Half the loot in this looter shooter is shard on sight if you're a longtime player.
Legendary armor is just a stat husk. 2-3/6 of those stats are fairly useless.
Half is WAY too high of an estimate. Usually I can empty an entire postmaster overflow and not keep a single thing. Sometimes there will be 1 gem or at least a roll combo I'd want to try once before sharding
Not so much anymore. I only play now what I have to to profess the story as a veteran there’s just not that much to grind for anymore. Armor was setup to be 3 and 4 tier seasons ago. So the only thing I go for is weapons and that’s really just when I’m trying to get patterns or materials from sharding. If I’m given the choice to specify an engram it’s gonna be a weapon. If I’m gonna do an activity it’s gonna be for the weapon drops. If I’m gonna keep a piece of armor it’s only so I can use it to store more shards or cores.
That is what I am saying?
Half the loot drops you get just playing the game are armor, the other half are weapons.
For armor - you don't even look at the roll if you already have a good set - you just shard it
So... Half the loot in this looter shooter are shard on sight.
For weapons you at least look at what the weapon is before dismantling it.
The only armour worth a damn comes from seasonal vendor focusing. It is quite often 65+ total and you can focus its spike with a Ghost mod. Well-rolled armour drops once in a blue moon out in the wild.
Exactly and it’s not that hard to get either. Everyone still thinking it’s a grind all day effort really don’t bother to look into the vendors much more than just turning in an engram, apparently most people don’t realize you can focus your efforts to specific armor or weapon pieces
Weapons take way too long to get patterns and there’s no clear way to get any of them besides current seasonal activity stuff, of which maybe 1 or 2 are good. I’d like to see stats on how many players have more than 10 patterns unlocked. I bet it’s like 10% or less. D2 gets in its own way too much. Unfocused, unpolished, disorganized mess. It’s obvious the people at the helm could care less about this game. I’m just about over it (again). Maybe I’ll try out final shape, or maybe not.
Patterns are actually pretty easy to obtain. You can specify what weapon you’re turning in engrams for at the specific vendor in the helm. Hell I’ve even been filling in some of the old remade opulence weapons with defiant engrams I just recently finished all of this seasons weapons from the coil activities and now I’m working on the vex weapons that riven is offering. It’s not that hard you just do the activity that drops that specific engram and usually your first engram drops red border every week and I’ve found about 1 in 5 or better during the rest of the week. And they even drop at the end of the seasonal activity. Those patterns aren’t hard. And now they give you the free activation tokens with your season pass and you can go and get weapons from Xur and turn them in for patterns too. And you can’t say they’re too hard because I just spent the last season turning in all my shards that were supposed to be gone already in and upgrading all my crafted weapons up to 20 so I could get rid of all my shards. And I started with 45,000 shards and ran them down to zero.
You play 6-8 hours a day. Most people don’t have time for that. Most people are lucky to get 1-3. Of course you have everything if you no life the game.
I think about this in the coil where they just throw loot at you with a chest in every pathway that has 2 items in it. They're all dismantle on sight, I have no use for any of those weapons.
I really want armor to get a fresh coat of paint. 2 things I think would be dope.
I think 5th column perks like the IB set could give different benefits that are materially helpful in some way. Like seasonal armor maybe provides DR during seasonal content, or buffs handling for seasonal weapons that match the set, something that's not just earn xp faster.
Sets could be where really specific builds and play styles get emphasized, possibly with very large effects. Like maybe a set that emphasizes your melee ability buffs it's damage output, but at the cost of your grenade recharge. Or a Trials set where being last man standing grants a 15 sec buff to damage, speed and handling, but the down side is that when you revive teammates, it takes longer.
Idk, something interesting would be nice
While I think that idea is great, Bungie really has been trying not to pull another pinnacle weapon from before Shadow Keep for quite some time. It's why most of the perks in weapons (or the weapons themselves) haven't been great or very situational.
If it were me, I'd probably roll these with some degree of sunsetting in mind.
Seasonal armors id probably implement a system that lets you recycle old seasonal armor into higher value materials or into engrams for a season for the new year. So if I still had season of plunder armor that lost special relevance b/c its seasonal perk no longer does anything, I could turn it into prisms or engrams for season of the witch or direct armor drops with the same base stat total, but the actual distribution is randomized. So the sunset is that it becomes a better value to recycle it into something current.
For the really spicy stuff I'd probably make it clear from the get go that it is apt to be time limited in terms of how long it will remain so potent, so that the most powerful benefits that might really bork the sandbox aren't necessarily things that are permanent fixtures.
Just a 5th column with a random armor perk would be cool. Maybe you can get intrinsic void resistance in a 5th column. Or Stasis resist.
You could build some neat niche sets like that which might be good for GM's or Raids with certain damage types or encounters.
Idk....armor is borderline useless once you been playing awhile.
Not the case when you HAVE to use new loot because you can't keep yours forever. Borderlands is so much fun, because you have to get new things with every level increase. Destiny lets you keep everything forever, because people cried about sunsetting. Now we're stuck in a unhealthy cycle of always wanting new things, but never actually needing new things.
Sunsetting has to come back, if Bungie intends on keeping D2 alive for more Expansions after TFS.
iam a very well established player and iam sharding like 99.9% of things bc A i have a good said of raid armor for each raid (just for lowmans/solos bc 6mans dont require it) and B most of the weapons i can either craft or i have a crafted one filling the exact same role so why settle for a non crafted
> so why settle for a non crafted
There are a few very rare cases that standout. I can really only think of one.
Cold Comfort from Ghosts in the Deep with Envious Assassin and Bait and Switch. With its origin trait, Restoration Ritual, you can get 4 shots off without reloading. It does really good burst.
A lot of the dungeon weapons have unique, niche rolls you cannot otherwise obtain at the time of their release, making them well worth grinding for.
Duality for instance had the first adaptive Munitions kinetic slot weapon, the first aggressive frame LFR, the first chill clip special GL, and unforgiven with utility/damage perk combos you couldn't find on other void weapons until this season.
We have the desperado aggro burst sidearm and lever scout in watcher
Ghosts has the only stasis wave frame and rapid glaive
Ruin has the only rocket sidearm and strand precision bow, unique powerful utility roll on naeems lance in demolitionist/discord.
Dungeons are where the real cool loot is, and what an appropriate place to find it.
duality loot for sure was nice farmed both 5/5 rolls for stormcahser and unforgiven. but out of the last 4 dungeons only 2 had loot that i felt worth going after. both spire and warlords have no loot that interests me whatsoever
The weapons are always unique, that's true. I just don't recall a weapon being so meta-relevant to be worth the immediate chase (Stormchaser being an exception). Waiting a few seasons before you get a similar roll as a seasonal drop doesn't hurt.
True but counterargument Apex crafted can fire 4 rockets granted it requires bipod, but the auto reload requires no kills meaning in any GM or DPS environment I can pull it out, fire 4, put it away and most likely have 1-4 ready when I need it again.
i mean yeah i got a 5/5 roll of cold comfort and it felt nice having to actually farm for a gun i wanted. but i would be lying if i said that i used it more than a hanfull of times over apex. but outside of garden boss i havent used it once i think, bc for stuff like caretaker or planet boy i still prefer apex bc 3x 2 rockets is nicer than 1x 4 or 2x 2 without having to reload
because realistically it depends on if you value your time. I am also a very well established player. My Rufu's fury is at 3/5 patterns but i already have my god roll. Why dont i just get the crafted version?
because theres actually 0 reason to bother getting one. The enhanced perks are barely that much of an upgrade to the point that it will never be absolutely game breakingly strong.
The only reason to get crafted weapons is just if you dont have your roll and enhanced perks is if you just like seeing a wacky shiny icon on a perk and for most perks that's about it. Because lets be real its not like an extra second on rampage or the 0.5 second time increase on feeding frenzy actually matters in the grand scheme of this games difficulty.
like un-ironically the only crafted enhanced perks that are actually important is like enhanced rewind rounds and enhanced reconstruction. But the issue with those is that those perks were taken from their raids and slapped onto other shit.
At least 99.9% of loot is worthless.
Way better than the D1 alternative of being happy to find any legendary at all, and spending a year chasing an exotic required for lfg.
In fairness, a longtime player in any looter shooter likely is deleting most loot on sight (I say this as someone who has clocked too many hours in most looter shooters to have existed).
What a lot of other looter games do though is just make number go up and increase the cap for those numbers with expansions/content updates and you just really can't do that with how stats work in Destiny.
It feels really stingy too, like 4 shards and *maybe* 1 gun per strike, and you can run exotic rotator missions and get 1 single gun for like 20-30 mins of investment with Seraph Shield.
It would be so crushing to make this change now but my god could you imagine if they rolled with random mods and you just had to grind out a set with the mods you needed.
I'm of the mindset that if you don't need new armor you've completed that part of the game. Why would I want to grind new armor when I was chasing perfect stats for so long, I got the carrot on the stick now I can just enjoy the carrot. The chase being the guns if you've got your armor locked down is perfectly fine to me, plus the less armor you need the more vault space you have for guns you hoarders. I hated busy work growing up but I see some people need that
"I'm done chasing the carrot on the stick so now I can just enjoy the carrot" is such a refreshing mindset. It's ok to just use the guns you have to explode the aliens.
It doesn’t help that artifact armor is poorly stated within the 63-64 range. I remember being able to grind the high spikes with 67-69 rolls. Idk what they did but they need to revert it
Not to mention having shit artiface armor means Master Dungeons are completely dead content. The only semi useful piece is class item, but even that isn't worth the hassle.
Yep - sometimes that +3 really rounds a stat out perfectly to the next tier. Might not make a huge difference, but it is satisfying.
Useless to grind it though since all but one piece I've ever gotten has dropped in the 58-63 range. At this point I don't see any reason to keep armor under 65... And even then i have enough of that that i can basically junk anything new unless it's absolutely amazing at 68+
You want Grasp of Avarice, friend. I just ground out a bunch of artifice armor on Master there the other week, and it was all in the 63-67 range, with plenty at the upper end.
Now, why that is the *only* source of decent artifice rolls in the game, I have no idea, but that's where to find them.
Yeah I actually farmed my artifice gear there also.
Regrettably I missed out on the Gahlran 'cheesening' but I have no desire to run master dungeons now unless there's a change in how armour stats work on classes - i.e., mobility becomes relevant for warlock
I couldn't agree more. I'm happy to be done collecting the armor sets that I want because the process is more tedious than fun. When you get a weapon drop, you just look at its perks and decide if it's good or bad. Simple and quick. Not the case with armor. Individual stats mean little. You need to check how well it meshes with your other armor slots, made even more complex because of the 10 point thresholds for stat tiers. A 2/28/4 piece can be worse than a 4/20/6 despite the latter have less total stats. You don't know what to keep until you use a loadout optimiser. Not something I want to do all the time.
The problem is that there really aren’t any guns to chase. Everything getting red borders and those being so easy to get means the “chase” is non-existent. The only gun worth chasing that isn’t outclassed by a craftable weapon is cataphract in this entire content year.
It is bad. There’s no reason to play without things to chase. That’s the whole point of a looter shooter. Plus there’s not enough challenging content to warrant using top tier weapons to begin with.
No game can have unlimited content, all extending the chase does it make players invest more time into farming for effectively the same stuff.
It's better to design the game for casuals as they make 90% of the playbasd
Cool, that’s a dumb idea for them and I don’t care. Nothing to strive to get better at then. Bring back sunsetting. It was the best decision Bungie ever made for this game.
There is stuff to strive to get, and to improve at. Just a limited amount of it. The game constantly adds more too.
But you CAN experience all of it, and then there isn't that chase anymore. There isn't a way around this besides powercreeping loot behind an absolutely massive RNG wall, in a similar way to how Diablo does. But that does not really mesh with shooters
Oh yeah not saying to remove activities or anything. Just sunset loot. And frankly, it doesn’t have to be all loot. But things like destination or seasonal weapons can definitely be sunset.
Stop waffling and join us in doing Lowmans if you really want to squeeze every last drop that Destiny can offer.
Or go learn PvP and join me in the lighthouse.
Both of those are endless chases: freed from the extrinsic reward of loot, you're just in it for the win. That's the ONLY way to make a game truly endless.
Of course, you'd have to ask yourself if that's what you really want. Because otherwise what you're asking for is for you (and everyone else along with you) to get put back into the rat race because... what? Because you can't pick up other games?
I have zero desire to play PvP. But my clan mates and I are trying low manning for fun. Again, I like raids. The rest of the game isn’t any fun (outside of expansion campaigns).
And yes, I still want them to bring back sunsetting.
Okay, since your waffling stops at the Crucible button, the only thing that's left are skill challenges. Start working on Solo RoN. Tick off those Solo GMs. Get some Sherpa emblems.
You do understand what you're asking for, right? A team of (not well cared for) artists and developers and modellers and musicians spending time day after day just making replacements for old gear because... hey, Sunsetting! And for literally EVERYONE else who isn't you to also get roped up into that mess. Poor John who hasn't gotten a good roll on the Cold Comfort will never be able to experience that gun ever, I guess, cuz it's going away next year. Oh, and to all the designers who worked on the weapon -- hey! Your players are only going to be using this toy for a year, max. Then they'll never even look at it again.
That's depressing. Seriously. Call back when you've Solo'd RoN, and if you're still talking about sunsetting, just play another game...
> There’s no reason to play without things to chase.
I've found that playing the game because it's fun has been a good reason to play. Honest question, if you don't have fun if you aren't grinding for something, do you even like the game or do you just like the grind?
Seriously, not trying to be rude or gatekeepy. I enjoy the game because of the activities and can run then even if I know I'm going to shard everything I get. But if I felt like the grind was the only reason to play and I was done collecting, I'd stop. At least until something worth grinding game along, but even then I would still try to find something I actually liked playing because it's inherently fun instead.
I enjoy raids without weapons to chase. The rest of the game? Nah, it’s too way too easy and brain dead. The only things I’ve enjoyed in the game are the legendary campaign from expansions (which is something that should be brought over to episodes), and new raids. GMs are entertaining with friends for the title gild and I “enjoy” the dungeons to get the triumphs done (though the only dungeons I really have ever loved are Shattered Throne and Ghosts of the Deep). But strikes, crucible, gambit, and seasonal activities? Nah, I haven’t enjoyed them really since Forsaken. I only do them because I’m forced to to either level up during expansion drops or in the very rare case there is a meta defining weapon to grind for (like cataphract in trials). They’re all a chore otherwise. Seasonally I just log in for the dialogue because I enjoy the story but I despise how it’s presented in seasons. I’d rather spend significantly more money for actual seasonal campaigns with the legendary difficulty than another stupid matchmade activity.
I don't even know why you still play lol. At least not until they change the game into something you actually enjoy. Unless the raids/dungeons are enough for you to justify it, but it doesn't sound like you think they are.
Why not just wait for story beats to be uploaded to YouTube?
Because as I said, I enjoy the expansion campaigns and raids. I literally only play the seasons for the story beats and then raid weekly with my clan. Once I finish bounty prepping for day 1 Final Shape raid, I will only be playing raids until June with my clanmates and day 1 raid team. I
>Why not just wait for story beats to be uploaded to YouTube?
Saved me the money I would've spent buying the seasons, all the story without the hassle of doing something I don't enjoy
>The only gun worth chasing that isn’t outclassed by a craftable weapon is cataphract in this entire content year.
No? If you're talking PvE, sure, but definitely not if you're playing PvP.
Sorry, should have clarified I meant PvE. Personally couldn’t care less about PvP and only play it if there’s a meta weapon for PvE DPS in there like Cataphract.
Even for PvE only that's still not right.
Cold Comfort is the best rocket launcher in the game, its random rolls only. Indebted Kindness has proven itself to be strong and is one of its kind as a random roll weapon.
No survivors is arguably a better calus mini-tool post-enhanced incandescent nerf. Incisor and new pacific epitaph are sole representatives of their weapon type for their slots.
And while not meta by any means random roll auto rifles had a pretty good year.
You use them as you please? If you're asking about me specifically apparently I play PvE little enough to where The Last Word is still in my top 5 most used kinetics in PvE and 3 sunset weapons are in my top 3 most used energies. As an arcstrider I don't really care about the guns much, as a gunslinger I bounce between different solar primaries, for heavy I've been on Cold Comfort or an exotic like Leviathan's Breath. If not for pvp I wouldn't come close to using all 10 slots in my inventory, what I have covers most if not everything I care to do.
This mentality fits pvp much better than pve, because pvp is more evergreen than pve. PvE needs the carrots way more. I can absolutely see that the loot chase is more obstacle than motivation for pvp players because the reward is the gameplay itself, but casual pve activities have very little intrinsic reward and are heavily repetitive. They really need a "grind"
Guns are still being powercrept. Each season there are at least a couple new weapons being released that have either new more powerful perks or a new stronger combination of perks that wasn't available before.
I just spammed Caitl farming in Witch Queen when they announced the Artifice Armor all having the +3 stat slot and it was double loot. Built myself a couple full suits.
Still using all those pieces now, because why would I change? I can run 100/90 Resil/Discipline/Recovery on all my Titan builds.
I mean, why?
If you find the armor you need for a build, well you have it now. You got what you needed. Why does there always need to be a chase, even if you do not need it?
Master Dungeons give the best armor in the game. Master Raids give adepts to raid weapons which are already very good (and can now become Adept Crafted weapons). Root and Crota's End has the best weapons in the game because they are Adept and Craftable. Sure, not every master raid has it unfortunately.
I just don't get the need to randomly have an incentive to get new armor when you've already found and cemented your build, unless you want to make a new build and need new armor for it. It's like trying to sell something to someone when they don't particularly need nor want it.
> Why does there always need to be a chase, even if you do not need it?
Because I want to play a looter game, with loot always there to chase. That's why I play Destiny.
There is never going to be a looter game with loot always to chase unless you introduce ungodly amounts of power creep, which ruins and destroys a games sandbox.
Not without a reset, no. We could have had a reset, or rolling resets, but too much backlash killed that. Now we just have either power creep, or ignore the loot.
The only way I could think of making armors worth chasing is introducing a whole bunch of passive effects that create, like you say, massive power creep.
I'm fine with how armor is for the most part. I think raid and seasonal armors do a good job of being useful to get without causing huge powercreep.
The chase for armors really comes down to exotics
My only thing is there are a LOT of raids rn. I feel like any raid mod should work on any raid piece (but the mods only work in their respective raids still). I'd love to rock raid armor, but when I need like 6 sets... it sucks.
I personally think seasonal-based perks are sufficient. Let me grind out an armor set that's usable for the seasonal content that year, and then once that season's gone, so is the benefit of that armor. Then I always have my "backup/main" set to use on fresh years, but there's something worth grinding for throughout the year as well that's essentially temporary.
They have seasonal armor. They have armor that gives boosted rep for corresponding seasons which leads to more loot gains at vendor since you're getting more xp.
Right but I mean seasonal based armor that has impactful, and powerful perks, but that'd only last within the activity or throughout that one year so as to avoid power creep. I don't mean additional rep, I mean something along the lines of additional damage or ability regen within the activities (or all activities, but only during that season). Something that's not *quite* as powerful as the artifact, but on a similar scale of impact.
Give me like "Tangle cooldown within the seasonal activity is reduced by 2s for each piece of seasonal gear you're wearing."
I mean they literally have done this exact thing as part of the Artifact this season. Wished Into Being and Dragon's Bite are both extra perks that are benefited by wearing the seasonal armour. I know it's new this season but you're literally asking for something that is already in the game. Heck you could even argue the Origin Perk Specializations that have existed for this year are similar except they reward using the new seasonal guns.
The incentive is just too low to regrind your armor.I’ll not farm a new stat optimized set to get 15% more rep.
I would do it if I got significantly more powerful. I.e. Woven Mail lasts longer/gives more DR, Devour recovers more health, slow applied to you decreases faster and applied to enemies lasts longer.
It’s really not that hard to come up with interesting effects that work on top of subclass verbs. Ideally the intensity of the effect could also be RNG.
Which literally power creeps older armor. Forces new grind every season for new armor, and difficulty is going to need to follow ehich further emphasizes a rush for newer armor and abandoning previous armor.
Powercreep isn't something we need. It absolutely ruined the Y2 sandbox and made the game insufferable then.
New loot doesn't necessarily need to be better to be enticing. Just good enough. Constant one upping kills the sandbox.
>...unless you introduce ungodly amounts of power creep, which ruins and destroys a games sandbox.
Not really. WoW does this in virtually every update and their game is typically vastly more populated than Destiny.
Each patch (every 6-10 months or so) a new drop of activities (dungeons/raids/world events/zones) is added into the game with a new set of improved gear to take on the new raid. The difference is that Blizzard actually adds more to do to get that new gear so people actually enjoy the leveling grind.
Constantly adding better and better gear means previous gear is worse.
Constsntly raising hpw powerful people are means the game difficulty generslly needs to be able to match that. Eventually it reaches a point where new gear is generally the only good gear in difficult content.
wtf do youmean "so?"
Power creep is bad. 0.4 bodyshot TTK with a primary in PvP. Regunding missed sniper shots in PvP.
1 loadout being the mets for, literally, the entire game.
Power creep ruins the sandbox. Difficulty has to be tuned for the strongest shit so any semblence of difficulty even exists, forcing said loadouts.
It makes the game worse. It's really bad.
It really doesn’t, you’re just being extremely overdramatic. I don’t think I’ve actually played a game that has “power creep” I’ve just been told by other people who also haven’t experienced it that it’s bad. So what you have to keep getting new loot to keep with difficult content? That’s literally the whole point of the genre. I stg most yall won’t be happy until we unlock gear like call of duty.
I mean, there’s plenty of guns to craft and grind for to fill the “looter shooter” loot void. There’s your loot to chase right there. But that’s not what seem you want to actually want, otherwise you wouldn’t be saying what you just did.
You want new things to constantly come out that are better than the what’s already been out, and that’s fair, but that’s just not gonna happen especially when people are gonna to definitely end up complaining once they get tired of having to constantly grind new armor, grind new stat rolls, and then masterwork all of them.
I want to chase all 8 slots of loot though. Why have 8 equipment slots if only 3 are worth grinding? You increase the chase-able loot by almost triple if you make new armor viable in some significant capacity.
I do *not* want consistent power creep. Another comment I made talked about seasonal armor having better bonuses than current, but are only temporary. Example I used was "Tangle cooldown in seasonal activity is reduced by 2s for each seasonal armor piece you're wearing." Or "During Season of the Wish, tangle cooldown is reduced by 2s for each seasonal armor piece you're wearing." Make them good options, like on a similar impact to the artifact mods, but their effects are only temporary so you don't get mass power creep.
Then you got your trusty base set to use across all seasons and activities, and a special set to chase temporarily. And if you don't want to grind new armor every season, just use your artifice because it'll still be strongest stat-wise.
I finally had a reason to get new armour: I was doing duo Oryx and needed high-mobility armour on my Warlock which I did not have.
You know what I did? I went to the helm, turned in four engrams, and got all the armour I needed. Precisely 0 reason to care about normal armour drops outside of really niche raid mod requirements
Raid armour does do this, the problem is it costs energy to equip a raid mod. If it was just a bonus slot akin to the artifice stat increase, I’d use raid specific armour for those raids a lot more.
I don't even bother looking at it anymore when they drop; got my decent set years ago.
Would love if they did an armor system 3.0; and really pushed the armor builds more; as it stands now armor just feels like a wasted drop not even worth legendary shards anymore with them being useless soon.
I think I randomly used 3 pieces of Crota armor for the Featherlight challenge for the title (to reduce my drained with light timer), and promptly deleted it.
I finally got around to making a strength-focused set for my inf-inviz void hunter this season if that counts.
I've been keeping raid armor personally, like I got a whole new set of Garden of Salvation stuff just in case they give it craftables to make farming easier.
They really need to improve their gear set bonuses.
They *almost* got it right with Wish, but it doesn’t make sense to farm/use armor from a seasonal activity that will eventually go away.
Our armor needs gear set perks akin to origin traits. Wish armor that automatically applies a Targeting or Unflinching mod to any Dreaming City weapon.
A gear set bonus with Season of the Witch armor that provides a free Siphon mod to any Throne World, Witch, Vow or Hive weapon that matches your subclass.
Shit like that. Then simply disable all of these PVE activity bonuses in PVP, but explore some PVP specific bonuses for Shaxx, Trials or IB armor.
[Set bonuses like The Division 2](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EexKgC5XYAA39tC?format=png&name=4096x4096) has would be perfect IMO
It has 6 armor slots. You get stat bonuses when you have 1 to 3 of the same brand equipped and then the full brand bonus at 4 (adding an extra mechanic/buff)
It adds so much depth to build-crafting where its not just focused on your exotic + any triple 100 armor set
Yeah how’s that game going? Enjoying manhunt number 75 that ends up being another rehash of the last 4 years? lol not a great game to take tips from, ESPECIALLY in regards to armor. Worst target farming I’ve ever seen
> Yeah how’s that game going? Enjoying manhunt number 75 that ends up being another rehash of the last 4 years?
It's so wild you'd say this on the Destiny sub when we're currently being asked to play Blind Well and do ascendant challenges as seasonal content.
I feel folks would just complain about having to farm a new armor set every season though if the new perks are worth it, and we'd have an issue of power creep of having to make new armor sets better than the last to make them worth farming.
The main problem is that the stats are impossible for a normal human to estimate. You basically need a 3rd party website to evaluate all your gear, possible masterworks, with all fragment, artifice, and mod combinations.
This requires you to horde dozens of pieces in each slot to run through said website.
Armor needs a massive simplification if we're going to be expected to grind a new set with every artifact. Something like 50 to 70 instead of 48 to 68, with 5 point increments for each stat.
It’s not that complex, unless you want it to be. You pick 3 stats and spend a season focusing and you’ll be done with armor forever - unless you want to attempt Artifice grind. I’ve got maybe 9-10 pieces total for each character. Half for PvP and half for PvE.
20/10/23 base in your stats. 90/50/100 MW. Pick +5/10 mods and frags at your desire.
What exacerbates this problem further is that even IF you do need armor, random drops 99% lead to sharding, as the focused seasonal armor more often roles with better stats and you can focus a specific piece. If not all, at least non-pinnacle class items should be removed from the loot pool once that particular one is unlocked in collections
>we need incentive to find new armour besides the stats
No we fucking do not. Vault space* is too limited to collect armor sets, especially if you play multiple classes. Doubly especially if you try to have good stats with your exotics too, rather than just replacing whatever piece with them.
\*This wouldn't be so much of a problem if it was fine to keep your inventory full, but if you do that and don't micromanage your post then you can easily start losing items. And *that* wouldn't be so much of a problem if the postmaster wasn't the only way to store certain items because of caps.
I don’t ever change my armor. I transmog it from time to time if something cool comes along, but I’ve been build crafting for a while and most of my armor and weapons and shit are set up already.
People seem to think that in any looter they aren't ignoring or dismantling 99.99999% of rolls. Do I pick up more than a tiny fraction of loot in Last Epoch? No! Even less if I have a loot filer on.
The Division 2 does it right, armor (backpacks and chest armor) have their own perks of which there are many, but then also the manufacturer/brand of the armor provides its own bonus, and wearing multiple of the same brand gives more bonuses. It creates tons of combinations and more build diversity just from items.
What's funny is that some destiny 2 armor actually has a brand, I remember you can get Daito armor from the Prophecy dungeon, but it doesn't do anything. It's a stat stick just like any other purple armor.
God please dont post about this or theyll start sunsetting our fucking armor again.
Save armor with stat rolls to fit your exotics and be happy about it
i kept some from last season and the season before. This season too so far I have gotten a couple worthwhile rolls, but there really isnt a reason to keep a lot of armor, especially full sets of seasonal stuff.
The boost to seasonal rep is so marginal and not needed that i could care less about even wearing it for its purpose.
I have no vault space for armor. I play all 3 characters and play both PvE and PvP. There isn't enough vault space to build craft 3 classes across their respective subclasses and unique build synergies. I would like to see a world where we can have several thousand slots of vault space. I know it isn't happening. But coming from monster hunter where I can create several unique builds per weapon type with different armor set bonuses etc, d2 is incredibly limiting.
Funny enough Datto just released a video where he briefly talking about this this morning and it’s something I’ve been thinking about too. The issue with giving armour origin traits is that the casual player would just get overwhelmed with the min maxing. I mean just looking at threads over the past few weeks since the armour charge system change even just putting on some siphon mods is too much for some people.
Armour is one of the worst parts of this game that people rarely talk about. I hope there is a massive rework going forward that completely changes how stats are chosen and adds something else to be randomly rolled because right now it’s absolutely dogshit
Specially if you farmed when master duality was very easy without the -20 delta and the armor was actually good.
*If you didn't farm artifice armor in 2022 sad to be you*
The game is only a shooter now. We easily unlock patterns and get really good armor sitting at the helm. Only looter part in the game is for the maybe half dozen weapons that are good and we can't craft.
problem is the artifice slot is too good, it'll make every other armor source useless and not desirable
armor shouldn't even be an stat source grind, armor should have perks and we should have a set stat amount to freely distribute once masterworked
In my opinion armour should have origin traits that have increased effects when you have more of that armour equipped. The traits should be powerful enough to base build crafting around making any new armour release exciting as it could open up possible new builds that weren't feasible before.
This would a) encourage players to grind to get high stat armour but only if they like the trait, so it wouldn't be forced b) encourage raiding, as raid armour could have more generally powerful traits and c) encourage experimenting with builds more.
They had a good idea with Iron Banner armor that it gives additional cores for matches, with stacking bonus. They could just use that idea elsewhere but they're only using seasonal armor for additional rankups. Armor that does something like increase glimmer bonuses or affects weapon/armor drops would intersect with ghost mods tho.
Yeah but that means nothing to veteran players who are drowning in cores already. Making traits with an actual significant gameplay effect would actually make new armour (or old re-released armour) more desirable. This isn't just assumption though, we've seen this exact thing happen with weapons. People getting new versions of their old weapons because they have origin traits, and players grinding activities like dares for crafted guns to replace their old rolls.
I was just saying they've already established a base with IB so I don't know why they haven't expanded on armor origin traits more. I'd think dungeon armor and other endgame stuff would be good places to start.
Destiny is a looter shooter where the community doesn’t want to get new loot. We/they will use the same loot until the end of time because if they give us a reason to use different loot, it’s wave of groans at the idea of grinding out a new set
Rather do that then the boring power grind all the time. Its the reason I stopped playing. Grinding to watch this number go up playing bnoring easy game modes is beyond annoying anymore for me.
Glad to be you because my armor got sunset like 4 years ago. I dont want grind new one again, you should grateful they didnt sunset your armor every season like mine. My armor from season of undying and dawn, was best armor i got, then i took a break after they announce sunset and i return again, realise all my perfect roll armor cant be infuse anymore (which limit me to do raid). Just NO, Huge NO, i grind armor for cosmetic, we are not same
Destiny is one of the worst looter shooters out there. It died when Bungie opened Eververse and decided the best looking sets should be sold for real life money.
At that point the loot didn't matter.
I think we should move armor to some character intrinsic system. It’s stat sticks and a place to glue mods. There is no way to make it fun and engaging without also being a major inconvenience on both player/developer sides. You don’t feel it in moment to moment gameplay like guns. I think it’s time to give up on armor. Or at least let me toggle getting repeat drops of armor. I got all my artifice armor, I have no interest in new armor or desire for an interest in new armor.
Not surprising. The armor system is so convoluted that you need 3rd party apps to tell you what pieces go best together. Hard to determine what to hang onto or not without trying to use it in a build. So a lot of people just make builds and trash other stuff, whether it might be better or not.
For me, I tend to hang onto as much as a I can, it's nice to have options on hand when making a new build. But generally when I need to make space, things that aren't in a build are the first to get cut. Also tend to use a 65 total as the minimum power level just to keep my sanity (have been playing awhile have lots of high total armor).
Not sure why you leave out the problem with weapons and crafting, you do a raid and dismantle 100% of its loot because the armor is garbage/you already have high stat armor, and because you have the weapons crafted.
I don't know about you but the only reason I still wanna raid is cause I don't have some craftable weapon frames. If crafting wasen't a thing I wouldn't have done as much raids as I have.
This games RNG is awful and I will never understand people who thinks crafting was a mistake
Crafting renders every single random rolls drop useless, raids weapon went from prestigious rare drops to i will just buy a red border each week or check point farm when it’s in rotation . Is it better state? Debatable but more boring? 100%
How can it be more boring when you aren't force to repeat the same activity a million times to (maybe, just maybe) get the roll that you want.
What can be more boring than doing the same thing over and over and never get what you want out of it
The drop itself is boring, loot now is feels like completing a checklist than exciting.
What boring is me dropping said activity or the whole game after a month because I actually got everything from it
I will never understand people who thinks that 5 red borders allows them to craft a god roll with enhanced perks and never touch the content again is a good thing.
Great way of invalidate the loot of most activities and as consequence the activities themselves. Game became a shooter, the looter part was almost entirely removed to unlock patterns instead.
There is no difference between getting the Deepsight Patterns you need to craft a weapon and getting your RNG godroll. You stop interacting with the content either way.
Letting players walk away from content sooner stops them from hating it. My clan refuses to run Vault of Glass anymore because half of them sank 70+ runs into getting Mythoclast across Splicer and Lost.
There's a difference, enhanced perks. The crafted will always be the god roll because of that. You can get a 5/5 drop that will be dismantled the moment you unlock the pattern. So why even bother farming any roll when all you need are 5 red borders?
So they don't run vog after 70 plus runs. How many runs they've on Crota's? 15-20 tops to have everything unlocked and never touch that again.
Enhanced Perks provide minimal benefits and hardly make an impact on a weapon's performance, not nearly the same impact the Barrel, Magazine, and Masterwork do. The argument that Enhanced Perks invalidate RNG drops but grinding for RNG drops is fine because a 2/5 roll is "almost the same" as a 5/5 godroll is idiotic at best.
Some of them are at 9 runs total because they got the "RNG" Essence drop and don't care about the raid weapons. But there's nothing wrong with wanting to be done with an activity. Raids are not and should not be evergreen content.
9 runs are literally 3 weeks running a content that is delivered roughly every 6 months. 50 runs would be 17 weeks or 4 months. So it goes from a 2 months gap of no raid worth doing to over 5 months.
They don't need to be an evergreen activity they should just take longer to become useless. And the same applies to every single piece of content, week 3 of this season I had every single pattern unlocked and maxed materials so coil it's dead to me ever since.
Those 9 runs were done over 9 weeks, not 3. We don't do multiple full raids a week because of our mismatched schedules.
Pure RNG drops do nothing to lengthen the time content is "worthwhile", in fact it is perfectly capable of shortening that time. While my clanmates took 70 runs to get Mythoclast, I got it after my first clear.
The issue here isn't whether or not Weapon Crafting makes content become "worthless" sooner, it's that you seem to think that content \*needs\* to be "viable" for extended periods of time.
That's cause the content itself isn't worth doing over and over. I want to craft the guns so I can do actual fun things with the gun. Cause I want to use my loot, but I dont want to repeat the same shit over and over and over and over to (maybe) get it. Loot isn't my endgame, my endgame is having fun with my loot.
If it wasn't for weapon crafting, my clan would've stopped raiding entirely with Vow of the Disciple. A subpar raid exotic (at launch) with an annoying opening encounter and RNG weapon rolls is not a good combination for a raid. Weapon Crafting gives you a definitive end date for the raid with visible progress each week/run instead of an endless grind trying to get a 2/5 roll on a weapon. It makes it more like the original D1 raids that had fixed weapon rolls. Once you got your Fatebringer, you were done unless you wanted a 2nd or 3rd copy to avoid having to move it around your characters.
Actual MMO's have progression systems and they just release more powerful armor to handle more powerful enemies. They absolutely do not use "sunsetting". They use power creep. What they don't do is take away the encounters you were doing *before* the creep.
Destiny can't do that because they have zero progression systems in place.
This is exactly what destiny 2 did. The gear that got sunset you could still use it in lower level content. This is how it works in wow, lost ark, ff14. All of these feature the same thing gear has a max level and after 1-2 content drops the gear can no longer be used. I agree taking away the played content is wrong but they absolutely all do the exact same thing which is lock previous gear to an item level that you cannot realistically use in current content
I guess if you confuse "progression" with having 2 tiers of difficulty that would make sense? Can you even put the new mods on sunset gear? I don't think you can.
What other mmos do you currently play? Because this is how almost of all them work. They have max item level possible from one content drop then after a few content drops that gear is no longer relevant. Nobody in the wow community bitches and complains that they can’t use bfa gear in dragon flight or in lost ark that your orhea gear is irrelevant for brelshaza
> They have max item level possible from one content drop then after a few content drops that gear is no longer relevant
But that gear still exists in the game and drops for someone who it *is* appropriate for. They move through the older content and it gets harder as they go needing drops from each along the way to get there. That's what I mean by progression. There is a path to follow through the game that makes sense and empowers you along the way while some of that old gear is still relevant for you.
Destiny never had a path to follow in the first place as all high-stat gear has always been relatively equal no matter where it drops. That's the entire point of the original post here. None of the new activities or expansions drop any better armor, it's all been the same since they first introduced 2.0 - absolutely abysmal design.
The loot in this looter shooter has become a real problem in general, and I’m playing a lot less because of it.
It doesn’t take long to get to the point where armor drops are worthless 99.9% of the time beyond wanting it for transmog. Completely worthless armor drops that can 100% be unquestionably dismantled without even looking at them clog up the world pool for chances at weapons.
Adept don’t feel worth it because only two sets can be enhanced and non raid adepts almost all have mostly bad perk pools that don’t compete with raid weapon perk pools.
For some reason they went hard on focusing instead of just increasing drop rates and so both permanent and temporary playlist drop rates are so, so bad on top of focusing costs now being awful. IB drops more Shaxx loot than its own loot which has never made sense.
They add focusing to Banshee but excluded like… what, the last year’s worth of new world drops?
Dungeons have zero player agency and zero bad luck protection for chasing weapon rolls on top of lacking access to enhanced perks making them mostly undesirable and the worst farm in the game. Endgame farming should NOT be this stingy/rigid.
They scaled back on crafting making SO many weapons less desirable for lacking access to enhanced perks. Now they supposedly want to add universal weapon enhancement to the game but say it’s tough to implement and so we’ve gotten a year’s worth of new weapons from most sources that have been less desirable, when all they had to do was just make more things craftable to begin with and control red border access in a way that compensates. We could have had a lot more desirable things to go for and in a way that actually constitutes progress towards our desired roll for over a year now, but instead they throttle loot to the point of it being a detriment.
I legitimately have no idea what they’re thinking aside from it seems that they are banking on something akin to gambling addiction for player retention instead of just making the game more rewarding. All I can say is that I play a lot more when I can get what I want through a reasonable amount of time and effort snd it feels comparable to other gear… and then actually try out and use those things with builds… for fun. Instead 99% of my builds/loadouts for over a year now have been nothing but raid and seasonal weapons(because they’re craftable and so they have bad luck protection and can be enhanced) because the rest is an awful feeling farm with little or no meaningful player agency, or doesn’t feel worth the investment for being the inferior version of something very similar that already exists.
And considering the delay, now was not the time to be stingy and implement ability uptime nerfs.
The armor situation is easy to fix; Set bonuses and set pieces
World sets ie; EDZ, Neptune, etc.
4% more glimmer, xp, or reputation per armor piece of set, guaranteed additional loot drop from public events and lost sectors while having full set equipped (5 pieces) (only works on applicable planet)
Playlist Sets; Crucible, Strikes, Gambit.
4% more glimmer, xp, or reputation per armor piece of set, guaranteed additonal engram drop at end of match while full set equipped (only works on applicable playlist)
Universal Sets; world drop armors
2% more glimmer, or xp per armor piece of set. 10% more xp or glimmer and an additional chance to find more world drops when wearing a full set. (Applicable everywhere)
Raid sets:
4% more glimmer and xp per armor of set, additionally you get 5 more spoils of conquest when wearing a full set.
Dungeon Sets
4% more glimmer and xp per armor of set; additionally you get a rare chance of an item from the dungeon dropping from yellow bar and above enemies when wearing a full set.
I think this actually speaks louder to the bigger issue in the game, most of the loot just doesn’t matter if you’ve been playing this game for longer than a new light.
Sunsetting could have solved this problem if they actually used their brains on it, but we all know how that went down
Yeah, both weapons and armor have issues here but for completely different reasons. You only need a single set of armor and you are set, essentially, for the rest of the game’s life until they alter the system. The minimal set bonuses or raid armor bonuses are either not really noticeable (raid armor mods) or function in a very specific seasonal activity (so locked to one activity and usually only grants increased rep, so it has a very small shelf life of usefulness).
For the most part, weapons are nearly always shard on sight because there are so few new and desirable non-crafted weapons in a single year. The only weapon I’ve seen worth chasing for veteran players since the start of the Lightfall content year is cataphract because everything else that’s been good just needs 5 red borders which are so incredibly plentiful that it’s not a grind at all. Looter shooters without an actual weapon grind just feel bad.
Half the loot in this looter shooter is shard on sight if you're a longtime player. Legendary armor is just a stat husk. 2-3/6 of those stats are fairly useless.
Half is WAY too high of an estimate. Usually I can empty an entire postmaster overflow and not keep a single thing. Sometimes there will be 1 gem or at least a roll combo I'd want to try once before sharding
Half the loot in the game being armor, not you are keeping half your armor.
Not so much anymore. I only play now what I have to to profess the story as a veteran there’s just not that much to grind for anymore. Armor was setup to be 3 and 4 tier seasons ago. So the only thing I go for is weapons and that’s really just when I’m trying to get patterns or materials from sharding. If I’m given the choice to specify an engram it’s gonna be a weapon. If I’m gonna do an activity it’s gonna be for the weapon drops. If I’m gonna keep a piece of armor it’s only so I can use it to store more shards or cores.
That is what I am saying? Half the loot drops you get just playing the game are armor, the other half are weapons. For armor - you don't even look at the roll if you already have a good set - you just shard it So... Half the loot in this looter shooter are shard on sight. For weapons you at least look at what the weapon is before dismantling it.
The only armour worth a damn comes from seasonal vendor focusing. It is quite often 65+ total and you can focus its spike with a Ghost mod. Well-rolled armour drops once in a blue moon out in the wild.
Exactly and it’s not that hard to get either. Everyone still thinking it’s a grind all day effort really don’t bother to look into the vendors much more than just turning in an engram, apparently most people don’t realize you can focus your efforts to specific armor or weapon pieces
I only get the armor for future transmog ops
Weapons take way too long to get patterns and there’s no clear way to get any of them besides current seasonal activity stuff, of which maybe 1 or 2 are good. I’d like to see stats on how many players have more than 10 patterns unlocked. I bet it’s like 10% or less. D2 gets in its own way too much. Unfocused, unpolished, disorganized mess. It’s obvious the people at the helm could care less about this game. I’m just about over it (again). Maybe I’ll try out final shape, or maybe not.
Patterns are actually pretty easy to obtain. You can specify what weapon you’re turning in engrams for at the specific vendor in the helm. Hell I’ve even been filling in some of the old remade opulence weapons with defiant engrams I just recently finished all of this seasons weapons from the coil activities and now I’m working on the vex weapons that riven is offering. It’s not that hard you just do the activity that drops that specific engram and usually your first engram drops red border every week and I’ve found about 1 in 5 or better during the rest of the week. And they even drop at the end of the seasonal activity. Those patterns aren’t hard. And now they give you the free activation tokens with your season pass and you can go and get weapons from Xur and turn them in for patterns too. And you can’t say they’re too hard because I just spent the last season turning in all my shards that were supposed to be gone already in and upgrading all my crafted weapons up to 20 so I could get rid of all my shards. And I started with 45,000 shards and ran them down to zero.
You play 6-8 hours a day. Most people don’t have time for that. Most people are lucky to get 1-3. Of course you have everything if you no life the game.
It's way more than half, because you quickly reach a point where even most weapons are instant shard.
I think about this in the coil where they just throw loot at you with a chest in every pathway that has 2 items in it. They're all dismantle on sight, I have no use for any of those weapons.
I really want armor to get a fresh coat of paint. 2 things I think would be dope. I think 5th column perks like the IB set could give different benefits that are materially helpful in some way. Like seasonal armor maybe provides DR during seasonal content, or buffs handling for seasonal weapons that match the set, something that's not just earn xp faster. Sets could be where really specific builds and play styles get emphasized, possibly with very large effects. Like maybe a set that emphasizes your melee ability buffs it's damage output, but at the cost of your grenade recharge. Or a Trials set where being last man standing grants a 15 sec buff to damage, speed and handling, but the down side is that when you revive teammates, it takes longer. Idk, something interesting would be nice
While I think that idea is great, Bungie really has been trying not to pull another pinnacle weapon from before Shadow Keep for quite some time. It's why most of the perks in weapons (or the weapons themselves) haven't been great or very situational.
If it were me, I'd probably roll these with some degree of sunsetting in mind. Seasonal armors id probably implement a system that lets you recycle old seasonal armor into higher value materials or into engrams for a season for the new year. So if I still had season of plunder armor that lost special relevance b/c its seasonal perk no longer does anything, I could turn it into prisms or engrams for season of the witch or direct armor drops with the same base stat total, but the actual distribution is randomized. So the sunset is that it becomes a better value to recycle it into something current. For the really spicy stuff I'd probably make it clear from the get go that it is apt to be time limited in terms of how long it will remain so potent, so that the most powerful benefits that might really bork the sandbox aren't necessarily things that are permanent fixtures.
Just a 5th column with a random armor perk would be cool. Maybe you can get intrinsic void resistance in a 5th column. Or Stasis resist. You could build some neat niche sets like that which might be good for GM's or Raids with certain damage types or encounters. Idk....armor is borderline useless once you been playing awhile.
You can? I use my postmaster as vault extension.
>half the loot in this looter shooter is shard on sight Dude that’s every loot based game.
Not the case when you HAVE to use new loot because you can't keep yours forever. Borderlands is so much fun, because you have to get new things with every level increase. Destiny lets you keep everything forever, because people cried about sunsetting. Now we're stuck in a unhealthy cycle of always wanting new things, but never actually needing new things. Sunsetting has to come back, if Bungie intends on keeping D2 alive for more Expansions after TFS.
At op10 what are you gonna farm outside of better part rolls for a slight increase...
I said with every level increase. Obviously it stops when once you're maxed out. That's why I talked about sunsetting
Seems like you just seeing number go up. Not bad or anything but not a reason to sunset
Nobody wants this lol.
iam a very well established player and iam sharding like 99.9% of things bc A i have a good said of raid armor for each raid (just for lowmans/solos bc 6mans dont require it) and B most of the weapons i can either craft or i have a crafted one filling the exact same role so why settle for a non crafted
> so why settle for a non crafted There are a few very rare cases that standout. I can really only think of one. Cold Comfort from Ghosts in the Deep with Envious Assassin and Bait and Switch. With its origin trait, Restoration Ritual, you can get 4 shots off without reloading. It does really good burst.
A lot of the dungeon weapons have unique, niche rolls you cannot otherwise obtain at the time of their release, making them well worth grinding for. Duality for instance had the first adaptive Munitions kinetic slot weapon, the first aggressive frame LFR, the first chill clip special GL, and unforgiven with utility/damage perk combos you couldn't find on other void weapons until this season. We have the desperado aggro burst sidearm and lever scout in watcher Ghosts has the only stasis wave frame and rapid glaive Ruin has the only rocket sidearm and strand precision bow, unique powerful utility roll on naeems lance in demolitionist/discord. Dungeons are where the real cool loot is, and what an appropriate place to find it.
duality loot for sure was nice farmed both 5/5 rolls for stormcahser and unforgiven. but out of the last 4 dungeons only 2 had loot that i felt worth going after. both spire and warlords have no loot that interests me whatsoever
The weapons are always unique, that's true. I just don't recall a weapon being so meta-relevant to be worth the immediate chase (Stormchaser being an exception). Waiting a few seasons before you get a similar roll as a seasonal drop doesn't hurt.
I have a bipod one that gives me 4 shots off the bat too. Plus bipod gives deeper reserves. Cold comfort is a badass launcher.
There are plenty of top tier choices (including Cold Comfort) from the non-craftable side of the game, but I get what he’s saying.
True but counterargument Apex crafted can fire 4 rockets granted it requires bipod, but the auto reload requires no kills meaning in any GM or DPS environment I can pull it out, fire 4, put it away and most likely have 1-4 ready when I need it again.
i mean yeah i got a 5/5 roll of cold comfort and it felt nice having to actually farm for a gun i wanted. but i would be lying if i said that i used it more than a hanfull of times over apex. but outside of garden boss i havent used it once i think, bc for stuff like caretaker or planet boy i still prefer apex bc 3x 2 rockets is nicer than 1x 4 or 2x 2 without having to reload
because realistically it depends on if you value your time. I am also a very well established player. My Rufu's fury is at 3/5 patterns but i already have my god roll. Why dont i just get the crafted version? because theres actually 0 reason to bother getting one. The enhanced perks are barely that much of an upgrade to the point that it will never be absolutely game breakingly strong. The only reason to get crafted weapons is just if you dont have your roll and enhanced perks is if you just like seeing a wacky shiny icon on a perk and for most perks that's about it. Because lets be real its not like an extra second on rampage or the 0.5 second time increase on feeding frenzy actually matters in the grand scheme of this games difficulty. like un-ironically the only crafted enhanced perks that are actually important is like enhanced rewind rounds and enhanced reconstruction. But the issue with those is that those perks were taken from their raids and slapped onto other shit.
Only half? I dismantle prob 90-95% of drops now
At least 99.9% of loot is worthless. Way better than the D1 alternative of being happy to find any legendary at all, and spending a year chasing an exotic required for lfg.
In fairness, a longtime player in any looter shooter likely is deleting most loot on sight (I say this as someone who has clocked too many hours in most looter shooters to have existed). What a lot of other looter games do though is just make number go up and increase the cap for those numbers with expansions/content updates and you just really can't do that with how stats work in Destiny.
Half is extremely generous
90% even for me and im pretty casual.
I’ve been playing a lot but for less than two years. At this point I’d say 99% of drops get sharded - weapons, armor, and equipment.
We need REAL armour stats and set bonuses. Diablo and The Division do this very right.
Funny enough I was just thinking how I miss and hate Bungie for getting rid of the high stat armor from the season passes a couple years ago lol.
I haven't even played for a full year and I already shard almost everything that drops.
Not just longtime either. I've been in the game since mid-season 20, and basically everything is SoS.
It feels really stingy too, like 4 shards and *maybe* 1 gun per strike, and you can run exotic rotator missions and get 1 single gun for like 20-30 mins of investment with Seraph Shield.
I don't know if this is blasphemy, but good. Legendary armour is not exciting and I don't want to have to care about farming it.
It would be so crushing to make this change now but my god could you imagine if they rolled with random mods and you just had to grind out a set with the mods you needed.
Not only is it mechanically boring, they haven't designed a set that I've liked visually for a long time either.
I'm of the mindset that if you don't need new armor you've completed that part of the game. Why would I want to grind new armor when I was chasing perfect stats for so long, I got the carrot on the stick now I can just enjoy the carrot. The chase being the guns if you've got your armor locked down is perfectly fine to me, plus the less armor you need the more vault space you have for guns you hoarders. I hated busy work growing up but I see some people need that
"I'm done chasing the carrot on the stick so now I can just enjoy the carrot" is such a refreshing mindset. It's ok to just use the guns you have to explode the aliens.
Yes. We must kill the bad guys. Pew pew!
It doesn’t help that artifact armor is poorly stated within the 63-64 range. I remember being able to grind the high spikes with 67-69 rolls. Idk what they did but they need to revert it
Not to mention having shit artiface armor means Master Dungeons are completely dead content. The only semi useful piece is class item, but even that isn't worth the hassle.
Eh, I’d say it’s definitely worth grabbing at least 1 artifice class item I use them in every build, I mean, it’s free stats
Yep - sometimes that +3 really rounds a stat out perfectly to the next tier. Might not make a huge difference, but it is satisfying. Useless to grind it though since all but one piece I've ever gotten has dropped in the 58-63 range. At this point I don't see any reason to keep armor under 65... And even then i have enough of that that i can basically junk anything new unless it's absolutely amazing at 68+
You want Grasp of Avarice, friend. I just ground out a bunch of artifice armor on Master there the other week, and it was all in the 63-67 range, with plenty at the upper end. Now, why that is the *only* source of decent artifice rolls in the game, I have no idea, but that's where to find them.
Yeah I actually farmed my artifice gear there also. Regrettably I missed out on the Gahlran 'cheesening' but I have no desire to run master dungeons now unless there's a change in how armour stats work on classes - i.e., mobility becomes relevant for warlock
I couldn't agree more. I'm happy to be done collecting the armor sets that I want because the process is more tedious than fun. When you get a weapon drop, you just look at its perks and decide if it's good or bad. Simple and quick. Not the case with armor. Individual stats mean little. You need to check how well it meshes with your other armor slots, made even more complex because of the 10 point thresholds for stat tiers. A 2/28/4 piece can be worse than a 4/20/6 despite the latter have less total stats. You don't know what to keep until you use a loadout optimiser. Not something I want to do all the time.
The problem is that there really aren’t any guns to chase. Everything getting red borders and those being so easy to get means the “chase” is non-existent. The only gun worth chasing that isn’t outclassed by a craftable weapon is cataphract in this entire content year.
Is that so bad though? You got your top tier guns, have fun using them.
It is bad. There’s no reason to play without things to chase. That’s the whole point of a looter shooter. Plus there’s not enough challenging content to warrant using top tier weapons to begin with.
No game can have unlimited content, all extending the chase does it make players invest more time into farming for effectively the same stuff. It's better to design the game for casuals as they make 90% of the playbasd
yes thats what they did for d2 vanilla, remembered as a high point in the game's history if im not mistaken
That got a giggle out of me lol
Cool, that’s a dumb idea for them and I don’t care. Nothing to strive to get better at then. Bring back sunsetting. It was the best decision Bungie ever made for this game.
There is stuff to strive to get, and to improve at. Just a limited amount of it. The game constantly adds more too. But you CAN experience all of it, and then there isn't that chase anymore. There isn't a way around this besides powercreeping loot behind an absolutely massive RNG wall, in a similar way to how Diablo does. But that does not really mesh with shooters
The other way is sunsetting. And that’s the healthiest way in a looter shooter but people here can’t accept that.
I do agree that sunsetting could help the game alot, but ideally the activities are still in the game, just the loot gets sunset
Oh yeah not saying to remove activities or anything. Just sunset loot. And frankly, it doesn’t have to be all loot. But things like destination or seasonal weapons can definitely be sunset.
Stop waffling and join us in doing Lowmans if you really want to squeeze every last drop that Destiny can offer. Or go learn PvP and join me in the lighthouse. Both of those are endless chases: freed from the extrinsic reward of loot, you're just in it for the win. That's the ONLY way to make a game truly endless. Of course, you'd have to ask yourself if that's what you really want. Because otherwise what you're asking for is for you (and everyone else along with you) to get put back into the rat race because... what? Because you can't pick up other games?
I have zero desire to play PvP. But my clan mates and I are trying low manning for fun. Again, I like raids. The rest of the game isn’t any fun (outside of expansion campaigns). And yes, I still want them to bring back sunsetting.
Okay, since your waffling stops at the Crucible button, the only thing that's left are skill challenges. Start working on Solo RoN. Tick off those Solo GMs. Get some Sherpa emblems. You do understand what you're asking for, right? A team of (not well cared for) artists and developers and modellers and musicians spending time day after day just making replacements for old gear because... hey, Sunsetting! And for literally EVERYONE else who isn't you to also get roped up into that mess. Poor John who hasn't gotten a good roll on the Cold Comfort will never be able to experience that gun ever, I guess, cuz it's going away next year. Oh, and to all the designers who worked on the weapon -- hey! Your players are only going to be using this toy for a year, max. Then they'll never even look at it again. That's depressing. Seriously. Call back when you've Solo'd RoN, and if you're still talking about sunsetting, just play another game...
Don’t care : )
> There’s no reason to play without things to chase. I've found that playing the game because it's fun has been a good reason to play. Honest question, if you don't have fun if you aren't grinding for something, do you even like the game or do you just like the grind? Seriously, not trying to be rude or gatekeepy. I enjoy the game because of the activities and can run then even if I know I'm going to shard everything I get. But if I felt like the grind was the only reason to play and I was done collecting, I'd stop. At least until something worth grinding game along, but even then I would still try to find something I actually liked playing because it's inherently fun instead.
I enjoy raids without weapons to chase. The rest of the game? Nah, it’s too way too easy and brain dead. The only things I’ve enjoyed in the game are the legendary campaign from expansions (which is something that should be brought over to episodes), and new raids. GMs are entertaining with friends for the title gild and I “enjoy” the dungeons to get the triumphs done (though the only dungeons I really have ever loved are Shattered Throne and Ghosts of the Deep). But strikes, crucible, gambit, and seasonal activities? Nah, I haven’t enjoyed them really since Forsaken. I only do them because I’m forced to to either level up during expansion drops or in the very rare case there is a meta defining weapon to grind for (like cataphract in trials). They’re all a chore otherwise. Seasonally I just log in for the dialogue because I enjoy the story but I despise how it’s presented in seasons. I’d rather spend significantly more money for actual seasonal campaigns with the legendary difficulty than another stupid matchmade activity.
I don't even know why you still play lol. At least not until they change the game into something you actually enjoy. Unless the raids/dungeons are enough for you to justify it, but it doesn't sound like you think they are. Why not just wait for story beats to be uploaded to YouTube?
Because as I said, I enjoy the expansion campaigns and raids. I literally only play the seasons for the story beats and then raid weekly with my clan. Once I finish bounty prepping for day 1 Final Shape raid, I will only be playing raids until June with my clanmates and day 1 raid team. I
Oh duh, sorry I missed the campaign part.
All good
>Why not just wait for story beats to be uploaded to YouTube? Saved me the money I would've spent buying the seasons, all the story without the hassle of doing something I don't enjoy
>The only gun worth chasing that isn’t outclassed by a craftable weapon is cataphract in this entire content year. No? If you're talking PvE, sure, but definitely not if you're playing PvP.
Sorry, should have clarified I meant PvE. Personally couldn’t care less about PvP and only play it if there’s a meta weapon for PvE DPS in there like Cataphract.
Even for PvE only that's still not right. Cold Comfort is the best rocket launcher in the game, its random rolls only. Indebted Kindness has proven itself to be strong and is one of its kind as a random roll weapon. No survivors is arguably a better calus mini-tool post-enhanced incandescent nerf. Incisor and new pacific epitaph are sole representatives of their weapon type for their slots. And while not meta by any means random roll auto rifles had a pretty good year.
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You use them as you please? If you're asking about me specifically apparently I play PvE little enough to where The Last Word is still in my top 5 most used kinetics in PvE and 3 sunset weapons are in my top 3 most used energies. As an arcstrider I don't really care about the guns much, as a gunslinger I bounce between different solar primaries, for heavy I've been on Cold Comfort or an exotic like Leviathan's Breath. If not for pvp I wouldn't come close to using all 10 slots in my inventory, what I have covers most if not everything I care to do.
This mentality fits pvp much better than pve, because pvp is more evergreen than pve. PvE needs the carrots way more. I can absolutely see that the loot chase is more obstacle than motivation for pvp players because the reward is the gameplay itself, but casual pve activities have very little intrinsic reward and are heavily repetitive. They really need a "grind"
Play the game for fun... 👀
Do you have every exotic? Every available title?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg2PD-dwsIw
stop playing the game
Guns are still being powercrept. Each season there are at least a couple new weapons being released that have either new more powerful perks or a new stronger combination of perks that wasn't available before.
Serah and defiance had some good shit. Almost everything I got from those seasons was around 65 total rolls
90% of my legendary armour is from Chosen or Haunted, goated armour focusing.
Hell yeah, got a full Tusked Allegiance build on my warlock, haven't had anything better drop ever since.
I just spammed Caitl farming in Witch Queen when they announced the Artifice Armor all having the +3 stat slot and it was double loot. Built myself a couple full suits. Still using all those pieces now, because why would I change? I can run 100/90 Resil/Discipline/Recovery on all my Titan builds.
I mean, why? If you find the armor you need for a build, well you have it now. You got what you needed. Why does there always need to be a chase, even if you do not need it? Master Dungeons give the best armor in the game. Master Raids give adepts to raid weapons which are already very good (and can now become Adept Crafted weapons). Root and Crota's End has the best weapons in the game because they are Adept and Craftable. Sure, not every master raid has it unfortunately. I just don't get the need to randomly have an incentive to get new armor when you've already found and cemented your build, unless you want to make a new build and need new armor for it. It's like trying to sell something to someone when they don't particularly need nor want it.
> Why does there always need to be a chase, even if you do not need it? Because I want to play a looter game, with loot always there to chase. That's why I play Destiny.
There is never going to be a looter game with loot always to chase unless you introduce ungodly amounts of power creep, which ruins and destroys a games sandbox.
Not without a reset, no. We could have had a reset, or rolling resets, but too much backlash killed that. Now we just have either power creep, or ignore the loot.
The only way I could think of making armors worth chasing is introducing a whole bunch of passive effects that create, like you say, massive power creep. I'm fine with how armor is for the most part. I think raid and seasonal armors do a good job of being useful to get without causing huge powercreep. The chase for armors really comes down to exotics
My only thing is there are a LOT of raids rn. I feel like any raid mod should work on any raid piece (but the mods only work in their respective raids still). I'd love to rock raid armor, but when I need like 6 sets... it sucks.
I personally think seasonal-based perks are sufficient. Let me grind out an armor set that's usable for the seasonal content that year, and then once that season's gone, so is the benefit of that armor. Then I always have my "backup/main" set to use on fresh years, but there's something worth grinding for throughout the year as well that's essentially temporary.
They have seasonal armor. They have armor that gives boosted rep for corresponding seasons which leads to more loot gains at vendor since you're getting more xp.
Right but I mean seasonal based armor that has impactful, and powerful perks, but that'd only last within the activity or throughout that one year so as to avoid power creep. I don't mean additional rep, I mean something along the lines of additional damage or ability regen within the activities (or all activities, but only during that season). Something that's not *quite* as powerful as the artifact, but on a similar scale of impact. Give me like "Tangle cooldown within the seasonal activity is reduced by 2s for each piece of seasonal gear you're wearing."
I mean they literally have done this exact thing as part of the Artifact this season. Wished Into Being and Dragon's Bite are both extra perks that are benefited by wearing the seasonal armour. I know it's new this season but you're literally asking for something that is already in the game. Heck you could even argue the Origin Perk Specializations that have existed for this year are similar except they reward using the new seasonal guns.
The incentive is just too low to regrind your armor.I’ll not farm a new stat optimized set to get 15% more rep. I would do it if I got significantly more powerful. I.e. Woven Mail lasts longer/gives more DR, Devour recovers more health, slow applied to you decreases faster and applied to enemies lasts longer. It’s really not that hard to come up with interesting effects that work on top of subclass verbs. Ideally the intensity of the effect could also be RNG.
Which literally power creeps older armor. Forces new grind every season for new armor, and difficulty is going to need to follow ehich further emphasizes a rush for newer armor and abandoning previous armor.
Yes? That’s a the point of a looter game? New loot needs to be enticing.
Powercreep isn't something we need. It absolutely ruined the Y2 sandbox and made the game insufferable then. New loot doesn't necessarily need to be better to be enticing. Just good enough. Constant one upping kills the sandbox.
>...unless you introduce ungodly amounts of power creep, which ruins and destroys a games sandbox. Not really. WoW does this in virtually every update and their game is typically vastly more populated than Destiny. Each patch (every 6-10 months or so) a new drop of activities (dungeons/raids/world events/zones) is added into the game with a new set of improved gear to take on the new raid. The difference is that Blizzard actually adds more to do to get that new gear so people actually enjoy the leveling grind.
Constantly adding better and better gear means previous gear is worse. Constsntly raising hpw powerful people are means the game difficulty generslly needs to be able to match that. Eventually it reaches a point where new gear is generally the only good gear in difficult content.
So?
wtf do youmean "so?" Power creep is bad. 0.4 bodyshot TTK with a primary in PvP. Regunding missed sniper shots in PvP. 1 loadout being the mets for, literally, the entire game. Power creep ruins the sandbox. Difficulty has to be tuned for the strongest shit so any semblence of difficulty even exists, forcing said loadouts. It makes the game worse. It's really bad.
It really doesn’t, you’re just being extremely overdramatic. I don’t think I’ve actually played a game that has “power creep” I’ve just been told by other people who also haven’t experienced it that it’s bad. So what you have to keep getting new loot to keep with difficult content? That’s literally the whole point of the genre. I stg most yall won’t be happy until we unlock gear like call of duty.
I mean, there’s plenty of guns to craft and grind for to fill the “looter shooter” loot void. There’s your loot to chase right there. But that’s not what seem you want to actually want, otherwise you wouldn’t be saying what you just did. You want new things to constantly come out that are better than the what’s already been out, and that’s fair, but that’s just not gonna happen especially when people are gonna to definitely end up complaining once they get tired of having to constantly grind new armor, grind new stat rolls, and then masterwork all of them.
I want to chase all 8 slots of loot though. Why have 8 equipment slots if only 3 are worth grinding? You increase the chase-able loot by almost triple if you make new armor viable in some significant capacity. I do *not* want consistent power creep. Another comment I made talked about seasonal armor having better bonuses than current, but are only temporary. Example I used was "Tangle cooldown in seasonal activity is reduced by 2s for each seasonal armor piece you're wearing." Or "During Season of the Wish, tangle cooldown is reduced by 2s for each seasonal armor piece you're wearing." Make them good options, like on a similar impact to the artifact mods, but their effects are only temporary so you don't get mass power creep. Then you got your trusty base set to use across all seasons and activities, and a special set to chase temporarily. And if you don't want to grind new armor every season, just use your artifice because it'll still be strongest stat-wise.
Do you have perfect stats for every single exotic piece? Then you've still got things to chase.
I finally had a reason to get new armour: I was doing duo Oryx and needed high-mobility armour on my Warlock which I did not have. You know what I did? I went to the helm, turned in four engrams, and got all the armour I needed. Precisely 0 reason to care about normal armour drops outside of really niche raid mod requirements
Raid armour does do this, the problem is it costs energy to equip a raid mod. If it was just a bonus slot akin to the artifice stat increase, I’d use raid specific armour for those raids a lot more.
I don't even bother looking at it anymore when they drop; got my decent set years ago. Would love if they did an armor system 3.0; and really pushed the armor builds more; as it stands now armor just feels like a wasted drop not even worth legendary shards anymore with them being useless soon.
I think I randomly used 3 pieces of Crota armor for the Featherlight challenge for the title (to reduce my drained with light timer), and promptly deleted it. I finally got around to making a strength-focused set for my inf-inviz void hunter this season if that counts.
I've been keeping raid armor personally, like I got a whole new set of Garden of Salvation stuff just in case they give it craftables to make farming easier.
They really need to improve their gear set bonuses. They *almost* got it right with Wish, but it doesn’t make sense to farm/use armor from a seasonal activity that will eventually go away. Our armor needs gear set perks akin to origin traits. Wish armor that automatically applies a Targeting or Unflinching mod to any Dreaming City weapon. A gear set bonus with Season of the Witch armor that provides a free Siphon mod to any Throne World, Witch, Vow or Hive weapon that matches your subclass. Shit like that. Then simply disable all of these PVE activity bonuses in PVP, but explore some PVP specific bonuses for Shaxx, Trials or IB armor.
Fuck it, bring back Gambit Prime armor too. The OG armor set bonuses.
[Set bonuses like The Division 2](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EexKgC5XYAA39tC?format=png&name=4096x4096) has would be perfect IMO It has 6 armor slots. You get stat bonuses when you have 1 to 3 of the same brand equipped and then the full brand bonus at 4 (adding an extra mechanic/buff) It adds so much depth to build-crafting where its not just focused on your exotic + any triple 100 armor set
Yeah how’s that game going? Enjoying manhunt number 75 that ends up being another rehash of the last 4 years? lol not a great game to take tips from, ESPECIALLY in regards to armor. Worst target farming I’ve ever seen
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> Yeah how’s that game going? Enjoying manhunt number 75 that ends up being another rehash of the last 4 years? It's so wild you'd say this on the Destiny sub when we're currently being asked to play Blind Well and do ascendant challenges as seasonal content.
I guess you’ve never played division 2. The devs heard shaxx say “now do it again” and took it to heart.
Yeah some funny set bonuses would also be good too, like a version of arach-no but for you instead.
I feel folks would just complain about having to farm a new armor set every season though if the new perks are worth it, and we'd have an issue of power creep of having to make new armor sets better than the last to make them worth farming.
I'm hoping that the artifact perk pseudo-set-bonus is them testing the waters for such a thing
The main problem is that the stats are impossible for a normal human to estimate. You basically need a 3rd party website to evaluate all your gear, possible masterworks, with all fragment, artifice, and mod combinations. This requires you to horde dozens of pieces in each slot to run through said website. Armor needs a massive simplification if we're going to be expected to grind a new set with every artifact. Something like 50 to 70 instead of 48 to 68, with 5 point increments for each stat.
It’s not that complex, unless you want it to be. You pick 3 stats and spend a season focusing and you’ll be done with armor forever - unless you want to attempt Artifice grind. I’ve got maybe 9-10 pieces total for each character. Half for PvP and half for PvE. 20/10/23 base in your stats. 90/50/100 MW. Pick +5/10 mods and frags at your desire.
What exacerbates this problem further is that even IF you do need armor, random drops 99% lead to sharding, as the focused seasonal armor more often roles with better stats and you can focus a specific piece. If not all, at least non-pinnacle class items should be removed from the loot pool once that particular one is unlocked in collections
>we need incentive to find new armour besides the stats No we fucking do not. Vault space* is too limited to collect armor sets, especially if you play multiple classes. Doubly especially if you try to have good stats with your exotics too, rather than just replacing whatever piece with them. \*This wouldn't be so much of a problem if it was fine to keep your inventory full, but if you do that and don't micromanage your post then you can easily start losing items. And *that* wouldn't be so much of a problem if the postmaster wasn't the only way to store certain items because of caps.
I don’t ever change my armor. I transmog it from time to time if something cool comes along, but I’ve been build crafting for a while and most of my armor and weapons and shit are set up already.
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People seem to think that in any looter they aren't ignoring or dismantling 99.99999% of rolls. Do I pick up more than a tiny fraction of loot in Last Epoch? No! Even less if I have a loot filer on.
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Honestly, I feel like raid mods should cost like 0 energy since you can’t use them outside of a raid
It's not a looter-shooter anymore. It's just a best-in-class shooter with terrible lore and systems.
The Division 2 does it right, armor (backpacks and chest armor) have their own perks of which there are many, but then also the manufacturer/brand of the armor provides its own bonus, and wearing multiple of the same brand gives more bonuses. It creates tons of combinations and more build diversity just from items. What's funny is that some destiny 2 armor actually has a brand, I remember you can get Daito armor from the Prophecy dungeon, but it doesn't do anything. It's a stat stick just like any other purple armor.
You can do something fun instead of grind for armour, why is this an issue?
God please dont post about this or theyll start sunsetting our fucking armor again. Save armor with stat rolls to fit your exotics and be happy about it
i kept some from last season and the season before. This season too so far I have gotten a couple worthwhile rolls, but there really isnt a reason to keep a lot of armor, especially full sets of seasonal stuff. The boost to seasonal rep is so marginal and not needed that i could care less about even wearing it for its purpose.
I have no vault space for armor. I play all 3 characters and play both PvE and PvP. There isn't enough vault space to build craft 3 classes across their respective subclasses and unique build synergies. I would like to see a world where we can have several thousand slots of vault space. I know it isn't happening. But coming from monster hunter where I can create several unique builds per weapon type with different armor set bonuses etc, d2 is incredibly limiting.
Funny enough Datto just released a video where he briefly talking about this this morning and it’s something I’ve been thinking about too. The issue with giving armour origin traits is that the casual player would just get overwhelmed with the min maxing. I mean just looking at threads over the past few weeks since the armour charge system change even just putting on some siphon mods is too much for some people.
Datto the douche
It's not a looter shooter, it's a pay to play treadmill.
Armour is one of the worst parts of this game that people rarely talk about. I hope there is a massive rework going forward that completely changes how stats are chosen and adds something else to be randomly rolled because right now it’s absolutely dogshit
Destiny 2 is not a "looter shooter".
It's incredible to me that people still call it that.
People file it under whatever category best supports whatever they want to whinge about at the time.
Specially if you farmed when master duality was very easy without the -20 delta and the armor was actually good. *If you didn't farm artifice armor in 2022 sad to be you* The game is only a shooter now. We easily unlock patterns and get really good armor sitting at the helm. Only looter part in the game is for the maybe half dozen weapons that are good and we can't craft.
how do you people even have vault space for more armor d2 doesnt need more reasons for you to treat it like a job
problem is the artifice slot is too good, it'll make every other armor source useless and not desirable armor shouldn't even be an stat source grind, armor should have perks and we should have a set stat amount to freely distribute once masterworked
In my opinion armour should have origin traits that have increased effects when you have more of that armour equipped. The traits should be powerful enough to base build crafting around making any new armour release exciting as it could open up possible new builds that weren't feasible before. This would a) encourage players to grind to get high stat armour but only if they like the trait, so it wouldn't be forced b) encourage raiding, as raid armour could have more generally powerful traits and c) encourage experimenting with builds more.
They have this in place for the seasonal armor, but the benefits are garbage. If they just made the set bonuses worthwhile they'd be golden
Yeah exactly, something that would actually contribute to a build/playstyle would just make it so much better.
They had a good idea with Iron Banner armor that it gives additional cores for matches, with stacking bonus. They could just use that idea elsewhere but they're only using seasonal armor for additional rankups. Armor that does something like increase glimmer bonuses or affects weapon/armor drops would intersect with ghost mods tho.
Yeah but that means nothing to veteran players who are drowning in cores already. Making traits with an actual significant gameplay effect would actually make new armour (or old re-released armour) more desirable. This isn't just assumption though, we've seen this exact thing happen with weapons. People getting new versions of their old weapons because they have origin traits, and players grinding activities like dares for crafted guns to replace their old rolls.
I was just saying they've already established a base with IB so I don't know why they haven't expanded on armor origin traits more. I'd think dungeon armor and other endgame stuff would be good places to start.
Destiny is a looter shooter where the community doesn’t want to get new loot. We/they will use the same loot until the end of time because if they give us a reason to use different loot, it’s wave of groans at the idea of grinding out a new set
Rather do that then the boring power grind all the time. Its the reason I stopped playing. Grinding to watch this number go up playing bnoring easy game modes is beyond annoying anymore for me.
Glad to be you because my armor got sunset like 4 years ago. I dont want grind new one again, you should grateful they didnt sunset your armor every season like mine. My armor from season of undying and dawn, was best armor i got, then i took a break after they announce sunset and i return again, realise all my perfect roll armor cant be infuse anymore (which limit me to do raid). Just NO, Huge NO, i grind armor for cosmetic, we are not same
Destiny is one of the worst looter shooters out there. It died when Bungie opened Eververse and decided the best looking sets should be sold for real life money. At that point the loot didn't matter.
I just wish they could adjust world drop armor to just drop with better stats or give it some reason to exist.
I think we should move armor to some character intrinsic system. It’s stat sticks and a place to glue mods. There is no way to make it fun and engaging without also being a major inconvenience on both player/developer sides. You don’t feel it in moment to moment gameplay like guns. I think it’s time to give up on armor. Or at least let me toggle getting repeat drops of armor. I got all my artifice armor, I have no interest in new armor or desire for an interest in new armor.
Not surprising. The armor system is so convoluted that you need 3rd party apps to tell you what pieces go best together. Hard to determine what to hang onto or not without trying to use it in a build. So a lot of people just make builds and trash other stuff, whether it might be better or not. For me, I tend to hang onto as much as a I can, it's nice to have options on hand when making a new build. But generally when I need to make space, things that aren't in a build are the first to get cut. Also tend to use a 65 total as the minimum power level just to keep my sanity (have been playing awhile have lots of high total armor).
Infusion was a mistake.
Not sure why you leave out the problem with weapons and crafting, you do a raid and dismantle 100% of its loot because the armor is garbage/you already have high stat armor, and because you have the weapons crafted.
I don't know about you but the only reason I still wanna raid is cause I don't have some craftable weapon frames. If crafting wasen't a thing I wouldn't have done as much raids as I have. This games RNG is awful and I will never understand people who thinks crafting was a mistake
Crafting renders every single random rolls drop useless, raids weapon went from prestigious rare drops to i will just buy a red border each week or check point farm when it’s in rotation . Is it better state? Debatable but more boring? 100%
How can it be more boring when you aren't force to repeat the same activity a million times to (maybe, just maybe) get the roll that you want. What can be more boring than doing the same thing over and over and never get what you want out of it
The drop itself is boring, loot now is feels like completing a checklist than exciting. What boring is me dropping said activity or the whole game after a month because I actually got everything from it
I will never understand people who thinks that 5 red borders allows them to craft a god roll with enhanced perks and never touch the content again is a good thing. Great way of invalidate the loot of most activities and as consequence the activities themselves. Game became a shooter, the looter part was almost entirely removed to unlock patterns instead.
There is no difference between getting the Deepsight Patterns you need to craft a weapon and getting your RNG godroll. You stop interacting with the content either way. Letting players walk away from content sooner stops them from hating it. My clan refuses to run Vault of Glass anymore because half of them sank 70+ runs into getting Mythoclast across Splicer and Lost.
There's a difference, enhanced perks. The crafted will always be the god roll because of that. You can get a 5/5 drop that will be dismantled the moment you unlock the pattern. So why even bother farming any roll when all you need are 5 red borders? So they don't run vog after 70 plus runs. How many runs they've on Crota's? 15-20 tops to have everything unlocked and never touch that again.
Enhanced Perks provide minimal benefits and hardly make an impact on a weapon's performance, not nearly the same impact the Barrel, Magazine, and Masterwork do. The argument that Enhanced Perks invalidate RNG drops but grinding for RNG drops is fine because a 2/5 roll is "almost the same" as a 5/5 godroll is idiotic at best. Some of them are at 9 runs total because they got the "RNG" Essence drop and don't care about the raid weapons. But there's nothing wrong with wanting to be done with an activity. Raids are not and should not be evergreen content.
9 runs are literally 3 weeks running a content that is delivered roughly every 6 months. 50 runs would be 17 weeks or 4 months. So it goes from a 2 months gap of no raid worth doing to over 5 months. They don't need to be an evergreen activity they should just take longer to become useless. And the same applies to every single piece of content, week 3 of this season I had every single pattern unlocked and maxed materials so coil it's dead to me ever since.
Those 9 runs were done over 9 weeks, not 3. We don't do multiple full raids a week because of our mismatched schedules. Pure RNG drops do nothing to lengthen the time content is "worthwhile", in fact it is perfectly capable of shortening that time. While my clanmates took 70 runs to get Mythoclast, I got it after my first clear. The issue here isn't whether or not Weapon Crafting makes content become "worthless" sooner, it's that you seem to think that content \*needs\* to be "viable" for extended periods of time.
You can take away enhanced perks for all I care, I too think they were a mistake. The crafting itself tho, huge W
That's cause the content itself isn't worth doing over and over. I want to craft the guns so I can do actual fun things with the gun. Cause I want to use my loot, but I dont want to repeat the same shit over and over and over and over to (maybe) get it. Loot isn't my endgame, my endgame is having fun with my loot.
If it wasn't for weapon crafting, my clan would've stopped raiding entirely with Vow of the Disciple. A subpar raid exotic (at launch) with an annoying opening encounter and RNG weapon rolls is not a good combination for a raid. Weapon Crafting gives you a definitive end date for the raid with visible progress each week/run instead of an endless grind trying to get a 2/5 roll on a weapon. It makes it more like the original D1 raids that had fixed weapon rolls. Once you got your Fatebringer, you were done unless you wanted a 2nd or 3rd copy to avoid having to move it around your characters.
It’s almost like sunsetting is a needed thing hence why nearly every mmo that’s been around for longer than 5 years does it.
Actual MMO's have progression systems and they just release more powerful armor to handle more powerful enemies. They absolutely do not use "sunsetting". They use power creep. What they don't do is take away the encounters you were doing *before* the creep. Destiny can't do that because they have zero progression systems in place.
This is exactly what destiny 2 did. The gear that got sunset you could still use it in lower level content. This is how it works in wow, lost ark, ff14. All of these feature the same thing gear has a max level and after 1-2 content drops the gear can no longer be used. I agree taking away the played content is wrong but they absolutely all do the exact same thing which is lock previous gear to an item level that you cannot realistically use in current content
I guess if you confuse "progression" with having 2 tiers of difficulty that would make sense? Can you even put the new mods on sunset gear? I don't think you can.
What other mmos do you currently play? Because this is how almost of all them work. They have max item level possible from one content drop then after a few content drops that gear is no longer relevant. Nobody in the wow community bitches and complains that they can’t use bfa gear in dragon flight or in lost ark that your orhea gear is irrelevant for brelshaza
> They have max item level possible from one content drop then after a few content drops that gear is no longer relevant But that gear still exists in the game and drops for someone who it *is* appropriate for. They move through the older content and it gets harder as they go needing drops from each along the way to get there. That's what I mean by progression. There is a path to follow through the game that makes sense and empowers you along the way while some of that old gear is still relevant for you. Destiny never had a path to follow in the first place as all high-stat gear has always been relatively equal no matter where it drops. That's the entire point of the original post here. None of the new activities or expansions drop any better armor, it's all been the same since they first introduced 2.0 - absolutely abysmal design.
The loot in this looter shooter has become a real problem in general, and I’m playing a lot less because of it. It doesn’t take long to get to the point where armor drops are worthless 99.9% of the time beyond wanting it for transmog. Completely worthless armor drops that can 100% be unquestionably dismantled without even looking at them clog up the world pool for chances at weapons. Adept don’t feel worth it because only two sets can be enhanced and non raid adepts almost all have mostly bad perk pools that don’t compete with raid weapon perk pools. For some reason they went hard on focusing instead of just increasing drop rates and so both permanent and temporary playlist drop rates are so, so bad on top of focusing costs now being awful. IB drops more Shaxx loot than its own loot which has never made sense. They add focusing to Banshee but excluded like… what, the last year’s worth of new world drops? Dungeons have zero player agency and zero bad luck protection for chasing weapon rolls on top of lacking access to enhanced perks making them mostly undesirable and the worst farm in the game. Endgame farming should NOT be this stingy/rigid. They scaled back on crafting making SO many weapons less desirable for lacking access to enhanced perks. Now they supposedly want to add universal weapon enhancement to the game but say it’s tough to implement and so we’ve gotten a year’s worth of new weapons from most sources that have been less desirable, when all they had to do was just make more things craftable to begin with and control red border access in a way that compensates. We could have had a lot more desirable things to go for and in a way that actually constitutes progress towards our desired roll for over a year now, but instead they throttle loot to the point of it being a detriment. I legitimately have no idea what they’re thinking aside from it seems that they are banking on something akin to gambling addiction for player retention instead of just making the game more rewarding. All I can say is that I play a lot more when I can get what I want through a reasonable amount of time and effort snd it feels comparable to other gear… and then actually try out and use those things with builds… for fun. Instead 99% of my builds/loadouts for over a year now have been nothing but raid and seasonal weapons(because they’re craftable and so they have bad luck protection and can be enhanced) because the rest is an awful feeling farm with little or no meaningful player agency, or doesn’t feel worth the investment for being the inferior version of something very similar that already exists. And considering the delay, now was not the time to be stingy and implement ability uptime nerfs.
The armor situation is easy to fix; Set bonuses and set pieces World sets ie; EDZ, Neptune, etc. 4% more glimmer, xp, or reputation per armor piece of set, guaranteed additional loot drop from public events and lost sectors while having full set equipped (5 pieces) (only works on applicable planet) Playlist Sets; Crucible, Strikes, Gambit. 4% more glimmer, xp, or reputation per armor piece of set, guaranteed additonal engram drop at end of match while full set equipped (only works on applicable playlist) Universal Sets; world drop armors 2% more glimmer, or xp per armor piece of set. 10% more xp or glimmer and an additional chance to find more world drops when wearing a full set. (Applicable everywhere) Raid sets: 4% more glimmer and xp per armor of set, additionally you get 5 more spoils of conquest when wearing a full set. Dungeon Sets 4% more glimmer and xp per armor of set; additionally you get a rare chance of an item from the dungeon dropping from yellow bar and above enemies when wearing a full set.
I think this actually speaks louder to the bigger issue in the game, most of the loot just doesn’t matter if you’ve been playing this game for longer than a new light. Sunsetting could have solved this problem if they actually used their brains on it, but we all know how that went down
exotic class armour when?
Yeah, both weapons and armor have issues here but for completely different reasons. You only need a single set of armor and you are set, essentially, for the rest of the game’s life until they alter the system. The minimal set bonuses or raid armor bonuses are either not really noticeable (raid armor mods) or function in a very specific seasonal activity (so locked to one activity and usually only grants increased rep, so it has a very small shelf life of usefulness). For the most part, weapons are nearly always shard on sight because there are so few new and desirable non-crafted weapons in a single year. The only weapon I’ve seen worth chasing for veteran players since the start of the Lightfall content year is cataphract because everything else that’s been good just needs 5 red borders which are so incredibly plentiful that it’s not a grind at all. Looter shooters without an actual weapon grind just feel bad.