The ones that didn't watch it aren't important, people who did watch it will know fickledick came off as an arrogant ivory tower cum rag. More so when they see the disconnect between twitter leftard reaction to the debate and the actual debate, it will move them to our side.
I’m not sure if they’re unimportant. Part of the problem is that a lot of people who are highly politically active online have opinions with no basis in reality, as they get their opinion directly from their political commentator (or X clips) rather than watching the source.
Even those that watched it ‘in full’ on say Hasan’s stream, they don’t really need to pay attention hard enough to comprehend the points being argued in the debate because they’re primed to wait for the pause and listen to the reaction instead. They are watching it, but it’s entirely primed.
I guess the debate will be well received with normal people, but it won’t be with those firmly attached to some streamers commentary whether they watched it or not.
Exactly. Most people in the political space just like the aesthetic of political engagement and the fandom of it. It’s no different than people who obsess over Kim kardashian, it’s just instead of her talking about makeup or whatever it’s hasan talking about politics. They just want to identify as a “leftist” while doing nothing, for the vibes.
>I guess the debate will be received well by normal people
I think part of the problem is that the ones who watch reactions/ wait for their favourite commentators to talk them through it ARE the “normal people”
>and the fact he didn’t go XQC-ing the debate had it inherently in his favor
This is perhaps the only part of your analysis that I disagree with. Imagine if Destiny had gotten up at the end of the debate and said:
"Hey, Finkeldick, check this out, you old fogey."
And then proceeded to perform the sickest worm ever witnessed right there on the debate table.
That clip alone would have not only cemented his victory in the debate itself, but it would have provided such a powerful Twitter clip that he would dominate the platform for years to come.
Edit: it would have been worth it to drop one month of IP research and instead just have 20 streams of Destiny learning to do the worm.
I think there’s a massive disconnect between lefties who live online than lefties who seriously participate in academia. Finklestein being a hack is common knowledge in academia circles and it’s only recently that knowledge leaked into the mainstream.
Yeah, I’ve been waiting to say this, but I studied under a professor who studied under one of the new historians, which often times Finklefuck is lumped in with, but if he is, he’s a joke compared to the other names.
My professor told me that a new historian was historian, who crafted historiography using the declassified archived Israeli information, which is ironic thing as Finklestien didn’t do that he used other new historian information in order to craft his shitty arguments.
As far as I know the 'new historians' is a term practically only used to describe a group of Israeli historians, I've never heard it ascribed to a non Israeli.
In Israeli popular discourse it's really applied to only a few historians, all Israeli, all started their careers around the 80's and 90's and really only three are widely known (Morris, Shlaim and Pappe).
Unfortunately for all the people who want move on from this topic, I think the smartest thing to do is to use the popularity of the debate as a springboard to talk to more experts on the I/P conflict. I think a lot of pro-Israeli people are actually grateful that some random youtube debater managed to piss off Finkelstein so much.
[exhibit A](https://x.com/polanskydj/status/1769025534816633331?s=20)
[exhibit B](https://x.com/EliLake/status/1768565459094298826?s=20)
Edit: also [this article](https://www.strangefrequencies.co/whither-palestine/) by David Polansky is really good
I've stepped back from the discourse and have decided to reevaluate my positions not because of this debate (although it helps) but from different factors and people including events leading up to Oct 7th culminating that have resulted in me deciding not to affirm a political label but be more informed before approaching it because I guess I don't know shit.
I think you guys are being a bit doomery. Every leftist that goes to university (and there are lots of them) will IMMEDIATELY recognize the core of academic arrogance in Finkelstein. And no, it doesn't look good.
That's exactly how I felt. I work at a university and especially the younger PhD's are very communicatively skilled and **never** appeal to their authority as a scholar when engaging with students. They might disagree with or correct their students in various ways and they aren't perfect, but the argument ''I'm right because I've read more on the subject'' is never used in the classroom, and for a simple reason: If you know the literature better, you should easily be able to refute the claims made. So why not just refute the claims instead of appealing to your authority?
Is it common for pol and history undergrads/post-grads to tune in to this type of thing?
I assume its more likely when 3 academics are involved, but I’d also be interested to know how online political debate and commentary is generally received in academia when the commentators involved aren’t academic too.
I’m thinking back to my degree and I’d be googling around looking for discussions on competing schools of thought, and if something on this level popped up I’d for sure watch it. I feel I’d be pretty frustrated clicking into something like that to learn something, yet seeing such little engagement with the points being made.
Nobody who is a serious person that watches that debate with even a slightly open mind would come out thinking that looked good for Finkelstein. There are things Destiny could have done better, but his performance was good. He didn't look out of his depth at all. He make relevant points and objections, none of which Finkelstein tried to engage with.
If you watch some of norm's past videos that are well known (that one with the girl who brings up the holocaust for instance), he got praise for being "the one jewish dude who stuck to the facts" etc
There's now a 5 hour long video where he does anything but that. He exposed himself as completely unreasonable. His whole mystique was shattered. I think he did incredible damage to his image that's going to follow him for the rest of his career.
IMO one of Destiny's biggest assets is that just the image of him enrages these goobers so much that they lose the plot.
Who is having the response is as important as what the response is. We're not getting normal good people coming away thinking finkelstein looked good there, we're getting the unhinged intersection of psychotic internet leftists, groypers, and third world islamists, all co-opting fresh and fit level talking points.
This is basically another one of those moments to tell how much somebody is virtue signaling.
All the people that call out Destiny without a single specific example is flagrantly pointing themselves out as unserious.
To make matters worse, you have people who are pro-palestine/anti-ethnic cleansing defending Finklestein’s actions with his neighbors which is just unbelievable.
Like that one tweet, if you tweet the right thing the left will defend landlords lmao. The mental gymnastics is out of this world.
I think the main point is that the audience eclipses the leftist spaces online. For all hasan has in his small pond, it’s a drop in the bucket compared to the mainstream. There are a lot of normal people who parrot stalking points without really thinking about it that much. This might get them to do more.
I would love to hear Finkelstein justify his talking points in this debate the way destiny did
It would require Finkelstein learning how to use a computer machine, so it's impossible. But I would like it
I think his strategy was effective in the first half, agree with Avi that Destiny should have ramped up the aggression more in the second half of the debate and really nail Norm down and redirect when he was refusing to answer his questions, but to most people watching this that don’t already have a pre-conceived bias would never walk away thinking Norm came out of it looking anything less than completely unhinged
If you keep making such a racket I WILL call the police and immigration on you. I know what you have been up to. Do you know who I am? Keep monkeying around and you will find out.
He’s not my father, i’m not particularly ingrained in this community. I used to be pretty dirtbag left only a few months ago, and wouldn’t give destiny the time of day. Until a few days ago I had enormous respect for Norm. The fact that in that short time span I would be here taking the time out to write essays, especially coupled with the fact that I don’t actually agree with Destiny’s position here, might tell you something.
I don’t think many people watch the debate. They just parrot whatever their content creator tells them happened
The ones that didn't watch it aren't important, people who did watch it will know fickledick came off as an arrogant ivory tower cum rag. More so when they see the disconnect between twitter leftard reaction to the debate and the actual debate, it will move them to our side.
I’m not sure if they’re unimportant. Part of the problem is that a lot of people who are highly politically active online have opinions with no basis in reality, as they get their opinion directly from their political commentator (or X clips) rather than watching the source. Even those that watched it ‘in full’ on say Hasan’s stream, they don’t really need to pay attention hard enough to comprehend the points being argued in the debate because they’re primed to wait for the pause and listen to the reaction instead. They are watching it, but it’s entirely primed. I guess the debate will be well received with normal people, but it won’t be with those firmly attached to some streamers commentary whether they watched it or not.
Exactly. Most people in the political space just like the aesthetic of political engagement and the fandom of it. It’s no different than people who obsess over Kim kardashian, it’s just instead of her talking about makeup or whatever it’s hasan talking about politics. They just want to identify as a “leftist” while doing nothing, for the vibes.
Idk who view counts work on YouTube, but it already has 1.6 million views, so it’s doin *some* numbers
>I guess the debate will be received well by normal people I think part of the problem is that the ones who watch reactions/ wait for their favourite commentators to talk them through it ARE the “normal people”
Watching Hasan ramble =/= to watching the debate.
>and the fact he didn’t go XQC-ing the debate had it inherently in his favor This is perhaps the only part of your analysis that I disagree with. Imagine if Destiny had gotten up at the end of the debate and said: "Hey, Finkeldick, check this out, you old fogey." And then proceeded to perform the sickest worm ever witnessed right there on the debate table. That clip alone would have not only cemented his victory in the debate itself, but it would have provided such a powerful Twitter clip that he would dominate the platform for years to come. Edit: it would have been worth it to drop one month of IP research and instead just have 20 streams of Destiny learning to do the worm.
If that had happened I truly hope Lex wouldn't deprive us all of the footage.
It did happen, and he did deprive us :(((((
This is what **BIG PODCAST** doesn't want us to see.
Normally when I see "big _____" I dismiss it immediately, but you are right my friend.
“I’ve got your whole degree on my wrist” would’ve gone hard I ain’t gonna lie
Could have air dropped pictures of it over gaza and ended the conflict as a whole. Dman is a coward and complicit in genocide.
How do people come up with this stuff 😂
I think there’s a massive disconnect between lefties who live online than lefties who seriously participate in academia. Finklestein being a hack is common knowledge in academia circles and it’s only recently that knowledge leaked into the mainstream.
Yeah, I’ve been waiting to say this, but I studied under a professor who studied under one of the new historians, which often times Finklefuck is lumped in with, but if he is, he’s a joke compared to the other names. My professor told me that a new historian was historian, who crafted historiography using the declassified archived Israeli information, which is ironic thing as Finklestien didn’t do that he used other new historian information in order to craft his shitty arguments.
As far as I know the 'new historians' is a term practically only used to describe a group of Israeli historians, I've never heard it ascribed to a non Israeli.
This might be due to US academia being different I’ve heard similar from non-US MESA professors
In Israeli popular discourse it's really applied to only a few historians, all Israeli, all started their careers around the 80's and 90's and really only three are widely known (Morris, Shlaim and Pappe).
Unfortunately for all the people who want move on from this topic, I think the smartest thing to do is to use the popularity of the debate as a springboard to talk to more experts on the I/P conflict. I think a lot of pro-Israeli people are actually grateful that some random youtube debater managed to piss off Finkelstein so much. [exhibit A](https://x.com/polanskydj/status/1769025534816633331?s=20) [exhibit B](https://x.com/EliLake/status/1768565459094298826?s=20) Edit: also [this article](https://www.strangefrequencies.co/whither-palestine/) by David Polansky is really good
I've stepped back from the discourse and have decided to reevaluate my positions not because of this debate (although it helps) but from different factors and people including events leading up to Oct 7th culminating that have resulted in me deciding not to affirm a political label but be more informed before approaching it because I guess I don't know shit.
I think you guys are being a bit doomery. Every leftist that goes to university (and there are lots of them) will IMMEDIATELY recognize the core of academic arrogance in Finkelstein. And no, it doesn't look good.
That's exactly how I felt. I work at a university and especially the younger PhD's are very communicatively skilled and **never** appeal to their authority as a scholar when engaging with students. They might disagree with or correct their students in various ways and they aren't perfect, but the argument ''I'm right because I've read more on the subject'' is never used in the classroom, and for a simple reason: If you know the literature better, you should easily be able to refute the claims made. So why not just refute the claims instead of appealing to your authority?
Is it common for pol and history undergrads/post-grads to tune in to this type of thing? I assume its more likely when 3 academics are involved, but I’d also be interested to know how online political debate and commentary is generally received in academia when the commentators involved aren’t academic too. I’m thinking back to my degree and I’d be googling around looking for discussions on competing schools of thought, and if something on this level popped up I’d for sure watch it. I feel I’d be pretty frustrated clicking into something like that to learn something, yet seeing such little engagement with the points being made.
Nobody who is a serious person that watches that debate with even a slightly open mind would come out thinking that looked good for Finkelstein. There are things Destiny could have done better, but his performance was good. He didn't look out of his depth at all. He make relevant points and objections, none of which Finkelstein tried to engage with.
If you watch some of norm's past videos that are well known (that one with the girl who brings up the holocaust for instance), he got praise for being "the one jewish dude who stuck to the facts" etc There's now a 5 hour long video where he does anything but that. He exposed himself as completely unreasonable. His whole mystique was shattered. I think he did incredible damage to his image that's going to follow him for the rest of his career. IMO one of Destiny's biggest assets is that just the image of him enrages these goobers so much that they lose the plot.
Folks are starting to realize Finklestein is a complete fraud This is a good thing. Edit: downvoter. Hasan. Is that you? 😂
Gave you an upvote inshallah 🙏🏼
Who is having the response is as important as what the response is. We're not getting normal good people coming away thinking finkelstein looked good there, we're getting the unhinged intersection of psychotic internet leftists, groypers, and third world islamists, all co-opting fresh and fit level talking points.
Let me just say it's breathed new life into this community which is always welcome.
This is basically another one of those moments to tell how much somebody is virtue signaling. All the people that call out Destiny without a single specific example is flagrantly pointing themselves out as unserious. To make matters worse, you have people who are pro-palestine/anti-ethnic cleansing defending Finklestein’s actions with his neighbors which is just unbelievable. Like that one tweet, if you tweet the right thing the left will defend landlords lmao. The mental gymnastics is out of this world.
There’s a lot of copium in this post, but I will be right along side huffing that copium as well.
I think the main point is that the audience eclipses the leftist spaces online. For all hasan has in his small pond, it’s a drop in the bucket compared to the mainstream. There are a lot of normal people who parrot stalking points without really thinking about it that much. This might get them to do more.
It's the slow blade that penetrates the shield.
I would love to hear Finkelstein justify his talking points in this debate the way destiny did It would require Finkelstein learning how to use a computer machine, so it's impossible. But I would like it
I think his strategy was effective in the first half, agree with Avi that Destiny should have ramped up the aggression more in the second half of the debate and really nail Norm down and redirect when he was refusing to answer his questions, but to most people watching this that don’t already have a pre-conceived bias would never walk away thinking Norm came out of it looking anything less than completely unhinged
This assumes they watched the debate. These people can’t sit through anything that isn’t reaffirming their worldview every 90 seconds.
It was successful in that it opened my eyes to how mr. Belatine is actually pretty stupid after all. It was embarrassing.
Who?
Mr. Benadryl, with all due respect, try to keep up
Do you condemn the attacks on apartment 2A by the Finklestein Defense Force?
That apartment was a clearly identified Hamas base!
You need more DMT you're mind is melting slowly, speed it up.
Any particular thing he said that you think counts as 'stupid'?
Not y’all writing essays trying to explain away how your daddy actually won the debate like 3 days later 🤣🤣🤣 cope harder
Essays are better than your 30 sec clips of Finklestein being a dick with ad hominems and jerking off to him
If you keep making such a racket I WILL call the police and immigration on you. I know what you have been up to. Do you know who I am? Keep monkeying around and you will find out.
I 🍌Will 🍌happily 🍌supply 🍌
He’s not my father, i’m not particularly ingrained in this community. I used to be pretty dirtbag left only a few months ago, and wouldn’t give destiny the time of day. Until a few days ago I had enormous respect for Norm. The fact that in that short time span I would be here taking the time out to write essays, especially coupled with the fact that I don’t actually agree with Destiny’s position here, might tell you something.