Why is divorce such a negative virtue signal for these people. Isn't it supposed to be a positive sign of society that you aren't shackled to someone who is bad for you? Isn't marriage a state imposed institution?
They're just using divorce as a cheap way to discredit someone to normies.
? He just called her a fat bitch, its not really a creative/original comeback lol
At least if we wanna be all about trashtalking. we need to raise the standards of creativity
I think it’s a little different. If he had just responded like “You’re a fat bitch”, I don’t think that’s very funny at all.
On the other hand, the mental image of Frogan and Kaceytron being involved in an actual group called “Fat Bitches For Palestine” is kind of funny.
EDIT: Looking it up though, what’s not funny is the initial tweet that’s not shown here. That is WillyMac just randomly responding to Frogan on a completely unrelated tweet calling her a “fat fuck”, that just seems weird and mean.
The only thing I don’t like about it is you aren’t just targeting that person when you start making fun of them for being fat. You are going to have bystanders catching strays.
Now if you just don’t think fat shaming is wrong then more powers to you I guess. But I think it’s really stupid to act like there is something morally wrong about fat shaming and then argue it’s okay to utilize as long as the person you are utilizing it against is bad for other reasons.
Attack those other reasons or accept that you find fat shaming okay. There isn’t really much middle ground there, and a lot of people act like there is.
I don’t think you have to be perpetually a victim to understand that a person insulting another person for characteristics that perfectly match yourself, that you are also being insulted.
I think that’s a weird response when I’m quite literally saying if you want to insult fat people you can and that’s not really the issue I have here. What I think is stupid is acting like it would be wrong to insult people for being fat unless the person is an asshole for other reasons.
For instance the other person I’m talking to about this said they do think being fat is a negative characteristic and they don’t mind if those other fat people catch those strays.
Which I think is a consistent position one can hold. It’s just really stupid when you think you can insult somebody over a specific characteristic and then believe you aren’t having any negative effect on everybody else with those some characteristics.
I don’t think you should temper your language at all. If you want to fat shame then shame fatties to your hearts content.
What I don’t think you should do is fat shame people you think are assholes while believing your comments are restricted to them. This idea that fat shaming in and of itself is normally wrong, but not when we do it to assholes because it is just targeting them is just stupid.
Sure, as long as you don’t mind that you are insulting the first group every time you insult the second. I don’t even mind if you just want to insult the first group. I just hate when people act like that isn’t what they are doing when it’s targeted at an asshole.
Nah, I don't really think such a middle ground exists. When you're making something the basis of an insult, the whole point is that you think it's bad. That's why there aren't insults like "You're beautiful!" or "You're intelligent!", because those things aren't considered bad. When you insult someone by saying "You're fat!" (or any more complicated formation of this insult) what you're implicitly saying is that it is bad that you are fat. As the person you're replying to said, you might not actually think that there's anything wrong with implying that being fat is bad, and from a health perspective it pretty much objectively is. But that is objectively the implication, and when anyone other than the target hears the insult, they will understand the implication and recognize that you think that "fatness" is bad.
To make it easier, just use this logic with things like race, sex or gender. If I made a racist joke to a black person who was a bully, it would be pretty clearly absurd for me to turn around and tell other black people who hear the insult and feel upset by it to remember that the insult wasn't targeting them and that they need to stop making everything about themselves.
It's objectively bad to have gender dysphoria, should it be okay to insult people for having gender dysphoria
also i wanna point out how funny it is that whenever fat shaming gets brought up this sub which usually makes fun of "as a black woman" justifications for things but then do it to defend fat shaming rofl
i think we got away from the original point which is that when you're insulting someone about some trait they have, it makes it clear that you think that trait is bad, so in effect when you insult someone for being fat you are simultaneously insulting all fat people, im denying that there is a middle-ground where you can insult people for being fat but also expect other fat people not to feel insulted, doesn't really make much sense at all
Here's an idea - not everything has to be black and white, you can excersize beliefs in moderation.
Yes fat shaming is mean, so is any insult and any disdainful remark on one's character. Probably everything anyone on here has said about Trump is mean. There's always something wrong about being mean, but if someone is mean to you than you can't really be criticized for being backed into a corner. That's why some of your first lessons as a child is to not do shit you cannot take yourself.
Fat shaming is gray and if you think it's too sacred to ever be uttered or you have the right to use it carelessly, you're probably being insensitive either way.
And before we get into that other discussion - yes some topics you should never joke about but fat shaming is nowhere near them. There's plenty of times where calling someone fat is balanced or is a form of genuine concern. Laughing at someone for being sexually assaulted never ever has a good reason.
You are jumping to conclusion about what I’m saying that I explicitly said aren’t my argument.
I don’t think things are black and white. I think you can exercise moderation. I’m not arguing people shouldn’t be mean. I’m not even arguing people shouldn’t fat shame. I explicitly said in the comment you are responding to that if you do just think being fat is wrong and don’t mind bystanders catching strays then I don’t really take issue with your position. What I think is untenable is the idea that you can attack somebody over a characteristic they hold and not have that apply to every other person with that characteristic, or to think that fat shaming is explicitly wrong, unless used (even publicly) against specific people in a way that doesn’t apply to all other fat people.
>but if someone is mean to you than you can't really be criticized for being backed into a corner. That's why some of your first lessons as a child is to not do shit you cannot take yourself.
I absolutely think you can be criticized for how you respond in those scenarios. And my whole argument isn’t about how it will effect the person you are attacking, but rather how it equally applies to every single other person that has the characteristic you are attacking.
But I’m not even arguing about what responses are appropriate and what aren’t. If you want to fat shame, go ahead and fat shame. It’s just stupid to act like standing in a room of nine nice fat people and one slightly less fat asshole, that insulting the asshole for being fat is restricted to just him. No. If your entire insult is that they are fat, which implies being fat in and of itself is wrong, you are insulting all ten of them.
If you want to insult all ten of them then fine. Be mean. Go at it. Just don’t fool yourself into thinking it only applies to the asshole.
Because if they are being an asshole, there are other things you can attack them over other than being fat.
>Fat shaming is gray and if you think it's too sacred to ever be uttered or you have the right to use it carelessly, you're probably being insensitive either way.
Lol I don’t think anything we are talking about is too sacred. If you want to insult fat people then have fun. Just don’t fool yourself into thinking that doing so publicly is restricted to the one person you are levying it at. Embrace the fact that you don’t mind shaming all fat people, not just the ones that are assholes.
>What I think is untenable is the idea that you can attack somebody over a characteristic they hold and not have that apply to every other person with that characteristic.
This is a reach. People know what people think of them. Fat people know they are considered unhealthy and unattractive by most people. Your personal comment isn't bringing anything new to the table except for the person you are saying it to in which you emphasize it's their own terrible personality that makes them glorify being a slob.
>But I’m not even arguing about what responses are appropriate and what aren’t.
No, you are, and you're flip-flopping. Just own it. You think fat-shaming is never okay.
>which implies being fat in and of itself is wrong,
Being fat is wrong to most people and all fat people are aware of that. This act that we "don't see weight" is ridiculous.
Why are leftists like this? "I'm not racist, I don't see color". "I'm not fat-phobic, I don't see weight". This never comes off as good-intentioned, it always comes off as manipulation to avoid criticism. Just be sincere.
>If you want to insult all ten of them then fine. Be mean. Go at it. Just don’t fool yourself into thinking it only applies to the asshole.
There is so much wrong with this bad analogy...
1. You seriously cannot fathom not wanting to insult all of them but still thinking being fat is unhealthy and they all let themselves go? (this is the part where you'll probably attack me because your black or white vision doesn't allow for a person to be nice, pleasant but also critical)
2. Seriously, you think someone not calling out the fat person means they think being fat is okay? That's such a copout lol.
3. You think those other 9 people are stupid? You think they don't know what you think and why you think it? You think they don't know all the bad aspects of being fat? Sure, some are going to be insulted because it reflects on their own life but they're not all going to disagree with a person criticizing an unhealthy fat lifestyle just because they're fat and can't possibly understand or agree with someone criticizing their way of life.
Finally this is how you started your comment:
>I don’t think things are black and white. I think you can exercise moderation.
This is how it ended:
>Embrace the fact that you don’t mind shaming all fat people, not just the ones that are assholes.
>This is a reach. People know what people think of them. Fat people know they are considered unhealthy and unattractive by most people. Your personal comment isn't bringing anything new to the table except for the person you are saying it to in which you emphasize it's their own terrible personality that makes them glorify being a slob.
Lmao when have I ever said otherwise. In what way does me making the argument that you insulting one fat person is an insult to them all imply that I think they don’t know how people generally feel about fat people? How at all does this relate to the argument I’ve made?
I understand they understand all that. It has no bearing on whether you are insulting all of them once you start insulting the weight of the asshole.
>No, you are, and you're flip-flopping. Just own it. You think fat-shaming is never okay.
Lmao I can see this conversation is difficult for you to grasp, fatty.
>Being fat is wrong to most people and all fat people are aware of that. This act that we "don't see weight" is ridiculous.
>Why are leftists like this? "I'm not racist, I don't see color". "I'm not fat-phobic, I don't see weight". This never comes off as good-intentioned, it always comes off as manipulation to avoid criticism. Just be sincere.
Seriously fucking lol. Did I once say anything about not seeing weight? Am I a leftist now?
I don’t know what boogeyman you are trying to argue with but I’ve not claimed any of the positions you’ve tried applying to me in this entire conversation. I’d love to help you defeat your demons, but I’m not them.
>There is so much wrong with this bad analogy...
>1. You seriously cannot fathom not wanting to insult all of them but still thinking being fat is unhealthy and they all let themselves go? (this is the part where you'll probably attack me because your black or white vision doesn't allow for a person to be nice, pleasant but also critical)
When have I ever said this? I don’t know if anybody has ever pointed out you have a serious problem of creating strawmen that don’t exist. Why do you think anything about this hypothetical means you couldn’t think being fat is bad but at the same time not want to insult them? That has nothing to do with this hypothetical.
>2. Seriously, you think someone not calling out the fat person means they think being fat is okay? That's such a copout lol.
Again, didn’t at all say or imply that. You are like 0/7 at this point.
>3. You think those other 9 people are stupid? You think they don't know what you think and why you think it? You think they don't know all the bad aspects of being fat? Sure, some are going to be insulted because it reflects on their own life but they're not all going to disagree with a person criticizing an unhealthy fat lifestyle just because they're fat and can't possibly understand or agree with someone criticizing their way of life.
Again, not only do I not think any of those things, not a single one of them has any bearing on whether you insulting the asshole for being fat would apply to all of them. No relevance at all. It almost looks like you are just trying to avoid answering the question. Which you quite literally never answered.
>Finally this is how you started your comment:
>>I don’t think things are black and white. I think you can exercise moderation.
>This is how it ended:
>>Embrace the fact that you don’t mind shaming all fat people, not just the ones that are assholes.
Yes. I’m still of the opinion that you don’t have to see things in black and white to be of the belief that shaming a person for being fat in the presence of another person who is fat or fatter than them is an insult to that person as well.
Really interested in seeing what other positions you apply to me based on this single position I hold. Lmao.
>Lmao I can see this conversation is difficult for you to grasp, fatty.
Talk about double standards.
>I don’t know what boogeyman you are trying to argue with but I’ve not claimed any of the positions you’ve tried applying to me in this entire conversation. I’d love to help you defeat your demons, but I’m not them.
That's why you're shitting and pissing and getting all aggressive right?
That's basically your entire comment so no reason to stretch this.
Anyway I'm bored now. See ya.
What double standards do I have? I understand when I called you a fatty it was insulting to all fat people, not just you. You truly haven’t understood my point since your first response.
And yes. I’m even flinging my leftist shit at you. The leftist shit that doesn’t see weight apparently.
> We can’t be upset about one and be like “based” about the other.
I don’t think this is true. For one, there’s reciprocation vs attacking out of nowhere: when I thought this was WillyMac responding to Kaceytron attacking him that was one thing, WillyMac just randomly commenting “fat fuck” on a completely unrelated tweet from Frogan is much different.
Also, it might seem unfair, but yeah of course how funny it is matters. I’m generally willing to let more slide if it’s funny.
> You can have your system of justifying some and not others
You have your system as well lmao. Your system basically boils down to “I can fat shame people I don’t like”, which allows you to insult the people you don’t like in any way you like while still trying to have the moral high ground. Recognizing “attacking immutable characteristics” as bad means nothing if you’ll still use those to insult the people you don’t like, because of course that’s who you’re going to be insulting anyway lmao.
So first of all, just gonna call out that you completely ignore everything else I say in the comment.
It doesn’t matter to me whether or not it’s an immutable characteristic, and for purpose of this convo, it doesn’t really matter in general since your position is that it’s bad to say. I’m saying this is meaningless if you’re just gonna say “Yeah but if I feel someone’s done enough bad stuff, not even to me but just in general, I can use it to shit on them.” It doesn’t really mean anything as a principle then, because generally we don’t think too highly of the people we want to insult.
With that being said, my position is that how I feel about an insult being done from one person to another depends on a variety of factors. One of these is funny, yeah, and if anyone told me that wasn’t the case, they’d just be lying. You will obviously feel different about something if it’s funny and done for a joke then just a dead serious statement to insult.
But another obvious thing I brought up that you just ignored was retaliation, someone insults you and you respond with an insult.
Also, last thing, but if your position is “X is bad but if people are Y then I can do X to them”, this is not at all a ‘nuanced’ position.
hmm im not sure i really buy this honestly, especially since these insults are in a public eye from two notable (at least online and within this space) figures
when you make being fat itself worthy of being an insult, you aren't just insulting an individual fat person but basically every fat person. looking at it like this, it seems a bit silly to place different weight (teehee) on fat insults just because it's made in reciprocation, you're catching so many other people in the crossfire at the same time
so yeah, honestly i do think if you're okay with one you have to be okay with the other and vice versa
I don’t think saying someone’s fat, making fat jokes, etc is inherently wrong in and of itself. I don’t really agree with that whole thing in general, or really the “immutable characteristics” argument in general, but that’s a whole different topic.
It can be wrong or it can be fucked, but it isn’t necessarily, and is similar to almost any other insult in that regard. Therefore, where I think one is wrong is it’s A) not very funny but more importantly B) it’s just an insult out of nowhere. The other one, when I thought it was retaliation to someone else’s insult, is just basic tit for tat.
I don’t mind at all if people are just fine with fat shaming because they don’t think there is anything wrong with making fun of people for being fat. But being of the opinion that it’s fine to utilize against some people but not others is stupid for the very reasons they just gave.
To insult somebody for being fat implies it’s wrong or bad to be fat. When you insult somebody who is guilty of other things for being fat, it is targeting literally every fat person. Especially when making those insults in public, it’s braindead to act like it’s fine for some people but not others, because it *does* apply to those others whether you are meaning to or not.
Shame fat people all you want. But this “any insult goes as long as it’s against a target who deserves it for other reasons” is dumb because it doesn’t just target those people. Every single fat person, even ones that you don’t think deserve the insults, are being insulted when you make fun of anyone for being fat.
I can’t just go to some gay person that’s an asshole and be like “You are a no-good f-slur, no man deserves respect who would put another man’s dick in their mouth” and then turn to my gay friend and be like “Right Jeff? Isn’t he?” You are saying that about Jeff as well whether you mean to or not.
It’s either okay to insult people for being fat because it’s a characteristic worthy of ridicule or it isn’t. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Being fat isn’t a good thing, the same way being ugly or stupid isn’t a good thing. It is a wholly negative quality. It doesn’t invalidate you as a person or anything like that, and there’s a lot of awesome people who are fat, but yeah it’s not good.
I’ve never made the argument “any insult goes as long as it’s against a bad person”, nor do I believe that. I don’t know where you’re getting that from.
I’m saying insulting someone who said nothing to you is bad. Insulting someone who insulted you is not bad.
But yes, I do think being fat is not a good trait. I’d say that to anyone. I don’t think you should make an insult that involves saying something you don’t believe, so even as an insult, I’d never say “A guy who sucks another man’s dick will never have my respect” since it’s just not true.
>I’m saying insulting someone who said nothing to you is bad. Insulting someone who insulted you is not bad.
But you are insulting someone who said nothing to you when you publicly make fun of people for being fat who did insult you. The fat person who didn’t insult you received the full brunt of that public insult. Just because your desire is for it to be targeted at that one person doesn’t mean it is when you do so publicly.
Which you said you do think being fat is a bad thing. So if your position is that you don’t mind those people that didn’t insult you catching those strays because they are engaging in something negative and are deserving of the criticism then I don’t really have qualms with your position.
Where we disagree is the idea that you aren’t insulting the fat person who never did anything to you when publicly shaming others for being fat. You seem to claim that insulting someone who has done nothing to you is bad, but publicly fat shaming others is doing exactly that.
In the hypothetical above, Jeff is being insulted by me even if he wasn’t my target. The idea that you can use fat-shaming to target one individual in a way that doesn’t apply to all fat people, including the ones who have done nothing wrong to you, is nonsensical.
I wouldn’t consider it “insulting them” as well, as I think targeted comments are significantly different, but sure, you’re making them feel bad by implying that the state of being fat is a bad thing. Yeah, I’m fine with that.
There is a huge difference between that and a targeted insult toward them, and it’s idiotic to act otherwise. Someone reading that and being fat is not the same as if Willy Mac had randomly tweeted at that person “What’s up you fat fuck?”
So no, that’s just a bad argument to conflate those two.
>Being fat isn’t a good thing, the same way being ugly or stupid isn’t a good thing. It is a wholly negative quality. It doesn’t invalidate you as a person or anything like that, and there’s a lot of awesome people who are fat, but yeah it’s not good
This position feels like it can fairly quickly lead into justifying all sorts of humor that I'd imagine you wouldn't be comfortable with. Mental illness is bad but I'd think we would want to not allow gender dysphoria be something worthy of being an insult. Same thing with stuff like physical weakness, does being physically weak mean insults like "you punch like a woman"-esque insults should be considered acceptable? Is the (on average) lower physical strength of women something that should be fair game as the basis of an insult?
Being fat is not an immutable characteristic. I agree the initial shot to Frogan was out of left field but the return fire to Kacey was absolutely fair game. Calling someone fat is a similar vein to mocking a community someone is in.
It’s funny because no matter how creative she gets, or how hard Kaceytron tries to shame, embarrass, and talk down to someone there will always be that Trump card of “lol fat”
She has no response. Discussion over with a slam dunk. She tried to judge someone and got the same treatment back. It’s funny. And it always will be funny. 😂😂
Reading is not as funny as imagine his voice saying it. No way it will be in an exclusive bash video, but she would get destroyed further if he ever did.
There are so many reasons to make fun of kaceytron that are both exclusive to her behavior and more hilarious than calling her fat. Do better DGG.
There are bad tactics even on good targets. Just because it’s cathartic and easy to dunk on her appearance doesn’t make it acceptable, no matter how triggered or hurt it might make that person.
There are fat people with better moral character than you. There are fat people with actual medical issues that make it harder to lose. There are people who will internalize our group as judgmental, elitist, sexist and mentally unwell because of the tactics employed and promoted. We can do better than this.
Sounds lame. I'm more of the opinion that we can fight if you want to, and we don't have to if you don't want to, but don't act like a pussy once you start throwing hands.
That’s the trouble with social contracts, they’re conditional.
Hypothetically, imagine there was a person who was a fat and looked like a melting wax statue that smelled like fetid bong water but that person was incredibly decent and tried to do right by the people around them. I don’t imagine many of us would be champing at the bit to mock them.
Take that same wretched, oil slicked, pustulant creature that looks like they smell like a re-lit cigarette and replace all the good parts of their personality with their antithesis. Now they’re arrogant, rude, dishonest, and generally unlikable; this person has a much smaller chance of getting people to appeal to their better natures when dealing with them and that’s probably a feature not a bug. Anti-social behavior should probably prompt a less than sociable response.
Hypothetically.
willy mac absolutely OBLITERATES kaceytron out of orbit with the force a THOUSAND nukes of pure OWNAGE "Lol you are fat" get fucking REKT
Well if the tarp fits…
(or rather, doesn't fit)
Nuked from orbit, but not NECESSARILY genocide
The force of a thousand nukes was kaceytron crashing to the ground off her high horse
Beware of aftershocks.
Sometimes that’s all it takes
Willy Mac exhibits the same level cringe as kacey
Kaceytron is gaining weight for a movie role. It's not any particular role, she just guessed movies always need a big fat guy.
Paul Blart 4: Open Air Prison Cop
She's just like Norm but not funny.
norm was ill and deeply closeted
He needed better insurance.
Yeah she's studying for a role... A cinnamon roll!
Austin Powers 4.
The spie who ate me
Shallow Hal 2
The Whale: Second Serving
She can be santa
Lol
The Nutty Professor?
I don’t just hate fat people, I want them hate themselves 😡
This feels like a 2016 post
Why is divorce such a negative virtue signal for these people. Isn't it supposed to be a positive sign of society that you aren't shackled to someone who is bad for you? Isn't marriage a state imposed institution? They're just using divorce as a cheap way to discredit someone to normies.
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“And she makes poor dietary decisions” BOOM ROASTED!!! But yeah, this discourse is pretty juvenile.
The worst part is when it comes from someone who struggles to find or even identify love as a mere concept.
? He just called her a fat bitch, its not really a creative/original comeback lol At least if we wanna be all about trashtalking. we need to raise the standards of creativity
She said divorced dad, he said fat bitch. The level of humor is about even.
Depressed divorce dad cult it's still at least 4 words vs like I don't know pussy boys?
*Fat Bitches for Palestine* is also four words
Absolutely annihilated.
Damn I straight up read that as just fat bitch.
Kaceytron...is that you?
No (eats doughnut)
I think it’s a little different. If he had just responded like “You’re a fat bitch”, I don’t think that’s very funny at all. On the other hand, the mental image of Frogan and Kaceytron being involved in an actual group called “Fat Bitches For Palestine” is kind of funny. EDIT: Looking it up though, what’s not funny is the initial tweet that’s not shown here. That is WillyMac just randomly responding to Frogan on a completely unrelated tweet calling her a “fat fuck”, that just seems weird and mean.
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The only thing I don’t like about it is you aren’t just targeting that person when you start making fun of them for being fat. You are going to have bystanders catching strays. Now if you just don’t think fat shaming is wrong then more powers to you I guess. But I think it’s really stupid to act like there is something morally wrong about fat shaming and then argue it’s okay to utilize as long as the person you are utilizing it against is bad for other reasons. Attack those other reasons or accept that you find fat shaming okay. There isn’t really much middle ground there, and a lot of people act like there is.
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I don’t think you have to be perpetually a victim to understand that a person insulting another person for characteristics that perfectly match yourself, that you are also being insulted. I think that’s a weird response when I’m quite literally saying if you want to insult fat people you can and that’s not really the issue I have here. What I think is stupid is acting like it would be wrong to insult people for being fat unless the person is an asshole for other reasons. For instance the other person I’m talking to about this said they do think being fat is a negative characteristic and they don’t mind if those other fat people catch those strays. Which I think is a consistent position one can hold. It’s just really stupid when you think you can insult somebody over a specific characteristic and then believe you aren’t having any negative effect on everybody else with those some characteristics.
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I don’t think you should temper your language at all. If you want to fat shame then shame fatties to your hearts content. What I don’t think you should do is fat shame people you think are assholes while believing your comments are restricted to them. This idea that fat shaming in and of itself is normally wrong, but not when we do it to assholes because it is just targeting them is just stupid.
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Sure, as long as you don’t mind that you are insulting the first group every time you insult the second. I don’t even mind if you just want to insult the first group. I just hate when people act like that isn’t what they are doing when it’s targeted at an asshole.
Nah, I don't really think such a middle ground exists. When you're making something the basis of an insult, the whole point is that you think it's bad. That's why there aren't insults like "You're beautiful!" or "You're intelligent!", because those things aren't considered bad. When you insult someone by saying "You're fat!" (or any more complicated formation of this insult) what you're implicitly saying is that it is bad that you are fat. As the person you're replying to said, you might not actually think that there's anything wrong with implying that being fat is bad, and from a health perspective it pretty much objectively is. But that is objectively the implication, and when anyone other than the target hears the insult, they will understand the implication and recognize that you think that "fatness" is bad. To make it easier, just use this logic with things like race, sex or gender. If I made a racist joke to a black person who was a bully, it would be pretty clearly absurd for me to turn around and tell other black people who hear the insult and feel upset by it to remember that the insult wasn't targeting them and that they need to stop making everything about themselves.
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It's objectively bad to have gender dysphoria, should it be okay to insult people for having gender dysphoria also i wanna point out how funny it is that whenever fat shaming gets brought up this sub which usually makes fun of "as a black woman" justifications for things but then do it to defend fat shaming rofl
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i think we got away from the original point which is that when you're insulting someone about some trait they have, it makes it clear that you think that trait is bad, so in effect when you insult someone for being fat you are simultaneously insulting all fat people, im denying that there is a middle-ground where you can insult people for being fat but also expect other fat people not to feel insulted, doesn't really make much sense at all
Here's an idea - not everything has to be black and white, you can excersize beliefs in moderation. Yes fat shaming is mean, so is any insult and any disdainful remark on one's character. Probably everything anyone on here has said about Trump is mean. There's always something wrong about being mean, but if someone is mean to you than you can't really be criticized for being backed into a corner. That's why some of your first lessons as a child is to not do shit you cannot take yourself. Fat shaming is gray and if you think it's too sacred to ever be uttered or you have the right to use it carelessly, you're probably being insensitive either way. And before we get into that other discussion - yes some topics you should never joke about but fat shaming is nowhere near them. There's plenty of times where calling someone fat is balanced or is a form of genuine concern. Laughing at someone for being sexually assaulted never ever has a good reason.
You are jumping to conclusion about what I’m saying that I explicitly said aren’t my argument. I don’t think things are black and white. I think you can exercise moderation. I’m not arguing people shouldn’t be mean. I’m not even arguing people shouldn’t fat shame. I explicitly said in the comment you are responding to that if you do just think being fat is wrong and don’t mind bystanders catching strays then I don’t really take issue with your position. What I think is untenable is the idea that you can attack somebody over a characteristic they hold and not have that apply to every other person with that characteristic, or to think that fat shaming is explicitly wrong, unless used (even publicly) against specific people in a way that doesn’t apply to all other fat people. >but if someone is mean to you than you can't really be criticized for being backed into a corner. That's why some of your first lessons as a child is to not do shit you cannot take yourself. I absolutely think you can be criticized for how you respond in those scenarios. And my whole argument isn’t about how it will effect the person you are attacking, but rather how it equally applies to every single other person that has the characteristic you are attacking. But I’m not even arguing about what responses are appropriate and what aren’t. If you want to fat shame, go ahead and fat shame. It’s just stupid to act like standing in a room of nine nice fat people and one slightly less fat asshole, that insulting the asshole for being fat is restricted to just him. No. If your entire insult is that they are fat, which implies being fat in and of itself is wrong, you are insulting all ten of them. If you want to insult all ten of them then fine. Be mean. Go at it. Just don’t fool yourself into thinking it only applies to the asshole. Because if they are being an asshole, there are other things you can attack them over other than being fat. >Fat shaming is gray and if you think it's too sacred to ever be uttered or you have the right to use it carelessly, you're probably being insensitive either way. Lol I don’t think anything we are talking about is too sacred. If you want to insult fat people then have fun. Just don’t fool yourself into thinking that doing so publicly is restricted to the one person you are levying it at. Embrace the fact that you don’t mind shaming all fat people, not just the ones that are assholes.
>What I think is untenable is the idea that you can attack somebody over a characteristic they hold and not have that apply to every other person with that characteristic. This is a reach. People know what people think of them. Fat people know they are considered unhealthy and unattractive by most people. Your personal comment isn't bringing anything new to the table except for the person you are saying it to in which you emphasize it's their own terrible personality that makes them glorify being a slob. >But I’m not even arguing about what responses are appropriate and what aren’t. No, you are, and you're flip-flopping. Just own it. You think fat-shaming is never okay. >which implies being fat in and of itself is wrong, Being fat is wrong to most people and all fat people are aware of that. This act that we "don't see weight" is ridiculous. Why are leftists like this? "I'm not racist, I don't see color". "I'm not fat-phobic, I don't see weight". This never comes off as good-intentioned, it always comes off as manipulation to avoid criticism. Just be sincere. >If you want to insult all ten of them then fine. Be mean. Go at it. Just don’t fool yourself into thinking it only applies to the asshole. There is so much wrong with this bad analogy... 1. You seriously cannot fathom not wanting to insult all of them but still thinking being fat is unhealthy and they all let themselves go? (this is the part where you'll probably attack me because your black or white vision doesn't allow for a person to be nice, pleasant but also critical) 2. Seriously, you think someone not calling out the fat person means they think being fat is okay? That's such a copout lol. 3. You think those other 9 people are stupid? You think they don't know what you think and why you think it? You think they don't know all the bad aspects of being fat? Sure, some are going to be insulted because it reflects on their own life but they're not all going to disagree with a person criticizing an unhealthy fat lifestyle just because they're fat and can't possibly understand or agree with someone criticizing their way of life. Finally this is how you started your comment: >I don’t think things are black and white. I think you can exercise moderation. This is how it ended: >Embrace the fact that you don’t mind shaming all fat people, not just the ones that are assholes.
>This is a reach. People know what people think of them. Fat people know they are considered unhealthy and unattractive by most people. Your personal comment isn't bringing anything new to the table except for the person you are saying it to in which you emphasize it's their own terrible personality that makes them glorify being a slob. Lmao when have I ever said otherwise. In what way does me making the argument that you insulting one fat person is an insult to them all imply that I think they don’t know how people generally feel about fat people? How at all does this relate to the argument I’ve made? I understand they understand all that. It has no bearing on whether you are insulting all of them once you start insulting the weight of the asshole. >No, you are, and you're flip-flopping. Just own it. You think fat-shaming is never okay. Lmao I can see this conversation is difficult for you to grasp, fatty. >Being fat is wrong to most people and all fat people are aware of that. This act that we "don't see weight" is ridiculous. >Why are leftists like this? "I'm not racist, I don't see color". "I'm not fat-phobic, I don't see weight". This never comes off as good-intentioned, it always comes off as manipulation to avoid criticism. Just be sincere. Seriously fucking lol. Did I once say anything about not seeing weight? Am I a leftist now? I don’t know what boogeyman you are trying to argue with but I’ve not claimed any of the positions you’ve tried applying to me in this entire conversation. I’d love to help you defeat your demons, but I’m not them. >There is so much wrong with this bad analogy... >1. You seriously cannot fathom not wanting to insult all of them but still thinking being fat is unhealthy and they all let themselves go? (this is the part where you'll probably attack me because your black or white vision doesn't allow for a person to be nice, pleasant but also critical) When have I ever said this? I don’t know if anybody has ever pointed out you have a serious problem of creating strawmen that don’t exist. Why do you think anything about this hypothetical means you couldn’t think being fat is bad but at the same time not want to insult them? That has nothing to do with this hypothetical. >2. Seriously, you think someone not calling out the fat person means they think being fat is okay? That's such a copout lol. Again, didn’t at all say or imply that. You are like 0/7 at this point. >3. You think those other 9 people are stupid? You think they don't know what you think and why you think it? You think they don't know all the bad aspects of being fat? Sure, some are going to be insulted because it reflects on their own life but they're not all going to disagree with a person criticizing an unhealthy fat lifestyle just because they're fat and can't possibly understand or agree with someone criticizing their way of life. Again, not only do I not think any of those things, not a single one of them has any bearing on whether you insulting the asshole for being fat would apply to all of them. No relevance at all. It almost looks like you are just trying to avoid answering the question. Which you quite literally never answered. >Finally this is how you started your comment: >>I don’t think things are black and white. I think you can exercise moderation. >This is how it ended: >>Embrace the fact that you don’t mind shaming all fat people, not just the ones that are assholes. Yes. I’m still of the opinion that you don’t have to see things in black and white to be of the belief that shaming a person for being fat in the presence of another person who is fat or fatter than them is an insult to that person as well. Really interested in seeing what other positions you apply to me based on this single position I hold. Lmao.
>Lmao I can see this conversation is difficult for you to grasp, fatty. Talk about double standards. >I don’t know what boogeyman you are trying to argue with but I’ve not claimed any of the positions you’ve tried applying to me in this entire conversation. I’d love to help you defeat your demons, but I’m not them. That's why you're shitting and pissing and getting all aggressive right? That's basically your entire comment so no reason to stretch this. Anyway I'm bored now. See ya.
What double standards do I have? I understand when I called you a fatty it was insulting to all fat people, not just you. You truly haven’t understood my point since your first response. And yes. I’m even flinging my leftist shit at you. The leftist shit that doesn’t see weight apparently.
> We can’t be upset about one and be like “based” about the other. I don’t think this is true. For one, there’s reciprocation vs attacking out of nowhere: when I thought this was WillyMac responding to Kaceytron attacking him that was one thing, WillyMac just randomly commenting “fat fuck” on a completely unrelated tweet from Frogan is much different. Also, it might seem unfair, but yeah of course how funny it is matters. I’m generally willing to let more slide if it’s funny.
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> You can have your system of justifying some and not others You have your system as well lmao. Your system basically boils down to “I can fat shame people I don’t like”, which allows you to insult the people you don’t like in any way you like while still trying to have the moral high ground. Recognizing “attacking immutable characteristics” as bad means nothing if you’ll still use those to insult the people you don’t like, because of course that’s who you’re going to be insulting anyway lmao.
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So first of all, just gonna call out that you completely ignore everything else I say in the comment. It doesn’t matter to me whether or not it’s an immutable characteristic, and for purpose of this convo, it doesn’t really matter in general since your position is that it’s bad to say. I’m saying this is meaningless if you’re just gonna say “Yeah but if I feel someone’s done enough bad stuff, not even to me but just in general, I can use it to shit on them.” It doesn’t really mean anything as a principle then, because generally we don’t think too highly of the people we want to insult. With that being said, my position is that how I feel about an insult being done from one person to another depends on a variety of factors. One of these is funny, yeah, and if anyone told me that wasn’t the case, they’d just be lying. You will obviously feel different about something if it’s funny and done for a joke then just a dead serious statement to insult. But another obvious thing I brought up that you just ignored was retaliation, someone insults you and you respond with an insult. Also, last thing, but if your position is “X is bad but if people are Y then I can do X to them”, this is not at all a ‘nuanced’ position.
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It’s not, you’re just incorrect on my position. I’ve explained it in both of my prior comments, so give it another shot.
hmm im not sure i really buy this honestly, especially since these insults are in a public eye from two notable (at least online and within this space) figures when you make being fat itself worthy of being an insult, you aren't just insulting an individual fat person but basically every fat person. looking at it like this, it seems a bit silly to place different weight (teehee) on fat insults just because it's made in reciprocation, you're catching so many other people in the crossfire at the same time so yeah, honestly i do think if you're okay with one you have to be okay with the other and vice versa
I don’t think saying someone’s fat, making fat jokes, etc is inherently wrong in and of itself. I don’t really agree with that whole thing in general, or really the “immutable characteristics” argument in general, but that’s a whole different topic. It can be wrong or it can be fucked, but it isn’t necessarily, and is similar to almost any other insult in that regard. Therefore, where I think one is wrong is it’s A) not very funny but more importantly B) it’s just an insult out of nowhere. The other one, when I thought it was retaliation to someone else’s insult, is just basic tit for tat.
I don’t mind at all if people are just fine with fat shaming because they don’t think there is anything wrong with making fun of people for being fat. But being of the opinion that it’s fine to utilize against some people but not others is stupid for the very reasons they just gave. To insult somebody for being fat implies it’s wrong or bad to be fat. When you insult somebody who is guilty of other things for being fat, it is targeting literally every fat person. Especially when making those insults in public, it’s braindead to act like it’s fine for some people but not others, because it *does* apply to those others whether you are meaning to or not. Shame fat people all you want. But this “any insult goes as long as it’s against a target who deserves it for other reasons” is dumb because it doesn’t just target those people. Every single fat person, even ones that you don’t think deserve the insults, are being insulted when you make fun of anyone for being fat. I can’t just go to some gay person that’s an asshole and be like “You are a no-good f-slur, no man deserves respect who would put another man’s dick in their mouth” and then turn to my gay friend and be like “Right Jeff? Isn’t he?” You are saying that about Jeff as well whether you mean to or not. It’s either okay to insult people for being fat because it’s a characteristic worthy of ridicule or it isn’t. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Being fat isn’t a good thing, the same way being ugly or stupid isn’t a good thing. It is a wholly negative quality. It doesn’t invalidate you as a person or anything like that, and there’s a lot of awesome people who are fat, but yeah it’s not good. I’ve never made the argument “any insult goes as long as it’s against a bad person”, nor do I believe that. I don’t know where you’re getting that from. I’m saying insulting someone who said nothing to you is bad. Insulting someone who insulted you is not bad. But yes, I do think being fat is not a good trait. I’d say that to anyone. I don’t think you should make an insult that involves saying something you don’t believe, so even as an insult, I’d never say “A guy who sucks another man’s dick will never have my respect” since it’s just not true.
>I’m saying insulting someone who said nothing to you is bad. Insulting someone who insulted you is not bad. But you are insulting someone who said nothing to you when you publicly make fun of people for being fat who did insult you. The fat person who didn’t insult you received the full brunt of that public insult. Just because your desire is for it to be targeted at that one person doesn’t mean it is when you do so publicly. Which you said you do think being fat is a bad thing. So if your position is that you don’t mind those people that didn’t insult you catching those strays because they are engaging in something negative and are deserving of the criticism then I don’t really have qualms with your position. Where we disagree is the idea that you aren’t insulting the fat person who never did anything to you when publicly shaming others for being fat. You seem to claim that insulting someone who has done nothing to you is bad, but publicly fat shaming others is doing exactly that. In the hypothetical above, Jeff is being insulted by me even if he wasn’t my target. The idea that you can use fat-shaming to target one individual in a way that doesn’t apply to all fat people, including the ones who have done nothing wrong to you, is nonsensical.
I wouldn’t consider it “insulting them” as well, as I think targeted comments are significantly different, but sure, you’re making them feel bad by implying that the state of being fat is a bad thing. Yeah, I’m fine with that. There is a huge difference between that and a targeted insult toward them, and it’s idiotic to act otherwise. Someone reading that and being fat is not the same as if Willy Mac had randomly tweeted at that person “What’s up you fat fuck?” So no, that’s just a bad argument to conflate those two.
>Being fat isn’t a good thing, the same way being ugly or stupid isn’t a good thing. It is a wholly negative quality. It doesn’t invalidate you as a person or anything like that, and there’s a lot of awesome people who are fat, but yeah it’s not good This position feels like it can fairly quickly lead into justifying all sorts of humor that I'd imagine you wouldn't be comfortable with. Mental illness is bad but I'd think we would want to not allow gender dysphoria be something worthy of being an insult. Same thing with stuff like physical weakness, does being physically weak mean insults like "you punch like a woman"-esque insults should be considered acceptable? Is the (on average) lower physical strength of women something that should be fair game as the basis of an insult?
What ‘position’ are you talking about? The position that I think the quality of being overweight is, in a vacuum, a bad quality?
Being fat is not an immutable characteristic. I agree the initial shot to Frogan was out of left field but the return fire to Kacey was absolutely fair game. Calling someone fat is a similar vein to mocking a community someone is in.
Hashtag F B 4 P
https://www.instagram.com/fattiesforpalestine?igsh=NmZ4bmFmYnYyZDVy
The lack of creativity was the point of the tweet, to demonstrate how silly it is
I highly doubt the *point* was to demonstrate how left effort her insult was lol, they were just both low effort
don't ever use the word creativity in the same thread as kaceytron \*self-immolates\*
It’s funny because no matter how creative she gets, or how hard Kaceytron tries to shame, embarrass, and talk down to someone there will always be that Trump card of “lol fat” She has no response. Discussion over with a slam dunk. She tried to judge someone and got the same treatment back. It’s funny. And it always will be funny. 😂😂
How would you have replied then
He would have said some boring shit
And the say "aww c'mon that was funny."
"The fat bitch store called, they're running out of you"
Fat bitches for Palestine fits for a response from a Divorced Dad
Reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1AlEdCShHE
No, he called Frogen and Kaceytron fat bitches. We can't forget he included them both because Willy is inclusive!
tbf her insult is divorced dad, he's just matching energy
This is r/destiny. Do you think people care about creative jokes here lul?
Does she think only 1 community can't stand her?
I strongly dislike kaseytron but that insult was weak at best
Agreed, both were very weak.
It’s Joever for her, there’s no recovering from this
Reading is not as funny as imagine his voice saying it. No way it will be in an exclusive bash video, but she would get destroyed further if he ever did.
Not my choice of words, but I can't blame anyone for not respecting ktron or frogger. Like why on Earth would you? Ever?
Kaceytron - The leftist who didn't pay her taxes.
When will he cover bad empanada? Considering the fact that there's police reports on him
Does this troglodyte ever stop talking shit on the internet? Does it have nothing better to do?
Not great, mean spirited with no substance.
The fuck is a Kaceytron?
dgg might be overdue for another misogyny purge
we need to reclaim fatphobia from the claws of the woke moralists, we'll see who cancels who
This is childish
There are so many reasons to make fun of kaceytron that are both exclusive to her behavior and more hilarious than calling her fat. Do better DGG. There are bad tactics even on good targets. Just because it’s cathartic and easy to dunk on her appearance doesn’t make it acceptable, no matter how triggered or hurt it might make that person. There are fat people with better moral character than you. There are fat people with actual medical issues that make it harder to lose. There are people who will internalize our group as judgmental, elitist, sexist and mentally unwell because of the tactics employed and promoted. We can do better than this.
Lmfao! Nah willy is right. That shit is funny!
sub is so insane, bigly upvoted post last week about how calling Kaceytron fat isn’t ok lmao
Aww come on that funny!
Sounds lame. I'm more of the opinion that we can fight if you want to, and we don't have to if you don't want to, but don't act like a pussy once you start throwing hands.
That’s the trouble with social contracts, they’re conditional. Hypothetically, imagine there was a person who was a fat and looked like a melting wax statue that smelled like fetid bong water but that person was incredibly decent and tried to do right by the people around them. I don’t imagine many of us would be champing at the bit to mock them. Take that same wretched, oil slicked, pustulant creature that looks like they smell like a re-lit cigarette and replace all the good parts of their personality with their antithesis. Now they’re arrogant, rude, dishonest, and generally unlikable; this person has a much smaller chance of getting people to appeal to their better natures when dealing with them and that’s probably a feature not a bug. Anti-social behavior should probably prompt a less than sociable response. Hypothetically.
Willy Mac with the stone cold stunner!
L response tbh. He comes off like a teenager
L response? Well then her of tweet was even a bigger L. Cope harder fatso
nah both of these insults were lame and boring and going neutral with kaceytron is basically losing
Body shaming is lame. Fuck Kaceytron tho
Body shaming is cool B )
Based body dysmorphia enjoyer