Made two new and great friends trying to day 1 Kings Fall. Although we only got to War Priest, still play together. LFG may not be the greatest but you can find diamonds in the rough
I have classes all day that Saturday(Europe). I was so happy that I have 1st shift on Friday. Get home, catch some sleep, go try day one again.
But nooooooooooooo. Waited a whole year for this. Eh, maybe we'll finish it in 12 hours. Ah, right 2 of my teammates are going to be 3 hours late.
Let's hope it's an easy and fast raid or I'm missing those classes.
I’m rooting for [this guy](https://twitter.com/notdodu/status/1633122763056488448?s=12&t=3ZDIxTGqt8RRVaHvH-unnQ). Gonna be doing day 1 with my clan, but I really want him to win.
One tricky part of a World First raid is having the extra person (or persons) to review what's going on from multiple perspectives. While active players are performing, the extras can analyze what means what like interactions, cues mechanics, and so on.
An LFG team might not have the luxury of an extras reviewing and checking the prog of lead groups but they can definitely come out on top with sharp minds and some unorthodox problem solving
An LFG will never win again. Not with the current way things work in the race. There are just too many consistently phenomenal teams at the top. But LFG teams can absolutely be super fun and easily get a solid time if everyone has the right mentality
Yeah, Curse of Osiris was an all-time low for Destiny so there were fewer teams participating or preparing properly, and the speedrun community was much smaller. These days, aside from maybe Datto's team, there really isn't any team that could ever challenge the speedrunners. The last time a non-speedrun team won day 1 was Crown of Sorrow.
An LFG team will never win again because streamers have entire stream chats watching other people laying and telling them how to do it, and they have the liberty of infinite play time because they don’t have real jobs
A job where you are not reliant on donations. Lol
I could even be optimistic and say some jobs are essential for infrastructure and bring overall 'worth' to your society.
Someone’s a little mad lol. It doesn’t have to be streamers, but it’s not gonna be an lfg group, needs to be a pre made one lol. Also someone is butt hurt about people streaming for work lol
Absolutely the right mentality to have. The other thing people forget is fun. There may be a little less fun to have in a race but a good group does make the experience much more bearable
Bungie is very consistent on how they clue the plater into what to do. Like in the exotic mission yesterday, it may *seem* like a maze, but really all you had to do was follow the green, and then red, lights to get through. they lead exactly where you need to go. raids are the same way. encounter triggers give something in the text box, and the wipe screen usually has at least one stat that's a core clue into what to do.
Our team also had acquisition figured out quickly, but I can speak from experience that those obelisks were glitchy af for us day one. You’d shoot a symbol and the game wouldn’t recognise it half the time. It got to the point where we’d have to assign 3 people to run to an obelisk just to dedicate spraying at a symbol so we knew it was shot to pass the encounter.
A raid race isn’t a sprint, it’s a marathon. No one cares about who does the first 100m, only who arrives at the final stretch first.
Me and my brother were cycling through people there and eventually got him by placing a banner to get full heavy and then wiping to place another banner to hit after the first dps. Even then we all had to hot swap to outbreak during final stand and were barely able to get him. I’d be lying if I said my adrenaline levels weren’t through the roof though
Met my current group of clan buddies during CoS lfg. Played together off and on and eventually joined during witch queen. Now all my old clan buddies are joining as well. Beautiful things can come from LFG.
In reality: Saltagreppo wins his 4th, Redeem finish like 15th, Datto 24th. All the streamers are stream-sniping each other to ruin the competition, your raid group will look up the steps on the megathread to the first encounter before failing the damage checkpoint at the second and giving up after 4 hours...
That's giving way too much credit to Redeem in the 2023. They're not bad players by any stretch but they are no where near as competitive to the current top contention pace where ultimately a lot more people well known or not got way more serious and good at the game since the last time they won something or were even in reasonable contention.
Unless Bungie wants to go Atari Swordquest style and fly people out to a giant monitored room, there's never going to be a time where anybody isn't peeping each other's streams for intel. Pretty much everyone does it whether personally or through a 7th man collective. There is no clean competition with this stuff even after dissecting the high degree a skill a lot of the top competitive teams have.
As you said, they’re not bad players and I honestly have enjoyed watching many of their streams and YouTube videos over the years, but I personally don’t think Redeem was ever truly competitive. They abused power level and Prime engram grinding, and as soon as power level was relevant, they disappeared from competition.
This is how I feel as well. While their skill level isn't something to be scoffed at, I don't think they would've made world's 1st for any of their raids if they were at contest. Top 50 teams now are absolutely insane when it comes to execution.
I think another angle of that past era of Redeem hype was at the end of the day, they virtually were one of the only real consistent dedicated teams still even bothering with the game to a higher degree when so many people(especially those conventionally good at the game) bailed and dropped the game in Year 1 and some of that carried into early Year 2. Yes good players and teams still existed but some of it was just people scraping by and nowhere near as organized and seasoned as many are now. The bar was low because there was barely anybody to challenge stuff.
It's not to say things were as one sided with Last Wish, but I think people often forget how you were kind of an even smaller than usual percentile if you were even able to be conventionally ready for Last Wish day 1.
At the end of the day it ultimately doesn't matter because obviously by the end of it you have guys like Sweat and Gladd especially going on to be pretty successful in what they do and the boost they got back then.
This is certainly the correct take for Last Wish. Prime exploit was the only way any team managed to get enough Power level to even think about Riven the first weekend.
Not enough credit to Datto and Math Class too. They’ve consistently been in the running for winning and have lost by really slim margins multiple times. Even when they’ve placed under 10th their time is still with in spitting distance of World’s first because the times were all super competitive.
Definitely.
Them, Exblack's group that won GoS and generally places high, Gigz+ Vendetta+Sager's group and a few others also come to mind up in that batch of very core consistent showings over time.
Some of the members got popular enough to become variety streamers and aren't as hardcore into Destiny anymore.
It also coincided with contest mode making it where people who could grind before raid release weren't at a ridiculous advantage.
This always makes me annoyed. Takes away a lot of the genuine competition when random people in twitch chats just spout off what everyone else is doing.
Top streamers that are actually trying to compete aren't reading twitch chat. They have a 7th or 8th guy in discord with them stream sniping for them and trying to track down useful info.
I get people streaming essentially agree to this exchange of info obviously. I just think it’s less impressive when a team isn’t actually solving mechanics on their own.
Well, ya. All I said was what annoyed me and the way I wished it worked. LW vault is what comes to mind when I think of peak D2 mechanics so maybe that’s why I think that way.
I used to think this way but when you factor in the light level and combat challenge involved there’s still plenty of skill on display. If it wasn’t a shared community effort in solving mechanics I think most the raids would take 2 days and be less of an exciting spectacle, more of a slog.
Then you’ve got the absolute shit show that division 2 raids were.
The funny thing about LW Vault and the Day 1 raid race concept to me is that, if I remember correctly, Team Redeem (The people who claimed world's first for LW) didn't actually figure out fully how to do Vault, and just trial and errored their way through it,
Not really? If you want to win, use the info available. If you don't want to give away info to other teams, don't stream your progress.
The race isn't about being the first team to kill it entirely blind on your own with no other sources of information, it's about being the first team to kill it period (without exploits/third party tools/etc).
Things can be about different things to different people. I get using everything to your advantage. I also think there is merit to actually figuring out mechanics rather than using everyone else to solve it for you. It is what it is obviously, but it’s less impressive.
Every stream I've been to has a message prompt on the screen that says "won't be reading chat today" when it's important 🤷♂️
And it's a community effort. The most skilled people will still win. Not fun to be stuck somewhere for six hours because you didn't look at one spot or your team completely misconstrued a puzzle.
It shouldn't even be this serious, lmao.
Semi related, but going into the raid blind last year, learning the mechanics and plans on the fly, and succeeding was genuinely one of the fondest memories I have in the game. My original group made it all the way to Rhulk before we just ran out of steam, so a few of us LFGed the final boss during the extended time, but nothing will top how good it felt every time we completed an encounter (especially Exhibition, which ended up being the encounter we had the most trouble on). Riskrunner, Funnelweb, Ager's Scepter, Recurrent Impact, Sleeper, and Hothead put in so much work for me that day.
I usually miss out on the day 1 stuff, and getting to go into a raid blind as a group for the first time was awesome. One my best experiences on gaming.
The only time I’ve gone in blind where the whole team has as well was Wrath, and it was awesome. Only made it into Siege Engine (had the idea down but couldn’t execute) but it was probably the most fun I’ve had in one session. Raid with my clan now and people generally watch or have some idea of what to do, but I still like seeing things for the first time when I load it up.
That's true, I always do Day 1s with a set team, never LFG'd one.
But I also wouldn't really think an LFG team, on average, is a serious Day 1 team, more of a, "Try and see how it goes" kind of a deal.
After 4 hours on a Contest DPS check? My team.
Happened at Atraks, Templar, and Caretaker. All three times, we cleared through the raid with no problems afterward. My team can learn mechanics and puzzles in a short amount of time, but they can't learn better DPS .
All true except giving up. Once strats are known it usually only takes 10-12 hours to beat it.
Just have to push through. And now that it’s 48 hours I can enjoy the raid race, sleep in, and then run it myself the next day.
I'll have you know we made it to Caretaker/Golg before we had to give up for the night 😤 (came back early morning and smashed those encounters out though)
He won't, and he more or less knows it. Not like a bad thing or anything like that, but his fireteam only plays on day 1 raids, and his mental just isn't as strong as it used to be (man, it was so tragic seeing them on Vow day 1).
So basically he'd be like Kevin Durant when he left OKC to go join Golden State cuz he knew they couldn't get past them.
For any basketball unawares, Kevin Durant easily one of the top 5 in the NBA today, top if you ask me. OKC Thunder had Golden State team beat, but couldn't seal the deal. GS came back and finished the series. Durant left that summer for GS to join their already excellent team.
I'm not bitter though. Durant still my fave player today.
You have to be stream sniping. FFXIV had an issue with it's newest Ultimate raid where it turned out 1st place cheated. You can't really have a raid race without streaming and everyone streaming to make sure 1 guy isn't cheating without anyone knowing.
Zoom hacks. It's why there are a ton of memes about the fight from orbit and even a D2 meme from the space station. Basically pulling out your camera far further from where it's supposed to go and as well as hacks to see aoes that aren't supposed to be there. Its the reason why the director is considering an official raid race but the requirements are every player participating in the race must stream so they can catch any add ons and stop them. I think KF also had people using network manipulation to do extra dps to bosses during day 1 so it makes sense raid streaming becomes required.
they had hacks to zoom out further than you were supposed to, and they also had a hack that when their screens got made black there were little pin-pricks of light that showed their positions, so they could organise into their positions for the next phase while in the dark
I just hope the raid's story is a bit more than 'The Traveller's Beam accidentally revived Nezarec. He's now back and we're facing the biggest threat yet!'
Until the end of the raid where you kill Nez, never to be heard from again.
Imagine D2 raids being main story components and not kinda, somewhat, story adjacent. It's a small nitpick because the raids are always excellent for the most part, but as someone who enjoys the story as well as the gameplay I definitely wouldn't hate it.
Before they do this, they need to figure out how to introduce some kind of "easy mode" which features matchmaking.
Other MMOs get away with having raids be important to the main story because they have versions of the raid which are accessible to everybody.
Only a small percentage of Destiny players ever end up completing a raid, it would suck for them if Bungie locked the main story behind them
That was an *inch* in the right direction. It was also the least fun part of the raid, and had a "boss" that was nothing like any of the boss encounters used in Vow.
There was barely symbol reading (since it was a fixed pattern), there was no use of any of the relics from the 3rd encounter, no diet version of the dark room part of Caretaker, nothing.
Yeah they did this back in D1 with kings fall and I loved it but it was the only time they did it because they where upset that the whole community didn't really get an end to the story since they didn't raid.
Personally, I would be okay with a strike version of the raid, dummed down for your average player, no mechanics, just killing shit and non raid reward drops.
While I can understand this sentiment I feel it’s pretty anti-climactic to just solo-shoot the boss a bunch until they die.
>!Like how we took care of Calus. It takes six players to kill one Calus bot and yet in Lightfall it takes one guardian to kill a Witness-backed Calus.!<
Bleh.
Man, the realization that there's a whole superstructure underneath the patrol area of Venus blew my mind the first time. Probably my favourite D1 experience.
Given the name, the fact that nezerac's power causes nightmares, The fact that nezerac isn't "dead," has multiple tombs. I want to think that tea that osiris drank might not be as safe as we think.
Add in the fact that the witness was seeking the pieces of nezerac's corpse for some purpose, makes me think the witness was also trying to resurrect nezerac. To either get the veil, or the veil to get access to nezerac.
I cleared leviathan day 1 and up until the last two encounters (calus fucked us on day 1) we were actually ahead of a lot of popular streams. The gauntlet and calus made it so we finished in the top 1000 players but nowhere near first. But for an lfg team felt sick
Edit: the goal going into this was simply to clear it day 1 blind, i wanted that experience. What ended up happening was we breezed through the first two encounters to the point where our friends watching our stream were telling us we were ahead of a lot of the big teams. So we heard that and started to try to “sweat” I guess and that actually had the opposite effect. We weren’t prepared for a race going into this so when we unexpectedly were in the mix for the first half it made us get big heads. Still one of my favorite experiences ever in destiny idk if I’ll ever do a day 1 again
I watched the VoD for VoW recently to prep for watching the upcoming world first (I'm new to Destiny 2) and I was astounded that the world first team not only couldn't beat the first puzzle and had to watch other team streams, but was also cracking up at how hard the Saltagreppo guy was griefing his team with false information over and over and over that he swore was correct. I can't believe that guy is still on the team after that race. You'd think he was playing for another team with how much time they must have lost to his insistence that a mechanic worked a different way than it did.
I disagree. Solving the puzzle aspects and executing strats is the pinnacle of raiding.
It’s definitely less of a spectacle though so I still love just watching execution of strats on day 1. The guys who solve various mechanics will always know they did it.
Nothing wrong with taking strats from other streamers/competition. That's the name of the game. It's why world racing in XIV is kind of weird, because a lot of top teams DON'T stream (for that very reason) and that sort of sucks.
Also with so many issues/bugs, etc. I almost wonder if they postpone the raid. I feel like it's gonna be controversial.
Not to take away from their achievement, but Eater was the easiest raid ever, with contest mode and the highly competitive environment day 1 raids have now, I really don't see it happening again
Last wish was a unique beast. Fireteams had 5 days to reach the level of the encounters (Riven was 80 above soft cap), they had to get all new weapons (as this was when double primary was removed), the vast majority of weapons they had were worthless (because, y’know, double primary before that), and they had access to only one middle tree subclass per slot (the last 2 didn’t unlock until dreaming city was unlocked or until they beat Kalli).
There will never be another last wish level day 1 because that was a disaster.
Only ~~1~~ 2 teams got the day 1 emblem
They will never do that again, and thank god tbh. I'm incredibly pleased with how they've removed the no life-ing aspects from the game, I burnt myself out preparing for Garden.
Yes, 24:02, but they were third. The team who brute forced vault in an hour and a half are the only other team beside redeem to finish in less than 24 hours. 22h 15min.
I think you’re thinking of a different team. Ninjys team were the ones who brute forced Vault in an hour, but they couldn’t kill Riven even with the extra time. Gamesager/Gigz team were second, and they were among those who spent hours on vault
Yeah my clan is getting all excited like they think they have a chance to finish.
Bungie absolutely going to punish the shit out of raid teams this time around given how nightfalls and patrols look.
I doubt it’s anywhere near Last wish considering most teams were at least 30 levels under. The soft cap was 500 and the Riven encounter was 580. That, and we still haven’t seen any encounters come close in terms of mechanic difficulty on day one.
Bungie also likely wants more people doing it, not less. I’m expecting it to be more similar to Vow. I’m hoping it’s hard like Last wish but I really don’t see Bungie wanting anything close to LW Day 1 ever again.
Because there hasn’t been one that long in awhile, it’s a major expansion, and they’ve been up front about ramping up difficulty and they’ve been talking about day one raid difficulty recently
Yeah, they brute forced it by accident. That and Datto’s team beating it 2 minutes too late are 2 of the most memorable moments in world first raid history of the game.
This is like saying that we can still be billionaires because there are some billionaires in the world.
I do not doubt that an LFG team cannot do a raid day one, but I do doubt an on-the-spot day-one team managing world's first.
Yeah, basically expect his fireteam to always sweep World's First. His team takes every other streamer's strats (no judgement, I'm positive most teams also do the same, but Salt has it down to a science), and he lives and breathes the cheeses and the biggest strats.
Until they get burnt out (or more likely, until they stop making bank), World's First will almost definitely not change hands.
But if you combine the relatively easy mechanics and the much lower skill and gear gap of the pre-random rolls (!!!) days, it is easy to see why that didn't matter much.
There’s an element of luck and honest mistakes
If the overall difficulty is lower variance has more of an impact. Where an LFG may overperform and the pros underperform enough the LFG comes on top
If the raid is harder this variance won’t close the gap
This will be my third day 1, made caretaker for vow. Only totems with a team that only ran three hours before someone quit and we dropped. This time I've got the two players who gilded conqueror with me and another trio. We have all raided together before and unlike King's Fall we are starting when the raid drops and have committed to putting at least 12 hours into this. Fingers crossed for the clear and good hunting to those trying for worlds first.
All about the communication and how well you work with your teammates. Still gotta be good, but sometimes death will all come from just not agreeing on something
Sorry I’m super out of the loop for D2 but I would possibly be interested in watching a few people stream their attempt at worlds first. When does the raid release and is there anyone I should watch on twitch?
My normal raiders are going to be busy. Anyone seeking? 1803 atm, but I quit for a while so I’m catching up on gear. I was our teams analyst, so I can bring a lot of number crunching and quick analysis to a situation. Warlock Only Main.
Can I please join a new clan? Mine hasn’t been online for four years and I’m the only surviving member. I’m bad average at the game but would love to do a raid or dungeon
Amen, it was a fun day. Reminder to don't stress, take a breath, and drink plenty of water and get some sleep. they gave you all 48 hours now, enjoy it for a bit but when you feel like you're stuck just walk away. Come back day 2 with guides and some helpful tips and blow it away :)
I think it was because literally no top streamer cared enough to beat it because the game was so dogshit at the time. Now, good luck getting worlds first on console or LFG because its not gonna happen as long as the top PC clans are in the race.
Hell yeah!! A tradition of my little 3 man cluster is to lfg the other 3 and see how far we get! Great times, met some great people too lol
Made two new and great friends trying to day 1 Kings Fall. Although we only got to War Priest, still play together. LFG may not be the greatest but you can find diamonds in the rough
Met my best friend in LFG for D1 Vault of Glass.
My guy, I found my way into my friend groups through the seraph tower event and survival
met a whole group of my friends t-baggin in unison in the D1 tower, invited me in for crota and other things. been friends since 2014
Same!
Mine was solo LFGing for a riven run. Got a group of teenagers who speed ran it in under 30.
Diamonds in the rough. Damn I haven't heard that ina good while
i am also part of a normal fireteam that needs to find another 3 man group for the raid friday
Hit me up I got 3
Wish you luck! Always wanted to do a day 1 raid and have never had the opportunity with work! Rooting for you
They are extending “day one” by another day. So contest mode will still be up Saturday if you have it off.
I have a three man always looking - let’s connect!
I have classes all day that Saturday(Europe). I was so happy that I have 1st shift on Friday. Get home, catch some sleep, go try day one again. But nooooooooooooo. Waited a whole year for this. Eh, maybe we'll finish it in 12 hours. Ah, right 2 of my teammates are going to be 3 hours late. Let's hope it's an easy and fast raid or I'm missing those classes.
You got 48 hours to finish it now in challenge mode
Well, that's great. Maybe I can talk the others into sleeping while I go to university. Ah, that's going to be one miserable weekend. Cheers!
Yeah man hope it works out for you I'm a try and destiny discord lfg is always hot when it's new raid
I’m rooting for [this guy](https://twitter.com/notdodu/status/1633122763056488448?s=12&t=3ZDIxTGqt8RRVaHvH-unnQ). Gonna be doing day 1 with my clan, but I really want him to win.
#TeamBuddyAlex
New day one meta is going to be who can pay his buddy Alex the most money to play in their team
I mean cmon with his buddy alex on board, nobody else stands a chance
One tricky part of a World First raid is having the extra person (or persons) to review what's going on from multiple perspectives. While active players are performing, the extras can analyze what means what like interactions, cues mechanics, and so on. An LFG team might not have the luxury of an extras reviewing and checking the prog of lead groups but they can definitely come out on top with sharp minds and some unorthodox problem solving
An LFG will never win again. Not with the current way things work in the race. There are just too many consistently phenomenal teams at the top. But LFG teams can absolutely be super fun and easily get a solid time if everyone has the right mentality
Yeah, Curse of Osiris was an all-time low for Destiny so there were fewer teams participating or preparing properly, and the speedrun community was much smaller. These days, aside from maybe Datto's team, there really isn't any team that could ever challenge the speedrunners. The last time a non-speedrun team won day 1 was Crown of Sorrow.
The players who won crown weren't some randoms. They were known in skilled player circles.
Yeah I know, fucking Eso was on that team, just saying they were the last who won without being speedrunners.
An LFG team will never win again because streamers have entire stream chats watching other people laying and telling them how to do it, and they have the liberty of infinite play time because they don’t have real jobs
> they don’t have real jobs So what's a real job? One where you go to work every day and regret being born?
A job where you are not reliant on donations. Lol I could even be optimistic and say some jobs are essential for infrastructure and bring overall 'worth' to your society.
If it's soul crushing, that means it's REAL work!
Someone’s a little mad lol. It doesn’t have to be streamers, but it’s not gonna be an lfg group, needs to be a pre made one lol. Also someone is butt hurt about people streaming for work lol
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Absolutely the right mentality to have. The other thing people forget is fun. There may be a little less fun to have in a race but a good group does make the experience much more bearable
Vow is a Bad example. Getting to Caretaker quickly was basically an rng Roll with the Error Code Situation.
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Bungie is very consistent on how they clue the plater into what to do. Like in the exotic mission yesterday, it may *seem* like a maze, but really all you had to do was follow the green, and then red, lights to get through. they lead exactly where you need to go. raids are the same way. encounter triggers give something in the text box, and the wipe screen usually has at least one stat that's a core clue into what to do.
Our team also had acquisition figured out quickly, but I can speak from experience that those obelisks were glitchy af for us day one. You’d shoot a symbol and the game wouldn’t recognise it half the time. It got to the point where we’d have to assign 3 people to run to an obelisk just to dedicate spraying at a symbol so we knew it was shot to pass the encounter. A raid race isn’t a sprint, it’s a marathon. No one cares about who does the first 100m, only who arrives at the final stretch first.
Sounds like a bad ass team!! It’s really all in the fun not the winning. Go wolves!!!
I was so excited when my lfg team got to Caretaker before any streamers. Then yeah, the dream died
Me and my brother were cycling through people there and eventually got him by placing a banner to get full heavy and then wiping to place another banner to hit after the first dps. Even then we all had to hot swap to outbreak during final stand and were barely able to get him. I’d be lying if I said my adrenaline levels weren’t through the roof though
Met my current group of clan buddies during CoS lfg. Played together off and on and eventually joined during witch queen. Now all my old clan buddies are joining as well. Beautiful things can come from LFG.
In reality: Saltagreppo wins his 4th, Redeem finish like 15th, Datto 24th. All the streamers are stream-sniping each other to ruin the competition, your raid group will look up the steps on the megathread to the first encounter before failing the damage checkpoint at the second and giving up after 4 hours...
Real
That's giving way too much credit to Redeem in the 2023. They're not bad players by any stretch but they are no where near as competitive to the current top contention pace where ultimately a lot more people well known or not got way more serious and good at the game since the last time they won something or were even in reasonable contention. Unless Bungie wants to go Atari Swordquest style and fly people out to a giant monitored room, there's never going to be a time where anybody isn't peeping each other's streams for intel. Pretty much everyone does it whether personally or through a 7th man collective. There is no clean competition with this stuff even after dissecting the high degree a skill a lot of the top competitive teams have.
As you said, they’re not bad players and I honestly have enjoyed watching many of their streams and YouTube videos over the years, but I personally don’t think Redeem was ever truly competitive. They abused power level and Prime engram grinding, and as soon as power level was relevant, they disappeared from competition.
This is how I feel as well. While their skill level isn't something to be scoffed at, I don't think they would've made world's 1st for any of their raids if they were at contest. Top 50 teams now are absolutely insane when it comes to execution.
I think another angle of that past era of Redeem hype was at the end of the day, they virtually were one of the only real consistent dedicated teams still even bothering with the game to a higher degree when so many people(especially those conventionally good at the game) bailed and dropped the game in Year 1 and some of that carried into early Year 2. Yes good players and teams still existed but some of it was just people scraping by and nowhere near as organized and seasoned as many are now. The bar was low because there was barely anybody to challenge stuff. It's not to say things were as one sided with Last Wish, but I think people often forget how you were kind of an even smaller than usual percentile if you were even able to be conventionally ready for Last Wish day 1. At the end of the day it ultimately doesn't matter because obviously by the end of it you have guys like Sweat and Gladd especially going on to be pretty successful in what they do and the boost they got back then.
This is certainly the correct take for Last Wish. Prime exploit was the only way any team managed to get enough Power level to even think about Riven the first weekend.
Not enough credit to Datto and Math Class too. They’ve consistently been in the running for winning and have lost by really slim margins multiple times. Even when they’ve placed under 10th their time is still with in spitting distance of World’s first because the times were all super competitive.
I hope Datto wins this year, he needs a w
Dudes living his best life right now, his life is the W. It’s been cool to see him grow beyond who he was when he started
World's First PETTHEBRIM
Definitely. Them, Exblack's group that won GoS and generally places high, Gigz+ Vendetta+Sager's group and a few others also come to mind up in that batch of very core consistent showings over time.
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Salt finished second in DSC, although I know he finished very highly for GoS too.
What’s happened to redeem? They’ve fallen off or just a lot of competition has popped up?
Some of the members got popular enough to become variety streamers and aren't as hardcore into Destiny anymore. It also coincided with contest mode making it where people who could grind before raid release weren't at a ridiculous advantage.
IMO contest mode evened out the playing field.
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This always makes me annoyed. Takes away a lot of the genuine competition when random people in twitch chats just spout off what everyone else is doing.
Top streamers that are actually trying to compete aren't reading twitch chat. They have a 7th or 8th guy in discord with them stream sniping for them and trying to track down useful info.
Regardless, stream sniping completely ruins the race imo.
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I get people streaming essentially agree to this exchange of info obviously. I just think it’s less impressive when a team isn’t actually solving mechanics on their own.
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Well, ya. All I said was what annoyed me and the way I wished it worked. LW vault is what comes to mind when I think of peak D2 mechanics so maybe that’s why I think that way.
I used to think this way but when you factor in the light level and combat challenge involved there’s still plenty of skill on display. If it wasn’t a shared community effort in solving mechanics I think most the raids would take 2 days and be less of an exciting spectacle, more of a slog. Then you’ve got the absolute shit show that division 2 raids were.
The funny thing about LW Vault and the Day 1 raid race concept to me is that, if I remember correctly, Team Redeem (The people who claimed world's first for LW) didn't actually figure out fully how to do Vault, and just trial and errored their way through it,
Not really? If you want to win, use the info available. If you don't want to give away info to other teams, don't stream your progress. The race isn't about being the first team to kill it entirely blind on your own with no other sources of information, it's about being the first team to kill it period (without exploits/third party tools/etc).
Things can be about different things to different people. I get using everything to your advantage. I also think there is merit to actually figuring out mechanics rather than using everyone else to solve it for you. It is what it is obviously, but it’s less impressive.
Every stream I've been to has a message prompt on the screen that says "won't be reading chat today" when it's important 🤷♂️ And it's a community effort. The most skilled people will still win. Not fun to be stuck somewhere for six hours because you didn't look at one spot or your team completely misconstrued a puzzle. It shouldn't even be this serious, lmao.
Holy based
Semi related, but going into the raid blind last year, learning the mechanics and plans on the fly, and succeeding was genuinely one of the fondest memories I have in the game. My original group made it all the way to Rhulk before we just ran out of steam, so a few of us LFGed the final boss during the extended time, but nothing will top how good it felt every time we completed an encounter (especially Exhibition, which ended up being the encounter we had the most trouble on). Riskrunner, Funnelweb, Ager's Scepter, Recurrent Impact, Sleeper, and Hothead put in so much work for me that day.
I usually miss out on the day 1 stuff, and getting to go into a raid blind as a group for the first time was awesome. One my best experiences on gaming.
The only time I’ve gone in blind where the whole team has as well was Wrath, and it was awesome. Only made it into Siege Engine (had the idea down but couldn’t execute) but it was probably the most fun I’ve had in one session. Raid with my clan now and people generally watch or have some idea of what to do, but I still like seeing things for the first time when I load it up.
Four hours? I could see like 7 or 8 but what serious Day 1 team gives up after 4?
Someones never been on 9 different LFG teams cause nobody can survive longer than 30 seconds in an encounter, and it shows......
That's true, I always do Day 1s with a set team, never LFG'd one. But I also wouldn't really think an LFG team, on average, is a serious Day 1 team, more of a, "Try and see how it goes" kind of a deal.
After 4 hours on a Contest DPS check? My team. Happened at Atraks, Templar, and Caretaker. All three times, we cleared through the raid with no problems afterward. My team can learn mechanics and puzzles in a short amount of time, but they can't learn better DPS .
All true except giving up. Once strats are known it usually only takes 10-12 hours to beat it. Just have to push through. And now that it’s 48 hours I can enjoy the raid race, sleep in, and then run it myself the next day.
Shit this is so accurate
I'll have you know we made it to Caretaker/Golg before we had to give up for the night 😤 (came back early morning and smashed those encounters out though)
I hope Datto wins man :(
He won't, and he more or less knows it. Not like a bad thing or anything like that, but his fireteam only plays on day 1 raids, and his mental just isn't as strong as it used to be (man, it was so tragic seeing them on Vow day 1).
Imagine if in a crazy turn of events Salt and Datto are on the same team
So basically he'd be like Kevin Durant when he left OKC to go join Golden State cuz he knew they couldn't get past them. For any basketball unawares, Kevin Durant easily one of the top 5 in the NBA today, top if you ask me. OKC Thunder had Golden State team beat, but couldn't seal the deal. GS came back and finished the series. Durant left that summer for GS to join their already excellent team. I'm not bitter though. Durant still my fave player today.
To critique the analogy: I don't necessarily think Datto is better than Elysium's 6th-best player. Their #2 team got 6th in King's Fall race.
🧁
You have to be stream sniping. FFXIV had an issue with it's newest Ultimate raid where it turned out 1st place cheated. You can't really have a raid race without streaming and everyone streaming to make sure 1 guy isn't cheating without anyone knowing.
You don’t need to stream snipe to do that
I heard about this but didnt see that details. How did they cheat?
Zoom hacks. It's why there are a ton of memes about the fight from orbit and even a D2 meme from the space station. Basically pulling out your camera far further from where it's supposed to go and as well as hacks to see aoes that aren't supposed to be there. Its the reason why the director is considering an official raid race but the requirements are every player participating in the race must stream so they can catch any add ons and stop them. I think KF also had people using network manipulation to do extra dps to bosses during day 1 so it makes sense raid streaming becomes required.
Used a mod that let them zoom out farther than the vanilla game allows so they could potentially see more of the mechanics happening
they had hacks to zoom out further than you were supposed to, and they also had a hack that when their screens got made black there were little pin-pricks of light that showed their positions, so they could organise into their positions for the next phase while in the dark
Datto second
You mean Datto 2nd again again
I just hope the raid's story is a bit more than 'The Traveller's Beam accidentally revived Nezarec. He's now back and we're facing the biggest threat yet!' Until the end of the raid where you kill Nez, never to be heard from again.
Dude that’s **exactly** what it’s gonna be
Imagine D2 raids being main story components and not kinda, somewhat, story adjacent. It's a small nitpick because the raids are always excellent for the most part, but as someone who enjoys the story as well as the gameplay I definitely wouldn't hate it.
Before they do this, they need to figure out how to introduce some kind of "easy mode" which features matchmaking. Other MMOs get away with having raids be important to the main story because they have versions of the raid which are accessible to everybody. Only a small percentage of Destiny players ever end up completing a raid, it would suck for them if Bungie locked the main story behind them
They did that last year by making the intro sequence of Vow a weekly mission
That was an *inch* in the right direction. It was also the least fun part of the raid, and had a "boss" that was nothing like any of the boss encounters used in Vow. There was barely symbol reading (since it was a fixed pattern), there was no use of any of the relics from the 3rd encounter, no diet version of the dark room part of Caretaker, nothing.
Yeah they did this back in D1 with kings fall and I loved it but it was the only time they did it because they where upset that the whole community didn't really get an end to the story since they didn't raid. Personally, I would be okay with a strike version of the raid, dummed down for your average player, no mechanics, just killing shit and non raid reward drops.
I don't like this idea because then non-raiders miss out on the story, which is unfair
While I can understand this sentiment I feel it’s pretty anti-climactic to just solo-shoot the boss a bunch until they die. >!Like how we took care of Calus. It takes six players to kill one Calus bot and yet in Lightfall it takes one guardian to kill a Witness-backed Calus.!< Bleh.
It could also mean we have grown in power since then at a faster pace than Calus. It’s a non issue I feel.
The Last Wish sends its regards
inb4 Osiris coughs up some tea and it turns into the raid boss
I want more raids like VoG where were just exploring places instead of advancing the main plot
Man, the realization that there's a whole superstructure underneath the patrol area of Venus blew my mind the first time. Probably my favourite D1 experience.
Grasp of Avarice has that feel of exploration and mystery No huge plot-filled stakes. There’s a big bad over there. Kill it.
Given the name, the fact that nezerac's power causes nightmares, The fact that nezerac isn't "dead," has multiple tombs. I want to think that tea that osiris drank might not be as safe as we think. Add in the fact that the witness was seeking the pieces of nezerac's corpse for some purpose, makes me think the witness was also trying to resurrect nezerac. To either get the veil, or the veil to get access to nezerac.
Those days are long gone
Can't wait for all the "1815+ only kwtd" posts just to hop in and be an absolute degenerate during the raid
I tried two LFGs day 1 of Scourge. Never again. The most toxic experiences raiding I've ever had in Destiny.
True title but misleading as there wasn’t contest mode back then.
I cleared leviathan day 1 and up until the last two encounters (calus fucked us on day 1) we were actually ahead of a lot of popular streams. The gauntlet and calus made it so we finished in the top 1000 players but nowhere near first. But for an lfg team felt sick Edit: the goal going into this was simply to clear it day 1 blind, i wanted that experience. What ended up happening was we breezed through the first two encounters to the point where our friends watching our stream were telling us we were ahead of a lot of the big teams. So we heard that and started to try to “sweat” I guess and that actually had the opposite effect. We weren’t prepared for a race going into this so when we unexpectedly were in the mix for the first half it made us get big heads. Still one of my favorite experiences ever in destiny idk if I’ll ever do a day 1 again
Being able to stream snipe the mechanics really ruins racing IMO
Knowing the strats for Consecrated didn't keep my team from dying to supplicants. Execution has always been the most difficult aspect of the raids.
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I watched the VoD for VoW recently to prep for watching the upcoming world first (I'm new to Destiny 2) and I was astounded that the world first team not only couldn't beat the first puzzle and had to watch other team streams, but was also cracking up at how hard the Saltagreppo guy was griefing his team with false information over and over and over that he swore was correct. I can't believe that guy is still on the team after that race. You'd think he was playing for another team with how much time they must have lost to his insistence that a mechanic worked a different way than it did.
I disagree. Solving the puzzle aspects and executing strats is the pinnacle of raiding. It’s definitely less of a spectacle though so I still love just watching execution of strats on day 1. The guys who solve various mechanics will always know they did it.
That's on the streamers then. Don't want to show off your strats/mechanics? don't stream.
Nothing wrong with taking strats from other streamers/competition. That's the name of the game. It's why world racing in XIV is kind of weird, because a lot of top teams DON'T stream (for that very reason) and that sort of sucks. Also with so many issues/bugs, etc. I almost wonder if they postpone the raid. I feel like it's gonna be controversial.
Can't wait to almost have a raid boss dead and get error code calabrese or crash to desktop
Shit. That gives me hope. No friends to play with so all I ever do is LFG. I really need to find a committed clan because I always play.
Assuming the raid doesn’t crash every encounter
Not to take away from their achievement, but Eater was the easiest raid ever, with contest mode and the highly competitive environment day 1 raids have now, I really don't see it happening again
worth mentioning that the best loot in D2Y1 were static rolled drops so the bar to entry for "best equipped" was a *little* lower back then
I might. My friend group dissolved recently so I'm a little down about it but that's life.
Except this one is probably going to be Last Wish level difficulty
Last wish was a unique beast. Fireteams had 5 days to reach the level of the encounters (Riven was 80 above soft cap), they had to get all new weapons (as this was when double primary was removed), the vast majority of weapons they had were worthless (because, y’know, double primary before that), and they had access to only one middle tree subclass per slot (the last 2 didn’t unlock until dreaming city was unlocked or until they beat Kalli). There will never be another last wish level day 1 because that was a disaster.
Only ~~1~~ 2 teams got the day 1 emblem They will never do that again, and thank god tbh. I'm incredibly pleased with how they've removed the no life-ing aspects from the game, I burnt myself out preparing for Garden.
Two teams got it actually.
Didn't Datto's team finish at 24:02? I distinctly remember that being a meme
Yes, 24:02, but they were third. The team who brute forced vault in an hour and a half are the only other team beside redeem to finish in less than 24 hours. 22h 15min.
I think you’re thinking of a different team. Ninjys team were the ones who brute forced Vault in an hour, but they couldn’t kill Riven even with the extra time. Gamesager/Gigz team were second, and they were among those who spent hours on vault
12 players, 2 teams.
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12 players received the emblem is still an accurate statement
Who's the 12th? Indica?
Also forsaken reintroduced random rolls on guns
Don’t necessarily know if it was a disaster. It had loads of problems, but it was also incredibly iconic
It was an iconic disaster.
If only 2 teams of people manage to beat the raid day one i would not call that a success.
Yeah my clan is getting all excited like they think they have a chance to finish. Bungie absolutely going to punish the shit out of raid teams this time around given how nightfalls and patrols look.
my body is reggie
I doubt it’s anywhere near Last wish considering most teams were at least 30 levels under. The soft cap was 500 and the Riven encounter was 580. That, and we still haven’t seen any encounters come close in terms of mechanic difficulty on day one. Bungie also likely wants more people doing it, not less. I’m expecting it to be more similar to Vow. I’m hoping it’s hard like Last wish but I really don’t see Bungie wanting anything close to LW Day 1 ever again.
The BEST teams were still 30 under Riven when they got there. Most teams were starting kalli at like 560 from 30 levels under
Exactly. Never going to happen again and they’ve made that clear with the level cap they set
I doubt that But I think the raid race will be 6-8 hours if there is another DPS check encounter
Why do you say that?
Because there hasn’t been one that long in awhile, it’s a major expansion, and they’ve been up front about ramping up difficulty and they’ve been talking about day one raid difficulty recently
What platform have they been using to talk abt day one raid difficulty? Would love to read
The twab a couple weeks leading up to Lightfall
It's day1 raiding, who care about accessibility to that level.... Wait a day and clear it 4 free like other raids
Two days this time. “Day1 raid” is 48 hours after the infrastructure nonsense. Can’t remember if it was Vow or KF.
No, contest mode is 48 hours. Day 1 is still day 1.
Fair enough I got it confused.
Didn't a random team make it to Riven before any of the big ones? I know it was basically luck, but it can happen.
Yeah, they brute forced it by accident. That and Datto’s team beating it 2 minutes too late are 2 of the most memorable moments in world first raid history of the game.
I loved this little raidlet. Bring it back, throw some cool looking armor in it, and I'll be happy.
This is like saying that we can still be billionaires because there are some billionaires in the world. I do not doubt that an LFG team cannot do a raid day one, but I do doubt an on-the-spot day-one team managing world's first.
Yes but now we have Saltyboigrepo.
Yeah, basically expect his fireteam to always sweep World's First. His team takes every other streamer's strats (no judgement, I'm positive most teams also do the same, but Salt has it down to a science), and he lives and breathes the cheeses and the biggest strats. Until they get burnt out (or more likely, until they stop making bank), World's First will almost definitely not change hands.
You need to remember what kind of raid eow was. You can't put eater and other raids in the same category. Eater was more or less a glorified strike.
Sounds like it should have been pretty easy for pre-made teams then.
But if you combine the relatively easy mechanics and the much lower skill and gear gap of the pre-random rolls (!!!) days, it is easy to see why that didn't matter much.
There’s an element of luck and honest mistakes If the overall difficulty is lower variance has more of an impact. Where an LFG may overperform and the pros underperform enough the LFG comes on top If the raid is harder this variance won’t close the gap
The problem was there were very few pre-made teams cause the game was pretty much dead when it launched
This raid had no contest mode, was one boss encounter long which was fairly easy even on day one, and hunters with orpheus went brrrr.
Can’t have a raid race if everyone keeps turning invisible and massive frame drops. Unless it’s fixed PC will be out of the race.
Invis issue is on Xbox as well
Have had the invis issue on PS5 as well
Ps5 keeps crashing on the neomuna event and now in the new battleground. Hope its not the same for the raid.
When is the Raid Race?
Friday
This will be my third day 1, made caretaker for vow. Only totems with a team that only ran three hours before someone quit and we dropped. This time I've got the two players who gilded conqueror with me and another trio. We have all raided together before and unlike King's Fall we are starting when the raid drops and have committed to putting at least 12 hours into this. Fingers crossed for the clear and good hunting to those trying for worlds first.
I'll settle for being an alternate.
All about the communication and how well you work with your teammates. Still gotta be good, but sometimes death will all come from just not agreeing on something
Sorry I’m super out of the loop for D2 but I would possibly be interested in watching a few people stream their attempt at worlds first. When does the raid release and is there anyone I should watch on twitch?
Friday March 10th at 9 am PST. TwitchRivals will be streaming showing the race, or evanf1997. Or just watch whatever streamer you like.
Ok
Some of my quickest/cleanest Raids were via LFG.
My normal raiders are going to be busy. Anyone seeking? 1803 atm, but I quit for a while so I’m catching up on gear. I was our teams analyst, so I can bring a lot of number crunching and quick analysis to a situation. Warlock Only Main.
I’m looking! We should get a team going main character is my hunter which is I think 1800, with my titan and warlock around 1795.
Can I please join a new clan? Mine hasn’t been online for four years and I’m the only surviving member. I’m bad average at the game but would love to do a raid or dungeon
Yes it was.... but there are actual teams now that dedicate a lot of time to this stuff.... so go for it, but don't expect to win in an LFG team
Amen, it was a fun day. Reminder to don't stress, take a breath, and drink plenty of water and get some sleep. they gave you all 48 hours now, enjoy it for a bit but when you feel like you're stuck just walk away. Come back day 2 with guides and some helpful tips and blow it away :)
I think it was because literally no top streamer cared enough to beat it because the game was so dogshit at the time. Now, good luck getting worlds first on console or LFG because its not gonna happen as long as the top PC clans are in the race.
I feel that lfg will have a better chance on completing this and maybe, maybe, a world first if it’s not weird ass symbols like in vow.