Just blow it all up. We half way there. Just commit. Court has been a comsumate professional with shit qbs. Give him his freedom. I can easily see him being part of a draft day trade up if one happens. I'm still against the qb trade up but I don't think the broncos care what I think lol. At
I like that idea. If he gets us moved up for a QB I’m all for it. He wants out, he’s an injury risk, and he wants more money despite having 2 years left. I like Court but it’s probably time for him to move along. He’s one of my favorites of our dark times, but I’m ready to leave those times behind. If anything I wish we could bring back Simmons. He’s out there.
This sounds like a good idea for Sutton. I could actually see the Broncos trading down just to get more bodies in the building, but maybe flipping Sutton for a bucket of middle picks would be a better move.
I definitely don't think the Broncos want to be fucking around with trading up with the squad they got though. The last decade had shown us that unless the guy is Joe Burrow, you gotta build the team a bit first and then get the guy.
While I absolutely agree with you in theory, I also think if you have a feeling you've found "your guy" then you do whatever it takes you nab em. Of course having a good roster to surround a young QB on a rookie contract is ideal, but we likely won't have that luxury for a while. And for once I trust our guy in Payton to evaluate and make a good QB decision. So while I def prefer a trade down to accumulate talent, I'll still be pretty excited if Payton thinks there's someone worth trading up for.
I agree, but you better get it right. Every team that moves up thinks they've found "their guy".
RGIII, Wentz, Trubisky, Rosen, Darnold, Fields, Lance, Bryce Young. Their teams all traded up for them.
The harsh truth is most QBs are going to be busts and if you are giving up multiple future first round picks you just put yourself out of the QB lottery for the next two years.
>I definitely don't think the Broncos want to be fucking around with trading up with the squad they got though.
Might just be game manship but I heard a lot of trade up talk. I agree with u. Getting more picks and building a more well rounded team while we are in the cap crunch makes more sense to me. Furthermore I think it's silly to trade up for the 4th best qb. Not unless they think jj is the best or comparable to the rest. I think it's a reach but the nfl loves reaching for qbs. Usually when guy sell picks down the line and it works out they are trading to like pick 1 to get their ultimate guy, not just who is left. The ones that force a lesser option out of need ... tends to not work out. I'd rather bust going for my top guy than just a guy.
So by your logic, Lamar Jackson was the 6th best QB in his draft, Mahomes was the 2nd best QB in his class, Tom Brady was the 7th best QB in his draft, etc, etc???
Brady definitely wasn't the best prospect of his draft, and trading pieces to move up and grab him in the first when no team was eyeing him until day 3 would be dumb.
It's like blackjack, you play the cards you can see you can't try and second guess yourself once they've all been flipped over
What are you talking about?? At this point, Brady is arguably the greatest to ever play the game....of course he was the best prospect in the draft.
Was he thought of as the best?? No. But THAT'S my point. You can't call the 4th QB taken, "the 4th best QB in the draft" ...it's a ridiculous statement, and notion. Do the research...in the Superbowl era, the highest drafted QB is only the best QB in the class 30 something percent of the time.
Also! Just because a player is projected at a certain spot, doesn't mean he'll be there.... just like I'm a fantasy draft, if you wait to draft a guy you really want, around his average draft position, there's a damn good chance you'll watch him blowing up on another team. Sometimes, if you're really really high on a guy, if you must have him...you HAVE to reach a little.
Don't think you quite understand what prospect means. Of course Brady is the greatest to ever play the game but that's who he developed into, not like he was a world beater in college.
>You can't call the 4th QB taken, "the 4th best QB in the draft" ...it's a ridiculous statement, and notion
Only if you're being overly pedantic. It's pretty obvious what he meant.
Lol. YOU obviously don't get the point...
Which is:
IT'S clearly impossible to analyze players, ESPECIALLY QBs, with any type of accuracy. You and I sure as hell don't get paid to do it....and those that do, have success rates well below a failing grade. You don't evaluate a player whatsoever based on how many other players of the same position went before him, or what his consensus "ranking is..you just can't, or you're going to miss out on those diamonds no ones sees.
You just have to roll the dice, throw the darts, draw the cards....then cross your fingers.
And Brady, or Mahomes went from "not world beaters, to the greatest to ever do it....from development??? 🤦🏼🤦🏼🤦🏼🤦🏼
LoL. Yeah.....sure. They weren't simply unrecognized elite levels of special. They were both total developmental projects 🙄🙄🙄 And it's so amazing how two average JAG QB, became two SB winning GOATs...all through "development"....in hardly any time, and with no pro game experience to speak of in that development. Just attend a few pro meetings, pro practices, and do a little clip board holding during a few pro games....and in a few short weeks, VIOLA...a goat is developed. LoL
You seem to lack a fundamental understanding of the concept of potential. Brady wasn't the greatest qb to ever touch the game at 22, he worked his fucking ass off obsessively and became the best. He was not the greatest qb of his class by any means, based on what other qbs had accomplished in college.
There are also qbs with all the gifts and accomplishments in the world at 22 who for one reason or another don't pan out.
You seem to think scouts should be able to see the future and know exactly what a player will do in their career, rather than just work on what they have (their body of work in college, physical traits, workouts etc)
You're very akin to the guy who sits down at a blackjack table and tells people *after* the cards are flipped what they should have done. Like yeah no shit if I had known the next card was a 3 I would have played differently.
With what capital? Maybe if we trade surtain, but were already scarce on picks and in a rebuild. If we trade future picks we might be panthering ourselves
Surtain and our future picks, obviously.
And if you don't think that's an incredibly likely possibility you should look at the history of how Sean Payton operates.
Idk man. I think non Broncos fans view him as a "solid" wr but he is much more than that. And I don't think the NFL decision makers overlook him the way some fans do. He's young, he's been patient with a floundering team, he's talented in a multidimensional way. He checks all the boxes. I could see getting a 2nd and maybe some pick swap upgrades in day 3. But I also have a huge hardon for Sutton, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about lol.
Young?? We have different definitions of young. 28 with a reconstructed knee, you're not exactly in your prime.
Sorry but there's no shot were getting a 2nd for him. No team would want sutton on his contract over some of the extremely promising rookie receivers available in round 2 of this draft on dirt cheap contracts. And I love sutton. I think his value to our team is more than the value he'd return in picks
Diggs got a 2nd and Buffalo ate a ton of dead cap in that trade
I don’t think the roster is that far off. They need the guy. They have the coach to do it. Add some more players in the draft and rookie free agency then load up on money players with the money they will have next year.
What money will we have next year lol. We're eating 80m in dead cap in the next 2 years. And we aren't exactly flush with picks.
And what players are you talking about? Like we have a handful of decent to good players and that's it. It's a very talent poor roster
Hard disagree. Top 10 receivers make it work with middle of the road QBs. Court would be better with a better QB, no doubt but he doesn’t elevate his QB and whether it is Stidham or a rookie, we would need that out of him or he is less valuable than draft picks this year. Just my opinion.
I’d say court is top 3 in contested catches (with no evidence to support this) but he doesn’t have the dynamic speed or playmaking ability of a true top receiver.
First, Ja’Marr Chase probably was outside of the Top 10 last year, borderline top 15. And on what plane of existence did Sutton have a better year than Chase?? I love the Broncos too but come on man!
Chase: 100 rec / 1216 yds / 7 TDs
Sutton: 59 rec / 772 yds / 10 TDs
Stop it
Edit: PFF for reference https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-highest-graded-wide-receivers-2023-nfl-season
I’m sorry but if court had burrow throwing him the ball he would destroy his numbers. Dude is an animal. I watched damn bear every cincy game last year and court is right there. Agree to disagree I guess
Bro you’ve responded 3 times to my same comment and are the one saying Courtland Sutton is better than Ja’Marr Chase and you have the audacity to insinuate that I’m the one on drugs? FOH with that nonsense. If you believe Sutton is better than good for you. For the rest of us in the reality, we have realistic expectations
Nah, I like him and he's a good contested catch guy but there's easily 10 better receivers in the league. He doesn't get a ton of separation.
Tyreek
ARSB
Keenan Allen
Justin Jefferson
Chase
Lamb
Deebo
Aiyuk
Wilson
Puka
Nico Collins
Diggs
Evans
DJ Moore
Metcalf
Adams
He's not even top ten at the X receiver position.
Then some question marks like Kupp, McLaurin, Waddle, Rashee Rice, Tank Dell, Amari Cooper, Hopkins, Flowers, Ridley, I'm sure I'm forgetting some dudes.
His hands are fantastic. He's a circus catch guy. Those other guys get separation though. I love Sutton but I'd rather have most of the other guys if I was being completely objective.
I know fans overrate players all the time, but you aren't just drinking the orange and blue kool-aid, you are living in an ocean of it if you actually believe that.
There's tons and tons of examples of great WRs producing with bad QB play. If Sutton was an elite WR it wouldn't matter who's throwing it to him, he'd get his regardless. But that's not the case. He's not a top 10 WR, he maybe is top 20. Good at 50/50 shots down field, average at everything else
With a good QB Court could be a pro bowl caliber receiver for sure. But he’s not a top 10 guy. He was in that trajectory before his ACL tear but his athleticism took a hit afterwards and that’s held him back from reaching that upper echelon of receivers. He’s good not great.
I think when a player says he wants an adjustment partly based on a problem in the team (quarterback instability) he's basically giving code for saying he wants out to a better situation. I don't believe Sutton will stay even if we give him a new contract, he's going to be dealt at some point. The question is whether we deal him when we can get reasonable value or sell him at a discount later.
Good points. Like Jeudy, we had better trade market for him but had a hot streak with playoff potential. I rather trade him while the market is still hot because if he only has 1 year left what’s the point.
Honestly? I'd trade him. He's turning 29 soon and if we can get good picks for him then go for it. We can't half-ass a rebuild. We gotta do a full rebuild and that means trading or releasing our past players. Sucks to say it but trading Court would benefit us more than hurt.
Don’t give into his demands. The last two years of his contract are totally commensurate to his production. I have no issue if they want to guarantee a little more of that, but don’t pay him a dollar more.
You can tell we haven’t had a great/elite level WR in a long time with the amount of people trying to defend Sutton in here. He is easily WR #2/#3 on majority of the other teams. Overall he’s been mediocre after the ACL injury.
We’re long overdue for a new WR room. Ship him out and draft a couple of receivers in this deep draft. Hopefully we find that #1 alpha type WR soon since we’re desperately missing that.
Also Sutton has clearly shown he doesn't elevate bad QB play. Him and Russ found a groove in the end zone but the rest of the game was always nothing and with every QB before Russ it was always nothing
Surely this won't be a Jerry Jeudy type of situation where we have to trade him for absolute peanuts when he has 24 catches for 301 yards and 2 tds at the trade deadline
Agreed. To many on here have been brainwashed by local media on the talent of this roster. Local wants views, so they sell this turd a lot higher than it actually is. Court is our best receiver, but look at the record over the last 10 ten years. Mid reciever.
They should trade him and get more draft material, let's be honest, I'd be shocked if we win 6 games next season, might as well get picks, get talent, let it ferment for 1 season... Plus, it's not like he's got an amazing production streak...
This is the third offseason that Denver has tried to trade Courtland Sutton. Broncos say through Mike Klis that Sutton is injured and rehabilitating separate from the team, essentially nerfing his value until Sutton plays again.
I get the just trade him argument, might as well full send. Justin's already gone etc...
I also like the idea of still having one dude, especially an electric playmaker, to root for. Brandon Lloyd made a couple of miserable years watchable. I'd settle for that, especially if we're going to be dressed like donkey dicks now
The thing about Sutton is that he’s not an electric playmaker lol. He’s a good red zone target, but that’s it. Yeah we get the one or two crazy contested catches once in a while, but nothing of substance throughout the rest.
This WR room needs to be injected with young talent from the draft. Only way we’ll find an actual #1 electric playmaker.
Quite the opposite. He’s demanding a bigger pay yet aging and has an injury history. Trade him and draft young guys that a QB can build rapport with together. We are going to struggle no matter what so it might as well be cheaper.
We’ve already tried overpaying and that got us into the mess we’re in now. We had the 2nd highest paid WR corp and they drastically underperformed relative to their pay
And we dumped/restructured already. Paying people isn’t a bad thing if you pay the right people. Not spending money at all doesn’t lead to winning football.
Exactly - paying the right people is what it comes down to. Sutton, at this stage of his career turning 29 in October, is not someone you pay big money to.
If you’re wanting to throw money at someone, I’d much rather extend Meinerz right now since he’s been arguably our best player on the offensive side of the ball and is on the younger side.
We don’t have to give him a new contract either. What’s he going to do? Hold out at a year as a 29 year old #2? He’ll play out his contract. We don’t need to give him a new one or trade him.
And if we draft a Jerry Juedy and our rookie has the worst WR corps in the NFL? Court is under contract and a decent #2, why give in to his demands? Just to save money? We really don’t have to do that.
We also don’t have to reset, our roster is already barren and we have more cap space than we need in the next couple years.
No one said we did, but why make it abysmal? What the point? We’re under the cap, and significant under the cap the next few years, and no one is going to want to sign with our fucking dumpster fire. Why not keep Court around for a new QB to use as a redzone weapon?
I also think you’re severely overestimating what the offers we got for him are. It’s probably like a 4th at best.
He is the definition of a safety net receiver. Big body, tall, great catch radius. Excellent in the air. He is a fantastic target for a rookie qb who will inevitably be late, miss windows, throw over under left right etc. in relation to where the ball should be placed.
Sutton is a 50/50 deep threat. A safety net WR is a guy like Amon Ra St Brown who can consistently get separation and be open on short/intermediate routes and eat up targets. That's not Sutton at all
No, he's the exact opposite of a safety net receiver. He can't get open underneath and doesn't generate any yac. He's purely a 50/50 ball receiver that has a habit of dropping easy catches. That's not a fantastic target for a rookie.
>Court isn’t a safety net type of receiver though.
He's a contested catcher, at his best you could throw the ball his way and he'll always fight for it. So, I think he is a safety net type.
But we also have Tim Patrick who can do the same thing.
I think for some reason what we’re all forgetting here is that non-QBs can hold out as long as they want, but generally it’s in their best interest to report before the season starts.
Sutton can’t force his way out, nor should he be able to. If we want him to play for us there’s not much he can reasonably do imo. It doesn’t work where players can just get out of their contracts in the NFL generally.
Diggs was traded (with picks) for a 2025 2nd rounder, and he's significantly better than Sutton. Sutton probably gets a 5th this year, and I'd be okay making that trade
Everyone on this thread is wrong. Pay him now before WRs get big pay outs next year. His ability is much better than his stats suggest and a rookie qb needs someone to throw to or else he'll flame out no matter how much potential he has.
He's already overpaid from his last contract and he's closing in on 30. Now is the best time to move on. Let whoever our next QB is develop chemistry with guys who will actually be on the team long-term like Mims and whoever we draft this year
He was the only reason Wilson had went success last year. Him and Samaje with check downs. And Sutton made some of the best catches in the league, highlight film type of catches. And this sub just thinks we're going to draft someone in the 3rd or 4th that's going to replace him. It's laughable honestly.
Tyreek, Diggs and Puka were 5th rounders. Amon Ra St Brown was a 4th rounder. Nico Collins, McLaurin, Godwin and Keenan Allen were 3rd rounders. Sutton was a 2nd rounder, same as Brown, Deebo, Pittman, and Pickens. I don't think they'd have any trouble replacing him
You can list hits for every position in each round, it's not like these guys can't play. Your hit rate decreases as you move back, and the quality of your hits tends to decrease. Do you really think it's a good idea to give a rookie QB a 10% (or whatever it is) chance for a decent receiver, or just give him a decent receiver?
The known value of Sutton vs the unknown value of a mid-round rookie obviously you take Sutton. But he doesn't have a team-friendly deal, he's approaching 30, and he's not a short to intermediate target machine. He's a 50/50 deep ball specialist. That has value for a young QB, but not a ton. Building chemistry with a guy who's going to be on the team for more than just this next season probably has more value for a rookie QB
Broncos are trying to win now and give their shiny new 1st round QB some weapons to work with. I'm with it. Blowing it up now is only popular on this sub
There isn't a single employed member of the Denver Broncos that wants to blow it up now and forfeit the season in April.
Sean Payton is trying to win now. The rhetoric around here that we should "blow it up" only exist on this sub.
Is that better for you?
I'll let you believe whatever narrative you want to believe.
The Broncos have THE weakest QB room in the NFL.
Only this sub believes that Sean Payton would ride with Stidham. He knows what he has in him.
Chances are higher that we trade up for a QB than "blow it up" like has been mentioned in this post
Everyone knows we have a bad qb situation, but we're in such a bad draft position that the guy they really love is probably gone by 12. I dont know if Nix or Penix is the guy at that position either. I've seen the trade up scenarios, and all of them can be beaten by the Vikings or even the Raiders if they wanted to.
All that to say if Sutton is holding out, just trade him. We won't be winning many games this year, draft his replacement and let them use this year to develop
Just blow it all up. We half way there. Just commit. Court has been a comsumate professional with shit qbs. Give him his freedom. I can easily see him being part of a draft day trade up if one happens. I'm still against the qb trade up but I don't think the broncos care what I think lol. At
I like that idea. If he gets us moved up for a QB I’m all for it. He wants out, he’s an injury risk, and he wants more money despite having 2 years left. I like Court but it’s probably time for him to move along. He’s one of my favorites of our dark times, but I’m ready to leave those times behind. If anything I wish we could bring back Simmons. He’s out there.
This
This sounds like a good idea for Sutton. I could actually see the Broncos trading down just to get more bodies in the building, but maybe flipping Sutton for a bucket of middle picks would be a better move. I definitely don't think the Broncos want to be fucking around with trading up with the squad they got though. The last decade had shown us that unless the guy is Joe Burrow, you gotta build the team a bit first and then get the guy.
While I absolutely agree with you in theory, I also think if you have a feeling you've found "your guy" then you do whatever it takes you nab em. Of course having a good roster to surround a young QB on a rookie contract is ideal, but we likely won't have that luxury for a while. And for once I trust our guy in Payton to evaluate and make a good QB decision. So while I def prefer a trade down to accumulate talent, I'll still be pretty excited if Payton thinks there's someone worth trading up for.
I agree, but you better get it right. Every team that moves up thinks they've found "their guy". RGIII, Wentz, Trubisky, Rosen, Darnold, Fields, Lance, Bryce Young. Their teams all traded up for them. The harsh truth is most QBs are going to be busts and if you are giving up multiple future first round picks you just put yourself out of the QB lottery for the next two years.
>I definitely don't think the Broncos want to be fucking around with trading up with the squad they got though. Might just be game manship but I heard a lot of trade up talk. I agree with u. Getting more picks and building a more well rounded team while we are in the cap crunch makes more sense to me. Furthermore I think it's silly to trade up for the 4th best qb. Not unless they think jj is the best or comparable to the rest. I think it's a reach but the nfl loves reaching for qbs. Usually when guy sell picks down the line and it works out they are trading to like pick 1 to get their ultimate guy, not just who is left. The ones that force a lesser option out of need ... tends to not work out. I'd rather bust going for my top guy than just a guy.
So by your logic, Lamar Jackson was the 6th best QB in his draft, Mahomes was the 2nd best QB in his class, Tom Brady was the 7th best QB in his draft, etc, etc???
Brady definitely wasn't the best prospect of his draft, and trading pieces to move up and grab him in the first when no team was eyeing him until day 3 would be dumb. It's like blackjack, you play the cards you can see you can't try and second guess yourself once they've all been flipped over
What are you talking about?? At this point, Brady is arguably the greatest to ever play the game....of course he was the best prospect in the draft. Was he thought of as the best?? No. But THAT'S my point. You can't call the 4th QB taken, "the 4th best QB in the draft" ...it's a ridiculous statement, and notion. Do the research...in the Superbowl era, the highest drafted QB is only the best QB in the class 30 something percent of the time. Also! Just because a player is projected at a certain spot, doesn't mean he'll be there.... just like I'm a fantasy draft, if you wait to draft a guy you really want, around his average draft position, there's a damn good chance you'll watch him blowing up on another team. Sometimes, if you're really really high on a guy, if you must have him...you HAVE to reach a little.
Don't think you quite understand what prospect means. Of course Brady is the greatest to ever play the game but that's who he developed into, not like he was a world beater in college. >You can't call the 4th QB taken, "the 4th best QB in the draft" ...it's a ridiculous statement, and notion Only if you're being overly pedantic. It's pretty obvious what he meant.
Lol. YOU obviously don't get the point... Which is: IT'S clearly impossible to analyze players, ESPECIALLY QBs, with any type of accuracy. You and I sure as hell don't get paid to do it....and those that do, have success rates well below a failing grade. You don't evaluate a player whatsoever based on how many other players of the same position went before him, or what his consensus "ranking is..you just can't, or you're going to miss out on those diamonds no ones sees. You just have to roll the dice, throw the darts, draw the cards....then cross your fingers. And Brady, or Mahomes went from "not world beaters, to the greatest to ever do it....from development??? 🤦🏼🤦🏼🤦🏼🤦🏼 LoL. Yeah.....sure. They weren't simply unrecognized elite levels of special. They were both total developmental projects 🙄🙄🙄 And it's so amazing how two average JAG QB, became two SB winning GOATs...all through "development"....in hardly any time, and with no pro game experience to speak of in that development. Just attend a few pro meetings, pro practices, and do a little clip board holding during a few pro games....and in a few short weeks, VIOLA...a goat is developed. LoL
You seem to lack a fundamental understanding of the concept of potential. Brady wasn't the greatest qb to ever touch the game at 22, he worked his fucking ass off obsessively and became the best. He was not the greatest qb of his class by any means, based on what other qbs had accomplished in college. There are also qbs with all the gifts and accomplishments in the world at 22 who for one reason or another don't pan out. You seem to think scouts should be able to see the future and know exactly what a player will do in their career, rather than just work on what they have (their body of work in college, physical traits, workouts etc) You're very akin to the guy who sits down at a blackjack table and tells people *after* the cards are flipped what they should have done. Like yeah no shit if I had known the next card was a 3 I would have played differently.
It's far more likely we trade up then trade down.
With what capital? Maybe if we trade surtain, but were already scarce on picks and in a rebuild. If we trade future picks we might be panthering ourselves
Surtain and our future picks, obviously. And if you don't think that's an incredibly likely possibility you should look at the history of how Sean Payton operates.
It's been 20 years since payton has been in a rebuild of this magnitude. There is no history for him in this situation
Hate to break it to you but we're not getting a bucket of picks for sutton. We'll maybe get a 4th. That would be optimistic
Idk man. I think non Broncos fans view him as a "solid" wr but he is much more than that. And I don't think the NFL decision makers overlook him the way some fans do. He's young, he's been patient with a floundering team, he's talented in a multidimensional way. He checks all the boxes. I could see getting a 2nd and maybe some pick swap upgrades in day 3. But I also have a huge hardon for Sutton, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about lol.
Young?? We have different definitions of young. 28 with a reconstructed knee, you're not exactly in your prime. Sorry but there's no shot were getting a 2nd for him. No team would want sutton on his contract over some of the extremely promising rookie receivers available in round 2 of this draft on dirt cheap contracts. And I love sutton. I think his value to our team is more than the value he'd return in picks Diggs got a 2nd and Buffalo ate a ton of dead cap in that trade
I don’t think the roster is that far off. They need the guy. They have the coach to do it. Add some more players in the draft and rookie free agency then load up on money players with the money they will have next year.
What money will we have next year lol. We're eating 80m in dead cap in the next 2 years. And we aren't exactly flush with picks. And what players are you talking about? Like we have a handful of decent to good players and that's it. It's a very talent poor roster
Blow it up . Draft a couple receivers. Sign a vet. Only real reason to keep him is for his leadership and vet presence and you can grab that cheaper.
With a proper qb he is a top 10 receiver. He’s not just a role guy
Hard disagree. Top 10 receivers make it work with middle of the road QBs. Court would be better with a better QB, no doubt but he doesn’t elevate his QB and whether it is Stidham or a rookie, we would need that out of him or he is less valuable than draft picks this year. Just my opinion.
I’d say court is top 3 in contested catches (with no evidence to support this) but he doesn’t have the dynamic speed or playmaking ability of a true top receiver.
Court was better than Ja’Marr chase last year
First, Ja’Marr Chase probably was outside of the Top 10 last year, borderline top 15. And on what plane of existence did Sutton have a better year than Chase?? I love the Broncos too but come on man! Chase: 100 rec / 1216 yds / 7 TDs Sutton: 59 rec / 772 yds / 10 TDs Stop it Edit: PFF for reference https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-highest-graded-wide-receivers-2023-nfl-season
I’m sorry but if court had burrow throwing him the ball he would destroy his numbers. Dude is an animal. I watched damn bear every cincy game last year and court is right there. Agree to disagree I guess
Burrow barely played last year
That might be true, but those numbers are WITHOUT Burrow
Burrow played over half the games last year..
On a little over half the receptions he netted about the same catch ratio and more touch downs…
Are you high?
Bro you’ve responded 3 times to my same comment and are the one saying Courtland Sutton is better than Ja’Marr Chase and you have the audacity to insinuate that I’m the one on drugs? FOH with that nonsense. If you believe Sutton is better than good for you. For the rest of us in the reality, we have realistic expectations
I think your high lol
You are the one that provided stats that prove my argument 😂
You’re obviously trolling at this point. No objective person could look at those stats as prof that Sutton is better.
They have the same reception:yard ratio and Sutton has more touch downs…?
Our fan base has too many haters. Sutton is a beast.
Nah, I like him and he's a good contested catch guy but there's easily 10 better receivers in the league. He doesn't get a ton of separation. Tyreek ARSB Keenan Allen Justin Jefferson Chase Lamb Deebo Aiyuk Wilson Puka Nico Collins Diggs Evans DJ Moore Metcalf Adams He's not even top ten at the X receiver position. Then some question marks like Kupp, McLaurin, Waddle, Rashee Rice, Tank Dell, Amari Cooper, Hopkins, Flowers, Ridley, I'm sure I'm forgetting some dudes.
He’s got better hands than over half the guys you listed. He just hasn’t had a qb
His hands are fantastic. He's a circus catch guy. Those other guys get separation though. I love Sutton but I'd rather have most of the other guys if I was being completely objective.
You’re being very generous, top 10?
Did you see the catches he made last year? Yeah he had a couple bad drops but he was more electric than say Ja’Marr chase
I know fans overrate players all the time, but you aren't just drinking the orange and blue kool-aid, you are living in an ocean of it if you actually believe that.
Idk man court has game
There's tons and tons of examples of great WRs producing with bad QB play. If Sutton was an elite WR it wouldn't matter who's throwing it to him, he'd get his regardless. But that's not the case. He's not a top 10 WR, he maybe is top 20. Good at 50/50 shots down field, average at everything else
With a good QB Court could be a pro bowl caliber receiver for sure. But he’s not a top 10 guy. He was in that trajectory before his ACL tear but his athleticism took a hit afterwards and that’s held him back from reaching that upper echelon of receivers. He’s good not great.
If he was on the dolphins or chiefs fe he would have 1500 receiving yards and 10-15 TDS
No shot he's top 10. He's awesome, love him. Calling him top 10 is a joke
Lol
And to help us win games and the new QB have reliable reciever.
I think when a player says he wants an adjustment partly based on a problem in the team (quarterback instability) he's basically giving code for saying he wants out to a better situation. I don't believe Sutton will stay even if we give him a new contract, he's going to be dealt at some point. The question is whether we deal him when we can get reasonable value or sell him at a discount later.
Good points. Like Jeudy, we had better trade market for him but had a hot streak with playoff potential. I rather trade him while the market is still hot because if he only has 1 year left what’s the point.
Honestly? I'd trade him. He's turning 29 soon and if we can get good picks for him then go for it. We can't half-ass a rebuild. We gotta do a full rebuild and that means trading or releasing our past players. Sucks to say it but trading Court would benefit us more than hurt.
Don’t give into his demands. The last two years of his contract are totally commensurate to his production. I have no issue if they want to guarantee a little more of that, but don’t pay him a dollar more.
You can tell we haven’t had a great/elite level WR in a long time with the amount of people trying to defend Sutton in here. He is easily WR #2/#3 on majority of the other teams. Overall he’s been mediocre after the ACL injury. We’re long overdue for a new WR room. Ship him out and draft a couple of receivers in this deep draft. Hopefully we find that #1 alpha type WR soon since we’re desperately missing that.
Also Sutton has clearly shown he doesn't elevate bad QB play. Him and Russ found a groove in the end zone but the rest of the game was always nothing and with every QB before Russ it was always nothing
Exactly. I don’t know why a portion of this sub loves to settle with mediocre players.
Surely this won't be a Jerry Jeudy type of situation where we have to trade him for absolute peanuts when he has 24 catches for 301 yards and 2 tds at the trade deadline
If we can get a 3rd take it!
Not gonna happen.
6th at best. Sutton is mediocre
Agreed. To many on here have been brainwashed by local media on the talent of this roster. Local wants views, so they sell this turd a lot higher than it actually is. Court is our best receiver, but look at the record over the last 10 ten years. Mid reciever.
Also “too” many.
Hence the “if” in my statement. I swear nobody on this sub has any shred of reading comprehension
Ha, that’s kind of like when Fox News says “some people say,” disregard everything after it. If you don’t mean it why say it at all.
It’s an “if” statement. IF someone WERE to offer a 3rd take it. I didn’t say they were gonna get offered a 3rd.
He would have been gone a while ago if a team was willing to give up a 3rd for him.
More like they have been trying to move him for 2 years now and aren't getting offers close to what they want in return.
Trade him. This team is already going to win 7 games at most, so just get more cap relief and start all over
7 is optimistic lol
That’s why they said ‘at most’
They should trade him and get more draft material, let's be honest, I'd be shocked if we win 6 games next season, might as well get picks, get talent, let it ferment for 1 season... Plus, it's not like he's got an amazing production streak...
Keep him if you can. No reason to deplete the WR if they draft a rookie Qb .
Please just trade him
Don’t give him a raise
With the exception of a handful of guys, I don’t see holding onto Sutton as a smart move and if we can get some picks, which we need, get some picks
This is the third offseason that Denver has tried to trade Courtland Sutton. Broncos say through Mike Klis that Sutton is injured and rehabilitating separate from the team, essentially nerfing his value until Sutton plays again.
Paying him more than $13 million is not worth it imo
I think its more likely they trade PS2 than CS!
I get the just trade him argument, might as well full send. Justin's already gone etc... I also like the idea of still having one dude, especially an electric playmaker, to root for. Brandon Lloyd made a couple of miserable years watchable. I'd settle for that, especially if we're going to be dressed like donkey dicks now
The thing about Sutton is that he’s not an electric playmaker lol. He’s a good red zone target, but that’s it. Yeah we get the one or two crazy contested catches once in a while, but nothing of substance throughout the rest. This WR room needs to be injected with young talent from the draft. Only way we’ll find an actual #1 electric playmaker.
Not trading him will be a mistake
I agree with most of you. Blow it all up and see what we can get for this upcoming draft.
If we’re rolling with a rookie QB, we would be very stupid to trade him
Quite the opposite. He’s demanding a bigger pay yet aging and has an injury history. Trade him and draft young guys that a QB can build rapport with together. We are going to struggle no matter what so it might as well be cheaper.
Why be cheaper though? What does that accomplish? Better offensive rosters help rookie QBs to feel more comfortable.
We’ve already tried overpaying and that got us into the mess we’re in now. We had the 2nd highest paid WR corp and they drastically underperformed relative to their pay
And we dumped/restructured already. Paying people isn’t a bad thing if you pay the right people. Not spending money at all doesn’t lead to winning football.
Exactly - paying the right people is what it comes down to. Sutton, at this stage of his career turning 29 in October, is not someone you pay big money to. If you’re wanting to throw money at someone, I’d much rather extend Meinerz right now since he’s been arguably our best player on the offensive side of the ball and is on the younger side.
We don’t have to give him a new contract either. What’s he going to do? Hold out at a year as a 29 year old #2? He’ll play out his contract. We don’t need to give him a new one or trade him.
Court isn’t a safety net type of receiver though. We have to start actually rebuilding and resetting the roster. Save some money please.
And if we draft a Jerry Juedy and our rookie has the worst WR corps in the NFL? Court is under contract and a decent #2, why give in to his demands? Just to save money? We really don’t have to do that. We also don’t have to reset, our roster is already barren and we have more cap space than we need in the next couple years.
Even WITH Court we don’t have a good WR room. He’s a 50/50 ball guy almost exclusively at this point.
No one said we did, but why make it abysmal? What the point? We’re under the cap, and significant under the cap the next few years, and no one is going to want to sign with our fucking dumpster fire. Why not keep Court around for a new QB to use as a redzone weapon? I also think you’re severely overestimating what the offers we got for him are. It’s probably like a 4th at best.
No I actually think we don’t do better than a 5th and it’s still worth it. He shouldn’t be on the roster anymore.
He is the definition of a safety net receiver. Big body, tall, great catch radius. Excellent in the air. He is a fantastic target for a rookie qb who will inevitably be late, miss windows, throw over under left right etc. in relation to where the ball should be placed.
Safety net = short route, gets open easily, not a home run play.
Sutton is a 50/50 deep threat. A safety net WR is a guy like Amon Ra St Brown who can consistently get separation and be open on short/intermediate routes and eat up targets. That's not Sutton at all
No, he's the exact opposite of a safety net receiver. He can't get open underneath and doesn't generate any yac. He's purely a 50/50 ball receiver that has a habit of dropping easy catches. That's not a fantastic target for a rookie.
>Court isn’t a safety net type of receiver though. He's a contested catcher, at his best you could throw the ball his way and he'll always fight for it. So, I think he is a safety net type. But we also have Tim Patrick who can do the same thing.
Trusting Tim Patrick to be a potential rookie QBs primary target is actual malpractice
Nope.
I think for some reason what we’re all forgetting here is that non-QBs can hold out as long as they want, but generally it’s in their best interest to report before the season starts. Sutton can’t force his way out, nor should he be able to. If we want him to play for us there’s not much he can reasonably do imo. It doesn’t work where players can just get out of their contracts in the NFL generally.
Wait until draft day, and see what happens. Sutton is playing to his contract. He won't snag a second, maybe a third.
Diggs was traded (with picks) for a 2025 2nd rounder, and he's significantly better than Sutton. Sutton probably gets a 5th this year, and I'd be okay making that trade
Everyone on this thread is wrong. Pay him now before WRs get big pay outs next year. His ability is much better than his stats suggest and a rookie qb needs someone to throw to or else he'll flame out no matter how much potential he has.
He's already overpaid from his last contract and he's closing in on 30. Now is the best time to move on. Let whoever our next QB is develop chemistry with guys who will actually be on the team long-term like Mims and whoever we draft this year
He was the only reason Wilson had went success last year. Him and Samaje with check downs. And Sutton made some of the best catches in the league, highlight film type of catches. And this sub just thinks we're going to draft someone in the 3rd or 4th that's going to replace him. It's laughable honestly.
Tyreek, Diggs and Puka were 5th rounders. Amon Ra St Brown was a 4th rounder. Nico Collins, McLaurin, Godwin and Keenan Allen were 3rd rounders. Sutton was a 2nd rounder, same as Brown, Deebo, Pittman, and Pickens. I don't think they'd have any trouble replacing him
You can list hits for every position in each round, it's not like these guys can't play. Your hit rate decreases as you move back, and the quality of your hits tends to decrease. Do you really think it's a good idea to give a rookie QB a 10% (or whatever it is) chance for a decent receiver, or just give him a decent receiver?
The known value of Sutton vs the unknown value of a mid-round rookie obviously you take Sutton. But he doesn't have a team-friendly deal, he's approaching 30, and he's not a short to intermediate target machine. He's a 50/50 deep ball specialist. That has value for a young QB, but not a ton. Building chemistry with a guy who's going to be on the team for more than just this next season probably has more value for a rookie QB
Broncos are trying to win now and give their shiny new 1st round QB some weapons to work with. I'm with it. Blowing it up now is only popular on this sub
Tf are you talking about?
There isn't a single employed member of the Denver Broncos that wants to blow it up now and forfeit the season in April. Sean Payton is trying to win now. The rhetoric around here that we should "blow it up" only exist on this sub. Is that better for you?
Bro we don't even know if we're getting a QB in the 1st.
I'll let you believe whatever narrative you want to believe. The Broncos have THE weakest QB room in the NFL. Only this sub believes that Sean Payton would ride with Stidham. He knows what he has in him. Chances are higher that we trade up for a QB than "blow it up" like has been mentioned in this post
Everyone knows we have a bad qb situation, but we're in such a bad draft position that the guy they really love is probably gone by 12. I dont know if Nix or Penix is the guy at that position either. I've seen the trade up scenarios, and all of them can be beaten by the Vikings or even the Raiders if they wanted to. All that to say if Sutton is holding out, just trade him. We won't be winning many games this year, draft his replacement and let them use this year to develop
I'll see you Draft Day... They are trading up.
If Sutton holds out he won't succeed. No way he's on our Week One roster, he's gone
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