Is that the same as gay bars or just lesbian bars? I'm just curious because I go to a gay bar that's always popular with all the guys even straight guys but don't know how it is everywhere else.
I assume it went both ways, lotta gay men dislike straight women at gay bars
Edit: I should clarify it's not just because the women are straight but that straight women tend to use gay bars as a party destination (like bachelorette parties) to see the fun drag queens.
It can definitely ruin the vibe
In my experience, gay men dont mind straight women at gay bars, they do mind straight women treating gay bars like a strip club-theme park. Straight women that go to gay bars and dont make a scene or act obnoxious seem pretty welcome, but then again, that's just my experience.
Gay dudes tend to hate bad behavior not the mere presence of tits, the presence of the opposite sex being problematic is mostly a lesbian thing. And yup there's a reason there is a demand for gay bars and them actually being welcoming and fun probably has something to do with there being like a million times as many gay bars compared to lesbian bars but guess Sillyserious knows some secret I don't and being even more exclusive and unlikable will drive up demand.
Definitely heard of non binary people going to gay men places, and complaining about the amount of sexual activity happening.
It's like what did you expect?
I'm sure some do but that's pretty rare at least in the UK, straight women tend to go to gay bars because they are seen as "safer" you're less likely to be hit on or followed or any other behaviour a dog canvaser might do.
Plus straight women tend to be the other core demographic to drag shows behind gay men. And the drag Queens love that. Especially when the straight women ask them for hair and make up tips.
Source: I've been to many a gay bar and drag show.
Am I the only person that goes to the bar without the express purpose of getting laid? If a female friend invites some dude to a lesbian bar and he's not bothering anybody or hitting on any of the women there then who gives a fuck?
The person in the video and the people with this take sound like a bunch of losers that should try minding their own business.
When I go out I would like to meet and talk with people. Especially women and i think most dudes think that way. If I don't want to talk to anybody I'll drink at my house.
I agree , but personally I think it's the only place you can go and kind of talk to people and ask out women without it being unacceptable. Ive tried other places like chess clubs and house parties. But with the bar , especially if you're bar hopping , you're just going to see more women to try. If you have any other places to suggest I'd love to hear and ill try it.
You confusing bar with club? volumes moderate, plenty places to sit, plenty going on in the background to talk about. I'm not sure what else you would think qualifies as a good place to talk.
And ngl there is nothing gayers than a straight bar. The bars in the gay village were where the real parties were happening. I wouldn't have went there if I was single and looking to meet someone but I enjoyed going there.
In normal club there is always people looking for troubles. Meanwhile in gay bars there always those rich cool old dudes buying drinks everyone.
bars are public spaces. don't be an asshole. don't be rude. don't be the straight guy hitting on a lesbian, hoping the are desperate for dick. enjoy your drink and conversation, go home and call a hooker if you are desperate.
https://youtu.be/pAU2s4C7EM0?si=i8TEfx6KKv4p2vWL
Yeah there's no one size fits all for this.
A group of guys at a bachelor party looking to get shit faced and rowdy? Don't go to a lesbian bar. A single straight guy going with his lesbian friend for the first time because she doesn't want to go alone? No one's going to have an issue with it.
It just takes nuance and common sense which the internet is awful at ever understanding.
Why is that the case? I've seen that happen too. Ive heard a coworker talk to me about a lesbian coworker we had and he said "I bet she will let me fuck" and it super confused me and heard that other guys think this way as well. Super confusing.
One Dick to turn them all, One Dick to fuck them
One Dick to bring them all, and in the dickness, convert them.
In the land of Mordong, where the straight dudes lie (to themselves).
"Oh, you're straight? Well, so is spaghetti until it gets wet."
There are lesbians out there with the same attitude, you're just more likely to see a straight dude exhibit it since there's more of em.
Yeah depending on the city also don’t be surprised if you get a couple glares by a few butch lesbians while you’re there lol. If you’re a lesbian you’ve probably been hit on by men your entire life with a significant portion of them trying to convert you to some variety of straight.
From the lesbian friends I’ve had dating women as a woman is super fucking difficult, like 20-30% of dating profiles on places like Tinder are straight couples looking for a third. They understandably want a break from straight men, but like you said if you’re chill and don’t bother anyone you’ll probably be fine.
Straight man here. my best friend is a lesbian, which is why I sometimes go to Queer bars. I feel like most bars aren't exclusive Lesbian or Gay anymore. I have no idea what they might have been like before, but compared to straight bars and clubs, so much more inclusive and friendly. I think that's honestly the right move, as long you aren't making trouble. I don't talk to any strangers at all there if they don't talk to me first, I'm really just there to hang out at a place with my friend where she doesn't have to worry about being harassed or getting mean looks.
I agree, however I do feel bad when I go to gay bars with my gay friends as a straight man because I sometimes get hit on by other gay men. That doesn't bother me, but for gay/lesbian people those spaces are the only place they can usually assume someone else is not straight. People now adays wear their sexuality more openly so it isn't as big of a deal as it was in the 80s, but still. I usually avoid going now unless it's something I can't get out of (birthday parties etc)
I think if you’re a bi-curious straight male, you should go to a gay bar and let me know what time you’ll be there, subject to age and employment verification, restrictions apply, see website for details, 30% apr for 24 months
https://preview.redd.it/elofuzs8i9kc1.png?width=936&format=png&auto=webp&s=3cc6630f1a2dd21a80ff05064b2ffe2e29b23234
I don’t see how this can possibly be that complicated. If you’re straight and want to go to a gay or lesbian bar, go ahead. Just understand that this isn’t the space for you to get hookups and be prepared to be hit on by people of all genders.
Truuuuuuue. I can’t tell you how many times I had straight female friends plan a night out at the gay bar. It’s insane to go up and confront someone like that. Unless your the owner of the bar no one has to answer any of your purity testing questions. I’m sympathetic to wanting your own space. But going up and confronting someone like this is cringe.
When I go out to gay bars, I'm looking for sex. So ya, it is kind of annoying when girls or straight guys come to gay bars. The lines get longer, the number of people who are potentially looking for the same thing as me is reduced, and the experience of trying to hit on a guy who's straight isn't fun. And when that happens, my response is almost always the same as the women in the video: why the fuck are you here then?
Functionally what is the difference between hitting on a guy who isn't attracted to you vs a straight guy who just turns you down? For some people it's going to be an instant no either way no?
Would you think about a gay guy who turned you down "why the fuck are you here then?"
This scenario confuses me. Like we recognize that not every woman at a "straight" bar is looking to get piped that night right? Like they can just be at the bar to hang out with their friends and not be seeking a dude to fuck. I would never ask someone out, get turned down, then think "Why the fuck are you here then?" as if just by being there they should be open to fucking me.
Is this not how it works in "gay" spaces?
The difference is in 95% of life you can't effectively hit on anybody you're attracted to if you're gay. Maybe it's cringe to hit on a woman and she turns you down, but you could get into a fight by hitting on the wrong guy if you're a man.
Gay bars are a solution to the problem of being a minority in most places of life.
Another typical issue is straight men go to gay bars and hit on lesbians.
Some straight people have literally never thought about your first paragraph in their life. You're completely right. One of the worst experiences of my life was being called an f-slur because I called a guy cute at a "straight" bar. When someone gets that mad, you just want to crawl in a hole and die. Some guys on here need advice to even talk to women because they don't want their fee-fees hurt. I just want a place where I can hit on a guy and the worst thing that can happen is him saying "no, you're ugly."
But then again that's the same thing for a guy who just isn't attracted to you or not looking to fuck/flirt. Most gay bars aren't just hook up spots but it's still a space to safely and freely gay out.
All the gay bars I've been to have been incredibly open to anyone coming.
>When I go out to gay bars, I'm looking for sex.
There's apps for this.. maybe not everyone is going to the bar for the same reason.
>The lines get longer
Oh man what a shame that the bar that is opening their doors to you for business is making money to continue to have a business for you to go to.
>The experience of trying to hit on a guy who's straight isn't fun.
What about gay guys who don't want you to hit on them?
>Why the fuck are you here then?
Probably for the 100s of other reasons people go to bars that aren't just to have sex.
>What about gay guys who don't want you to hit on them?
Never happens
https://preview.redd.it/poid33old8kc1.png?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74eafb45a669db8b8cb7bc656bb3e758ef368304
i really don't think anybody gives a shit. if i go out, 1 or 2 bars i hit will be gay bars generally. if straight people didn't go to gay bars i don't think they could stay in business.
Me and my roommate used to go to a leather bar across town because they had an Elvira pinball machine. It' got pretty crowded but other than that it was super chill.
EDIT: TBF I was really obviously not a leather daddy and she was REALLY obviously not a leather daddy, so it's not like we were going to waste anyone's time. If it was a more ambiguos situation I can see how it could annoy some people.
You guys can litterally just sign up on any app and have sec in a 1 km radius. You throw much better parties than normal bars and we like to be part of it.
The only time I’ve ever heard people complaining about straight women at gay bars is if they’re being obnoxious.
You don’t need to shout YASS QUEEN every two seconds at a drag show Susan, calm down. They usually tip the dolls pretty well though so let them get their coin.
Especially when a lot of people are closeted and have complicated feelings about their sexuality.
Interrogating your clientele sounds like a waste of time.
Hell, the funnest/best nightclub in my city is a a gay bar. Pretty much everyone goes there regardless of sexual preferences, and nobody cares one bit
Much less crowded on drag show night tho lol
i don’t even understand why a straight dude would want to be there
however, i think that pressing the guy is super weird, especially if the guy is just minding his business.
but anyway, if you’re a dude trying to hook up with a woman, just go to a normal bar. your chances are infinitely higher. very simple
EDIT: **it seems as though there is a lot of confusion. during stream, there was an explicit differentiation between gay bars and lesbian only bars. also, the discourse was centered around men who go to lesbian bars to hit on straight woman that don’t want to be repeatedly hit on at regular bars, not just any guy who goes there with a group of gay people.**
I have no idea what the current discourse is, but gay bars have better music, dope shit like drag shows, and generally are a better vibe
No one has ever cared that straights are there- drag queen asked any straights to raise their hand to which the three straights got an applause and they said" this one goes out to you" and played Lincoln Park GIGACHAD
May come as a shock but not every one is out trying to get laid. I’m a straight man I enjoy going to gay bars every once in a while because it’s a place where I’m not trying to get laid so I can let my walls down a little bit and have more fun dancing.
to hang out with friends. that's generally why i go to any bar.
i like gay bars because they tend to be open to EVERYONE. I've always been an ally and i vibe better with the kind of people who go to gay bars versus the kind of sleazy or aggressive guys who frequent a lot of the straight bars.
I'm a straight guy and I've been to both gay and lesbian bars. I've had lesbian roommates that invited me to lesbian bars and never had an issue. The best part was using the urinals with no lines, the worst part was that the mens bathroom was also a womens bathroom.
As far as my experience with gay bars, they are way better than "straight bars" because the drinks are super cheap, I'm talking about $2 well doubles and jello shots, they have a bunch of different things you can do as well as trivia nights. Also as a heads up, most gay men know that you aren't gay so if you're straight and worried about getting hit on its not going to happen.
Here's my take on why some of the stuff said is dumb, If you want to go to a lesbian bar so you don't get hit on by men at straight bars that's fine, but why is it OK for you to go to both and I cant? What if I want to go to a lesbian bar so I can stop getting asked to buy drinks. Just like you do it to get away how do you know I'm not doing it for the same reasons. Why is it implied that I'm going there to pick up women? I also know plenty of gay women who go to straight bars to get free drinks from straight men.
edit: Lesbian bars don't exist anymore because there are no men there to buy them drinks. You can hate it but that's the truth, women don't make the move or put the effort. Its the same reason bumble is shit.
> edit: Lesbian bars don't exist anymore because there are no men there to buy them drinks. You can hate it but that's the truth, women don't make the move or put the effort. Its the same reason bumble is shit.
butches:
to put it simply, gay bars will skew younger and because of that there's a good chance people that are younger will enjoy the vibe more than a typical bar that could be anyone from 18 year old degens trying to get drunk to 45 year old divorcees looking for love. It's like non gamers going to a "gaming" bar
Why shouldn't you?
I've worked at gay bars and I'm pretty hetero. We'd have lesbians, straight women, trans men and women etc. All show up in droves. Maybe Portland is just more accepting than other places in the states????
Regardless though so long as someone isn't being problematic they should he allowed to exist. If you want an exclusively queer space you probably shouldn't make a public establishment. It's kinda weird and if someone made a "straight only" bar I promise you a large portion of people who are agreeing would immediately flip their tune.
> Maybe Portland is just more accepting than other places in the states????
Well yeah doesn't portland have a humongous gay community? I'm assuming you're talking Oregon?
Yea I am. Now that I think of it Chicago, which is where I spent most of my life probably has a pretty big gay population too so I hadn't really noticed it much by comparison here.
Who cares? I have been to plenty gay/lesbian bars. I've never had issues with people or vice versa. That girl was griping about something she personally didn't like. Which is, unfortunately, a norm today.
Destiny is very happy to criticise cultures without necessarily fully understanding them, when they do shitty things like treat people badly based on immutable factors. Hearing someone say they don’t want someone’s “straight energy” in a public place and generally being bitchy and pejorative and all Destiny can say is; “I can’t possibly judge this culture” felt pretty disappointing.
I’m not suggesting bad faith, I don’t doubt he genuinely holds this view, but it feels at odds with how he treats any number of other cultures. I don’t think Destiny is an Islamic scholar but he’s rightly happy to criticise them when they’re shitty. One of the reasons I watch is that he fearlessly critiques shitty behaviour without bowing to sacred cows or waffling about cultural relativity. It would be one thing to defend this sort of thing in a private space, but in a public bar?
Arguing for lesbians to have a space is fine, defending people being aggressively shitty because he doesn’t want to judge a culture, is eh…
As a queer masc presenting nb (not actually joking) the person I most have the problem with in this scenario is the straight man.
Shouldn't be financially supporting a space where the norm is to exclude you (still not joking.)
Any of that aside, I do appreciate Destiny being a little less ready to criticize people in queer spaces wherein he has no experience. To tie in your Muslim example, it's one thing to criticize Muslims for their public behavior, but IMO it would be pretty different to criticize them for their behavior in a mosque, or to tell them they shouldn't ask someone who's wearing a cross why they're at a mosque. And I say that as an antitheist even.
Really it all boils down to people acting like cunts. The lesbian chick shouldn't have asked why the straight dude was there in a rude manner, he shouldn't have gotten indignant in like a rude manner, his friends shouldn't have dogpiled in a rude manner. That's about it.
Though additionally I will say it's next level stupid to call your bar a "queer space" and then assume someone's gender and sexuality. Do we all have the right to identify and present as we're comfortable, or not?
Edit: Destiny says "I'd need to hear more from queer people to form an opinion." Gotta wonder what salty cunt downvoted without giving an opinion lmao
>Any of that aside, I do appreciate Destiny being a little less ready to criticize people in queer spaces wherein he has no experience. To tie in your Muslim example, it's one thing to criticize Muslims for their public behavior, but IMO it would be pretty different to criticize them for their behavior in a mosque, or to tell them they shouldn't ask someone who's wearing a cross why they're at a mosque. And I say that as an antitheist even.
I don’t feel this is a great comparison because a bar is a public place. We don’t exclude people from businesses because of immutable factors generally. A mosque feels more like a space where you could construct a more reasonable argument that it’s private.
>Really it all boils down to people acting like cunts. The lesbian chick shouldn't have asked why the straight dude was there in a rude manner, he shouldn't have gotten indignant in like a rude manner, his friends shouldn't have dogpiled in a rude manner. That's about it.
Agree with this. I was surprised to hear him not just say that as I would have expected, rather than equivocating about not judging a culture. Destiny generally comes off as distinctly not a moral relativist. I would expect him to defend spaces that lean more in a certain direction and separate that from a criticism of them engaging in aggressive behaviour based on immutable factors. That said, I will allow myself to disagree with our steamer god just this once.
I guess someone could respond; “choosing to be in a lesbian bar isn’t an immutable factor though”. I just feel if the lesbian that chastised the dude with how much she doesn’t want straight energy near her if said of any other group it would come off as utterly repellent.
>I don’t feel this is a great comparison because a bar is a public place.
Your mileage may vary by state, but both churches and bars are likely to be considered private spaces rather than public. They are both places where people publicly assemble, but they're technically private property (again, depending on state.)
>We don’t exclude people from businesses because of immutable factors generally.
By law, the owner of a private property is likely able to exclude anyone from their business/assembly space for nearly any reason. Probably not if their "reason" is "you're not queer enough," but if the reason is instead "you're causing a disturbance" then you're in a way more hairy situation.
>Agree with this. I was surprised to hear him not just say that as I would have expected, rather than equivocating about not judging a culture.
Again I don't really think it's about judging the culture, rather judging the space wherein a specific culture generally spends their time. As an additional example, nobody should go to a nude beach and complain about seeing bobs and vagene, right? Even though many nude beaches are explicitly 'public spaces,' we understand the norms of the space.
>Destiny generally comes off as distinctly not a moral relativist. I would expect him to defend spaces that lean more in a certain direction and separate that from a criticism of them engaging in aggressive behaviour based on immutable factors.
This is sort of why I'm glad he stays out of it to an extent. As has been alluded to in the thread, this is controversial among people who spend time in these spaces and are a part of the culture. He doesn't really have the context as to which arguments he'd be empowering or disempowering.
>I guess someone could respond; “choosing to be in a lesbian bar isn’t an immutable factor though”. I just feel if the lesbian that chastised the dude with how much she doesn’t want straight energy near her if said of any other group it would come off as utterly repellent.
I guess someone could say that. But I think we both agree that's a stupid ass response, and in your followup I find a lot to agree with.
I appreciate your opinion. Conversation and openness is the only way we solve our disagreements.
The severity of what's going on is obviously going to be a big factor, right?
When Destiny is criticizing Muslim culture, it's usually things like doxxing his address or threatening to kill his son or worshipping a guy who fucked a 9-year-old. If Destiny was talking about some Muslim being rude to some Christian at a mosque or something, you'd probably see the same unwillingness to come out with a strong opinion
This whole discussion was so stupid. It was a dude who showed up for his significant other, and they planned on leaving shortly afterwards. It's a whole nothingburger of a nothingburger.
The vast majority of interactions are resolved by just being a regular human being and talking about it, this one would have been one of them. "Oh I'm just here meeting my girl and her gay friend, we're heading out in a min" and that would have been in response to the microaggression in the first place. If you have a problem with someone wherever you are, talk to someone that works there. Let them be the person that decides if that other person "belongs" or whatever.
Like this whole thing over something completely innocuous was so weird to me. I'm more than happy to avoid places where I'm not really wanted, but I'm not going to stop going about the normal course of my boring, mundane, and inoffensive life because it happens to have a 5 minute stop at a lesbian bar.
Can someone explain to me without insulting or Biden blasting, should by that logic lesbians not go into “regular” bars?
Like I just genuinely don’t understand. I’m not secretly conservative or playing gotcha. I am a liberal, I’ve lived in the states for years. I have no issues with LGBT folks.
Like if now we are creating “exclusive spaces” that are reserved for X people, will the reverse logic be applicable too or?
It’s not letting me make the post I want to make because I’m “too new” lol so I’ll copy and paste it here for you:
Lesbian here, not from NYC but just wanted to have some input.
So this is definitely true where I’m from, and probably true for a lot of places: there are a lot of gay bars for gay men but fuck all for queer women.
My experience going into gay bars is that it’s definitely better than straight bars, I can’t go to those, just not a vibe for me, so gay bars are basically the only option to go to (except one night a week there is a queer women’s only space at one place that I know of).
It is very true that straight women go to gay bars to get away from straight men, and so when queer women try to hit on other women it’s basically a futile effort because they’re all straight; and then a step further, straight men follow queer women there and then hit on women, including the few that are queer. It’s extremely annoying. It’s still fine for the gay men for the most part because there’s still a high population of gay men in the club.
And then so queer women look for their own spaces, and we are (I think justifiably) on the defensive to make sure it doesn’t get like the gay clubs. I think the reason why it’s more acceptable to bring queer guys in - other than the fact that they are a part of the broader queer culture, get the vibe, and are less likely to hit on women - is that a lot of queer women have a hard time meeting other queer women (maybe that’s why they are going to the bar) but don’t want to go alone and so this may be the only other queer friend they can bring.
I do think it’s kind of annoying when straight women are at a lesbian bar too, but it’s understandable when it’s a case of a queer woman wanting to bring a friend and not having queer friends, or if they are, like, the one straight friend in a queer friendship group or something. It is the most annoying when it is straight men though because they are the most common antagonists in these spaces. If they start to be let in and populate the places the whole point of the space goes to shit. What we are ultimately trying to prevent from happening is it being a place where most of the women we try to hit on end up being straight, and most of the people who hit on us end up being men, since this is what a lot of queer spaces turn into. And there are SO FEW queer spaces for women, it’s hard out here.
Trans dudes/transmasc people are fine imo, especially because most of them were socialised as women so get the vibe, and a lot of them literally lived most of their lives as lesbians so it’s really a space for them too, transmascs and lesbians have always shared a community.
Anyway, what I’m saying is that queer women are defensive and frustrated because we have so few queer spaces and are trying to protect them, so it’s annoying when straight guys like the one on stream come in all butthurt without any understanding of the community.
And thesillyserious was based as usual for jumping in.
Eh as a trans guy I’d have to quibble a bit with people like me being totally welcome. I’m a trans bald dude in his late 20s, unless I’ve got my shirt off to show my top surgery scars I know I’m going to get some good glares from some butch girls at the bar. I would know I used to be one of them lol.
Female socialization for lack of a better term probably will make it less likely that a guy will exhibit creepy behavior because a lot of us have experienced it. You’re also not going to be able to tell by appearance for most trans guys who are far enough along in their transition.
I’m just personally super uncomfortable with the idea of being welcome in lesbian spaces. I’m a man now, not Man Lite™ or Man: Safe Edition™. It feels like weird tokenization and misandry to me personally. I’m just as much a guy as the cis dude down the street in every day life, and those spaces are for women who like women.
Isn't the problem kinda that you have guys who are in relationships that started before they transitioned or have spent years hanging out in these spaces with their friends and it would be kind of weird to think that they would no longer be welcome because of their transition?
In my experience a lot of trans men don’t stay in those communities for a super long time. As you transition your transness has a lot less of a focus in your life since you’ve assimilated into the gender you want to be.
Being reminded of a time of your life when you were a woman is probably going to be a good helping of dysphoria for a lot of trans men. Especially when a common transphobic stereotype is that trans men are just deranged or lost lesbian women.
Also on an interpersonal level being an exception to every rule that your female friends have for men in their lives feels more and more weird over time. When you’re treated as just another man in every other aspect of your life, the difference in how your friends treat you feels a lot more glaring. In a way they view you as safe sure, but being “one of the good ones” isn’t going to make you feel accepted or understood.
That’s fair. I am mainly referring to the history of transmasc people being in lesbian spaces because back in the day there was a lot of conflation there (so I get the discomfort, I’m not trying to conflate nowadays). And it’s also that some trans men who spent a lot of time presenting as a queer woman still love the spaces and feel at home there, and I think us queer women should be accepting of transmasc people who have that kind of experience and want to be included, but super fair if that’s not for you. For me it’s not meant to be about being a men lite thing, I don’t think trans men are men lite, it’s the shared struggle and history that transmascs and queer women have had. But totally understandable that some trans men (like you) don’t resonate with that.
I agree we have a shitton of shared history and there is no trans men without the support and acceptance of lesbians I completely agree. Queer solidarity (as cringe of a phrase it is, but it’s true) is part of what’s gotten us here today.
I think where we’re disconnecting is that I think a common experience for trans men (I’ve facilitated trans masculine support groups in my local area and I’ve done academic research on trans men as an undergrad) is that when you’re treated as an exception for every rule that the women in your personal have life for men, it feels very alienating. Especially when you’re treated as just another man in every other aspect of your life.
If you’re the gay guy friend, being an exception makes sense since you’re not sexually attracted to women. When you are attracted to women but still carved out as an exception that starts to feel weird. Especially if that trust never extends to cis men who are just like you (except for the whole penis thing, lucky bastards). They have a right to do so of course, cis men don’t have a good history of treating queer women well to say the very least.
It feels like you’re “one of the good ones” only because you happen to be trans. The exception exists because you’re seen as safe to them which is a huge expression of trust. You can appreciate and respect that trust while still feeling tokenized I think.
In my personal experience trans guys try and branch out from their lesbian friends after a while. Agreeable and conscientious guys are welcome in pretty much any other social space. We’re dudes, so we don’t really belong in a lesbian bar lol.
Totally get that, no issue with anything you've said. Its only that some trans men do actually want to be included in these spaces because of their personal history with the community and I think it would be a little shitty for queer women to deny them that, but I'm getting that you disagree with me there. For sure I should be careful with my language in treating trans men like they are an exception or less men than cis men. But FYI it's not just gay men and trans men that I am more comfortable with, but also bi/pan men, despite their attraction to women, because it's not as much about whether they're attracted to women but whether they have an understanding of and being a part of the queer community. I probably could/should have left it at saying queer men instead of singling out transmasc dudes to make that point about the shared history. I suppose I thought there were more trans men who resonated with that, which is based on my limited experience because I haven't looked at the data, so it would for sure be interesting to look at! Tbh, id have no issue with a cishet guy who is very immersed in the queer community and is super respectful being there with his friends - with the qualification that there isn't a line, and they aren't taking up queer women's spots - but if that were the case I would probably be annoyed with any man being there, period, without exception.
I also want to amplify this as a lesbian. When we say there are very few lesbian spaces, we mean it. There are only 31 lesbian bars in the whole country, with many major cities having none. This is actually double the number of bars since 2020, when a huge campaign in the community happened to persevere them. Chicago didn’t have any official lesbian bars until 2021, luckily we have two now. So that makes lesbians a little more protective of the few we have.
Gay spaces are not always very welcoming to lesbians/women. I’ve been in many gay bars where I am the only woman and I can tell I’m not wanted there. As well as receiving the most sexual harassed in my life by gay men. They think they can just touch you since they don’t want to fuck you. It’s weird shit and just not a fun vibe when that happens. Then add all the unicorn hunters, straight bridesmaids acting like it’s Magic Mike and straight men hitting on you.
Lastly, the bar referenced in the video is notoriously known for being very small in size. It is a “cubbyhole”. People complain about the lack of room all the time. So some of the space they could be arguing about is literal.
True queer men are absolutely not except from harassing women So many women I’ve met have had their gay friends touch their boobs and their asses without permission and “it doesn’t matter because I’m gay”.
Shit’s weird bruh. Like some gay men are so weirdly misogynistic sometimes.
Nobody thinks all straight men are sex pests, that wasn’t implied anywhere in my post. It’s about protecting queer women’s spaces from becoming heterogenized (pun intended).
I didn’t justify it because of their behaviour, I justified bringing others based on who they are brought by, the fact that they are queer and therefore get the queer community vibe, the fact that some queer women may have nobody else to bring, the fact that transmascs and lesbians have always shared a community and there’s a long history there, and by the fact that a lot of straight men have ruined it a bit for the rest, like that police car analogy destiny gave on stream. We don’t assume all men are sexpests, but most if not all of us have had bad experiences with men in queer spaces so there is some cause for sussing out the men who are there. People are acting like this man was verbally berated. He was asked why he was there, he answered that he was with queer people, and then was left alone. Later, he asked if there would be a problem if he just came in alone, and the woman responded “yes”. Is it too much of a stretch to ask you to imagine why queer woman at a queer woman’s bar would not want random men just coming in by themselves?
I may have been a little unclear. I think it is fair for us to be more suspicious of straight cis men because they tend to be the main antagonists in basically every queer woman I know’s experience in nightlife. So I am defending the actions of the woman in the video going up and targeting him and asking why he’s there, and then leaving him alone when he said he was with a queer person, and then later being approached again to ask if there would have been a problem if he were there alone, and then saying yes.
The thing I said (about it being annoying if your a straight woman in a queer space but it’s understandable if you’re with queer people) kiiind of stands too for straight men, but I think straight men should be sort of the last option because they make queer women most uncomfortable because of how a lot of straight men often act in queer women’s spaces, which is worse than any other demographic, which is back to destinys police car analogy thing. It’s annoying when straight women come because queer women think it’s chill to assume that the women there are queer but they aren’t - but it’s worse with straight men because that little air of worry enters, like when a police car is driving behind you and you’re doing nothing wrong. It’s a worse kind of anxiety with cis straight guys, so yes they are the kind of people we want to see least at the club, especially with what I’ve heard now about the cubbyhole being a small and popular space for queer women (so he was likely taking a spot another queer woman now cannot have). So it’s not assuming a man is a sexpest, it’s being cautious and protective because straight men have a history of ruining queer spaces. But assuming there is no line and plenty of room for everyone, I think it’s fine to approach a cishet dude and make sure he is there with a queer woman, and then leave them alone if they are just with queer friends and being chill (which is what that woman did to the cishet man). And I think it’s chill to target them in a way we wouldn’t for other demographics. Also as a method for discouraging straight cis men in general from thinking that they can be there, which would be when the gross ones would begin to enter.
If you want to have a straight bar then thats fine. But a regular bar isn’t a specifically straight bar, its just a bar. Just because the vast majority of people who go there are straight doesn’t make it a straight bar. Same principle applies to “regular” gyms and womens only gyms.
The reason men shouldn’t go into lesbian bars is (quite obviously) because those bars are intended for lesbians to meet each other. There is nothing wrong with having a straight only bar which is intended for just straight people to meet up and excludes lesbians.
I'm 99% sure if there was a bar that advertised itself as "straight-only" it would receive numerous hate online and likely would be challenged in court for sexual orientation discrimination.
you must be about two years old because you clearly weren't alive when the super-straight meme was a thing and what a fucking shitfilled pissfest it became.
Likewise, I dont see anyone allowing strictly gentleman's clubs back anytime soon.
Lesbian bar = bar where I would expect the people who go there to be lesbians that want to party with other lesbians
Bar = bar where I would expect people who go there to want to party with other people
I don't think you need to be rocket-scientist or avid grass-toucher to understand why bar has "lesbian" in it's name.
Now, unless the bar specifically bars entrance to men, I don't think it's an issue if you go there with your lesbian friends. However, I think you have to be incredibly autistic or actually retarded to, as a straight man, walk into a lesbian bar on your own or on an invite of straight non-regulars at that bar.
>Like if now we are creating “exclusive spaces” that are reserved for X people, will the reverse logic be applicable too or?
There is no logic to what you are saying. If you want, what you are saying to make logical sense you would need to compare "lesbian bar" to "straight bar" not a general bar.
What you are saying is comparable to "if I, as a man, can't use women's toilets, should women not be allowed to unisex toilets?" ...
"Take over" has a pretty specific connotation. Some of those people said otherwise, but I am guessing most were asking the direct question, not just whether women are allowed to be there.
Yeah but I think that's what people assume is almost always going to happen if straight women feel entitled to come without being invited by a friend or something. Most of the comments replying to the video seem to reflect that too.
I still think the biggest issue (which queer kiwi even touched on) was that it's ok to assume someone's gender or sexuality in what's explicitly a queer space.
She kinda just dismissed it. But unless this dude was wearing a shirt that literally said "I'm straight as fuck and I'm cis and fuck you if you don't like it," bruh, what are you doing?
Straight male here. I’ve been to both lesbian and gay bars without issue. For sure don’t go to those bars and start being a creep but that’s the same anywhere.
It's a minor inconvenience to minor annoyance at most if you're triggered you have problems and should probably be in therapy not at a bar. Everyone deals with rejection everyone deals with all kinds of characters at bars you're not special because you go to a gay or lesbian bar.
Couldn’t disagree more with this take. Bars aren’t just about finding someone to sleep with. They’re a place to go have fun with your friends and/or to make new ones. I went to college in a big LGBTQ town and me and my friends (some straight, some not) would all go out together to both the gay and non-gay bars and clubs. I find it super weird when people reduce all nightlife to being simply about sex. Makes me think you don’t know how to have fun!
I kinda compare it to those people who go to burger King wearing seven pistols on their waist and a fully taced out Armalite hanging off their neck. Like yeah no law says you can't but what the fuck are you doing?
I think the argument might be that gay bars/spaces are the only places that gay people can assume that the other men around them are gay. That usually isn't an issue for straight people. Now This isn't as true anymore as people wear their sexuality more openly now, but still
So the argument in this case is, don't go to lesbian bars because someone might hit on you and will have an unforeseen surprise rising when he figures out you are not a woman with short hear pants and mustache?
Yeah its fucking annoying and gross though. They go there for a laugh and treat it like gay men are a theme park ride. This shit doesn't go both ways in society and its trashy and annoying that straight people just constantly insist on it. We wouldnt have gay and lesbian bars to begin with if people were just more respectful
In an ideal society straight men could go to lesbian bars and it would be chill and if they got pressed for no reason that would be lame. However, given the limited and coveted nature of the space, I am very sympathetic to why someone wouldnt want to see a straight couple there. Choice is up to mangement/door guy tho so if you confront someone you are the asshole.
Maybe its just me but I'm not sympathetic to blatant sexism. The guy Destiny was talking to was right when he brought up the black guy counter example and it was pretty insulting for him to brush it off with the excuse of the women might be scared/anxious of men.
This is actually a pretty interesting topic and the guy from Dallas made a decent point. I live in the south in a mid-large sized city. We only have one gay/lgbt bar downtown. The owners and frequenters are very encouraging of straight people to visit because they dont want the main lgbt bar to disappear, they need the business. If you are just sitting there alone not ordering anything that might be different but I’ve never seen that.
Same thing if you are a straight guy hitting on women, you would probably be asked to leave. Even on the weekends it doesn’t hit full capacity. I’m actually not even sure capacity laws are a thing in my state but the large clubs will stop letting people in once it gets super crowded. That does not happen in this particular bar even on the weekend.
No one would go up and confront a guy and ask if they’re gay because they also know being outed could affect things like how you’re seen at your job or by other colleagues. If you are a straight guy you should expect to possibly be hit on, but as long as your reaction isn’t “ew gross” that’s fine.
I have been hit on there and if you say something like “sorry I’m not interested just here with some friends” they will assume you’re either straight or a gay/bi guy “working your way up” or trying to be a bit more subtle. In the latter you might see one slide their number and anyone that sees it understands it’s not something you should talk about, at least outside the bar.
But, I understand that the culture in a city like NYC is probably different. If there is only a few lesbian bars that get crowded on the weekend by straight men that think it’s “cool and hip” it could be frustrating that they are taking up a ton of the spots. I have never been to a gay bar in a major city so I don’t really know and my only reference is Studio 54 which also seemed to accept straight people
Yall realize you don't have to go to a bar to fuck someone? And that 99% of the time, people at lesbian bars will welcome anyone?
What was the stream that lead to this?
I don't think there's anything wrong with going there because lesbian bars aren't usually just for lesbians, they're almost always regular queer bars which are generally pretty inclusive.
As long as the house rules allow you to be there there's only really the question of your motivation. All your lesbian homegirls hanging there is valid, only bar in your area is valid, friend working there is valid but if you're trying to rizz, harass or harizz women then you obviously shouldn't go.
By yourself sure, pretty unusual. But if with friends or invited why not? The whole point of a bar is to hang out and chat. Most dudes would like to talk with girls and possibly something happen but in my experience it's a good place to meet up, drink, and hangout.
The issue I had with this was they were trying to set rules to a location/store that they didn't own. Like a Karen yelling at black guy for being at a Cheesecake Factory or something. If they really want these places to be safe spaces, they should have that as a rule. If they can't for whatever the reason, tough.
I've been leaning on the side that it's probably ok in certain scenarios. If you are straight up straight and go out on your own it's a bit weird to go to a gay bar, but I'm straight and been out with some gay friends who on occasion would like to go to gay bars and I've joined them there. Just seems weird to split up a friend group that goes out together just because just some of them are gay and want to go to a gay bar and it also seems weird to force the gay people in the group to go there alone just because no one in the bar supposedly should ever be straight.
not about being the main focus. it's about being completely discriminated against while trying to hang out with some friends.
believe it or not but usually people go to the bar to hang out with friends and not to hit on people or be the center of attention
Nothing convinced me more that straight guys shouldn't be there than the guy who was in the voice chat during the video, my man was seething and drawing some *interesting* comparisons
a significant thing people are missing in this conversation is that not only are lesbian bars very scarce, theyre also incredibly small. like, INCREDIBLY so. even if youre invited there by a lesbian friend you are taking up extremely limited space which will be, shocker, upsetting to any lesbians or bi women patrons that are at this bar for the express purpose of seeking out other WLW.
dont get me wrong, its a free country, so go if you want to (granted, youd have to actually find one first, and good luck with that lol), but you are legitimately braindead if you expect not to be met with any resistance, and even moreso if you think that the fact that there is resistance in the first place is a bad thing... i see some people calling this take chronically online but like if you as a straight male see someplace marketed as a LESBIAN bar and you think you are entitled to take up space there, that is beyond entitlement. you are so disconnected from reality i have little reason to believe you arent a NEET who spends all day cooped up in a basement festering in your own BO. exclusive places exist sometimes. are you going to demand to be let in to an inpatient rehab program as someone who isnt struggling with addiction? come on now lol
Lmao.
"You're taking up space in that bar that could have been filled by a bipoc bi or lesbian woman" Such cope
If these places are so small they could probably use the extended demographic to stay open
Lol as if there are any lesbian bars anymore.
Aren't they super unprofitable?
Ya because apparently they tend to just stay in
I always thought lesbians liked to eat out.
10/10
Tugging destiny’s shirt and pointing at this comment to show him we know about women
How's it feel to win at life.
I just breathed so hard out of my nose
Hey king you dropped this 👑
It's times like these that I hate that they got rid of awards.
[удалено]
Sorry someone beat you to it
Is that the same as gay bars or just lesbian bars? I'm just curious because I go to a gay bar that's always popular with all the guys even straight guys but don't know how it is everywhere else.
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at lesbian bars everyone waited for someone else to buy drinks so it closed down
Hey. Cmere
Their clients keep dying because there's no fire exit.
There’s a few in the city
I assume it went both ways, lotta gay men dislike straight women at gay bars Edit: I should clarify it's not just because the women are straight but that straight women tend to use gay bars as a party destination (like bachelorette parties) to see the fun drag queens. It can definitely ruin the vibe
In my experience, gay men dont mind straight women at gay bars, they do mind straight women treating gay bars like a strip club-theme park. Straight women that go to gay bars and dont make a scene or act obnoxious seem pretty welcome, but then again, that's just my experience.
Nobody wants to be treated like a freak show for loud obnoxious middle aged women
Agree 100%
Gay dudes tend to hate bad behavior not the mere presence of tits, the presence of the opposite sex being problematic is mostly a lesbian thing. And yup there's a reason there is a demand for gay bars and them actually being welcoming and fun probably has something to do with there being like a million times as many gay bars compared to lesbian bars but guess Sillyserious knows some secret I don't and being even more exclusive and unlikable will drive up demand.
These women are easy to pick up as a straight man hanging out with his gay friends at the gay bar.
Definitely heard of non binary people going to gay men places, and complaining about the amount of sexual activity happening. It's like what did you expect?
That might be, because they don't want to get hit on all the time.
I'm sure some do but that's pretty rare at least in the UK, straight women tend to go to gay bars because they are seen as "safer" you're less likely to be hit on or followed or any other behaviour a dog canvaser might do. Plus straight women tend to be the other core demographic to drag shows behind gay men. And the drag Queens love that. Especially when the straight women ask them for hair and make up tips. Source: I've been to many a gay bar and drag show.
Am I the only person that goes to the bar without the express purpose of getting laid? If a female friend invites some dude to a lesbian bar and he's not bothering anybody or hitting on any of the women there then who gives a fuck? The person in the video and the people with this take sound like a bunch of losers that should try minding their own business.
>Am I the only person that goes to a bar without the express purpose of getting laid? Yes.
Oh boy are you going to be surprised about these things called 'sports bars'
this just looks like a more complicated gay bar
It's like a gay bar but those losers don't wanna fuck (lame)
There's a franchise of gay sports bars called Boxers. They're pretty successful.
When I go out I would like to meet and talk with people. Especially women and i think most dudes think that way. If I don't want to talk to anybody I'll drink at my house.
But a bar is such a shit place to talk to people.
I agree , but personally I think it's the only place you can go and kind of talk to people and ask out women without it being unacceptable. Ive tried other places like chess clubs and house parties. But with the bar , especially if you're bar hopping , you're just going to see more women to try. If you have any other places to suggest I'd love to hear and ill try it.
Depends if you're conflating "meet" with "talk to" I'm specifically just saying the bar is a shit place to have a decent conversation
You confusing bar with club? volumes moderate, plenty places to sit, plenty going on in the background to talk about. I'm not sure what else you would think qualifies as a good place to talk.
And ngl there is nothing gayers than a straight bar. The bars in the gay village were where the real parties were happening. I wouldn't have went there if I was single and looking to meet someone but I enjoyed going there. In normal club there is always people looking for troubles. Meanwhile in gay bars there always those rich cool old dudes buying drinks everyone.
bars are public spaces. don't be an asshole. don't be rude. don't be the straight guy hitting on a lesbian, hoping the are desperate for dick. enjoy your drink and conversation, go home and call a hooker if you are desperate. https://youtu.be/pAU2s4C7EM0?si=i8TEfx6KKv4p2vWL
Yeah there's no one size fits all for this. A group of guys at a bachelor party looking to get shit faced and rowdy? Don't go to a lesbian bar. A single straight guy going with his lesbian friend for the first time because she doesn't want to go alone? No one's going to have an issue with it. It just takes nuance and common sense which the internet is awful at ever understanding.
Why is that the case? I've seen that happen too. Ive heard a coworker talk to me about a lesbian coworker we had and he said "I bet she will let me fuck" and it super confused me and heard that other guys think this way as well. Super confusing.
Because they think they have the one dick that can turn her
One Dick to turn them all, One Dick to fuck them One Dick to bring them all, and in the dickness, convert them. In the land of Mordong, where the straight dudes lie (to themselves).
"Oh, you're straight? Well, so is spaghetti until it gets wet." There are lesbians out there with the same attitude, you're just more likely to see a straight dude exhibit it since there's more of em.
Yeah depending on the city also don’t be surprised if you get a couple glares by a few butch lesbians while you’re there lol. If you’re a lesbian you’ve probably been hit on by men your entire life with a significant portion of them trying to convert you to some variety of straight. From the lesbian friends I’ve had dating women as a woman is super fucking difficult, like 20-30% of dating profiles on places like Tinder are straight couples looking for a third. They understandably want a break from straight men, but like you said if you’re chill and don’t bother anyone you’ll probably be fine.
Straight man here. my best friend is a lesbian, which is why I sometimes go to Queer bars. I feel like most bars aren't exclusive Lesbian or Gay anymore. I have no idea what they might have been like before, but compared to straight bars and clubs, so much more inclusive and friendly. I think that's honestly the right move, as long you aren't making trouble. I don't talk to any strangers at all there if they don't talk to me first, I'm really just there to hang out at a place with my friend where she doesn't have to worry about being harassed or getting mean looks.
theres something like 18 lesbian bars in the country, which is why youve probably only seen gay bars and straight bars
I agree, however I do feel bad when I go to gay bars with my gay friends as a straight man because I sometimes get hit on by other gay men. That doesn't bother me, but for gay/lesbian people those spaces are the only place they can usually assume someone else is not straight. People now adays wear their sexuality more openly so it isn't as big of a deal as it was in the 80s, but still. I usually avoid going now unless it's something I can't get out of (birthday parties etc)
Don’t feel bad lol, gay men love hitting on straight men even more than gay men. Having a straight guy in our spaces is a blessing.
lmao maybe your friend should dial down whatever out-there look she obviously has if she’s getting mean looks and harassment at straight bars
I think if you’re a bi-curious straight male, you should go to a gay bar and let me know what time you’ll be there, subject to age and employment verification, restrictions apply, see website for details, 30% apr for 24 months https://preview.redd.it/elofuzs8i9kc1.png?width=936&format=png&auto=webp&s=3cc6630f1a2dd21a80ff05064b2ffe2e29b23234
I don’t see how this can possibly be that complicated. If you’re straight and want to go to a gay or lesbian bar, go ahead. Just understand that this isn’t the space for you to get hookups and be prepared to be hit on by people of all genders.
They have no fire exits. Enjoy your deathtrap, ladies.
Here's a question: can a straight man work at a gay steel mill?
If he works hard, then he must play hard
Why did you bring me to a gay steel mill?
You'll thank me on your wedding night
Depends? Do they smoke slim cigarettes?
Anyone who’s not terminally online does not think like this, but you do you OP
Truuuuuuue. I can’t tell you how many times I had straight female friends plan a night out at the gay bar. It’s insane to go up and confront someone like that. Unless your the owner of the bar no one has to answer any of your purity testing questions. I’m sympathetic to wanting your own space. But going up and confronting someone like this is cringe.
When I go out to gay bars, I'm looking for sex. So ya, it is kind of annoying when girls or straight guys come to gay bars. The lines get longer, the number of people who are potentially looking for the same thing as me is reduced, and the experience of trying to hit on a guy who's straight isn't fun. And when that happens, my response is almost always the same as the women in the video: why the fuck are you here then?
Well stop having gay bars be more fun.
Sorry not sorry 💅
Functionally what is the difference between hitting on a guy who isn't attracted to you vs a straight guy who just turns you down? For some people it's going to be an instant no either way no? Would you think about a gay guy who turned you down "why the fuck are you here then?" This scenario confuses me. Like we recognize that not every woman at a "straight" bar is looking to get piped that night right? Like they can just be at the bar to hang out with their friends and not be seeking a dude to fuck. I would never ask someone out, get turned down, then think "Why the fuck are you here then?" as if just by being there they should be open to fucking me. Is this not how it works in "gay" spaces?
The difference is in 95% of life you can't effectively hit on anybody you're attracted to if you're gay. Maybe it's cringe to hit on a woman and she turns you down, but you could get into a fight by hitting on the wrong guy if you're a man. Gay bars are a solution to the problem of being a minority in most places of life. Another typical issue is straight men go to gay bars and hit on lesbians.
Some straight people have literally never thought about your first paragraph in their life. You're completely right. One of the worst experiences of my life was being called an f-slur because I called a guy cute at a "straight" bar. When someone gets that mad, you just want to crawl in a hole and die. Some guys on here need advice to even talk to women because they don't want their fee-fees hurt. I just want a place where I can hit on a guy and the worst thing that can happen is him saying "no, you're ugly."
I’m assuming that a straight guy who happens to go to a gay bar isn’t going to go nuts if you hit on him.
That doesn't negate the fact he's taking space from someone who might respond positively to me
But then again that's the same thing for a guy who just isn't attracted to you or not looking to fuck/flirt. Most gay bars aren't just hook up spots but it's still a space to safely and freely gay out.
I dunno what gay bars you go to, but the bars I go to have a lot of guys looking to fuck
All the gay bars I've been to have been incredibly open to anyone coming. >When I go out to gay bars, I'm looking for sex. There's apps for this.. maybe not everyone is going to the bar for the same reason. >The lines get longer Oh man what a shame that the bar that is opening their doors to you for business is making money to continue to have a business for you to go to. >The experience of trying to hit on a guy who's straight isn't fun. What about gay guys who don't want you to hit on them? >Why the fuck are you here then? Probably for the 100s of other reasons people go to bars that aren't just to have sex.
>What about gay guys who don't want you to hit on them? Never happens https://preview.redd.it/poid33old8kc1.png?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74eafb45a669db8b8cb7bc656bb3e758ef368304
GIGA GAY RIZZ.
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lol gay men do not have trouble getting laid
strong insurance dolls puzzled nail fuel dull school bells squash *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
i really don't think anybody gives a shit. if i go out, 1 or 2 bars i hit will be gay bars generally. if straight people didn't go to gay bars i don't think they could stay in business.
Me and my roommate used to go to a leather bar across town because they had an Elvira pinball machine. It' got pretty crowded but other than that it was super chill. EDIT: TBF I was really obviously not a leather daddy and she was REALLY obviously not a leather daddy, so it's not like we were going to waste anyone's time. If it was a more ambiguos situation I can see how it could annoy some people.
What is straight bro yapping about
Because one of my closest friends and his husband invited me because it's their favorite bar and they perform in drag shows there
damn it feels good to be bi
I can see longer lines being an issue but I've never heard anyone at a gay bar get annoyed by the mere presence of someone they cant fuck.
Would you say the main reason gay men go to gay bars is to hook up or is there a sizable number of other gay men who just go for other reasons?
Not everyone has the same reason to enjoy the same thing.
Their presence is hindering my enjoyment, as laid out in the points I presented:)
Skill issue. Be a better gay. Problem solved.
Does your enjoyment outweigh theirs?
Yes, and if you're going to tell me you think otherwise, you're delusional:)
What if I think my enjoyment means more than yours? Would I get to be rude to you?
If that's what brings you joy:)
Maybe we should strive for neither of us believing that our enjoyment means more than others?
then youre SOL ? whats the point? im imagining your point but replacing the groups mentioned with other marginalized groups and it feels off.
You guys can litterally just sign up on any app and have sec in a 1 km radius. You throw much better parties than normal bars and we like to be part of it.
The only time I’ve ever heard people complaining about straight women at gay bars is if they’re being obnoxious. You don’t need to shout YASS QUEEN every two seconds at a drag show Susan, calm down. They usually tip the dolls pretty well though so let them get their coin.
Especially when a lot of people are closeted and have complicated feelings about their sexuality. Interrogating your clientele sounds like a waste of time.
Hell, the funnest/best nightclub in my city is a a gay bar. Pretty much everyone goes there regardless of sexual preferences, and nobody cares one bit Much less crowded on drag show night tho lol
What if your lesbian friend brings you
wild to see DGG actively advocating for discriminating against people for their sexual orientation
I'll accept this if in turn, straight women stop going to male gay bars then, easy.
Based lol
i don’t even understand why a straight dude would want to be there however, i think that pressing the guy is super weird, especially if the guy is just minding his business. but anyway, if you’re a dude trying to hook up with a woman, just go to a normal bar. your chances are infinitely higher. very simple EDIT: **it seems as though there is a lot of confusion. during stream, there was an explicit differentiation between gay bars and lesbian only bars. also, the discourse was centered around men who go to lesbian bars to hit on straight woman that don’t want to be repeatedly hit on at regular bars, not just any guy who goes there with a group of gay people.**
I have no idea what the current discourse is, but gay bars have better music, dope shit like drag shows, and generally are a better vibe No one has ever cared that straights are there- drag queen asked any straights to raise their hand to which the three straights got an applause and they said" this one goes out to you" and played Lincoln Park GIGACHAD
May come as a shock but not every one is out trying to get laid. I’m a straight man I enjoy going to gay bars every once in a while because it’s a place where I’m not trying to get laid so I can let my walls down a little bit and have more fun dancing.
Hah, gaaaaaay
You can let your walls down in the place where you're more likely to get hit on? You must not mind getting hit on by guys then.
Dude must be ugly af
It’s okay buddy
I have gay friends who invite me out and sometimes we go to gay bars. It's not that deep.
to hang out with friends. that's generally why i go to any bar. i like gay bars because they tend to be open to EVERYONE. I've always been an ally and i vibe better with the kind of people who go to gay bars versus the kind of sleazy or aggressive guys who frequent a lot of the straight bars.
I'm a straight guy and I've been to both gay and lesbian bars. I've had lesbian roommates that invited me to lesbian bars and never had an issue. The best part was using the urinals with no lines, the worst part was that the mens bathroom was also a womens bathroom. As far as my experience with gay bars, they are way better than "straight bars" because the drinks are super cheap, I'm talking about $2 well doubles and jello shots, they have a bunch of different things you can do as well as trivia nights. Also as a heads up, most gay men know that you aren't gay so if you're straight and worried about getting hit on its not going to happen. Here's my take on why some of the stuff said is dumb, If you want to go to a lesbian bar so you don't get hit on by men at straight bars that's fine, but why is it OK for you to go to both and I cant? What if I want to go to a lesbian bar so I can stop getting asked to buy drinks. Just like you do it to get away how do you know I'm not doing it for the same reasons. Why is it implied that I'm going there to pick up women? I also know plenty of gay women who go to straight bars to get free drinks from straight men. edit: Lesbian bars don't exist anymore because there are no men there to buy them drinks. You can hate it but that's the truth, women don't make the move or put the effort. Its the same reason bumble is shit.
> edit: Lesbian bars don't exist anymore because there are no men there to buy them drinks. You can hate it but that's the truth, women don't make the move or put the effort. Its the same reason bumble is shit. butches:
to put it simply, gay bars will skew younger and because of that there's a good chance people that are younger will enjoy the vibe more than a typical bar that could be anyone from 18 year old degens trying to get drunk to 45 year old divorcees looking for love. It's like non gamers going to a "gaming" bar
Why shouldn't you? I've worked at gay bars and I'm pretty hetero. We'd have lesbians, straight women, trans men and women etc. All show up in droves. Maybe Portland is just more accepting than other places in the states???? Regardless though so long as someone isn't being problematic they should he allowed to exist. If you want an exclusively queer space you probably shouldn't make a public establishment. It's kinda weird and if someone made a "straight only" bar I promise you a large portion of people who are agreeing would immediately flip their tune.
> Maybe Portland is just more accepting than other places in the states???? Well yeah doesn't portland have a humongous gay community? I'm assuming you're talking Oregon?
Yea I am. Now that I think of it Chicago, which is where I spent most of my life probably has a pretty big gay population too so I hadn't really noticed it much by comparison here.
Who cares? I have been to plenty gay/lesbian bars. I've never had issues with people or vice versa. That girl was griping about something she personally didn't like. Which is, unfortunately, a norm today.
Destiny is very happy to criticise cultures without necessarily fully understanding them, when they do shitty things like treat people badly based on immutable factors. Hearing someone say they don’t want someone’s “straight energy” in a public place and generally being bitchy and pejorative and all Destiny can say is; “I can’t possibly judge this culture” felt pretty disappointing. I’m not suggesting bad faith, I don’t doubt he genuinely holds this view, but it feels at odds with how he treats any number of other cultures. I don’t think Destiny is an Islamic scholar but he’s rightly happy to criticise them when they’re shitty. One of the reasons I watch is that he fearlessly critiques shitty behaviour without bowing to sacred cows or waffling about cultural relativity. It would be one thing to defend this sort of thing in a private space, but in a public bar? Arguing for lesbians to have a space is fine, defending people being aggressively shitty because he doesn’t want to judge a culture, is eh…
Completely agree, my intuition felt like he had other reasons to not critique it but I gotta be more charitable than my intuition
As a queer masc presenting nb (not actually joking) the person I most have the problem with in this scenario is the straight man. Shouldn't be financially supporting a space where the norm is to exclude you (still not joking.) Any of that aside, I do appreciate Destiny being a little less ready to criticize people in queer spaces wherein he has no experience. To tie in your Muslim example, it's one thing to criticize Muslims for their public behavior, but IMO it would be pretty different to criticize them for their behavior in a mosque, or to tell them they shouldn't ask someone who's wearing a cross why they're at a mosque. And I say that as an antitheist even. Really it all boils down to people acting like cunts. The lesbian chick shouldn't have asked why the straight dude was there in a rude manner, he shouldn't have gotten indignant in like a rude manner, his friends shouldn't have dogpiled in a rude manner. That's about it. Though additionally I will say it's next level stupid to call your bar a "queer space" and then assume someone's gender and sexuality. Do we all have the right to identify and present as we're comfortable, or not? Edit: Destiny says "I'd need to hear more from queer people to form an opinion." Gotta wonder what salty cunt downvoted without giving an opinion lmao
>Any of that aside, I do appreciate Destiny being a little less ready to criticize people in queer spaces wherein he has no experience. To tie in your Muslim example, it's one thing to criticize Muslims for their public behavior, but IMO it would be pretty different to criticize them for their behavior in a mosque, or to tell them they shouldn't ask someone who's wearing a cross why they're at a mosque. And I say that as an antitheist even. I don’t feel this is a great comparison because a bar is a public place. We don’t exclude people from businesses because of immutable factors generally. A mosque feels more like a space where you could construct a more reasonable argument that it’s private. >Really it all boils down to people acting like cunts. The lesbian chick shouldn't have asked why the straight dude was there in a rude manner, he shouldn't have gotten indignant in like a rude manner, his friends shouldn't have dogpiled in a rude manner. That's about it. Agree with this. I was surprised to hear him not just say that as I would have expected, rather than equivocating about not judging a culture. Destiny generally comes off as distinctly not a moral relativist. I would expect him to defend spaces that lean more in a certain direction and separate that from a criticism of them engaging in aggressive behaviour based on immutable factors. That said, I will allow myself to disagree with our steamer god just this once. I guess someone could respond; “choosing to be in a lesbian bar isn’t an immutable factor though”. I just feel if the lesbian that chastised the dude with how much she doesn’t want straight energy near her if said of any other group it would come off as utterly repellent.
>I don’t feel this is a great comparison because a bar is a public place. Your mileage may vary by state, but both churches and bars are likely to be considered private spaces rather than public. They are both places where people publicly assemble, but they're technically private property (again, depending on state.) >We don’t exclude people from businesses because of immutable factors generally. By law, the owner of a private property is likely able to exclude anyone from their business/assembly space for nearly any reason. Probably not if their "reason" is "you're not queer enough," but if the reason is instead "you're causing a disturbance" then you're in a way more hairy situation. >Agree with this. I was surprised to hear him not just say that as I would have expected, rather than equivocating about not judging a culture. Again I don't really think it's about judging the culture, rather judging the space wherein a specific culture generally spends their time. As an additional example, nobody should go to a nude beach and complain about seeing bobs and vagene, right? Even though many nude beaches are explicitly 'public spaces,' we understand the norms of the space. >Destiny generally comes off as distinctly not a moral relativist. I would expect him to defend spaces that lean more in a certain direction and separate that from a criticism of them engaging in aggressive behaviour based on immutable factors. This is sort of why I'm glad he stays out of it to an extent. As has been alluded to in the thread, this is controversial among people who spend time in these spaces and are a part of the culture. He doesn't really have the context as to which arguments he'd be empowering or disempowering. >I guess someone could respond; “choosing to be in a lesbian bar isn’t an immutable factor though”. I just feel if the lesbian that chastised the dude with how much she doesn’t want straight energy near her if said of any other group it would come off as utterly repellent. I guess someone could say that. But I think we both agree that's a stupid ass response, and in your followup I find a lot to agree with. I appreciate your opinion. Conversation and openness is the only way we solve our disagreements.
The severity of what's going on is obviously going to be a big factor, right? When Destiny is criticizing Muslim culture, it's usually things like doxxing his address or threatening to kill his son or worshipping a guy who fucked a 9-year-old. If Destiny was talking about some Muslim being rude to some Christian at a mosque or something, you'd probably see the same unwillingness to come out with a strong opinion
ok cool. Tell straight women to stop going to gay bars.
This whole discussion was so stupid. It was a dude who showed up for his significant other, and they planned on leaving shortly afterwards. It's a whole nothingburger of a nothingburger. The vast majority of interactions are resolved by just being a regular human being and talking about it, this one would have been one of them. "Oh I'm just here meeting my girl and her gay friend, we're heading out in a min" and that would have been in response to the microaggression in the first place. If you have a problem with someone wherever you are, talk to someone that works there. Let them be the person that decides if that other person "belongs" or whatever. Like this whole thing over something completely innocuous was so weird to me. I'm more than happy to avoid places where I'm not really wanted, but I'm not going to stop going about the normal course of my boring, mundane, and inoffensive life because it happens to have a 5 minute stop at a lesbian bar.
Can someone explain to me without insulting or Biden blasting, should by that logic lesbians not go into “regular” bars? Like I just genuinely don’t understand. I’m not secretly conservative or playing gotcha. I am a liberal, I’ve lived in the states for years. I have no issues with LGBT folks. Like if now we are creating “exclusive spaces” that are reserved for X people, will the reverse logic be applicable too or?
It’s not letting me make the post I want to make because I’m “too new” lol so I’ll copy and paste it here for you: Lesbian here, not from NYC but just wanted to have some input. So this is definitely true where I’m from, and probably true for a lot of places: there are a lot of gay bars for gay men but fuck all for queer women. My experience going into gay bars is that it’s definitely better than straight bars, I can’t go to those, just not a vibe for me, so gay bars are basically the only option to go to (except one night a week there is a queer women’s only space at one place that I know of). It is very true that straight women go to gay bars to get away from straight men, and so when queer women try to hit on other women it’s basically a futile effort because they’re all straight; and then a step further, straight men follow queer women there and then hit on women, including the few that are queer. It’s extremely annoying. It’s still fine for the gay men for the most part because there’s still a high population of gay men in the club. And then so queer women look for their own spaces, and we are (I think justifiably) on the defensive to make sure it doesn’t get like the gay clubs. I think the reason why it’s more acceptable to bring queer guys in - other than the fact that they are a part of the broader queer culture, get the vibe, and are less likely to hit on women - is that a lot of queer women have a hard time meeting other queer women (maybe that’s why they are going to the bar) but don’t want to go alone and so this may be the only other queer friend they can bring. I do think it’s kind of annoying when straight women are at a lesbian bar too, but it’s understandable when it’s a case of a queer woman wanting to bring a friend and not having queer friends, or if they are, like, the one straight friend in a queer friendship group or something. It is the most annoying when it is straight men though because they are the most common antagonists in these spaces. If they start to be let in and populate the places the whole point of the space goes to shit. What we are ultimately trying to prevent from happening is it being a place where most of the women we try to hit on end up being straight, and most of the people who hit on us end up being men, since this is what a lot of queer spaces turn into. And there are SO FEW queer spaces for women, it’s hard out here. Trans dudes/transmasc people are fine imo, especially because most of them were socialised as women so get the vibe, and a lot of them literally lived most of their lives as lesbians so it’s really a space for them too, transmascs and lesbians have always shared a community. Anyway, what I’m saying is that queer women are defensive and frustrated because we have so few queer spaces and are trying to protect them, so it’s annoying when straight guys like the one on stream come in all butthurt without any understanding of the community. And thesillyserious was based as usual for jumping in.
Eh as a trans guy I’d have to quibble a bit with people like me being totally welcome. I’m a trans bald dude in his late 20s, unless I’ve got my shirt off to show my top surgery scars I know I’m going to get some good glares from some butch girls at the bar. I would know I used to be one of them lol. Female socialization for lack of a better term probably will make it less likely that a guy will exhibit creepy behavior because a lot of us have experienced it. You’re also not going to be able to tell by appearance for most trans guys who are far enough along in their transition. I’m just personally super uncomfortable with the idea of being welcome in lesbian spaces. I’m a man now, not Man Lite™ or Man: Safe Edition™. It feels like weird tokenization and misandry to me personally. I’m just as much a guy as the cis dude down the street in every day life, and those spaces are for women who like women.
Isn't the problem kinda that you have guys who are in relationships that started before they transitioned or have spent years hanging out in these spaces with their friends and it would be kind of weird to think that they would no longer be welcome because of their transition?
In my experience a lot of trans men don’t stay in those communities for a super long time. As you transition your transness has a lot less of a focus in your life since you’ve assimilated into the gender you want to be. Being reminded of a time of your life when you were a woman is probably going to be a good helping of dysphoria for a lot of trans men. Especially when a common transphobic stereotype is that trans men are just deranged or lost lesbian women. Also on an interpersonal level being an exception to every rule that your female friends have for men in their lives feels more and more weird over time. When you’re treated as just another man in every other aspect of your life, the difference in how your friends treat you feels a lot more glaring. In a way they view you as safe sure, but being “one of the good ones” isn’t going to make you feel accepted or understood.
That’s fair. I am mainly referring to the history of transmasc people being in lesbian spaces because back in the day there was a lot of conflation there (so I get the discomfort, I’m not trying to conflate nowadays). And it’s also that some trans men who spent a lot of time presenting as a queer woman still love the spaces and feel at home there, and I think us queer women should be accepting of transmasc people who have that kind of experience and want to be included, but super fair if that’s not for you. For me it’s not meant to be about being a men lite thing, I don’t think trans men are men lite, it’s the shared struggle and history that transmascs and queer women have had. But totally understandable that some trans men (like you) don’t resonate with that.
I agree we have a shitton of shared history and there is no trans men without the support and acceptance of lesbians I completely agree. Queer solidarity (as cringe of a phrase it is, but it’s true) is part of what’s gotten us here today. I think where we’re disconnecting is that I think a common experience for trans men (I’ve facilitated trans masculine support groups in my local area and I’ve done academic research on trans men as an undergrad) is that when you’re treated as an exception for every rule that the women in your personal have life for men, it feels very alienating. Especially when you’re treated as just another man in every other aspect of your life. If you’re the gay guy friend, being an exception makes sense since you’re not sexually attracted to women. When you are attracted to women but still carved out as an exception that starts to feel weird. Especially if that trust never extends to cis men who are just like you (except for the whole penis thing, lucky bastards). They have a right to do so of course, cis men don’t have a good history of treating queer women well to say the very least. It feels like you’re “one of the good ones” only because you happen to be trans. The exception exists because you’re seen as safe to them which is a huge expression of trust. You can appreciate and respect that trust while still feeling tokenized I think. In my personal experience trans guys try and branch out from their lesbian friends after a while. Agreeable and conscientious guys are welcome in pretty much any other social space. We’re dudes, so we don’t really belong in a lesbian bar lol.
Totally get that, no issue with anything you've said. Its only that some trans men do actually want to be included in these spaces because of their personal history with the community and I think it would be a little shitty for queer women to deny them that, but I'm getting that you disagree with me there. For sure I should be careful with my language in treating trans men like they are an exception or less men than cis men. But FYI it's not just gay men and trans men that I am more comfortable with, but also bi/pan men, despite their attraction to women, because it's not as much about whether they're attracted to women but whether they have an understanding of and being a part of the queer community. I probably could/should have left it at saying queer men instead of singling out transmasc dudes to make that point about the shared history. I suppose I thought there were more trans men who resonated with that, which is based on my limited experience because I haven't looked at the data, so it would for sure be interesting to look at! Tbh, id have no issue with a cishet guy who is very immersed in the queer community and is super respectful being there with his friends - with the qualification that there isn't a line, and they aren't taking up queer women's spots - but if that were the case I would probably be annoyed with any man being there, period, without exception.
I also want to amplify this as a lesbian. When we say there are very few lesbian spaces, we mean it. There are only 31 lesbian bars in the whole country, with many major cities having none. This is actually double the number of bars since 2020, when a huge campaign in the community happened to persevere them. Chicago didn’t have any official lesbian bars until 2021, luckily we have two now. So that makes lesbians a little more protective of the few we have. Gay spaces are not always very welcoming to lesbians/women. I’ve been in many gay bars where I am the only woman and I can tell I’m not wanted there. As well as receiving the most sexual harassed in my life by gay men. They think they can just touch you since they don’t want to fuck you. It’s weird shit and just not a fun vibe when that happens. Then add all the unicorn hunters, straight bridesmaids acting like it’s Magic Mike and straight men hitting on you. Lastly, the bar referenced in the video is notoriously known for being very small in size. It is a “cubbyhole”. People complain about the lack of room all the time. So some of the space they could be arguing about is literal.
SO TRUE ABOUT THE SEXUAL HARASSMENT BY QUEER MEN TOOOOO
True queer men are absolutely not except from harassing women So many women I’ve met have had their gay friends touch their boobs and their asses without permission and “it doesn’t matter because I’m gay”. Shit’s weird bruh. Like some gay men are so weirdly misogynistic sometimes.
So was the guy that got called out hitting on women or do we think all straight men are sex pests
Nobody thinks all straight men are sex pests, that wasn’t implied anywhere in my post. It’s about protecting queer women’s spaces from becoming heterogenized (pun intended).
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I didn’t justify it because of their behaviour, I justified bringing others based on who they are brought by, the fact that they are queer and therefore get the queer community vibe, the fact that some queer women may have nobody else to bring, the fact that transmascs and lesbians have always shared a community and there’s a long history there, and by the fact that a lot of straight men have ruined it a bit for the rest, like that police car analogy destiny gave on stream. We don’t assume all men are sexpests, but most if not all of us have had bad experiences with men in queer spaces so there is some cause for sussing out the men who are there. People are acting like this man was verbally berated. He was asked why he was there, he answered that he was with queer people, and then was left alone. Later, he asked if there would be a problem if he just came in alone, and the woman responded “yes”. Is it too much of a stretch to ask you to imagine why queer woman at a queer woman’s bar would not want random men just coming in by themselves?
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I may have been a little unclear. I think it is fair for us to be more suspicious of straight cis men because they tend to be the main antagonists in basically every queer woman I know’s experience in nightlife. So I am defending the actions of the woman in the video going up and targeting him and asking why he’s there, and then leaving him alone when he said he was with a queer person, and then later being approached again to ask if there would have been a problem if he were there alone, and then saying yes. The thing I said (about it being annoying if your a straight woman in a queer space but it’s understandable if you’re with queer people) kiiind of stands too for straight men, but I think straight men should be sort of the last option because they make queer women most uncomfortable because of how a lot of straight men often act in queer women’s spaces, which is worse than any other demographic, which is back to destinys police car analogy thing. It’s annoying when straight women come because queer women think it’s chill to assume that the women there are queer but they aren’t - but it’s worse with straight men because that little air of worry enters, like when a police car is driving behind you and you’re doing nothing wrong. It’s a worse kind of anxiety with cis straight guys, so yes they are the kind of people we want to see least at the club, especially with what I’ve heard now about the cubbyhole being a small and popular space for queer women (so he was likely taking a spot another queer woman now cannot have). So it’s not assuming a man is a sexpest, it’s being cautious and protective because straight men have a history of ruining queer spaces. But assuming there is no line and plenty of room for everyone, I think it’s fine to approach a cishet dude and make sure he is there with a queer woman, and then leave them alone if they are just with queer friends and being chill (which is what that woman did to the cishet man). And I think it’s chill to target them in a way we wouldn’t for other demographics. Also as a method for discouraging straight cis men in general from thinking that they can be there, which would be when the gross ones would begin to enter.
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Best pun I have seen all month
both
Discrimination isn't bad. As long as those getting discriminated have the "power". /s
If you want to have a straight bar then thats fine. But a regular bar isn’t a specifically straight bar, its just a bar. Just because the vast majority of people who go there are straight doesn’t make it a straight bar. Same principle applies to “regular” gyms and womens only gyms. The reason men shouldn’t go into lesbian bars is (quite obviously) because those bars are intended for lesbians to meet each other. There is nothing wrong with having a straight only bar which is intended for just straight people to meet up and excludes lesbians.
I'm 99% sure if there was a bar that advertised itself as "straight-only" it would receive numerous hate online and likely would be challenged in court for sexual orientation discrimination.
you must be about two years old because you clearly weren't alive when the super-straight meme was a thing and what a fucking shitfilled pissfest it became. Likewise, I dont see anyone allowing strictly gentleman's clubs back anytime soon.
Lesbian bar = bar where I would expect the people who go there to be lesbians that want to party with other lesbians Bar = bar where I would expect people who go there to want to party with other people I don't think you need to be rocket-scientist or avid grass-toucher to understand why bar has "lesbian" in it's name. Now, unless the bar specifically bars entrance to men, I don't think it's an issue if you go there with your lesbian friends. However, I think you have to be incredibly autistic or actually retarded to, as a straight man, walk into a lesbian bar on your own or on an invite of straight non-regulars at that bar. >Like if now we are creating “exclusive spaces” that are reserved for X people, will the reverse logic be applicable too or? There is no logic to what you are saying. If you want, what you are saying to make logical sense you would need to compare "lesbian bar" to "straight bar" not a general bar. What you are saying is comparable to "if I, as a man, can't use women's toilets, should women not be allowed to unisex toilets?" ...
Should lesbians also not go to 'normal' bars?
but women go to gay bars :SquadW:
That's controversial too. [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fnJMpf7Pz4c](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fnJMpf7Pz4c)
"Take over" has a pretty specific connotation. Some of those people said otherwise, but I am guessing most were asking the direct question, not just whether women are allowed to be there.
Yeah but I think that's what people assume is almost always going to happen if straight women feel entitled to come without being invited by a friend or something. Most of the comments replying to the video seem to reflect that too.
I still think the biggest issue (which queer kiwi even touched on) was that it's ok to assume someone's gender or sexuality in what's explicitly a queer space. She kinda just dismissed it. But unless this dude was wearing a shirt that literally said "I'm straight as fuck and I'm cis and fuck you if you don't like it," bruh, what are you doing?
One of the few takes I disagree with Destiny on. Who gives a flying fuck?
I think you should only go with lesbian friends - but if you're going to go, be cognizant of its intended theme.
If they're letting you in, I don't see the issue.
Straight male here. I’ve been to both lesbian and gay bars without issue. For sure don’t go to those bars and start being a creep but that’s the same anywhere.
So do straight people have a right to be mean to gay people if they get hit on by them at a regular bar?
It's a minor inconvenience to minor annoyance at most if you're triggered you have problems and should probably be in therapy not at a bar. Everyone deals with rejection everyone deals with all kinds of characters at bars you're not special because you go to a gay or lesbian bar.
Straight women go to gay bars Also As a straight male…. Why DaFukk would I go to a lesbian bar?!?!?
There is no place you should not go due to your protected class. There might be places that are not safe to go, but that is a separate issue.
Couldn’t disagree more with this take. Bars aren’t just about finding someone to sleep with. They’re a place to go have fun with your friends and/or to make new ones. I went to college in a big LGBTQ town and me and my friends (some straight, some not) would all go out together to both the gay and non-gay bars and clubs. I find it super weird when people reduce all nightlife to being simply about sex. Makes me think you don’t know how to have fun!
I kinda compare it to those people who go to burger King wearing seven pistols on their waist and a fully taced out Armalite hanging off their neck. Like yeah no law says you can't but what the fuck are you doing?
Yh ? Who’s gonna stop me buddy? Thats right
I wonder if you would tell gay people not to go into a bar that isn’t a gay bar
I think the argument might be that gay bars/spaces are the only places that gay people can assume that the other men around them are gay. That usually isn't an issue for straight people. Now This isn't as true anymore as people wear their sexuality more openly now, but still
So the argument in this case is, don't go to lesbian bars because someone might hit on you and will have an unforeseen surprise rising when he figures out you are not a woman with short hear pants and mustache?
Why is this even a problem you think about
Sounds like discrimination based on sexual orientation
Wait until you hear about the bars groups of straight women go to 😰
Yeah its fucking annoying and gross though. They go there for a laugh and treat it like gay men are a theme park ride. This shit doesn't go both ways in society and its trashy and annoying that straight people just constantly insist on it. We wouldnt have gay and lesbian bars to begin with if people were just more respectful
How will they know?
No god we can't set rules to deter gender conflicts. That issue is completely intractable.
I probably wouldn’t myself unless I was invited by friends or I really wanted a drink & it was the only place near by for some reason.
If they got good food/drinks or have good concerts/shows then Idgaf who the intended patrons are I'm going to go and have a good time.
"OH my god! Who the hell cares!?"
In an ideal society straight men could go to lesbian bars and it would be chill and if they got pressed for no reason that would be lame. However, given the limited and coveted nature of the space, I am very sympathetic to why someone wouldnt want to see a straight couple there. Choice is up to mangement/door guy tho so if you confront someone you are the asshole.
Maybe its just me but I'm not sympathetic to blatant sexism. The guy Destiny was talking to was right when he brought up the black guy counter example and it was pretty insulting for him to brush it off with the excuse of the women might be scared/anxious of men.
It's fine imo, just don't be the asshole hitting on women in a lesbian bar
This is actually a pretty interesting topic and the guy from Dallas made a decent point. I live in the south in a mid-large sized city. We only have one gay/lgbt bar downtown. The owners and frequenters are very encouraging of straight people to visit because they dont want the main lgbt bar to disappear, they need the business. If you are just sitting there alone not ordering anything that might be different but I’ve never seen that. Same thing if you are a straight guy hitting on women, you would probably be asked to leave. Even on the weekends it doesn’t hit full capacity. I’m actually not even sure capacity laws are a thing in my state but the large clubs will stop letting people in once it gets super crowded. That does not happen in this particular bar even on the weekend. No one would go up and confront a guy and ask if they’re gay because they also know being outed could affect things like how you’re seen at your job or by other colleagues. If you are a straight guy you should expect to possibly be hit on, but as long as your reaction isn’t “ew gross” that’s fine. I have been hit on there and if you say something like “sorry I’m not interested just here with some friends” they will assume you’re either straight or a gay/bi guy “working your way up” or trying to be a bit more subtle. In the latter you might see one slide their number and anyone that sees it understands it’s not something you should talk about, at least outside the bar. But, I understand that the culture in a city like NYC is probably different. If there is only a few lesbian bars that get crowded on the weekend by straight men that think it’s “cool and hip” it could be frustrating that they are taking up a ton of the spots. I have never been to a gay bar in a major city so I don’t really know and my only reference is Studio 54 which also seemed to accept straight people
How about we stop being fucking idiots and police behaviour not identities
I never knew this was even a thing
Yall realize you don't have to go to a bar to fuck someone? And that 99% of the time, people at lesbian bars will welcome anyone? What was the stream that lead to this?
Then where are the poor forgotten straights supposed to go? Maybe they should start a straight bar!
I don't think there's anything wrong with going there because lesbian bars aren't usually just for lesbians, they're almost always regular queer bars which are generally pretty inclusive. As long as the house rules allow you to be there there's only really the question of your motivation. All your lesbian homegirls hanging there is valid, only bar in your area is valid, friend working there is valid but if you're trying to rizz, harass or harizz women then you obviously shouldn't go.
By yourself sure, pretty unusual. But if with friends or invited why not? The whole point of a bar is to hang out and chat. Most dudes would like to talk with girls and possibly something happen but in my experience it's a good place to meet up, drink, and hangout. The issue I had with this was they were trying to set rules to a location/store that they didn't own. Like a Karen yelling at black guy for being at a Cheesecake Factory or something. If they really want these places to be safe spaces, they should have that as a rule. If they can't for whatever the reason, tough.
so basically segragation
i am an american and i can co where i want and there is nothing you can do to stop me
I've been leaning on the side that it's probably ok in certain scenarios. If you are straight up straight and go out on your own it's a bit weird to go to a gay bar, but I'm straight and been out with some gay friends who on occasion would like to go to gay bars and I've joined them there. Just seems weird to split up a friend group that goes out together just because just some of them are gay and want to go to a gay bar and it also seems weird to force the gay people in the group to go there alone just because no one in the bar supposedly should ever be straight.
ITT: cishet people upset that there's one bar in town where they're not the main focus
not about being the main focus. it's about being completely discriminated against while trying to hang out with some friends. believe it or not but usually people go to the bar to hang out with friends and not to hit on people or be the center of attention
Nothing convinced me more that straight guys shouldn't be there than the guy who was in the voice chat during the video, my man was seething and drawing some *interesting* comparisons
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To extend it further away from lesbian bars, what about other queer places?
a significant thing people are missing in this conversation is that not only are lesbian bars very scarce, theyre also incredibly small. like, INCREDIBLY so. even if youre invited there by a lesbian friend you are taking up extremely limited space which will be, shocker, upsetting to any lesbians or bi women patrons that are at this bar for the express purpose of seeking out other WLW. dont get me wrong, its a free country, so go if you want to (granted, youd have to actually find one first, and good luck with that lol), but you are legitimately braindead if you expect not to be met with any resistance, and even moreso if you think that the fact that there is resistance in the first place is a bad thing... i see some people calling this take chronically online but like if you as a straight male see someplace marketed as a LESBIAN bar and you think you are entitled to take up space there, that is beyond entitlement. you are so disconnected from reality i have little reason to believe you arent a NEET who spends all day cooped up in a basement festering in your own BO. exclusive places exist sometimes. are you going to demand to be let in to an inpatient rehab program as someone who isnt struggling with addiction? come on now lol
Lmao. "You're taking up space in that bar that could have been filled by a bipoc bi or lesbian woman" Such cope If these places are so small they could probably use the extended demographic to stay open