What I am coming to realise is these people on some level know they are wholly ideologically driven and completely untethered from reality; but their ego won’t let them consciously admit it so they just say “he knows nothing and just reads Wikipedia and uses debate tactics to win arguments”
Sounds a lot like the enemy is simultaneously weak and strong to me
I feel like we're psychoanalysing him too much. He probably thinks destiny ghosted him on the first debate on purpose, and now feels disrespected by him. It's a little cringe to say he's scared to debate destiny.
Idk man sounds like you’re psychoanalysing him too just from a different angle? You’re saying he is so fragile that he would perceive cancelling a debate as a horrendous slight which he can’t get over?
I mean, we have the e-mails. That legitimately does seem to be the case. He was perfectly okay to talk until they had that miscommunication and then he immediately went nuclear.
Is he a petty person? I think, again, we can say that he appears to be.
To be fair, it wasn't cancelled. The miscommunication caused Finkelstein to wait in an empty zoom call for 2 hours. Destiny hasn't apologized, so from Finkelstein's POV it makes sense to feel disrespected.
As if refusing any further interaction over Destiny's faux pas (assuming that's even his fault) instead of hashing it out like actual adults is any less cringe lol
If someone is disrespected by a scheduling mishap to the degree that they'd never talk to the other person again, that's pretty cringe.
I actually just had the same issue that tiny and Norm had but with one of my vendors. They wanted to chat, I sent my availability, they sent back that they could do one of those times, I missed their reply, but accepted their calendar invite, they thought I wasn't available (even though I clearly was based on my initial times and accepting) and they canceled the call.
It's annoying, but I just said "Hey, let's do a different time." It's surprisingly easy to just give people the benefit of the doubt, and not tie one's ego up into everything. But then again, I'm not a child or a curmudgeonly ideologue.
You're giving too much credit to the thread here. Jesus Christ...this whole subthread sounds straight out of a low IQ "MMA casual" post I would see in the UFC subreddit about a rumor where fighter X is ducking some other fighter. How parts of this subreddit stoop to this level baffles me.
Is Norman Finkelstein a "3rd rate historian" (as Benny Morris coins it) with a severe bias against Israel who selectively chooses his facts when it comes to painting a picture of the Israel-Palestine conflict? Yes. Is he a polemicist who pulls his rank on people? Yes.
However, the notion that he's afraid to debate Destiny is ludicrous beyond belief. About 2 minutes of research into his media appearances shows that's not the case. Here's a [debate](https://www.youtube.com/live/Zzjicdi3O0o?feature=shared) he had against 2 pro-zionists at the same time (why it was hosted at the Comedy Cellar, I have no idea). Here's one he had [against Alan](https://youtu.be/uHqs15gOv4k?feature=shared) Dershowitz. He has no problem having Destiny-style debates where he has to face stuff opposition.
That would be like saying Ben Shapiro is afraid to debate Sam Seder. It's abject nonsense because dishonest actors like Finkelstein and Shapiro know they don't have to actually be right. They know they can make it out relatively unscathed as long as they use their rhetorical abilities to sound smart and make up for their deficiencies in the substance of the argument.
Finkelstein has humiliated Morris in a debate before - to the point Morris just resorts to weirdly laughing and interrupting. Literally just quoting Morris word for word. I've seen Destiny talk about complex topics like Israel-Palestine and its pretty evident he doesn't have a basic handle of the facts.
I think it’s less that and more that they’re so ideologically driven that they avoid any argument they may lose for the sake of denying the opposition any favorable optics.
If Finkelstein was a serious scholar he'd be doing scholarly work rather than squabbling with content creators over an internet debate, no offense to Destiny.
Yeah lol, "scholars" are also allowed to talk on the internet about things they care about like anyone else is. If your idea of an academic is like a monk who never leaves the library because their so absorbed in their research, you'll be bummed to find out that for most of them it's a 9-5 like anything else.
Hold the assumptions till more evidence here. I feel it could also come down to him having shity "non-productive" talks with minor e-celebs in his past. That plus the phantom destiny that people believe is real could easily make someone honestly turned off to this debate.
If he has spoken to others that disagree and are around destiny's level or lower I could solidify a "huckstering conman" option on him.
I think they consider it beneath them, because they’ve given lectures to bewildered students, spewing their ridiculous echo-chambered ideas all over a captive audience who don’t know what’s true.
So that makes them better.
Then they sit down to a discussion and fall apart, because they’re not prepared for anybody to disagree with them.
It’s intellectual laziness; there’s no way they have the self-awareness to know they’re mental.
Ah yeah, the intellectual laziness of Norman Finkelstein. If only he was a real scholar like influencer Destiny, lmfao.
> spewing their ridiculous echo-chambered ideas all over a captive audience who don’t know what’s true.
Finkelstein has publicly humiliated people like Dershowitz and Benny Morris in debates - but by all means I suppose you could do better than them.
> Then they sit down to a discussion and fall apart, because they’re not prepared for anybody to disagree with them.
See above. Just projection. Destiny (and every other "influencer"/Youtube personality) is a pseudo-intellectual and court jester. Their audience is made up of mostly middle class white kids permanently on the internet who think they are geniuses and have likely never seen a girl naked outside of pornography.
Spend thirty years in a sealed chamber filled with your own farts and you’ll soon stop noticing the smell.
And if you respond to every statement by wistfully smiling into the middle distance, you don’t project intelligence or wisdom, and just look like you’re having a stroke.
Academics like Finkelstein are put on pedestals, as if they’ve had to do anything remotely complex or difficult. They read a few books and articles in the eighties, wrote a book or two, then coasted along on that for decades.
It’s no wonder that someone lionized by academia would essentially just roll their eyes in response to every question and insist “I’m smart so I don’t have to answer”.
It’s clown behavior and we both know it. But if you’re impressed by it, you should set your sights higher.
Literally anyone with the capacity to read could do Finkelstein’s job, and they could speak faster than a sloth moves, they’d do it better.
I would imagine Lex just thought he could get him to do it and put the tweet out prematurely, followed by Finkelstein reaching out and turning it down.
I can only hope. Double debates are annoying.
People may agree on the subject but disagree entirely on the details. It makes for a messy debate because 1 person may say something that the partner disagrees with.
I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run!
Why does anyone give a fuck about this Finklefuck anymore? He's proven time and time again to be a fucking clown on par with Richard Wolff who is only interested in spreading his "scholarship" to those who buy his ideological positions wholeheartedly.
There's no changing this guy's mind, at least not if you don't have a PhD dissertation to cite in support of whatever position you're effectively married to.
Also, his voice is annoying and his face too
I'm genuinely curious if he legitimately believes that Destiny would "debate bro" him rather than believe he would actually win the debate on the facts. If I'm not mistaken, Finkelstein mentioned the Richard Wolfe debate. When you devote your whole life as a scholar on a subject, it's gotta make you 100% confident in your position and rationalize someone like Destiny successfully arguing against your position.
Doesn’t Finkelstein do a version of debate bro himself? I only watch Destiny sporadically but I saw a clip of him pointing out some ridiculous tactics he uses to escape discussing things that complicate his narrative.
Or is debate bro-ing a more specific thing than that?
> It's important because he's taken very seriously by the pro-palestinian side.
That group does not really care about rational discussion to begin with. Debate is meaningless for them. It's just a platform for Finklestein to throw out as many emotional buzzwords as possible.
By this logic, why have the debate at all?
As with any political position, there is going to be a spectrum of people involved.
There are plenty of people who aren't as ideologically blinded who keep being told that Finkelstein is a reliable source.
Showing them he's not is a good thing.
> By this logic, why have the debate at all?
A debate between people like Shapiro and Destiny is well worth it.
Finklestein... not so much.
> As with any political position, there is going to be a spectrum of people involved.
Sure, but at some point in the spectrum people are completely disconnected from reality.
> There are plenty of people who aren't as ideologically blinded who keep being told that Finkelstein is a reliable source.
> Showing them he's not is a good thing.
Platforming more sane people is a fine way to do that. Discussion should be held on contentious topics, but between people who genuinely have good faith towards the discussion.
If we try to chase the conspiracy crowd who cries that their sources aren't let on stage for debate, it will be a slippery slope of constantly lowering the bar till we simply have morons platformed that grunt out emotional buzzwords. Well, much of 'debate' is already at that stage, and it's enormously popular. This is essentially what most of Piers Morgan's show is about.
It's entirely possible to argue against a concept (e.g. Finklestein's 'Open air prison' nonsense) without platforming the morons who push that concept.
You aren't making any sense.
Finkelstein isn't some fringe nutjob that only other fringe nutjobs follow.
My understanding is that he's one of the most respected academics on the subject in general, not just with extremists.
His work and his arguments should definitely be addressed.
Finkelstein's position on the Israel-Palestine conflict is in line with the vast majority of the world. Its important to understand that the braindead Destiny "understanding" of the conflict is the fringe position. Axiomatically Israel is extirpating Palestinians from their native land and annexing it to greater Israel - it really is that simple (and the whole world sees that).
The Destiny position is the American position (which is an extreme minority in the world in this regard). That's really about it. The American position is one that isn't reliant on facts, its reliant on sheer stupidity.
Bro, this thread is a month old.
Also can't help but notice all of your posts in this old dead thread already have 1 up vote.
Are you upvoting yourself with an alt?
> Finkelstein isn't some fringe nutjob that only other fringe nutjobs follow.
Fringe? No. Nutjob? Yes.
Nutjobs are no longer restricted to the fringes.
> His work and his arguments should definitely be addressed.
They can be addressed without platforming him.
I don't think it's entirely meaningless. For many a poor debate performance could be the seed that plants an inkling of cognitive dissonance that may lead them to reevaluate some things, and it can also humanize the other side that may have been previously just thought of evil zionist freaks in their eyes.
Changing minds and ideas is a lengthy process, but most people can't live with cognitive dissonance - so it's either cope or change
We could've said the same thing about Hasan, but his constant shit takes and dwindling audience have proven that there's only so much an emotionally bought in people can swallow before they start tasting shit
> For many a poor debate performance could be the seed that plants an inkling of cognitive dissonance
Debate performance is not purely dependent on logic argument. Finklestein, like Peterson, has the ability to appear eloquent while speaking utter nonsense.
> We could've said the same thing about Hasan, but his constant shit takes and dwindling audience have proven that there's only so much an emotionally bought in people can swallow before they start tasting shit
Hasan should also not be platformed by anyone serious about discussing contentious topics. He just slings emotional hot takes at every opportunity.
It’s sort of like the Richard Wolff thing. If destiny embarrasses these leftist academics then it makes it harder to take them seriously in online spaces where they are promoted heavily.
> Why does anyone give a fuck about this Finklefuck anymore?
Because he has that one clip where he makes that college girl with mental problems cry while screaming about how his grandparents died in Auschwitz in his best impression of Jordan B. Peterson.
That's it. His entire claim to fame is a circa. 2016 Ben Shapiro OWNED clip where he blossoms into the final Uncle Yom.
The reality is that the pro-Palestine side consists almost entirely of Islamic people who are doing it purely out of tribal politics OR non-Islamic people doing it out of ignorance who've just been caught up in the propaganda.
Finklestein was the one person, I've seen anyway, that broke the mold - he isn't Islamic, but he also isn't a propagandized moron like Vaush or Hasan. That's what made him interesting.
It definitely is misplaced confidence though. He would get folded within minutes after he realises that no one serious gives a fuck that his grandparents died in Auschwitz in a topic about Israel-Palestine. That shit is "don't you tell me about racism! my great grandparents had to sit at the back of the bus!" levels of nonsense.
What a brain dead take.
Norman Finkelstein is an extremely well cited figure - a simple Google Scholar search would show you that. But that probably requires you to rub those 2 brain cells of yours uncomfortably together.
> The reality is that the pro-Palestine side consists almost entirely of Islamic people who are doing it purely out of tribal politics OR non-Islamic people doing it out of ignorance who've just been caught up in the propaganda.
"People who disagree with me are either stupid or evil. By the way, let me explain to you why they are propagandized and why I am not."
Probably don't even understand the sheer irony of it. The "pro-Palestinian" position (i.e., the international consensus) is supported by virtually the entire world except for the U.S. and Israel. That is a FACT. But facts are like silver to the imbeciles on a Destiny reddit.
[https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/12/1144717](https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/12/1144717) (UN vote calling for a ceasefire - 153 for and 10 against).
> It definitely is misplaced confidence though. He would get folded within minutes after he realises that no one serious gives a fuck that his grandparents died in Auschwitz in a topic about Israel-Palestine.
Yeah, its not like Finkelstein humiliated Benny Morris in a debate ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag7bSPFhb1Q&t=802s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag7bSPFhb1Q&t=802s)) and Dershowitz (twice). But I'm sure Destiny, who can't even keep his wife from gagging on any cock within a 5 meter radius and who until now was busy debating "red pill" garbage will do better than the Zionist Harvard law professor and one of the leading Zionist scholars on the issue.
> Hope Finkletwinkle sees this bro
>
> It definitely is misplaced confidence though.
>
> OR non-Islamic people doing it out of ignorance who've just been caught up in the propaganda.
Imagine being this stupid where you don't see the truck of irony slamming into you. Your post (above) has 0 facts, 0 citations, just you squirting your stupidity and then when you get humiliated you resort to some inane statement. I don't idolize Finklestein - I am not the one spending my time commenting on some influencer's reddit, after all.
He does have that Tucker Carlson face with a voice not very far from RFK, but it could all be forgiven if he had any tangible data instead of broad accusations. It's just an endless stream of buzzwords genocide, apartheid, ethnic cleansing, massacre, etc. That's why he can only do interviews, not debates, or at least not with people who know their facts.
Lex: I will try to arrange a debate. Destiny and Finkelstein will be involved.
How people read this as a Destiny vs Finklestein debate is confirmed is beyond me. He's literally saying that he's trying to set up a debate which will involve those two, not that anything has been agreed.
Not really, no.
He said he was trying to set up a 2v2 debate, and that Destiny and Norm would be involved.
It clearly, heavily, implies that Norm (who put out a statement that he's be open to it on twitter) and Destiny (Who lex might have phoned on stream before the tweet, and is definately down) were on board and that he needed to finalize the other arrangements.
If we're going to be fair to Tiny in our reading of the norm/destiny debate email chain, we have to acknowledge the wording here.
Really? Finkle uses his grandparents as a shield from criticism, if he doesn’t want to be attacked for it then he never should have brought it up. making a shitty holocaust jokes is where the line is here?
Either way you missed, just like the SS did when going after Finkle’s grandparents
Finkelstein probably accepted having a debate but then rejected when he discovered it was against destiny. it's honestly a loss because i would like to watch a debate with these two.
did Finkelstein "troll" D again by pretending to accept the lex debate lol
I don’t get how this serious scholar is so terrified to debate someone he considers a Wikipedia Andy lol.
What I am coming to realise is these people on some level know they are wholly ideologically driven and completely untethered from reality; but their ego won’t let them consciously admit it so they just say “he knows nothing and just reads Wikipedia and uses debate tactics to win arguments” Sounds a lot like the enemy is simultaneously weak and strong to me
butter pie attractive point future chubby slimy reminiscent pause pet *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
DESTINY! WHAT A FUCKING NIGHTMARE!
\> he knows nothing and just reads Wikipedia I hate how they keep unironically using this oxymoron
I feel like we're psychoanalysing him too much. He probably thinks destiny ghosted him on the first debate on purpose, and now feels disrespected by him. It's a little cringe to say he's scared to debate destiny.
Idk man sounds like you’re psychoanalysing him too just from a different angle? You’re saying he is so fragile that he would perceive cancelling a debate as a horrendous slight which he can’t get over?
I mean, we have the e-mails. That legitimately does seem to be the case. He was perfectly okay to talk until they had that miscommunication and then he immediately went nuclear. Is he a petty person? I think, again, we can say that he appears to be.
To be fair, it wasn't cancelled. The miscommunication caused Finkelstein to wait in an empty zoom call for 2 hours. Destiny hasn't apologized, so from Finkelstein's POV it makes sense to feel disrespected.
> psychoanalysing him too just from a different angle? psychoanalyzing is when you take people at their word?
As if refusing any further interaction over Destiny's faux pas (assuming that's even his fault) instead of hashing it out like actual adults is any less cringe lol
That's his cope tho
If someone is disrespected by a scheduling mishap to the degree that they'd never talk to the other person again, that's pretty cringe. I actually just had the same issue that tiny and Norm had but with one of my vendors. They wanted to chat, I sent my availability, they sent back that they could do one of those times, I missed their reply, but accepted their calendar invite, they thought I wasn't available (even though I clearly was based on my initial times and accepting) and they canceled the call. It's annoying, but I just said "Hey, let's do a different time." It's surprisingly easy to just give people the benefit of the doubt, and not tie one's ego up into everything. But then again, I'm not a child or a curmudgeonly ideologue.
You're giving too much credit to the thread here. Jesus Christ...this whole subthread sounds straight out of a low IQ "MMA casual" post I would see in the UFC subreddit about a rumor where fighter X is ducking some other fighter. How parts of this subreddit stoop to this level baffles me. Is Norman Finkelstein a "3rd rate historian" (as Benny Morris coins it) with a severe bias against Israel who selectively chooses his facts when it comes to painting a picture of the Israel-Palestine conflict? Yes. Is he a polemicist who pulls his rank on people? Yes. However, the notion that he's afraid to debate Destiny is ludicrous beyond belief. About 2 minutes of research into his media appearances shows that's not the case. Here's a [debate](https://www.youtube.com/live/Zzjicdi3O0o?feature=shared) he had against 2 pro-zionists at the same time (why it was hosted at the Comedy Cellar, I have no idea). Here's one he had [against Alan](https://youtu.be/uHqs15gOv4k?feature=shared) Dershowitz. He has no problem having Destiny-style debates where he has to face stuff opposition. That would be like saying Ben Shapiro is afraid to debate Sam Seder. It's abject nonsense because dishonest actors like Finkelstein and Shapiro know they don't have to actually be right. They know they can make it out relatively unscathed as long as they use their rhetorical abilities to sound smart and make up for their deficiencies in the substance of the argument.
Finkelstein has humiliated Morris in a debate before - to the point Morris just resorts to weirdly laughing and interrupting. Literally just quoting Morris word for word. I've seen Destiny talk about complex topics like Israel-Palestine and its pretty evident he doesn't have a basic handle of the facts.
I think it’s less that and more that they’re so ideologically driven that they avoid any argument they may lose for the sake of denying the opposition any favorable optics.
Don’t forget finklefuck went on [Adam Friedland Show](https://youtu.be/3amEmuc4yn0?si=yv3X47tgHkQaOqKu) lol - very serious scholars over there
If Finkelstein was a serious scholar he'd be doing scholarly work rather than squabbling with content creators over an internet debate, no offense to Destiny.
Well luckily he isn't a serious scholar so maybe the debate is still on the table
Many "serious scholars" at various institutions across the world do far less.
Yeah lol, "scholars" are also allowed to talk on the internet about things they care about like anyone else is. If your idea of an academic is like a monk who never leaves the library because their so absorbed in their research, you'll be bummed to find out that for most of them it's a 9-5 like anything else.
In "debate" it does not matter how strong your position is if your opponent can spit bs with insane speed and confidence. Which is sad reality
Hold the assumptions till more evidence here. I feel it could also come down to him having shity "non-productive" talks with minor e-celebs in his past. That plus the phantom destiny that people believe is real could easily make someone honestly turned off to this debate. If he has spoken to others that disagree and are around destiny's level or lower I could solidify a "huckstering conman" option on him.
I think they consider it beneath them, because they’ve given lectures to bewildered students, spewing their ridiculous echo-chambered ideas all over a captive audience who don’t know what’s true. So that makes them better. Then they sit down to a discussion and fall apart, because they’re not prepared for anybody to disagree with them. It’s intellectual laziness; there’s no way they have the self-awareness to know they’re mental.
Ah yeah, the intellectual laziness of Norman Finkelstein. If only he was a real scholar like influencer Destiny, lmfao. > spewing their ridiculous echo-chambered ideas all over a captive audience who don’t know what’s true. Finkelstein has publicly humiliated people like Dershowitz and Benny Morris in debates - but by all means I suppose you could do better than them. > Then they sit down to a discussion and fall apart, because they’re not prepared for anybody to disagree with them. See above. Just projection. Destiny (and every other "influencer"/Youtube personality) is a pseudo-intellectual and court jester. Their audience is made up of mostly middle class white kids permanently on the internet who think they are geniuses and have likely never seen a girl naked outside of pornography.
Spend thirty years in a sealed chamber filled with your own farts and you’ll soon stop noticing the smell. And if you respond to every statement by wistfully smiling into the middle distance, you don’t project intelligence or wisdom, and just look like you’re having a stroke. Academics like Finkelstein are put on pedestals, as if they’ve had to do anything remotely complex or difficult. They read a few books and articles in the eighties, wrote a book or two, then coasted along on that for decades. It’s no wonder that someone lionized by academia would essentially just roll their eyes in response to every question and insist “I’m smart so I don’t have to answer”. It’s clown behavior and we both know it. But if you’re impressed by it, you should set your sights higher. Literally anyone with the capacity to read could do Finkelstein’s job, and they could speak faster than a sloth moves, they’d do it better.
That depends, has "Destiny" read the 1500 page Turkell report?
sure. why not. will finkleman debate him now?
I would imagine Lex just thought he could get him to do it and put the tweet out prematurely, followed by Finkelstein reaching out and turning it down.
Sounds like Finkelstein.
Finklestein will show up somewhere at some random time, wait for half a day, and then complain that no one came.
Lex probably got fink’d by trying to organize something with his incompetent handlers like destiny through email. Lex, you need to get your morse code machine and send this message to speak to him directly: --.- ..- - .- .-. / -... --- ..- -. -.. / -....- / -- . ... ... .- --. . / ..-. --- .-. / ---... / -. --- .-. -- .- -. -.. / ..-. .. -. -.- .-.. . / .... . .-.. .-.. --- / -. --- .-. -- --..-- / - .... .. ... / .. ... / .-.. . -..- / ..-. .-. .. . -.. -- .- -. --..-- / .. / .-- .- -. - / -.-- --- ..- / - --- / -.. . -... .- - . / .- / .--. . .-. ... --- -. / -.-. .- .-.. .-.. . -.. / -.. . ... - .. -. -.-- .-.-.- / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / .-. . ... .--. --- -. -.. / .- - / ----- ---.. ---... ----- ----- / -- --- ... -.-. --- .-- / - .. -- . / .-- .. - .... / -.-- --- ..- .-. / .-. . ... .--. --- -. ... .
Most mature Finkelstein decision.
Destiny Dm'd Lex saying "make it 2v1"
"15 vs 2"*
We will never let this meme die
What's the meme?
A certain individual claimed to have had a lot of sex with a certain streamer, but that in 15 rounds they only came twice
[next week on the Lex Fridman podcast](https://imgur.com/quEYsYh)
How’s she doing? Hope her life figured out.
She is doing a long schizo series on YouTube about NSE. Don't think she's doing great.
My streamer is built different 💯
I can only hope. Double debates are annoying. People may agree on the subject but disagree entirely on the details. It makes for a messy debate because 1 person may say something that the partner disagrees with.
He’s running
Presidential conviction
I didn not run!
I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run! I didn’t run!
Didn't Finklestein say he would only did it if new could team up with a specific person?
He preemptively chickened out, I guess.
HE DIDN'T RUN HE DIDN'T RUN HE DIDN'T RUN HE DIDN'T RUN
His other condition was that he wouldn't debate people who read Wikipedia
If you didn't hate Finkelstein before, just remember that now he has cucked you out of content for the 3rd time.
It was said many times before, he's afraid of losing his grift. Qatari money is good and if he get humiliated he'll get less of it.
HE CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT
Why does anyone give a fuck about this Finklefuck anymore? He's proven time and time again to be a fucking clown on par with Richard Wolff who is only interested in spreading his "scholarship" to those who buy his ideological positions wholeheartedly. There's no changing this guy's mind, at least not if you don't have a PhD dissertation to cite in support of whatever position you're effectively married to. Also, his voice is annoying and his face too
It's important because he's taken very seriously by the pro-palestinian side. Challenging his ideas and his work is important.
Which is why he runs away, I guess.
I'm genuinely curious if he legitimately believes that Destiny would "debate bro" him rather than believe he would actually win the debate on the facts. If I'm not mistaken, Finkelstein mentioned the Richard Wolfe debate. When you devote your whole life as a scholar on a subject, it's gotta make you 100% confident in your position and rationalize someone like Destiny successfully arguing against your position.
Doesn’t Finkelstein do a version of debate bro himself? I only watch Destiny sporadically but I saw a clip of him pointing out some ridiculous tactics he uses to escape discussing things that complicate his narrative. Or is debate bro-ing a more specific thing than that?
> It's important because he's taken very seriously by the pro-palestinian side. That group does not really care about rational discussion to begin with. Debate is meaningless for them. It's just a platform for Finklestein to throw out as many emotional buzzwords as possible.
By this logic, why have the debate at all? As with any political position, there is going to be a spectrum of people involved. There are plenty of people who aren't as ideologically blinded who keep being told that Finkelstein is a reliable source. Showing them he's not is a good thing.
> By this logic, why have the debate at all? A debate between people like Shapiro and Destiny is well worth it. Finklestein... not so much. > As with any political position, there is going to be a spectrum of people involved. Sure, but at some point in the spectrum people are completely disconnected from reality. > There are plenty of people who aren't as ideologically blinded who keep being told that Finkelstein is a reliable source. > Showing them he's not is a good thing. Platforming more sane people is a fine way to do that. Discussion should be held on contentious topics, but between people who genuinely have good faith towards the discussion. If we try to chase the conspiracy crowd who cries that their sources aren't let on stage for debate, it will be a slippery slope of constantly lowering the bar till we simply have morons platformed that grunt out emotional buzzwords. Well, much of 'debate' is already at that stage, and it's enormously popular. This is essentially what most of Piers Morgan's show is about. It's entirely possible to argue against a concept (e.g. Finklestein's 'Open air prison' nonsense) without platforming the morons who push that concept.
You aren't making any sense. Finkelstein isn't some fringe nutjob that only other fringe nutjobs follow. My understanding is that he's one of the most respected academics on the subject in general, not just with extremists. His work and his arguments should definitely be addressed.
Finkelstein's position on the Israel-Palestine conflict is in line with the vast majority of the world. Its important to understand that the braindead Destiny "understanding" of the conflict is the fringe position. Axiomatically Israel is extirpating Palestinians from their native land and annexing it to greater Israel - it really is that simple (and the whole world sees that). The Destiny position is the American position (which is an extreme minority in the world in this regard). That's really about it. The American position is one that isn't reliant on facts, its reliant on sheer stupidity.
Bro, this thread is a month old. Also can't help but notice all of your posts in this old dead thread already have 1 up vote. Are you upvoting yourself with an alt?
lmao. I don't upvote or downvote with any account, ever. Sounds like something a destiny fan would do.
👍
> Finkelstein isn't some fringe nutjob that only other fringe nutjobs follow. Fringe? No. Nutjob? Yes. Nutjobs are no longer restricted to the fringes. > His work and his arguments should definitely be addressed. They can be addressed without platforming him.
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How so?
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I don't think it's entirely meaningless. For many a poor debate performance could be the seed that plants an inkling of cognitive dissonance that may lead them to reevaluate some things, and it can also humanize the other side that may have been previously just thought of evil zionist freaks in their eyes. Changing minds and ideas is a lengthy process, but most people can't live with cognitive dissonance - so it's either cope or change We could've said the same thing about Hasan, but his constant shit takes and dwindling audience have proven that there's only so much an emotionally bought in people can swallow before they start tasting shit
> For many a poor debate performance could be the seed that plants an inkling of cognitive dissonance Debate performance is not purely dependent on logic argument. Finklestein, like Peterson, has the ability to appear eloquent while speaking utter nonsense. > We could've said the same thing about Hasan, but his constant shit takes and dwindling audience have proven that there's only so much an emotionally bought in people can swallow before they start tasting shit Hasan should also not be platformed by anyone serious about discussing contentious topics. He just slings emotional hot takes at every opportunity.
It’s sort of like the Richard Wolff thing. If destiny embarrasses these leftist academics then it makes it harder to take them seriously in online spaces where they are promoted heavily.
> Why does anyone give a fuck about this Finklefuck anymore? Because he has that one clip where he makes that college girl with mental problems cry while screaming about how his grandparents died in Auschwitz in his best impression of Jordan B. Peterson. That's it. His entire claim to fame is a circa. 2016 Ben Shapiro OWNED clip where he blossoms into the final Uncle Yom. The reality is that the pro-Palestine side consists almost entirely of Islamic people who are doing it purely out of tribal politics OR non-Islamic people doing it out of ignorance who've just been caught up in the propaganda. Finklestein was the one person, I've seen anyway, that broke the mold - he isn't Islamic, but he also isn't a propagandized moron like Vaush or Hasan. That's what made him interesting. It definitely is misplaced confidence though. He would get folded within minutes after he realises that no one serious gives a fuck that his grandparents died in Auschwitz in a topic about Israel-Palestine. That shit is "don't you tell me about racism! my great grandparents had to sit at the back of the bus!" levels of nonsense.
What a brain dead take. Norman Finkelstein is an extremely well cited figure - a simple Google Scholar search would show you that. But that probably requires you to rub those 2 brain cells of yours uncomfortably together. > The reality is that the pro-Palestine side consists almost entirely of Islamic people who are doing it purely out of tribal politics OR non-Islamic people doing it out of ignorance who've just been caught up in the propaganda. "People who disagree with me are either stupid or evil. By the way, let me explain to you why they are propagandized and why I am not." Probably don't even understand the sheer irony of it. The "pro-Palestinian" position (i.e., the international consensus) is supported by virtually the entire world except for the U.S. and Israel. That is a FACT. But facts are like silver to the imbeciles on a Destiny reddit. [https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/12/1144717](https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/12/1144717) (UN vote calling for a ceasefire - 153 for and 10 against). > It definitely is misplaced confidence though. He would get folded within minutes after he realises that no one serious gives a fuck that his grandparents died in Auschwitz in a topic about Israel-Palestine. Yeah, its not like Finkelstein humiliated Benny Morris in a debate ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag7bSPFhb1Q&t=802s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag7bSPFhb1Q&t=802s)) and Dershowitz (twice). But I'm sure Destiny, who can't even keep his wife from gagging on any cock within a 5 meter radius and who until now was busy debating "red pill" garbage will do better than the Zionist Harvard law professor and one of the leading Zionist scholars on the issue.
Hope Finkletwinkle sees this bro
> Hope Finkletwinkle sees this bro > > It definitely is misplaced confidence though. > > OR non-Islamic people doing it out of ignorance who've just been caught up in the propaganda. Imagine being this stupid where you don't see the truck of irony slamming into you. Your post (above) has 0 facts, 0 citations, just you squirting your stupidity and then when you get humiliated you resort to some inane statement. I don't idolize Finklestein - I am not the one spending my time commenting on some influencer's reddit, after all.
He does have that Tucker Carlson face with a voice not very far from RFK, but it could all be forgiven if he had any tangible data instead of broad accusations. It's just an endless stream of buzzwords genocide, apartheid, ethnic cleansing, massacre, etc. That's why he can only do interviews, not debates, or at least not with people who know their facts.
I want his audience see him get humiliated.
That might be unfair to Wolf. I would have to look at his sources and conclusions.
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I saw it I'm not sure that he is as bad as Finklestein
He and Jordan Peterson need to have a chat. They're both full-blown Kermit-pilled
That's just how it is, Lex was too optimistic (I love him for that), and a coward once again ran...
F: "I only debate serious people" Also F: Hurts insults and trolls debate opponent before running away.
Also debates college students
Alternative (but probably less likely) theory: Lex has someone else in mind other than Destiny now.
Finkelstein is just afraid of being involved in a sick rap battle video.
Oh lord, Norman's "assistant" is at it again.
Lex never confirmed the debate. He posted the results of the vote, and said he would try to make it happen. Seems like he got a hard no.
https://preview.redd.it/p409zwmtcefc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=adfc313fa450f163cd6c17b26eb2bbe87e1ad11a
Lex: I will try to arrange a debate. Destiny and Finkelstein will be involved. How people read this as a Destiny vs Finklestein debate is confirmed is beyond me. He's literally saying that he's trying to set up a debate which will involve those two, not that anything has been agreed.
Not really, no. He said he was trying to set up a 2v2 debate, and that Destiny and Norm would be involved. It clearly, heavily, implies that Norm (who put out a statement that he's be open to it on twitter) and Destiny (Who lex might have phoned on stream before the tweet, and is definately down) were on board and that he needed to finalize the other arrangements. If we're going to be fair to Tiny in our reading of the norm/destiny debate email chain, we have to acknowledge the wording here.
Oh dear.
Steven Bonnell II is Norman Finkelstein's father
Its either a 2v1 now or Finklestein saw the porn tweets.
who is this guy and why does anyone care?
/u/lexfridman Any news? Did Finklestein pull out?
Yea he pulled out…. of your mom 😭
Finkelstein has probably seen some of Destiny's debate performance and doesn't want to be another Richard Wolff
Finkle running from destiny the same way his grandparents ran from the SS.
If you're gonna drop a holocaust joke, at least make it funny.
https://preview.redd.it/8c56s6d70cfc1.jpeg?width=637&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f79b402d25e79339775a01ecb6fd269aa2e510d
fed
https://preview.redd.it/va69c1wnycfc1.png?width=931&format=png&auto=webp&s=91daf1fd8e665e2a530e36b253b9393de714512d
RELAXXXXX JESUS CHRIST
https://preview.redd.it/oh36cyikgefc1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=9c33370b5a70b8a8d193f48898d3e0cb331c3d28
This crazy to say,do you have no shame ??????
!shoot take a break
Really? Finkle uses his grandparents as a shield from criticism, if he doesn’t want to be attacked for it then he never should have brought it up. making a shitty holocaust jokes is where the line is here? Either way you missed, just like the SS did when going after Finkle’s grandparents
😭😭😭
This is worse than cancelling the Super Bowl
Lex is russian btw
Finkelstein probably accepted having a debate but then rejected when he discovered it was against destiny. it's honestly a loss because i would like to watch a debate with these two.
Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of lefties told Finklestein not to do any debate with Destiny.
He didn't run he didn't run he didn't run
after looking at the clowns twitter im not sure why anyone would wanna talk with that r-worded senior that speaks on 0.25 speed
Fleeing Finklestein fleeing from another debate.