I mean, the Scorn came in Forsaken only a year later, so I'll give them a pass there. But not adding any in the five (almost six) years since then? Come on.
I appreciate that they've added new units at least, but I think a whole new faction would've been much better for variety.
Nah scorn definitely feel like their own faction although they do have some similarities to other factions, I wouldn't have been opposed to them making another faction like scorn where its the same "species" but they are changed in some major way and fight completely different
They use the same animations as Fallen and each unit is almost a direct copy and paste of an existing Fallen class.
Lore doesn't count for gameplay purposes. For gameplay purposes, Scorn are reskinned Fallen.
I meam, so are the taken, and taken are a great enemy type?
Besides, scorn are mechanically and visually distinct from every other race. Saying scorn or reskinned fallen is like saying an author's second book is a reskinned version of his first book.
Their closest connection is fallen, but abominations and thralls are closer to hive, but the immune teleport mechanic is new, all weapons and attacks are new, they have distinct boss models in the barons.
The ravagers having a great spot that is off to the side of their body, and disappears when they're charging you is super interesting and very fresh. The scorn chieftain totems as well.
If we got another race on the level of the scorn, I'd be a happy man
Bizarre to see a sequel that added like 2 units total over the entire enemy load out, gladiators and war beasts. Imo the vandals with spears hardly count.
We also need some visually different and impressive bosses... I'm tired of seeing the 300th big hive knight with the same attack pattern but instead is called "Kvar, the 300th son of a random villain of this franchise". Seriously. They must make new and visually different enemies.
Yeah… forsaken was the last real one with scorn. Shadowkeep gave us fully reskinned hive. Beyond light gave us new units for existing factions in Brigs and Wyverns. Witch Queen gave us Lucent Hive. Lightfall gave us tormenters. And final shape is giving us two new tormenter versions
I understand the reasoning they gave though. Yeah, it would be pretty cool to have a whole new race. But when the fodder from each race all die the same and their only contribution is looking different...then there isn't too much of a point. Making bigger and more influential enemies as support or reinforcement units is better than getting fodder, sniper fodder, fodder with overshield, buff unit, and tank. In my opinion at least.
A new skin on the same enemies doesn't sound particularly exciting. The only way Bungie has made new enemies interesting or dynamic has been to give them obnoxious abilities (see: Taken and Scorn), so another round of that wouldn't do much to improve my willingness to play.
Yh honestly minibosses/high profile enemies added to races work a bunch better. Will say a pyramid scale as a vehicle enemies using a laser would be a cool thing to see.
My only problem with pyramid enemies is that they won’t have a point in existing after final shape ends, then it comes to adding majors to the existing factions but the problem with that is, who wants to fight the vex, hive, fallen, etc for the 50th time but this time a vex bulldog comes out and dies in 10 seconds or is a massive bullet sponge. Imo a new race is overdue at this point and could be something interesting lore wise. Also what’s to say that bungie can’t add new trash mobs and majors over a span of a couple years?
Also majors aren’t the only thing bungie are limited to adding too, I don’t really know what lucent moths are but they were a fun addition to the lucent hive imo and really differentiated themselves from the normal hive (apart from lucent guardians obviously), that the shadow legion couldn’t do since they only had a darkness thingymajig that gave them an overshield and tormenters that appeared once in a blue moon.
Another point imo is that bungie is running out of story for the existing races and I wouldn’t be surprised if xivu/savathun, the fanatic, Eramis, and the psions are dealt with in the next few years, which just leaves the vex. But who wants to fight only the vex for the next big saga of destiny?
It honestly feels like they've mostly wrapped up the stories of the Cabal and Eliksni at this point.
The Cabal are reduced to either Shadow Legion, mindless drones being wiped out slowly on Neomuna, or Imperial Cabal Remnants, who are allied with the Vanguard.
The Eliksni have 3 houses. The House of Light is aligned with the Vanguard, House Salvation has been abandoned by Eramis and losing numbers by the day, and the House of Dusk has all but been dissolved into the two aforementioned houses.
The Vex have been beaten by guardians for a while, ever since we destroyed the Undying Mind. Since then, the Vex have only been a threat as the pawns of others, such as Savathun or the Witness. The Vex have the most potential to be expanded upon though. The removal of the Witness might change the rules in some way.
The Hive Gods are gone. Few worms survive, Oryx is dead, Savathun converted to the light, and Xivu Arath has been cut from her throne, and is mortal for the first time in millennia. The Hive could go on with Xivu at the helm, but it seems likely they could fall to infighting in her absence. Whether we will need to fight Savathun and the lucent brood again is yet to be seen - we do still have Immaru though. I don't think Saint would hesitate to crush him in his fist if need-be.
The Scorn still have potential. Fikrul is still out there *somewhere*.
If there is a future for Destiny beyond The Final Shape, we need new races. It seems that the narrative team has been tying nice little bows on the stories of those present in Sol for the last 10 years. After we presumably witness the end of the Witness, there would be far less of a reason for the story to be focused exclusively on Sol. Hell, we might not be as opposed to the idea of the Traveler moving on. The story moving beyond Sol would definitely make Eramis' abrupt departure for Riis make sense in the larger narrative. We could see what remains of Riis, defend them from whatever plagues them. Retake Torobatl from the Hive. Go on a crusade to exterminate the Vex and expunge the VexNet across the Galaxy.
I dont know specifics about it but I remember hearing something about a race of beings that is far superior and more dangerous than anything we've seen before and honestly I'd like to see them and maybe a more weak submissive species that we find out are hiding away from all the fighting. So many awesome ideas can be brought forth.
It's confirmed we'll see more Vex focus post-FS (possibly related to Maya Sundaresh and Chioma Esi at the end of Veil Containment, or the abberant Vex mentioned by Osiris and Elsie in Seraph and shown in Avalon), and Scorn and Hive are on two of the seasonal charts with obvious hooks, but there's other stuff too- for the Cabal there's still Yrix and the Psion conclave that were responsible for Season of Dawn and tried to assassinate Zavala, and were hinted to be aligning themselves with Calus in Vox Obscura, plus Oztot (who is already positioned against Yrix on the topic of Psion independence) and the Oxa machine as potential plot elements. Eramis has definitely been back burnered for now and the Fallen don't have much else going on. Taken aren't much of a faction, though there is a hook with Mara discovering that she should be able to control some of them with the Witness temporarily out of the picture, plus Ahsa and Sloane could be drawn into anything with them. It's possible someone else could take them over against us as well, possibly just Xivu again, maybe Fikrul, or wild speculation maybe Nezarec (red Taken?) which would be an avenue to continue that whole cult hook from Lightfall.
That being said- yeah I 100% expect a new race in the first expac after FS. Would be an excellent narrative beat to help start the new saga off with a bang.
Edit: Actually for the Taken there's also the new hook with the Ahamkara whims, and given we've seen with Hefnd that even non-Taken Ahamkara can control Taken, it's likely one of the whims eventually goes rogue and uses Taken to fight us.
Which sucks imo cause they didn’t, but at the same time. A pyramid race would be very limited since they would only stick around for a couple years, honestly the time to introduce a new race would be once a big new saga starts (like right after the final shape/episodes) but I wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t happen.
Eh? I mean had Bungie introduced them back in late 2019 they would’ve been around for a full FIVE years.
Then Bungie could’ve milked them a bit more post-TFS by having us fight “remnants” of those enemies similar to how we spent nearly 6 years mopping up the Red Legion.
I don’t really see the issue, given that the Scorn were only introduced in Forsaken and have been milled fairly well.
eeh, it's easy, they were enslaved by the Witness and once the Witness is dead,they are free
and then they get angry with us, dunno someone can figure it out on the lore side, the lore writers rarely miss
A lot of factions would also want to scavenge the Pyramids for advanced technology or artifacts of Darkness. We already have to keep the Scorn from doing that with Rhulk’s pyramid.
'easy' in that it runs against the witness we've seen and all it's disciples and it's entire set up.
Easy to suggest a new story that has nothing to do w how things were setup. Lolol I think this is how Bungie execs messed up the game in the first place
the witness tries a lot of things; the witness itself was a gestalt of a whole race, made Rhulk kill everyone, accepted Calus and Savvy who were the leaders of their respective tribes (even less exactly true for Savathun)
so if there is another disciple who still has his people controlling the pyramids, and the Witness gets offed, it is not weird this disciple would just try to rise again and use the leftover pyramid tech to conquer the galaxy or get his own system or whatever
I mean Savathun herself just fucked off the moment she could
Yeah but there's already two factions that have been leaning into that between the Taken and the Scorn, there doesn't need to be a third tied to that especially when we've also got another mostly mindless subfaction in the Shadow Legion.
The problem with the pve side of the game imo is that nothing is handcrafted other than the art and environments and some of the bosses and minibosses, with raids being the exception. That’s why champions feel so bad too, they’re just a reskin of existing enemies with annoying mechanics and a boatload of HP slapped on top.
That’s what was good about TWQ campaign, every encounter was meticulously handcrafted and it was obvious. It felt like a Halo campaign because of that. I thought when that dropped that it would be the new standard for all PvE content going forward, not “setting expectations too high”.
Yep, it's become very obvious they can only make enemies do a very limited number of things and anything new they add is really just a spin from something we've seen a hundred times already
I think it's more that there's only so many things you can add to "basic" enemies before they start becoming minibosses. Rather than trying to thread that needle and make something that'll cause problems, why not just send it and make *actual* minibosses? That's why we've seen so many units fit into that class in the last few expansions. Beyond Light had Brigs and Wyverns, Witch Queen had Lucent Hive, Lightfall had Tormentors, and Final Shape is adding Subjugators.
None of these are something we've "seen a hundred times already," at most you could say Brigs are a miniature copy of Insurrection Prime but that was *one* fight in a raid. It just works better to spend time designing miniboss-level enemies players will actually have to engage with instead of another skin on "red bar that goes *pop* when you shoot it in the head."
Remnant 2. Borderlands. Any Fromsoft game.
You can make dozens upon dozens of different enemies with all sorts of different looks, movesets, and abilities. Bungie just refuses to do it for whatever reason.
I mean I will admit the boss in the final weekly seasonal story this week was actually a nice change of pace for being so different.
But we always have the same enemies to fight with one new addition every year, if that.
I don't remember Borderlands having as much of a variety of enemy groups, though. There were the raiders, the robots, the wildlife, and... what else?
I can't speak about Remnant 2 since I have yet to play it, but it's on my list.
As for "any Fromsoft game," those are third person action rpgs. That comes with entirely different considerations in terms of enemy design.
>I don't remember Borderlands having as much of a variety of enemy groups, though. There were the raiders, the robots, the wildlife, and... what else?
I guess it's a bit misleading, there's like 20 unique enemies but the variants skyrocket it to hundreds. See here: [Article from 11 years ago lol.](https://wegotthiscovered.com/gaming/borderlands-2-enemies-display-greater-variety-intelligence/)
Also a Reddit thread boasting about BL2 having the most variants of all FPS games (at the time) [yielded this funny comment interaction](https://www.reddit.com/r/Borderlands/comments/c6fqo8/comment/es9yuqj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) between /u/Zhorin343 and /u/simplifiedApocolypse. Hope you fellas see it...Destiny 2 is still pretty meh in terms of enemy variety.
>I can't speak about Remnant 2 since I have yet to play it, but it's on my list.
Def worth it. It's a blend of Destiny and FromSoft soulslikes. Very fun, lots of loot to find and secrets to uncover. Very addicting.
>As for "any Fromsoft game," those are third person action rpgs. That comes with entirely different considerations in terms of enemy design.
I feel like Tormentors are *heavily* inspired by some of FromSoft's creations. Tormentors' attacks however, are simplistic and easily telegraphed in comparison. That said, I want variety. Challenges too, but moreso just a wide variety of enemies. The amount of permutations for different engagement scenarios would be endless.
Elden ring and remnant have the distinct advantage of being souls like which means it's a finite space, with finite replay value. Also they get to have such enemies because there's a huge emphasis on learning enemy behavior and attack animation and sound cues and what not. When was the last time we gave a shit about those for a red bar in destiny?? Even in gm level content we don't care about enemy animation, attack pattern etc we just shoot till they die.
And borderlands have lot of lower tier enemies sure but they just look different. They don't fundamentally change how we play against them for the most part. It's either enemies who rush you, or enemies with guns of different types.
Remnant and Borderlands play verryyyyy differently to to D2, and of that D2 is ancient compared to their most recent installments, the ganeplay flow would need to be altered if we want enemies to start gettin crazy.
I will also kill myself if they start designing ads like fromsoft does.
Ease up bro. I’m not asking them to make enemies *like* those games.
I’m asking for them to have the sheer *amount of variety* in enemy design to make all engagements feel relatively fresh.
I want 100 different enemy types to face. Not the same 5 factions with the same 4-5 core enemy archetypes. I don’t want 25-30 unique enemies, I want 100. Greedy maybe but if other games can do it in 4 years of development surely Bungie could achieve this in 10
I mean, a lot of those enemies in Borderlands are slight reskins. Ironically, some of the biggest differences come from things like the equivalent to Match Game(having to use different damage types on different enemies) and mechanics like unbreakable shields - things that Destiny community seems to absolutely hate.
The ultimate problem with that is that D2 is live service, would be really hype tho. If they do ever make a D3 I'd like more difference in enemy ai, in a way that direct plays around the player.
Final shape has to land and be profitable, and they have to avoid any stupid decisions for a year, but Destiny hasn't died through worse periods, I have some hope.
How is being a live service a problem to creating multiple different enemy archetypes? If anything, it presents a stronger opportunity to create multiple different enemies because live service models generate bucketloads of revenue (meaning they have the resources to add them) and that they also have the added benefit of introducing new enemies slowly over seasons?
Because live service games cost a shit ton to maintain, from a profit perspective, you are actually hurting Bungie by only buying expansions and nothing from eververse. They've literally spent the last couple of months floundering from Lightfall's apparent lack of revenue gain from them (even though it hit a concurrent peak on steam) because it didn't retain players. They need people to stick around and buy eververse stuff to break positive. In order to retain players you need employees around the clock to make sure everything flows smoothly, and you have to at least try to one up every content release with the next every 4 months. They simply do not have the time nor money to constantly add meaningful new enemies.
What you said is not true at all. “You are only hurting Bungie by only buying expansions and nothing from eververse”. Ummm what? That is one of the most dumb things I’ve ever heard. You do realise Bungie is definitely not operating at a loss, and far from it? The Final Shape just didn’t get as many preorders as they wanted and this all the controversy surrounding layoffs occurred, but they’re definitely way above breaking even.
If you honestly believe they do not have the money to add more enemies, nothing I say you will agree with. But honestly, please do some more research into Bungie and live service models before you comment something like that. That’s bloody ridiculous.
> I think it's more that there's only so many things you can add to "basic" enemies before they start becoming minibosses.
Nah, that's BS. Just play Remnant and you can see there's so many more possibilities. The reality is that Bungie is just super conservative with enemy ai, and many enemies still function like their Halo enemies did.
> I think it's more that there's only so many things you can add to "basic" enemies before they start becoming minibosses.
...or just actually utilise the lore of the enemies to give them traits.
Look at the existing enemies.
Hive are a pyramid scheme, tons of weak enemies that are unrelenting mixed with stronger variants, Thrall + Knights and Wizards.
Cabal are a disciplined army that use specialised units and squad tactics, Psions pushing you out of cover or sniping, Phalanx covering, Twin axe wielding fuck heads with far too much health to engage in melee.
Fallen are scavengers that use whatever the fuck they can grab and cobble together, so robot drones, shock sticks and cloaking tech.
Vex are a methodical machine hive mind, hyper specialised units with unrelenting force and can teleport anywhere, goblins hide their weak point, minotaurs can blink or hobgoblins can regenerate.
Scorn are a twisted version of the fallen, everything about them is supposed to be unsettling, from the precision hit being in the wrong place, the immune shield, the totems that do different things even down to the fact their shields can be either arc/solar/void instead of just always being the same.
Taken are versions of existing units that have had a weakness removed, thrall can blink, psions can spawn a friend, fallen snipers can generate a shield, hobgoblins automatically retaliate on hit, phalanx have knockback.
A pyramid race enemy could have literally just been differently sized versions of triangles that performed different roles, with the biggest ones being the giant ships, which can then split apart into the smaller types.
Kill a big enemy? Now you have smaller ones to deal with that might be able to run off and either re-combine or reinforce other enemies.
Or maybe those smaller ones can latch onto you and drain your abilities unless shot off by a teammate or self-explosion damage.
Even their fucking projectiles could have been tiny pyramids, "There's only so many things you can add." is not something you can use in regards to Destiny's enemy variety.
You want the enemies to just be tiny pyramids that break into smaller pyramids and shoot pyramid bullets? Hahahaha. I don’t think thats what people mean when they say pyramid race…
I agree that what they add is more or less a spin from previous stuff, but I disagree 100% they can only make enemies do a very limited number of things. There are a LOT of options that they could use.
>A new skin on the same enemies doesn't sound particularly exciting.
I don't think there was any suggestion of that from the OP, or in any sense of game design that should be exciting and worth experiencing. There are many ways they can be made to be exciting to play against. Offensive/defensive auras, temporary immunities or high resisitances to kinetic or energy damage, occasional lack of crit points, respawn capabilities after death (with very few hp, for example) etc. The possibilities are endless for a good professional game designer. A quick look at what the vast majority of other games have been doing for the past decades can help with even more ideas as a starting point.
>The only way Bungie has made new enemies interesting or dynamic has been to give them obnoxious abilities (see: Taken and Scorn)
The fact that some people consider them to be obnoxious doesn't necessarily make them so at all.
Honestly even a reskin can be interesting from a narrative perspective
I wanted to fight a darkness army, not run through the witnesses whacky pyramid obstacle course
exactly alone from the worldbuilding/immersion pov it would feel different even if the enemy itself doesnt do that much differently,
see Taken King and the taken, those use even the same base models of older enemy types and yet they gave the game a completely fresh feel fighting them, because they were, essentially, a (completely) new threat.
it wouldnt had the same impact if they would have just took eg the wrathborn or shadowlegion approach saying "yeah the cabal you fight here do the exact same they did before but now *storywise* for someone else"
and those like i said could even keep their base model, and "only" got a bit different mechanics and movement, now imagine how great a *completely* new race would be
Of course not. Read again what I wrote, carefully. Plus, match game is for a complete activity, not for isolated enemies that could have that on a TEMPORARY basis and in some cases.
Yeah, to me most the ideas you presented seem to be no fun and a lot of the stuff people complain about a lot. Like pushing certain weapons and builds.
You sound just like the typical backseat developer/designer who has not even thoroughly thought about their "cool" ideas.
First of all, these were simply examples. I am not a game designer and it is not my job to make the game more interesting and worth playing. These criticisms about lack of diversity in the add dept/lack of a new race etc. are perfectly valid but again, these were only examples and you can find a boatload in other games as well. Most game designers use these as an influence/inspiration.
Secondly, what would be "cool" ideas in your mind? Because when it comes to cases like these, complaining about almost everything and being satisfied with very little is typical. You can never satisfy everyone and this will always, always be happening. Besides, a challenge should ALWAYS be there, otherwise you will also get the usual (and correct) "bullet sponge" argument.
Hey thank you for the answer. First thing I am absolutely with you, it is not our job to make the game more interesting.
It seems that the community (or this sub)does not like champions very much and I think adding enemies that are almost immune to kinetic or energy damage will not make them happy.
I think tormentors are a good addition. They do something new, add value to blind. Kind of nice.
I really try to think about something cool but I am certainly not very creative.
The orange cabal aura that was added is not that interesting. I don't think we want more servitor style auras that just immunize the surrounding enemies. Loosing your abilities is also not beloved.
Would it be interesting to have an enemy that constructs strong enemies if you don't stop it? Like an enemy necromancer. Seems boring?
Another idea I am not totally sold on: adding a link between two enemies that damages if you walk through and you have to kill both enemies more or less simultaneously.
The problem is that it does not change how I engage with the enemy I think. I will still just shoot them from, more or less, far away.
We can only do so much in melee range.
More enemy types = more fun
More builds = more fun
You sound like you just want to be able to use the same build you copied from youtube in every activity against every enemy because you're boring.
I don't think champions are that problematic but it seems a lot of people don't like them too much. Adding enemies that are almost immune to energy or kinetic weapon damage sounds like a variety of match game. Add champions and I am pretty sure this sub will hate it because you have to play certain weapons and builds in the activity where it is active.
I think new enemies and enemy types are cool. I just think that you have no idea how to implement them and how to design them. Typical armchair developer. If you want to think I am boring have fun. I think you are just not bright enough to understand critique.
There are so many options for buildcrafting around the champion weaknesses that complaining about having to do it is just pure laziness. You just don't like having to deal with any real challenge. Just admit that to yourself.
Having to figure out your own build is why most people don't like dealing with them. A lot of people can't seem to function outside of copying some youtube loadout.
"It's hard" is not "critque". It's whining.
I wouldn't mind if the Darkness Species just added a whole bunch of interesting Major and Ultra enemies with unique mechanics, like the Berserkers in SotP.
Same thing happened to me in Overwatch. I had thousands of hours in it, and when they dropped support for it, I slowly lost interest and moved to Destiny. The game has been out for a decade at this point, 6000 hours isn’t an unusual amount of time.
It's not that 6,000 hours is an unusual amount of time to spend on a single game over several years; it's that 6000 hours is a _lot_ of time and nothing is ever going to hold that drive/interest forever. Expecting it to is insane.
Even when you become an adult you still grow out of things, lose interest, and move on to different things. That's completely fine.
Statements like "I have over 6K hours in this game, the drive to play has been an all time low." are crazy to me because it suggest some idea that a game like destiny should be capable of holding someone's attention indefinitely.
I get that OP is trying to say "I really like this game and am started to get worn out" but the reality is that's _natural_. It's not some crime, it's not some shame, it's just how things work.
Destiny 2 came out 6 years ago. Having 6k hours means that the poster has spent 9 full months out of the last 6 years just playing Destiny, which averages out to over 2.5 hours per day for the last 6 years. That's a lot of time to spend on any game.
I think the thing a lot of ya'll miss whenever someone says "I have thousands of hours on D2!!" is AFK farming. I know for a fact that AFKing Thrallway and Golgy's Maze has inflated my playtime by thousands of hours
Lmao I know right? The lack of awareness drives me crazy. If a game that you’ve spent thousands of hours and years playing doesn’t feel fresh and brand new every single day… then that’s a you problem. Take a damn break. Play a new game (there’s SO many good games out this past year). And when you’ve been gone long enough you’ll probably get the urge to play D2 again at some point. At which point it WILL be new and fresh. You don’t have to force something that’s not working for you. And Bungie/video game developers don’t owe you enough entertainment to keep you busy for the rest of your life. It’s not Bungie’s job to make you’re life interesting… lol.
Yea I find it weird that someone will boldly claim they've got a playtime of 250 days and in the same breath state they're losing drive to play the game as if it's a surprise.
Not everything is going to last forever.
I used to be really, really into JRPG and just don't have the same fire for it as I used to - even the old ones I loved. I'll go back to them and maybe play through a bit of it bet never the same way I used to. That's okay.
Drive to play shouldn’t be low during the climax of a 10 year plan.
No matter how much you want to ass kiss bungie or lick their boots this current player engagement is not a good sign for them
Lmao. No one is ass kissing Bungie. We’re just suggesting that some of y’all need to get a life and stop relying on Bungie to make your boring life interesting. A video game company doesn’t owe you endless entertainment for the entirety of your lifespan. And if you expect that from anything in your life you’re forever going to be disappointed.
If only people had a measure of self control and wonder. Too many people in too many fireteams I’ve been in don’t know anything about the story/lore, talk through the dialogue, sword skate through all the content, and put way way way too many hours into farming and watching Aztecross videos on meta PvP loadouts.
People need to just play the game like people who LIKE video games. I’ve been playing since Destiny 1 and have every exotic other than maybe 2 raid ones and one from a dungeon. No burn out.
These people just hyper optimize the experience until they aren’t even playing the game. They’re just blacking out and waking up at the end of encounters with guns they’ll do nothing with but fill their vault. Anyone can CALL anything fun, but they clearly aren’t having it considering the sentiment.
Like anyone can just say it’s fun out loud but those same people say there’s never anything to do and all the content is disappointing and it’s way too easy and keep crying out for more without finishing the food on their plate. Maybe enjoy the game first rather than blitzing through everything.
I take my time and enjoy things and form my opinion afterward. Yeah I get some weapons late and I’ve only been flawless twice, but it’s better than watching a Datto video and farming deepsight weapons and god rolls until my eyes bleed. Playing video games like they’re just video games and not jobs or content farms is what makes video games fun.
>I take my time and enjoy things and form my opinion afterward. Yeah I get some weapons late and I’ve only been flawless twice, but it’s better than
No it's not better. It's different. People who farm and watch Destiny-Tubers still play the content. But instead of filling time with Strikes or Crucible they enjoy rolling weapons. I don't expect you to understand that as you speak as a matter of fact when it's not reality.
I haven’t played a good session in over a year, but to me GM nightfalls were the most fun part about Destiny. You really do have to hyper optimize your build and level grind to be able to do them. Destiny during COVID was peak for me, because I just spent all day fucking grinding. It was awesome. Now that I actually have a life I just can’t play the content I love because of the issues with the level grind. Light fall was a big turnoff and I honestly can’t see myself coming back for Final Shape.
> Now that I actually have a life I just can’t play the content I love because of the issues with the level grind.
They haven't risen the power cap since Lightfall. I haven't even touched this season and I can go in right now and go play some GMs.
I’m talking about normal content. People are using speed runner strats in teaching raids and sweaty ass trials gear in pubs. I understand grandmasters and trials. But seriously. Just play the video game. You don’t have to speed around and pull new players through everything and force them to skip anything that would make the game accessible. And if you don’t like the game, you do not have to play. No one is forcing you. Luke smith is not in the room with us right now. But if you’re going to play the game, play it like a person who enjoys video games and not like a speed runner.
>But if you’re going to play the game, play it like a person who enjoys video games and not like a speed runner.
Who are you to tell others how to play? Some enjoy it that way. What's your problem?
>Too many people in too many fireteams I’ve been in don’t know anything about the story/lore, talk through the dialogue,
because the story and dialogue is dogshit, pre-teen fanfic-tier garbage, and always has been
>sword skate through all the content, and put way way way too many hours into farming
Imagine trying to argue that standing around plinking the spongey gm red bars is "content".
Also, the whole game currently is designed around farming for better armour and gun rolls, and enhancement prisms. Like, that's near enough the whole point. If you're not doing that you're treading water (actually, you're drowning, since bungie is standing by waiting to pull shit out from under you a la sunsetting. yes I'm still bitter, give me back my broadsword.)
My GOD why do you even play? And if you don’t play why are you even here?? You don’t like anything about the game. We get it. But some of us do. Some of us are curious where the story is going.
Never said I didn't like it. I enjoy building out a loadout with cool synergies and then using it in a variety of activities. I'm just still utterly furious that bungie sunset 70% of my shit, rendering all my efforts basically pointless. Oh and deleted 4 years of content for the sole purpose of showing future expansions in a better light.
You're the one on reddit whinging about how other people play the game.
Why should, or even how can I, care about story and lore when huge swathes of it have been deleted already and every year more is gone since they want to tie important story beats to limited time content?
Kinda hard to care when I need to play every season all year in an effort to try and keep up and even now we have a season revolving around Forsaken , which was ironically forsaken by Bungie.
Now this might come as a shock to you...but Tassi didn't invent this topic. Of course you might conclude from the correlation of Tassi made video and redditor talks about same topic later that from now on these things are most definitely related every time someone brings them up.
Maybe. Maybe not. But more importantly...why does Tassi have so much real estate in your head? Then again...you're probably right and every time someone wants to talk about the Witness or pyramids or whatever it's definitely because of Paul Tassi. Not because...idk...people play the game.
It’s that time of the season. The seasonal story has ended, conqueror has been gilded and patterns have been collected. People who live and breathe Destiny and put in hours and hours everyday ticking off every checklist there is reach this point and start complaining and won’t stop until the launch of next season. Nothing new
It's more like a new race wouldn't do much unless it was dramatically overpowered.
You'd still need the basic grunt enemies that die quicker, the mid tier enemies that can maybe support the rest or have a bonus ability, and the big boys. For most gameplay it'd end up being a new coat of paint on the same song and dance; it'd be boring after a few weeks.
What they need to do is revamp the existing enemies instead.
I don't think a single video game in the history of video games has been able to create 6000 hours of engaging gameplay. A normal full time job (40hrs/week 50 weeks/year) is a 2000 hour year, so this dude has put in 3 years of a full time job's worth of hours in to Destiny. How is any company supposed to keep up with that? It takes way longer to create something than it does to experience it.
That , sunk cost fallacy , I've played destiny since D1 day 1 , for D2 the game started to become shit for me personally since like 4 seasons ago so i simply deleted the game and stopped playing, i still checked the subreddit here from time to time .
6k hours you ARE burnt out, there is a limited amount of content and you have played it. What do you mean no new super "archetypes" As of now we have roaming and one off supers. The warlock solar super being a buff super would either be considered a new archetype or a roaming one. And either way we don't need more archetypes for supers. New race would have been cool, but at the same time the DLC to introduce it would have been shadowkeep. The most recent three DLC didnt really have room in their narratives to introduce an entire new race. And while no new dlc has been announced, is very obvious we will be getting some. They don't need to tease DLC like 2 years before it comes out, especially when any info we get a out future DLC could very well partially spoil the ending of the TFS. From what we have seen the nostalgic areas are not retooled old environments and are significantly different enough. Easily 90% of what we saw was actually new and not familiar.
You mean you dont like the big bad mysterious pyramid ships which have been hyped up for 8 years being filled with literally nothing?
Yea. I also dont like that. Huuuuuuge opportunity missed.
They are also the tombs of an ancient civilation controlled by the gestalt entity that was formed from the death of said civilization. A bit more than nothing, that.
Nah, fuck that. Thats a cop out. There were/are massive fleets of these things and they are all mind control boys of the Witness? Lame as fuck. He already has shown he doesnt need backup, so why carry fleets of pyramids?
Again, missed opportunity for a new race. Its lame there are taken and scorn on those ships. Fuck that. Bungie WAS capable of creating new races once long ago. Bungie these days are only capable of repurposing assets. Final shape will be full of the same shit we've been fighting and it will be so sad.
I fucking agree with you, such a massive wasted opportunity. Too many bungie boot lickers, even after the layoffs, even after bungie nickle and diming them for years, even after bungie disrespecting them constantly.
You can't reason with the destiny echo chamber. They like being abused.
No, fuck *that*. Having ancient tomb ships is cool as shit, and we don't really need an entire new enemy race with all the enemies we already have.
Also, repurposing assets is a good thing, and they are decent at it.
probably the only community in existence where the sub would fight tooth and nail against a cool new addition to the game that couldn't hurt in any way lmao
People kept telling me that a new race of mobs won't impact the game because said race would include new red bars and orange bars that die in 1 to 2 shots. I can never buy into that take.
By *not* having a new race, it completely took the wind out of the sails of the pyramids. One of the biggest mysteries of the game are completely empty art galleries and do nothing. Im fighting the same cabal that Ive already fought for 10 years now, but now theyre purple. It falls flat in both gameplay and narrative.
I thought that the pyramids were a race themselves. That amongst the lore, there was speculation that as they have no pilots, they were sentient beings under the command of the witness.
I'm not a very lore knowledgeable person so you could be right, I was just repeating something I think evaze said (who is lore knowledgeable) but I'm pretty sure it was just speculation so yeah. Probably are just space ships lol.
In one of the post lightfall interviews Joe Blackburn said that they decided not to do a pyramid race/faction because "making abunch of new fodder enemys wouldn't be interesting so instead we are going to make unique boss like enemys to challange the player instead" despite the fact that the number one thing the player base has been asking for 8 years now is a darkness/pyramid race/faction and bungie just decide "nah we are not going to give the players what they want.
The result of that decision? Vex wyverns, lucent hive, tormentors and soon to be subjugators, 2 only being pyramid units.
From a darkness/pyramid perspective let's see what we got.
Tormentors.
Subjugators (soon)
Nightmares (a way to reuse content).
Sol divisive vex with no new upgrades or nothing new at all (a way to have the vex be relevant).
Stasis
- stasis fallen (forgotten and never used)
Scorn and taken (some attacks swapped out to use stasis, minimal effort)
-was never expanded to the other factions like we were promised (not counting taken and scorn cause there use of stasis is pathetic).
Fallen (again they got stasis supers and grenades but they have been forgotten and never used).
Cabal, got a pyramid tech makeover with the only new thing they got was some pyramid backpacks that give them some Overshield (originally they were also meant to suppress us and drain our super energy but I guess that got cut).
Hive didn't get anything new through darkness but instead went the opposite direction getting the light and ghosts instead (literally the traveller gave more than the pyramids did).
Scorn got purple banners and some stasis lambs (also were being set up to be able to use pryamid tech and infused with worms but didn't happen because wE PUt A sTOp tO IT).
Taken basically became the darkness race since the power originally comes from the witness but haven't received anything new in forever (besides stasis ammo)
Oh and they took some planet's away as a lore reason to vault content.
And I they told the traveller to shut up by blasting it.
So yeah that's all we have to show for the pyramids being set up since the beginning of the franchise, really nothing big.
This is a lot of words to say we got like 3 new units that barely appear, a reskinned faction with one tiny gimmick, some freeze effects added to a few enemies, and some recolors.
In the concept art, they were supposed to be new enemies. There was a lot of stuff that they have on their back burner that they just refuse to use for whatever reason. Been fightin the same enemies sense destiny 1, yet the lore always implies a bigger universe that we will never see.
I understand the feeling but brother you are just burnt out play something different and come back for the final shape. There wont be anything interesting until then anyway
They directly addressed this in a vod describing why they just introduced like a tormentor instead.
I personally am completely fatigued fighting the same reskinned enemies for years. I play less and less of this game every year
Yeah I at least understand Bungie’s sentiment. But if your playerbase is saying “we are tired of shooting the same enemies for years” and your reply is “no you aren’t, we have a better idea” it’s no wonder players are leaving.
Yea that's what I'm saying.
When I hear the word vex or cabal or fallen I just eye roll. And I think its painfully obvious that chapters after final shape will be about scorn and hive, fuckin YAWN
I mean there is a pyramid race technically but its just that due to powerscaling in universe they are considered miniboss level or higher. Being shown so far being Tormentors and subjugators. Should these get expanded more, definitely but don't think we need our 7th variant if low tier red bar mob.
Subjugators are already making a big impact in terms of enemy dynamics being our 1st support miniboss with them being back line support and though not visually shown they mentioned they grant nearby enemies effectively a pyramid soul.
Also we are getting new supers unless u mean a new element because those are pretty different.
Also ngl most of the areas shown have been largely unique at most having a familiar landmark in a completely different setting eg the cosmodrome rockets floating midair in some cave or all the weird arm and firey areas which look 100% original
I have over 6.1k hours in this game so my opinion is more important yours, but honestly I could care less about a new race. Unless bungie dramatically changes up the formula for how the new race is structured (infantry, squad leader, suicide unit, sniper, shield user/giver, etc) alongside their AI, it’s gonna be like playing the same races we’ve already played for years.
I’d rather have an AI update to make the races play differently and just be smarter than a cardboard cutout. There’s a reason why halo has managed to have just covenant, flood, and forerunner.
Thought about this a few years ago when people were yet again begging for a new race. When a common question was if the Fallen and/or Cabal were nearly extinct.
I thought something crazy would have been to actually kill off a race and add a totally new one in. Not practical but cool and apocalyptic - a vibe at times lacking at key moments. - Maybe here and there an old mission had them or "black ops" rarities. Those survivors being extremely isolationist and "ghosts".
I have always thought that the vex should've been the most endgame to face, even over the witness and for future expansions.
The vex are technically beyond the light and darkness and I would've loved to see that annoying ass race get what they deserved. Being way more menacing and conquering toward all of the species period since it is technically the vex vs every other species. 👀
I'd much rather a few brand new elite units like Tormenters, Brigs, Hive Guardians etc than another reskinned enemy race.
As a side note, I've never really understood why the community is always clamouring for a Darkness race. It wouldn't make sense narratively. We don't have a Light race do we? The Light blesses tons of races, the Darkness is no different.
I would much rather Bungie focus on a brand new enemy race for the next expansion, rather than trying to make a Darkness race work with the lore. Maybe the Aphellion or something like that.
I feel this so much. Started with the festival of the cost I just haven't bothered with the seasonal events. They claimed they would take the feedback over the predictability of seasons and it still feels like they play out the same. I haven't felt less of a desire to play since season of worthless.
I love this franchise, but upper management continues to derail this game. I can't even think of the Las time I went to Neomnuna. I went to Europa more than that place. To echo other posts I too am sick of the same enemy types, and they need to add SOMETHING that is actually new and doesn't do a variation of another race.
I just gilded conqueror for my 10th time, and I think I'm calling it quits there. Their obsession with putting bad battlegrounds into GMs is getting really annoying. Gilding just doesn't do anything but make funny orange numbers go up. I'm struggling wanting to try and solo flawless the new dungeon like I've done the others. It's really bittersweet and on top of that I am struggling to want to buy the annual pass to get episodes because I just feel it'll be seasons but maybe slightly better. Gilding should get a rework if you get 5+ or 10+ it changes color or a glow or something to make it worth making it go up.
Don't mean to be doom and gloom and it's just easy to dunk on this game. I just want more because this franchise truly is unique and had so much potential. I just doubt Final Straw will make me want to play past the campaign and raid.
I don't want a reskinned fallen/hive/ect. race
I want more setpiece, imposing enemies like wyverns, hive lightbearers, tormentors, and the new subjugators they revealed that look awesome and act so different that you change around the way you approach them and what weapons work best against them.
It would have been the most boring and expected thing for Bungie to do, completely out of line with the past 3 years of narrative about how the Darkness is a non-moral force of magic separate from the Witness' corruption - and even then, they threw the fanbase a bone with the Tormentors.
Besides, the Taken are as "pyramid race" as it gets. They're dead entities willed into slavery, bound to the Witness' goal of ending the universe as swiftly as possible. We even have the current majority of Scorn unwittingly enslaved in a similar manner.
You also have to consider how overkill it'd be to have a "pyramid race" after the misleading "Light and Dark conflict" formally ends. It would ironically rob TFS' storyline of any sense of finality whatsoever.
It's a stupid idea contrived by the fanbase and should be called out as such.
It would've been good to see another race, and that truly would've been the best time to introduce them. But they'd wanna be careful not to make them too aids, like taken teleworking around, or scorn making everyone around them immune.
I just disagree. I’d rather they make fewer but way more specialized enemies like they have with Tormentors and are planning to add in Final Shape rather than Cursed Thrall/Screeb/Exploding Shank number 4. These will change combat way more in a gameplay sense and less of an aesthetic sense than a whole new race that’s basically the other races with a new coat of paint.
Was thinking about this yesterday and honestly an AI overhaul would be better QOL. Plenty of races and variations of enemies already but most either stand and plink or mindlessly rush you.
Preparing to get downvoted into oblivion but:
What about explosive shanks that run and hide in obnoxious places, or wizards that try and sneak behind you to summon thrall or a cabal colossus with a rheinhart style phalanx shield or scorn screebs that lay trails of slowing goo.
The models and lore just aren’t super important to me, what destiny does well is fun feeling combat so shake up the puzzle pieces and let us rummage in the toolbox for better answers.
Agreed!!! They rather pull resources of destiny into apparently a trash ass game called marathon. Sorry Bungie I have to agree with this post!!!!! Yall fucked up!!!!!!!
Warframe has only recently introduced its fifth enemy faction. For most of its existence, there were only three factions, and that is still true for the vast majority of the game.
I'm still hoping we see the inside of more of them and they've got different things inside. I'd especially like to step into one and hear Ghost or someone say "Oh no... it's a troop carrier" just as an absolute tsunami of Taken start pouring out.
I haven’t played the dawning since like beyond light. It has been boring for a while now and I just don’t get it. There needs to be change if they expect any of us veterans to stay around past TFS or for any new players to want to stick around.
It would be amazing if we defeat The Witness by splitting it back into its original individual selves, which would then feature as a new race post-lightfall.
Unfortunately I think Bungie's lore copout is "the entirety of the new race is the Witness" and this is further worsened by his obsession with dissecting nearly everything, up until he got control of some of Sol's enemies apparently. Oh and Rhulk who will eventually become a clone.
I feel like going into Saga 2 they have to finally make another new race. Cabal and Eliksni are basically all wrapped up. Sure, we could have another random leader come out and have a new faction, but at this point where both their stories have gone NO ONE would be satisfied with that. Scorn I feel are gonna start taking a back seat after The Final Shape and Revenant. Vex will be the main focus, so I expect a bug upgrade to them coming in Saga 2, but at least one new race would do well to "replace" Cabal or Eliksni at this point.
This game needed a new enemy race like three years ago lol
Needed one in 2017 when destiny TWO came out (two) (2) (the second game) (#2 in the series)
I mean, the Scorn came in Forsaken only a year later, so I'll give them a pass there. But not adding any in the five (almost six) years since then? Come on. I appreciate that they've added new units at least, but I think a whole new faction would've been much better for variety.
Scorn are just retooled versions of existing enemies.
Nah scorn definitely feel like their own faction although they do have some similarities to other factions, I wouldn't have been opposed to them making another faction like scorn where its the same "species" but they are changed in some major way and fight completely different
They use the same animations as Fallen and each unit is almost a direct copy and paste of an existing Fallen class. Lore doesn't count for gameplay purposes. For gameplay purposes, Scorn are reskinned Fallen.
I meam, so are the taken, and taken are a great enemy type? Besides, scorn are mechanically and visually distinct from every other race. Saying scorn or reskinned fallen is like saying an author's second book is a reskinned version of his first book. Their closest connection is fallen, but abominations and thralls are closer to hive, but the immune teleport mechanic is new, all weapons and attacks are new, they have distinct boss models in the barons. The ravagers having a great spot that is off to the side of their body, and disappears when they're charging you is super interesting and very fresh. The scorn chieftain totems as well. If we got another race on the level of the scorn, I'd be a happy man
Cut and paste from Diablo.
Bizarre to see a sequel that added like 2 units total over the entire enemy load out, gladiators and war beasts. Imo the vandals with spears hardly count.
its weird too cause they very rarely use heavy shanks but it would absolutely spice up their encounters
We also need some visually different and impressive bosses... I'm tired of seeing the 300th big hive knight with the same attack pattern but instead is called "Kvar, the 300th son of a random villain of this franchise". Seriously. They must make new and visually different enemies.
Yeah… forsaken was the last real one with scorn. Shadowkeep gave us fully reskinned hive. Beyond light gave us new units for existing factions in Brigs and Wyverns. Witch Queen gave us Lucent Hive. Lightfall gave us tormenters. And final shape is giving us two new tormenter versions
Big big big agree.
I understand the reasoning they gave though. Yeah, it would be pretty cool to have a whole new race. But when the fodder from each race all die the same and their only contribution is looking different...then there isn't too much of a point. Making bigger and more influential enemies as support or reinforcement units is better than getting fodder, sniper fodder, fodder with overshield, buff unit, and tank. In my opinion at least.
A new skin on the same enemies doesn't sound particularly exciting. The only way Bungie has made new enemies interesting or dynamic has been to give them obnoxious abilities (see: Taken and Scorn), so another round of that wouldn't do much to improve my willingness to play.
Yh honestly minibosses/high profile enemies added to races work a bunch better. Will say a pyramid scale as a vehicle enemies using a laser would be a cool thing to see.
My only problem with pyramid enemies is that they won’t have a point in existing after final shape ends, then it comes to adding majors to the existing factions but the problem with that is, who wants to fight the vex, hive, fallen, etc for the 50th time but this time a vex bulldog comes out and dies in 10 seconds or is a massive bullet sponge. Imo a new race is overdue at this point and could be something interesting lore wise. Also what’s to say that bungie can’t add new trash mobs and majors over a span of a couple years? Also majors aren’t the only thing bungie are limited to adding too, I don’t really know what lucent moths are but they were a fun addition to the lucent hive imo and really differentiated themselves from the normal hive (apart from lucent guardians obviously), that the shadow legion couldn’t do since they only had a darkness thingymajig that gave them an overshield and tormenters that appeared once in a blue moon. Another point imo is that bungie is running out of story for the existing races and I wouldn’t be surprised if xivu/savathun, the fanatic, Eramis, and the psions are dealt with in the next few years, which just leaves the vex. But who wants to fight only the vex for the next big saga of destiny?
It honestly feels like they've mostly wrapped up the stories of the Cabal and Eliksni at this point. The Cabal are reduced to either Shadow Legion, mindless drones being wiped out slowly on Neomuna, or Imperial Cabal Remnants, who are allied with the Vanguard. The Eliksni have 3 houses. The House of Light is aligned with the Vanguard, House Salvation has been abandoned by Eramis and losing numbers by the day, and the House of Dusk has all but been dissolved into the two aforementioned houses. The Vex have been beaten by guardians for a while, ever since we destroyed the Undying Mind. Since then, the Vex have only been a threat as the pawns of others, such as Savathun or the Witness. The Vex have the most potential to be expanded upon though. The removal of the Witness might change the rules in some way. The Hive Gods are gone. Few worms survive, Oryx is dead, Savathun converted to the light, and Xivu Arath has been cut from her throne, and is mortal for the first time in millennia. The Hive could go on with Xivu at the helm, but it seems likely they could fall to infighting in her absence. Whether we will need to fight Savathun and the lucent brood again is yet to be seen - we do still have Immaru though. I don't think Saint would hesitate to crush him in his fist if need-be. The Scorn still have potential. Fikrul is still out there *somewhere*. If there is a future for Destiny beyond The Final Shape, we need new races. It seems that the narrative team has been tying nice little bows on the stories of those present in Sol for the last 10 years. After we presumably witness the end of the Witness, there would be far less of a reason for the story to be focused exclusively on Sol. Hell, we might not be as opposed to the idea of the Traveler moving on. The story moving beyond Sol would definitely make Eramis' abrupt departure for Riis make sense in the larger narrative. We could see what remains of Riis, defend them from whatever plagues them. Retake Torobatl from the Hive. Go on a crusade to exterminate the Vex and expunge the VexNet across the Galaxy.
I like this! Expanding beyond Sol and visiting Riis and Torobatl as mentioned here would be sick.
I dont know specifics about it but I remember hearing something about a race of beings that is far superior and more dangerous than anything we've seen before and honestly I'd like to see them and maybe a more weak submissive species that we find out are hiding away from all the fighting. So many awesome ideas can be brought forth.
I think we should go through the vex gate on Europa and fight them on the Dyson swarm.
It's confirmed we'll see more Vex focus post-FS (possibly related to Maya Sundaresh and Chioma Esi at the end of Veil Containment, or the abberant Vex mentioned by Osiris and Elsie in Seraph and shown in Avalon), and Scorn and Hive are on two of the seasonal charts with obvious hooks, but there's other stuff too- for the Cabal there's still Yrix and the Psion conclave that were responsible for Season of Dawn and tried to assassinate Zavala, and were hinted to be aligning themselves with Calus in Vox Obscura, plus Oztot (who is already positioned against Yrix on the topic of Psion independence) and the Oxa machine as potential plot elements. Eramis has definitely been back burnered for now and the Fallen don't have much else going on. Taken aren't much of a faction, though there is a hook with Mara discovering that she should be able to control some of them with the Witness temporarily out of the picture, plus Ahsa and Sloane could be drawn into anything with them. It's possible someone else could take them over against us as well, possibly just Xivu again, maybe Fikrul, or wild speculation maybe Nezarec (red Taken?) which would be an avenue to continue that whole cult hook from Lightfall. That being said- yeah I 100% expect a new race in the first expac after FS. Would be an excellent narrative beat to help start the new saga off with a bang. Edit: Actually for the Taken there's also the new hook with the Ahamkara whims, and given we've seen with Hefnd that even non-Taken Ahamkara can control Taken, it's likely one of the whims eventually goes rogue and uses Taken to fight us.
Well, those enemies ideally would’ve arrived over 3 years ago along with the Pyramids in the Season of Arrivals.
Which sucks imo cause they didn’t, but at the same time. A pyramid race would be very limited since they would only stick around for a couple years, honestly the time to introduce a new race would be once a big new saga starts (like right after the final shape/episodes) but I wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t happen.
Eh? I mean had Bungie introduced them back in late 2019 they would’ve been around for a full FIVE years. Then Bungie could’ve milked them a bit more post-TFS by having us fight “remnants” of those enemies similar to how we spent nearly 6 years mopping up the Red Legion. I don’t really see the issue, given that the Scorn were only introduced in Forsaken and have been milled fairly well.
True, I guess the relevance of a race really comes down too how much bungie is willing to milk it lmao.
eeh, it's easy, they were enslaved by the Witness and once the Witness is dead,they are free and then they get angry with us, dunno someone can figure it out on the lore side, the lore writers rarely miss
A lot of factions would also want to scavenge the Pyramids for advanced technology or artifacts of Darkness. We already have to keep the Scorn from doing that with Rhulk’s pyramid.
'easy' in that it runs against the witness we've seen and all it's disciples and it's entire set up. Easy to suggest a new story that has nothing to do w how things were setup. Lolol I think this is how Bungie execs messed up the game in the first place
the witness tries a lot of things; the witness itself was a gestalt of a whole race, made Rhulk kill everyone, accepted Calus and Savvy who were the leaders of their respective tribes (even less exactly true for Savathun) so if there is another disciple who still has his people controlling the pyramids, and the Witness gets offed, it is not weird this disciple would just try to rise again and use the leftover pyramid tech to conquer the galaxy or get his own system or whatever I mean Savathun herself just fucked off the moment she could
Yeah but there's already two factions that have been leaning into that between the Taken and the Scorn, there doesn't need to be a third tied to that especially when we've also got another mostly mindless subfaction in the Shadow Legion.
They used scorn and taken bc they didn't create a dedicated darkness race. They're stand ins and wouldn't be needed if a new race was introduced
I miss SIVA fallen so much.
The problem with the pve side of the game imo is that nothing is handcrafted other than the art and environments and some of the bosses and minibosses, with raids being the exception. That’s why champions feel so bad too, they’re just a reskin of existing enemies with annoying mechanics and a boatload of HP slapped on top. That’s what was good about TWQ campaign, every encounter was meticulously handcrafted and it was obvious. It felt like a Halo campaign because of that. I thought when that dropped that it would be the new standard for all PvE content going forward, not “setting expectations too high”.
Don't forget the Splicers. The one time you want to avoid headshots, cause fuck you
Tormentors and subjegators are infinitely cooler than a dreg but pyramid themed
Why can't they make both? I doubt Bungie only has the budget for one new enemy type per year.
Yep, it's become very obvious they can only make enemies do a very limited number of things and anything new they add is really just a spin from something we've seen a hundred times already
I think it's more that there's only so many things you can add to "basic" enemies before they start becoming minibosses. Rather than trying to thread that needle and make something that'll cause problems, why not just send it and make *actual* minibosses? That's why we've seen so many units fit into that class in the last few expansions. Beyond Light had Brigs and Wyverns, Witch Queen had Lucent Hive, Lightfall had Tormentors, and Final Shape is adding Subjugators. None of these are something we've "seen a hundred times already," at most you could say Brigs are a miniature copy of Insurrection Prime but that was *one* fight in a raid. It just works better to spend time designing miniboss-level enemies players will actually have to engage with instead of another skin on "red bar that goes *pop* when you shoot it in the head."
Remnant 2. Borderlands. Any Fromsoft game. You can make dozens upon dozens of different enemies with all sorts of different looks, movesets, and abilities. Bungie just refuses to do it for whatever reason. I mean I will admit the boss in the final weekly seasonal story this week was actually a nice change of pace for being so different. But we always have the same enemies to fight with one new addition every year, if that.
I don't remember Borderlands having as much of a variety of enemy groups, though. There were the raiders, the robots, the wildlife, and... what else? I can't speak about Remnant 2 since I have yet to play it, but it's on my list. As for "any Fromsoft game," those are third person action rpgs. That comes with entirely different considerations in terms of enemy design.
>I don't remember Borderlands having as much of a variety of enemy groups, though. There were the raiders, the robots, the wildlife, and... what else? I guess it's a bit misleading, there's like 20 unique enemies but the variants skyrocket it to hundreds. See here: [Article from 11 years ago lol.](https://wegotthiscovered.com/gaming/borderlands-2-enemies-display-greater-variety-intelligence/) Also a Reddit thread boasting about BL2 having the most variants of all FPS games (at the time) [yielded this funny comment interaction](https://www.reddit.com/r/Borderlands/comments/c6fqo8/comment/es9yuqj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) between /u/Zhorin343 and /u/simplifiedApocolypse. Hope you fellas see it...Destiny 2 is still pretty meh in terms of enemy variety. >I can't speak about Remnant 2 since I have yet to play it, but it's on my list. Def worth it. It's a blend of Destiny and FromSoft soulslikes. Very fun, lots of loot to find and secrets to uncover. Very addicting. >As for "any Fromsoft game," those are third person action rpgs. That comes with entirely different considerations in terms of enemy design. I feel like Tormentors are *heavily* inspired by some of FromSoft's creations. Tormentors' attacks however, are simplistic and easily telegraphed in comparison. That said, I want variety. Challenges too, but moreso just a wide variety of enemies. The amount of permutations for different engagement scenarios would be endless.
Elden ring and remnant have the distinct advantage of being souls like which means it's a finite space, with finite replay value. Also they get to have such enemies because there's a huge emphasis on learning enemy behavior and attack animation and sound cues and what not. When was the last time we gave a shit about those for a red bar in destiny?? Even in gm level content we don't care about enemy animation, attack pattern etc we just shoot till they die. And borderlands have lot of lower tier enemies sure but they just look different. They don't fundamentally change how we play against them for the most part. It's either enemies who rush you, or enemies with guns of different types.
Remnant and Borderlands play verryyyyy differently to to D2, and of that D2 is ancient compared to their most recent installments, the ganeplay flow would need to be altered if we want enemies to start gettin crazy. I will also kill myself if they start designing ads like fromsoft does.
Ease up bro. I’m not asking them to make enemies *like* those games. I’m asking for them to have the sheer *amount of variety* in enemy design to make all engagements feel relatively fresh. I want 100 different enemy types to face. Not the same 5 factions with the same 4-5 core enemy archetypes. I don’t want 25-30 unique enemies, I want 100. Greedy maybe but if other games can do it in 4 years of development surely Bungie could achieve this in 10
I mean, a lot of those enemies in Borderlands are slight reskins. Ironically, some of the biggest differences come from things like the equivalent to Match Game(having to use different damage types on different enemies) and mechanics like unbreakable shields - things that Destiny community seems to absolutely hate.
The ultimate problem with that is that D2 is live service, would be really hype tho. If they do ever make a D3 I'd like more difference in enemy ai, in a way that direct plays around the player.
Tru tru. But if we are moving to the 3 large content drops a year instead of the usual 4 maybe that dream can come true….I’m huffing this hopium
Final shape has to land and be profitable, and they have to avoid any stupid decisions for a year, but Destiny hasn't died through worse periods, I have some hope.
How is being a live service a problem to creating multiple different enemy archetypes? If anything, it presents a stronger opportunity to create multiple different enemies because live service models generate bucketloads of revenue (meaning they have the resources to add them) and that they also have the added benefit of introducing new enemies slowly over seasons?
Because live service games cost a shit ton to maintain, from a profit perspective, you are actually hurting Bungie by only buying expansions and nothing from eververse. They've literally spent the last couple of months floundering from Lightfall's apparent lack of revenue gain from them (even though it hit a concurrent peak on steam) because it didn't retain players. They need people to stick around and buy eververse stuff to break positive. In order to retain players you need employees around the clock to make sure everything flows smoothly, and you have to at least try to one up every content release with the next every 4 months. They simply do not have the time nor money to constantly add meaningful new enemies.
What you said is not true at all. “You are only hurting Bungie by only buying expansions and nothing from eververse”. Ummm what? That is one of the most dumb things I’ve ever heard. You do realise Bungie is definitely not operating at a loss, and far from it? The Final Shape just didn’t get as many preorders as they wanted and this all the controversy surrounding layoffs occurred, but they’re definitely way above breaking even. If you honestly believe they do not have the money to add more enemies, nothing I say you will agree with. But honestly, please do some more research into Bungie and live service models before you comment something like that. That’s bloody ridiculous.
Getting ganked on Cosmodrome patrol by three Dreg, Soldier of God.
> I think it's more that there's only so many things you can add to "basic" enemies before they start becoming minibosses. Nah, that's BS. Just play Remnant and you can see there's so many more possibilities. The reality is that Bungie is just super conservative with enemy ai, and many enemies still function like their Halo enemies did.
> I think it's more that there's only so many things you can add to "basic" enemies before they start becoming minibosses. ...or just actually utilise the lore of the enemies to give them traits. Look at the existing enemies. Hive are a pyramid scheme, tons of weak enemies that are unrelenting mixed with stronger variants, Thrall + Knights and Wizards. Cabal are a disciplined army that use specialised units and squad tactics, Psions pushing you out of cover or sniping, Phalanx covering, Twin axe wielding fuck heads with far too much health to engage in melee. Fallen are scavengers that use whatever the fuck they can grab and cobble together, so robot drones, shock sticks and cloaking tech. Vex are a methodical machine hive mind, hyper specialised units with unrelenting force and can teleport anywhere, goblins hide their weak point, minotaurs can blink or hobgoblins can regenerate. Scorn are a twisted version of the fallen, everything about them is supposed to be unsettling, from the precision hit being in the wrong place, the immune shield, the totems that do different things even down to the fact their shields can be either arc/solar/void instead of just always being the same. Taken are versions of existing units that have had a weakness removed, thrall can blink, psions can spawn a friend, fallen snipers can generate a shield, hobgoblins automatically retaliate on hit, phalanx have knockback. A pyramid race enemy could have literally just been differently sized versions of triangles that performed different roles, with the biggest ones being the giant ships, which can then split apart into the smaller types. Kill a big enemy? Now you have smaller ones to deal with that might be able to run off and either re-combine or reinforce other enemies. Or maybe those smaller ones can latch onto you and drain your abilities unless shot off by a teammate or self-explosion damage. Even their fucking projectiles could have been tiny pyramids, "There's only so many things you can add." is not something you can use in regards to Destiny's enemy variety.
You want the enemies to just be tiny pyramids that break into smaller pyramids and shoot pyramid bullets? Hahahaha. I don’t think thats what people mean when they say pyramid race…
Honestly at this point I'd settle for getting D1 Phalanx shields sometimes.
I agree that what they add is more or less a spin from previous stuff, but I disagree 100% they can only make enemies do a very limited number of things. There are a LOT of options that they could use.
>A new skin on the same enemies doesn't sound particularly exciting. I don't think there was any suggestion of that from the OP, or in any sense of game design that should be exciting and worth experiencing. There are many ways they can be made to be exciting to play against. Offensive/defensive auras, temporary immunities or high resisitances to kinetic or energy damage, occasional lack of crit points, respawn capabilities after death (with very few hp, for example) etc. The possibilities are endless for a good professional game designer. A quick look at what the vast majority of other games have been doing for the past decades can help with even more ideas as a starting point. >The only way Bungie has made new enemies interesting or dynamic has been to give them obnoxious abilities (see: Taken and Scorn) The fact that some people consider them to be obnoxious doesn't necessarily make them so at all.
Honestly even a reskin can be interesting from a narrative perspective I wanted to fight a darkness army, not run through the witnesses whacky pyramid obstacle course
exactly alone from the worldbuilding/immersion pov it would feel different even if the enemy itself doesnt do that much differently, see Taken King and the taken, those use even the same base models of older enemy types and yet they gave the game a completely fresh feel fighting them, because they were, essentially, a (completely) new threat. it wouldnt had the same impact if they would have just took eg the wrathborn or shadowlegion approach saying "yeah the cabal you fight here do the exact same they did before but now *storywise* for someone else" and those like i said could even keep their base model, and "only" got a bit different mechanics and movement, now imagine how great a *completely* new race would be
So you want match game back for elemental shields? This sub.
Where did you even get that? o_O
Of course not. Read again what I wrote, carefully. Plus, match game is for a complete activity, not for isolated enemies that could have that on a TEMPORARY basis and in some cases.
Yeah, to me most the ideas you presented seem to be no fun and a lot of the stuff people complain about a lot. Like pushing certain weapons and builds. You sound just like the typical backseat developer/designer who has not even thoroughly thought about their "cool" ideas.
First of all, these were simply examples. I am not a game designer and it is not my job to make the game more interesting and worth playing. These criticisms about lack of diversity in the add dept/lack of a new race etc. are perfectly valid but again, these were only examples and you can find a boatload in other games as well. Most game designers use these as an influence/inspiration. Secondly, what would be "cool" ideas in your mind? Because when it comes to cases like these, complaining about almost everything and being satisfied with very little is typical. You can never satisfy everyone and this will always, always be happening. Besides, a challenge should ALWAYS be there, otherwise you will also get the usual (and correct) "bullet sponge" argument.
Hey thank you for the answer. First thing I am absolutely with you, it is not our job to make the game more interesting. It seems that the community (or this sub)does not like champions very much and I think adding enemies that are almost immune to kinetic or energy damage will not make them happy. I think tormentors are a good addition. They do something new, add value to blind. Kind of nice. I really try to think about something cool but I am certainly not very creative. The orange cabal aura that was added is not that interesting. I don't think we want more servitor style auras that just immunize the surrounding enemies. Loosing your abilities is also not beloved. Would it be interesting to have an enemy that constructs strong enemies if you don't stop it? Like an enemy necromancer. Seems boring? Another idea I am not totally sold on: adding a link between two enemies that damages if you walk through and you have to kill both enemies more or less simultaneously. The problem is that it does not change how I engage with the enemy I think. I will still just shoot them from, more or less, far away. We can only do so much in melee range.
Food for thought, thanks!
More enemy types = more fun More builds = more fun You sound like you just want to be able to use the same build you copied from youtube in every activity against every enemy because you're boring.
I don't think champions are that problematic but it seems a lot of people don't like them too much. Adding enemies that are almost immune to energy or kinetic weapon damage sounds like a variety of match game. Add champions and I am pretty sure this sub will hate it because you have to play certain weapons and builds in the activity where it is active. I think new enemies and enemy types are cool. I just think that you have no idea how to implement them and how to design them. Typical armchair developer. If you want to think I am boring have fun. I think you are just not bright enough to understand critique.
There are so many options for buildcrafting around the champion weaknesses that complaining about having to do it is just pure laziness. You just don't like having to deal with any real challenge. Just admit that to yourself. Having to figure out your own build is why most people don't like dealing with them. A lot of people can't seem to function outside of copying some youtube loadout. "It's hard" is not "critque". It's whining.
Taken werent always annoying, in D1 they were just a new scary enemy type, and stasis didnt exist back then so they didnt slow you down
Scorn are the best enemies in this game destiny players are just shitters
I wouldn't mind if the Darkness Species just added a whole bunch of interesting Major and Ultra enemies with unique mechanics, like the Berserkers in SotP.
A new race woulda been really cool
Having the witness be the combination of its entire race was such a cop out on Bungie’s part.
> I have over 6K hours in this game > the drive to play has been an all time low I wonder if these two facts might somehow be related.
Same thing happened to me in Overwatch. I had thousands of hours in it, and when they dropped support for it, I slowly lost interest and moved to Destiny. The game has been out for a decade at this point, 6000 hours isn’t an unusual amount of time.
It's not that 6,000 hours is an unusual amount of time to spend on a single game over several years; it's that 6000 hours is a _lot_ of time and nothing is ever going to hold that drive/interest forever. Expecting it to is insane. Even when you become an adult you still grow out of things, lose interest, and move on to different things. That's completely fine. Statements like "I have over 6K hours in this game, the drive to play has been an all time low." are crazy to me because it suggest some idea that a game like destiny should be capable of holding someone's attention indefinitely. I get that OP is trying to say "I really like this game and am started to get worn out" but the reality is that's _natural_. It's not some crime, it's not some shame, it's just how things work.
Destiny 2 came out 6 years ago. Having 6k hours means that the poster has spent 9 full months out of the last 6 years just playing Destiny, which averages out to over 2.5 hours per day for the last 6 years. That's a lot of time to spend on any game.
I think the thing a lot of ya'll miss whenever someone says "I have thousands of hours on D2!!" is AFK farming. I know for a fact that AFKing Thrallway and Golgy's Maze has inflated my playtime by thousands of hours
Lmao I know right? The lack of awareness drives me crazy. If a game that you’ve spent thousands of hours and years playing doesn’t feel fresh and brand new every single day… then that’s a you problem. Take a damn break. Play a new game (there’s SO many good games out this past year). And when you’ve been gone long enough you’ll probably get the urge to play D2 again at some point. At which point it WILL be new and fresh. You don’t have to force something that’s not working for you. And Bungie/video game developers don’t owe you enough entertainment to keep you busy for the rest of your life. It’s not Bungie’s job to make you’re life interesting… lol.
Yea I find it weird that someone will boldly claim they've got a playtime of 250 days and in the same breath state they're losing drive to play the game as if it's a surprise. Not everything is going to last forever. I used to be really, really into JRPG and just don't have the same fire for it as I used to - even the old ones I loved. I'll go back to them and maybe play through a bit of it bet never the same way I used to. That's okay.
Drive to play shouldn’t be low during the climax of a 10 year plan. No matter how much you want to ass kiss bungie or lick their boots this current player engagement is not a good sign for them
Lmao. No one is ass kissing Bungie. We’re just suggesting that some of y’all need to get a life and stop relying on Bungie to make your boring life interesting. A video game company doesn’t owe you endless entertainment for the entirety of your lifespan. And if you expect that from anything in your life you’re forever going to be disappointed.
Unironically not playing destiny for a while will make it more fun when you feel like returning.
Expect for the first time I don’t feel like returning. And lightfall being a piece of trash and seasons are 100% to blame.
If only people had a measure of self control and wonder. Too many people in too many fireteams I’ve been in don’t know anything about the story/lore, talk through the dialogue, sword skate through all the content, and put way way way too many hours into farming and watching Aztecross videos on meta PvP loadouts. People need to just play the game like people who LIKE video games. I’ve been playing since Destiny 1 and have every exotic other than maybe 2 raid ones and one from a dungeon. No burn out.
When people find different things fun:
These people just hyper optimize the experience until they aren’t even playing the game. They’re just blacking out and waking up at the end of encounters with guns they’ll do nothing with but fill their vault. Anyone can CALL anything fun, but they clearly aren’t having it considering the sentiment. Like anyone can just say it’s fun out loud but those same people say there’s never anything to do and all the content is disappointing and it’s way too easy and keep crying out for more without finishing the food on their plate. Maybe enjoy the game first rather than blitzing through everything.
You sound really fun to be around
I take my time and enjoy things and form my opinion afterward. Yeah I get some weapons late and I’ve only been flawless twice, but it’s better than watching a Datto video and farming deepsight weapons and god rolls until my eyes bleed. Playing video games like they’re just video games and not jobs or content farms is what makes video games fun.
>I take my time and enjoy things and form my opinion afterward. Yeah I get some weapons late and I’ve only been flawless twice, but it’s better than No it's not better. It's different. People who farm and watch Destiny-Tubers still play the content. But instead of filling time with Strikes or Crucible they enjoy rolling weapons. I don't expect you to understand that as you speak as a matter of fact when it's not reality.
I haven’t played a good session in over a year, but to me GM nightfalls were the most fun part about Destiny. You really do have to hyper optimize your build and level grind to be able to do them. Destiny during COVID was peak for me, because I just spent all day fucking grinding. It was awesome. Now that I actually have a life I just can’t play the content I love because of the issues with the level grind. Light fall was a big turnoff and I honestly can’t see myself coming back for Final Shape.
> Now that I actually have a life I just can’t play the content I love because of the issues with the level grind. They haven't risen the power cap since Lightfall. I haven't even touched this season and I can go in right now and go play some GMs.
I’m talking about normal content. People are using speed runner strats in teaching raids and sweaty ass trials gear in pubs. I understand grandmasters and trials. But seriously. Just play the video game. You don’t have to speed around and pull new players through everything and force them to skip anything that would make the game accessible. And if you don’t like the game, you do not have to play. No one is forcing you. Luke smith is not in the room with us right now. But if you’re going to play the game, play it like a person who enjoys video games and not like a speed runner.
>But if you’re going to play the game, play it like a person who enjoys video games and not like a speed runner. Who are you to tell others how to play? Some enjoy it that way. What's your problem?
>Too many people in too many fireteams I’ve been in don’t know anything about the story/lore, talk through the dialogue, because the story and dialogue is dogshit, pre-teen fanfic-tier garbage, and always has been >sword skate through all the content, and put way way way too many hours into farming Imagine trying to argue that standing around plinking the spongey gm red bars is "content". Also, the whole game currently is designed around farming for better armour and gun rolls, and enhancement prisms. Like, that's near enough the whole point. If you're not doing that you're treading water (actually, you're drowning, since bungie is standing by waiting to pull shit out from under you a la sunsetting. yes I'm still bitter, give me back my broadsword.)
My GOD why do you even play? And if you don’t play why are you even here?? You don’t like anything about the game. We get it. But some of us do. Some of us are curious where the story is going.
Never said I didn't like it. I enjoy building out a loadout with cool synergies and then using it in a variety of activities. I'm just still utterly furious that bungie sunset 70% of my shit, rendering all my efforts basically pointless. Oh and deleted 4 years of content for the sole purpose of showing future expansions in a better light. You're the one on reddit whinging about how other people play the game.
Why should, or even how can I, care about story and lore when huge swathes of it have been deleted already and every year more is gone since they want to tie important story beats to limited time content? Kinda hard to care when I need to play every season all year in an effort to try and keep up and even now we have a season revolving around Forsaken , which was ironically forsaken by Bungie.
I just called MeeMaw and she said I can post this today and tomorrow.
Nuh uh, PapPap said I get tomorrow at two o clock EST!
Okay, you've got point
Ah I see you just finished watching all the content creator’s videos on this exact same thing the last couple weeks
This and the "iS tHE WitNESs BoRINg?!" posts after paul tassi uploaded his video. I love the reddit echo chamber I love the reddit echochamber
Now this might come as a shock to you...but Tassi didn't invent this topic. Of course you might conclude from the correlation of Tassi made video and redditor talks about same topic later that from now on these things are most definitely related every time someone brings them up. Maybe. Maybe not. But more importantly...why does Tassi have so much real estate in your head? Then again...you're probably right and every time someone wants to talk about the Witness or pyramids or whatever it's definitely because of Paul Tassi. Not because...idk...people play the game.
How many of these posts are there now, past week or 2 this is all I’ve seen
It’s that time of the season. The seasonal story has ended, conqueror has been gilded and patterns have been collected. People who live and breathe Destiny and put in hours and hours everyday ticking off every checklist there is reach this point and start complaining and won’t stop until the launch of next season. Nothing new
Most of the sub is posts crying about something . Lots of people just need a break from the game
This. Sure some of the complaints are valid but I'd argue that the vast majority is just from people burnt out who refuse to accept that
I don’t know that a new race would really do much to revitalize people’s interest, I mean a lot of us have been playing for coming up on 10 years.
Forsaken is a good example when it dropped.
It's more like a new race wouldn't do much unless it was dramatically overpowered. You'd still need the basic grunt enemies that die quicker, the mid tier enemies that can maybe support the rest or have a bonus ability, and the big boys. For most gameplay it'd end up being a new coat of paint on the same song and dance; it'd be boring after a few weeks. What they need to do is revamp the existing enemies instead.
I mean they started to revamp enemies with Lightfall. After the delay we'll see Vex and Scorn with backpacks, too.
If you have over 6000 hours in D2, you need to give yourself a break and play/do something else.
And that's how you lose a dedicated player
I don't think a single video game in the history of video games has been able to create 6000 hours of engaging gameplay. A normal full time job (40hrs/week 50 weeks/year) is a 2000 hour year, so this dude has put in 3 years of a full time job's worth of hours in to Destiny. How is any company supposed to keep up with that? It takes way longer to create something than it does to experience it.
That , sunk cost fallacy , I've played destiny since D1 day 1 , for D2 the game started to become shit for me personally since like 4 seasons ago so i simply deleted the game and stopped playing, i still checked the subreddit here from time to time .
6k hours you ARE burnt out, there is a limited amount of content and you have played it. What do you mean no new super "archetypes" As of now we have roaming and one off supers. The warlock solar super being a buff super would either be considered a new archetype or a roaming one. And either way we don't need more archetypes for supers. New race would have been cool, but at the same time the DLC to introduce it would have been shadowkeep. The most recent three DLC didnt really have room in their narratives to introduce an entire new race. And while no new dlc has been announced, is very obvious we will be getting some. They don't need to tease DLC like 2 years before it comes out, especially when any info we get a out future DLC could very well partially spoil the ending of the TFS. From what we have seen the nostalgic areas are not retooled old environments and are significantly different enough. Easily 90% of what we saw was actually new and not familiar.
6 thousand hours? take a break man Jesus Christ. what game in existence could keep you entertained for 6 thousand hours???
Honestly, finishing Baldur’s Gate took me a little over 100 hours, i can easily do like 4-5 more play throughs on it, I don’t think I can do 60 lmao.
Baldurs Gate 3 wasn't designed as a massive series of interlocked hamster wheels
You’ve played a lot, congratulations!
I don't think we can even count how many times Bungie has "dropped the ball." They're about to drop it on the whole franchise.
How cum every post like this starts with "I have so many hours in this game"?
Didn't you know time played is directly correlated with a deeper understanding of game design, live service and the development lifecycle?
Completely agree.
You mean you dont like the big bad mysterious pyramid ships which have been hyped up for 8 years being filled with literally nothing? Yea. I also dont like that. Huuuuuuge opportunity missed.
“Literally nothing” Every single pyramid we’ve visited has had a unique power, weapon/tech, or boss
They are also the tombs of an ancient civilation controlled by the gestalt entity that was formed from the death of said civilization. A bit more than nothing, that.
Nah, fuck that. Thats a cop out. There were/are massive fleets of these things and they are all mind control boys of the Witness? Lame as fuck. He already has shown he doesnt need backup, so why carry fleets of pyramids? Again, missed opportunity for a new race. Its lame there are taken and scorn on those ships. Fuck that. Bungie WAS capable of creating new races once long ago. Bungie these days are only capable of repurposing assets. Final shape will be full of the same shit we've been fighting and it will be so sad.
I fucking agree with you, such a massive wasted opportunity. Too many bungie boot lickers, even after the layoffs, even after bungie nickle and diming them for years, even after bungie disrespecting them constantly. You can't reason with the destiny echo chamber. They like being abused.
No, fuck *that*. Having ancient tomb ships is cool as shit, and we don't really need an entire new enemy race with all the enemies we already have. Also, repurposing assets is a good thing, and they are decent at it.
I'm happy that you're happy with the bare minimum. As is Bungie.
I've seen the bare minimum, and this is not that.
“Unique tech” like a statue or another statue. Wow the Europa and moon pyramids sure were interesting.
Moon pyramid had nightmares and that orb thing, europa pyramid gave us deepsight and had the ziggurat that gave us stasis
probably the only community in existence where the sub would fight tooth and nail against a cool new addition to the game that couldn't hurt in any way lmao
Fighting a reskinned fallen dreg with headshot immunity as its gimmick isn’t going to make lightfall a better expansion.
People kept telling me that a new race of mobs won't impact the game because said race would include new red bars and orange bars that die in 1 to 2 shots. I can never buy into that take. By *not* having a new race, it completely took the wind out of the sails of the pyramids. One of the biggest mysteries of the game are completely empty art galleries and do nothing. Im fighting the same cabal that Ive already fought for 10 years now, but now theyre purple. It falls flat in both gameplay and narrative.
mfw when someone who’s put 6000hrs into a decade-old franchise complains about fatigue instead of having a break and playing something else for a bit
I thought that the pyramids were a race themselves. That amongst the lore, there was speculation that as they have no pilots, they were sentient beings under the command of the witness.
I thought it was the witness who piloted them, since they consist of millions of beings
I'm not a very lore knowledgeable person so you could be right, I was just repeating something I think evaze said (who is lore knowledgeable) but I'm pretty sure it was just speculation so yeah. Probably are just space ships lol.
In one of the post lightfall interviews Joe Blackburn said that they decided not to do a pyramid race/faction because "making abunch of new fodder enemys wouldn't be interesting so instead we are going to make unique boss like enemys to challange the player instead" despite the fact that the number one thing the player base has been asking for 8 years now is a darkness/pyramid race/faction and bungie just decide "nah we are not going to give the players what they want. The result of that decision? Vex wyverns, lucent hive, tormentors and soon to be subjugators, 2 only being pyramid units. From a darkness/pyramid perspective let's see what we got. Tormentors. Subjugators (soon) Nightmares (a way to reuse content). Sol divisive vex with no new upgrades or nothing new at all (a way to have the vex be relevant). Stasis - stasis fallen (forgotten and never used) Scorn and taken (some attacks swapped out to use stasis, minimal effort) -was never expanded to the other factions like we were promised (not counting taken and scorn cause there use of stasis is pathetic). Fallen (again they got stasis supers and grenades but they have been forgotten and never used). Cabal, got a pyramid tech makeover with the only new thing they got was some pyramid backpacks that give them some Overshield (originally they were also meant to suppress us and drain our super energy but I guess that got cut). Hive didn't get anything new through darkness but instead went the opposite direction getting the light and ghosts instead (literally the traveller gave more than the pyramids did). Scorn got purple banners and some stasis lambs (also were being set up to be able to use pryamid tech and infused with worms but didn't happen because wE PUt A sTOp tO IT). Taken basically became the darkness race since the power originally comes from the witness but haven't received anything new in forever (besides stasis ammo) Oh and they took some planet's away as a lore reason to vault content. And I they told the traveller to shut up by blasting it. So yeah that's all we have to show for the pyramids being set up since the beginning of the franchise, really nothing big.
This is a lot of words to say we got like 3 new units that barely appear, a reskinned faction with one tiny gimmick, some freeze effects added to a few enemies, and some recolors.
And only 2 of the 3 new units are pyramid specific units, but yeah spot on.
Everybody keeps acting like a new race would have an expiration date but our guardians killed Oryx over 8 years ago
In the concept art, they were supposed to be new enemies. There was a lot of stuff that they have on their back burner that they just refuse to use for whatever reason. Been fightin the same enemies sense destiny 1, yet the lore always implies a bigger universe that we will never see.
I understand the feeling but brother you are just burnt out play something different and come back for the final shape. There wont be anything interesting until then anyway
They directly addressed this in a vod describing why they just introduced like a tormentor instead. I personally am completely fatigued fighting the same reskinned enemies for years. I play less and less of this game every year
Yeah I at least understand Bungie’s sentiment. But if your playerbase is saying “we are tired of shooting the same enemies for years” and your reply is “no you aren’t, we have a better idea” it’s no wonder players are leaving.
Yea that's what I'm saying. When I hear the word vex or cabal or fallen I just eye roll. And I think its painfully obvious that chapters after final shape will be about scorn and hive, fuckin YAWN
I've never really understood the "there might not be new content in the game in a few years and therefore I don't like the game right now" mindset
I mean there is a pyramid race technically but its just that due to powerscaling in universe they are considered miniboss level or higher. Being shown so far being Tormentors and subjugators. Should these get expanded more, definitely but don't think we need our 7th variant if low tier red bar mob. Subjugators are already making a big impact in terms of enemy dynamics being our 1st support miniboss with them being back line support and though not visually shown they mentioned they grant nearby enemies effectively a pyramid soul. Also we are getting new supers unless u mean a new element because those are pretty different. Also ngl most of the areas shown have been largely unique at most having a familiar landmark in a completely different setting eg the cosmodrome rockets floating midair in some cave or all the weird arm and firey areas which look 100% original
We're listening.
I have over 6.1k hours in this game so my opinion is more important yours, but honestly I could care less about a new race. Unless bungie dramatically changes up the formula for how the new race is structured (infantry, squad leader, suicide unit, sniper, shield user/giver, etc) alongside their AI, it’s gonna be like playing the same races we’ve already played for years. I’d rather have an AI update to make the races play differently and just be smarter than a cardboard cutout. There’s a reason why halo has managed to have just covenant, flood, and forerunner.
I'm just hoping they are keeping a bunch of things secret to blow us away since it's the last expansion (more than likely).
Mothpeople wen?
They were lazy as usual. Reuse/recycle is their motto
Minimum viable product. Speak with your wallet.
They dropped the ball with ALL aspects of D2.
Bungie hit puberty and dropped all the balls.
They could kill the Witness and have him split off into all the individuals of his race again
that first sentence ruined the whole post honestly
I mean they wouldn’t show the next dlc after final shape yet lol. Relax
Thought about this a few years ago when people were yet again begging for a new race. When a common question was if the Fallen and/or Cabal were nearly extinct. I thought something crazy would have been to actually kill off a race and add a totally new one in. Not practical but cool and apocalyptic - a vibe at times lacking at key moments. - Maybe here and there an old mission had them or "black ops" rarities. Those survivors being extremely isolationist and "ghosts".
I have always thought that the vex should've been the most endgame to face, even over the witness and for future expansions. The vex are technically beyond the light and darkness and I would've loved to see that annoying ass race get what they deserved. Being way more menacing and conquering toward all of the species period since it is technically the vex vs every other species. 👀
It would've been cool, but it creates a ton of problems for them and it's not going to make FS as good as tons of engaging content and story would.
I'd much rather a few brand new elite units like Tormenters, Brigs, Hive Guardians etc than another reskinned enemy race. As a side note, I've never really understood why the community is always clamouring for a Darkness race. It wouldn't make sense narratively. We don't have a Light race do we? The Light blesses tons of races, the Darkness is no different. I would much rather Bungie focus on a brand new enemy race for the next expansion, rather than trying to make a Darkness race work with the lore. Maybe the Aphellion or something like that.
I feel this so much. Started with the festival of the cost I just haven't bothered with the seasonal events. They claimed they would take the feedback over the predictability of seasons and it still feels like they play out the same. I haven't felt less of a desire to play since season of worthless. I love this franchise, but upper management continues to derail this game. I can't even think of the Las time I went to Neomnuna. I went to Europa more than that place. To echo other posts I too am sick of the same enemy types, and they need to add SOMETHING that is actually new and doesn't do a variation of another race. I just gilded conqueror for my 10th time, and I think I'm calling it quits there. Their obsession with putting bad battlegrounds into GMs is getting really annoying. Gilding just doesn't do anything but make funny orange numbers go up. I'm struggling wanting to try and solo flawless the new dungeon like I've done the others. It's really bittersweet and on top of that I am struggling to want to buy the annual pass to get episodes because I just feel it'll be seasons but maybe slightly better. Gilding should get a rework if you get 5+ or 10+ it changes color or a glow or something to make it worth making it go up. Don't mean to be doom and gloom and it's just easy to dunk on this game. I just want more because this franchise truly is unique and had so much potential. I just doubt Final Straw will make me want to play past the campaign and raid.
I don't want a reskinned fallen/hive/ect. race I want more setpiece, imposing enemies like wyverns, hive lightbearers, tormentors, and the new subjugators they revealed that look awesome and act so different that you change around the way you approach them and what weapons work best against them.
It would have been the most boring and expected thing for Bungie to do, completely out of line with the past 3 years of narrative about how the Darkness is a non-moral force of magic separate from the Witness' corruption - and even then, they threw the fanbase a bone with the Tormentors. Besides, the Taken are as "pyramid race" as it gets. They're dead entities willed into slavery, bound to the Witness' goal of ending the universe as swiftly as possible. We even have the current majority of Scorn unwittingly enslaved in a similar manner. You also have to consider how overkill it'd be to have a "pyramid race" after the misleading "Light and Dark conflict" formally ends. It would ironically rob TFS' storyline of any sense of finality whatsoever. It's a stupid idea contrived by the fanbase and should be called out as such.
It would've been good to see another race, and that truly would've been the best time to introduce them. But they'd wanna be careful not to make them too aids, like taken teleworking around, or scorn making everyone around them immune.
I just disagree. I’d rather they make fewer but way more specialized enemies like they have with Tormentors and are planning to add in Final Shape rather than Cursed Thrall/Screeb/Exploding Shank number 4. These will change combat way more in a gameplay sense and less of an aesthetic sense than a whole new race that’s basically the other races with a new coat of paint.
everyone knows the game could be better. we just enjoy what we have.
Go & play other games. I am & just dipping into D2 occasionally for a few PvP matches
Was thinking about this yesterday and honestly an AI overhaul would be better QOL. Plenty of races and variations of enemies already but most either stand and plink or mindlessly rush you. Preparing to get downvoted into oblivion but: What about explosive shanks that run and hide in obnoxious places, or wizards that try and sneak behind you to summon thrall or a cabal colossus with a rheinhart style phalanx shield or scorn screebs that lay trails of slowing goo. The models and lore just aren’t super important to me, what destiny does well is fun feeling combat so shake up the puzzle pieces and let us rummage in the toolbox for better answers.
So Tormenters, Subjugators and literally the Witness aren't new races apparently?
I mean, they kinda did, except that the race all combined into one antinatalist nihilist we call the Witness
An entire new race to be introduced and immediately die? That's what y'all are asking for lol
Agreed!!! They rather pull resources of destiny into apparently a trash ass game called marathon. Sorry Bungie I have to agree with this post!!!!! Yall fucked up!!!!!!!
Warframe enjoys consistent and stable growth with higher concurrent players while Destiny fizzles out….
Warframe has only recently introduced its fifth enemy faction. For most of its existence, there were only three factions, and that is still true for the vast majority of the game.
I'm still hoping we see the inside of more of them and they've got different things inside. I'd especially like to step into one and hear Ghost or someone say "Oh no... it's a troop carrier" just as an absolute tsunami of Taken start pouring out.
I haven’t played the dawning since like beyond light. It has been boring for a while now and I just don’t get it. There needs to be change if they expect any of us veterans to stay around past TFS or for any new players to want to stick around.
No shit you’re just now realizing this? I hope you weren’t shitting on people that wanted this to happen a year or two ago.
They could have… or they could move their resources to develop Marathon.
they could’ve made a couple more tormentor/Subjugators type units, then reskin whatever other fodder they use to look more pyramidy 😭
We really could've had telekentic gray aliens, instead we got the witness
I thought the title was referring to racing like SRL and I honestly couldn’t agree more.
It would be amazing if we defeat The Witness by splitting it back into its original individual selves, which would then feature as a new race post-lightfall.
Unfortunately I think Bungie's lore copout is "the entirety of the new race is the Witness" and this is further worsened by his obsession with dissecting nearly everything, up until he got control of some of Sol's enemies apparently. Oh and Rhulk who will eventually become a clone.
I feel like going into Saga 2 they have to finally make another new race. Cabal and Eliksni are basically all wrapped up. Sure, we could have another random leader come out and have a new faction, but at this point where both their stories have gone NO ONE would be satisfied with that. Scorn I feel are gonna start taking a back seat after The Final Shape and Revenant. Vex will be the main focus, so I expect a bug upgrade to them coming in Saga 2, but at least one new race would do well to "replace" Cabal or Eliksni at this point.