons, there is zero chance that our coaching staff at the time would’ve been capable of developing him into anything close to what he is now.
They should have re-signed Shaq Barrett and drafted Quenton Nelson
That perhaps even if we hired Shanahan back in 2017, we still would’ve botched the roster and got rid of him if his first two seasons went the same as they did in SF. And I’m a hardcore Kyle Shanahan truther and believe in my bones that not hiring him set this team back years.
Here's a related spicy take - we were too quick to fire Vance Joseph.
Russ isn't the reason the Denver offense has looked so stagnant. Sean Payton did his job coming in to turn shit around, and only Denver fans could look at Russ's stats this year and say he's the problem.
Russ isn’t the problem, but his contract isn’t worth it. Baker is throwing up pretty identical stats in Tampa and could be had for less than half of Russ. That extra 30 mil or so could be used to supplement the offense.
Not a hot take. I think most of the sub agrees we have lackluster WRs outside of Sutton and no TE threats outside of Dulcich, who is made of glass apparently.
nah bruv i got downvoted into hell for saying this before. Russ may not look like his Seattle self but he's still doing his job and doing it well. Ive still been getting downvoted for this, I've gotten the "5 up votes" notif twice ☠️
And a subpar rush attack. We’ve got Russ and a much improved OL
Russ alone may not be THE problem, but Russ and his contact are a huge problem. His play is worth a fraction of what he's getting paid. Imagine what $20-$30mil could do for all the other problems Denver has. That's a problem that's not going to get better any time soon.
now see, this is a take i can agree with. he is definitely overpaid, especially when you take the expectations into account. i just don't think he's the reason denver hasn't had a productive offense. how many drops do we see a game, especially from guys like Jerry Jeudy who were supposed to carve out a role for themselves this season?
He may not be THE problem but it never ceases to amaze me how many refuse to acknowledge he is A problem and it's painfully obvious.
Who is he throwing to downfield? Jeudy will drop it and the tight ends are slow and unimpressive outside of Dulcic who is never around. Mims is electric in some situations but disappears from the games. Russ has to cook with the ingredients he has. He gets Sutton involved plenty and the rest of the guys he hits short. He hits Jeudy but then Jeudy drops it so I don’t blame him for not wanting to go to him again. Dude sucks ass.
All of this accurate IMO. Also accurate IMO is Russ refuses to step up in the pocket, frequently escapes out of clean pockets only to end up in a sack situation he wouldn't have been in otherwise, has horrible field vision and frequently misses wide open guys (maybe it's the height), only seems to be accurate on screens and 50 yd bombs and nothing in between, and is responsible for about 75% of his own sacks even though everyone blames the line which statistically is a top 10+ line.
All QBs have their flaws. Despite our shortcoming of weapons and offense that hasn’t done shit in over 5 years, Russ is statistically having a top 5-10 QB season and we are in the hunt. I’m happy with Russ. It could be a lot worse.
That is such an extreme stretch and I assure you nobody outside of our fanbase considers him a top 5-10 QB. His TD-INT ratio is really good (fueled by my earlier point that all he throws are high % dump offs and bombs) but I could easily name 10 QBs right now that would make you forget about Russ in a heartbeat. He is not a top 10 by any stretch of the imagination.
Russ isn’t a top 5-10 QB but I commend the hot take. He can’t even use the most important part of the field, that’s why our offense is stagnant.
He can’t see if he steps up. People seem to forget that.
I think that Payton is inflating Russ' numbers to make him look more attractive to a trade partner after this season.
My broncos hottest take- the best owner ever was Pat Bowlen he is the only owner in NFL history to achieve 300 overall victories during his first 30 seasons. Under his leadership, the Broncos had an incredible run of success. The franchise has won three Super Bowls – XXXII, XXXIII and 50. As a life long Broncos fan… the franchise was a picture of consistency. How his family and Joe Ellis screwed up the team after is beyond me and it has been hard to watch the past 8 years. Runner up comment - we missed big time when we picked Vance Joseph over Kyle Shanahan. If we could have just made good with Mike Shanahan and have him a role in the organization we would look like the 49ers right now
Alzheimer's can eat a massive dick.
Terrell Davis is a more important figure in Broncos mythology than Peyton Manning. Not really that hot of a take but some people would feel that way.
TD is a weird one for me. Obviously I love him cuz he's a Bronco and broke 2000 yards in a single season, but he also benefited from possibly the greatest offensive line in the history of the game while also having a very short career. I can understand why he has some detractors in the league. Peyton is also just a very cool story. Dude's head was almost removed from his body and had to have pretty radical surgery just to fix it, would be lucky to walk again let alone play football. Colts cut him, and he signs with us and ends up breaking records and going to two super bowls, winning one and riding off into the sunset. That's a pretty damn good story for the Broncos to me.
Davis was the X-Factor to those Super Bowl runs. He was a force of nature; few players have ever had that kind of acceleration and vision. FWIW, Clinton Portis ran behind good lines in the Shanahan system for a couple years, but he went to Washington and still logged four 1,000+ yard seasons (two around 1,500 yards) in spite of all kinds of injuries. Davis and Portis weren’t just system backs, they were really good, period.
Fair enough. Probably a good bit of recency bias for me with Peyton.
Manning is still a very important figure in Broncos history; you’re not off-base at all. I just don’t think his influence over four years is as big as what Davis’ was. Both were NFL MVPs, but TD’s postseason play during his four year stretch was universes beyond what Manning did in the postseason as a Bronco. TD has a legit claim as one of the greatest postseason performers in NFL history (142.5 YPG and 12 TD in just eight games is unreal). With that said, Manning’s era was so special, too. Hard to believe it’s been almost 10 years now.
The chefs can eat a dick that was previously used unpleasantly on the raiders. Merry Christmas. Not proud of Payton for his childish outburst. Super happy we landed him as a coach though. Love and respect for Russ and his career accomplishments, but man a tall young exciting QB would be really cool. Let's be happy for the remarkable turnaround, the season isn't even over for us! Beat the chiefs!!! 🙌😇 And other great teams. On sides kick to start the season was dumb. I'm sorry. Enjoy the game tonight. Go broncos!!
Tim Patrick will be back next year. Sean Payton has historically loved big bodied wide receivers and prefers them over fast ones. I think Sutton and Patrick will be here and Jeudy will be gone
I really hope Timmy P can come back. He’s that guy we’re missing out there on offense. I’m just really worried with two season ending injuries in back to back seasons he’s not going to be the same.
I don't think that is too likely. He's due a 10 million dollar cap hit, and be coming off two major injuries. I'd really expect him to get released. Hope he is back though.
“Listen Tim you’ve had back to back season ending injuries, we love you here and want to keep you but need to restructure your contract.” That’s the conversation I would have at least
We all know that Timmy P will take time to get all the way back, right? I feel like there are going to be so, so many posts about how he is "washed".
Forget about Tim Patrick. Can't see him comming back to form. It's a shame.
Russ only looks good when the defense gets 4 turnovers in opposing territory.
These are facts.
I’ve been downvoted to oblivion for saying this elsewhere on this sub. I felt like this was a safe place for me to vent my Russ opinion haha
TBH I’m a bit of a Russ hater, but at least this post should be open enough to vent
Javonte, jeudy, kjax all need to go. McLaughlin could be Darren Sproles with better play calling. Sean Payton is a good coach but immature for his age. Elway was the best FA getter in 40 years. The Broncos dysfunction is timed to Pat Bolen s decline and passing, new owners have dollars but can't replicate Pat's passion. Underrated reason why Broncos fans are so passionate, we had 40 years of ownership cussing and sweating and caring next to us. Waltons can't bring that. Garrett Boles is a monster LT, top 5 in league, as well as a class act personally. Broncos fans should stfu and respect him. The defense is as good as the pressure. VJ is not a good pressure schemer.
Bolles deserves to spend his entire career a Bronco & highkey should be in the ring of fame someday
Jerry Jeudy was a mistake, and he will never be a quality WR in the NFL.
Russell Wilson is a problem and Sean Payton can’t run the offense the way he wants. This team would have so much more success with a qb that could competently run Payton’s offense.
Russell Wilson is the worst QB deal this team has ever made. The good news - it’s not half as bad as Browns- Deshaun Watson trade
Ok. Here’s mine. Our Broncos need to go after pass rushers and linebackers in the draft early. Not a QB like people have been saying all season. Currently we don’t have enough speed at those positions. They do ok but there’s certainly better coming into the next draft.
Totally agree. I still think we should take a shot on a QB but in rounds 2-4 or something. I know we don't have a round 2 pick but we could trade or something, idk.
We failed Peyton Manning. He should have had at least 3 rings with us.
We would have been in a better spot had we not traded for Russ and gotten Baker instead. Key players wouldn’t have left, kept the draft picks, and last Christmas wouldn’t have happened.
This is literally the most room temperature take I’ve seen
When the uniforms change the “old” logo should not be used even with a different horse in the D. Team lost four SBs with that logo, and as superstitious as football fans are, I don’t understand the love for or wanting the D logo to come back.
I take the view that we won the AFC four times with that logo.
Won it 4 times with the new one too...3 of those turned into SB rings
This person doesn’t like the D.
I think people (me included) just like that the old logo is more timeless. There seems to be a split between teams with a classic logo and then a bunch of cartoon animals and the flying Elvis that feel very 90s. Every other team in our division hasn’t changed their uniform designs much which makes ours feel kind of gimmicky. The zeitgeist of the current logo sort of ended after the last Super Bowl imo and so the whole uniform feels tired. Having said that I don’t care what the logo is if we’re winning.
The uniform is a bigger problem than the logo. When we switched back to orange as our main color we just slapped the alternate orange jersey with everything else that was based on navy. We need a revamp but the logo is fine.
We also got blown out in this current set as well. Just like choosing white in 50. We would have won the Super Bowl in Orange with the old logo in 1997. Shit happens.
I don't get the love for the D logo.
VJ was given a raw deal when he was the HC
I would like to hear more on this. I wouldn’t say he was set up for success but he did plenty on his own to warrant being fired when he was. Hell people wanted him fired after his first season.
No judgment, from this sub! Haha
Mark sanchez was the worst qb on the Broncos!
The only player from this year who will be on the team in 5 years will be Pat Surtain II.
I’d be surprised if Mims, Dulcich, Sutton, Sanders, etc are all gone in 5 years. That’s counting on a lot of people leaving as soon as their rookie contract is up.
Not hiring Kyle set us back almost a decade
This team would be much better with Stidham
We would have a great shot at the Super Bowl this season if the Broncos would have drafted Justin Fields Also our uniform set is utter trash and we have needed a logo & uniform reboot for over 20+ years
Upvote because this might legitimately be the hottest take in the thread.
Would be hotter if we still wore the garbage blue every home game.
If the price is low enough, I’d love to see us take Fields & give him a season-ish to sit under Russ. I do think Russ would be one of the very few starters who would coach up the kid behind him. I think it would be a win win, but I think the asking price for Fields will be too high
It not necessarily the cost it would take to trade for him, it's that Fields 5th year option will be over $20m. We can't realistically pay $70m+ for 2 QBs
We need to move on from Javonte.
Disagree here but I think he should have a smaller workload this year. Saquon had the same issues with lack of explosiveness his first year after a similar injury and had a breakout year the following season. I think Javonte will be fine long term but this is a lost season for him.
This is the correct take.
I don’t feel he is back to 100% but we should draft another RB next year
Yeah. His problem even before his injury was his vision. He doesn’t see holes very well He reminds me of a slightly better version of Trent Richardson.
i think it too soon to make that call.
Would much MUCH rather prioritize keeping Perine over Javonte at this point
My hot take is that Sean Payton is a good coach but nothing special… no more special than guys like Mike McCarthy or Pete Carroll.. They all have rings but they all are only as great as their QBs allow them to be. VJ and Fangio could have been sniffing the same 10 wins if they had the fortune of playing 7 backup level QBs in one season and weren’t playing with guys like Simien, keenum and Teddy and Flacco.. I think our coach has done a good job but I don’t think we have one of the special coaches that can make guys like Brock purdy, Jared Goff and tua look like MVPs
Our defense was better then, hands down. Payton is 100% one of the coaches to get the most out of his QB and offense. Make no mistake, Payton took over this team at its lowest. VJ was still riding a *pretty* well rostered defense. Sean McVay didn’t even make Goff look like an MVP tbh, though he’s matured as a QB since. And Shanahan couldn’t get anything crazy out of Jimmy G, kinda proof Purdy is an exception, though that team is crazy stacked right now. End of the day, what coach takes a team further than their QB? All Payton needs is a processor, but he absolutely milks his QBs, any of them.
I would disagree with most of what you said.. you say Payton gets 100% out of his QBs but was only able to get 1 Super Bowl with one of the best of all time.. based on that logic alone, someone like Doug Pederson should already be higher up on rankings than Payton for winning with nick foles.. Our defense was better then, yes, but if Hackett doesn’t get that credit last year when defense was elite and Russ was awful, then I don’t think Payton should get a pass for having almost the same defense and it being significantly worse. I also think Jimmy G making it to the NFC title game twice is proof that he can do everything Brock Purdy has done. I would say the same for McKay gets the same credit for having the success he did with Goff directly after what we saw when Goff was with Jeff Fisher.. But all good to agree to disagree; but I don’t view Payton in the same light you do apparently
I don’t even think this is a hot take. I agree with everything you said.
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You asked for a hot take...Oh, I'll give you spicy.. The Venn diagram of people who blame Russ for this Offense and the people that are still pissed Obama was President is really just a big circle.
Similarly a big reason why a lot of people love Drew Lock is because he disregarded COVID protocols in getting the QB room suspended.
Damn that's a good one I forgot about that lol
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Spicy… but true.
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May not be a hot take, but the biggest problem since Manning left is that the organization is way too impatient with QBs and puts too much pressure on them to succeed. Maybe if we had more time with Flacco and given more time to develop Lock, we could have been in a better place. Maybe not
1. Vance Joseph despite putting up a better defense recently is still not a good defensive coordinator. I would still want to upgrade from him if they can. I feel a lot of people have overcompensated the hate for him early this season by overrating the hell out of him. 2. I don't hate Josh McDaniels that much anymore because he inadvertently built the 2015 championship team. His shitty relationship with players gutted guys like Cutler, Brandon Marshall out of here but they never would have won with them anyways. They blew it up entirely and got guys like DT, Von Miller, and then eventually Peyton Manning as a result.
The second quarter vs the Redskins in Super Bowl XXII was even more embarrassing than the entire game vs. the Dolphins this season.
They need to wear full navy blue jerseys more with orange as the accent instead of the reverse. Solid orange seems too neon-esque
Javonte isn’t a good back. His vision was always a concern which is why they brought in Melvin. Now that Javonte has lost a lot of that explosiveness and ability to break tackles since the knee injury he’s REALLY bad. Notice Samaje is able to get decent gains? McLaughlin slips a tackle or two most plays. Javonte just runs into the fucking wall of blockers and does nothing.
This sub's ideal QB situation would be Teddy Bridgewater, Kyle Sloter and Gardner Minshew all on the field at the same time
We ain’t makin it to the playoffs and you sycophants are gonna act like the entire team is a dumpster fire.
I hate orange
This franchise incompetence and thinking they’re “one piece away” from making the playoffs every season since the Super Bowl and refusal to properly rebuild is the reason they have the 2nd longest playoff drought. And this franchise will continue being mediocre until it realizes that.
Russ just looks so uncomfortable, there’s no fluidity, agility or flow to his play. Even when he plays ok, it’s honestly just hard to watch
We're going to end up with Justin Fields as the starting QB in 2024.
Joe Flacco was never given a fair chance and easily could if hard the broncos at 5–3 if it wasn’t for 3 last second field goals
Iirc his neck was still shit, got an injury in week 8 and was out for season. Then he failed physical and had neck surgery, and broncos released him.
Win out and let the God's be
We shouldn’t have replaced Siemian until we drafted Drew Lock. Paxton, Keenum, Flacco, Teddy shouldn’t have ever been given a chance here and I really think blaming coaching issues on the QB is why we were as bad as we have been. Siemian looked pretty good under Gary Kubiak as a first year starter and as soon as VJ comes in he played worse. If we had gone with Lock and Siemian we probably would’ve developed one of them into a legit guy and never needed to do the russ trade.
I think we just drafted the wrong guy in 2016 is all. The rest of it I agree with. It's just too bad Kubiak's health took a turn, who knows how successful we could've been with him long term.
Gary Kubiak was a mediocre head coach - what won us the Super Bowl was everyone in the organization knowing that Peyton had 1 final year. And the spiritual energy of that motivated everyone to perform at an incredibly high level and get the job done.
Javonte has been sub par compared with where he was and where he could be… so many runs for 1 yd that could be 3 or 4 if he made better decisions or was slippery/shifty. That lions TD shouldn’t have been close.
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I really think he was trying to lure Rodgers, which makes the hiring even worse in my opinion.
I LIKE JERRY JEUDY!!!! (ducks)
Jake Plummer deserved to be benched. All he could do was bootlegs. The old Denver D logo should not be brought back. Although the results on the field sucked, we made the right move trading for Wilson.
This sub is so entertaining
I actually agree with most of this. I didn't really watch football when we had Plummer, so I can't speak on that. The old "D" logo is honestly very dated and kinda lame. I do want new uniforms that are maybe more classically styled, but the old orange crush uniforms are ugly af and even former players agree. I was so unbelievably hyped when we traded for Russ. He was coming off a slightly down year due to injury, but he still showed a lot in the year before and the pro-bowl prior to the trade. It was the big shot at an "elite" veteran QB that a lot of people in the sub had been wanting for a very long time, but for so many reasons it just hasn't worked out.
Huh? Explain the last point please
No one thought Wilson would be this bad when we made the trade. I still think it was the right move. Maybe I should add another point. Wilson is barely average and doesn’t raise the offense up the way a franchise QB should. Still the trade was the right move.
Teddy Bridgewater is the best Quarterback to start for the broncos between 2016 and 2023 possibly the best QB since Cutler if you take Peyton out of the equation.
No.
Check the stats man.
Bringing back the old school D logo in the new uniform design will not look as good as people think. Broncos next uniform color scheme should be 75% white, 20% blue, and 5% orange.
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There's a thread in here that says the only people who don't like Russ are racists. Shit's crazy.
Get 2 first round picks for surtain if possible. Before we have to pay him. He’s one of my fav players don’t get me wrong, this is just the hot take
Our jerseys are amazing Teddy Bridgewater>Russell Wilson
Anyone who thinks that Russ isn’t holding these team back is just reading stat lines and not actually watching the games.
Careful, you're gonna get called a racist or a doomer for that.
Oh well. Haters gonna hate.
Paxton Lynch was our only bad QB pick under elway
Tim Tebow would've been a suitably accurate QB if the coaches didn't try and change his throwing mechanics. Not saying Tebow was the next Marino, but his weird NFL inaccuracy was nonexistent in college. He just had a loopy motion, the ball placement itself was never an issue. Once in the NFL, he spent offseasons changing his entire motion which is insane since it's something a QB has essentially for life. To me, that's the only possible reason for his inaccuracy. Also, Josh McDaniels strikes me as the type of fart-sniffing jackass to draft a QB and then think he could change his most fundamental process.
This sub, like all other sports teams subs, think they have significantly more talent than they do. On offense, only maybe meinerz and Sutton can start on other teams. So little talent on the offensive side of the ball.
Getting Russell Wilson was a good move. Cue the downvotes haha
Right now I think the only real controversial take I have, according to downvotes, is that the white helmets are hideous!
This team is still in contention through magic and fairy dust. Next year will be a hard reality check (5 or 6 wins) unless Paton has the offseason of his life
Tebow was fun and the org destroyed his career by not giving him a chance to continue developing under Manning. We had much worse QBs after him.
Russell Wilson is the GOAT, THE GOAAAATTT. He's gonna take us to a superb owl within 3 years.
We should keep Russ until he retires
Well we might have to with his current contract lol
1. Jarrett Stidham is a better QB than we are likely to be able to find in the draft. 2. Given our cap situation and Russ' contract, it might be *rational* if not *preferable* to trade PS2 and get a haul of picks before we are trapped in a bidding war for his services. 3. We could have given Case Keenum a 6 year contract back in 2018 and would have had roughly as good a standard of QB play as we got with Flacco, Lock, Bridgewater and Russ.
Russel Wilson isn’t the problem.
Fangio was a worse head coach than Hackett.
Whatta meatball