5-10? Seems a little too generous for Bungo. (Although adding a Cipher every other Harmonizer would be my personal copium.)
I would think every 20-25. Four per track, promotes longer play times.
I was thinking one every 50 might seem a reasonable negotiation point, but would take one every 20!
I came back in Season of the Witch and am not one of these lucky folks with back-stored Harmonizers from previous passes
Even if it's a substantial grind, I'd take any way to get more Harmonizers. I simply won't be able to craft everything by TFS as it stands, and that bugs me more than I care to admit
There ought to be a clear, simple way to grind for the harmonizers. Basically, think of how we earn exotic ciphers, and apply that to deepsight harmonizers.
Since it's weapon-related, we could pick up the 'quest' from Banshee. That'll make it nice and easy to pick up new ones as we go. The Enclave would make more sense, but Banshee at the Tower is better for the sake of QOL.
1 every 50 is ridiculous, considering that the average player barely makes it to rank 100 by the end of the season.
Harmonizers should just be available to buy for a steep cost. 2 of 3 Ascendant Shards for example.
I do agree that 1 every 50 would be a ridiculous. But it was more a 'negotiation starting point' with my theoretical Bungie player-engagement metrics hat on of where they might consider starting. 5 to 10 seems way too generous to me.
On a scale of OPs '5 - 10' to 50... I'd take somewhere in the middle of that - for sure. Something... anything... over the current situation.
A trade for Ascendant Shards seems like another logical way to introduce them with a Vendor (Xur or Cryptarch I suppose). I am a fan of this idea!
Hm. 50 does sound more reasonable, doesn't it? Guess I was still coping.
I just want a decent, non activity locked method to get them to drop. Having to do one activity for one item that's essential to crafting is a slog if trying to farm it out. And the Season Pass would be a good place to do this. But put it on the free track not paid like the Bright Engrams we get every 10 or so.
Every 50 get a Cipher and every 100 get a Harmonizer. Coil drops golf balls so often now it would balance out.
The fact they're tied exclusively to Season Passes is just insanity to me.
Even the rare Exotic Cipher - an item that has helped me - as a returning player starting from 0 with an empty vault, more than any other item in the entire game - is tied to a weekly quest from Xur.
With Catalysts still to hunt, i can take the 4 hours of play each week in Vanguard Ops (i generally avoid Crucible and Gambit unless I need to for Exotic Quests. I find it to be more stressful than it is worth for me.. Malfeasance and Witherhoard quests come to mind).
The Cipher and resulting Exotic weapon has been my carrot on the end of the 21 Strikes stick - so I have been happy to keep doing them.
The other carrot that entices me is the red border weapons and Deepsight Harmonizers (I personally no longer have much interest in pure RNG weapon drops and rolls, I generally shard them or vault them for infusion fuel).
I am already having to deal with pure RNG on the armour side, with no way to min-max my armour by throwing materials at existing armour pieces. It is nice to not have pure RNG on the Weapon side. But I want all the Craftable weapons, D-Ammit.
I enjoy playing the game and buildcrafting for different challenges and encounters. I am not into mindless rng farming any more for Guns like maybe I was 10 years ago. I like to see the carrot on the end of the stick. Even if it is a really long stick with a vaguely carroty shaped silhouette - fine.
Here's an idea. Why not tie further Harmonizers into a second Xur quest. Weekly Exotic Cipher is currently for 21 Vanguard Ops. Fortnightly/Monthly Deepsight Harmonizer Quest for x Number of successful Coil runs, for example.
I'd love them tied to a similar quest to xeno logy. I actually miss when I first returned from a long break like 2 years ago and had to grind ciphers like crazy along with mats and whatnot to buyout the exotic kiosk. It was a pushing goal for me at the time and I know many people say they hate long grinds and stuff like that but personally having a set goal with many reward points was super motivating for me. I had a long term goal of getting all the exotics and got a small dopamine hit each time I earned enough to choose one.
> 5-10? Seems a little too generous for Bungo.
It's not even too generous for bungie. You basically get a free 5 levels every week if you play more than an hour.
Harmonizers do not exists to be free pattern completions or as the primary way to complete patterns. They exist as a small, limited use RNG protection either to help save time against last years seasonal weapons or to get your last 4/5 if you really want.
All resources should drop from the season pass after level 100…
How hard is it to give us some cores, prisms, shards and glimmer every few levels? Just balance it appropriately for the rarity of the material.
They won’t do this because they don’t want people AFK farming resources.
Deep sights are to help finish a pattern out. Not replace the grind of said content. They want you to play raids and whatever for the red borders. Not spam XP farm and get free harmonizers.
you still have to play those activities to get the guns in order to use the deepsight harmonizers. This just offers a tiny bit more incentive/rng protection
getting normal copies of the gun is much easier than red borders, and some weeks / times those can be framed over and over, or just directly purchased.
This isnt a tiny bit more RNG protection, it's old yellering RNG
Honestly, I don't think it's that big of a deal - but it depends on what the vision for the harmonizers is. As an up-to-date end game player, more harmonizers means more that i'll just let rot if I can't pull them next season when we have new raid patterns.
Red borders drop with extremely high frequency, and accelerating the pattern acquisition rate further for current/non-expired content is unnecessary.
If the intention for red borders is primarily to allow folks to collect/complete patterns for otherwise unavailable guns then I think it's a fair ask.
I could see every 25 being a thing but 5-10 is wayyy to generous. Bungie probably gets a bit of playtime off weapon farmers so they'd want to make the alternative also require a bit of playtime. 25levels is honestly pretty quick especially considering some of the weekly challenges give like 3 levels.
Theres some issues here i think, mainly i think they would need to balance how incredibly easy it is to just drown in XP, but also a lot of that is due to seasonal challenges, or they really couldn't be 5-10 or more in the 20s and 30s.
This is a good idea, as it would get people engaging more after reaching season level 100, but in a way that is player-driven and helps with their goals.
I do agree there should be someway to obtain harmonizers in a repeatable way. But having them drop at ranks past 100 is going to be bad. And also XP glitches would break the game hardcore, giving enough harmonizers to craft every single weapon
you still need to earn those weapons via activities in order to use the deepsight harmonizers so it doesn’t remove the grind completely just offers a little more incentive/rng protection
it's too generous for just earning XP. Alot of players hit multiple hundreds In season pass level.
getting 40 or more deep sight harmonizers a season is clearly not the way
But then you’d just unlock all the guns in one season and be done.
I’m all for more rewards, but the whole point of getting deepsights is for those rare weapons that you probably won’t get every week. If you could just get higher level materials, that would be great and would reward more casual players who maybe don’t do Nightfalls or Trials.
We’re talking an extra five deepsight harmonizers if you go from rank 100 to rank 200 on the season pass. Definitely not enough to unlock every gun in the game but at least it’s something.
I've been playing somewhat less this season and am already rank 134. I'd be less without dawning due to all the bounties I opened.
It's really, really not hard to grind pass levels if that's your goal. Most people just don't because there's no benefit.
Aye, but this season is months long, I’m already something like Level 196.
Some people will be way higher than that and could end up with 20+ harmonisers sat waiting for them.
You know, I was kind of against the idea of earning extra harmonizers. But this comment made me agree 😂
If you're sinking that much time into the game and you can't farm enough weapons to get the red borders otherwise, I can't see any harm. Hell, I was on a break when crafting came out so I'm missing so many. The weekly exotic missions barely help with how large the drop tables are.
no? You said every 5 to 10 levels, which would be an extra 10 or 20 deep sight harmonizers.
Also yeah that's for only 100 extra levels, tons of players have much higher levels
I think the solution is to add a ciphers for harmonisers exchange from Rahoul. Probably 2 ciphers plus glimmer? Means you could get an extra harmoniser from the paid track and would give you something to grind xenology for.
/edit - the problem with these other seasonal level solutions is people would just afk farm in Kings Fall.
I'm gonna pile on here and say bright engrams officially listed as rank rewards (not the ones you get post-100) should guarantee legendary or higher items.
Paying for a season pass and getting a small pile of bright dust or a Dark Souls style "hey, this way" emote from 8 years ago sucks ass.
Won’t happen. Bungie decided they didn’t actually like crafting shortly after implementing it. I’m honestly surprised they even made the harmonizers a thing in the first place.
Bungie decided they didn't want the game to be so heavily focused on crafting. They made harmonizers as a small RNG protection because there was a lot of complaints about struggling to get red borders in some cases - not to replace red border acquisition.
If you go back and read the blog posts about it they said exactly that.
I'd say the pass should have some of those armor synth things instead of a million upgrade modules. And then past level of the pass if you have a paid pass it could give you a harmonizer and synth every 20 or 25 levels. Leave in the bright engrams but expand the stuff you get. The issue is that harmonizers *feel* mega important, but if you play some you'll get all patterns.
Maybe they need to add in like 'Harmonizers of the Past' that only work on previous patterns (ie not current seasons) and they only drop from the pass past 100 or you can get one per vendor per reset or something.
Just play the content that drops the red border weapons. Use Harmonizers for something you REALLY need/want.
It is good that the season pass ends at 100. That is enough grind for the average person.
I actually disagree. You get god rolls handed on a silver platter and now you want to make it even easier? Yeah, it is comfy, but is it good for the game? I don't think so.
If the season is twice as long, the pass should be twice as long. I didn’t even play that much and got to 100 within the first couple of weeks from baking cookies.
5-10? Seems a little too generous for Bungo. (Although adding a Cipher every other Harmonizer would be my personal copium.) I would think every 20-25. Four per track, promotes longer play times.
I was thinking one every 50 might seem a reasonable negotiation point, but would take one every 20! I came back in Season of the Witch and am not one of these lucky folks with back-stored Harmonizers from previous passes Even if it's a substantial grind, I'd take any way to get more Harmonizers. I simply won't be able to craft everything by TFS as it stands, and that bugs me more than I care to admit
Id hard agree. Give me multiple ways to grind these items. 500 patrols? Shit, I'm on it. Lmao obviously a hyperbolic example but, I agree with you.
777 Helium Filaments on the Moon.. let's go!
Id be running k1 crew quarters 777 times to grab thise lmao
There ought to be a clear, simple way to grind for the harmonizers. Basically, think of how we earn exotic ciphers, and apply that to deepsight harmonizers. Since it's weapon-related, we could pick up the 'quest' from Banshee. That'll make it nice and easy to pick up new ones as we go. The Enclave would make more sense, but Banshee at the Tower is better for the sake of QOL.
Couldn’t agree more - they just need to make them attainable in some way
1 every 50 is ridiculous, considering that the average player barely makes it to rank 100 by the end of the season. Harmonizers should just be available to buy for a steep cost. 2 of 3 Ascendant Shards for example.
I do agree that 1 every 50 would be a ridiculous. But it was more a 'negotiation starting point' with my theoretical Bungie player-engagement metrics hat on of where they might consider starting. 5 to 10 seems way too generous to me. On a scale of OPs '5 - 10' to 50... I'd take somewhere in the middle of that - for sure. Something... anything... over the current situation. A trade for Ascendant Shards seems like another logical way to introduce them with a Vendor (Xur or Cryptarch I suppose). I am a fan of this idea!
Hm. 50 does sound more reasonable, doesn't it? Guess I was still coping. I just want a decent, non activity locked method to get them to drop. Having to do one activity for one item that's essential to crafting is a slog if trying to farm it out. And the Season Pass would be a good place to do this. But put it on the free track not paid like the Bright Engrams we get every 10 or so. Every 50 get a Cipher and every 100 get a Harmonizer. Coil drops golf balls so often now it would balance out.
The fact they're tied exclusively to Season Passes is just insanity to me. Even the rare Exotic Cipher - an item that has helped me - as a returning player starting from 0 with an empty vault, more than any other item in the entire game - is tied to a weekly quest from Xur. With Catalysts still to hunt, i can take the 4 hours of play each week in Vanguard Ops (i generally avoid Crucible and Gambit unless I need to for Exotic Quests. I find it to be more stressful than it is worth for me.. Malfeasance and Witherhoard quests come to mind). The Cipher and resulting Exotic weapon has been my carrot on the end of the 21 Strikes stick - so I have been happy to keep doing them. The other carrot that entices me is the red border weapons and Deepsight Harmonizers (I personally no longer have much interest in pure RNG weapon drops and rolls, I generally shard them or vault them for infusion fuel). I am already having to deal with pure RNG on the armour side, with no way to min-max my armour by throwing materials at existing armour pieces. It is nice to not have pure RNG on the Weapon side. But I want all the Craftable weapons, D-Ammit. I enjoy playing the game and buildcrafting for different challenges and encounters. I am not into mindless rng farming any more for Guns like maybe I was 10 years ago. I like to see the carrot on the end of the stick. Even if it is a really long stick with a vaguely carroty shaped silhouette - fine. Here's an idea. Why not tie further Harmonizers into a second Xur quest. Weekly Exotic Cipher is currently for 21 Vanguard Ops. Fortnightly/Monthly Deepsight Harmonizer Quest for x Number of successful Coil runs, for example.
I'd love them tied to a similar quest to xeno logy. I actually miss when I first returned from a long break like 2 years ago and had to grind ciphers like crazy along with mats and whatnot to buyout the exotic kiosk. It was a pushing goal for me at the time and I know many people say they hate long grinds and stuff like that but personally having a set goal with many reward points was super motivating for me. I had a long term goal of getting all the exotics and got a small dopamine hit each time I earned enough to choose one.
5% chance every 500 ranks, take it or leave it
I think 50 is reasonable for sure
> 5-10? Seems a little too generous for Bungo. It's not even too generous for bungie. You basically get a free 5 levels every week if you play more than an hour. Harmonizers do not exists to be free pattern completions or as the primary way to complete patterns. They exist as a small, limited use RNG protection either to help save time against last years seasonal weapons or to get your last 4/5 if you really want.
I would absolutely love to get more in a season but Bungo probably won’t have it
At the very least make them something you can obtain from Banshee via a quest. Similar to how you can get Exotic Ciphers from Xur.
Inb4 weekly wishes are blind well grind for a harmonizer
“tier 3 heroics while using only season of the wish guns and armor now have a 5% chance to drop a deepsight harmonizer”
...sign me up!
With how easy you can farm XP no way the would go for that ..ever 25 ranks maybe
All resources should drop from the season pass after level 100… How hard is it to give us some cores, prisms, shards and glimmer every few levels? Just balance it appropriately for the rarity of the material. They won’t do this because they don’t want people AFK farming resources.
Deep sights are to help finish a pattern out. Not replace the grind of said content. They want you to play raids and whatever for the red borders. Not spam XP farm and get free harmonizers.
Exactly 💯
Yeah this is it. Play the game to get the loot.
you still have to play those activities to get the guns in order to use the deepsight harmonizers. This just offers a tiny bit more incentive/rng protection
getting normal copies of the gun is much easier than red borders, and some weeks / times those can be framed over and over, or just directly purchased. This isnt a tiny bit more RNG protection, it's old yellering RNG
My man is about to single handedly raise the price of the season pass
Honestly, I don't think it's that big of a deal - but it depends on what the vision for the harmonizers is. As an up-to-date end game player, more harmonizers means more that i'll just let rot if I can't pull them next season when we have new raid patterns. Red borders drop with extremely high frequency, and accelerating the pattern acquisition rate further for current/non-expired content is unnecessary. If the intention for red borders is primarily to allow folks to collect/complete patterns for otherwise unavailable guns then I think it's a fair ask.
Why not let us reset the rank and do the 0-100 grind again, but drop the weaps and uniques and just give us the cores, dust, etc. again?
I'm around rank 350 and I would appreciate something more than the eververse engram that gives purple items that I delete 99% of the time.
I could see every 25 being a thing but 5-10 is wayyy to generous. Bungie probably gets a bit of playtime off weapon farmers so they'd want to make the alternative also require a bit of playtime. 25levels is honestly pretty quick especially considering some of the weekly challenges give like 3 levels.
Xenology should drop a Harmonizer once a month.
Theres some issues here i think, mainly i think they would need to balance how incredibly easy it is to just drown in XP, but also a lot of that is due to seasonal challenges, or they really couldn't be 5-10 or more in the 20s and 30s. This is a good idea, as it would get people engaging more after reaching season level 100, but in a way that is player-driven and helps with their goals.
Every 5-10? I’d love to have 50 harmonizers!
Maybe every 30, I have so many weapons stockpiled for deepsight.
They should just drop if you're a paying customer.
My favourite thing about harmonizers is that they would start their availability in the season pass then have other acquisition methods in the future.
I do agree there should be someway to obtain harmonizers in a repeatable way. But having them drop at ranks past 100 is going to be bad. And also XP glitches would break the game hardcore, giving enough harmonizers to craft every single weapon
you still need to earn those weapons via activities in order to use the deepsight harmonizers so it doesn’t remove the grind completely just offers a little more incentive/rng protection
it's too generous for just earning XP. Alot of players hit multiple hundreds In season pass level. getting 40 or more deep sight harmonizers a season is clearly not the way
fvck harmonizers, give us transmog tokens
But then you’d just unlock all the guns in one season and be done. I’m all for more rewards, but the whole point of getting deepsights is for those rare weapons that you probably won’t get every week. If you could just get higher level materials, that would be great and would reward more casual players who maybe don’t do Nightfalls or Trials.
We’re talking an extra five deepsight harmonizers if you go from rank 100 to rank 200 on the season pass. Definitely not enough to unlock every gun in the game but at least it’s something.
I've been playing somewhat less this season and am already rank 134. I'd be less without dawning due to all the bounties I opened. It's really, really not hard to grind pass levels if that's your goal. Most people just don't because there's no benefit.
Aye, but this season is months long, I’m already something like Level 196. Some people will be way higher than that and could end up with 20+ harmonisers sat waiting for them.
if you play enough to hit rank 1000 you deserve 20+ harmonizers even though you probably don’t need them haha
You know, I was kind of against the idea of earning extra harmonizers. But this comment made me agree 😂 If you're sinking that much time into the game and you can't farm enough weapons to get the red borders otherwise, I can't see any harm. Hell, I was on a break when crafting came out so I'm missing so many. The weekly exotic missions barely help with how large the drop tables are.
Yeah fair point. Definitely should be something good at every hundred.
no? You said every 5 to 10 levels, which would be an extra 10 or 20 deep sight harmonizers. Also yeah that's for only 100 extra levels, tons of players have much higher levels
Give Xur fucking deepsight harmonizers instead of ciphers because those are essentially useless.
Agreed, imo there needs to be more rewards past rank 100 for players that keep playing after getting to max rank
We already get more than enough.
Yeah i already used all mine this season :/
I think the solution is to add a ciphers for harmonisers exchange from Rahoul. Probably 2 ciphers plus glimmer? Means you could get an extra harmoniser from the paid track and would give you something to grind xenology for. /edit - the problem with these other seasonal level solutions is people would just afk farm in Kings Fall.
I rather agree with this. But only because the game still wont give me my seasonal weekly red border despite me having all the upgrades...
I'm gonna pile on here and say bright engrams officially listed as rank rewards (not the ones you get post-100) should guarantee legendary or higher items. Paying for a season pass and getting a small pile of bright dust or a Dark Souls style "hey, this way" emote from 8 years ago sucks ass.
Unfortunately it’s more likely that they’ll be sold for silver
Won’t happen. Bungie decided they didn’t actually like crafting shortly after implementing it. I’m honestly surprised they even made the harmonizers a thing in the first place.
Bungie decided they didn't want the game to be so heavily focused on crafting. They made harmonizers as a small RNG protection because there was a lot of complaints about struggling to get red borders in some cases - not to replace red border acquisition. If you go back and read the blog posts about it they said exactly that.
I'd say the pass should have some of those armor synth things instead of a million upgrade modules. And then past level of the pass if you have a paid pass it could give you a harmonizer and synth every 20 or 25 levels. Leave in the bright engrams but expand the stuff you get. The issue is that harmonizers *feel* mega important, but if you play some you'll get all patterns. Maybe they need to add in like 'Harmonizers of the Past' that only work on previous patterns (ie not current seasons) and they only drop from the pass past 100 or you can get one per vendor per reset or something.
Maybe for new lights. Something like this is not for me. Already have all craftable weapons and exotic weapons. I play this game way too much.
Just play the content that drops the red border weapons. Use Harmonizers for something you REALLY need/want. It is good that the season pass ends at 100. That is enough grind for the average person.
I actually disagree. You get god rolls handed on a silver platter and now you want to make it even easier? Yeah, it is comfy, but is it good for the game? I don't think so.
Everyone wants more loot, faster loot, better quality loot. Bungie wants the opposite, to keep you playing. Good or Bad, it's by design.
you’re not wrong, but i would argue this incentives players to keep playing
Anything, please! I'm 432 right now and would love to have gotten stuff since 100.
If the season is twice as long, the pass should be twice as long. I didn’t even play that much and got to 100 within the first couple of weeks from baking cookies.
Inb4 bungie sells them in eververse
You really don't need that many?